JontheEchidnaideally you'd create a desktop-neutral system for doing such things00:00
JontheEchidnabut that seems out of scope for a papercut00:00
=== asac_ is now known as asac
seeleok that's all i needed to know00:06
macoits fixed in 9.10 already00:11
macofirst time i used amarok after installing 2 days ago, i got a popup from it offering to install mp3, dvd codecs, video codecs, and flash00:11
macooooh you mean for amarok-in-gnome?00:11
apacheloggerjust make kdelibs depend on update-notifier-kde :P00:18
JontheEchidnamaco: yes, amarok-in-gnome00:27
JontheEchidnaamarok-in-kde has been working since 9.04 ;-)00:27
macoi dont recall that popup, but probably already had codecs by the time i installed kde00:28
seelemaco: re: Powerdevil: Committed in 99682700:33
seeledoes tkampeter work for canonical now instead of LF? he always shows up in the desktop meeting minutes00:40
ScottKseele: Both Kaffeine and Dragonplayer suggest installing codecs and give you a one click install for them.01:21
ScottKseele: I don't think so, but I'm not certain.01:22
a|wenScottK / JontheEchidna: might be worth checking the conversation in #debian-qt-kde around an hour ago about kde file dialog not being used in qt-apps; just checked in karmic, we are affected too ... sorry for just throwing it at you, but I'm leaving for 10 days in two hours; and you were the last relevant people speaking in here02:16
JontheEchidnasupposedly the oxygen theme is now linking against something that should do this now in KDE 4.302:17
JontheEchidnaa quick look at arora suggests otherwise, though :/02:18
ryanakcaDoes anybody have any last changes they want made to the wiki theme before I start prodding the sysadmins?02:18
a|wenJontheEchidna: exactly... there is some linking error02:19
JontheEchidnaan error with the packages or with upstream?02:19
a|wenupstream it seems02:20
ryanakca'LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libkio.so.5 arora' makes it work though apperently...02:21
ryanakca20:20:44 < pinotree> either patch kdebase-runtime/kstyles/oxygen/CMakeLists.txt to add that flag for the oxygen target, or disable -as-needed for kdebase-runtime02:21
JontheEchidnathat'd do it02:21
* JontheEchidna wonders how far is too far when trying to link against as few things as possible02:22
JontheEchidnawow, my kdepim-runtime package was more elaborate than debian's: http://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/kdepim-runtime02:25
JontheEchidnanow that debian has 4.3, we can go on one last mega-merge from karmic (and keep an eye on later debian changes, of course)02:26
* a|wen was thinking the same thing a bit earlier02:27
ryanakcaJontheEchidna: more elaborate, is that a good or a bad thing?02:29
a|wenmore ellaborate? ... they are pretty equal on that point i would say :P02:30
ryanakca(If it's better, we should try getting the parts they don't have into their packages...)02:31
a|wenat least the changelog is02:32
JontheEchidnaryanakca: I separated out the libs and binaries out into their own packages02:33
JontheEchidnatheirs seems to be a monolithic package02:33
a|wenoh ... that should go to debian02:35
seelehave the quassel devs officially received our IRC wishlist for karmic? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKarmicIrc02:36
a|wenJontheEchidna: at least we should get to terms with debian about it... though the maintainer of the package is gone for the next 10 days as well02:38
* JontheEchidna was gone for 10 days 12 days ago02:39
* a|wen is planning to say hi to the maintainer in the train tomorrow morning02:39
* ryanakca is guessing JontheEchidna could just send an email to the debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org list if he wanted to get it done sooner...02:42
* JontheEchidna puts it on the todo list for tomorrow, is still pretty tired from his "10 days"02:43
ScottKseele: They (Quassel devs) did,02:44
ScottKJontheEchidna: Or I could shove it i their svn.02:44
a|wenJontheEchidna: you should be the opposite of tired from 10 days vacation :P02:44
JontheEchidnaa|wen: visiting family ain't exactly vacation :P02:45
JontheEchidnawell, sorta02:45
JontheEchidnabut still tiring02:45
JontheEchidnaI need a vacation [/ahnald]02:45
seeleScottK: ok, just checking02:46
a|wenhe ... i'm most likely not coming back refreshed either after my 10 days02:46
seeleis the kde4 port of konversation available for jaunty or just karmic?02:46
JontheEchidnaseele: a somewhat-recent alpha is available in regular jaunty-backports02:46
JontheEchidna(2 alphas behind)02:47
seelealpha? is it going to be released by karmic or do we plan on shipping a beta if we dont go with quassel?02:47
JontheEchidnait's already quite good02:47
* seele thinks we need to slow down and stop shipping incomplete software for once02:47
JontheEchidnaalpha in name only02:47
* seele sighs02:47
seelei wont even bring up arora again02:47
seeleregardless of what i say i'm out voted02:48
JontheEchidnaarora sucks at the moment02:48
ScottKseele: I've now tried arora and I don't get it.02:48
seeleScottK: where were you a few weeks ago when i needed backup! hehe02:48
JontheEchidnabut believe me, you definitely wouldn't even know that konvi is in alpha right now02:49
* ScottK is seriously considering Firefox for KNE.02:49
ScottKWe can afford the ISO size for the depends there.02:49
ScottKIf Qt/KDE want us to ship a browser that uses their tools, then then can produce one that's as good or better IMO.02:50
seelei dont even want to hear about replacing firefox with something else until after 4.4 and we see what the khtml guys get done02:50
ryanakcaScottK: iirc, (at least on Jaunty), pulling FF without all the recommends was only 1086kB...02:50
ScottKI think Konqueror in 4.3 is better than Arora ATM.02:50
seelewe also need to get printing done! ARGH02:50
* seele pokes Riddell with a 1000 sticks02:50
a|wenespecially after firefox actually started looking nice in jaunty02:50
* JontheEchidna is having Hobbsee flashbacks02:51
* ryanakca grins02:51
seelekpackagekit needs love too.. maybe switching from adept2 was a bad idea02:51
* seele head desks02:51
a|wenkonqueror in 4.2 is better than arora02:51
JontheEchidnaaside from the part where adept2 doesn't work at all in kde402:51
seelewell kpackagekit isnt perfect either and you can't install stuff like java because of the agreement02:52
a|wenseele: you should convince dantti from debian-qt-kde to come join us here02:52
JontheEchidnaAdept 3 is fine imo, except that you have to be a bit intelligent with your searches to get what you want02:52
JontheEchidnaAdept 3 is a solid piece of software02:52
ScottKIt suffers, like kpackagekit, from a poor security design that makes it unsuitable IMO.02:53
a|wenseele: looks like that is the guy actually working on some of the needed improvements in kpackagekit, polkitkde etc.02:53
ScottKIt appears we have a shot at getting cryptographich verification in Karmic with kpackagekit.02:53
ScottKIt still sucks, but at least it won't be actively dangerous.02:54
seeleScottK: is that the installing unsigned packages without notification issue?02:54
seelei'd like to do more reviewing on the UI, specifically the icons and how to handle installed, to-be-installed, and not-installed packages in the list02:55
macocan we pleeease do testing on that?02:58
macoseele, wait you can do agreement stuff with packagekit. at least according to the packagekit website, packages can be flagged as requiring a eula02:59
maco(that = the icons to use for update/install/remove)03:00
seelei dont think i'll have time to do a usability test before karmic03:01
seelei probably wont have time to do any usability testing until next spring, unfortunately03:01
seelei can't even seem to pull together a kde 4.3 party this time around03:01
* ScottK waves to dantti.03:15
danttiScottK: hmm do you think here is better?03:15
* dantti waves back03:16
ScottKWell dunno for sure.03:16
ScottKThere are others here that care about kpackagekit getting better.03:16
a|wenhi dantti, and welcome03:16
* ScottK waves to seele.03:16
* seele waves03:16
seeleoh, dantti is the packagekit maintainer?03:16
* vorian bows to seele 03:16
voriancongrats on the e.V03:17
vorianand award03:17
seelevorian: thanks. e.V. will be lots of work i'm afraid :)03:17
danttiwell what i basically needs now is for richard's approval on one of the problems..03:17
ScottKvorian: Careful.  Se may get a big head and not talk to us peons any more.03:17
vorianseele: you'll be awesome, don't worry about the work03:17
seeleScottK: lol yeah right. youre my only friends!03:17
danttiseele: not packagekit maintainer, I'm the author of kpackagekit, and aptcc a new backend for apt written in c++03:18
seeledantti: ooh, even better. would you be the person to ping if i do a UI review with recommendations?03:18
ScottKdantti: I heard a vague mention of if we get packagekit 0.5 in we can reject installatio of unsigned packages and such.03:18
danttiseele: yup03:18
ScottKDo you know about that and what we need to support for it?03:19
danttiScottK: well atpcc simply rejects all unsiged packages, but with packagekit 0.5 it will be able to install it..03:19
danttibut i didn't code that yet.. since i'm working on other more important things right now..03:20
seeledantti: cool, i'll keep that in mind03:20
ScottKdantti: So let me see if I understand it ... aptcc is an alternate packagekit backend for apt?03:20
vorianbug 389658 can be a meeting topic, yes?03:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 389658 in hundredpapercuts "KDE menu button should have a Kubuntu Logo" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38965803:20
danttilike making polkit1 from trunk run on debian :P so i can make polkit-qt103:20
seeleryanakca: you know, it would be nice if you could set a cookie for if edit is on or off. it is annoying to have to show the bar every time i refresh or navigate to a new page03:21
danttiScottK: yes, it's a new backend03:21
danttiScottK: afaik it's already packaged..03:21
danttifor kubuntu of course..03:22
* ScottK just notice the lack of rmadison on his freshly installed netbook ....03:22
ScottKHard to look stuff up ...03:22
danttiit already brings various benefits such as translation of package details.. and speed which for me is damn important03:22
ScottKI understood policy kit integrationin KDE is a 4.4 thing.03:23
danttino, it's already in 4.303:23
ScottKOK.  Good.03:24
dantti4.4 is polkit1 thing03:24
ScottKWhich is the thing you need?03:24
danttiand packagekit depends on polkit1 so, i have to finish polkit-qt1, fix packagekit-qt to use it03:24
danttiScottK: yep :P i think polkit-qt1 is one of the most important things while Richard waits for comments on my last email to the list..03:25
ScottKSo I see our packagekit currently depens on packagekit-backend-apt03:26
ScottKThat's the part that aptcc replaces?03:26
danttiyep probably...03:27
ScottKCan packagekit use either or does it have to be changed for aptcc?03:27
danttiaptcc does everything py apt  does exept install/remove/update since i'll only do that when the lower steps are ready..03:27
danttiScottK: packagekit.cond, backend=aptcc03:28
ScottKOK.  Cool.03:28
ScottKThat means if we want to be different than Ubuntu we can do it.03:28
danttiScottK: yep.. actually both can be installed..03:28
danttiyou just need to switch the conf file..03:29
ScottKdantti: We are currently about 6 weeks from feature freeze.  What do you think it's realistic to think of achieving in that time to make the kpackagekit experience better for our users this time around?03:31
danttiScottK: no... 6 weeks is too short03:31
danttipolkit1 is not even properly released imo03:32
ScottKDoes 10 weeks help any?03:32
ScottKThat's our beta freeze03:32
ScottKI think kpackagekit ended up being our second least favorite feature for Jaunty so whatever we can do between now and then to make things better would be important.03:33
danttiwell I'm really not sure, since there are various problems... polkit1, polkit-qt1, packagekit-qt, aptcc (which might be the longest) and finally kpackagekit..03:33
ScottKWell one piece of good news as far as getting stuff into our archive is that two of the Kubuntu devs are also archive admins (our equivalent of ftp-master) so we can get stuff through New as fast as we need to.03:34
danttiall those things takes a good amount of time and thinking, since aptcc needs approval and code.. :P03:34
danttiScottK: well that's good but I still think the time is too short.. and I'm a pretty busy guy btw.. :P03:35
ScottKOf course.03:36
danttithis week my wife is traveling so i have a bit more time ;)03:36
ScottKeven if stuff only gets radically better for the next release, that's fine.03:36
ScottKI understand.  My wife is out of town today too.03:36
ScottKI would like to get some idea what we can do to make stuff better this cycle.03:37
danttiwell i'm trying my best, i'm counting the days to see that in debian but unfutunatly it's not that easy.. richard is very flexible in some changes but not all of them, and it's been about 2 months i'm poking him with new ideas of how to fix our apt problems..03:38
macoseele, what you said about no time for testing. on the icon thing, what about like how pinheito (er...probably getting the nick wrong) had for k3b? the website where you choose which icon is your first reaction to a term03:39
ScottKmaco: t/r03:39
danttiScottK: well if you can get coders, polkit-qt1 would be the first shot, and thankfully it's coinstallable with polkit-qt003:39
ScottKmaco: pinheiro03:40
seelemaco: those icons are tested out of context of workflows.. being involved in a task and having a specific mindset could/would effect how an icon is interpreted03:40
seelemaco: but that doesnt mean we can just design something better and review it internally, we just wont get as strong of a validation03:40
macofair enough03:41
ScottKdantti: Well coders is a problem of course.  I think Tonio is perhaps interested, but he's not been around much recently (changing jobs).03:41
macowhat languages?03:41
macois there any C?03:41
ScottKdantti: ^^03:41
macothat's the only language i can be productive in ATM03:42
seeleScottK: i didnt know Tonio was changing jobs. Is he still in Paris or moving?03:42
danttiScottK: i see, another thing todo is add docs to kpackagekit, i didn't had time to do that yet... (as it's in playground there's no need yet)03:42
danttimaco: c++ to be precise..03:42
danttimaco: polkit1 is C  + glib but polkit-qt1 is c++03:43
macoi can do C/glib stuff....03:44
macowould also be fine with documentation03:44
danttiit's not a hard work... there's already a fedora dude with a working patch but i can't test it since i could not get polkit1 to run here on debian nor Dario on arch03:44
maco(was a gnome user. learned c/glib...soon as i got to be kinda proficient, switched to kde)03:44
danttimaco: that's nice.. since polkit-gnome is gtk, and we need to undertand that piece of .. , It gave me enough headches to do polkit-qt/kde003:45
danttiat least i can see it working now :D03:45
macoi have yet to see well-commented code come out of gnome03:46
ScottKdantti: We can also use our PPA infrastructure to build a separate repo to test all these pieces out together before they are ready for the archive.03:47
danttimaco: you need to see a well commented code to unsderstand? (sorry not an english speaker :P )03:47
ScottKWell commented code always helps.03:48
macodantti, ive learned to deal. they at least have a useful convention for function names. but by "not well commented" please understand that i mean the only comment youre likely to see is "this code is released under the gplv2"03:48
macooccasionally a "fixme" will show up03:49
danttiwell i don't remember the code very much but there was good comments i think.. the biggest problem was C + glb03:50
danttithat thing just suck too much..03:50
macocallbacks are like slots03:50
maco(assuming ive had slots explained properly)03:50
danttiyou need to keep all that think in you mind so you don't get lost....03:50
maco:sp and :vsp :)03:50
danttithey are like slots but in a different (ugly) way imo..03:51
seeleis the plasma widget picker the same in 4.3? dont remember if they changed it for 4.3 or if it is planed for 4.403:52
danttiand there are too many parts that 'lock' the code, so sometimes we need local event loops..03:52
macooh pretty03:52
ScottKseele: It's the same (or very close)03:53
danttiok i have to sleep now..03:56
* a|wen waves to everyone ... see you again in 10 days03:57
danttiyou you guys can help i suggest start by kpackagekit docs and polkit-qt/kde 1.003:57
dantti*if you...03:57
macoare the docs started at all and need to be fleshed out, or this a from-scratch?03:58
macoi dont know kde processes yet, but do y'all use docbook?03:58
ScottKdoxygen I think.03:59
ScottKnixternal is Mr. Documentation.03:59
danttimaco: it's a from scratch, i've made the polkit-kde ones, i think it's easy enough to get the idea..03:59
danttii didn't started before because of time and the ui was changing and will change a bit, but just the screen shots that will probably be different..04:00
macook. is ScottK right about doxygen?04:00
macoi thought kdm's docs were in docbook...04:00
ScottKI may be thinking KDE3.04:01
danttii still want a better but good looking way to select packages, i have some ideas in mind but TIME attacks again :P04:01
danttino no, i would said he was right but i confused it here...04:01
danttidoxygem are for code docs..04:01
danttidocbook for app docs04:01
macoah ok04:02
danttipackagekit-qt uses doxygem..04:02
maconight night04:10
nixternalmaco: docbook for manuals and doxygen for api04:12
kwwiiwow, just installed karmic, looking nice ;)09:24
Riddellkwwii: yay10:17
jussi01ooh, Riddell is back! :D10:19
Riddellhome at last10:19
jussi01wb Riddell10:19
Riddellthanks, nice to be back10:19
Riddelleven without my laptop power cable10:19
jussi01Riddell: when is the next meeting? / link me the agenda maybe?10:20
Riddellwe don't have one planned10:20
jussi01Riddell: hrm, you need to rectify that.. :)10:21
Riddellwhat needs meeting about?10:21
* jussi01 wants kubuntu membership...10:22
Riddelloh aye10:22
jussi01So I can actually vote in stuff where my ubuntu membership doesnt suffice10:22
Riddellyou can do that doodle.com thing if you want to kick it off10:22
jussi01yeah, Might do that, does it just go to the devel list or?10:23
seeleRiddell: yay you're back!10:31
seaLnehmm didn't you used to be able to in lp set a bug status back to unconfirmed?10:49
seaLneor is there another appropriate for "working again for me anyone else care to comment" status10:50
ryanakcaRiddell: Welcome back. Any last things you wanted done to the wiki theme (currently http://wiki.ryanak.ca/kubuntu/ ) before I start prodding sysadmins?11:10
seaLneryanakca: that looks nice and clean11:19
MamarokQuote: "mobi-sheep> Props to KDE developers.  I now think all Ubuntu moms should use KDE instead of Gnome.  Much cleaner and easier on transition from Window-alike experience. :o11:28
Mamarokfrom a Gnome user in #kubuntu...11:28
Tm_TMamarok: aye, always happy to hear we are doing something right11:29
Mamarokwell, I told im "not only for moms" :)11:29
Riddellryanakca: wiki theme looks great to me11:32
=== mgraesslin_ is now known as mgraesslin
_SimeRiddell: PyQt 4.5.2 is out and needs packaging / updating.12:14
e-jatwhen will this bug 334122 get decide?12:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 334122 in plasma-widget-network-manager "kubuntu jaunty plasmoid-network-manager can't use mobile broadband" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33412212:26
Riddell_Sime: gotcha12:30
e-jatRiddell: any comment for that bug12:33
Riddelle-jat: it's not implemented in the network manager plasmoid12:37
Riddellso no, it won't work I'm afraid12:37
e-jat:( its mean plasmoid wont work with 3g usb modem ?12:39
e-jatso need to use wvdial manually in kde ;(12:39
Riddellor nm-applet12:41
ghostcubebtw what is this bug that causes x to crash in the rc candidate packages12:41
e-jatRiddell: any other alternative ? or kde people working on it ..12:43
Riddellghostcube: KDM upgrade12:47
ghostcubeah ok so just installing on tty ..12:48
ghostcubeis rc2 more useful than rc112:48
Riddell4.3 has gained an impressive array of lanaguages13:07
RiddellI wonder where Chhattisgarhi is from13:07
MamarokRiddell: India?13:09
Riddellat last, I can use KDE in Luxembourgish!13:11
ryanakcaQuintasan: Were you the one who made the move to Kate's vim mode and wished that vim had tabs?13:27
Quintasanryanakca: looks like13:28
ryanakcaQuintasan: in vim, :tabnew blah, :tabclose, :tabprev, :tabnext, and 'gt' to switch between tabs quickly :)13:29
Riddelldpm: ping13:31
Riddelldpm: I'm going to upload new KDE langpacks today, is launchpad setup for all these new languages?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~jriddell/tmp/NEW13:31
ScottKRiddell: Do you know if the 3G stuff is planned for NM widget anytime soon?13:32
dpmRiddell: are they for Karmic?13:32
Riddelldpm: yes13:33
RiddellScottK: sometime after the basic work I think13:33
ScottKRight.   That's probably sensible.  3G stuff is important for netbook though...13:33
dpmRiddell: I'm checking13:35
jussi01ScottK: I really hope it gets done for karmic. if we can have similar to the gnome setup, with the mobiledb included that would be awesome13:44
Riddellwhat's mobiledb?13:51
ScottKIIRC it's a list of mobile providers so you can automagically connect via 3g since all the particulars for your provider are already in the system.13:54
ScottKAny packaging ninjas looking for work, I'd like to get http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/base/plasma/netbook/ into a PPA as soon as we can ....13:57
dpmRiddell: I've double-checked it with danilo: it should be ok to import all new languages into LP. Just a few extra notes -> http://pastebin.com/m63c9a5514:07
JontheEchidnaScottK: did we need some kdelibs modifications for the netbook stuff?14:19
ScottKJontheEchidna: Not sure.14:19
jussi01!info mobile-broadband-provider-info | Riddell14:19
ubottuRiddell: mobile-broadband-provider-info (source: mobile-broadband-provider-info): database of mobile broadband service providers. In component main, is extra. Version 20090309-0ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 18 kB, installed size 132 kB14:19
ScottKJontheEchidna: We can ask MoRpHeUs in #kubuntu-netbooks.14:19
=== agateau_ is now known as agateau
QuintasanScottK: How I should name the package?14:20
ScottKQuintasan: --> #kubuntu-netbook14:21
ScottKQuintasan: MoRpHeUs is one of the upstream developers for plasma-netbook.14:23
* Quintasan nods14:23
seelewhy are my kernel updates always blocked in kpackagekit?14:28
seeleevery single time.. *grrr*14:29
jussi01seele: Ive wondered that also. maybe they need a dist upgrade, and not just an upgrade like kpackagekit does? (speculation on a few points there... but yeah)14:32
e-jatjussi01: i think need to dist upgrade ...14:33
seeleapt-get upgrade doesnt work14:35
seelei have to apt-get install linux-image-generic and -headers by hand14:35
seeleer, individually14:36
ScottKseele: apt-get dist-upgrade14:39
ScottKThis is yet another reason kpackagekit is totally unsuitable.14:40
seeleas opposed to what? broken adept2?14:43
ScottKseele: Adept 2 was the KDE3 one.  Adept 3 was incomplete, but substantially less so than KPackageKit.14:43
* seele throws up her arms14:44
ScottKseele: The problem is kpackagekit was designed for rpm and just doesn't have concepts for many important Debian package management functions.14:44
seelehow was i suppsoed to know kpackagekit was incomplete? that's what technical people are for!14:44
jjessei never use kpackagekit, i always use apt14:45
* ScottK wasn't at that UDS ....14:45
ScottKseele: We've crossed the bridge now, so we need to push on.14:45
* seele wants to go back to bed14:45
ryanakcaRiddell: How does the kubuntunew theme on http://wiki.kubuntu.org look ? You may need to clear your cache to get the most recent version.14:53
ryanakca(in other words, lamont and I are wondering if we can set it as the default theme)14:54
Riddellryanakca: looks good to me15:00
ryanakcaRiddell: OK15:00
e-jatryanakca: gj to the kubuntu wiki team15:19
wincidehi, hola, do someone know any debugger instead of gdb ??? i cannot trace some core files ...15:29
nhandlerryanakca: It might just be me, but it looks like you have a little overlap with the bar at the top and the search buttons. Could we maybe leave a bigger gap at the top of the page (above the white content section) so that the bar has room?15:30
ulysses__i've installed kubuntu from the daily iso, and there isn't windows in the grub, it's a bug?15:33
ScottKRiddell: Currently there is a note in the Kubuntu desktop seed that kleopatra  "doesn't currently install".  It does and works very good (a real improvement from KDE3 kleopatra).  I think it would be good to provide this as it also does general gpg key management stuff very well now.15:51
Riddellgo for it ScottK15:54
ScottKOK.  Doing.15:54
javi_ryanakca: can you try to refocus a bit the kubuntu logo? it seems a little blurry to me16:05
Riddellit's always been blurry has that version16:05
javi_ah, didn't knew :D16:06
kwwiiif it is from the usplash or the old kdm it has a blur around it in the svg ;)16:09
ScottKRiddell: Seeds changed so kleopatra ought to show up on component mismatches.16:10
javi_ryanakca: in firefox 3.0.11 #showbar is moved down when #editbar is shown16:10
javi_ryanakca: and there is a lot of empty space on top where you may consider to add a navigation menu like kubuntu's main page16:13
javi_besides that, the theme is pretty cool16:14
javi_oh and the favicon is missing :D16:15
kwwiihrm, has anyone else had problems with network in karmic?16:16
kwwiiahhh, yes...the bugs say they have16:17
rgreeningkwwii: hey.16:25
rgreeningkwwii: any luck in the usb-creator-kde icon?16:25
kwwiirgreening: oops, forgot all about it to be honest16:25
rgreeningare we going to do a kmenu icon?16:26
kwwiiI'll try to finish it up asap, although I am in london atm ...the files are on my computer at home16:26
kwwiiwell, that is a good question16:26
* rgreening likes the idea16:26
kwwiiit seems that upstream wants distros to brand their kde16:26
kwwiiquite a few people like the idea...but historically we did not brand that icon for a reason :p16:26
rgreeningkwwii: right click the kmenu. theres a setting to change the icon.16:27
rgreeningso, it seems like upspream has it ready for branding.16:27
ScottKkwwii: Well I kind of agree, but if we can get a Kubuntuized one that still carries the upstream flavor, I think it's OK.16:27
Riddellupstream has the label inside the k-menu for distros to brand, they don't paticuarly want distros to brand the k-menu icon itself16:27
rgreeningso, I'm ok with it. Riddell?16:27
rgreeningRiddell: then why add the option to change the kmenu icon16:28
RiddellKDE likes options16:28
rgreeningI think they don't mind changing the icon16:28
rgreeningthey want it to be distinct though, not the kde gears.16:28
rgreeningother than that, it would seem ok...16:28
* rgreening thinks, if you don't want someone to change something, you don't add an option to do so.16:29
kwwiiI suggest we just make it all green16:29
kwwiioh wait, that color is taken16:30
rgreeningI big kiwii16:30
jjessehannah montana colors :)16:30
smarterSome update on the kwallet-support-in-arora stuff: An effort to create a fd.o spec for keyrings(called "Secrets") from KWallet and Gnome-Keyring developers was just brought back to life. I read the spec, and posted a proposal for "secrets"-handling in Web Browsers, we'll see where that goes16:30
smarterThe spec: http://www.gnome.org/~stefw/secrets/html/ The mailing-list: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/authentication/ My proposal: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/authentication/2009-July/000025.html16:31
smarterI feel like I've done enough work for today :P16:32
* smarter goes read some mangas16:32
seelesmarter: what do you follow?16:35
* seele has been reading bleach and naruto lately16:35
smarterA friend of mine brought me some Full Metal Alchemist recently, so I'm reading that16:35
seeledon't buy manga, fansubs are better translations and imports are overpriced16:36
agateauRiddell: I have patchsets for kdelibs and kdebase to implement support for fd.o notification spec16:36
smarterbut I still like reading on paper :)16:37
agateauRiddell: the best way for me to get them packaged is to create a bzr branch for them, right?16:37
seelei read so much manga that i tend to read western comics backwards16:37
Riddellsmarter: where does arora keep its bookmarks?16:40
Riddellagateau: yes branch our packaging16:40
Riddellput in debian/patches edit debian/patches/series  run dch -i16:40
agateauRiddell: ok16:41
ScottKagateau and Riddell: I would like to wait for us to upload until after it's accepted in KDE trunk.16:43
smarterRiddell: ~/.local/share/data/Arora/bookmarks.xbel16:43
agateauScottK: sure16:43
agateauScottK: I announced the patches on kde-core-devel, saying they had already been reviewed at GCDS and would be committed tomorrow unless someone objects16:44
ScottKagateau: I saw that.16:44
* ScottK didn't see objection yet, so it seems good.16:44
agateauScottK: given my (lack of) bandwidth, starting to create the package right now is a good idea anyway16:45
ScottKagateau: Sure thing.  You can even push the branch.  We just don't merge/upload until after you commit to kde svn.16:45
agateauScottK: oh ok16:46
Riddellsmarter: do you know if our debian/patches/kubuntu_01_google_lucky.diff patch got merged into arora?16:47
smarterdidn't even know we had that patch :p16:47
smarterI know google lucky was added to the default search engine list recently16:47
agateauScottK: Riddell: Is it supposed to work if i put the debian/ dirs I got from bzr inside a KDE4.3 upstream checkout?16:48
Riddellagateau: yes, then run `debuild` to build it16:48
Riddellalthough it'll break if any installed files have been removed since the last package version16:49
agateauRiddell: ok thanks, I guess I have to put the debian/ dirs in subdirs for kdebase16:49
Riddellalso kdebase-workspace is weird because it's split differently from upstream svn16:49
* agateau needs to patch kdebase-workspace and kdebase-runtime16:49
smarterRiddell: the "search with $engine if the url doesn't seem to exist" isn't in arora yet16:52
smarternew Arora release in a few days by the way.16:53
Riddellagateau: yes in the subdirs it is16:53
agateauRiddell: ok16:53
Riddellsmarter: should it be in do you know?16:53
smarterhaven't tested recently(I've some problems with QtWebKit) but I don't think so16:54
* seele pokes everyone with the papercuts email she sent last night17:01
seeleany volunteers?17:01
seele*poke* *poke*17:01
* agateau pretends he did not feel any poke17:03
macopapercuts email?17:16
seeleto kubuntu-devel17:18
seelelisting papercuts and looking for volunteers to fix them17:18
=== mgraesslin_ is now known as mgraesslin
seeleNightrose: what is the purpose of community.kde.org? for projects or for users?17:53
_Simedoes fixing the non-standard plasmoid resizing in plasma count as a papercut?17:55
seeleif it improves the user experience, probably17:57
seelei think there was one that fixed a clipped dialog17:57
ScottKWith any luck I'll be pushing a git snapshot of quassel to my PPA soonish.17:59
_Simeseele: I've been dying to ask this for a while. You're an expert. What is your opinion about the weird resizing for plasmoids?18:01
seele_Sime: if i could code, i would do it a different way. but since i don't code, i usually keep my comments to myself when it comes to plasma18:07
* seele has been repeatedly asked "Show me the code" when they know very well what her role in development is18:07
macoyou mean the "must maintain aspect ratio" thing?18:08
macofor the desktop folder view thingy...i dont think it makes sense18:08
seelejust the silly way you have to click on the square to resize anything, etc.18:09
seelemaybe there is a technical reason why you can't use edge resizers like in kwin18:09
_SimeI think that the devs need to better appreciate what your role in development is.18:09
* seele shrugs18:09
_SimeI mean. You *are* an expert on this.18:09
macohehe its like how you can only resize windows on osx from bottom right18:09
seeleits just a few devs in particular. there are hundreds of other developers i can work with just fine18:09
macoexcept that its like holding shift down at the same time >< (no idea if shift does that in osx,but think of shift when resizing images in OOo writer)18:10
seelei can't please everyone and i'm not going to waste my time fighting18:10
seelemaco: shift for maintaining aspect ratio you mean?18:10
_SimeI've read enough Interaction books (About Face is great) to know when to shut up and be a coder. ;)18:10
rgreening_Sime: did pyqt get updated?18:11
_Simergreening: yes, 4.5.2 is out and awaiting packaging.18:11
_Simergreening: I guess18:11
rgreeningah... JontheEchidna, feel like updating pyqt?18:11
_Simeseele: there is no techical reason for not doing it.18:11
* JontheEchidna has a few things he needs to do18:13
Nightroseseele: for projects - but I am still waiting for some things from danimo before properly introducing it18:13
Nightrosewill do so as soon as he's back from vacation18:13
Nightroseseele: what do you need it for?18:14
* ScottK thinks rgreening should do it to get over his embarassment at not getting evand to upload usb-creator yet.18:14
* rgreening thinks he's busy learning KVM, OpenAIS, dbrd, ocfs2, etc...18:15
Riddell_Sime, JontheEchidna, rgreening: I have pyqt compiling away here now18:15
rgreeningRiddell: awesome........18:15
* rgreening is off the hook18:16
_SimeRiddell: did you have fun out on the water?18:16
RiddellI also have 92 language packs(!)18:16
Riddell_Sime: mostly I was in the water :)18:16
Riddellbeing a course in rescues18:16
* JontheEchidna thinks he knows who will be the top uploader for karmic^18:16
macoyoure a lifeguard?18:17
Riddellmaco: canoeist18:17
macodoesnt your kilt kinda tangle you up?18:17
JontheEchidnais Ubuntu top uploadersamic yet?18:17
JontheEchidnablah, X dropped a crapton of key events18:17
JontheEchidnais Ubuntu top uploaders up for kamic yet?18:17
macoX is *constantly* missing key events for me18:18
Riddellmaco: :)18:18
ScottKJontheEchidna: Not last I checked.18:18
seeleNightrose: someone is telling me that the Usability site should be hosted on community.kde.org instead of techbase.kde.org18:19
seelewhich i think is inappropriate.. usability is for developers and all of the projects are on techbase18:19
* ScottK thinks that sounds right.18:20
macoits not the users that need to be taught about it18:20
macowell...except the users like me who go "what? whats wrong with a window manager written in and configured in pure haskell?"18:21
macobut i keep drifting further away from normal-user all the time, so....18:21
Nightroseseele: well the plan is to move all projects stuff (including developer related things) away from techbase18:21
Nightroseso basically everything under /porjects18:22
Nightrosebut it's a little premature just yet18:22
seeleso would the HIG stay at techbase but all of the other usability stuff be at community?18:22
Nightroseas i said i need to discuss a few more things with danimo18:22
* seele is confused18:22
Nightrosetechbase will be our outside facing dev docu18:23
Nightroseso for 3rd party developers and so on18:23
Nightrosecommunity.kde.org will be a playground for techbase and a place for the community to organise things18:23
Nightroselike store meeting minutes18:23
Nightroseplan events18:23
Nightrosethere will be a better explanation once everything is set up18:24
Nightroseso for now continue to use techbase18:24
Nightrosewe'll take care of the moving of /Projects when danimo is back18:25
Nightroseand tell whoever told you to use community.kde.org that it is not ready just yet18:26
Nightroseand yea there is no plan to move the usability team out of development stuff :)18:26
seelewell i asked to redirect usability.kde.org to techbase and they said to use community18:30
seeleso i was confused18:30
Nightroseahh ok18:33
Nightroseyea it's a little early for that18:33
Nightrosebut hopefully in a few days18:34
ryanakcaWhy does akonadi-server depend on mysql-server-core-5.0 instead of mysql-server-core-5.0 | mysql-server-core-5.1 ?19:21
ScottKryanakca: Because 5.0 is in Main and if you allow both very confusing things can happen.19:22
ryanakcaAh :)19:31
ScottKmaco: I'm working on quassel stuff again.  Did you ever give your patch about action persistence to Sput?19:51
macowhat i gave you was a backport from what sput's got in quassel19:56
macoin trunk that wasnt in jaunty19:57
macothough...i forget what it did now19:57
macoScottK, ^19:57
* apachelogger hugs rickspencer3 and sends over a whole container with cookies19:58
rickspencer3apachelogger: what happened to hsitter?20:00
apacheloggerbzr revert ;-)20:00
apacheloggerapparently people didn't like it20:00
rickspencer3so I take it your friends made it back from Desktop Summit?20:00
apacheloggerrickspencer3: yus, worked out very well :)20:02
rickspencer3too bad you couldn't make it to DS, though20:02
rickspencer3was fun20:02
ScottKmaco: OK.  Well if it was just a backport from trunk, then I guess I won't worry about it for Karmic.  Thanks.20:03
apacheloggerrickspencer3: so I have been told, I suppose attending this kind of stuff should be easier once I am a student20:03
ScottKapachelogger: That or after Canonical starts sponsoring community people to such things.20:04
macoScottK, i think what i gave you was to fix parsing of notifications. it was a cherrypick from trunk because was broken in jaunty20:04
apacheloggeror do more upstream contirbution and get sponsored by KDE ;-)20:04
ScottKmaco: OK.  It seems to work here, but I've lost track of what version I have installed.20:05
seaLnedid anyone else have problems installing updates today? i used kpackagekit to do the upgrade and it never gave any warnings when i came back to it it looked finished so after doing somethings i rebooted and couldn't login to kde, from console i apt-get -f install and noticed it continuing to install upstart which had been one of teh packages to be upgraded, struggling to think of anymore details that could actually make abug report out of it20:10
Quintasanumm anyone here uses samba default config? I need values for Workgroup, NetBIOS name and the server name fields20:11
macoQuintasan, wouldnt that be someting to ask your net admin?20:28
Quintasanmaco: I'm my net admin :P I'm trying to figure why my shares suddenly disappeared from windows computer and I cant access them20:29
Quintasanlast thing I did was changing the NetBIOS name and Workgroup20:29
Quintasans/Workgroup/Server\ name/20:29
macomaybe you changed them to not-what-your-win-machine-uses?20:29
macoby the way, have you heard of etckeeper?20:29
macocould prevent future situations like this20:30
QuintasanWorkgroup is okay, server name looks good, dunno but NetBIOS20:30
Quintasanlet me get it first :P20:30
macoversion control for /etc20:31
macoso when you do things like this, you hit the big red undo button20:32
* ScottK actually got the kpackagekit notification today.20:32
maco(note: big red undo button sold separately. git & bzr revert are included however)20:32
ScottKThat almost never happens.20:32
Quintasanmaco: if etckeeper is red button then it looks like I smashed whole control panel :P20:33
* Quintasan never got notfication from packagekit20:33
QuintasanThat's why I want shaman 2 in kamic :P20:34
macoi sometimes get kpackagekit notifications20:36
macoor rather, see the icon for it, then switch to desktop 9 and click where the tray says i have notifications waiting20:36
macoi have no idea why notifications only show on desktop 920:36
Quintasanyou have 9 desktops?20:37
Quintasanmaybe I should give it a try20:44
QuintasanI keep all windows on one desktop :O20:44
ScottKNCommander: So 10 hours isn't enough, what now? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/4.5.2-0ubuntu1/+build/1097116/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-armel.qt4-x11_4.5.2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz20:50
NCommanderScottK, well, it seems we're dealing with a possible red-hearing20:52
NCommanderScottK, (w.r.t. to lzma, I'm currently running a few more test builds to work on it)20:53
NCommanderScottK, this is one of my priorities20:53
apacheloggeras a last option we can always turn off lzma if arch is arm21:15
DreadKnightgreat. latest updates broke my install21:27
seelewho was asking about a kubuntu meeting earlier this morning?21:48
macoseele, yikes21:53
seelemaco: ?21:54
macoyou havent gotten the email yet?21:54
* seele checks21:54
* DreadKnight *cough* latest updates broke my install21:55
* seele has some words21:57
macoi don't have the impression that you fully appreciate the effects of the function whose naming you are trying to change. let me propose a few alternatives: shoot down, blow away, nuke. or maybe you prefer references to forceful termination of life? how about kill, slay, snuff? or maybe let's just stay with abort, how would that be?21:59
maco^^^ what he said21:59
maco(quassel just ate my cpu)21:59
seeleyeah, i see that21:59
ScottKDreadKnight: We feel your pain, but without specifics it's really hard to  comment.22:17
ScottKNCommander: Looks like my Quassel test builds are hung up in the PPA buildds.  Any chance you could pry them loose?22:18
DreadKnighttoshiba m400 portege... intel gma 945... after pc boots, i get only a black screen with an underscore in the upper left corner scottK22:18
ScottKDreadKnight: What about if you use the previous kernel?22:18
DreadKnighti tried many kernels22:18
DreadKnightsame results22:19
ScottKDreadKnight: OK.  How about nomodeset in your boot options?22:19
DreadKnightlemme see about that..22:19
DreadKnightscottK im at grub, how do i do that exactly?22:20
DreadKnight(just to make sure i do things properly)22:21
ScottKDreadKnight: in the kernel boot parameters add nomodeset at the end of the line.22:21
ScottKDreadKnight: Like kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-13-generic root=UUID=55f34c0a-694c-4a95-94c4-6a1f80d6c2f0 ro quiet splash nomodeset22:21
ScottKI'm on Jaunty at the moment, so your will be slightly different.22:22
DreadKnightno worries, i get the idea.. let's see now.22:22
DreadKnightsort of22:23
DreadKnighti get X at least22:23
ScottKDreadKnight: Progress.22:24
DreadKnight"welcome to localhost.localdomain"22:24
DreadKnightwhen i try to boot, i get back to x22:24
ScottKIt's not a KDE specific issue then, so #ubuntu+1 is probably your best bet for further support.22:24
DreadKnightim on the latest kernel, which had issues with my video card22:24
ScottKNot much we can help with on that here.  There is also #ubuntu-x22:25
DreadKnightthanks scottK :)22:27
DreadKnightbah... *flips a coin... mint or sabayon..*22:33
ScottKmaco: I'd write back "Thanks for suggesting alternatives, but exit seems best".22:36
macoScottK, seele just started yelling at him in #kde-devel then people started debating what phrasing would be best and should there be explanatory text that youll lose your unsaved work etc.22:38
ScottKmaco: OK.22:39
ScottKNCommander: Dunno if you fixed my PPA problem (if you did thanks), but the build finally finished.22:39
ScottKNew quassel installing.  Brb if it goes well.22:40
maco:( there are no icons in OOo22:40
macoits all text22:40
macoi cant find the "new slide button"22:40
ScottKOK.  Ther world didn't immediately esplode.22:42
ScottKseele: Current quassel git snapshot in my PPA for Jaunty and Karmic.22:42
ScottKAt least if you're on i386.  amd64 isn't built yet.22:43
macoargh the images to show what slide layout youre going for are gone -_-22:47
JontheEchidnaWe're gonna get bug 400,000 in a few hours23:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 400 in ttf-larabie "ttf-larabie-* packages do not contain any fonts" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40023:55
ubottuError: Launchpad bug 0 could not be found23:55
JontheEchidnaor maybe minutes23:55

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