[00:00] <JontheEchidna> ideally you'd create a desktop-neutral system for doing such things
[00:00] <JontheEchidna> but that seems out of scope for a papercut
[00:06] <seele> ok that's all i needed to know
[00:11] <maco> its fixed in 9.10 already
[00:11] <maco> first time i used amarok after installing 2 days ago, i got a popup from it offering to install mp3, dvd codecs, video codecs, and flash
[00:11] <maco> oooh you mean for amarok-in-gnome?
[00:18] <apachelogger> just make kdelibs depend on update-notifier-kde :P
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> lol
[00:27] <JontheEchidna> maco: yes, amarok-in-gnome
[00:27] <JontheEchidna> amarok-in-kde has been working since 9.04 ;-)
[00:28] <maco> i dont recall that popup, but probably already had codecs by the time i installed kde
[00:33] <seele> maco: re: Powerdevil: Committed in 996827
[00:34] <maco> great!
[00:40] <seele> does tkampeter work for canonical now instead of LF? he always shows up in the desktop meeting minutes
[01:21] <ScottK> seele: Both Kaffeine and Dragonplayer suggest installing codecs and give you a one click install for them.
[01:22] <ScottK> seele: I don't think so, but I'm not certain.
[02:16] <a|wen> ScottK / JontheEchidna: might be worth checking the conversation in #debian-qt-kde around an hour ago about kde file dialog not being used in qt-apps; just checked in karmic, we are affected too ... sorry for just throwing it at you, but I'm leaving for 10 days in two hours; and you were the last relevant people speaking in here
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> supposedly the oxygen theme is now linking against something that should do this now in KDE 4.3
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> a quick look at arora suggests otherwise, though :/
[02:18] <ryanakca> Does anybody have any last changes they want made to the wiki theme before I start prodding the sysadmins?
[02:19] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: exactly... there is some linking error
[02:19] <JontheEchidna> an error with the packages or with upstream?
[02:20] <a|wen> upstream it seems
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> whee
[02:21] <ryanakca> 'LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libkio.so.5 arora' makes it work though apperently...
[02:21] <ryanakca> 20:20:44 < pinotree> either patch kdebase-runtime/kstyles/oxygen/CMakeLists.txt to add that flag for the oxygen target, or disable -as-needed for kdebase-runtime
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> aaah
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> that'd do it
[02:22] <a|wen> :)
[02:22]  * JontheEchidna wonders how far is too far when trying to link against as few things as possible
[02:25] <a|wen> he
[02:25] <JontheEchidna> wow, my kdepim-runtime package was more elaborate than debian's: http://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/kdepim-runtime
[02:26] <JontheEchidna> now that debian has 4.3, we can go on one last mega-merge from karmic (and keep an eye on later debian changes, of course)
[02:27]  * a|wen was thinking the same thing a bit earlier
[02:29] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: more elaborate, is that a good or a bad thing?
[02:30] <a|wen> more ellaborate? ... they are pretty equal on that point i would say :P
[02:31] <ryanakca> (If it's better, we should try getting the parts they don't have into their packages...)
[02:32] <a|wen> at least the changelog is
[02:33] <JontheEchidna> ryanakca: I separated out the libs and binaries out into their own packages
[02:33] <JontheEchidna> theirs seems to be a monolithic package
[02:35] <a|wen> oh ... that should go to debian
[02:36] <seele> have the quassel devs officially received our IRC wishlist for karmic? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKarmicIrc
[02:38] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: at least we should get to terms with debian about it... though the maintainer of the package is gone for the next 10 days as well
[02:39]  * JontheEchidna was gone for 10 days 12 days ago
[02:39]  * a|wen is planning to say hi to the maintainer in the train tomorrow morning
[02:42]  * ryanakca is guessing JontheEchidna could just send an email to the debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org list if he wanted to get it done sooner...
[02:43]  * JontheEchidna puts it on the todo list for tomorrow, is still pretty tired from his "10 days"
[02:44] <ScottK> seele: They (Quassel devs) did,
[02:44] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Or I could shove it i their svn.
[02:44] <a|wen> JontheEchidna: you should be the opposite of tired from 10 days vacation :P
[02:45] <JontheEchidna> a|wen: visiting family ain't exactly vacation :P
[02:45] <JontheEchidna> well, sorta
[02:45] <JontheEchidna> but still tiring
[02:45] <JontheEchidna> I need a vacation [/ahnald]
[02:46] <seele> ScottK: ok, just checking
[02:46] <a|wen> he ... i'm most likely not coming back refreshed either after my 10 days
[02:46] <seele> is the kde4 port of konversation available for jaunty or just karmic?
[02:46] <JontheEchidna> seele: a somewhat-recent alpha is available in regular jaunty-backports
[02:47] <JontheEchidna> (2 alphas behind)
[02:47] <seele> alpha? is it going to be released by karmic or do we plan on shipping a beta if we dont go with quassel?
[02:47] <JontheEchidna> it's already quite good
[02:47]  * seele thinks we need to slow down and stop shipping incomplete software for once
[02:47] <JontheEchidna> alpha in name only
[02:47]  * seele sighs
[02:47] <seele> i wont even bring up arora again
[02:48] <seele> regardless of what i say i'm out voted
[02:48] <JontheEchidna> arora sucks at the moment
[02:48] <ScottK> seele: I've now tried arora and I don't get it.
[02:48] <seele> ScottK: where were you a few weeks ago when i needed backup! hehe
[02:49] <JontheEchidna> but believe me, you definitely wouldn't even know that konvi is in alpha right now
[02:49]  * ScottK is seriously considering Firefox for KNE.
[02:49] <ScottK> We can afford the ISO size for the depends there.
[02:50] <ScottK> If Qt/KDE want us to ship a browser that uses their tools, then then can produce one that's as good or better IMO.
[02:50] <seele> i dont even want to hear about replacing firefox with something else until after 4.4 and we see what the khtml guys get done
[02:50] <seele> agreed
[02:50] <ryanakca> ScottK: iirc, (at least on Jaunty), pulling FF without all the recommends was only 1086kB...
[02:50] <ScottK> I think Konqueror in 4.3 is better than Arora ATM.
[02:50] <seele> we also need to get printing done! ARGH
[02:50]  * seele pokes Riddell with a 1000 sticks
[02:50] <a|wen> especially after firefox actually started looking nice in jaunty
[02:51]  * JontheEchidna is having Hobbsee flashbacks
[02:51]  * ryanakca grins
[02:51] <seele> kpackagekit needs love too.. maybe switching from adept2 was a bad idea
[02:51]  * seele head desks
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> well
[02:51] <a|wen> konqueror in 4.2 is better than arora
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> aside from the part where adept2 doesn't work at all in kde4
[02:52] <seele> well kpackagekit isnt perfect either and you can't install stuff like java because of the agreement
[02:52] <a|wen> seele: you should convince dantti from debian-qt-kde to come join us here
[02:52] <JontheEchidna> Adept 3 is fine imo, except that you have to be a bit intelligent with your searches to get what you want
[02:52] <JontheEchidna> Adept 3 is a solid piece of software
[02:53] <ScottK> It suffers, like kpackagekit, from a poor security design that makes it unsuitable IMO.
[02:53] <a|wen> seele: looks like that is the guy actually working on some of the needed improvements in kpackagekit, polkitkde etc.
[02:53] <ScottK> It appears we have a shot at getting cryptographich verification in Karmic with kpackagekit.
[02:54] <ScottK> It still sucks, but at least it won't be actively dangerous.
[02:54] <seele> ScottK: is that the installing unsigned packages without notification issue?
[02:54] <ScottK> Yes
[02:55] <seele> cool
[02:55] <seele> i'd like to do more reviewing on the UI, specifically the icons and how to handle installed, to-be-installed, and not-installed packages in the list
[02:58] <maco> can we pleeease do testing on that?
[02:59] <maco> seele, wait you can do agreement stuff with packagekit. at least according to the packagekit website, packages can be flagged as requiring a eula
[03:00] <maco> (that = the icons to use for update/install/remove)
[03:01] <seele> i dont think i'll have time to do a usability test before karmic
[03:01] <seele> i probably wont have time to do any usability testing until next spring, unfortunately
[03:01] <seele> i can't even seem to pull together a kde 4.3 party this time around
[03:15]  * ScottK waves to dantti.
[03:15] <dantti> ScottK: hmm do you think here is better?
[03:16]  * dantti waves back
[03:16] <ScottK> Well dunno for sure.
[03:16] <ScottK> There are others here that care about kpackagekit getting better.
[03:16] <a|wen> hi dantti, and welcome
[03:16]  * ScottK waves to seele.
[03:16] <dantti> ok
[03:16]  * seele waves
[03:16] <seele> oh, dantti is the packagekit maintainer?
[03:16]  * vorian bows to seele 
[03:17] <vorian> congrats on the e.V
[03:17] <vorian> and award
[03:17] <seele> vorian: thanks. e.V. will be lots of work i'm afraid :)
[03:17] <dantti> well what i basically needs now is for richard's approval on one of the problems..
[03:17] <ScottK> vorian: Careful.  Se may get a big head and not talk to us peons any more.
[03:17] <vorian> seele: you'll be awesome, don't worry about the work
[03:17] <ScottK> Se/She
[03:17] <seele> ScottK: lol yeah right. youre my only friends!
[03:17] <vorian> ha
[03:18] <dantti> seele: not packagekit maintainer, I'm the author of kpackagekit, and aptcc a new backend for apt written in c++
[03:18] <seele> dantti: ooh, even better. would you be the person to ping if i do a UI review with recommendations?
[03:18] <ScottK> dantti: I heard a vague mention of if we get packagekit 0.5 in we can reject installatio of unsigned packages and such.
[03:18] <dantti> seele: yup
[03:19] <ScottK> Do you know about that and what we need to support for it?
[03:19] <dantti> ScottK: well atpcc simply rejects all unsiged packages, but with packagekit 0.5 it will be able to install it..
[03:20] <dantti> but i didn't code that yet.. since i'm working on other more important things right now..
[03:20] <seele> dantti: cool, i'll keep that in mind
[03:20] <ScottK> dantti: So let me see if I understand it ... aptcc is an alternate packagekit backend for apt?
[03:20] <vorian> bug 389658 can be a meeting topic, yes?
[03:20] <dantti> like making polkit1 from trunk run on debian :P so i can make polkit-qt1
[03:21] <seele> ryanakca: you know, it would be nice if you could set a cookie for if edit is on or off. it is annoying to have to show the bar every time i refresh or navigate to a new page
[03:21] <dantti> ScottK: yes, it's a new backend
[03:21] <dantti> ScottK: afaik it's already packaged..
[03:21] <ScottK> OK.
[03:22] <dantti> for kubuntu of course..
[03:22] <ScottK> Right.
[03:22]  * ScottK just notice the lack of rmadison on his freshly installed netbook ....
[03:22] <ScottK> Hard to look stuff up ...
[03:22] <dantti> it already brings various benefits such as translation of package details.. and speed which for me is damn important
[03:23] <ScottK> I understood policy kit integrationin KDE is a 4.4 thing.
[03:23] <dantti> no, it's already in 4.3
[03:24] <ScottK> OK.  Good.
[03:24] <dantti> 4.4 is polkit1 thing
[03:24] <ScottK> Which is the thing you need?
[03:24] <dantti> and packagekit depends on polkit1 so, i have to finish polkit-qt1, fix packagekit-qt to use it
[03:25] <dantti> ScottK: yep :P i think polkit-qt1 is one of the most important things while Richard waits for comments on my last email to the list..
[03:26] <ScottK> So I see our packagekit currently depens on packagekit-backend-apt
[03:26] <ScottK> That's the part that aptcc replaces?
[03:27] <dantti> yep probably...
[03:27] <ScottK> Can packagekit use either or does it have to be changed for aptcc?
[03:27] <dantti> aptcc does everything py apt  does exept install/remove/update since i'll only do that when the lower steps are ready..
[03:28] <dantti> ScottK: packagekit.cond, backend=aptcc
[03:28] <dantti> *conf
[03:28] <ScottK> OK.  Cool.
[03:28] <ScottK> That means if we want to be different than Ubuntu we can do it.
[03:28] <dantti> ScottK: yep.. actually both can be installed..
[03:29] <dantti> you just need to switch the conf file..
[03:29] <dantti> *change..
[03:29] <ScottK> Interesting.
[03:31] <ScottK> dantti: We are currently about 6 weeks from feature freeze.  What do you think it's realistic to think of achieving in that time to make the kpackagekit experience better for our users this time around?
[03:31] <dantti> ScottK: no... 6 weeks is too short
[03:32] <dantti> polkit1 is not even properly released imo
[03:32] <ScottK> Does 10 weeks help any?
[03:32] <ScottK> That's our beta freeze
[03:33] <ScottK> I think kpackagekit ended up being our second least favorite feature for Jaunty so whatever we can do between now and then to make things better would be important.
[03:33] <dantti> well I'm really not sure, since there are various problems... polkit1, polkit-qt1, packagekit-qt, aptcc (which might be the longest) and finally kpackagekit..
[03:34] <ScottK> Well one piece of good news as far as getting stuff into our archive is that two of the Kubuntu devs are also archive admins (our equivalent of ftp-master) so we can get stuff through New as fast as we need to.
[03:34] <dantti> all those things takes a good amount of time and thinking, since aptcc needs approval and code.. :P
[03:35] <dantti> ScottK: well that's good but I still think the time is too short.. and I'm a pretty busy guy btw.. :P
[03:36] <ScottK> Of course.
[03:36] <dantti> this week my wife is traveling so i have a bit more time ;)
[03:36] <ScottK> even if stuff only gets radically better for the next release, that's fine.
[03:36] <ScottK> I understand.  My wife is out of town today too.
[03:36] <dantti> hehe
[03:37] <ScottK> I would like to get some idea what we can do to make stuff better this cycle.
[03:38] <dantti> well i'm trying my best, i'm counting the days to see that in debian but unfutunatly it's not that easy.. richard is very flexible in some changes but not all of them, and it's been about 2 months i'm poking him with new ideas of how to fix our apt problems..
[03:39] <maco> seele, what you said about no time for testing. on the icon thing, what about like how pinheito (er...probably getting the nick wrong) had for k3b? the website where you choose which icon is your first reaction to a term
[03:39] <ScottK> maco: t/r
[03:39] <maco> t/r?
[03:39] <dantti> ScottK: well if you can get coders, polkit-qt1 would be the first shot, and thankfully it's coinstallable with polkit-qt0
[03:40] <ScottK> maco: pinheiro
[03:40] <seele> maco: those icons are tested out of context of workflows.. being involved in a task and having a specific mindset could/would effect how an icon is interpreted
[03:40] <seele> maco: but that doesnt mean we can just design something better and review it internally, we just wont get as strong of a validation
[03:41] <maco> fair enough
[03:41] <ScottK> dantti: Well coders is a problem of course.  I think Tonio is perhaps interested, but he's not been around much recently (changing jobs).
[03:41] <maco> what languages?
[03:41] <maco> is there any C?
[03:41] <ScottK> dantti: ^^
[03:42] <maco> that's the only language i can be productive in ATM
[03:42] <seele> ScottK: i didnt know Tonio was changing jobs. Is he still in Paris or moving?
[03:42] <dantti> ScottK: i see, another thing todo is add docs to kpackagekit, i didn't had time to do that yet... (as it's in playground there's no need yet)
[03:42] <dantti> maco: c++ to be precise..
[03:43] <dantti> maco: polkit1 is C  + glib but polkit-qt1 is c++
[03:44] <maco> i can do C/glib stuff....
[03:44] <maco> would also be fine with documentation
[03:44] <dantti> it's not a hard work... there's already a fedora dude with a working patch but i can't test it since i could not get polkit1 to run here on debian nor Dario on arch
[03:44] <maco> (was a gnome user. learned c/glib...soon as i got to be kinda proficient, switched to kde)
[03:45] <dantti> maco: that's nice.. since polkit-gnome is gtk, and we need to undertand that piece of .. , It gave me enough headches to do polkit-qt/kde0
[03:45] <dantti> at least i can see it working now :D
[03:46] <maco> i have yet to see well-commented code come out of gnome
[03:47] <ScottK> dantti: We can also use our PPA infrastructure to build a separate repo to test all these pieces out together before they are ready for the archive.
[03:47] <dantti> maco: you need to see a well commented code to unsderstand? (sorry not an english speaker :P )
[03:48] <ScottK> Well commented code always helps.
[03:48] <dantti> sure..
[03:48] <maco> dantti, ive learned to deal. they at least have a useful convention for function names. but by "not well commented" please understand that i mean the only comment youre likely to see is "this code is released under the gplv2"
[03:49] <maco> occasionally a "fixme" will show up
[03:49] <dantti> hehe...
[03:50] <dantti> well i don't remember the code very much but there was good comments i think.. the biggest problem was C + glb
[03:50] <dantti> that thing just suck too much..
[03:50] <dantti> callbacks..
[03:50] <maco> callbacks are like slots
[03:50] <maco> (assuming ive had slots explained properly)
[03:50] <dantti> you need to keep all that think in you mind so you don't get lost....
[03:50] <dantti> *thing
[03:50] <maco> :sp and :vsp :)
[03:51] <dantti> they are like slots but in a different (ugly) way imo..
[03:52] <seele> is the plasma widget picker the same in 4.3? dont remember if they changed it for 4.3 or if it is planed for 4.4
[03:52] <dantti> and there are too many parts that 'lock' the code, so sometimes we need local event loops..
[03:52] <maco> oh pretty
[03:53] <ScottK> seele: It's the same (or very close)
[03:56] <dantti> ok i have to sleep now..
[03:57]  * a|wen waves to everyone ... see you again in 10 days
[03:57] <dantti> you you guys can help i suggest start by kpackagekit docs and polkit-qt/kde 1.0
[03:57] <dantti> *if you...
[03:58] <maco> are the docs started at all and need to be fleshed out, or this a from-scratch?
[03:58] <maco> i dont know kde processes yet, but do y'all use docbook?
[03:59] <ScottK> doxygen I think.
[03:59] <ScottK> nixternal is Mr. Documentation.
[03:59] <dantti> maco: it's a from scratch, i've made the polkit-kde ones, i think it's easy enough to get the idea..
[03:59] <maco> ok
[04:00] <dantti> i didn't started before because of time and the ui was changing and will change a bit, but just the screen shots that will probably be different..
[04:00] <maco> ok. is ScottK right about doxygen?
[04:00] <maco> i thought kdm's docs were in docbook...
[04:01] <ScottK> I may be thinking KDE3.
[04:01] <dantti> i still want a better but good looking way to select packages, i have some ideas in mind but TIME attacks again :P
[04:01] <dantti> no no, i would said he was right but i confused it here...
[04:01] <dantti> doxygem are for code docs..
[04:01] <dantti> docbook for app docs
[04:02] <maco> ah ok
[04:02] <dantti> packagekit-qt uses doxygem..
[04:09] <dantti> gnight..
[04:10] <maco> night night
[04:12] <nixternal> maco: docbook for manuals and doxygen for api
[04:13] <maco> kk
[08:38] <seraphim> hi
[09:24] <kwwii> wow, just installed karmic, looking nice ;)
[10:17] <Riddell> kwwii: yay
[10:19] <jussi01> ooh, Riddell is back! :D
[10:19] <Riddell> home at last
[10:19] <jussi01> wb Riddell
[10:19] <Riddell> thanks, nice to be back
[10:19] <Riddell> even without my laptop power cable
[10:19] <jussi01> ouch
[10:20] <jussi01> Riddell: when is the next meeting? / link me the agenda maybe?
[10:20] <Riddell> we don't have one planned
[10:21] <jussi01> Riddell: hrm, you need to rectify that.. :)
[10:21] <Riddell> what needs meeting about?
[10:22]  * jussi01 wants kubuntu membership...
[10:22] <Riddell> oh aye
[10:22] <jussi01> So I can actually vote in stuff where my ubuntu membership doesnt suffice
[10:22] <Riddell> you can do that doodle.com thing if you want to kick it off
[10:23] <jussi01> yeah, Might do that, does it just go to the devel list or?
[10:27] <Riddell> yes
[10:31] <seele> Riddell: yay you're back!
[10:33] <Riddell> yay!
[10:49] <seaLne> hmm didn't you used to be able to in lp set a bug status back to unconfirmed?
[10:50] <seaLne> or is there another appropriate for "working again for me anyone else care to comment" status
[11:10] <ryanakca> Riddell: Welcome back. Any last things you wanted done to the wiki theme (currently http://wiki.ryanak.ca/kubuntu/ ) before I start prodding sysadmins?
[11:19] <seaLne> ryanakca: that looks nice and clean
[11:28] <Mamarok> Quote: "mobi-sheep> Props to KDE developers.  I now think all Ubuntu moms should use KDE instead of Gnome.  Much cleaner and easier on transition from Window-alike experience. :o
[11:28] <Mamarok> from a Gnome user in #kubuntu...
[11:29] <Tm_T> Mamarok: aye, always happy to hear we are doing something right
[11:29] <Mamarok> well, I told im "not only for moms" :)
[11:32] <Riddell> ryanakca: wiki theme looks great to me
[12:14] <_Sime> Riddell: PyQt 4.5.2 is out and needs packaging / updating.
[12:26] <e-jat> when will this bug 334122 get decide?
[12:30] <Riddell> _Sime: gotcha
[12:33] <e-jat> Riddell: any comment for that bug
[12:37] <Riddell> e-jat: it's not implemented in the network manager plasmoid
[12:37] <Riddell> so no, it won't work I'm afraid
[12:39] <e-jat> :( its mean plasmoid wont work with 3g usb modem ?
[12:39] <e-jat> so need to use wvdial manually in kde ;(
[12:41] <Riddell> or nm-applet
[12:41] <ghostcube> btw what is this bug that causes x to crash in the rc candidate packages
[12:43] <e-jat> Riddell: any other alternative ? or kde people working on it ..
[12:47] <Riddell> ghostcube: KDM upgrade
[12:48] <ghostcube> ah ok so just installing on tty ..
[12:48] <ghostcube> is rc2 more useful than rc1
[12:48] <ghostcube> :D
[13:07] <Riddell> 4.3 has gained an impressive array of lanaguages
[13:07] <Riddell> I wonder where Chhattisgarhi is from
[13:09] <Mamarok> Riddell: India?
[13:11] <Riddell> at last, I can use KDE in Luxembourgish!
[13:11] <Quintasan> :D
[13:27] <ryanakca> Quintasan: Were you the one who made the move to Kate's vim mode and wished that vim had tabs?
[13:28] <Quintasan> ryanakca: looks like
[13:29] <ryanakca> Quintasan: in vim, :tabnew blah, :tabclose, :tabprev, :tabnext, and 'gt' to switch between tabs quickly :)
[13:29] <Quintasan> :O
[13:31] <Riddell> dpm: ping
[13:31] <Riddell> dpm: I'm going to upload new KDE langpacks today, is launchpad setup for all these new languages?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~jriddell/tmp/NEW
[13:32] <ScottK> Riddell: Do you know if the 3G stuff is planned for NM widget anytime soon?
[13:32] <dpm> Riddell: are they for Karmic?
[13:33] <Riddell> dpm: yes
[13:33] <Riddell> ScottK: sometime after the basic work I think
[13:33] <ScottK> Right.   That's probably sensible.  3G stuff is important for netbook though...
[13:35] <dpm> Riddell: I'm checking
[13:44] <jussi01> ScottK: I really hope it gets done for karmic. if we can have similar to the gnome setup, with the mobiledb included that would be awesome
[13:51] <Riddell> what's mobiledb?
[13:54] <ScottK> IIRC it's a list of mobile providers so you can automagically connect via 3g since all the particulars for your provider are already in the system.
[13:57] <ScottK> Any packaging ninjas looking for work, I'd like to get http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/base/plasma/netbook/ into a PPA as soon as we can ....
[14:07] <dpm> Riddell: I've double-checked it with danilo: it should be ok to import all new languages into LP. Just a few extra notes -> http://pastebin.com/m63c9a55
[14:19] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: did we need some kdelibs modifications for the netbook stuff?
[14:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Not sure.
[14:19] <jussi01> !info mobile-broadband-provider-info | Riddell
[14:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: We can ask MoRpHeUs in #kubuntu-netbooks.
[14:20] <Quintasan> ScottK: How I should name the package?
[14:21] <ScottK> Quintasan: --> #kubuntu-netbook
[14:23] <ScottK> Quintasan: MoRpHeUs is one of the upstream developers for plasma-netbook.
[14:23]  * Quintasan nods
[14:28] <seele> why are my kernel updates always blocked in kpackagekit?
[14:29] <seele> every single time.. *grrr*
[14:32] <jussi01> seele: Ive wondered that also. maybe they need a dist upgrade, and not just an upgrade like kpackagekit does? (speculation on a few points there... but yeah)
[14:33] <e-jat> jussi01: i think need to dist upgrade ...
[14:35] <seele> apt-get upgrade doesnt work
[14:35] <seele> i have to apt-get install linux-image-generic and -headers by hand
[14:36] <seele> er, individually
[14:39] <ScottK> seele: apt-get dist-upgrade
[14:40] <ScottK> This is yet another reason kpackagekit is totally unsuitable.
[14:43] <seele> as opposed to what? broken adept2?
[14:43] <ScottK> seele: Adept 2 was the KDE3 one.  Adept 3 was incomplete, but substantially less so than KPackageKit.
[14:44]  * seele throws up her arms
[14:44] <ScottK> seele: The problem is kpackagekit was designed for rpm and just doesn't have concepts for many important Debian package management functions.
[14:44] <seele> how was i suppsoed to know kpackagekit was incomplete? that's what technical people are for!
[14:45] <jjesse> i never use kpackagekit, i always use apt
[14:45]  * ScottK wasn't at that UDS ....
[14:45] <ScottK> seele: We've crossed the bridge now, so we need to push on.
[14:45]  * seele wants to go back to bed
[14:53] <ryanakca> Riddell: How does the kubuntunew theme on http://wiki.kubuntu.org look ? You may need to clear your cache to get the most recent version.
[14:54] <ryanakca> (in other words, lamont and I are wondering if we can set it as the default theme)
[15:00] <Riddell> ryanakca: looks good to me
[15:00] <ryanakca> Riddell: OK
[15:19] <e-jat> ryanakca: gj to the kubuntu wiki team
[15:29] <wincide> hi, hola, do someone know any debugger instead of gdb ??? i cannot trace some core files ...
[15:30] <nhandler> ryanakca: It might just be me, but it looks like you have a little overlap with the bar at the top and the search buttons. Could we maybe leave a bigger gap at the top of the page (above the white content section) so that the bar has room?
[15:32] <ulysses__> hello
[15:33] <ulysses__> i've installed kubuntu from the daily iso, and there isn't windows in the grub, it's a bug?
[15:51] <ScottK> Riddell: Currently there is a note in the Kubuntu desktop seed that kleopatra  "doesn't currently install".  It does and works very good (a real improvement from KDE3 kleopatra).  I think it would be good to provide this as it also does general gpg key management stuff very well now.
[15:54] <Riddell> go for it ScottK
[15:54] <ScottK> OK.  Doing.
[16:05] <javi_> ryanakca: can you try to refocus a bit the kubuntu logo? it seems a little blurry to me
[16:05] <Riddell> it's always been blurry has that version
[16:06] <javi_> ah, didn't knew :D
[16:09] <kwwii> if it is from the usplash or the old kdm it has a blur around it in the svg ;)
[16:10] <ScottK> Riddell: Seeds changed so kleopatra ought to show up on component mismatches.
[16:10] <javi_> ryanakca: in firefox 3.0.11 #showbar is moved down when #editbar is shown
[16:13] <javi_> ryanakca: and there is a lot of empty space on top where you may consider to add a navigation menu like kubuntu's main page
[16:14] <javi_> besides that, the theme is pretty cool
[16:15] <javi_> oh and the favicon is missing :D
[16:16] <kwwii> hrm, has anyone else had problems with network in karmic?
[16:17] <kwwii> ahhh, yes...the bugs say they have
[16:25] <rgreening> kwwii: hey.
[16:25] <rgreening> kwwii: any luck in the usb-creator-kde icon?
[16:25] <rgreening> :)
[16:25] <kwwii> rgreening: oops, forgot all about it to be honest
[16:25] <kwwii> sorry
[16:25] <rgreening> lol
[16:26] <rgreening> are we going to do a kmenu icon?
[16:26] <kwwii> I'll try to finish it up asap, although I am in london atm ...the files are on my computer at home
[16:26] <rgreening> hehe
[16:26] <kwwii> well, that is a good question
[16:26]  * rgreening likes the idea
[16:26] <kwwii> it seems that upstream wants distros to brand their kde
[16:26] <kwwii> quite a few people like the idea...but historically we did not brand that icon for a reason :p
[16:27] <rgreening> kwwii: right click the kmenu. theres a setting to change the icon.
[16:27] <rgreening> so, it seems like upspream has it ready for branding.
[16:27] <ScottK> kwwii: Well I kind of agree, but if we can get a Kubuntuized one that still carries the upstream flavor, I think it's OK.
[16:27] <Riddell> upstream has the label inside the k-menu for distros to brand, they don't paticuarly want distros to brand the k-menu icon itself
[16:27] <rgreening> so, I'm ok with it. Riddell?
[16:28] <rgreening> Riddell: then why add the option to change the kmenu icon
[16:28] <Riddell> KDE likes options
[16:28] <rgreening> I think they don't mind changing the icon
[16:28] <rgreening> they want it to be distinct though, not the kde gears.
[16:28] <rgreening> other than that, it would seem ok...
[16:29]  * rgreening thinks, if you don't want someone to change something, you don't add an option to do so.
[16:29] <rgreening> :P
[16:29] <kwwii> I suggest we just make it all green
[16:29] <kwwii> :p
[16:30] <kwwii> oh wait, that color is taken
[16:30] <rgreening> I big kiwii
[16:30] <rgreening> lol
[16:30] <jjesse> hannah montana colors :)
[16:30] <smarter> Some update on the kwallet-support-in-arora stuff: An effort to create a fd.o spec for keyrings(called "Secrets") from KWallet and Gnome-Keyring developers was just brought back to life. I read the spec, and posted a proposal for "secrets"-handling in Web Browsers, we'll see where that goes
[16:31] <smarter> The spec: http://www.gnome.org/~stefw/secrets/html/ The mailing-list: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/authentication/ My proposal: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/authentication/2009-July/000025.html
[16:31] <rgreening> kool
[16:32] <smarter> I feel like I've done enough work for today :P
[16:32]  * smarter goes read some mangas
[16:35] <seele> smarter: what do you follow?
[16:35]  * seele has been reading bleach and naruto lately
[16:35] <smarter> A friend of mine brought me some Full Metal Alchemist recently, so I'm reading that
[16:36] <seele> onemanga.com
[16:36] <seele> don't buy manga, fansubs are better translations and imports are overpriced
[16:36] <agateau> Riddell: I have patchsets for kdelibs and kdebase to implement support for fd.o notification spec
[16:36] <smarter> nice
[16:37] <smarter> but I still like reading on paper :)
[16:37] <seele> hehe
[16:37] <agateau> Riddell: the best way for me to get them packaged is to create a bzr branch for them, right?
[16:37] <seele> i read so much manga that i tend to read western comics backwards
[16:37] <smarter> :D
[16:40] <Riddell> smarter: where does arora keep its bookmarks?
[16:40] <Riddell> agateau: yes branch our packaging
[16:40] <Riddell> lp:~kubuntu-members/kdelibs/ubuntu
[16:40] <Riddell> put in debian/patches edit debian/patches/series  run dch -i
[16:41] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[16:41] <Riddell> lp:~kubuntu-members/kdebase-workspace/ubuntu
[16:43] <ScottK> agateau and Riddell: I would like to wait for us to upload until after it's accepted in KDE trunk.
[16:43] <smarter> Riddell: ~/.local/share/data/Arora/bookmarks.xbel
[16:43] <agateau> ScottK: sure
[16:44] <agateau> ScottK: I announced the patches on kde-core-devel, saying they had already been reviewed at GCDS and would be committed tomorrow unless someone objects
[16:44] <ScottK> agateau: I saw that.
[16:44]  * ScottK didn't see objection yet, so it seems good.
[16:45] <agateau> ScottK: given my (lack of) bandwidth, starting to create the package right now is a good idea anyway
[16:45] <ScottK> agateau: Sure thing.  You can even push the branch.  We just don't merge/upload until after you commit to kde svn.
[16:46] <agateau> ScottK: oh ok
[16:47] <Riddell> smarter: do you know if our debian/patches/kubuntu_01_google_lucky.diff patch got merged into arora?
[16:47] <smarter> didn't even know we had that patch :p
[16:47] <smarter> I know google lucky was added to the default search engine list recently
[16:48] <agateau> ScottK: Riddell: Is it supposed to work if i put the debian/ dirs I got from bzr inside a KDE4.3 upstream checkout?
[16:48] <Riddell> agateau: yes, then run `debuild` to build it
[16:49] <Riddell> although it'll break if any installed files have been removed since the last package version
[16:49] <agateau> Riddell: ok thanks, I guess I have to put the debian/ dirs in subdirs for kdebase
[16:49] <Riddell> also kdebase-workspace is weird because it's split differently from upstream svn
[16:49]  * agateau needs to patch kdebase-workspace and kdebase-runtime
[16:52] <smarter> Riddell: the "search with $engine if the url doesn't seem to exist" isn't in arora yet
[16:53] <smarter> new Arora release in a few days by the way.
[16:53] <Riddell> agateau: yes in the subdirs it is
[16:53] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[16:53] <Riddell> smarter: should it be in do you know?
[16:54] <smarter> haven't tested recently(I've some problems with QtWebKit) but I don't think so
[17:01]  * seele pokes everyone with the papercuts email she sent last night
[17:01] <seele> any volunteers?
[17:01] <seele> *poke* *poke*
[17:03]  * agateau pretends he did not feel any poke
[17:03] <agateau> :)
[17:16] <maco> papercuts email?
[17:18] <seele> to kubuntu-devel
[17:18] <seele> listing papercuts and looking for volunteers to fix them
[17:53] <seele> Nightrose: what is the purpose of community.kde.org? for projects or for users?
[17:55] <_Sime> does fixing the non-standard plasmoid resizing in plasma count as a papercut?
[17:57] <seele> if it improves the user experience, probably
[17:57] <seele> i think there was one that fixed a clipped dialog
[17:59] <ScottK> With any luck I'll be pushing a git snapshot of quassel to my PPA soonish.
[18:01] <_Sime> seele: I've been dying to ask this for a while. You're an expert. What is your opinion about the weird resizing for plasmoids?
[18:07] <seele> _Sime: if i could code, i would do it a different way. but since i don't code, i usually keep my comments to myself when it comes to plasma
[18:07]  * seele has been repeatedly asked "Show me the code" when they know very well what her role in development is
[18:08] <maco> you mean the "must maintain aspect ratio" thing?
[18:08] <maco> for the desktop folder view thingy...i dont think it makes sense
[18:09] <seele> just the silly way you have to click on the square to resize anything, etc.
[18:09] <seele> maybe there is a technical reason why you can't use edge resizers like in kwin
[18:09] <_Sime> I think that the devs need to better appreciate what your role in development is.
[18:09]  * seele shrugs
[18:09] <_Sime> I mean. You *are* an expert on this.
[18:09] <maco> hehe its like how you can only resize windows on osx from bottom right
[18:09] <seele> its just a few devs in particular. there are hundreds of other developers i can work with just fine
[18:10] <maco> except that its like holding shift down at the same time >< (no idea if shift does that in osx,but think of shift when resizing images in OOo writer)
[18:10] <seele> i can't please everyone and i'm not going to waste my time fighting
[18:10] <seele> maco: shift for maintaining aspect ratio you mean?
[18:10] <maco> yes
[18:10] <_Sime> I've read enough Interaction books (About Face is great) to know when to shut up and be a coder. ;)
[18:11] <rgreening> _Sime: did pyqt get updated?
[18:11] <_Sime> rgreening: yes, 4.5.2 is out and awaiting packaging.
[18:11] <_Sime> rgreening: I guess
[18:11] <rgreening> ah... JontheEchidna, feel like updating pyqt?
[18:11] <_Sime> seele: there is no techical reason for not doing it.
[18:13]  * JontheEchidna has a few things he needs to do
[18:13] <Nightrose> seele: for projects - but I am still waiting for some things from danimo before properly introducing it
[18:13] <Nightrose> will do so as soon as he's back from vacation
[18:14] <Nightrose> seele: what do you need it for?
[18:14]  * ScottK thinks rgreening should do it to get over his embarassment at not getting evand to upload usb-creator yet.
[18:14] <ScottK> ;-)
[18:15]  * rgreening thinks he's busy learning KVM, OpenAIS, dbrd, ocfs2, etc...
[18:15] <Riddell> _Sime, JontheEchidna, rgreening: I have pyqt compiling away here now
[18:15] <rgreening> Riddell: awesome........
[18:16]  * rgreening is off the hook
[18:16] <rgreening> ;>
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> lol
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> :3
[18:16] <_Sime> Riddell: did you have fun out on the water?
[18:16] <Riddell> I also have 92 language packs(!)
[18:16] <Riddell> _Sime: mostly I was in the water :)
[18:16] <Riddell> being a course in rescues
[18:16]  * JontheEchidna thinks he knows who will be the top uploader for karmic^
[18:17] <maco> youre a lifeguard?
[18:17] <Riddell> maco: canoeist
[18:17] <maco> doesnt your kilt kinda tangle you up?
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> is Ubuntu top uploadersamic yet?
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> blah, X dropped a crapton of key events
[18:17] <JontheEchidna> is Ubuntu top uploaders up for kamic yet?
[18:18] <maco> X is *constantly* missing key events for me
[18:18] <Riddell> maco: :)
[18:18] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Not last I checked.
[18:19] <seele> Nightrose: someone is telling me that the Usability site should be hosted on community.kde.org instead of techbase.kde.org
[18:19] <seele> which i think is inappropriate.. usability is for developers and all of the projects are on techbase
[18:20]  * ScottK thinks that sounds right.
[18:20] <maco> its not the users that need to be taught about it
[18:21] <maco> well...except the users like me who go "what? whats wrong with a window manager written in and configured in pure haskell?"
[18:21] <maco> but i keep drifting further away from normal-user all the time, so....
[18:21] <Nightrose> seele: well the plan is to move all projects stuff (including developer related things) away from techbase
[18:22] <Nightrose> so basically everything under /porjects
[18:22] <Nightrose> *projects
[18:22] <seele> oh
[18:22] <Nightrose> but it's a little premature just yet
[18:22] <seele> so would the HIG stay at techbase but all of the other usability stuff be at community?
[18:22] <Nightrose> as i said i need to discuss a few more things with danimo
[18:22]  * seele is confused
[18:23] <Nightrose> techbase will be our outside facing dev docu
[18:23] <Nightrose> so for 3rd party developers and so on
[18:23] <Nightrose> community.kde.org will be a playground for techbase and a place for the community to organise things
[18:23] <Nightrose> like store meeting minutes
[18:23] <Nightrose> plan events
[18:24] <Nightrose> there will be a better explanation once everything is set up
[18:24] <Nightrose> so for now continue to use techbase
[18:25] <Nightrose> we'll take care of the moving of /Projects when danimo is back
[18:26] <Nightrose> and tell whoever told you to use community.kde.org that it is not ready just yet
[18:26] <Nightrose> and yea there is no plan to move the usability team out of development stuff :)
[18:30] <seele> well i asked to redirect usability.kde.org to techbase and they said to use community
[18:30] <seele> so i was confused
[18:33] <Nightrose> ahh ok
[18:33] <Nightrose> yea it's a little early for that
[18:34] <Nightrose> but hopefully in a few days
[19:21] <ryanakca> Why does akonadi-server depend on mysql-server-core-5.0 instead of mysql-server-core-5.0 | mysql-server-core-5.1 ?
[19:22] <ScottK> ryanakca: Because 5.0 is in Main and if you allow both very confusing things can happen.
[19:31] <ryanakca> Ah :)
[19:51] <ScottK> maco: I'm working on quassel stuff again.  Did you ever give your patch about action persistence to Sput?
[19:56] <maco> patch?
[19:56] <maco> what i gave you was a backport from what sput's got in quassel
[19:57] <maco> in trunk that wasnt in jaunty
[19:57] <maco> though...i forget what it did now
[19:57] <maco> ScottK, ^
[19:58]  * apachelogger hugs rickspencer3 and sends over a whole container with cookies
[19:59] <rickspencer3> apach
[19:59] <rickspencer3> hi
[20:00] <apachelogger> hullos
[20:00] <rickspencer3> apachelogger: what happened to hsitter?
[20:00] <apachelogger> bzr revert ;-)
[20:00] <rickspencer3> lol
[20:00] <apachelogger> apparently people didn't like it
[20:00] <rickspencer3> so I take it your friends made it back from Desktop Summit?
[20:02] <apachelogger> rickspencer3: yus, worked out very well :)
[20:02] <rickspencer3> sweet
[20:02] <rickspencer3> too bad you couldn't make it to DS, though
[20:02] <rickspencer3> was fun
[20:03] <ScottK> maco: OK.  Well if it was just a backport from trunk, then I guess I won't worry about it for Karmic.  Thanks.
[20:03] <apachelogger> rickspencer3: so I have been told, I suppose attending this kind of stuff should be easier once I am a student
[20:04] <ScottK> apachelogger: That or after Canonical starts sponsoring community people to such things.
[20:04] <apachelogger> *nod*
[20:04] <maco> ScottK, i think what i gave you was to fix parsing of notifications. it was a cherrypick from trunk because was broken in jaunty
[20:04] <apachelogger> or do more upstream contirbution and get sponsored by KDE ;-)
[20:04] <ScottK> yeah
[20:05] <ScottK> maco: OK.  It seems to work here, but I've lost track of what version I have installed.
[20:10] <seaLne> did anyone else have problems installing updates today? i used kpackagekit to do the upgrade and it never gave any warnings when i came back to it it looked finished so after doing somethings i rebooted and couldn't login to kde, from console i apt-get -f install and noticed it continuing to install upstart which had been one of teh packages to be upgraded, struggling to think of anymore details that could actually make abug report out of it
[20:11] <Quintasan> umm anyone here uses samba default config? I need values for Workgroup, NetBIOS name and the server name fields
[20:28] <maco> Quintasan, wouldnt that be someting to ask your net admin?
[20:29] <Quintasan> maco: I'm my net admin :P I'm trying to figure why my shares suddenly disappeared from windows computer and I cant access them
[20:29] <maco> oh
[20:29] <Quintasan> last thing I did was changing the NetBIOS name and Workgroup
[20:29] <Quintasan> s/Workgroup/Server\ name/
[20:29] <maco> maybe you changed them to not-what-your-win-machine-uses?
[20:29] <maco> by the way, have you heard of etckeeper?
[20:30] <maco> could prevent future situations like this
[20:30] <Quintasan> Workgroup is okay, server name looks good, dunno but NetBIOS
[20:30] <Quintasan> hmm
[20:30] <Quintasan> let me get it first :P
[20:31] <maco> version control for /etc
[20:32] <maco> so when you do things like this, you hit the big red undo button
[20:32]  * ScottK actually got the kpackagekit notification today.
[20:32] <maco> (note: big red undo button sold separately. git & bzr revert are included however)
[20:32] <ScottK> That almost never happens.
[20:33] <Quintasan> maco: if etckeeper is red button then it looks like I smashed whole control panel :P
[20:33]  * Quintasan never got notfication from packagekit
[20:34] <Quintasan> That's why I want shaman 2 in kamic :P
[20:36] <maco> i sometimes get kpackagekit notifications
[20:36] <maco> or rather, see the icon for it, then switch to desktop 9 and click where the tray says i have notifications waiting
[20:36] <maco> i have no idea why notifications only show on desktop 9
[20:37] <Quintasan> wait
[20:37] <Quintasan> what?
[20:37] <Quintasan> you have 9 desktops?
[20:42] <maco> yes
[20:44] <Quintasan> hmm
[20:44] <Quintasan> maybe I should give it a try
[20:44] <Quintasan> I keep all windows on one desktop :O
[20:50] <ScottK> NCommander: So 10 hours isn't enough, what now? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/4.5.2-0ubuntu1/+build/1097116/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-armel.qt4-x11_4.5.2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[20:52] <NCommander> ScottK, well, it seems we're dealing with a possible red-hearing
[20:53] <NCommander> ScottK, (w.r.t. to lzma, I'm currently running a few more test builds to work on it)
[20:53] <NCommander> ScottK, this is one of my priorities
[20:53] <ScottK> OK
[21:15] <apachelogger> as a last option we can always turn off lzma if arch is arm
[21:27] <DreadKnight> great. latest updates broke my install
[21:48] <seele> who was asking about a kubuntu meeting earlier this morning?
[21:53] <maco> seele, yikes
[21:54] <seele> maco: ?
[21:54] <maco> you havent gotten the email yet?
[21:54]  * seele checks
[21:55]  * DreadKnight *cough* latest updates broke my install
[21:56] <seele> hmm
[21:57]  * seele has some words
[21:59] <maco> i don't have the impression that you fully appreciate the effects of the function whose naming you are trying to change. let me propose a few alternatives: shoot down, blow away, nuke. or maybe you prefer references to forceful termination of life? how about kill, slay, snuff? or maybe let's just stay with abort, how would that be?
[21:59] <maco> ^^^ what he said
[21:59] <maco> (quassel just ate my cpu)
[21:59] <seele> yeah, i see that
[22:17] <ScottK> DreadKnight: We feel your pain, but without specifics it's really hard to  comment.
[22:18] <ScottK> NCommander: Looks like my Quassel test builds are hung up in the PPA buildds.  Any chance you could pry them loose?
[22:18] <DreadKnight> toshiba m400 portege... intel gma 945... after pc boots, i get only a black screen with an underscore in the upper left corner scottK
[22:18] <ScottK> DreadKnight: What about if you use the previous kernel?
[22:18] <DreadKnight> i tried many kernels
[22:19] <DreadKnight> same results
[22:19] <ScottK> DreadKnight: OK.  How about nomodeset in your boot options?
[22:19] <DreadKnight> hm
[22:19] <DreadKnight> lemme see about that..
[22:20] <DreadKnight> scottK im at grub, how do i do that exactly?
[22:21] <DreadKnight> (just to make sure i do things properly)
[22:21] <ScottK> DreadKnight: in the kernel boot parameters add nomodeset at the end of the line.
[22:21] <ScottK> DreadKnight: Like kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-13-generic root=UUID=55f34c0a-694c-4a95-94c4-6a1f80d6c2f0 ro quiet splash nomodeset
[22:22] <DreadKnight> mhm
[22:22] <ScottK> I'm on Jaunty at the moment, so your will be slightly different.
[22:22] <DreadKnight> no worries, i get the idea.. let's see now.
[22:23] <DreadKnight> yey
[22:23] <DreadKnight> sort of
[22:23] <DreadKnight> i get X at least
[22:24] <ScottK> DreadKnight: Progress.
[22:24] <DreadKnight> "welcome to localhost.localdomain"
[22:24] <DreadKnight> when i try to boot, i get back to x
[22:24] <ScottK> It's not a KDE specific issue then, so #ubuntu+1 is probably your best bet for further support.
[22:24] <DreadKnight> im on the latest kernel, which had issues with my video card
[22:24] <DreadKnight> mhm
[22:25] <ScottK> Not much we can help with on that here.  There is also #ubuntu-x
[22:27] <DreadKnight> thanks scottK :)
[22:33] <DreadKnight> bah... *flips a coin... mint or sabayon..*
[22:36] <ScottK> maco: I'd write back "Thanks for suggesting alternatives, but exit seems best".
[22:38] <maco> ScottK, seele just started yelling at him in #kde-devel then people started debating what phrasing would be best and should there be explanatory text that youll lose your unsaved work etc.
[22:39] <ScottK> maco: OK.
[22:39] <ScottK> NCommander: Dunno if you fixed my PPA problem (if you did thanks), but the build finally finished.
[22:40] <ScottK> New quassel installing.  Brb if it goes well.
[22:40] <maco> :( there are no icons in OOo
[22:40] <maco> its all text
[22:40] <maco> i cant find the "new slide button"
[22:42] <ScottK> OK.  Ther world didn't immediately esplode.
[22:42] <ScottK> Ther/The
[22:42] <ScottK> seele: Current quassel git snapshot in my PPA for Jaunty and Karmic.
[22:43] <ScottK> At least if you're on i386.  amd64 isn't built yet.
[22:47] <maco> argh the images to show what slide layout youre going for are gone -_-
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> We're gonna get bug 400,000 in a few hours
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> or maybe minutes