[02:58] <wgrant> sinzui: I don't think bug #397398 is a duplicate of the usual one - in that bug the user wanted it to be in Russia, but the timezone is wrong.
[02:58] <ubot3> Malone bug 397398 in launchpad-registry "Wrong user timezone (Saratov) (dup-of: 387738)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397398
[02:58] <ubot3> Malone bug 387738 in launchpad-registry "Launchpad refuses to believe that I don't live in Russia, near the Kazakhstan border." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387738
[02:59] <sinzui> wgrant: I think it is because smara is were others were ending up
[02:59] <wgrant> sinzui: Ah.
[03:00] <sinzui> However we did just change the pytz lib, I should double check the date. There were two days of wierdness during the transition
[03:08] <sinzui> I wonder if people will complain is I create the tag "ml-archive-sucks"
[03:10] <lifeless> sinzui: mars says to talk to you about +series
[03:10] <sinzui> yes
[03:10] <lifeless> this is me, talking to you:)
[03:10] <lifeless> I've filed a bug
[03:10] <lifeless> I don't mean to be overly negative, but its nearly unusable at the moment.
[03:11] <sinzui> Wow for me it went from a wasted click to at least a report that something is happening
[03:11] <lifeless> wasted click?
[03:12] <lifeless> we may have very different understandings of what I'm intending to ask about
[03:12] <sinzui> Any time I was taken to a series page, I had to find a link to a page that would let me perform an action or learn about what was happening. The series page was not a good tool.
[03:12] <sinzui> How can I make the series page a good tool?
[03:12] <wgrant> sinzui: I would love a ml-archive-sucks tag, if it means the archives might eventually be less utterly sucky.
[03:13] <lifeless> so there are two things, both similar. Perhaps I should file two bugs
[03:13] <lifeless> firstly, can I ask you to have a look at
[03:13] <lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/
[03:13] <lifeless> there is a funny stick figure about half way down labelled 'bzr.dev'
[03:14] <sinzui> oh yes the timeline that never shows more than one line of development
[03:15] <sinzui> It gets bigger in the new page design
[03:15] <wgrant> lifeless: Bug #398705?
[03:15] <ubot3> Malone bug 398705 in launchpad-registry "Unobvious that timeline graph is scrollable" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/398705
[03:16] <lifeless> I know that its scrollable. its just _painful_ to scroll on a thumbpad
[03:16] <sinzui> I asked edwin to try putting borders on it that beuno would like
[03:16] <lifeless> on a 125x125 dpi screen
[03:16] <lifeless> click, drag about an inch
[03:16] <lifeless> release go back, repeat
[03:16] <lifeless> personally, I'd much rather not have to scroll at all
[03:16] <sinzui> That sucks
[03:17] <lifeless> that list of series seems truncated anyway, so why not truncate a little more and at the same time make the canvas taller
[03:17] <lifeless> vertical space is cheap
[03:19] <sinzui> Well it will be taller. I think we need to convey that the widget is a viewport
[03:20] <lifeless> should I file a bug about this aspect? I haven't so far
[03:21] <sinzui> definitely!
[03:21] <sinzui> Edwin is work on a bug to improve the UI. As asked edwin to take wgrant's bug into consideration.
[03:22] <lifeless> bug filed
[03:22] <lifeless> secondly
[03:22] <sinzui> thanks
[03:22] <lifeless> have a look at https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+series
[03:23] <lifeless> remember - trackpad user
[03:23] <lifeless> I do have cheap vertical scrolling (of the whole page)
[03:23] <sinzui> ha ha
[03:23] <lifeless> my window is about 900 pixels wide
[03:23] <sinzui> I will show that to Edwin and Martin
[03:24] <sinzui> mine is 800
[03:24] <wgrant> Does that one show inactive milestones too?
[03:24] <wgrant> The one on +index doesn't.
[03:25] <sinzui> This one show obsolete series at 50% opacity
[03:26] <sinzui> I think I need to restart the discussion about sane zoom on load. I seeing this makes me think I was right
[03:26] <lifeless> I'd like to note that *I don't care about the graph*
[03:27] <lifeless> it can jump off a cliff and I'll never regret its passing
[03:27]  * _thumper_ wonders if the william grant showing up on my Facebook suggestions is wgrant
[03:27] <sinzui> lifeless: I can create a [X] Display timelines check box. That is how I got the maps off my pages
[03:27] <wgrant> thumper: Could be. I have a few Launchpadders.
[03:27] <lifeless> sinzui: I love timelines. That isn't a timeline :)
[03:28] <lifeless> sinzui: or should I say, I love vertically presented regular text and markup timelines
[03:28] <sinzui> understood
[03:28] <thumper> wgrant: University of Melbourne '10
[03:28] <thumper> ?
[03:28] <wgrant> thumper: That would be me indeed.
[03:28] <lifeless> ok, so two bugs filed. Let me know if you need more details on either.
[03:28] <thumper> :)
[03:29] <wgrant> The current one also isn't a timeline, since it doesn't show things relative to time.
[03:29] <wgrant> Milestones, releases and series are equally spaced.
[03:29] <wgrant> With no regard to time.
[03:29] <wgrant> So bzr.dev seems to have all the latest milestones.
[03:30] <sinzui> wgrant: and you can image why we did that given bzr's series
[03:31] <wgrant> sinzui: If everything was positioned by time, it could be a very wide but fairly short graph that was able to be zoomed sanely.
[03:33] <sinzui> oh, kfogel filed one of the the ml-archive bugs. I'm definitely using the new tag
[03:34] <wgrant> I've been wondering for a while if you've been wanting to minimise adoption of LP mailing lists.
[03:34] <wgrant> The archives are... suboptimal.
[03:34] <wgrant> Non-members cannot subscribe.
[03:34] <sinzui> wgrant: \o/
[03:35] <wgrant> Message acceptance policies are unconfigurable.
[03:35] <wgrant> Subjects are mangled.
[03:35] <wgrant> (unconfigurably)
[03:35] <sinzui> That is one of my points why it sucks, along with it does not integrate lp objects so I cannot link in and out of it
[03:35] <wgrant> They could easily be very awesome, but they are not!
[03:36] <sinzui> I cannot forward a message to my inbox so that I can reply (even if I am not a member of the list because I have good standing)
[03:36] <wgrant> This standing thing also isn't documented anywhere except bugs, is it?
[03:37] <sinzui> wgrant: We were going to create our own, or improve pipermail to rock. but we had two days, so we used MHonarc
[03:38] <wgrant> sinzui: But MHonarc can do better than that...
[03:38] <sinzui> kfogel: It can.
[03:39] <sinzui> wgrant: kfogel looked into making some improvement. It can do better.
[03:39] <wgrant> sinzui: This is good.
[03:39] <wgrant> The lp-users archives are pretty terrible to use.
[03:40] <wgrant> What is changing in the 3.0 UI?
[03:41] <sinzui> We are reintroducing side portlets to emphasise activity. There are not many concrete examples of this
[03:41] <sinzui> We want to show that things are happening on launchpad, commits, messages, subscribers, changes. And the side portlets can have actions that create these activities
[03:42] <wgrant> But didn't you just try to kill all of the portlets?
[03:42] <wgrant> Ah, good. That is one area in which Launchpad is really lacking.
[03:42] <sinzui> We did, beuno likes them. He thinks they failed because they did not have strong rules of what they could contain or set users expectation about what they could do
[03:43] <sinzui> links are still moving into the page
[03:43] <sinzui> We are putting all the developers on updating all the pages to ensure we don't have any more 0, 1, and 2 ui pages left
[03:45] <sinzui> wgrant: We want to improve the breadcrumbs and tabs, but we do not have any design and sope set for that yet. I think many pages will look a lot like the 2.0 pages.
[03:46] <wgrant> Even completing the 2.0 UI would make things much better...
[03:46] <wgrant> It's all pretty inconsistent now.
[03:47] <sinzui> yep. I need to send an email asking for consistent heading/title rules.
[04:24] <wgrant> Since you're moving launchpad-loggerhead into the launchpad tree, are you not removing codehosting at all?
[04:35] <kfogel> wgrant: there's a bug and a branch for the ml improvements
[04:35] <kfogel> when I get off the phone I'll find the bug number
[19:45] <joey> hey matsubara-lunch, maybe you might get wgrant to review https://dev.launchpad.net/BugTriage/Draft and provide input?
[19:46] <joey> Ursinha probably should have a run through too if she hasn't already
[19:46]  * Ursinha looks
[20:26] <matsubara> good idea joey
[20:26] <joey> matsubara: only in that he's had some recent experience :-)
[20:27] <joey> matsubara: you did good work on both the original and now this version so... might as well share!