neurrebase system 64%00:28
neurrebeen forever00:28
neurreConfigurring ca-certificates...00:28
neurrestill 62%00:56
neurreyeah it took a while01:38
royuHi all04:48
royuCan somebody tell me, please, is there some significant difference between ARM and ARMEL ?04:49
loolamitk: You might have to enable stuff in fconfig to have networking available09:22
amitklool: ok09:24
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
=== gletelli__ is now known as gletelli
neuresuihkulokki, ping12:22
neurei feel like i want some arm box myself12:54
ogradont ge ARM11 though :)12:55
neurewhat should i get?12:56
neurewhats the matter with arm11?12:56
ograbeagleboard should be good for a start12:56
ograwe will only support ARMv6/v7 in the future arm11 is ARMv512:56
neurei thought qemu was only ARMv5 though?12:57
ograno, it can support cortex-a8 (ARMv7) its just that there is no kernel for it12:58
ograthere is a hack for beagleboard support, google for it :)12:58
ograand there is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2009-May/002485.html12:58
=== cbrake_away is now known as cbrake
neurei wonder if someone has prebuilt qemu, realview rfs also13:02
neurekernel is pointed there..13:02
neurei trid rootfilesystemfrom scracth13:21
neurewell it didn't give me network in qemu :/13:21
ograduring build ?13:21
neureafter build13:21
ograor do you mean the resultin image13:21
neureresulting image13:21
ograwell, you need to configure it in the image13:22
neuresudo ifconfig only shows lo13:22
ogra /etc/netwrok/interfaces13:22
ograah, well, manually do the following:13:22
ograsudo ifconfig eth0 up13:22
ograsudo dhclient eth013:23
ograif you configure it in /etc/netwrok/interfaces it will come up automatically on boot13:24
neurethat helped13:25
neuremy linux skills are rusty13:25
neurei tried sudo ifup eth013:25
neureit complained something funny :D13:25
ograifup looks in /etc/network/interfaces for an entry ;)13:25
neurewhat does eth0 line there look like?13:27
neureopenssh-server package is a bit funny13:30
neurei dont understand why it needs all that libx* stuff13:30
neureoh way, for X11 forwarding_13:30
neuremaybe i should have used dropbear instead13:33
neurei dont seem to be able to ssh to the qemu server though13:55
neurei installed openssh-server13:55
neureaccording to ifconfig the qemu is
neurebut i can not connect to that from host13:56
ograyes, but thats internal13:56
neureinternal to.. qemu_13:56
ograsomeone added a reciepe for setting up network forwarding to the wikipage13:56
neurewhere is the wikipage?)13:57
ogra /topic :)13:58
neurecant see :(13:59
neurei mean anything about network14:00
neurei was looking at the wrong page :D14:00
neurethat bridge thing didnt quite work14:04
neuresudo ifup br014:04
neureadd bridge failed: Package not installed14:04
neureand more14:04
loolInstall bridge-tools14:05
loolSorry bridge-utils14:05
neurei misread the instructions14:05
ograand please correct the wiki if thats not mentioned there14:05
neurei was doing the host stuff inside qemu :D14:05
neuremy host is windows..14:05
* ogra wonders if his rootstock test with cortex-a8 just hangs or is simply slow14:07
ograi probably shouldnt hide kernel messages14:08
neureprobably not :D14:08
ograoh ! it moved14:08
neurei right client on bat file to edit the script to lauch qemu and windows claims that "Open File - Security Warning. The publisher could not be verified. Are you sure you want to run this software? Name: ubuntu_run.bat ..."14:10
neureah that was because i edited the file on network drive :D14:11
neurewrong one14:11
ubot4Factoid 'o' not found14:14
rjune_wrkoh yeah, wrong room14:15
rjune_wrkHOw goes it?14:15
ograbusy working on rootstock14:19
neureoh well14:22
neurei can use -redir to get ssh connection to host14:22
neureis it normal to get packages cannot be authenticated error?14:23
neuregdb causes at least14:23
* ogra grins ... i just googled for project rootstock ... second hit after the LP page: "PROJECT: Rootstock Effects on Mango Productivity"14:24
ograneure, sudo apt-get update14:24
ograyour packagelist in the image is likely outdated14:25
neurefunny i thought i already did apt-get update14:25
neureoh dear14:26
neurei installed ubuntu arm14:26
neurein qemu14:26
neurei tried netinstall and rootfsfromscratch14:26
ogracall it rootstock :) less typing :)14:26
neuredoes it have a new name?)14:27
ogra(and the new name for it)14:27
neurewell the thing is.. qemu doesnt multithread very well :/14:27
neuresame issue with all linux i've tried so far.. if i create a new thread which busyloops like for(;;), pthread_create / clone never returns :(14:28
neurein fact, the system hangs14:28
neureon some setups, i can break the offending program, but on this ubuntu, i cant do anything14:28
ograwell i think lool tried it yesterday and it worked on HW14:29
neureso i think its some funny thing with QEMU14:29
neurewhich is bad, because i need to get it work in QEMU14:30
ograwell, it might even work in qemu if its not running under windows14:30
ograwho knows14:30
neurei've tried that too14:30
ograah, so you know :)14:30
neuredidn't work any better in linux :/14:30
neurewell i tried in in VMWare which was running on top of windows..14:31
neureand i only used qemu-system-arm14:31
suihkulokkineure: which compiler are you using to test your threading testcase?14:32
neuremy qemu just hang so i cant check the version14:32
neure4.3 i think14:32
neuresuihkulokki, i'd really like to know which kernel and rfs you are using14:32
suihkulokkia gcc from the same distro?14:32
suihkulokkithat was just debian lenny armel14:33
neurei tried with debian lenny arm14:33
neurei tried with debian lenny armel14:33
neurei tried with ubuntu armel14:33
neurewith their own kernels and packages14:33
neureand they all behave more or less the same14:34
neureon lenny i was able to break the offending thread14:34
neureand if i run with gdb, it worked14:34
neureon ubuntu i only did first try with gdb14:34
neurei wasnt able to break14:34
neurei also tried in windows qemu, and linux qemu (althought that linux run inside vmware on top of windows)14:35
neureand i have absolutely no clue what is causing this :(14:36
neureand i'm running out of things to try :/14:42
=== bjf is now known as bjf-afk
=== bjf-afk is now known as bjf
Sarvatt_is there a specific platform the arm port is designed around right now or is it targetting hardware that isnt out yet? wondering what options I have right now besides a beagleboard.. I'm guessing sheeva wont be supported much longer in karmic when things move up to armv6+?17:07
=== Sarvatt_ is now known as Sarvatt
neureSarvatt, the targets are listed on the qemu page17:11
neurethis is ubuntu :)17:11
neurewrong #17:11
ograSarvatt, btw, rootstock is fixed, that your image ended up in /tmp was a bug17:20
Sarvattohh thank you ogra17:21
loolmcasadevall, ogra: So on these lzma slowness thing17:23
* ogra is just working on cortex-a8 support for the karmic version :)17:23
loolmcasadevall, ogra: Did we benchmark it/profile it?17:23
ogralool, i thought mcasadevall did17:23
loolIt might be that there's a bug in lzma simply; unaligned access or something17:23
mcasadevalllool, it works (slowly) on my Babbage boards17:24
Sarvattheres my log if it helps anything http://sarvatt.com/downloads/rootstock-200907121533.log.txt17:24
mcasadevalllool, and I fed a few test files through lzma -9 on rimu, no issue17:24
mcasadevallexpect speed17:24
loolmcasadevall: I had in mind that perhaps lack of VFP or unaligned accesses could slow it down17:24
mcasadevalllool, VFP didn't make a difference17:24
ogralool, in any case if the majority of packages makes actual use of the 10h timeout thats not feasable17:24
loolmcasadevall: You rebuilt it with softfp?17:24
mcasadevalllool, yeah17:24
mcasadevalllool, there are no floats in the code17:25
loolmcasadevall: Do you think it could be unaligned access?17:25
mcasadevalllool, the buildds are set to mode 0: do nothing17:25
mcasadevallunaligned access would cause a sigill17:25
loolmcasadevall: Perhaps you could oprofile it?  or gprof, dunno what exposes the issue best17:25
loolmcasadevall: Well that depends on the system setup AFAIK17:25
loolAlso v7 handles unaligned accesses17:25
mcasadevalllool, the buildds are v517:25
ograSarvatt, oh, thats a different issue but its fixed since some days ... the reboot command was missing because new upstart didnt build17:25
mcasadevalland rimu is setup the same way as the buildds17:26
loolmcasadevall: Oh really?  I didn't know that  :)17:26
mcasadevalllool, :-)17:26
loolI wouldn't have imaginated we're running v5 buildds really  :)17:26
mcasadevallOk, stupid point17:26
* mcasadevall dons the dunce cap17:26
mcasadevalllool, on my tests, compressing a 13MB tar file takes 48 seconds with lzma -917:27
mcasadevallBut that doesn't max out the RAM17:27
mcasadevallyou run into problems when compressing with lzma on 512MB17:27
mcasadevalllool, then the system starts paging out17:27
Sarvattcan you change the compression level on an arch specific basis for dpkg-builddeb globally?17:27
loolPerhaps we can configure lzma in a less expensive mode where it uses less memory?17:27
mcasadevalllool, you can guess what happens next17:27
* ogra has a cortex-a8 build with all features we need for qemu17:27
mcasadevalllool, that was is a possibility17:28
suihkulokkilol, lzma -917:28
mcasadevalllool, I'm not in love w/ it though. lzma in almost any mode is going to guzzle down memory faster than anything else17:28
loolmcasadevall: Could you check how much that helps and if yes how to make that the default on armel?17:28
loolsuihkulokki: It's to run KDE anyway    :-P17:28
* mcasadevall has run KDE on ARM17:28
Sarvatteven just -7 would be half the memory required or less17:28
loolSarvatt: I think that's what we'd want to look into, yes17:28
lool(re: compression level in dpkg-bd)17:29
ograhmm, i thought i saw an rtc patch in lool's patchset ... weird17:29
* mcasadevall grabs dpkg's source17:29
loolI don't see any flag passed to lzma by dpkg-dev stuff though17:30
suihkulokkilzma -9 gives, what, 1% size reduction over lzma -5ish and takes twice as long and multiple times the ram17:30
* mcasadevall is looking now at the dpkg-deb code17:30
loologra: Just enabling the RTC kernel CONFIG_ I guess?17:30
ogralool, yeah17:31
ograbut it doesnt seem to work, it moans on shutdown17:31
ograbut ...17:31
ogracat /proc/cpuinfo |grep Processor17:31
ograProcessor: ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)17:31
* ogra hugs qemu17:31
* neure curses qemu17:32
ograinotify and tcp.syncookies added17:32
ograas well as sysfs deprecated dropped17:32
neureapparently it messes up guest scheduling when run in windows :(17:32
neuredue to crappy timers17:32
loolThe default compression in lzma is 717:32
mcasadevalllool, and that's what we use17:33
mcasadevallwe don't pass -9 on lzma17:33
* mcasadevall just checked the source17:33
loolmcasadevall: I just said that earlier17:33
loolmcasadevall: Could you see what lzma level is acceptable on 512m of RAM?17:33
mcasadevallTBH, I would consider not using lzma at all on that little RAM17:34
ogra-0 :)17:34
loolmcasadevall: Well I find it a bit ugly to patch a bunch of patches not to use lzma, or to patch dpkg-dev to map lzma to something else17:34
loolWhile I find it decent to set the default lzma level in dpkg-dev or in lzma itself to something reasonnable depending on the arch17:35
lools/a bunch of patches/a bunch of packages17:35
mcasadevalllool, well, changing the code in dpkg to remap lzma to bz2 looks simple enough. Its a case switch that needs to be conditionally overridden17:36
mcasadevallI'll see on RAM usage17:36
suihkulokkiforget bz217:36
mcasadevallsuihkulokki, ?17:36
loolmcasadevall: I find it ugly really17:36
looldh_foo --I-want-lzma => you get something else; that's a nono17:37
lool--I-want-lzma-but-I-dont-care-which-compression-pick-it-for-me sounds nicer17:37
suihkulokkimcasadevall: among other things, it's slower to decompress than lzma17:38
mcasadevallsuihkulokki, its not to bad on +1Ghz boards17:38
mcasadevallsuihkulokki, and decompression isn't quite so RAM hungry17:38
mcasadevalllool, well, the other idea I had, depending on how crazy I am, is we could write a distlzma-like program and offload the compression :-)17:39
mcasadevall(probably not something we want to do, but worth throwing the idea around before its shot down)17:39
loolmcasadevall: Situation at hand: packages FTBFS due to a timeout; we don't care about the packages being compressed (we don't use -dbg)17:40
mcasadevalllool, I get the point17:40
suihkulokkimcasadevall: did you read the benchmark link I gave you yesterday?17:40
loolSo I think a light touch and simple change is a better choice than inventing a new tool, integrating it etc.17:40
mcasadevallsuihkulokki, I did, but it didn't give a great overview of RAM usage per notch17:41
* lool loads http://tukaani.org/lzma/benchmarks17:41
mcasadevallWrong benchmark17:41
* mcasadevall had a bunch of google links open to this17:41
loolsuihkulokki: The page underlines the relatively low gain in compression ratio of using higher lzma modes but the high cost in memory17:43
loolSo I think it kind of speaks for changing the default mode of lzma or the default lzma mode which dpkg-dev uses17:43
loolsuihkulokki: Don't you have issues building KDE packages in Debian as a result of this?17:43
suihkulokkilool: I don't think we've gone lzma17:44
mcasadevallthe lzma change is only because we can't fit KDE4 on the CD anymore17:45
loolmcasadevall: So it's 100% Ubuntu specific?17:45
mcasadevalllool, at the moment, I'm not sure if pkg-kde plans to adapt it or not17:45
loolI find it ugly, but it's the KDE folks' decision17:46
loolmcasadevall: So are we in agreement over the proposed changes?17:46
ogralool, mesa seems to use lzma for dbgsym or dbg packages17:46
* ogra isnt sure which17:46
loologra: -dbg17:46
ograright it was one of the two17:46
mcasadevallogra, I think they simply set the dpkg-deb line to build all of them as lzma, and the -dbg just gets compressed. I'm not even sure if you can set per-packaging compression options with the standard rules foo17:47
suihkulokkieven lzma -2/-3 beat bzip2 -9 ratios and doesn't really use much more ram (and compressess faster)17:47
mcasadevalllool, just a matter of determing which -X option we want17:47
ograi think thats the only other package with probs currently on the ftbfs list17:47
ogra(which doesnt mean there arent others)17:47
loolmcasadevall: So you agree we should just change the default compression ratio on armel somewhere?17:47
ogramcasadevall, but other packages arent that huge17:47
mcasadevallogra, when you fighting for every kilobyte on the CD, it makes the difference17:48
suihkulokkiofcourse, to be systematic, one would measure the different levels directly with the problematic -dbg package and pick a level that gives the best compression ratio/ram usage ratio17:48
mcasadevalllool, best cost/effort ratio I can see17:48
mcasadevalllool, we're not as concerned with the image size as everyone else since ARM is .img and not iso17:48
loolmcasadevall: Could you bring this up either with dpkg or lzma upstream or both and see what they think of it?17:48
loolAbout -dbg: sorry folks, I have been misleading: builds timeout when packing these because cdbs packs packages separately, but it's an option which is used on all .debs built by a source which is why it gives space savings on the CD and why it makes the build globally longer17:49
loolIt's not an option passed only to -dbg as I might have implied17:50
mcasadevalllool, er, I can understand lzma upstream, but why dpkg upstream? This is a very ubuntu-specific change we're considering17:50
loolmcasadevall: Don't you think dh_builddeb -Zlzma would behave equally as bad under Debian?17:51
Sarvattmesa built fine on 06-30 in 3 hours and failed to build even after 10 hours starting 07-07.. dpkg was updated between the two to 0.15.2 and they switched dpkg-builddeb to add format=gnu and drop all TAR_OPTIONS, was it using format=posix by default on arm before? thats really a long shot but it seems to me like the lzma problems started after a certain date17:51
mcasadevallsuihkulokki, unless you think such a change it worthwhile for debian-armel?17:51
mcasadevallSarvatt, I didn't look at mesa in depth. I saw the problem crop up w/ KDE packages at first17:52
loolSarvatt: It didn't build on 06-30?! https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/7.5~rc4-1ubuntu1/+build/110000817:53
* mcasadevall needs to rule something out17:53
Sarvattthat was a debian/rules error tjaalton did17:53
Sarvatt1ubuntu2 built fine17:53
loolSarvatt: Indeed it built with lzma recently17:54
mcasadevallThat's strange to say the least17:54
mcasadevallthe lzma package itself hasn't been touched since intrepid17:54
mcasadevallI ruled that out17:54
loolThe TAR_OPTIONS removal was at my request because some users had -z exported in TAR_OPTIONS and were createing source packages with this set17:54
Sarvattthe only change between 1ubuntu2 and 1ubuntu3 was a patch added that only touches the intel driver in mesa that doesnt even get built on arm17:54
loolmcasadevall: Could you try downgrading dpkg-dev and see whether you get a faster lzma again?17:56
loolI'm confused about the change in speed too17:56
mcasadevalllool, I can't reproduce locally17:56
mcasadevalllool, I setup launchpad-buildd on a Babbage board with latest chroots when this issue popped up17:56
mcasadevallThe package build successfully after many hours, and the recent change in KDE was lzma compression17:56
loolmcasadevall: Check with mesa17:57
loolmcasadevall: You have a reference speed of 3 hours in earlier versions17:57
mcasadevalllool, I haven't reproduced that build failure yet though17:57
mcasadevalllet me start that now17:57
loolWhich bumps to more than 14 afterwards17:58
loolSarvatt: Good catch, thanks!17:58
Sarvattdefinitely looks like something in the environment that changed in that case to me17:58
mcasadevalllool, my hardware it slower than the buildds, but if it hangs in the same place after ~5 or so hours, I think we can call it reproduced17:59
mcasadevallIf not, I think we have a bigger problem17:59
* ogra enables preempt for fun on his test kernel17:59
mcasadevalluboot fat reading is very slow18:04
ogradont use fat :)18:04
ogrause ext218:04
ograno idea18:04
ograyou got the hardware, i dont :)18:04
mcasadevalloh bah18:05
mcasadevallI gave the wrong offset18:05
mcasadevallyou need physical addresses in u-boot or BAD THINGS(tm) happen18:05
ograhmm, preempt seems to speed it up18:05
* ogra wonders what the drawback is18:06
ogralool, did you try to enable smp when you played with the v7 kernel ?18:08
* ogra wonders if that would be worth a try18:08
Sarvatti should have just bought a beagleboard a year ago, been holding off because its been sounding like theres going to be better released any time now since november but still cant find anything.. sheevaplug is looking alot better but i'm sure karmic will switch to armv6+ as soon as it gets here :D18:15
Sarvatti thought jaunty was going to be armv7 from the start going by the press releases18:16
ograwe tried to keep jaunty close to debian18:18
ograsince it was our first release and v7 hardware is rare18:18
ograat least the v7 HW we support18:18
* mcasadevall would love to know why u-boot takes 30 seconds to load a kernel image18:20
Sarvattmy efika is begging to be upgraded with something arm :)18:21
ograwhy does /etc/init.d/sendsigs not finish18:24
dirk2I used ARM/RootfsFromScratch from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM to create a rootfs. If I understood correctly, this takes the pre-build binary packages and creates the rootfs from it. Now I wonder how are the armel binary packages created from source? That is, how is Uuntu ARM cross compilation done?18:46
ogranot at all :)18:46
ograthe packages are all build natively18:47
dirk2orga: Native compile?18:47
ograthere are three armel build machines at the bottom18:47
dirk2ah, I see. Any info what hardware is behind this?18:48
ograsome 800MHz 512M boards18:48
ograi dont know the exact SoC names18:49
dirk2uuuhi, ARM @ 800MHz18:49
ograyeah :)18:49
ograwell thats the avreage HW we also target with the distro build18:49
dirk2Is it possible for a user (e.g. me ;) ) to use these machines to compile something?18:50
ograno, sadly not, there is work going on to set up a cloud based buildsystem though18:51
ograbut that will use qemu18:51
ograand should make PPAs possible18:51
ograor something similar to PPAs18:51
dirk2sometihng like OpenSuseBuild System for ARM?18:52
ograsomething like that, yes18:52
dirk2sorry, PPA?18:52
ograwell, and indeed you can upload packages to ubuntu if you like ... through REVU and sponsoring18:52
dirk2ok ;)18:52
dirk2ok, thanks18:53
rjune_wrkogra: are you around?20:49
NCommanderlool, so if this test passes, what is our next step?20:57
NCommander(I had a previous pass with some the KDE packages, so I'm leaning that this will pass too)20:57
loolNCommander: Which test?20:59
loologra: We don't have SMP support in emulated qemu boards20:59
loologra: But yes, I did try this out20:59
loolActually I tried the v6 realview SMP one20:59
loolBut realview is in a poor state of emulation/upstream support in that there's no PCI support in upstream linux and qemu expects one and actually needs one to offer network and SCSI hard disk...21:00
NCommanderlool, building mesa w/ the launchpad-buildd setup21:00
loolNCommander: Well if it's fast, we need to find out why it's not on the buildds; with IS probably21:00
loolNCommander: But I would expect it's slow and we need to find which package changed (e.g. try downgrading dpkg-dev)21:01
ogralool, yeah, i found that out myself ... would also need kernel hacking, SMP is no option with versatile21:01
ograrjune_wrk, whats up ?21:01
* ogra has to go in 5 min, if its important, shot now or never21:02
rjune_wrkogra: can I get you to try something for me?21:02
ogra*shoot even21:02
=== cbrake is now known as cbrake_away

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