=== asac_ is now known as asac
ccheneyhow do you flush your dns cache in ubuntu?00:18
lifelessccheney: what dns cache00:19
ccheneyi thought there was some sort of dns cache at the system level, maybe my problem is actually arp cache instead00:20
BUGabundorestarting networking ?00:20
ccheneymy system can't connect to gtalk claiming no route to host i think due to it trying to connect before i authenticated with AP at the hotel00:21
lifelessthere is an arp cache00:21
lifelessno route to host - you can see your route table by00:21
lifelessip route00:21
lifelessyou can get no route errors two ways00:21
lifelessno route locally00:21
ccheneyyea just pidgin claims it not eg firefox00:21
ccheneyor ssh, etc00:22
lifelessa router somewhere else sending back an ICMP error00:22
BUGabundoccheney: restart pidgin ?00:22
lifelessrouters can do that when they have no route. *or* when they don't want to let the traffic through00:22
ccheneyBUGabundo: it seems to not help restarting pidgin, i'll try rebooting my system to see if it changes00:23
BUGabundoccheney: that's a bit extreme00:23
BUGabundoeven for 10 sec boot systems00:23
BUGabundotry restarting networking00:24
ccheneyhmm even total reboot didn't help :(00:25
* ccheney kicks the hotel00:25
=== pace_t_zulu_ is now known as pace_t_zulu
BUGabundoccheney: mtr it ?00:28
pochuccheney: you should be using empathy anyway ;)00:29
ccheneypochu: i'm using jaunty00:29
ccheneyi can see talk.google.com00:29
BUGabundonot an excusse eheeh00:29
ccheneywith mtr00:29
BUGabundothere is a PPA for empaty trunk00:30
BUGabundohey pochu00:30
BUGabundoccheney: ahhh pidgin updates?00:30
BUGabundocheck for the record on the server tab00:30
ccheneyhmm no pidgin updates available for me, i'm mostly up to date (as of sat night)00:32
ccheneyit was working at the office too, so i think they are just blocking it somehow at the hotel00:32
ccheneyit was working last night though so its a bit weird00:32
* ccheney heads off to dinner, bbl00:33
BUGabundoccheney: try https://imo.im00:33
ccheneyBUGabundo: thanks00:34
* ccheney heads out now to dinner00:36
clearyhi - I hope I've got the right channel for my question, please redirect me if not -02:08
clearyI'm in the process of customising a desktop gnome environment based on jaunty - the customisations need to packaged, and I'd prefer to try and get this more correct than not02:10
clearycurrently, I have replaced the ubuntu-artwork and ubuntu-wallpapers packages, providing modified gconf keys02:11
clearyso that takes care of the various themes and the desktop background02:11
clearyI need to make some fairly drastic changes to the panel though02:11
ScottKThis is not the channel you are looking for.02:12
clearycurrently, the panel layout seems to be controlled from the gnome-panel-data package, which provides two files02:12
cleary/etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries and /usr/share/gconf/defaults/05_panel-default-setup.entries02:13
clearymy panel changes basically mean I remove the top panel and move relevant applets to the bottom panel02:14
clearyso I need to override those default files somehow (without modifying them directly, preferably)02:15
clearyI know I can provide my own 90_foo.entries file in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/02:16
clearyhowever, because I don't plan to use the top panel gconf entry at all, I'm wondering if the 05_...entries file will still create it02:17
clearywhat is the safest way for me to override these setting?02:17
clearyScottK: sorry - completely missed your bit02:17
clearyScottK: got a suggestion where I could go?02:17
clearythe problem is, this stuff seems to be distro specific02:18
ScottKNot particularly, but that's definitlely not development of Ubuntu.02:19
ScottKI think there is an #ubuntu-installer channel.02:19
clearyis there a desktop development focussed channel?02:20
cleary+gnome even02:20
clearynvm, I'll have a look at #ubuntu-installer, and see if there's any relevant debian channels02:23
pamcjwatson: Thanks for the pointers. I am trying to test my merged syslinux package. The Ubuntu (non-Suse: 12-, 13- and 14- ones) gfxboot patches can't apply to the new comboot16 module and upstream doesn't know if they are still relevant. Testing this whole thing is kind of tricky actually :) For reference: http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2009-July/012866.html02:38
talltomWAI just got done with a computer sci degree and am looking to take up an open source project, any ideas on where to start06:01
pittiGood morning06:44
pittislangasek: you rock!06:51
pittislangasek: want me to accept gvfs for hardy-proposed now, or stall everything until after .3 was released?06:52
maxbliw: Hello. Does apt-sync/zsync apply in any way to Packages files, or is it just about .deb files ?07:07
anilgI've multiple repositories in my sources.list.. how do I print the packages in one particular repository (say a launchpad ppa repo)?07:21
dholbachgood morning07:23
* slangasek wavse07:24
maxbanilg: Hi, that's not really a development question (as the topic says: "Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu)"). You'd be better placed asking that in #ubuntu. (Though ftr I don't think there is any command for this, and I'd probably resort to applying grep-ctrl to apt's raw lists files)07:24
ograhmm, why dont we have a proper commandline interface to tasksel ...07:25
* ogra cant belive nobody ever wrote something like that 07:25
* dholbach wavse to slangasek too07:25
anilgmaxb: thanks.. I did try #ubuntu07:25
* ogra joins the wavsing to slangasek 07:25
StevenKogra: We do, apt-get07:28
ograStevenK, apt-get can make me a list of available tasks ?07:29
* ogra checks the docs ... thats news to me07:29
StevenKogra: grep '^Task: ' /var/lib/apt/lists/silver.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_*_binary-*_Packages | cut -d\  -f2- | tr ',' '\n' | sed -e 's/^ //' | sort -u07:32
ograwell, then i rather parse /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc :)07:33
ograand depend on tasksel data07:33
StevenKogra: For what?07:34
ograi want to show a gtk list with available tasks plus a textfield where you can add sinle packages as csv list before you fire up the build07:35
ograso what i was actually lookinf for was something like "tasksel --list-tasks" and "tasksel --list-taks-descriptions" to just feed into the list :)07:36
StevenKogra: /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc will show you the *hosts* tasksel list, not the targets07:36
ograthe target doesnt exist at that point07:37
StevenKogra: For the example of running rootstock on a Jaunty machine, but building a Karmic root07:37
ograhmm, yeah, i probably shuld pull the packages list from the archive and use your approach ...07:38
ograprob is that this changes my UI approach :/07:38
ograsince i need to know the target release before doing that ...07:39
StevenKogra: You can pre-populate it, given data on the running system first.07:40
ograindeed, thats what i do anyway07:40
StevenKogra: But the task list might change if you're building for Karmic.07:40
StevenKActually, it *will* change, I can think of two tasks that Karmic has and Jaunty doesn't.07:40
ograby default it builds ubuntu-minimal and pulls all other data (locale, kbd settings etc) from the host07:41
* ogra ponders how to make that switchable on the fly without ending up with something like a wizard UI07:43
dholbachogra: mtp loves wizards!07:45
ograhmm, i should probably make the script stop generating *all* en_* locales inside qemu-system-arm ... might speed it up a bit07:46
ogradholbach, oh, since when ?07:46
ograi always thought he didnt :)07:46
dholbachdidn't you see the wizard costume he was wearing in Boston?07:46
ograhrm, why did my trap code in the script stop working07:51
nikolamI have a problem with menu.lst07:57
nikolamEvery time hardy updates kernel it mess up the grup option for testing ubuntu instalaltion07:57
nikolamand vice versa07:57
YokoZardholbach: I propose that all Fall UDSes that are in the US overlap halloween07:57
dholbachYokoZar: I'm not sure I'm the right person to talk to :)07:58
YokoZarFailing that, they should end with a costume party07:58
nikolamI am editing menu.lst for Every kernel update on testing or stable since 6.10 and I am finally sick of it07:58
nikolamsorry I maybe should post this ono ubuntu or ubuntu+1, sorry.07:59
YokoZarbtw dholbach, are there plans to let the 5-a-day stats page apply to individuals again?  It's been "groups only" for a long time now08:00
dholbachYokoZar: bdmurray is working on that08:00
dholbachYokoZar: it needs an RT ticket resolved because we need to process HUGE amounts of data08:01
YokoZarahh ok08:01
dholbachlike all ubuntu-bugs@ archives :)08:02
dholbachthe code is open08:02
dholbachso if you want to help out, that's cool08:02
dholbachhey mdz08:03
mdz_dholbach, hi08:08
* maxb boots intrepid and experiences nostalgia for how pretty it was :-/08:09
ogranostalgia ?08:10
maxbusplash and notifications were both prettier in intrepid than jaunty/karmic, IMO08:11
ograwell ... but its not even a year old08:11
ograboot a warty or hoary liveCD ... thats nostalgic :)08:12
maxbI was running jaunty from alpha 3, intrepid seems a long time ago :-)08:12
hileabout names, just curious: so what will happen when ubuntu runs out of latin alphabet in release names? too far away to think about this?08:15
maxbThat will not be until 2017....08:15
highvoltagethe 2K17 bug. very serious stuff indeed.08:16
hileneed a committee to solve the issue!08:16
ograwe will have taken over the world by then ... we'll just anhance the latin alphabet08:16
hilethat's a good plan08:17
highvoltagehile: I guess it will start over with unpronouncable letters. and then you'll call it things like "the distribution formerly known as hoary"08:17
maxbI dunno, I quite like the sound of "Ancestral Alligator"08:18
seb128slangasek, \o/ for fixing the gvfs samba issue08:46
slangasekseb128: thanks for your help setting me on the right track!08:47
dholbach¡¡¡ please everybody help to clean up http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ !!! :-)08:53
liwmaxb, why ask in multiple forums, making sure that people miss the answer? I will answer via e-mail09:02
Q-FUNKhowdy!  could someone with upload rights please merge the two attached maintainer scripts at LP bug #399482 ?09:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 399482 in bluez "bluez: upgrade from 4.45-0ubuntu1 to 4.45-0ubuntu2 fails" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39948209:02
RAOFQ-FUNK: Doesn't that say "fix released"?09:04
Q-FUNKRAOF: it was entirely the wrong fix.09:10
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
ograKeybuk, erm, did the behavior of reboot change with upstart 0.6 ?09:37
ograKeybuk, reboot -fp doesnt see to do what it did before in my qemu-system-arm VM09:38
Keybukogra: what do you mean?09:55
wincidehi all, i would appreciate an answer if someone know something about return codes when launching some proccesses... When i run some proccess and it finish its task, sometimes the return code in the terminal is like [1]   Done    |         [3]-  Done             or       [9]+  Exit 25109:57
ograKeybuk, i'm running a script that bootstraps a base system into a qemu image, fires up the image with a shellscript to proceed the second stage bootstrap and set up some stuff ... in the end the sript calls reboot -f which doesnt seem to behave like it did before09:57
Mezok, that's a major bug, gksu no longer works.09:57
ograit uses init=<path to script> and indeed doesnt invoke upstart09:57
wincidei dont know the differences among [1] or a - / + after the number, or the exit code sometimes with + and other times with -   ..09:57
liwwincide, it's your shell outputting those, so a good first step would be its documentation ("man bash" if you're using that), even if it is intimidating09:58
Keybukogra: "doesn't seem to behave like it did before" ?09:59
Keybukthis is what I'm trying confused about09:59
ograKeybuk, the vm doesnt shut down09:59
Keybukdid you try strace reboot -f ?09:59
ogratricky to do in that setup10:00
ograbut i just had an insane idea, i can kill the vm from the outside after debootstrap is done with its second stage, do a normal boot and make the configuration script an upstart job :)10:01
smbhi, is currently someone around who knows a bit more on the userspace side of v4l1->v4l2 transition and applications only capable of v4l1. There is a regression bug on the kernel side (bug 352765) which I believe is rather tied to the applications and the compat lib.10:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 352765 in linux "Logitech webcam doesn't work (v4l2 support needed)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/35276510:02
Keybukogra: reboot -f/poweroff -f really don't do much other than call the reboot() syscall10:04
ograKeybuk, ok, i thought they might try to route that through upstart or so now10:04
wincidethx liw, buy i've reading all the bash man, and the closest term related to what i trying to find out, is just the number of proccess launched, but ,anything about this kind of return codes with + - or exit with + or - ....10:04
Keybukogra: no, only if you don't call with -f10:04
ograthe thing is that the kernel and VM are the same as before, only the image content is karmic10:04
Keybukwithout -f they call shutdown10:05
ograso its some software thats blocking here10:05
DavieyKeybuk: Is this a good time to start thinking about switiching from init.d scripts to upstart?10:05
ograbut i think i'll go with abusing upstart as installer, thats a funny idea10:05
ograand will actually give me all initscripts out of the box instead of me having to invoke them from the script one by one10:06
KeybukDaviey: to a limited degree, yes10:06
ograKeybuk, is there a limitation on the amount of runlevels or could i just add a runlevel 7 or 8 ?10:07
Keybukogra: there are no runlevels 7 or 810:07
DavieyKeybuk: thanks.10:07
Keybukuse 3, 4 or 5 - they're spare10:07
ograKeybuk, no, i want them to stay untouched10:07
Keybukyou could use a different event than runlevel10:08
ograbeing able to add runlevel 7 and just dump my job scripts in there would be cool10:08
ograand delete everything related to 7 after i'm done10:09
cjwatsonpam: I'm a bit confused. Why not just start with the working assumption that the upstream gfxboot module is sufficient, and test that? You could test for screen-clearing after 'localboot' (i.e. "Boot from first hard disk") easily enough, and I'd be surprised if force-prompt weren't handled upstream since otherwise it doesn't work very well with the standard menu system10:09
cjwatsonpam: surely we shouldn't be getting a reputation of asking upstream to support Ubuntu's changes; that's bad form10:10
cjwatsonwincide: it's described in the "JOB CONTROL" section of the bash manual page, specifically towards the end of the paragraph starting with "There are a number of ways to refer to jobs in the shell"10:11
wincideim taking a look again, lets check it... thx10:12
ograKeybuk, oh, i suspect its even easier, i could just temporary replace /etc/init/rcS.conf10:14
ograand call my config the same way sulogin is started10:15
ograwow, thats so insane that i actually start to like it :)10:16
Keybukyou could do that10:21
Keybukthough that would mean forcing start into single-user mode10:21
ograKeybuk, thats fine what bothers me since a while is that my script needs to invoke all the rcS stuff, thats error prone, using upstart works around that :)10:25
ograand i can properly shut down10:26
Keybukogra: the rcS stuff?  your script needs the recovery menu?10:26
ograno, but mounted / and proc etc etc10:27
Keybukah, I see your confusing10:27
KeybukrcS.conf is for what to do *while* in single-user mode10:27
Keybuknot the sysinit scripts10:27
ograoh, k10:27
Keybuk(which Debian always confusingly put in rcS.d)10:27
Keybukrc-sysinit.conf is the one you want to look at10:27
ograok, will do10:27
Keybukit runs rcS.d10:28
Keybukthen runs telinit to switch to the next runlevel10:28
ograyep i see10:28
ograoh and telinit dies with my test image :/10:28
Keybuk"dies" ?10:29
ograbut the image seems corrupt as well10:30
Keybukdo you have a core dump?10:30
ogratelinit "did not recieve a reply etc etc"10:31
ograi guess its the kernel i use for the VM10:32
* ogra tries with a jaunty versatile one 10:32
wincidebye, thx for all10:35
ograweird, same issue10:35
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
ograKeybuk, was a corrupted fs ...10:44
ograworks with a different image10:44
Keybukgood to know10:45
ogra_whats up with my network today10:47
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
cody-somervilleUmmm... why was a package seemingly just accepted into the jaunty release pocket?11:19
cody-somervilleoh, uploads to partner get sent to jaunty-changes too11:20
ogracody-somerville, partner archive ?11:20
ograudevd[9589]: udev: missing sysfs features; please update the kernel or disable the kernel's CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED option; udev may fail to work correctly11:27
=== ember_ is now known as ember
james_wquadrispro: around?11:33
quadrisprojames_w: hi james11:37
james_wI'm looking at ncurses11:38
james_wwhat does "Install wide-character patches into /{,usr/}lib32." mean?11:38
quadrisprojames_w: only a moment, bug?11:39
enricomvo: I saw your patch, I've been overly busy these days, I'll take care of it now11:39
quadrisprobug 39962511:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 399625 in ncurses "Merge ncurses 5.7+20090613-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39962511:39
quadrisprojames_w: nothing, maybe I forgot to do some change... i'm checking it (and unsubscribing sponsors team for now)11:43
james_wquadrispro: thanks11:44
james_wit looks as though that changelog entry might have just been carried forwards for lots of uploads when it wasn't needed11:44
mvoenrico: thanks, no problem about the delay11:50
dpmStevenK: what do you think about the reply from fbreader upstream regarding their contributor guidelines, is this going to be a problem? -> http://www.fbreader.org/docs/contributions.php11:55
enricomvo: uploaded, thanks a lot for the patch"12:01
mvoenrico: cool, thanks!12:04
ogradid the initscripts massively change in karmic ?12:34
ograespecially the stop tasks in them ?12:34
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
=== akgraner_ is now known as akgraner
=== beuno_ is now known as beuno
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== dwatson is now known as davewatson
cjwatsonseb128: could somebody please add a versioned Replaces on gnome-session to gnome-session-bin? I don't really want to accept the package in NEW since the missing Replaces will cause problems13:35
seb128cjwatson, will do, thanks for noticing13:35
seb128cjwatson, in fact isn't the Conflicts enough?13:39
cjwatsonseb128: I'm not convinced13:40
seb128cjwatson, I think Josselin argued before that using Conflicts only is enough and will assure things are upgraded in the right order13:40
cjwatsonthe safe rule is *always* to add a Replaces and it does no harm13:40
seb128right, I'm doing that, I just failed to convince Josselin apparently during previous discussions13:41
seb128I will ping him again about that13:41
cjwatsonis Conflicts actually necessary? it makes the upgrade painful13:41
cjwatsonusing Conflicts means the old gnome-session package has to be entirely removed before installing the new gnome-session-bin13:41
seb128well I would say only Replaces is required13:42
cjwatsonif possible, it would be better to use Replaces plus maybe Breaks13:42
seb128Breaks is not required, it's really a Replaces situation I think13:42
cjwatsonright, in that case it's probably just the old-fashioned confusion between Conflicts and Replaces13:43
cjwatsonit's possible that he's technically right that Conflicts is enough, but it's definitely a suboptimal way to do it13:43
seb128cjwatson, Replaces version uploaded, you can accept the binaries now the Conflicts should work too or wait for the new build13:46
cjwatsonok, thanks13:46
seb128np, thanks for checking the binaries and letting me know about the issue13:46
ivokscould someone finally fix lvm2 bug 246324 ; it's trivial and makes life easier...13:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 246324 in lvm2 "initramfs-tools lvm2-hookscript won't include lvm.conf and claim devices it shouldn't " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24632413:49
loolpitti: I've pushed a seed change to desktop-common to pull apmd on armel; apmd was demoted from main to universe in karmic, so I don't think I need a MIR to promote it back, do I?13:52
cjwatsonivoks: done13:53
ivokscjwatson: awsome; thanks13:53
pittilool: right, we can just re-promote it; I just thought it was horribly outdated and ditched it from main13:59
loolpitti: The Marvell SoC we target for karmic will rely on APM, yeah!13:59
loolpitti: (I discovered that 10 minutes ago BTW)14:00
* ogra wonders if devicekit-power can do APM at all14:01
=== agateau_ is now known as agateau
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
mvoenrico: did you push your upload to git yet?14:27
c_kornis fast-user-switch-applet being dropped in karmic?14:36
enricomvo: ah, right, I forgot14:37
enricomvo: done.14:38
pittijames_w: thanks for the package branch announcement14:42
seb128c_korn, it's in gdm now14:42
pittijames_w: one thing that's not quite clear to me, should the official brnaches be committed/pushed to, or are they read-only and only an auto-import?14:43
james_wthey should be pushed to14:43
james_wyou just can't yet14:43
james_wsee the part about permissions14:43
pittijames_w: ah, so right now, they are read-only14:43
pittijames_w: other question, should they only be full-source, or packaging-only branches as well?14:43
james_wso any commit you do are just "squashed" in to one14:44
james_wfull-source is the one true way!14:44
cjwatsonthere was discussion at UDS of how to incorporate history from older packaging-only branches14:44
didrockspitti: I think we will have to update our desktop team workflow progressively to full-source branches :)14:45
pittijames_w: right, but both debian and ubuntu have a huge set of packaging-only branches14:45
c_kornseb128: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/18739/screenshot_003_qv7BQY.png you mean that?14:45
pittiand at this point they are still better than using the auto-imports14:45
pittididrocks: yes, probably14:46
james_wwhy are they better?14:46
seb128c_korn, yes, cf gdm changelog for details14:46
seb128c_korn, the ubuntu changes need to be ported to the gdm version14:46
james_w(not being argumentative, I'd like to fix the issues)14:46
seb128c_korn, what you have now is the upstream variant, tedg is working on porting the ubuntu changes14:46
seb128didrocks, no; no change in the ubuntu desktop workflow14:47
gnomefreakah that explains the depends on gdm14:47
cjwatsonpitti: (FWIW there is no harm in continuing to use the old packaging-only branches outside the lp:ubuntu/karmic/ namespace until such time as the full-source branches are good enough)14:47
didrocksseb128: not now, just when the branches will be ready to use (not read only as of now), don't you think?14:47
seb128didrocks, we have something working I think we should not be the first to run in new things, we have enough to do without fighting tools and learning new way every week14:48
didrocksseb128: I can't agree more :)14:48
seb128james_w, one thing better with packaging only in vcs is the time it takes to fetch the source14:52
seb128james_w, it takes over 15 minutes to get the nautilus source there where it takes 1 minutes to get the tarball and the debian dir from a vcs14:53
djsiegel_StevenK: what's happening with https://launchpad.net/about-window ?14:53
james_wI don't think that should be the only deciding factor though, and it is something that is being worked on and has improved a lot.14:53
seb128james_w, well it's a matter of pro and con, and that's an annoying con without any real pro for full source in what we do now14:54
james_wwell, let me try and convince you of the pros14:54
seb128james_w, ok ;-)14:56
james_wseb128: nautilus isn't imported yet, and I'd like to do an experiment14:56
james_wany other package of a similar size you work with a lot?14:56
seb128james_w, gnome-control-center?14:57
james_wnope :-)14:57
james_wseems a lot of gnome isn't done yet :-)14:58
seb128gtk+2.0 is a bit an extreme example14:58
seb128or gvfs14:58
djsiegel_pitti: scott ritchie reports that pcspkr sounds have been replaced with normal alert sounds in karmic https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/7701014:58
ubottuUbuntu bug 77010 in hundredpapercuts "Overuse of system beep without volume control" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:58
seb128gvfs is recent though14:58
pittidjsiegel_: indeed, I saw his comment14:58
pittididn't check on that bug yet, though14:58
seb128james_w, rhythmbox? just pick anything desktopish... ;-)14:58
djsiegel_pitti: glory glory hallelujah14:58
pamcjwatson: This is what I am trying to do (test if the patches are still relevant). About the mail: since Stefen is rewritting the patch again in C, just wanted to ping him about these fixes and incorporate them in the new version if necessary.14:59
djsiegel_pitti: ok, I will check and mark fixed when I get a chance, should have a machine to test tomorrow14:59
cjwatsonpam: why not just plug it into an existing image and see if it works? :)14:59
pamI don't have access to the C version yet, not released AFAIK15:00
pamcjwatson: for the com16, sure15:00
cjwatsonkirkland: why am I getting the motd every time I start a terminal window? that's incredibly annoying15:01
james_wseb128: empathy 38s vs 9s, so still some work to do15:02
james_wseb128: but when there's a new one to grab it should be quicker in bzr15:03
seb128james_w, that's already quite good my tests there where rather 10 times slower15:03
james_wthat's why we are using the new format :-)15:03
seb128well there is a limit anyway which is the quantity of information you need to get15:03
seb128even git which is reputed to be fast is some 6-7 times slower than getting just the source in tarball15:04
seb128all the commits history is quite some datas15:04
kirklandcjwatson: that will go away as soon as slangasek accepts the pam_motd patch15:16
kirklandcjwatson: rm /etc/profile.d/update-motd.sh if you can't wait15:17
kirklandcjwatson: update-motd package going away, see ubuntu-devel@ mailing list15:17
* kirkland -> returns to his holiday15:18
StevenKdjsiegel_: You know, that's been stalled for about 5 releases?15:28
djsiegel_StevenK: yes I know15:28
djsiegel_StevenK: do you have any interest or bandwidth to unstall it?15:29
cjwatsonkirkland: ok, thanks15:34
=== kiko-afk is now known as kiko
* manjo moving to ubuntu-kernel as per rtg's command15:46
=== mterry_ is now known as mterry
ftapitti, how long does it take to have a -dbgsym for a package? (say libdbus-1-3-dbgsym)16:27
pittifta: until it's on ddebs.u.c.? Should be within 6 hours16:29
pitti8, actually16:30
pitti10 3,11,19 * * *16:30
ftapitti, hm, ok. thanks. i guess i'll wait16:30
fta19:10, is that UTC?16:30
jpdsProbably London.16:31
pittiso, 1810 UTC16:31
ftaless than 3h.. ok, thanks16:31
slangasekKeybuk: I see that upstart 0.6 provides /lib/init/upstart-job, but there's no Provides: upstart-job; oversight?  want a bug report?16:43
Keybukslangasek: ah, yes please16:44
mbieblShould also have a Conflicts/Replaces I guess16:45
Keybukyeah should be a super-switch thing16:46
Keybukmbiebl: btw. did you get any further with the "better" upstart-job than my hacky shell script?16:46
mbieblIt's not much better, but it has support for being called by /etc/rc?.d/???servicename16:47
mbiebland it also tries to much all action that are supposed to be available (like force-reload)16:47
mbieblto corresponding upstart actions16:47
slangasekmbiebl: should it?  we shouldn't ever have more than one upstart-job implementation on a given arch?16:49
Keybukmbiebl: can you file a bug and attach it?16:50
Keybukslangasek: upstart vs. sysvinit both providing it16:50
slangaseksince when is sysvinit going to provide it?  I thought the alternative implementation was going to be built from upstart source16:50
mbieblyeah, the idea was to provide a upstart-job implementation for sysvinit16:50
slangaseksince it needs to understand upstart job formats16:50
mbieblfor people that don't want (or can make) the switch16:51
mbieblcan't make, meaning upstart is not yet available on their arch16:52
slangasekah, I forgot that we were giving people a choice in some cases. :)16:52
Keybukright, but there are two alternate implementations in Debian16:53
Keybukor at least will be16:53
mbieblthis alternate implementation is giving me some headaches though.16:53
mbieblnot sure yet, how the stop action can be implemented16:54
slangasekmbiebl: killall5 should be fine16:58
mbieblslangasek: I switched to #pkg-sysvinit16:58
=== Sarvatt_ is now known as Sarvatt
keespitti: do you have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-karmic-apport-abort on your schedule?  I'd like to start using that feature now that it's in glibc.17:31
ograKeybuk, "init: rc-sysinit main process (380) killed by TERM signal" ... i assume i'm missing a kernel feature (fiddling with qemu arm kernels) would anything strike you as something i could miss from the top of your head ?17:33
ograapart from that message the VM works perfectly fine17:33
Keybukogra: when did you receive that message?17:34
ograKeybuk, when the login prompt shows up17:35
Keybuk"the login prompt" ?17:35
ogra * Setting up console font and keymap...                                 [ OK ]17:35
ogra * Starting system log daemon...                                                init: rc-sysinit main process (380) killed by TERM signal17:35
ogra                                                                         [ OK ]17:35
ogra * Starting kernel log daemon...                                         [ OK ]17:35
ograUbuntu karmic (development branch) dove ttyAMA017:35
ogradove login: test17:35
ograthats the boot (through a serial console)17:36
Keybukah right17:37
Keybukit's just what was in the syslog buffer then17:37
ograso it actually died before17:37
Keybukyeah, when it ran telinit17:37
ogratelinit itself didnt spill a message though17:38
Keybukwhy would it?17:39
ograbecause there is a stderr ?17:39
Keybukno, I mean why are you expecting an error from telinit17:39
ograbecause rc-sysinit gets killed and you said its caused by telinit ?17:40
* ogra has the feeling he doesnt get it17:41
Keybukrc-sysinit has17:41
Keybuk  stop on runlevel17:41
Keybukthe last command that rc-sysinit runs is17:41
Keybuk    telinit "${DEFAULT_RUNLEVEL}"17:41
ogratelinit default...17:41
Keybukso telinit will generate the runlevel event17:42
Keybukwhich will forcibly stop the job its actually running from17:42
ograoh, so its no error at all17:42
Keybukso Upstart will tell you that it was killed by the TERM signal17:42
ograthen i wonder why i dont see it anywhere else ?17:42
Keybukthe only reason you see it at all is because it's the last message in the syslog buffer17:42
Keybukand it ends up on the console for some reason17:43
ograyeah, and i see it on SDL qemu as well as on serial console ...17:43
Keybukthat might be part of the reason why17:43
ograi would have blamed the serial console otherwise17:43
Keybukit's just an escaped log message17:43
Keybuknothing harmful17:44
ograthanks a lot for the clearification17:44
* ogra dances .... so i have a cotex-a8 kernel for qemu :)17:44
macoKeybuk, question about bootlogd18:00
Keybukmaco: quickly...18:01
macoyou said the init script wont be removed because what if the user patches bootlogd to work, then theyll need it.  why dont we patch it to work and put it back in?18:01
macoif such patches seem to already exist, that is18:01
Keybukif you want to do that, please do18:01
KeybukI'll happily sponsor the patches ;)18:02
macoare you making an evil smile right now?18:02
apwKeybuk, did X move to VT1 in karmic?  and where might i find that18:03
macook. just checking that this isnt a "MUAHAHAHAH" moment18:03
Keybukapw: X moved all over the place in karmic; frankly it's all gone a bit quantum18:03
Keybukapw: you can tell which VT X is going to be on, or which VT X is actually on, but not both at the same time18:03
apwheheh ...18:03
Keybukmaco: it's somewhere on my TODO list, but it's a very long list, and it's quite near the bottom - so if you have some time, please do feel free to have go at it - if you get it all to work, I'll sponsor the upload18:04
apwwhat actually decides where it thinks it wants it started18:04
Keybukmaco: one of the obvious bits is that bootlogd would need to end up in sysvutils or whatever that package is called18:04
Keybukmaco: check with pere on OFTC #pkg-sysvinit18:04
* apw is lost in a maze of twisty packages18:04
Keybukapw: ironically, now I think about it18:04
Keybukapw: my jokey statement was actually largely true18:04
Keybukapw: X when started calls the VTQUERY ioctl to ask the kernel for the first free VT18:04
Keybukapw: though I believe pitti has been doing some work to hardcode it to VT7, since BAD THINGS happen when X and getty share a VT18:05
macoKeybuk, ok, will look into it18:05
chrisccoulsonhi cody-somerville - i just saw your GDM merge proposal18:05
Keybukapw: obviously we'd rather not hardcode X to VT7, which would mean not hardcoding getty to VT1-6 either <g>18:05
chrisccoulsoni think GDM still needs to depend on gnome-settings-daemon, else it doesn't theme properly18:05
apwKeybuk, on my jaunty box its on VT7 and there is a vt7 on X's command line18:05
chrisccoulsonit used to get that dep via gnome-session18:05
Keybukapw: but there's some resistance from the sandal-wearing crowd to a first-come-first-served approach to VTs18:05
Keybukapw: then pitti has uploaded his patch :)18:05
apwand i think my crashy box which isn't here with me, that it was on VT1, and i was trying to confirm and failed18:06
Keybukapw: that sounds plausible18:06
* apw will have to download some more packages i guess18:06
Keybukwe have two options really18:06
Keybukkeep hardcoding getty to vt1-6 on boot18:06
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, Its generally not a good idea to take for granted dependencies you get through other dependencies for this exact situation <grins>18:07
Keybukerr s/ on boot//18:07
Keybukhardcode X to vt7+18:07
Keybukthen VT switch on boot18:07
Keybukor just do VTs on a first-come-first-served basis18:07
Keybukie. X would take VT1 on boot18:07
Keybukand the "six gettys" configured would get VT2-718:07
chrisccoulsoncody-somerville - agreed ;)18:07
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, Does it need gnome-settings-daemon or gconf?18:07
apwKeybuk, yeah ...18:07
chrisccoulsoncody-somerville - it needs both18:08
Keybukapw: but then of course you could have two X logged in users, and two gettys18:08
chrisccoulsondoes it not already have a gconf dependency?18:08
Keybukwith X on vt1 and vt3, and getty on vt2 and vt418:08
Keybukmaybe we could use udev18:08
apwyeah i thinl when i had two users they were VT-1 and 818:08
ionHow about additional X sessions? They wouldn’t get adjacent VTs.18:08
Keybukion: everything would get "first free VT"18:09
apwion the user has no clue where they are now18:09
apwthey happen to be on 7 which is pretty mad18:09
Keybuk7 and 9 now usually18:09
Keybukuser on 7, guest on 918:09
apwyeah see what is on 818:09
Keybukbecause usplash took 818:09
Keybukin this model, user would be on 1, and guest on 8 (assuming 6 gettys)18:10
apwi think in the new user switcher you get a 'switch to someone' entry on your logout menu18:10
Keybukthough it'd be generally unpredictable18:10
Keybukright exatcly18:10
apwand it knows where it is and you son't have to know18:10
Keybukthe right way to solve this is just to embrace the chaos18:10
Keybukand supply a more useful "VT switch" command ;)18:11
Keybukconsole equivalent of user switch18:11
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, it does18:11
chrisccoulsonso, it will still pull in some gnome-components. but, depending on gnome-session-bin only will mean that gnome-session is not registered as an alternative for x-session-manager and it won't start some gnome-only components18:12
chrisccoulsonso it's slightly better ;)18:13
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, say again18:15
apwKeybuk, we could simply clear the first N vt's and push the console to 4 up or 6 and up18:15
apwand leave nothing on 1-5 so VT would be there18:15
apwKeybuk, how do i find out what makes 'system-services' apt-get source seems all confused by it18:17
pittikees: ah, saw your spec approval; sorry, didn't have time to look into that yet18:20
keespitti: no problemo; let me know if I can help.18:28
pittikees: well, patches/commits appreciated, as always :) it'll still take me a bit to get to, since I have some high prio/stuff that other people depend on to do18:29
keespitti: sure thing.18:29
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, I'm going to try starting gdm without gnome-settings-daemon18:29
chrisccoulsoncody-somerville - no problem. i think you will lose the theme though18:30
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, I'm sure we can figure something out :)18:31
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, Thanks for your help btw with this. Its very *much* appreciated.18:31
chrisccoulsonyou're welcome:)18:31
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, it boots now atleast :)18:33
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, no theme as you said18:33
chrisccoulsonexcellent \o/ i did try booting a xubuntu live CD, and all i got was a broken gnome session18:34
chrisccoulsondoes the new dependencies fix that?18:34
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, It booted into Xfce and not gnome so I consider that a success :)18:34
cody-somervillealbeit I don't have "gnome" installer18:34
chrisccoulsonfantastic :) even**18:35
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, hmm... looking at the logs it looks like gnome-session tried to start metacity for some reason18:40
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, this is in /var/log/gdm/:0-greeter.log18:40
chrisccoulsoncody-somerville - it seems that GDM ships a metacity desktop file in it's autostart folder18:41
jcastroliw: FYI: http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette19:11
jcastromight be interesting to that deb zsync stuff19:12
* ScottK waves to jcastro.19:17
liwjcastro, ack, thanks, I'll have a look19:22
jcastrohi ScottK!19:23
ScottKjcastro: I saw you found @kubuntunetbook19:23
jcastroScottK: My spies are everywhere.19:24
ScottKjcastro: Yeah, well it's not like we're hiding ....19:24
ScottKjcastro: Feel free to hang out in #kubuntu-netbook if you want.  We have one of the plasma-netbook upstream devs in there with us if you want to supervise our upstream relations.19:25
* jcastro todo's it19:25
jcastroScottK: post-Debconf I will.19:25
ScottKWouldn't it be faster to just join ...19:25
superm1Hm. so can someone advise the best way to proceed to fix bug 399482?  If you upgrade from 4.45-0ubuntu{1,2} to 4.45-ubuntu3 and bluetoothd isn't running, the prerm will fail. Adding in a case to the preinst to check if upgrading from 4.45-0ubuntu1 or 4.45-0ubuntu2 and spawning bluetoothd is all I can see working right now19:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 399482 in bluez "Upgrading from bluez 4.45-0ubuntu{1,2} to 4.45-0ubuntu3 or later fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39948219:28
ScottKsuperm1: I think you can do something with dh_installinit --error-handler (see the man page).19:40
superm1ScottK, ah that looks to be a useful alternative, i'll do some experimenting with it. thanks19:42
ScottKYou're welcome.19:42
gesersuperm1: looking at http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts adding a "failed-upgrade" case to the new prerm seems to be the only way to work around this failure when execute the old prerm19:59
ftapitti, is there a way to tell apport to keep several crash files for the same program+user?20:07
ftapitti, and what happens when a chrooted program crashes? where is the crash file generated?20:08
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, It seems like gdm is pretty much automatically logging into, for a lack of a better description, the gdm user, auto-launching a minimal gnome session and a GTK application to provide a GTK UI to perform the login.20:10
mrooneyevand: I heard maybe you handle ubuntu-devel mailing list whitelisting? I was wondering if I could be added as I keep getting those moderation notices every time I reply and my replies also aren't timely then20:11
chrisccoulsoncody-somerville - yeah, that sounds about right.20:11
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, is there anything in particular that demands gnome-session or metacity or [insert other gnome thing here]... that is besides the fact that launching gnome-session appears to be hardcoded into gdm simple slave?20:37
evandmrooney: I'm out for the evening, can you please send me an email to remind me and I'll take care of it tomorrow#20:38
slangasekpitti: pulling empathy in by default seems to have cost us about 7MB on the CDs now; how are we going to make that up?20:42
mrooneyevand: sure thing, thanks!20:43
slangasekpitti: a lot of that is libwebkit, which we'd avoided in previous releases - is there other stuff we can convert to webkit and bring in some savings?20:43
directhexslangasek, sure. firefox.20:43
directhexLaney, is the current tomboy in karmic size-reduced?20:44
Laneyshould be20:44
directhexlet me check some dep chains to see if i can get you anything20:44
LaneyI was just doing the new tomboy20:44
directhexhm. my f-spot patch landed. i already gave you 2.7 meg last week, slangasek!20:45
Laneyhe's so demanding!20:45
slangasekI only demand that CDs fit on CDs, the rest is the desktop team's doing. :)20:46
seb128slangasek, webkit will probably be a requirement for GNOME too soon but that will not win anything since xulruinner will stay for firefox anyway20:52
seb128slangasek, pitti suggested dropping the gimp user documentation today I think20:52
slangasekthat sounds like a good place to start20:53
slangasekseb128: we also still have pidgin on here, is that going away soon?20:53
seb128slangasek, that should be fixed with the seed update to drop pidgin-libnotify20:54
seb128slangasek, did you get a CD rebuild since?20:54
slangasekI don't know20:54
slangasekdoesn't look like it20:54
seb128slangasek, well we noticed the issue this morning and pitti unseeded pidgin-libnotify if there is still something pulling pidgin we need to investigate20:55
* slangasek fires off a quick alternate build to see20:55
chrisccoulsoncody-somerville - AFAICT, gdm needs gnome-session because gnome-session allows you to specify an autostart directory, to tell it where to load session agents from. i'm not sure if other session managers do that21:02
cody-somervillechrisccoulson, AFAIK, xfce4-session can do that21:02
chrisccoulsoncan it? i had a quick glance a couple of weeks ago and i wasn;t sure if it did21:03
chrisccoulsonGDM does something like "gnome-session --autostart /etc/gdm/LoginWindow/autostart", to stop it loading files from the normal system autostart directories21:04
=== so is now known as simon-o
johanbrtkamppeter_, I have a pdf file (from latex) that cups in karmic treats very badly21:41
johanbrthe source pdf is 1 meg, the pdf output that cups gives to the print server is 826 megs21:42
johanbrsomething you're aware of?21:42
=== ajmitch_ is now known as ajmitch
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
tormodjohanbr, sounds like something for a bug report and upstream possibly22:01
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
tkamppeterjohanbr, please make the PDF file available to me. Thanks.22:02
AskalonSiete tutti sviluppatori qui dentro?22:10
slangasekAskalon: si, ma la lingua franca qui é l'inglese22:15
AskalonQuindi se parlo in Italiano rischio di non essere capito, giusto?22:15
ubottuVai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (click col tasto destro sul nome del canale per entrare)22:17
slangasekAskalon: non esserebbe capito, no :)22:20
sebnerslangasek for italiano \o/22:20
slangaseksebner: survival-level, at least :)22:22
sebnerslangasek: 8 years at school. knowledge forgotten -> 99%22:23
slangasekseb128: oh my... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/207072/comments/239 :)22:43
ubottuUbuntu bug 207072 in gvfs "nautilus does not display samba shares for machines inside an ADS network." [High,In progress]22:43
slangasekwell, at least that assures us there's no chance of regression ;)22:43
AskalonI can give you advice about an betterment?22:45
* ScottK has a special folder in his email with lots of advice about betterment.22:47
seb128slangasek, arg, I don't have my hardy machine there but I will fix that tomorrow morning if nobody beats me to it22:48
cjwatsonAskalon: suggestions for improvement are generally best filed as bug reports; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs22:54
cjwatsonAskalon: or, as that page notes, general ideas are better in brainstorm.ubuntu.com22:54
AskalonOK THANK YOU22:55
ScottKcjwatson: Do you a moment for an ISO image question/issue (I know it's late there and it's not urgent)22:56
cjwatsonScottK: go ahead, if it's too involved I can always defer the answer ;-)22:57
ScottKcjwatson: OK.  I noticed when I did a kubuntu-netbook install yesterday that the background during the live session was Ubuntu and not Kubuntu.  Where should I look for making a change to fix that?22:57
ScottKBTW, the kubuntu-netbook ISO are working quite well so far.22:57
cjwatsonScottK: hmm, IIRC that's controlled by which artwork packages are seeded, rather than by anything ISO-ish22:58
cjwatsonI think, anyway22:58
ScottKcjwatson: OK.  I'll have a look and see if anything Ubuntu crept in.  Thanks.22:59
* ScottK downloads todays first to verify ...22:59
cjwatsonyou do seem to have kubuntu-default-settings seeded23:00
ScottKThat's the current intention (we'll have a netbook specific settings package eventually)23:01
ScottKcjwatson: The only thing I saw in the CD build log was some reference to edubuntu artwork.  I've no idea if it's related, but it seems odd the edubuntu addon stuff is getting run with netbook.23:05
cjwatsonScottK: it does rather. which log is that?23:05
ScottKcjwatson: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive//cd-build-logs/kubuntu-netbook/karmic/daily-live-20090715.log23:05
cjwatsonScottK: oh, right, that's nothing to worry about, it's just the presence of the Kubuntu education seed but it isn't actually used on your CD23:08
ScottKcjwatson: OK.  Thanks.  I'm still left a bit mistified then.23:08
cjwatsonfind the file that contains the wallpaper in question, dpkg -S, look for that package name?23:08
ScottKOr rather mystified since I'm not getting wet.23:08
cjwatsonIIRC the default is /usr/share/backgrounds/simple-ubuntu.png -> ubuntu-wallpapers23:09
ScottKcjwatson: OK.  I'm downloading today's ISO and I'll try that in a bit.  Thanks.23:09
cjwatsonbut that isn't in your image ...23:09
cjwatsonaccording to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-netbook/daily-live/current/karmic-netbook-i386.manifest anyway23:09
cjwatsonso I confess myself a bit baffled too.23:10
ScottKThat should give me a good pointer to see what's what once I get the image downloaded and converted.23:10
ScottKI'll make sure it's still a problem on today's image before getting too excited.23:10
ScottKThanks for the pointers.23:12
=== kiko is now known as kiko-afk

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