[02:14] <InSearchOf> no ubuntu-mobile meeting today?
[05:21] <plars> InSearchOf: It's on Tuesday, are you on the mailing list?
[12:21] <InSearchOf> plars, I am now
[15:56]  * lool waves
[15:57]  * ogra yawns
[15:58] <slangasek> morning, folks
[15:58]  * fader_ waves.
[15:59] <cjwatson_> hi
[15:59] <cjwatson> I'm having networking problems today - hopefully I'll stay online, but ...
[15:59] <heno> hey
[16:00] <slangasek> pgraner, davidm, Riddell, sbeattie, Hobbsee, ScottK, apw: ping
[16:01] <sbeattie> hey
[16:01] <lool> There's a storm here; my internet might drop even if I still appear connected
[16:01] <Riddell> hello
[16:01] <ScottK> \o
[16:01] <davidm> sladen, pgraner is traveling today
[16:01] <davidm> slangasek, pgraner is traveling today
[16:01] <slangasek> ok
[16:01]  * apw is here
[16:02] <pitti> hello, sorry for being late
[16:03] <slangasek> Robbie is off, it appears
[16:03] <slangasek> and dendrobates is traveling
[16:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:04] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-17
[16:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-07-17
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
[16:05] <slangasek> ScottK: about?
[16:05] <ScottK> Yes
[16:05] <ScottK> Stuck my hand up a few minutes ago
[16:06] <ScottK> slangasek: You can reassign the Kubuntu netbook test case one to me.
[16:06] <slangasek> ScottK: rgreening tells me he doesn't know what he's supposed to do for .. right, gotcha :)
[16:06] <rgreening> :)
[16:06] <slangasek> ScottK: I have kubuntu-netbook on the ISO tracker, do you know generally what the set of test cases should be for it?
[16:07] <ScottK> slangasek: I generally it will (for now) be the same as desktop.  The main difference is in install instructions.
[16:07] <ScottK> image I typed a few more words in that sentence.
[16:07] <rgreening> lol
[16:07] <ScottK> image/imagine
[16:07] <rgreening> ty ScottK.
[16:07]  * ScottK loooks for coffee again.
[16:08] <slangasek> ScottK: the full set of install options, including OEM, migration assistant, wubi?
[16:08]  * rgreening was a bit out of his element...
[16:08] <slangasek> cjwatson: had any luck with DVD size explosion?
[16:08] <ScottK> slangasek: Let's discuss after the meeting, OK?
[16:08] <slangasek> pitti: is the --install-layout=deb patch forwarded to Debian?
[16:08] <slangasek> ScottK: sure
[16:08] <pitti> slangasek: sorry, that slipped; still on TODO list
[16:09] <slangasek> ok
[16:09] <cjwatson> slangasek: sorry, not as yet :-(
[16:09] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
[16:09] <heno> hi
[16:09] <slangasek> hello
[16:10] <heno> fader_: has some mixed news on HW testing
[16:10] <fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:10] <fader_> The Montreal office (where the laptops are located) has moved to a new location, so cr3 has been working to get the lab put back together and working again.
[16:10] <fader_> He has also retrieved the laptops that were being used for testing by the support team and we have put some guidelines into place to prevent them from being out of the automated testing for more than 5 days in the future.
[16:10] <fader_> We have an intern who is testing the laptops today, so we should have better data for them next week.  This will include things like opening/closing the lids, etc. that cannot be done automatically, so this will be very valuable
[16:10] <fader_> There have been some issues with automated server testing, including bug 400007
[16:10] <fader_> Upstart changed where it looked for boot events, so installs were going on but no tests were being launched.  cr3 fixed this bug as of yesterday so again we should see fresh results coming in and have better data for next week.
[16:11]  * slangasek nods
[16:12] <fader_> That's all my news on the hardware testing front
[16:12] <heno> karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption:
[16:12] <heno> The LP team is still having trouble deploying so I've had to punt this to alpha 4 :(
[16:13] <heno> (blueprint updated)
[16:13] <slangasek> ok
[16:13] <heno> that's all from QA
[16:14] <slangasek> alright, thanks
[16:14] <slangasek> anyone have questions for QA?
[16:15] <slangasek> fader_: I notice ESX is among the "untested" units in the hw testing report; ESX availability isn't becoming a problem again, is it?
[16:16] <fader_> slangasek: It had not gotten tested for a while for an unknown reason.  I got it working again for the 8.04.3 tests and now it should get results along with the other servers once the changes from bug 400007 take effect
[16:16] <slangasek> ok
[16:16] <fader_> I've got my eye on it specifically as we added some new VMs to the pool to test
[16:16] <slangasek> sounds good
[16:16] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
[16:16] <slangasek> pitti rickspencer3_: hello
[16:17] <pitti> as usual, current status about bugs, A3, and release is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:17] <pitti> this week we saw the landing of empathy and ubuntuone file sync in the default install
[16:17] <pitti> we also fixed gdm harder, it's good enough for alpha-3 now; autologin setup is still missing, Robert Ancell will work on a replacement
[16:17] <pitti> the structural changes we planned for a3 are now done
[16:17] <pitti> for a3 we will update the intel driver and mesa again (nothing major, just bug fixes), and concentrate on major bug fixing.
[16:17] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:18] <pitti> oh, and I poked David
[16:18] <pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-os-switcher just got drafted, I'll review that ASAP
[16:18] <slangasek> is there a tracking bug for gdm autologin setup?
[16:18] <pitti> slangasek: yes, that and a blueprint; let me find it
[16:19] <pitti> bug 395299
[16:19] <slangasek> thanks
[16:21]  * slangasek finishes digesting status
[16:21] <slangasek> anything anyone else needs to bring up re: desktop?
[16:22]  * ScottK hands slangasek some Rolaids
[16:22] <slangasek> (r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells "release"?)
[16:23] <slangasek> btw, late minute switch-up on the agenda here; ttx is covering for the server team today and has a conflict, so we'll go to him next after desktop
[16:23] <lool> Pff damn Frenchs
[16:23] <ttx> lool: :P
[16:24] <slangasek> pitti: the "changes since alpha-2" list is quite nice, do we have someone who can document those in the tech overview?
[16:24] <pitti> o/
[16:24] <pitti> in personal unity with being the A3 release manager, I guess :)
[16:24] <slangasek> :-)
[16:24] <slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to document "changes since alpha-2" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus in the tech overview for alpha-3
[16:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to document "changes since alpha-2" from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus in the tech overview for alpha-3
[16:24] <slangasek> thanks
[16:25] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
[16:25] <ttx> o/
[16:25] <slangasek> ttx: bug 385475 is the only one I have tracked; any news from upstream?
[16:26] <ttx> slangasek: no news. I've escalated this. If the situation doesn't change *very quickly* I'll start designing backup solutions
[16:26] <slangasek> ok
[16:27] <slangasek> the package is in universe, so if upstream doesn't deliver, I guess we don't have any support committment?
[16:27] <ttx> true. But the plan was to move the likewise-open5 to replace likewise-open (4) in main.
[16:27] <slangasek> ok
[16:27] <ttx> That is what would be compromised is they don't deliver anything
[16:27] <ttx> s/is/if/
[16:28]  * ScottK is trying to get clamav 0.95.2 ready for a microversion update in Jaunty, but continuing 'fun' with clamav-milter is slowing the work.
[16:28] <slangasek> I also saw one a3-targeted spec that wasn't completed yet, server-karmic-kvm-qemu-packaging - is that on track?
[16:29] <ttx> kirkland just remilestoned it to a4. Package is in NEW queue but the version we want for karmic isn't released upstream yet.
[16:29] <slangasek> ok
[16:29] <ttx> So the work is done, but the feature can't land right now
[16:29]  * slangasek nods
[16:30] <slangasek> anything else for server team?
[16:30] <ttx> I'll start pushing Java libraries to the MIR process very soon
[16:30] <ttx> The ones we are 99.99% sure will be required for eucalyptus-in-main
[16:31] <slangasek> how many of those are coming?
[16:31] <ttx> and their fellow dependencies.
[16:31] <ttx> Last estimate is a total of 78
[16:31] <slangasek> oy
[16:31] <slangasek> please get those going ASAP, then :/
[16:31] <ScottK> It could be one if you like embedded code copies ....
[16:31] <lool> ouch
[16:32] <slangasek> as long as you don't mind one MIR that's rejected :)
[16:32] <ttx> I've gotten rid of most large things, so this is more a set of simple libraries
[16:32] <ttx> However, there is still a mountain of them, since nothing pushed them to main yet
[16:33]  * slangasek nods
[16:33] <ttx> I got rid of about 40 by playing tricks...
[16:33] <ttx> but now the tricks aren't worth it
[16:33] <slangasek> sure
[16:34] <ttx> and we are still at ~80.
[16:34] <ttx> To spread the load I'll start the 99.99 set next week.
[16:34] <slangasek> please keep us apprised of progress, then
[16:34] <ttx> but we can't complete that until we have a final idea of what Eucalyptus will finally require.
[16:35] <ttx> slangasek: Sure.
[16:35]  * pitti sighs
[16:35] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
[16:35] <slangasek> ttx: thanks for making yourself available :)
[16:35] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:35] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:35] <lool> Hotest topics are:
[16:35] <lool> * armv7 buildds: qemu probably wont be deployed as v7 boards to use as buildds are almost being shipped to IS and myself; we still lack BSP for them so it will take some time to set these as buildds (and we need to benchmark/evaluate them)
[16:35] <ttx> slangasek: my late pleasure :)
[16:35] <lool> * mx51 kernel: good progress from kernel team; probably wont make it for Alpha 3 but at least the kernel boots to console now, so it's easier to sort out remaining drivers issues
[16:36] <ogra> *grin* almost being shipped
[16:36] <lool> I don't have anything release worthy to discuss; things are delayed by lack of hardware mostly
[16:36] <slangasek> "almost" being shipped? :)
[16:37] <lool> slangasek: It was shipped yesterday but today I heard it wasn't...
[16:37] <slangasek> lool: what's "BSP"?
[16:37] <slangasek> heh
[16:37] <lool> Board Support Package: a tarball with binaries and source code to build your bootloader and kernel etc.
[16:37] <lool> Kind of a board SDK
[16:37] <slangasek> ok
[16:38] <lool> The other thing blocking on the marvell side is permission to publish which we had today
[16:38] <lool> So not much will happen for A3 (UNR drops planned next week)
[16:38] <ogra> the current buildd situation would probably be worth mentioning ?
[16:38] <lool> ogra: 17:35 < lool> * armv7 buildds: qemu probably wont be deployed as v7 boards to  use as buildds are almost being shipped to IS and myself; we  still lack BSP for them so it will take some time to set these as  buildds (and we need to benchmark/evaluate them)
[16:39] <lool> ogra: Oh you mean the v5 delays
[16:39] <ogra> i meant the build probs :)
[16:39] <lool> Yeah that's valid
[16:39] <ogra> yeah
[16:39] <lool> We have a bunch of builds failing due to timeouts
[16:39] <lool> We weren't able to reproduce on the porter box or on our boards
[16:39] <lool> It's affecting random packages like mesa and KDE when they lzma compress their .debs
[16:39] <ogra> the timeout is set to 10h on the armel builders now ...
[16:39] <ogra> which didnt suffice ...
[16:40] <lool> We didn't identify what caused that regression; Michael is working with IS in troubleshooting this
[16:40] <slangasek> ok
[16:41] <slangasek> on the kernel side, is the "boot to console" version going to be in the archive for a3, or is it still being tweaked out in git?
[16:41] <lool> My understanding was that it wouldn't be there
[16:42] <lool> I was hoping the kernel team would share more details; I think the rebase is still very rough
[16:42] <slangasek> alrighty
[16:42] <rtg_> AFAIK the console boot locks up after awhile.
[16:42] <lool> It's mostly good news because it means we aren't stuck there anymore with unknown delays in getting it working
[16:42] <slangasek> lool: 391588 is about banshee, which pitti's report says is not going to be default for karmic; should we drop the karmic targeting?
[16:43] <lool> slangasek: Ack
[16:43] <pitti> well, "most likely not"
[16:43] <pitti> the spec has some hard conditions, and right now it looks like they aren't going to be fixed by karmic
[16:44] <ogra> its very likely that banshee is only a fallout of a deeper layered vorbis/gstreamer issue
[16:44] <slangasek> ok, so perhaps that should be kept on the map for now
[16:44] <lool> Plus I never recall how to untrack for the dev series
[16:44] <ogra> probably until dyfet has more info, he is researching vorbis atm
[16:45] <slangasek> lool, ogra: anything else?
[16:45] <ogra> not from me
[16:45] <lool> I wrote what I had in the wiki page :)
[16:46] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[16:46] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
[16:46] <slangasek> rtg_, apw: hi
[16:46]  * rtg_ standing in for pgraner.
[16:46] <rtg_> Most of our other release tasks are in pretty good shape: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:46] <rtg_> Per the release meeting agenda, bugs 359338, 290153, 384579 are all in progress.
[16:46] <rtg_> I expect a full court press on the AA/ecryptfs and AA/DHCP issues since I consider them show-stoppers
[16:46] <rtg_> if AA is enabled by default.
[16:46] <rtg_> jdstrand tells me he's uploading a fix for the AA/dhcp issue.
[16:47] <rtg_> ARM still has some issues, but is booting on Babbage 1 and 2. Amit, Brad, Manoj and a Freescale engineer are
[16:47] <rtg_> working it full time.
[16:47] <rtg_> stop.
[16:47] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:48] <ScottK> rtg_: Please give me a ping after the upload for 290153.  I can test it.
[16:48] <lool> rtg_: I'm not sure we should cover it here, but do you have plans for Babbage 2.5 support in jaunty?  I understand it wont be a SRU after all?
[16:48] <rtg_> ScottK, actuall, keep in touch with apw on that as he's working it.
[16:48] <ScottK> OK.  Well assuming he reads his IRC, then he knows now.
[16:49] <apw> ack
[16:49] <rtg_> lool, Babbage in a topic branch (I think) for Jaunty. I'll have to confirm with Amit
[16:49] <slangasek> rtg_: what's the AA/DHCP issue?  I haven't seen mention of this
[16:49] <rtg_> DHCP was failing if AA was enabled.
[16:49] <slangasek> bug #?
[16:49] <rtg_> bug #400349
[16:50] <slangasek> thanks
[16:50] <rtg_> AFAIK there is only one bug preventing AA from being enabled by default
[16:51] <rtg_> i.e., the ecryptfs issues.
[16:52] <rtg_> thats pretty much it from me.
[16:52] <slangasek> should enabling it necessarily be delayed for that bug?  IIRC that bug was also present in jaunty, right?
[16:52]  * ttx disappears
[16:52] <rtg_> slangasek, that is what jjohansen has told me, but I was unaware of that.
[16:53] <rtg_> If so, then perhaps we _can_ enable it by default. I'll talk to him about it.
[16:53] <slangasek> ok
[16:53] <apw> it is correct that the behaviour exists in Jaunty, there is also a workaround
[16:53] <jjohansen> correct
[16:54] <jjohansen> the same work around applies to Karmic as well
[16:54] <rtg_> if that is the consensus, then I'd say lets turn it on.
[16:54] <jjohansen> there is another bug that was raised yesterday however that may cause problems
[16:54] <jjohansen> it breaks networking for people not using Network manager
[16:55] <jjohansen> lpn400349
[16:55] <rtg_> jjohansen, wasn't that the one jdstrand is fixing?
[16:55] <jdstrand> yes
[16:55] <jjohansen> rtg_: there are two components to it
[16:55] <jdstrand> a fix will be uploaded soon
[16:55] <jdstrand> (the dhcp3 part)
[16:55] <jjohansen> there is a kernel regression there
[16:56] <jjohansen> with a fixed profile it shouldn't cause networking to fail however
[16:56] <pitti> rtg_: do you plan another  kernel upload for a3? would be nice to do a pull on drm-intel-next, to get the latest fixes for alpha-3
[16:56] <rtg_> pitti, why would I pull from there? It needs to come Linus at this point.
[16:57] <pitti> rtg_: ah, ok; so, just the first part of the question then :)
[16:57] <apw> pitti, we should get a new -rc around monday i would presume
[16:57] <pitti> the userspace driver (2.8.0) will be released monday, and we were testing daily git snapshots
[16:57] <rtg_> pitti, if we decide to enable AA by default, then I'd do another upload.
[16:57] <pitti> but the kernel side needs some fixes pulled in as well
[16:57] <pitti> good, thanks
[16:57] <rtg_> pitti, ok, then they need to be proposed on the u-k-t list
[16:58] <slangasek> apw: but presumably also with a new ABI?  Best not to upload that Monday of the milestone unless there's a particular reason for it
[16:58] <apw> it would be an abi bumper yes
[16:58] <slangasek> (especially with release resources stretched a little thin next week due to DebConf)
[16:58] <cjwatson> FWIW I don't get to debconf until thursday
[16:59] <cjwatson> err. tuesday
[16:59] <cjwatson> days sorta blur
[16:59] <rtg_> slangasek, are you happy with the current kernel? We can postpone uploads until after A3.
[16:59] <pitti> ok, so we better find the grave installer problems on Monday :)
[16:59] <slangasek> rtg_: there are no screaming bugs jumping out at us in the milestone list, so yes, I'm happy :)
[17:00] <rtg_> slaok, then we'll just wait.
[17:00] <rtg_> slangasek, ^^
[17:00] <pitti> alrighty
[17:00] <rtg_> apw, did you note that?
[17:01] <pitti> rtg_: (the pending intel fixes are not OMGearthshattering)
[17:01] <apw> rtg ack
[17:01] <rtg_> pitti, common vernacular refers to kittens :)
[17:01] <slangasek> kitten shattering is unpleasant
[17:01] <rtg_> true
[17:01] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
[17:01] <slangasek> rtg_, apw: thanks, guys
[17:02] <slangasek> jjohansen: also thanks
[17:02] <cjwatson> main news this week is that we've dropped the proposed i586 change, because it turned out from tests that it didn't actually help
[17:02] <cjwatson> we're already building with -mtune=generic, and it turned out that gcc-4.4 changes gave us most of the benefits we saw in the earlier benchmarks
[17:02] <cjwatson> we may investigate -mtune=core2 in the future
[17:03] <rtg_> cjwatson, does that mean I can enable a true i386 flavour in ports?
[17:03] <cjwatson> still, it's good to have that actually verified from code
[17:03] <cjwatson> rtg_: yeah, looks like it
[17:03] <slangasek> "true i386"?
[17:03] <cjwatson> the -386 flavour that's existed for ages
[17:03] <rtg_> slangasek, i386 instruction set
[17:03] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:03] <Keybuk> rtg_: but we build everything with the i486 instruction set
[17:03] <slangasek> rtg_: the userspace binaries are all still built for the 486 insn set
[17:04] <slangasek> and IIRC, that gives problems with cmpxchg?
[17:04] <cjwatson> -386 is still less than -generic and there are cases where it has been useful
[17:04] <cjwatson> i.e. I have verifiably solved people's installation problems by pointing them at -386
[17:04] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:04] <cjwatson> so it isn't useless although it may be that it doesn't need to be as far down as 386
[17:04] <slangasek> cjwatson: not disputing that, just pointing out that there's no reason to have a true 386 kernel when the userspace won't run on 386
[17:04] <cjwatson> sure, 486 would be fine
[17:04] <Keybuk> if we have a -386 can we put pae into -generic? :) :) :)
[17:04] <cjwatson> aaaanyway
[17:05] <rtg_> Keybuk, right, 486 instruction set. there are only a few differences, cheif among them are the bus locking prefixes IIRC
[17:05] <cjwatson> Keybuk: which slows things down, why would you want that? :)
[17:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[17:05] <cjwatson> speaking of perf, Keybuk just filed bug 400746 which is critical for our efforts there
[17:05] <cjwatson> I've added it to our tracking page
[17:06] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I've already lost that battle with kees and his -fvogon-security-checks flags
[17:06] <cjwatson> it's more than all his flags put together apart from PIE (which isn't on by default), AIUI
[17:07] <cjwatson> our a3 specs are mostly on track; for rsyslog, we still need to complete a librelp MIR
[17:07] <cjwatson> and I have a bunch of code mostly written but need to upload for server-installer; that'll happen by Monday at the latest
[17:08] <cjwatson> Evan said on Wednesday that he's still happy aiming usb-creator-windows for a3, but that hasn't landed yet AFAICS so I'll check into that with him
[17:08]  * slangasek nods
[17:08] <slangasek> is someone working on the librelp MIR currently?
[17:08] <cjwatson> the ia32-libs bug on the status page is as you might expect best resolved by taking a deep breath and doing one of those horrific ia32-libs updates, but I think I have that figured out
[17:09] <cjwatson> slangasek: mterry has been checking into it with upstream
[17:09] <slangasek> ok
[17:09] <slangasek> ia32-libs> yes, I keep looking at that bug and using it as an incentive to poke at multiarch
[17:09] <pitti> I'll follow up on that with dobey
[17:10] <slangasek> pitti: on ia32-libs?
[17:10] <cjwatson> I'm working on it in https://launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/ia32-libs-testing
[17:10] <pitti> slangasek: hm?
[17:11] <slangasek> pitti: you'll follow up on "that"?  Are you referring to ubuntuone?
[17:11] <pitti> slangasek: yes, to the slow ubuntuone startup
[17:11] <slangasek> ok
[17:12] <cjwatson> nothing more here ...
[17:13] <slangasek> no questions from me
[17:13] <slangasek> anyone else?
[17:14] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:14] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
[17:14] <ScottK> \o
[17:14] <slangasek> ScottK: hi
[17:14] <ScottK> No major news for MOTU.
[17:14] <ScottK> Still considering a GHC6 update.
[17:15] <ScottK> Always more work to do on REVU and uus queue, but no suprise there.
[17:15] <cjwatson> NBS is quite big at the moment - are there any coordinated transition efforts happening? thinking of things like libkrb53
[17:15] <slangasek> are we missing information needed to decide on ghc6?
[17:15] <ScottK> cjwatson: There are not.  We can take a look at that.
[17:16] <ScottK> We need to work on killing off more boost versions too.
[17:16]  * ScottK will send mail to the MOTU ML to remind people.
[17:16] <cjwatson> cool, thanks
[17:16] <ScottK> For Kubuntu Alpha 3 we have KDE 4.3 RC2.
[17:16] <cjwatson> I do a few haphazardly as I notice them but it needs more than just me obviously :)
[17:17] <cjwatson> (and I'm sure other archive admins are doing bits and pieces too)
[17:17] <ScottK> We should (not yet uploaded I don't think) have our first Kubuntu Ayatana/Dx contribution uploaded before Alpha 3 too.
[17:17] <slangasek> I can probably spend some time on NBS today
[17:17] <ScottK> Kubuntu Netbook Edition image will be new for Alpha 3.
[17:17] <slangasek> \o/
[17:18] <pitti> sorry, I fell off the internet
[17:18] <pitti> any q for me from the last 7 minutes?
[17:18] <ScottK> Features are mostly on track.  No major problems I'm aware of.
[17:18] <ScottK> pitti: No.
[17:18] <cjwatson> ScottK: KNE> is it working properly now?
[17:19] <ScottK> cjwatson: I didn't test today's image yet, so I don't know for sure.
[17:19] <ScottK> Except for the one background image it's all been good so far.
[17:19] <slangasek> ScottK: I put a couple of bugs in the agenda under MOTU, high-importance bugs for universe packages; neither is assigned to anyone currently, I don't know if you want to take ownership of those and rustle up some MOTU to take them?
[17:19] <ScottK> slangasek: I'll try and drum someone up.
[17:19]  * ScottK decides to actually read the agenda now.
[17:20] <ScottK> I'll talk to slangasek after the meeting about netbook specifics for Alpha 3.
[17:20] <ScottK> That's all I have.
[17:21] <slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to mail MOTU ML about NBS cleanups
[17:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to mail MOTU ML about NBS cleanups
[17:21] <slangasek> ScottK: ok, thanks
[17:21] <slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
[17:22] <slangasek> empathy has landed, which has impacted CD sizes quite a bit
[17:22] <cody-somerville> gdm has landed, its impacted CD sizes quite a bit :P
[17:22] <slangasek> pitti: I think you said you'd removed the last of the langpacks from one of the CDs to get them down to size?
[17:22] <pitti> I did
[17:22] <pitti> today's are within the boundaries again
[17:22] <slangasek> cody-somerville: AIUI the fix for that is known and in progress, unlike for Ubuntu...
[17:22]  * pitti sheds a tear
[17:23] <cjwatson> on DVDs, I'm seriously considering reducing the number of language-support-* packages present
[17:23] <slangasek> right - so we've gotten karmic to fit on a CD, at the cost of it being English only
[17:23] <cjwatson> would anyone object to that?
[17:23] <pitti> slangasek: for Ubuntu, the soyuz change for ripping out gnome help files has landed, but needs buildd changes still; but at least it's underway now
[17:23] <slangasek> cjwatson: if that's what it takes, I say go for it
[17:23] <slangasek> pitti: ok, great
[17:23] <slangasek> pitti: how much is that going to win us?
[17:23] <pitti> +1 for dropping some lang-support
[17:24] <pitti> slangasek: potentially, in the order of 50 to 80 MB (can't quite remember)
[17:24] <pitti> slangasek: of course we wouldn't actually get this, since we want to have some langpacks on the CDs
[17:24] <pitti> (which bring back the files which we ripped out)
[17:24] <slangasek> one possible size savings for CDs would be to figure out how to get rid of gtkhtml now that we have webkit (for epiphany)
[17:24] <pitti> that too
[17:24] <slangasek> pitti: 50-80MB> wow, ok
[17:24] <pitti> we
[17:25] <pitti> we don't ship epiphany, but it's pulled in by empathy anyway
[17:25] <slangasek> yes
[17:25] <pitti> so yelp etc. can now use it as well
[17:25] <slangasek> will that make the yelp binary smaller?
[17:25] <pitti> ah, yelp uses xul, not gtkhtml, ignore me
[17:25] <slangasek> ah :(
[17:26] <slangasek> let's get rid of xulrunner, should be a weekend's work
[17:26] <pitti> hah
[17:26] <ogra> not switch FF to webkit ?
[17:26] <slangasek> anything else we might be able to trim?
[17:27] <slangasek> :/
[17:28] <cjwatson> I got rid of a few unnecessary installer components already
[17:28] <cjwatson> but won't have made a huge difference, a few hundred KB ...
[17:28]  * slangasek nods
[17:29] <pitti> slangasek: FYI: tar c  /usr/share/gnome/help/ | gzip | wc -c -> 92 MB
[17:29] <pitti> 82, sorry
[17:29] <slangasek> ok... everyone keep your eyes peeled for possible savings, please - if we need to grab people to help chisel a library or two free, we can probably do that
[17:29] <slangasek> pitti: ah, nice
[17:29] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:30] <slangasek> one minute - any last words?
[17:30] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:30] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:30.
[17:30] <slangasek> in fact, zero minutes :)
[17:30] <slangasek> thanks, folks
[17:30] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:31] <ScottK> slangasek: Where do you want to discuss the netbook stuff?
[17:31] <slangasek> ScottK: #-release, I suppose
[17:31] <ScottK> KO
[17:31] <ScottK> ok even