[00:03] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: apachelogger * r3 kubuntu-netbook-default-settings/debian/copyright: Use latest revision for copyright's format spec
[00:03] <JontheEchidna> toma: filing a bug is fine, or asking here. not a big deal really
[00:03] <toma> k
[00:03] <JontheEchidna> we're due for merging with debian anyways, now that they've got 4.3 packaged
[00:04] <apachelogger> toma: btw, in case you don't know yet, patches.ubuntu.com is the perfect place to check which patches we have floating around :)
[00:07] <toma> JontheEchidna: found the wiki page, followed the instructions ;-)
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> :)
[00:34] <DaskreeCH> So what still uses KDE3 on the CD now?
[00:34] <JontheEchidna> nuttin
[00:35] <DaskreeCH> \o/
[00:35] <DaskreeCH> What will be recommended KDe3?
[00:35] <DaskreeCH> K3b ?
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> K3b is at its KDE4 version in 9.10
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> I believe we're dragging libgtk2.0-0 in via OO.o tho :( Shouldn't be an issue once the KDE4 integration stuff hits
[00:36] <JontheEchidna> I think shtylman said it'd come in time for alpha3
[00:37] <DaskreeCH> \o/
[00:38] <DaskreeCH> Wait so no gtk on the CD either?
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> right, gtk is undesirable on the CD
[00:46] <Monika|K> yeah, get rid of evil gnome footprints ;)
[00:48] <DaskreeCH> They have big feet
[00:49] <DaskreeCH> So anyone looked at how much space we have saved?
[01:45] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: shtylman better hurry then.
[01:46] <JontheEchidna> it's all upstream now
[01:47] <ScottK> OK.  So what's the hold up?
[01:48] <DaskreeCH> sun^WOracle ?
[01:49] <ScottK> DaskreeCH: No.  I'm reasonably certain the upstream in question is go-ooo and not snoracle.
[01:54] <DaskreeCH> Right so that's Novell?MicroNovell :)
[03:24] <shtylman> ScottK: I think the main integration points are done..I don't know if the debian packages have been created with the kde4 OO integration ... I do know there are a few bugs I need to look at
[03:24] <DaskreeCH> How well is upstream KDe4 integration going ?
[03:26] <shtylman> slowly :)
[03:28] <DaskreeCH> Not a great answer but is it going well?
[03:28] <DaskreeCH> Slowly and badly is just depressing
[03:29] <shtylman> well...the bulk of the work was done weeks/months ago
[03:29] <shtylman> and I think they made debian packages from it
[03:29] <shtylman> cause there was a recent bug report against it
[03:30] <shtylman> but I don't know if ubuntu packages have been made
[03:33] <DaskreeCH> ah so what's left after the imposing bulk has been packaged?
[03:33] <shtylman> um...I think someone else was doing the kde address book integration
[03:33] <shtylman> but I don't know how that is going...
[03:35] <ScottK> shtylman: My vote would be to get it into the archive sooner rather that later.
[03:35] <DaskreeCH> Where does OO use the addressbook?
[03:35] <DaskreeCH>  Speaking of which Why doesn't KDE use the stupid address book?
[03:35] <shtylman> DaskreeCH: no idea...but there was integration in there somewhere
[03:36]  * ScottK guesses there is mail merge functionality
[03:36] <DaskreeCH> Ah mebbe
[03:37] <DaskreeCH> But back to why doesn't KDE use the address book it should really pull basically all personal details from there
[03:37] <DaskreeCH> Or keep them them there
[03:38] <shtylman> dunno...noone has gotten around to it
[07:10] <DaskreeCH> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware
[07:10] <DaskreeCH> badly needs updating
[09:47] <Quintasan> Hello
[11:00] <Mamarok> isn't 4.2.4 for jaunty in the backports?
[11:12] <tsimpson> !info kdelibs5 jaunty-backports
[11:14] <tsimpson> !info kdelibs5 kubuntu-updates
[11:15] <tsimpson> it looks like it's only in the PPA
[11:17] <Mamarok> well, I wold have expected it to end in the backports at least
[12:07] <nixternal> mornin'
[12:48] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: apachelogger * r4 kubuntu-netbook-default-settings/debian/ (changelog copyright): kubuntu-netbook-default-settings (9.10.0) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
[14:07] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: apachelogger * r5 kubuntu-netbook-default-settings/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc: Add plasma-desktop-appletsrc based on Tonio's proposal
[14:10] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: apachelogger * r6 kubuntu-netbook-default-settings/COPYING: Add COPYING file
[14:13] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: apachelogger * r7 kubuntu-netbook-default-settings/debian/changelog: releasing version 9.10.0
[14:19] <milian> amarok-dbg from jaunty-backports/main does not contain dbg symbols for libamarok_collection-ipodcollection.so
[14:21] <milian> who is responsible for that?
[14:21] <milian> i.e. whom should I nag about it to fix it ;-)
[15:29] <apachelogger> bug #396206
[16:02] <apachelogger> bug #376576
[16:11] <WanderingKnight> hey there
[16:11] <WanderingKnight> I'm experiencing high Xorg usage with Kubuntu 9.04 using the Launchpad PPA repos for 4.3 rc2
[16:12] <WanderingKnight> I just went into #kde-devel and thiago told me there were problems with high memory usage fixed last week
[16:13] <ScottK> If you can get specifics, we can look into patching.
[16:14] <Mamarok> ScottK: check with thiago eventually?
[16:14] <WanderingKnight> yeah that was what I was thinking
[16:14] <ScottK> Mamarok: I don't really have time to investigate today, but if someone can nail down what was changed, we can look into it.
[16:15] <WanderingKnight> either way, it's a brand new machine with 4 GB of RAM and after a couple of days Xorg is taking over 600 MB
[16:15] <WanderingKnight> and I've got 400 MB of swap usage
[16:15] <WanderingKnight> I'll see if I can ask thiago around
[16:15] <ScottK> WanderingKnight: If it's xorg usage, it's probably not KDE specific, I wouldn't think.
[16:15] <WanderingKnight> hmm
[16:15] <ScottK> WanderingKnight: Intel graphics?
[16:15] <WanderingKnight> nope
[16:15] <WanderingKnight> nvidia
[16:15]  * ScottK doesn't know about that.
[16:15] <Mamarok> well, AFAICT, thiago was talking about trunk RC2 of last week
[16:17] <WanderingKnight> I can't know whether there were updates or not this week since I just installed this PC
[16:18] <Mamarok> WanderingKnight: there are memory problems with Xorg for some people, so not KDE related, as ScottK already mentionned
[16:19] <WanderingKnight> hmm
[16:19] <WanderingKnight> thanks
[16:19] <WanderingKnight> this is on nvidia driver with Kubuntu 9.04 amd64
[16:19] <Mamarok> wnadyou should use htop (package is in the repos) and check what exactly is eating the memory
[16:19] <Mamarok> *you
[16:20] <Mamarok> htop is an improved top btw
[16:20] <WanderingKnight> /usr/bin/X is the one
[16:20] <WanderingKnight> :S
[16:21] <Mamarok> well, maybe ask in #ubuntu then, as this is more a problem of the underlying system
[16:22] <WanderingKnight> ok
[16:22] <WanderingKnight> thanks
[16:22] <Mamarok> WanderingKnight: and it's not triggered by some application?
[16:22] <WanderingKnight> I... wouldn't think so
[16:23] <WanderingKnight> I mean, this is on idle, even though applications are open... but there aren't apps making heavy usage of graphics
[16:23] <WanderingKnight> mainly kwin effects and the regular Qt usage
[16:34] <mgraesslin> ScottK: the memory leak is fixed with rev 995379 and 995380
[16:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: ^^^ What do you think?
[16:44] <Mamarok> the "report a bug.." option in the help menu in KDE apps doesn't work in Jaunty with 4.2.96
[16:47] <ScottK> Seems it's still using b.k.o instead of LP in Karmic too.
[16:47]  * ScottK thought nixternal fixed that.
[16:48] <Mamarok> ScottK: it doesn't use bko neither, Dr. Konqi doesn't start, nor anything else
[16:49] <ScottK> OK.  So slightly less broken in Karmic then.
[16:49]  * ScottK looks at nixternal for enlightenment (like that'll work).
[17:13] <nixternal> ScottK: jaunty...I fixed it in Karmic
[17:13] <nixternal> oh, the reason it won't work in jaunty if it was backported, is because of apport-kde
[17:13] <nixternal> you need to s/kde/qt for jaunty patch
[17:21]  * nixternal heads out for a bit, will be back later for some hacking
[17:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: backport I suppose
[17:44] <apachelogger> !info choqok karmic
[17:45] <ScottK> apachelogger: If we can get some performance fixes backported, it seems reasonable to do, although it might make more sense to see about upstream doing it in 4.3.1.
[17:46] <apachelogger> oh?
[17:46] <apachelogger> that is for 4.4?
[17:46] <apachelogger> if so it should indeed be considered upstream for 4.3.1
[17:47] <ScottK> apachelogger: TLDR, so dunno.
[17:47] <ScottK> Making assumptions due to overall business and lack of enough caring.
[17:47] <apachelogger> hum
[17:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: it is a memleak
[17:48] <apachelogger> so it should be fixed via SRU as well
[17:48] <apachelogger> which reminds me, is anyone ever going to fix the python of update-notifier-kde?
[17:49] <apachelogger> leaking like its gonna die any day
[17:52] <apachelogger> Nightrose: will amarok ever become usable again?
[17:52] <ScottK> apachelogger: Works here.
[17:52] <apachelogger> working != usable
[17:52] <ScottK> apachelogger: Also I misread which python foo*-kde you were referring to.
[17:53]  * ScottK was thinking of the printer thingy.  It came up on #debian-qt-kde earlier today.
[17:53] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: the memleak in Oxygen has of course been backported for 4.3.0
[17:59] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks to choqok kubuntunetbook is active on identil.ca too.
[18:00] <ScottK> That should make fans of coercive licensing happy.
[18:05] <apachelogger> \o/
[18:17] <Nightrose> apachelogger: ?
[18:17] <apachelogger> slow, really, slow incredibly awfully slow
[18:17] <apachelogger> with builtin mem eater
[18:22]  * ScottK now has the 'configure won't go away' problem with microblogging widget.
[18:22] <ScottK> Really annoying.
[18:31] <Tscheesy> ScottK : i have to configure my user-Name mit a small [t] to get conneted - when i change my registred name afterwards to [T]scheesy i can see _my_ posts instead of the other people on's
[18:42] <ScottK> Riddell: If you're around, would you please promote kubuntu-netbook-default-settings.  MIR is approved.
[19:04] <_abbenormal> hello all
[19:06] <ScottK> Hello _abbenormal
[19:07] <_abbenormal> is there any work being done to kubuntu and vdpau for extra support im trying to get xine setup for vdpau and not find any good info on it is there maybe a place ive not found yet
[19:08] <_abbenormal> hey ScottK
[19:09] <ScottK> Not that I know of.
[19:09]  * ScottK suspects that is reasonably desktop agnostic and #mythbuntu might be a good place to take it up.
[19:11] <_abbenormal> im having an issue and worried about if i remove xine that ill corrupt kubuntu beyond my scope of experience
[19:11] <_abbenormal> well would maybe be a place to ask but i dont use myth
[19:12] <ScottK> If you remove the package, you'll get told what else gets removed.
[19:12] <_abbenormal> im a vdr user and not found anyone using vdr with kubuntu yet
[19:13] <_abbenormal> ok i dont mind issue i know how to reload it lol
[19:14] <_abbenormal> figured id ask before i went dumb and did something stupid but then i guess its nix fix it till it broken
[19:15] <_abbenormal> ok thanks ill try
[19:37]  * ScottK wonders if akonadi needs some splitting.
[19:37]  * ScottK thinks something called akonadi-console in the development section should not be installed by default.
[19:40] <ScottK> seele: Is there some way we can get http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/AppsMenuReorganization to go away.  In my brief experience with the Internet piece of it, it is deeply confusing.
[19:40] <ScottK> ... deeply confusing and a usability nightmare.
[19:44] <apachelogger> +1
[20:19] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: apachelogger * r84 kdelibs/debian/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[20:19] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: Add kubuntu_70_revert_submenus.diff to revert upstream revision 930451
[20:19] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: introducing subcategories for the internet category.
[20:19] <CIA-74> Kubuntu: Also see http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/AppsMenuReorganization
[20:21] <seele> ScottK: i'm not sure what you are asking.. you want the page to go away or you want to fix kickoff so the page goes away?
[20:23] <apachelogger> seele: for now that the categories go away from KDE 4.3
[20:23] <apachelogger> the change is only applied to internet
[20:23] <apachelogger> which is super awkward
[20:23] <apachelogger> and in extend the whole proposal should go away since it is missing point
[20:23] <apachelogger> rationales with 3 browser
[20:24] <apachelogger> what average user got 3 browsers installed anyway
[20:24] <seele> i'm still confused
[20:24] <seele> so a flat list of apps?
[20:25] <apachelogger> seele: yep
[20:25] <apachelogger> however, much more important is: flat list in 4.3
[20:25] <apachelogger> as said, the whole reorganization is _only_ applied to Internet at this point
[20:25] <seele> so... list 100 applications in the top level of teh Applications tab in kickoff?
[20:25] <apachelogger> -.-
[20:25] <apachelogger> sec
[20:26] <seele> or are you talking about the proposed submenu structure?
[20:26] <seele> because the proposed 3 level organization isn't adding anything
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> basically they took the Network subfolder and arbitrarily subdivided it further
[20:33] <apachelogger> seele: http://aplg.kollide.net/screencasts/kde-subcategories-43.ogv
[20:35] <apachelogger> I think we have just enough apps in each category to fill the available list space without a scrollbar, the changes break it down into additional grouping that don't add any particular benefit IMHO
[20:36] <apachelogger> I suppose the additional grouping largely depends on language aswell, in english you might expect app 'foobar' in subcategory "cat" but in french you might expect it in the 'barfoo' subcat
[20:37] <maco> whether miro should be sound/video or internet always throws me off
[20:37] <maco> its BOTH
[20:37] <apachelogger> the finer the grouping the more of such cases arise I would suspect
[20:37] <apachelogger> it's the same with kontact
[20:37] <apachelogger> is it internet or office
[20:37] <apachelogger> is it both?
[20:38] <apachelogger> BBIAB
[20:40] <seele> apachelogger: i'm going to have to find headphones, my laptop speakers aren't loud enough for me to hear you
[20:50] <dtchen> maco: i'd venture it's more useful in the latter
[20:51] <maco> dtchen, thats my thinking as well since it needs to get online to download anything. they call it "internet tv" ... but its in the sound/video category
[20:52] <maco> whats interesting is you can also use it as your bittorrent client
[20:54] <dtchen> rgreening: i seem to be able to trigger massive awkwardness using pulse and Xine-based clients (all karmic) that i can't reproduce using pulse and any GSt-based clients. my test cases continue to be amarok and banshee for audio, kaffeine and totem for video+audio
[20:55] <valgaav> I'm with apachelogger on this ... I mean I hate the sub cathegories in 'Games' ... I think most users have just like 5-6 favorite games ... Splitting it to subcategories is something I have to manually get rid off
[20:55] <dtchen> rgreening: there are many potential focal points: GSt in karmic has undergone a complete ringbuffer rewrite for the pulse backend, which makes it _much_ better
[20:55] <rgreening> cool.
[20:56] <rgreening> remind me again why pulse  + xine/GStreamer is necessary under KDE (I'm just curious and forgetful)
[20:56] <dtchen> rgreening: unfortunately, GSt is still quite lacking for DVD nav
[20:56] <rgreening> :)
[20:56] <valgaav> generally It would be great if there was some global kickoff setting "turn off subcategories"
[20:57] <dtchen> rgreening: i doubt GSt will be able to replace Xine for karmic
[20:58] <dtchen> rgreening: so the piecemeal approach to getting the audio stack aligned is a package that sets phonon's preferences to pulseaudio as primary
[20:58] <rgreening> that's my thinking as well...
[20:58] <dtchen> that'll be going into the ubuntu-audio-developer ppa
[20:58] <maco> oh right that reminds me
[20:58] <rgreening> send me the PPA and I can test it out
[20:59] <dtchen> i suspect there will be much breakage reporting, since i personally can reproduce it on a fairly wide range of audio hardware (usb, hda, ac'97, firewire)
[20:59] <maco> why is "default" not an option for phonon's output device?
[20:59] <dtchen> maco: it is the default option; read the source code
[20:59] <maco> you have firewire audio?
[20:59] <dtchen> the actual string reported by the notification is arguably wrong
[21:00] <maco> :-/ systemsettings -> multimedia only offers alc883 analog, alc883 digital, pulseaudio
[21:00] <ScottK> seele: I meant what apachelogger said.  The whole subdividing thing is silly and awkward.  I've been using it for ~a week and a half and I still don't know what subdivision stuff is in.
[21:00] <dtchen> the xine backend opens default followed by plug:iec958
[21:00] <ScottK> seele: To the extent I know it's because I've gradually memorized the menu, not because it's inherently sensible.
[21:01] <seele> ScottK: i dont see what value it adds.. i dont think it offsets the cost of having to scroll enough to be a benefit
[21:01] <dtchen> it unfortunately still opens things according to index first, which is wrong; it should use the human strings and fall back to indices
[21:01] <milian> is there a ppa for qt 4.5.2 ?
[21:01] <ScottK> seele: I find it very confusing.  I'd appreciate it if you'd put on your KDE usability hat and go beat the relevant parties.
[21:01] <milian> I just encountered a bug in qt 4.50 which got fixed in later releases
[21:02] <dtchen> i'll rant a bit in a blog on why plug:hw:0 is bad and plug:hw:"NVidia" is good
[21:03] <milian> and the bug crashed plasma
[21:03] <milian> Riddell: you told me only critical updates get done, is that "critical" ?
[21:03] <ScottK> Riddell: If you can find a patch that just fixes the crash, yet.
[21:04] <ScottK> err milian^^
[21:04] <seele> ScottK: is this from upstream? from the looks of the wiki page i thought people didn't like it
[21:04] <ScottK> For "update all of Qt" it'd have to be earthshattering, not just a crash.
[21:04] <ScottK> seele: It is from upstream.
[21:05] <milian> narf
[21:05] <ScottK> seele: Agreed.  The wiki page says no one like it.  Didn't stop implementation.  FOSS is fun.
[21:05] <milian> do all distributions do it that way? or is there one which gives you these kind of updated libs right away?
[21:05] <ScottK> All binary distributions do it that way.
[21:06] <ScottK> If you want updated right away you can run our development release.
[21:06] <ScottK> Updated right away has it's good and bad points.
[21:06] <milian> I want bugfix updates right away...
[21:06] <milian> not neccessarily feature updates
[21:06] <seele> argh.. i hate kickoff to start with, especially since it is maintained by plasma
[21:06] <seele> getting any changes made in plasma is such a nightmare
[21:06]  * ScottK goes back to being away.
[21:07] <apachelogger> seele: +1
[21:07] <firephoto> milian: there's 4.5.2 in a ppa. been running it since it was out. no issues. jaunty.
[21:08] <milian> firephoto: can you give me the ppa? I couldn't find it
[21:08] <maco> milian, rolling release distros like Arch may not.... they often use whatever's in version control upstream
[21:08] <firephoto> milian: right now i'm using the one out of the debfx ppa
[21:08] <milian> I might want to check that out then... well I think I'll wait for another chakra release before though
[21:09] <milian> firephoto: can you just give me the line from your sources.list please?
[21:09] <milian> or is it that one: https://launchpad.net/~debfx/+archive/ppa ?
[21:09] <firephoto> milian:  hold on, it might not be in that archive anymore looking.
[21:10] <milian> yeah, can't find qt in those packages
[21:10] <firephoto> i was running the version from the arora ppa but that one had phonon built and some things were acting slow from that build.
[21:10] <firephoto> https://launchpad.net/~debfx/+archive/qt that's what i'm running.
[21:11] <milian> ah great, thanks
[21:11] <seele> ScottK: put it in a list for the next Kubuntu meeting.. we'll have to discuss some of the divergences we are maintaining because of stuff like this
[21:12] <firephoto> np. i'm with you on the need for updates more so. big patches seem to make more problems than just following upstream from my point of view. ;)
[21:12] <seele> i think there are still a few UI patches we maintain for kickoff too
[21:12]  * seele doesn't understand how in one condition aseigo wants to be efficient and reduce mouse movement, and then in the other wants to reduce visual noise and increase mouse movement
[21:32] <rgreening> seele: simple, he has a splitr personality which is participating in a virtual tug-of-war.
[21:33] <rgreening> it's the "tastes great" ... "less filling" mentality :P
[21:34] <rgreening> Personally, I'd rather move the wheel to scroll down a list than physically move the mouse ove the arrow, click and then possibly repeat more than once.
[21:34] <rgreening> deeply nested menus are a PITA
[21:35] <rgreening> invariably, I end up using krunner to launch apps, as the menu doesn't really help in quickly locating apps
[21:37]  * JontheEchidna too
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> or sometimes I open kickoff and use it like krunner
[21:44] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: any good with writing init.d scripts :) or debugging them :)
[21:44]  * rgreening has a brain fart happening atm
[21:44] <JontheEchidna> nope
[21:44] <rgreening> :(
[21:44] <rgreening> lol
[21:47] <dtchen> rgreening: shoot
[21:48] <rgreening> dtchen: hehe... I'm working on a package for tacacs+.. can't get the init script to work correctly.
[21:48] <rgreening> It's in my lp
[21:48] <dtchen> i also tend to use the search feature in the menu, but if i don't position the cursor just right, it executes a search for whatever i've typed :/
[21:48] <rgreening> dtchen: https://launchpad.net/~roderick-greening/+archive/ppa/
[21:48] <dtchen> i hate menus
[21:48] <rgreening> lol
[21:49]  * rgreening wants better voice recognition sw, so he can say launch *
[21:51] <dtchen> ok, will look in a couple hours; need to finish errands now. bug me later if necessary.
[21:54] <rgreening> kk. ty dtchen
[21:57]  * apachelogger opens up a bottle of bubbly
[21:57]  * apachelogger loves how bottle fits bubbly :D
[21:58] <rgreening> you rebel you apachelogger
[21:58]  * apachelogger hands rgreening a glass
[21:58] <rgreening> why ty apachelogger
[21:58]  * rgreening sips
[21:58] <rgreening> tingles
[21:58] <rgreening> :)
[21:59] <apachelogger> this tingly feeling in ze belly...
[22:33] <maco> i dont use the applications tab of the menu because i dont understand it
[22:33] <maco> well i mean, i guess i understand it...kinda...but the extra submenus confuse me...sometimes its not clear which one something will be in. it's easier to search
[22:34] <maco> might make it easier to find out what menu it's in if after searching it showed the results with headings like Internet -> Browsers: Firefox and Games -> Arcade: Frets on Fire if i search for "fire" (for example..dunno if FoF is in a sub-category or not)
[22:41] <maco> :-/ dtchen i find there's a lag when i hit the volume keys on my keyboard now. i press a few times and nothing happens, so i press some more...2 or 3 seconds later, it responds and overshoots what i wanted since that lack of immediate feedback made me press too much
[22:42] <rgreening> dtchen: I got the init script working... some creative debuging and copious "echo $SOMEVAR"
[22:42] <rgreening> :)
[23:20] <apachelogger> maco: I suppose the delayed feedback is to app startup?
[23:24] <maco> apachelogger, app startup?
[23:26] <apachelogger> maco: I think the notification is handled through a seperate app
[23:26] <apachelogger> which might be the reason for the delay
[23:29] <maco> not just the notification though, the sound doesnt change for a few seconds either
[23:29] <maco> and its a rather recent thing....
[23:44] <vorian> I have an app here that the new fancy ayatana stuff did not work for
[23:45] <vorian> qwit