=== asac_ is now known as asac
robert_ancellTheMuso, are you going to package gnome-mag 0.15.7?01:37
TheMusorobert_ancell: oh I missed that upload. Yes, I will do it, thanks.02:34
robert_ancellTheMuso, cool.  I thought it might have slipped through02:35
=== hggdh_ is now known as hggdh
robert_ancellTheMuso, can you upload compiz 0.8.2-0ubuntu15?03:41
TheMusorobert_ancell: Sure. I assume its in bzr?03:45
TheMusonvm found it03:46
TheMusorobert_ancell: where is ubuntu15?03:49
robert_ancellTheMuso, yes, it's in bzr03:53
TheMusohrm ok, I don't see it anywhere03:56
robert_ancellTheMuso, oh, it's under the compiz user: lp:~compiz/compiz/ubuntu04:00
TheMusoYeah thats what I pulled.04:06
TheMusooh its ubuntu1404:07
TheMuso...or not04:07
TheMusoLP might be playing up.04:07
robert_ancellTheMuso, my bad.  I hadn't pushed.  Should be there now04:09
TheMusoOk thanks.04:10
TheMusorobert_ancell: The package FTBF sfor me.04:16
TheMuso*FTBFs for04:16
robert_ancellTheMuso, hmm... i'll fix that...04:17
robert_ancellTheMuso, the compiz package has patches that apply to files in debian/ - have you ever seen that before?  I'm probably going to remove those patches and just apply directly04:28
TheMusorobert_ancell: No never seen that. Thats rather stupid if you ask me.04:29
robert_ancellTheMuso, ok, updated.  Should build now04:56
TheMusorobert_ancell: ok thanks05:15
TheMusorobert_ancell: uploaded.05:31
robert_ancellTheMuso, thanks05:54
TheMusorobert_ancell: np06:00
robert_ancellTheMuso, btw, are you also aware onboard 0.91.2 has been released?06:20
TheMusorobert_ancell: No, I will update it later.06:35
pittiGood morning07:34
pittimac_v: no manpages for gdm.schemas; gconf provides inline explanations (or not, if the author didn't supply them)07:35
pittihyperair: sounds like a known bug07:35
mac_vpitti: the gconf doesnt have all the options, listed in the gdm.schemas , or maybe i'm not looking at the right place... i just want to turn on the auto login and set the timer from 30->10 secs... any ideas?07:45
pittimac_v: timed login doesn't work ATM, I'm afraid; autologin is currently defined in /etc/gdm/custom.conf07:49
mac_vpitti: ok.... also do you have any plans on removing/moving the Language,accesibility & keyboard options?07:50
pittiwell, the entire design of that greeter is at disposition, I guess07:50
pittibut for now I'm still worried in making it work (DX team will make it pretty)07:50
* pitti pokes at bug 401201 and bug 39510307:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 401201 in gdm "Files in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ aren't sourced anymore" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40120107:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395103 in gdm "Gnome doesn't have my configured keyboard layout after login anymore" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39510307:51
mac_vpitti: moving the those options to a menu item labelled "Options" , as they are not frequently used anyway07:51
* mac_v feels uncomfortable with the gdm , likes the gdm to look something non-fedora07:54
mac_vpitti: i just need to add "AutomaticLoginEnable=True"  in /etc/gdm/custom.conf after the [daemon] line.. right? just asking , dont want to mess things up08:01
pittihey asac08:01
asacmoin moin ;)08:01
pittiasac: yes, and AutomaticLogin=yourusername08:02
pittierm, mac_v ^08:02
mac_vpitti: ok... thank you08:02
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
mac_vasac: about editing the ff35 link which points to your blog? , for the firefox-3.5-gnome-support08:04
robert_ancellhey pitti08:06
pittihey robert_ancell, how was your weekend?08:10
robert_ancellpitti, good08:10
asacmac_v: what?08:10
asacmac_v: what do you suggest?08:11
mac_vasac: we discussed the other day on the ubuntu mozilla irc,maybe you forgot, you could add a mention in the firefox 3.5 link that mentions the need to add the firefox-3.5-gnome-support package in addition in Jaunty, some users are getting confused, why firefox 3.5 doesn get set as the default08:13
ubottuFirefox 3.5 Final is available for Jaunty by installing the package firefox-3.5 | FF3.5 is referred to as Shiretoko on your UI, see http://is.gd/1reB3 for an explanation | Hardy & Intrepid: http://is.gd/1jkNY08:13
mac_vs/that mentions/to mention08:14
asacmac_v: thanks for the reminder. added08:19
pittigeser: are you sure that the bug in gdm is exactly the same? when I switch to German keyboard layout in console-setup, now gdm itself uses US layout08:23
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone08:24
pittihey chrisccoulson08:25
chrisccoulsonhey pitti08:25
chrisccoulsongood weekend ?08:25
pittiyes, I had; quiet, but relaxing; and you?08:28
seb128good morning there08:28
seb128hey pitti!08:29
pittibonjour seb12808:29
chrisccoulsonpitti - my weekend was quite relaxing too, apart from moving my computer in to its new home08:31
chrisccoulsonhey seb12808:31
seb128hi chrisccoulson08:31
pittichrisccoulson: you move your computer without moving along yourself?08:31
chrisccoulsonpitti - i only moved it in to another room in the house. the old room has to be used for something else now ;)08:32
didrocksgood morning o/08:35
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i did the gnome-settings-daemon update last night. i dropped the gstreamer volume patch from the update, seeing as we're now using the pulseaudio volume control applet - i wasn't sure whether you wanted to do that though08:35
chrisccoulsoni can re-add it again if not ;)08:35
seb128no that's good08:35
chrisccoulsoncool. the notifications patch needed a bit of reworking to work with the new code too08:35
* seb128 is catching up on weekend emails now and will do sponsoring after that08:38
seb128pitti, gdm 2.27.4 tarball available if you want to do the update08:43
pittiseb128: already done in bzr08:43
pittiseb128: currently fighting with bug 395103 again08:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 395103 in gdm "Gnome doesn't have my configured keyboard layout after login anymore" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39510308:43
seb128pitti, you wake up way earlier than me apparently ;-)08:43
pittiseb128: usually I start around 808:43
didrocksseb128: when you have some time, can you please just give a look at my gobject-introspection merge? I didn't upload it (http://www.didrocks.fr/temp/gobject-introspection_0.6.3-1ubuntu1.dsc). I mostly wondered by the DM didn't add replaces/conflicts against python-girscanner in gobject-introspection (to remove the python-girscanner package from system, even if now shipped files changed their path)08:44
seb128didrocks, replaces is only required when overwriting content08:45
seb128didrocks, not using conflicts is probably an oversight if the new version is an update of the old naming08:45
didrocksseb128: yes, but conflicts alone won't remove the package and just forbide to upgrade08:46
seb128that would be an apt bug08:46
seb128or not bug but upgrade calculation issue08:47
seb128do you have anything depending on the old naming and the new one?08:47
didrocksit doesn't prevent from upgrading and will remove the conflicting package?08:47
seb128well that's what dist-upgrade is supposed to do08:47
didrocksno, I didn't try to just put conflicts alone (and there is no depend on the old naming), it was more a theorical thought08:48
seb128it puts things on hold when using Breaks08:48
seb128but when using Conflicts it should install the new one08:48
didrocksok, so I can only put Conflicts08:48
seb128yes, as said Replaces is only if you overwritte content08:48
didrocksI knew that, but I previously (and wrongly ) thought that's the couple Replaces/Conflicts was needed to remove the conflicting package. My bad so ;)08:49
didrocksI will change that this evening, test it and upload the package, so. Thanks :)08:50
seb128didrocks, you're welcome08:51
geserpitti: I'm not sure that't the same bug, but the result is the same: I have now again a USA layout till it reset it back to german09:13
seb128pitti, bug #589024, did you ship the new binary in some .install?09:14
ubottuError: Launchpad bug 589024 could not be found09:14
seb128pitti, could explain all the bugs about nautilus not storing positions, etc09:14
seb128bug #40136709:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 401367 in nautilus "View mode always changes to Icons" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40136709:15
davmor2pitti: How are the iso's looking?09:31
rodrigo_dh: --with quilt not supported or failed to load module Debian::Debhelper::Sequence::quilt09:43
rodrigo_getting ^^ on jaunty, any idea what's missing?09:44
rodrigo_on karmic it builds ok09:44
didrocksrodrigo_: debhelper jaunty version is not new enough09:45
* seb128 managed to clean weekend emails backlog before lunch this week09:49
seb128short break and sponsoring coming next09:50
didrocksseb128: congrats! I really don't want to imagine the number of bug mails you can receive within a weekend :)09:52
seb128didrocks, july is quiet09:52
seb128I had some 300 bug emails since saturday when I did read my emails09:53
seb128and maybe 80 other emails09:53
seb128it's sometime over 800 emails after weekend on busy weeks09:53
didrocksthat's still a high volume of bug emails, even 300 in july09:53
chrisccoulsonseb128 - you need a secretary to read your mail ;)09:53
seb128ah ah09:54
maxbrodrigo_, didrocks: It's the quilt version in jaunty that isn't new enough, as far as that particular error is concerned09:54
pittire (sorry, was on VTs, debugging gdm)09:54
* pitti radiates hate towards gdm, it keeps breaking09:55
pitti2.27.4 is an absolute desaster09:55
rodrigo_maxb: ok, trying to build it without the --with-quilt version09:55
rodrigo_pitti: yes, switch user crashes my desktop :(09:55
pittino, the greeter crashes instantly09:56
pittiseb128: you mean it's missing a file? could be, haven't checked09:56
maxbrodrigo_: If it has quilt patches, simply not applying them isn't going to be a good option09:56
seb128pitti, yes, the new backend which does all the properties handling for nautilus09:56
rodrigo_maxb: yeah09:56
pittiseb128: thanks for spotting09:56
seb128pitti, I'm about to do a 15 minutes break and then will do sponsoring and will have a look at gvfs after lunch if nobody is faster09:57
pittiseb128: cool, thanks; I hope I can unbreak gdm today (&#($*#$ keyboard layout)09:57
seb128pitti, you're welcome, that's just upstream comment asking if that new backend was running which made me think about that09:57
pittido other people have US layout in gdm itself now, too?09:57
maxbrodrigo_: So basically the options are to backport quilt as well, or to modify the rules file of the other package to build in the logic that --with quilt would invoke09:58
seb128I'm not using your git snapshot but I can if you want09:58
seb128pitti, ^09:58
pittiseb128: oh, what do you use?09:58
seb128pitti, 2.26.1-0ubuntu7, I just didn't dist-upgrade since friday09:59
pittiah, ok09:59
seb128will do that now09:59
seb128brb testing new gdm09:59
* pitti -> off again for gdm debugging10:00
seb128pitti, yes, keymap is USA by default now10:05
pittiseb128: where exactly?10:15
pittiI just tried it, and for entering passwords I get the system layout (correctly)10:15
seb128pitti, when I click on my user name the combo box for keyboard10:15
pittibut if I go to "other", it defaults to USA10:15
pittior any other user name, yes10:16
pittiseb128: but for entering your password it's correct, right?10:16
seb128let me try, I did pick french before entering the password10:16
seb128but I think the combo is for the user session10:16
seb128not the login screen itself10:16
pittiwell, if I select "other", and type the user name, I get US10:17
seb128that's the bug10:17
seb128it should use the system default10:17
pittiseb128: did it really get that right with 2.26.1?10:17
geserpitti: if it matters, I've auto-login enabled and get a us layout10:17
pittigeser: ah, so you never picked the layout10:18
seb128pitti, I'm not sure now10:18
pittigeser: can you show me your ~/.dmrc?10:18
pittiif I pick the layout once, it's fine10:18
pittiok, then I think I know what to do10:18
pittino Layout= then10:18
seb128pitti, btw your xsession script change made seahorse-agent not be run10:18
pittiok, that explains it then10:18
pittiseb128: I know, already fixed in bzr10:18
* seb128 hugs pitti10:19
seb128you rock ;-)10:19
pittiseb128: but I need to back out 2.27.4, it makes the greeter crash10:19
seb128fixing bugs faster than we notice those ;-)10:19
seb128do you have a stacktrace?10:19
seb128can I see it? ;-)10:19
pittiwas overwritten by my last gdm restart, but I'll get it again10:20
pittilots of gobject stuff and a failed assertion10:20
seb128don't bother too much I can have a look with a local build later10:21
seb128there is not too many commits between your snapshot and the tarball should be easy to find the buggy one10:21
pittiI already tried to revert the two major ones10:23
pittigdm-check-worker-state.patch and gdm-duplicate-usernames.patch10:23
pittithose weren't it10:23
didrockspitti: (just as a notice, nothing really urgent there). I played this week-end in integrating distutils-extra auto to quickly. I have found some annoying things and some of them can be called bugs. I didn't opened them yet as I think you can want to have a look at them first: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DidierRoche/distutils-extra.auto10:24
didrockspitti: I tried to categorize them, but it can be wrong and only from my point of view :)10:25
didrocksfeel free to edit the page to comment when you have some time10:25
=== dpm_ is now known as dpm
pittididrocks: clean> did you try ./setup.py clean -a ?10:26
pittididrocks: good stuff ther10:26
didrockspitti: hum, no. I will try it :)10:28
didrockspitti: thanks10:28
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
pittiseb128: ok, got the keyboard thing nailed now; I'll bisect now to find the 2.27.4 breakage10:33
seb128chrisccoulson, gnome-session uplodaed, gnome-settings-daemon has a small .install issue10:52
chrisccoulsonseb128 - thanks, i didn't notice that :-/10:52
pittiseb128: meh, I reverted all patches now, and it still breaks; will take some more time10:53
seb128pitti, do you want me to test build the bzr version to see if I get the issue too?10:54
pittiseb128: if you have time, but I don't think it's something local10:55
pittiif I re-build the karmic version on current karmic, it still works (i. e. it's not a build-time failure against newer gobject or so)10:55
seb128pitti, let me run a build it shouldn't take too long to test10:55
pittiseb128: ok, it wasn't "all" patches yet, I didn't include the NEWS and translations changes10:56
* pitti dives into diff harder10:56
vuntzseb128: yop10:59
seb128lut vuntz10:59
vuntzseb128: I believe you guys are using the compiz-manager script, but install it as compiz (and rename compiz to compiz.real). Is this right?10:59
* pitti hugs vuntz10:59
seb128vuntz, correct10:59
vuntzseb128: okay... Trying to figure out how to make compiz-manager usable from upstream gnome-wm11:00
vuntzseb128: was planning to do something like "if test "x`which compiz-manager`" != "x"; then use compiz-manager, else use compiz"11:01
* vuntz hugs pitti 11:01
seb128vuntz, looks good to me11:02
vuntzseb128: ugh, the gnome-wm tweaks you do in a patch are weird11:02
vuntzseb128: do you really need /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default?11:02
vuntzseb128: (you'd probably need to add a link from compiz to compiz-manager to not have to patch out the gtk-window-decorator call, btw)11:03
seb128vuntz, the gconf key is there for compatibility reasons I think11:03
mat_tseb128: hi11:04
seb128hey mat_t11:04
mat_tseb128: do you know anything about the planned features for the new gdm?11:04
seb128mat_t, nothing planned over what we have now in karmic11:05
seb128mat_t, what sort of feature are you looking after?11:05
mat_tseb128: in particular, what the prefs menu will cover11:05
seb128mat_t, upstream doesn't want a preference menu or dialog11:05
seb128mat_t, they want autologin to be a checkbox in the user account tool11:06
mat_tseb128: cool, that sounds good!11:06
mat_tseb128: so what will the options be: autologin/no autologin, what about the face browser?11:06
seb128mat_t, there is no face browser yet and will not be one for karmic11:07
seb128mat_t, input from the design team on where a such option should go would be welcome though11:07
mat_tseb128: I meant user picker11:07
mat_tseb128: atm I've got a user icon and user name next to it11:07
seb128right, those are the accounts on the system11:07
mat_tseb128: I click on the user name to access the password11:07
seb128ie the "about me" capplet let you set those11:08
mat_tI see11:08
chrisccoulsonseb128 - fedora have a g-c-c patch for applying themes sytem-wide from gnome-appearance-properties (eg, to change the GDM theme) - do you think we should use this patch?11:09
seb128chrisccoulson, no opinion, it has been discussed upstream for a while now11:10
seb128I would welcome opinion from the design team about that too in fact11:10
mat_tchriscoulson: does that mean ability to apply any gtk theme to the gdm, regardless of the individual user settings?11:10
seb128does it make sense to split options in different dialogs or de we want a gdmsetup tool11:10
chrisccoulsonok, no problem. i noticed it when looking at their polkit-1 patch, as that patch touched code that only they have in their version11:10
mat_tchrisccoulson: sorry mistyped your nick ^11:11
chrisccoulsonmat_t - it would allow you to change the default system theme, much in the same way that you can change the default keyboard layout already11:11
seb128chrisccoulson, it's bug #53653111:11
seb128gnome bug #53653111:11
ubottuError: Launchpad bug 536531 could not be found11:11
ubottuGnome bug 536531 in Appearance "Allow setting the default background" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53653111:11
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, thats the one11:12
mat_tchrisccoulson: that sounds like a good idea11:12
chrisccoulsonmat_t - yeah, i thought so. i'll take a look at that patch11:12
seb128the thing is how do you change the login background then?11:12
seb128you change your, use the set system default11:12
seb128and then select back the one you want for your user?11:12
mat_tchrisccoulson: great!11:12
chrisccoulsonseb128 - changing the system default will change the GDM background and that of new users and users who are stll using the default11:13
mat_tseb128: chrisccoulson: can you explain what the background behaviour would be?11:14
mat_tchrisccoulson: would the user be able to set the gdm background?11:15
chrisccoulsonyeah, the button would change the system default background. This would set the GDM background, and would also set the background adopted by new users created on the system in the future11:15
chrisccoulsonGDM adopts the system defaults currently, just like any other user on the system11:16
mat_tI seer11:16
mat_tsee ^11:16
chrisccoulsoni don't think it's ideal, but it's better than nothing and seems to be the direction that upstream are going in anyway (ie, no separate login screen preferences)11:17
mat_tchrisccoulson: yes, I think it's a good direction11:17
seb128chrisccoulson, well I think we should get input from the design team if they think it's better to have a tools or not11:17
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i don't mind either way11:18
mat_tchrisccoulson: where would that be set from? Gdm menu?11:18
seb128mat_t, well it makes easy to use your background for gdm too11:18
seb128mat_t, but is that something people want to do usually? I don't want to login screen to have a personal photo I'm using for example11:18
mat_tseb128: good point11:19
seb128so the button to set as system default means I've to unconfigure my background to set the gdm one and then configure it back11:19
seb128pitti, greater crash here too, seems to be keyboard thing11:19
mat_tseb128: hmm that sounds a bit confused11:20
pittiif I may throw in my 2 cent, the only logical place for me would be in the gdm screen itself11:20
pittiI would probably never suspect my personal background image config dialog to be able to set the gdm screen11:20
pittiseb128: just captured a log with debug info11:20
pittiseb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/gdm-greeter.log11:21
pittibut I still don't understand it11:21
mat_tseb128: I think the gdm should remain unpersonalised. It's a bit like a public door to the house with many flats - some tenants may not like your choice of grafitti on it :)11:21
pittiwell, we do need to be able to configure autologin11:22
pittiand that's so unrelated to "about me"11:22
pittiI'd much rather like to see it in gdm itsefl11:22
seb128pitti, we were speaking about background, autologin in user account was not controversial11:22
seb128pitti, yeah, same crash here11:22
mat_tseb128: pitti: the avatar in the user picker makes it personal I guess. The problem now is that it's very difficult to discover how to change it11:24
mat_tseb128: pitti: will that option be available while you set up your user account?11:25
seb128you mean the face for your user or the computer icon?11:25
pittimat_t: ubiquity offers to configure autologin, yes11:25
mat_tpitti: inc. avatar?11:25
pittimat_t: not right now11:25
pittimat_t: and I guess the installer is a bad environment to set it, too, since you usually don't have access to your photos there11:26
mat_tpitti: I'm more interested in first run, although installer is the valid case, too11:26
pittiseb128: meh, it didn't change anything in gdm_get_layout_from_name() or related..11:26
pittimat_t: we don't have a "first run" wizard11:26
pitti(by design)11:26
mat_tpitti: I'm referring to the set-up that you perform when you buy, e.g. Dell with Ubunu preinstalled11:27
pittiah, oem-config11:27
pittimat_t: that's pretty much the same as in ubiquity now11:27
mat_tI see11:27
pittibut again, at this time the computer is virgin, and doesn't have your files?11:28
pittiso you could only choose between a few default avatars11:28
pittiwhich is proably reasonable11:28
mat_tSure, but we could offer a nice selection to start with, and info how to change it later11:28
pittijust mentioning that you probably won't have access to personal files11:28
pittiright, avatar should be in "about me"11:28
mat_tatm it's in the "Account information..." in FUSA menu11:29
mat_tIs that "about me"?11:29
pittiit's also in system->prefs11:30
mat_tok, that makes a lot of sense then. So the conclusion would be that gdm background should not be editable11:31
mat_tatm we're working on theming for the boot, os switcher and the gdm11:31
mat_tso that it's a smooth experience11:32
pittifine for me11:32
pittibut that still leaves the question where to put autologin settings11:32
mat_tshould be ready before the Dublin sprint11:32
mat_tI think it should go into the "About me" section, as a tick box11:33
didrocksmat_t: but there can be an "autologin war" between users having sudoer privileges11:33
mat_tdidrocks: good point, how has that been solved up until now?11:34
didrockseach user ticking the box in its own "About me" dialog in his/her session, without noticing that other user already uses autologin11:34
didrocksmat_t: as it is in a common dialog now, people see that another account is already using autologin11:34
mat_tdidrocks: IMO if there's more that 1 sudo user that option could just be switched off11:35
* mat_t looks11:35
mat_tdidrocks: not sure which common dialog you have in mind11:36
didrocksdon't know, it was just a tought. Someone can change a value touching other users experience without noticing that there were another user using it.11:36
didrocksmat_t: gdmsetup11:36
seb128didrocks, you can disable a "another user is already set, do you want to unset it now"11:36
seb128disable -> display11:36
didrocksseb128: good point11:36
pittimat_t: also, which user is loggedin automatiacally is a property of gdm, not a property of that user IMHO11:37
seb128and maybe write a currently <somebody> next to the checkbox11:37
pittiit's a confusing place to configure it11:37
didrocksI agree that configuring autologin (and gdm background) which are "global gdm value" in a user property related dialog is less than ideal11:38
pittiit should be a combobox with all users, plus "disabled"11:38
pittiand look the same for all users11:38
pittithis would at least avoid the "multiple autologin" case11:39
pittibut it still needs policykit, a backend, etc. pp.11:39
pittiwhich both makes the about me patch very intrusive, as well as still being a bad place for it11:39
pittiwhat's so wrong about configuring that right in the gdm screen itself?11:40
didrockspitti: without being logged and using polkit to say "I am acting as xxxx sudoer user to change that"?11:40
pittiyes, PK does allow that11:41
pittiof course it needs to be somewhere else as well11:41
pittisince if you use autologin, you need to be able to reset it11:41
mat_tI think a "sudo-autologin war" is potentially a source of great confusion11:42
didrocksyes, being able to reach in gdm itself seems local, appart from this autologin issue (we don't need dbus/gconf stuff?)11:43
mat_tpitti: didrocks: from the user perspective, in majority of cases there's probably only 1 sudo-user on the machine11:44
mat_tpitti: didrocks: and that user will expect to be able to set autologin on/off for himself11:44
mat_tpitti: didrocks: if there's more than 1 sudo user it probably means that we don't know which one is "more sudo" than the other :)11:45
pittimat_t: both are equally "sudo"ish11:45
pittii. e. both are allowed to change autologin settings11:45
mat_tboth or none11:46
didrocksmat_t: that's for sure. But I really think we don't have to change global gdm value in a user property dialog. Conceptually, there is no sense to do that11:46
mat_tdidrocks: explain11:46
pittididrocks +111:47
didrocksmat_t: the "About me" dialog is there to enable changing user related value (figure, name, password). autologin and gdm background are system-wide value, related to gdm, not binded to an user11:47
asacbryce: tjaalton: any hint when xserver 1.7 will hit the archive?11:47
pittimat_t: which user gets autologged in gdm is not a property of the "martin" user (or anyone else's)11:47
pittiit's a property of gdm11:48
mat_tpitti: but it's a user's choice!11:48
mat_tpitti: didrocks: it is a user-related value from that perspective11:48
pittimat_t: well, everything is an user's choice11:48
pittimat_t: if I install a new package, that's my user choice as well11:49
pittibut it certainly shouldn't be done in "about me"11:49
pitti"about me" is my name, my ICQ number, password, and whatnot11:49
pittibut I wouldn't like it to be cluttered with system preferences11:49
mat_tyes, I agree11:49
mat_twhere else then?11:50
pittias I said, bring back the old gdmsetup, and/or allow configuring autologin directly in gdm11:50
pittisystem -> admin -> login manager wasn't a bad place IMHO11:50
pittido you think it was?11:50
mat_tpitti: I'd rather go for directly in gdm11:50
mat_tI think it was hard to discover and too complex11:51
pittimat_t: *nod*11:51
didrocksI think that pitti's proposal is the most reasonable11:51
mat_tI agree11:51
mat_tJust wanted to test if there's anything better11:51
mat_tOK, so what about the sudo-war11:52
mat_thow can we solve that?11:52
pittiwe don't?11:53
pittiif it's not in about me, but in gdm itself, there's no conflict11:53
didrocksmat_t: if it's a separate dialog only runned as a sudoer, the existing drill, seing another account is already using autologin is enough11:53
pittiLog in this user autoamtically: [martin]11:53
pittiwith the combobox offering all users, plus "nobody"11:53
mat_thmmm, that sounds super-complex11:54
pittihow so?11:54
mat_tI thought about avoiding separate meny whatsoever11:54
pittigdm already knows which users exist11:54
mat_thold on11:55
* mat_t checks his wireframes11:55
didrocks(bbl, away for half an hour)11:56
mat_tok, so when you select your user in gdm and have a password field ready, there would be a checkbox below with "Log in automatically"11:57
pittibut that wouldn't work11:58
pittiyou could never have a non-sudoer autologin then11:58
pittiand it would give the "autologin war" confusion11:58
pittiit's the very same problem as with "about me"11:59
pittithe autologin user simply isn't attached to any particular user, it's attached to gdm11:59
mat_ttechnically yes11:59
mat_tbut it is a preference of a particular user12:00
mat_t"I want to autologin"12:00
mat_tAm I missing something?12:00
pittino, it's not12:02
pittiit's a system-level setting, to be done by an admin12:02
pittia non-admin can't ever configure autologin12:02
pittiwell, if you find a sensible workflow with just a checkbox, sure, but I don't see how this would work12:03
pittiwe could bring up a Polkit dialog if a non-admin tries to autologin12:03
pittiand don't show the checkbox if you already set autologin for another user12:03
pittibut that makes it utterly nondiscoverable how to change it then12:04
mat_tok, so my concept was: when you select your user, gdm knows if it's an admin, right?12:04
mat_tmat_t > lunch12:05
pittimat_t: enjoy! (good idea!)12:05
* mat_t will do some more thinking and come back to the problem :)12:05
pittiseb128_: ok, I give up; I'll upload the current git snapshot with two fixes for keyboard layout and Xsession.d, and file an upstream bug for now12:06
seb128_pitti, ok thanks12:08
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
rodrigo_seb128_: where can I get a LICENSE file for a LGPL lib? (to include in a package to be subvmitted to REVU)12:13
Laneyis there a bug for alt-fX shortcuts not working?12:15
seb128_rodrigo_, any COPYING in a GPL tarball?12:20
seb128_rodrigo_, or /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL12:21
rodrigo_ah, I've been asked to submit with COPYING and LICENSE -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/couchdb-glib12:21
seb128_I read too quickly, replace GPL by LGPL there12:21
seb128_rodrigo_, "or"12:22
* rodrigo_ misread it :)12:22
seb128_rodrigo_, ie you need to license text in the tarball12:22
seb128_rodrigo_, you can name it COPYING, LGPL, LICENSE, whatever you want12:22
chrisccoulsonpitti - did you figure out your GDM crash?12:29
chrisccoulsonpitti - if you haven't figured it out already, it looks like a xklavier bug. The way that the "fearures" flag type is registered in the new version has changed12:34
chrisccoulsonit's registered with g_enum_register_static in the new version and i think that should be g_flags_register_static12:35
seb128_it crashes due to a gdm_layout_activate (NULL);12:35
seb128_well that didn't change12:35
seb128_that's just what triggers the crash12:35
seb128_chrisccoulson, where is the register thing?12:36
chrisccoulson"GLib-GObject-CRITICAL: g_param_spec_flags: assertion `G_TYPE_IS_FLAGS (flags_type)' failed " is because of the problem i just mentioned12:36
chrisccoulsonseb128 - it's in the xklavier source "libxklavier/xkl-enum-types.c"12:36
chrisccoulsonthe type is registered incorrectly in the new version12:37
seb128_chrisccoulson, it's weird that the gdm snapshot built using the same libxklavier doesn't break though12:37
chrisccoulsonyeah, that is a bit wiered12:37
chrisccoulsonright, i've got to go for lunch12:37
seb128_chrisccoulson, thanks for the pointer looking at that now12:38
seb128_chrisccoulson, indeed http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/xklavier/libxklavier/libxklavier/xkl_engine.h?r1=1.8&r2=1.9 fixes it12:45
seb128_pitti, ^12:45
seb128_chrisccoulson, want to backport the patch after lunch since you tracked the issue? I will do it otherwise12:45
seb128_pitti, I can verify that the change fixes gdm greeter crashing12:46
seb128_https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21578 is the corresponding bug12:47
ubottuFreedesktop bug 21578 in General "Use glib-mkenums to generate enum descriptions" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]12:47
mat_tpitti: hey12:51
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i don't mind doing that, but it would have to wait until i finished work. i will do it then if you havent already done it13:00
seb128chrisccoulson, when do you finish work? ;-)13:01
chrisccoulson1630 usually;)13:01
seb128ok, I think I will backport the change and credit you in the changelog then13:01
seb128I'm sure you will find other tasks for after work ;-)13:01
seb128chrisccoulson, thank you for the good catch, how did you notice the issue was coming from there btw?13:02
chrisccoulsoni was just looking at the trace that pitti got earlier (http://people.canonical.com/~pitti//tmp/gdm-greeter.log)13:03
chrisccoulsonand saw it was crashing in g_param_spec_flags somewhere13:03
seb128I'm still a bit puzzle about why the previous version doesn't crash when built on the same libxklavier13:03
chrisccoulsonyeah, i don't understand that either13:06
chrisccoulsondoes the previous version call xkl_engine_get_instance anywhere?13:07
seb128chrisccoulson, yes, they do the same libxklavier use apparently13:10
seb128chrisccoulson, don't bother, actually fixing the bug will do ;-)13:11
Ampelbeinseb128: hey... I know it's not a high priority, but did you have a chance to look at gnome-nettool? I linked my branch to bug 400016 but as I said I did not get the launchpad integration to work, no menu items are loaded. I did a strace and the launchpad-integration library gets loaded, so it's not a problem with the build-process, I think.13:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 400016 in gnome-nettool "Please sponsor version 2.27.4 in karmic" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40001613:19
seb128Ampelbein, no, but I will do that today13:19
Ampelbeinok, thanks13:20
pittichrisccoulson: no, I didn't (was off for lunch)13:27
pittichrisccoulson: my next plan was to git pull, build a tarball from that, and build it, to ensure it's not something in upstream's orig.tar.gz13:28
pittioh, you guys figured it out? thanks!13:28
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, i think so:)13:29
* pitti hugs chrisccoulson and seb12813:29
* seb128 hugs pitti13:29
pittisee, it does make sense to go to dinner :-)13:29
pittiI'll close my filed upstream bug then13:29
* chrisccoulson hugs seb128 and pitti13:29
seb128pitti, already done for the upstream bug13:29
seb128pitti, you can go for ice cream or something now and maybe your next bug will be fixed when you come back ;-)13:29
pittiseb128: ah, nice13:30
pittiactually, I planned to work on my specs this morning, and then wasted 4.5 hours on gdm :/13:30
pittiwell, "spent", half of it was for the other bugs13:30
chrisccoulsonpitti loves GDM really ;)13:31
pittido we track the libxklavier bug somewhere? or should we just upload it?13:31
seb128pitti, I will upload in a bit13:31
seb128pitti, I do the libxklavier fix and gdm update and you fix the gvfs missing file while I'm on that? ;-)13:31
pittiseb128: deal!13:32
seb128good ;-)13:32
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
pittiseb128: so you just need to revert r55 then13:34
seb128pitti, right, I will do that and add a Conflicts on libxklavier versioned13:35
didrocksif callable(item):13:35
seb128pitti, the conflict can be dropped in next upload, it's to avoid race upgrades13:35
pittiyep, makes sense13:35
mat_tpitti: the language selector in the gdm doesn't seem essential... what's the current rationale for including it?13:44
pittiwell, selecting your language?13:44
pittibut you can do that in the desktop, too13:44
pittiI agree that it's sort of dispensable13:44
seb128mat_t, different users might use different languages13:44
pittisession could be hidden in a menu13:45
pittiwell, actually all of keyboard/language/session could be hidden in a menu13:45
mat_tseb128: would they not have defined them in their desktop session?13:45
pittithese aren't common options, but they have to be available13:45
mat_tpitti: exactly my thoughts13:45
seb128mat_t, where? and that means they would have to log at least once in english to find their way to the option13:45
pittiI liked the menu in the old gdm actually, but I don't have a strong opinion about it13:46
mat_tseb128: would they not have their account created with a particular language pre-set?13:46
seb128pitti, it could, but would that be much better? there is plenty of space on the bottom bar13:46
pitticould get a little tight on 800 pixels, but I guess we don't care much about that13:47
pittiit's fine here on 102413:47
seb128mat_t, well, they could if somebody was writting the code for that13:47
seb128mat_t, an university machine for example would have accounts for all student but the sysadmin would probably not spend days settings locales for each accounts, etc13:47
mat_tit's a rare, but valid use case13:49
seb128what is the issue with that selector?13:50
mat_tI think it's rare enough for the language option to be hidden in the Options menu13:50
seb128it doesn't look good?13:50
seb128there is no options menu13:50
mat_tseb128: it's quite ugly and it's going to be used extremely rarely13:50
pittilikewise for the session selector, though13:51
mat_tThere could be - if we go for pittis concept of autologin prefs in gdm13:51
pittiusually you seelect your session exactly once, or perhaps temporarily use the xterm one13:51
seb128we should settle on what we envision for that and discuss it with upstream then13:51
mat_tseb128: I agree13:51
mat_tseb128: I'm drawing up some wireframes atm13:52
mat_tseb128: do we have a wiki page for login experience?13:52
seb128do you try to get ride of the whole bar or just from the combos boxes?13:52
seb128mat_t, not that I know13:52
mat_tseb128: the bar could go, we would only have buttons: {[Accessibility (icon only)] [Login options]                                             [Power (icon only)]}13:54
mat_tseb128: that would keep it nice and clean13:55
pittiseb128: hm, installing the metadata daemon and .service doesn't make a differnce, and the daemon doesn't even get started, hmm13:55
seb128mat_t, well the bar is a countain for the notification area icons too13:55
seb128pitti, did you restart your session and gvfs then nautilus?13:55
pittiseb128: I checked with list-missing now13:55
pittiseb128: yes13:55
seb128can you run it by hand?13:55
mat_tseb128: what icons exactly?13:55
pittiwell, I restarted gvfs and nautilus13:55
seb128does it crash13:55
* pitti tries restarting session13:55
seb128pitti, it could be autospawned when required13:55
seb128pitti, try moving icons on the desktop or something13:56
pitti$ /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-metadata13:56
pittiprocess 18608: arguments to dbus_bus_request_name() were incorrect, assertion "(error) == NULL || !dbus_error_is_set ((error))" failed in file dbus-bus.c line 1114.13:56
pittiseb128: good intuition!13:56
* pitti pokes, thanks13:56
seb128mat_t, the battery one for example13:57
SteveAI know suspend / hibernate is fragile generally... it was working find on this laptop running jauty.  Now, with karmic, suspend and hibernate don't work.  The screen goes dark for a while when I ask it to suspend then a minute or so later I get the "enter password to close the screensaver" screen.13:57
SteveAshould I file a bug?  against what package?13:57
mat_tseb128: I don't think there's a benefit from having a battery there13:57
seb128mat_t, well, even those icons you mention, you can't get icons in the middle of nowhere13:58
crevettedoes anyone experience this problem http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588895 ?13:59
mat_tseb128: yeah, that's more of a styling issue13:59
seb128SteveA, not sure, that doesn't seem really desktopish, try #ubuntu-devel maybe13:59
ubottuGnome bug 588895 in GIO "nautilus crashes every time I access a gvfs location" [Major,Unconfirmed]13:59
seb128crevette, libnautilus-ubuntuone.so13:59
seb128crevette, I closed the bug13:59
mat_tseb128: right now it's more important to decide what options we'll include14:00
seb128crevette, wait for an update ubuntuone-client-gnome14:00
seb128or uninstall it14:00
seb128mat_t, right14:00
crevetteah okay thanks14:00
mat_tseb128: I found this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/GDMConfigureTool14:03
mat_tseb128: looks like Robert Ancell is working on it14:03
seb128mat_t, right, that's the one for the configuration tool14:03
seb128mat_t, that's not for the login screen look though, just for how we will configure options and which ones rather14:04
pittiseb128: hah, missing dbus_error_init, easy14:04
mat_tseb128: right14:04
mat_tseb128: so there is no blueprint or spec for it yet14:04
seb128pitti, ok14:04
mptmvo_, ok for a call now?14:05
crevetteseb128, whould it be possible to define the GTK also in the GDM configure tool?, should I modify the spec, or see that with robert ?14:07
mat_tseb128: pitti: is it a good idea to create a blueprint for the login experience on LP? And then link a spec to it?14:07
pittisure, a wiki spec is always nice to get an agreement on, point upstraem to, etc.14:07
seb128mat_t, having a wiki page would be nice, not sure if that require a blueprint too14:07
mvo_mpt: yes14:08
seb128crevette, you can add a suggestion at the bottom of the spec14:08
mat_tseb128: OK, should I create one under the Desktop team or DX team?14:08
seb128mat_t, as you prefer, I would say desktop team since I doubt dxteam will work on that soon but I've no strong opinion14:09
mat_tseb128: pitti: it'll be here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/LoginExperience14:13
seb128mat_t, thanks14:13
geserpitti: where does the new gdm fetch the keyboard layout from? I got now a german layout ("Germany") but with dead keys (instead of the configured nodead keys variant)14:20
pittigeser: from hal14:20
pittigeser: which again gets it from /etc/default/console-setup14:20
geserpitti: the XKB* values?14:21
geserI've there XKBVARIANT="nodeadkeys" but I still got dead keys at login14:22
mptmvo_, how can I get the app-install-data counts myself? e.g. find out how many items there are in total, or how many are in the "Games" category14:24
pittigeser: right, the hal patch just gets layout, not variant :/14:24
geserI've also XKBOPTIONS="compose:menu" set but did check yet if it's used or not14:25
mvo_mpt: the total is easy, just count the desktop files in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/ - for the categories its a bit more tricky14:25
mclasengdm doesn't do anything for complicated configurations with variants and options14:25
geserI'd be happy if my gnome desktop used the variants and options I configured14:27
geserI don't care if they are used during gdm login (I've autologin enabled anyway)14:27
pittiit always sets GDM_KEYBOARD_LAYOUT again, so gdm would have to know about the variants14:27
pittior stop setting GDM_KEYBOARD_LAYOUT if the user didn't change it (probably safer)14:28
mptmvo_, "cat /usr/share/app-install/desktop/* | grep Categories | grep Game | wc -l" returns 436. That seem right?14:29
mvo_mpt: yes14:29
mvo_mpt: in theory it may be more compicated (the applications.menu file in the desktop directory can have includes/excludes for certain categories). but in practise I think this is good enough14:30
pittigeser: followed up on upstream bug report14:30
seb128tedg, hey14:38
seb128tedg, how is the fusa update going?14:38
tedgseb128: Generally okay, adding features.  I hope to have it mostly working this week.14:38
tedgseb128: I finally upgraded to Karmic even ;)14:39
=== pace_t_zulu_ is now known as pace_t_zulu
pittididrocks: hmm14:56
pittiSearching packages which provide required Python modules:14:56
pittilaunchpadlib.launchpad ... python-launchpadlib14:56
pittididrocks: this works for me14:57
didrockspitti: hum? strange. I had to add it manually saturday. I will check again tonight.14:58
SteveAdarn... all the icons on my gnome desktop have been rearranged into neat columns15:02
SteveAon upgrading15:02
seb128SteveA, welcome to unstable distribution versions, should be fixed when you install the gvfs update pitti just uploaded15:03
SteveAseb128: cool :-)15:04
hyperaircan someone run /usr/lib/notify-osd/notify-osd in a terminal and see if it complains about not being able to detect a panel?15:05
seb128hyperair, it complains about another instance running15:05
hyperairseb128: kill it first.15:05
hyperairkillall notify-osd15:05
hyperairthen run it in a terminal15:05
hyperairand run notify-send bla15:05
seb128well notify-osd works fine there15:05
SteveAmy bluetooth keyboard now works on booting, and on turning it on and off, without my needing to reassociate it. FTW.15:05
seb128didn't you say that was multiscreen specific the other day?15:06
* SteveA wonders which bug that is...15:06
hyperairseb128: yes it's multiscreen specific, but on both single and multi screens, it doesn't detect thep anel.15:06
hyperair** (notify-osd:6860): DEBUG: no panel detetected; using workarea fallback15:06
hyperairsomething like this15:07
seb128works there15:07
hyperairhmm how strange.15:07
hyperairhmmm how strange.15:07
hyperairpoking notify-osd using gdb led me to nail it down to this:15:07
hyperair2107     if (gdk_window_get_type_hint (win)15:07
hyperair2108         != GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_DOCK)15:07
hyperairfor some reason, gdk_window_get_type_hint (win) returns GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_NORMAL15:08
hyperairand win is definitely the panel.15:08
crevetteSteveA, there is a lot of bugs complaining about not being able to connect its keyboard after reboot, pick the one you wish :)15:09
hyperairseb128: what's your gnome-panel version?15:10
seb128hyperair, in fact it does display the warning when sending a bubble, just not when running notify-osd15:10
seb128hyperair, but bubbles are correctly displayed15:10
hyperairah so it does display the warning then?15:11
seb128just when displaying a bubble, not when stating15:11
hyperairyes yes15:11
hyperairthat's why i wanted you to send a bubble15:11
hyperairusing notify-send15:11
seb128well I did read the can somebody rung and see if it complains15:11
seb128didn't read the details since I know how to stop and start it ;-)15:12
seb128well your first question didn't mention "when getting a bubble displayed"15:12
hyperairoh. right X_x15:12
seb128"see if it complains about not being able to detect a panel?"15:12
seb128it doesn't ;-)15:12
SteveAcrevette: there was one I either filed, or commented on a lot.  I'll find it...15:12
hyperairright right15:12
seb128but right it does once I get a notification15:12
hyperairthe next line after that says: ** (notify-osd:6860): DEBUG: top corner at: 2295, 2315:12
hyperairmy panel is on the first monitor15:13
hyperairand my setup is 1280x1024 + 1280x80015:13
seb128so it displays on the second monotir?15:13
hyperairfor some reason, the bubble isn't displaying, not even in the second monitor15:13
hyperairit should, but doesn't.15:13
hyperairbut the main thing is that it should be displaying on the first, where the panel is.15:13
seb128talk to MacSlow he's the notify-osd upstream hacker15:13
hyperairi kind of think it's more a gnome-panel issue though15:14
seb128yeah, seems the gnome-panel detection code is buggy15:14
seb128well, or notify-osd making wrong assumptions15:14
hyperairno what i meant to say is that.. is gnome-panel setting the type hint correctly?15:14
seb128vuntz, ^15:14
hyperairbbl (have to fetch my sister)15:14
seb128hyperair, it's TYPE_DOCK according to xprop log15:15
pittididrocks: I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DidierRoche/distutils-extra.auto ; all medium issues and 2/3 important issues fixed15:18
pitti(or explained)15:18
pittidebuild -i commented as well15:19
didrockspitti: yes. I've just read them. I know about the .pyc not put in the bin .deb I just believed they were compiled in /usr/share/pyshared/quickly/. I will check for them in /usr/lib/python*/dist-packages/15:20
didrockspitti: thanks for your reactivity :)15:20
pittididrocks: you're welcome, I know that it blocks you guys15:20
pittididrocks: poking at updating debian/control now15:20
didrockspitti: I will try debuild -i again, but I still had the issue yesterday.15:21
* didrocks hugs pitti15:21
pittioh, hang on15:21
pittididrocks: sorry, you need -I.bzr15:21
didrocksyes, updating debian/control is the major blocker for quickly15:21
pittididrocks: -i is just for the diff.gz15:21
pittibut you are building native packages, I assume15:21
didrocksoh, ok. it handled differently for diff.gz and orig.tar.gz15:21
didrocksthat explains this :)15:22
pittididrocks: -I without arguemtns should ideally include .bzr nowadays15:22
pittididrocks: wiki page updated15:22
didrockspitti: I agree. But I can still use that as a workaround until it's fixed15:22
didrockspitti: thanks a lot :)15:23
pittimeh, I want devhelp back15:28
pittiI got addicted to it15:29
pittiseb128: btw, is the breakage of that because we now use webkit, or because we don't? (and it's a xul breakage)?15:29
didrocksthis is good drug :)15:29
seb128pitti, dunno I've not looking to that yet, I didn't notice it was broken in fact15:30
pittiok, nevermind15:30
seb128looking -> looked15:31
* pitti is just whining15:31
pittiDepends: libwebkit-1.0-215:31
pittiseems so15:31
* pitti retries build, hopes that it won't ftbfs again and magically fix everything15:33
vuntzseb128: what is wrong with the panel? :-)15:34
seb128 for some reason, gdk_window_get_type_hint (win) returns GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_NORMAL15:34
seb128 and win is definitely the panel.15:34
seb128vuntz, hyperair wrote that before15:34
seb128but here xprop shows it's a dock so dunno15:34
vuntzseb128: pretty sure this is working fine, but I could be wrong, of course15:35
hyperairis there some utility which can detect what type the said window is?15:39
hyperairlike some xwininfo invocation?15:39
seb128hyperair, xprop15:40
hyperairah xprop15:40
hyperairhow strange. =\15:41
seb128hyperair, no, it's normal15:41
seb128what else would you expect?15:41
mclasenjcastro: hey, I just stole http://patches.ubuntu.com/libg/libgweather/extracted/01_gettext_not_xml.patch - one for your list of  'forgot to upstream' patches...15:41
hyperairseb128: a value that's off.15:42
hyperairi can be hopeful, right? =p15:42
seb128mclasen, no, vuntz said he was not interested to get this one15:42
mclasenwell, I am15:42
seb128mclasen, he said that's no win over the current split and that he would not take the patch upstream for GNOME15:42
seb128mclasen, well you can't say it has not been upstream, maintainer refused the change rather15:42
pittididrocks: ... and fixed :)15:42
didrockspitti: thank you so much :) I will give a try to all of those fixes tonight (do you want to bump the revision number?)15:44
hyperairseb128: is there any reason why gdk_window_get_type_hint returns GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_NORMAL rather than GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_DOCK for that window?15:44
mclasenseb128: vuntz said to me "patch was never sent upstream iirc"15:44
pittididrocks: uploaded 2.7 to sid/karmic, and 2.7~jaunty to PPA15:45
pittididrocks: and wiki page updated; so could you try 2.7, and delete the stuff that's fixed now after confirming?15:45
didrockspitti: perfect... and yes, I will do that :)15:46
seb128mclasen, no, I asked vuntz on IRC if he would be interested by the change and he said that he was not, that he preferred to split the .xml by locale and that it was not worth sending the patch to bugzilla since he didn't intend to do a such change15:46
seb128vuntz, ^15:46
seb128bratsche, hey, gtk 2.17. =5 directfb still doesn't build, lack _gdk_window_impl_new, could you have a look?15:51
jcastroseb128, we should make sure vuntz answers on mailing lists instead of on irc so we can document his forgetfullness.15:52
jcastrovuntz, just kidding.15:52
seb128jcastro, ;-)15:52
mat_tpitti: do you know what happens when there's many user accounts on one machine? How long can the list get?15:52
mat_tpitti: does it scroll?15:53
vuntzmclasen: I think the point was "opening a small xml file + a mo file" vs "opening a small & compressed xml file" (trying to remember when this was discussed)15:55
bratscheseb128: Yeah, I missed that in my last commit for lack of time and then didn't get a chance to do it this weekend.  I'll take a look at it.15:55
seb128bratsche, thanks15:55
mclasenvuntz: the mo file is a win as soon as you have two users of the data15:55
mclaseneven if you discount the space savings due to reduce xml clutter15:56
vuntzmclasen: how is it a win?15:56
mclasenbecause it gets mmapped and shared15:56
mclasenrather than parsed and stored in private memory for each users15:56
vuntzmclasen: but both users still have to open the xml file. So it's still more15:56
vuntzmclasen: (C xml file)15:57
vuntzmclasen: you have parse + gettext vs parse15:57
mclasenthe untranslated xml ought to be noticeably smaller than the translated one; I wonder why it isn't16:01
vuntzmclasen: why would it be smaller?16:04
mclasenbecause the translations take up space16:04
vuntzmclasen: but they replace the C strings16:05
=== WelshDragon is now known as Fluffles
vuntzmclasen: sure about that?16:11
mclasenwell, it replaces the <name> element, but you gain an id attribute with the C string, no ?16:11
mclasenplus you have a bazillion xml:lang="foo"16:12
vuntzmclasen: no16:12
vuntzmclasen: I for sure can't find "Venice" in the fr xml file. It's Venise there16:12
mclasenyeah, I was wrong about the id16:13
mclasenvuntz: I guess it comes down to: you are happy with the split xml solution because you have langpacks...I don't16:14
mat_tpitti: ping16:18
hyperaireureka! it works! (using wnck to get the window type instead of gdk)16:18
seb128hyperair, I doubt they will make notify-osd depends on wnck though16:20
hyperairseb128: it already does.16:20
hyperairseb128: all i did was add one include (libwnck/window.h)16:20
hyperairthere were other libwnck includes already16:20
hyperairin the same file16:20
seb128oh ok16:20
seb128and do you know why the gdk call doesn't work?16:21
hyperairi have no idea.16:21
seb128could be a gtk bug then16:21
hyperairi'm thinking either a bug in gdk, or that gdk_window_get_whatever_it_was_i_was_using doesn't fully document what it's not supposed to do.16:22
hyperairare all gdk_window_whatever functions supposed to work with windows that don't belong to the app?16:22
pittimat_t: it just shows the most popular users (in terms of how often they logged in)16:23
seb128hyperair, works when ldpreloading gdk 2.1616:24
pittimat_t: I didn't try how long the list can get, I hope that it stops at 5 or so16:24
seb128hyperair, not sure, especially in the client side gdk world16:24
hyperairseb128: wait, you mean it detects your screen when you ldpreload gdk 2.16?16:24
hyperairi mean panel16:24
pittimat_t: BTW, I'm happy if you want that ripped out, and replaced by two input lines (user/pwd)16:24
seb128hyperair, yes16:25
hyperairi see.16:25
seb128hyperair, I got the jaunty deb, dpkg-deb -x it and LD_PRELOAD16:25
hyperairhow strange, eh.16:25
hyperairjaunty deb eh.16:25
seb128well, 2.1616:25
hyperairthat means it's a regression in gtk16:25
seb128karmic is 2.1716:25
hyperairyes yes16:25
seb128or a wrong assumption of what you can do from notify-osd which used to work by luck16:25
mat_tpitti: I've just added 10 users and the list just scrolls endlessly16:30
mat_tpitti: I think we should keep the user picker, but replace it with user/pwd if there's more than 6 users16:30
mat_tpitti: also, user/pwd should be default if there's a network16:31
seb128mat_t, why not displaying the n most frequent users and the other entry?16:32
mat_tseb128: I don't like the list being dynamic depending on whether someone logged in more often16:33
mat_tseb128: imagine that situation in the family, when mum suddenly can't log in16:34
mat_tand she's baffled16:34
seb128mat_t, it means that if you have 15 accounts and only 3 people using the machine you prefer to not list those just because the system has unused accounts?16:34
mat_tyes, I think that's better than unpredictable behaviour16:34
seb128well, sorting by commonly used is not unpredictable16:35
mat_t"Where's my user gone?!" "I don't know mum..."16:35
mat_tit is16:35
seb128well, make an account for somebody and next login your user list has vanished for no obvious reason16:35
seb128want to bet we will get bugs about that too? ;-)16:36
mat_tit's a tricky one16:37
mat_tbut in 99% of the cases when there is +6 users on one computer it is not a normal "family" setup16:38
mat_tseb128: but you are right, it is a potentially disruptive situation16:39
hyperairseb128: poking libgtk with gdb revealed that the said function earlier stops at this point:16:50
hyperair2028   if (GDK_WINDOW_DESTROYED (window) ||16:50
hyperair2029       !WINDOW_IS_TOPLEVEL (window))16:50
hyperair2030     return GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_NORMAL;16:50
hyperairseb128: i know why the notifications don't appear for me now!17:07
hyperairseb128: the coordinates specified earlier aren't displayed due to my secondary monitor being shorter, and their bases aligned17:07
mat_tpitti: seb128: Ok, I've changed my mind. I've just imagined a class with 20 kids somewhere in Africa, where every child has his own avatar... having a usr/pwd just because it's more than 6 of them seems inhumane17:36
mat_tSo I think the list can adapt to display most often logged users, but should always display all users17:38
seb128mat_t, ok, having a scrollbar then?17:41
tedgseb128: Are we supporting people using the old GDM?17:41
tedg(on Karmic)17:41
seb128tedg, no, there is no old gdm, they are not different packages17:41
seb128t's a new version of the same gdm software17:41
tedgseb128: Okay.  Cool.17:42
* seb128 does a break bbl17:43
mat_tseb128: could we populate random avatars for newly created users from the usr/share/pixmaps/faces ?17:45
mptA computer screen could easily show 20 icons, it's just the 1-D scrolling layout that doesn't17:45
mat_tmpt: true17:45
pittimat_t: ok; personally I'd value an easier method to access "other", without having to use the mouse17:47
mat_tpitti: you can filter with keyboard, can't you?17:48
pittihm, I don't know17:48
mat_tyou can :)17:48
* mat_t just tried that17:49
mat_tpitti: could we populate random avatars for newly created users from the usr/share/pixmaps/faces ?17:51
pittimat_t: I guess we can17:52
mat_tcool, that would bring this thing to life17:52
pittihm, apparently I lost gnoem-keyring ssh agent with one of the recent updates17:59
pittidobey: could you please add Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntu/karmic/ubuntuone-storage-protocol/karmic to debian/control? (likewise for ubuntuone-client)? It needs to go into the first record (for the source package)18:02
pittidobey: this will point out that the package is managed in bzr, and enable tools like debcheckout to work18:03
Ampelbeinpitti: regarding gnome-keyring, does echo $SSH_AUTH_SOCK give an empty reply?18:03
Ampelbeinpitti: and it points to /tmp/keyring-bla/socket.ssh18:04
pittisrwxr-xr-x 1 martin martin 0 2009-07-20 15:33 /tmp/keyring-tYQTmS/socket.ssh18:04
pittiit exists, but the variable doesn't exist18:04
pittihah, indeed SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/keyring-tYQTmS/socket.ssh ssh .. works18:05
Ampelbeinpitti: I don't know where that get's sourced. for the seahorse-agent (gpg stuff) it's in /etc/X11/Xsession.d18:07
pittiright, and that works again with latest gdm18:07
mac__vpitti: silly ques , when can we expect FUSA back ?18:09
pittitedg said he's working on it, in a week or so18:09
mptmat_t, ^^18:09
mac__vmpt: why do you insist in keeping the name rather than the icon for FUSA? just trying to get your perspective18:10
mptmac__v, do you mean for the menu title?18:12
mptor for each item?18:13
mptmac__v, either way, I'm not "insisting" on anything, I haven't had time to do any design work on Fusa18:13
mac__vbug 40038318:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 400383 in hundredpapercuts "Panel separator between clock and FUSA is not meaningful" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40038318:13
mptmac__v, that's about the gap before the title, it's not about whether the title should include an icon.18:15
mac__vmpt: oh ... ok, seperator surely looks odd , but removing the separator makes the date flow into the name, seemed awkward , either a smaller separator or if the separator was to be removed we could use just the icon instead18:16
mac__vbtw the david's screenshot is *not* FUSA18:17
mptmac__v, then maybe the gap's too narrow.18:17
mat_tmac__v, try spreading the two menus on your panel a bit and remove the separator - works just fine18:18
djsiegelrickspencer3_: http://davidsiegel.org/100papercuts-round-3-progress-report/ (fyi)18:18
mac__vmpt: yeah, you are right, just have a look in the end, when FUSA is done. it doesnt seem nice without the separator and no space atm18:19
mac__vmat_t: you are right about adding the space18:19
mac__vmpt: djsiegel: bug 400047 , another simple one for papercuts18:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 400047 in hundredpapercuts "Partitioner should be more clear/specific" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40004718:21
* djsiegel looks18:21
djsiegelmac__v: ah, not really a paper cut18:21
mac__vdjsiegel: when the install icon in Live CD is discussed , why not this?18:21
mac__vlabel  that is18:22
djsiegelit's more trivial18:22
djsiegelthe install icon is so much simpler to improve18:23
djsiegelalso, it appears in your normal boot environment18:23
mac__vdjsiegel: this is also just rewording18:23
djsiegelwhen you upgrade18:23
djsiegelmac__v: is there a mockup?18:23
djsiegelask the OP to do one18:23
djsiegel"partitioner is unclear" make the bug seem non-trivial :)18:24
mac__vdjsiegel: not sure what mockup , could you just add the comment18:25
mac__vthe first option is just poorly worded18:25
mat_tbratsche: hi18:27
bratscheHi mat_t18:27
mat_tbratsche: any news from the world of morphing? Just thought the new gdm would find a perfect use for it...18:28
bratschemat_t: I actually am finally starting on this.  But I'm limiting the scope of it to the message dialogs that are in the notify wiki page that mpt made, and once this is done I figured we could make it more generic.18:29
bratscheI'm starting with just what's on this page.18:30
mat_tbut the generic stuff is post-Karmic, right?18:30
bratschemat_t: Probably, but maybe doable sooner.18:30
mac__vdjsiegel: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_W1ueYt1O3xs/SdX6SkcEabI/AAAAAAAAQNc/RD4b7Ivsbqo/s400/dual+boot+windows+7+and+ubuntu-4+764x670.jpg the shot of the installer18:30
mat_tbratsche: what do you think about the user list in the new gdm?18:31
bratschemat_t: Do you know kind of what you want to do with it in gdm?18:31
bratschemat_t: Do you have a link for it?18:32
mat_tbratsche: yeah, morph from user list to usr/pwd18:32
mat_tbratsche: it's just a simple scrollable list18:32
bratschemat_t: So that's kind of like the stuff in the videos you and Mark were showing in UDS right?18:33
mat_tmuch like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=morphing-window.png18:33
bratscheOh right.18:33
djsiegelbratsche: mpt and I discussed a pretty sweet paper cut you might be interested in: don't show accelerator underlines unless Alt is pressed18:33
mat_tbratsche: not sure which videos you're referring to18:33
bratschemat_t: I'm not sure about this one yet.. the treeview stuff might be tricky, and I need to think about how it should work.18:34
bratschedjsiegel: Hmm.. that sounds kind of nice.18:35
mat_tbratsche: treeview?18:35
bratschemat_t: Yeah, in this screenshot you linked.. it's Firefox, but the gtk equivalent is GtkTreeView.18:36
dobeypitti: sure. will do18:36
pittidobey: thanks18:37
pittidobey: both uploaded, btw18:37
bratschemat_t: I think I should get the new message dialog stuff done fairly quickly, and I'll try to figure out how to do this one next.18:37
dobeypitti: great, thanks18:37
seb128does the new ubuntuone-client fixes the zillion nautilus crashes?18:38
seb128(if that's the case you could have mentioned it in the changelog)18:39
bratschedjsiegel: I think that would be a fun one to hack on.  But I think we'll need you guys to come up with a good explanation of why it's a good idea in order to convince gtk+ maintainers.18:39
seb128dobey, pitti: ^18:39
djsiegelbratsche: ok18:39
pittiseb128: I played around with it a little, no immediate crashes18:39
dobeyseb128: yes18:39
bratschedjsiegel: But I think I could hack on that and talk to mclasen about getting it in sometime.18:40
djsiegelbratsche: awesome18:40
djsiegelbratsche: any news with the dim-on-cut work?18:40
djsiegel(sorry to inundate you)18:40
bratschedjsiegel: I have most of the patch updated against Nautilus master sitting on my laptop.. I need to finish that up and test it.18:41
mac__vmpt: now i'm not sure if the wording really needs a change ! anyway screenshot> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29292485/Ubiquity.png18:43
bratschedjsiegel: I'll try to get it in a better state tonight.  If you guys are serious about the gtk+ thing, I think that should be higher priority because that's something we probably can't ship a patch against.  So we would need to get it into gtk master sooner rather than later, otherwise put it off until Karmic+118:43
pittiTaekwondo time, cu tomorrow!18:43
djsiegelbratsche: ok, I will write an argument today, file a launchpad bug, and ping you18:43
bratschedjsiegel: The dim-cut-files thing could probably be shipped as a patch if we can't get it into Nautilus on time.18:43
bratschedjsiegel: Cool, sounds good.18:44
djsiegelbut now I have to file round-4 papercuts upstream and get the wheel turning...18:44
mat_tseb128: pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/LoginExperience#Standard%20login%20screen%20with%20user%20picker18:54
seb128mat_t, looks good, thanks for working on that!18:55
mat_tseb128: np!18:56
mat_tseb128: we'll discuss tomorrow18:56
mat_tseb128: have a good evening18:56
seb128mat_t, thanks, you too18:56
mat_trickspencer3_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/LoginExperience fyi, kicked this off today18:58
rickspencer3_mat_t: great!18:59
rickspencer3_thanks so much18:59
mat_tnp, pleasure!18:59
* mat_t > home18:59
seb128lool, any clue about bug #401787?19:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 401787 in totem "Totem erroneously launches 'gstreamer-install-codec' which then crashes." [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40178719:00
seb128lool, not sure what gstreamer-install-codec is but the user says it comes with unr19:00
crevettedoes someone experienced http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588933?19:03
ubottuGnome bug 588933 in General ""Modify image" doesn't display picture but artifacts" [Normal,Unconfirmed]19:03
loolseb128: update-alternatives --display gstreamer-codec-install19:05
seb128lool, thanks ;-)19:05
seb128crevette, another duplicate of yours yes19:06
crevetteah didn't find in lp19:06
crevetteah I didn't look in gtk+19:07
seb128crevette, look to the recently open gtk+ on bugzilla.gnome.org19:08
seb128crevette, it's a csw issue, I've opened it there19:08
crevetteyeah, I'm looking to dup it19:08
crevettethx a lot19:08
=== mac__v is now known as mac_v
seb128bratsche, there?21:03
bratscheseb128: Hey, yeah.21:03
seb128bratsche, hello21:04
seb128bratsche, gtk question for you21:04
* bratsche hides :)21:04
seb128we have a gtk application using gtkbuilder which does that21:04
seb128builder = gtk_builder_new ();21:04
seb128ui = GTK_UI_MANAGER (gtk_builder_get_object (builder, "uimanager1"));21:04
seb128launchpad_integration_add_ui (ui, "/ui/menubar1/help1/LaunchpadItems");21:04
seb128g_object_unref (G_OBJECT (builder));21:05
seb128gtk_main ();21:05
seb128is the g_object_unref correct there?21:05
seb128bratsche, the launchpad function is basically a wrapper around gtk_ui_manager_add_ui()21:06
bratscheseb128: I'm not sure.. but seems like it's probably fine.21:06
seb128bratsche, the menu items are not displayed but they are displayed if the g_object_unref call is commented21:06
seb128which sort of puzzle me now ;-)21:06
seb128so I'm trying to figure what's going on21:07
bratscheOh, well then I guess I'm wrong. :)   I actually have not used gtkbuilder for anything yet personally, so I'd just go with what works.21:07
seb128well I'm wondering what's going on21:07
bratscheIt does seem kind of unintuitive.21:07
seb128gtk_builder_get_object() doesn't increment the ref count21:07
* bratsche takes a peek in the code21:08
seb128but I would expect I can free the object after the gtk_ui_manager_add_ui() call21:08
seb128bratsche, if you don't know don't bother, I figured you might have a clue, thanks anyway21:08
bratscheseb128: Oh okay.. interesting.  So if you look at gtk_builder_get_object() it's doing: return g_hash_table_lookup (builder->priv->objects, name);21:09
bratscheseb128: Try refing the UIManager after you get it, before you unref the builder.21:10
bratscheJust a thought.21:10
bratscheseb128: gtk_builder_get_object () docs say it doesn't ref the returned object.. and then the next thing you're doing is unrefing the builder, so that probably unrefs your UIManager.21:11
seb128bratsche, that works, which is somewhat what I guessed but I don't understand why21:11
seb128bratsche, right, <seb128> gtk_builder_get_object() doesn't increment the ref count21:11
bratscheYeah.. when you said that it hadn't yet occurred to me that when you're unreffing the builder that it's probably unrefing the UIManager.21:12
seb128bratsche, but the uimanager is on screen as part of the gtkbuilder ui, should it be still refed somewhat?21:12
bratscheSince the UIManager is contained in the builder.21:12
seb128or those a different memory spaces?21:12
seb128a -> are21:12
seb128I mean the program is running, the UI is on screen as are the menus21:13
seb128so the object are referenced somehow21:13
bratscheWhat does launchpad_integration_add_ui() do?21:13
seb128but not in this sourcefile21:13
seb128bratsche, gtk_ui_manager_add_ui() basically21:13
seb128    gtk_ui_manager_insert_action_group (ui, action_group, -1);21:13
seb128gtk_ui_manager_add_ui (ui,21:13
seb128I guess I will just refcount it and not try to understand21:14
seb128I though that would add the items to the existing object21:14
seb128and that we would not need to keep the reference in the source but that might not be the case21:14
bratscheI'd have to dig into it further.. but my guess is that UIManager is being unref'd before the menus get merged in somehow.21:15
bratscheseb128: Oh oh oh..21:15
seb128bratsche, that would explain it, is there a way to force the uimanager update or something?21:16
bratscheseb128: Probably because when you unref the builder, it unrefs the UIManager immediately.  But when you gtk_ui_manager_add_ui() some of the fu in there may not happen until the next GMainContext iteration.21:16
seb128not that I care referencing the uimanager once, I'm rather curious there21:16
bratscheseb128: s/Probably/Possibly anyway :)21:17
seb128bratsche, that's it! thanks!21:18
seb128bratsche, adding while (gtk_events_pending ()) gtk_main_iteration (); before the unref makes it work21:18
seb128bratsche, any other better way to do that? ;-)21:18
bratscheI've thought of this idea before that g_object_unref() should not immediately free the object if it hits 0, until the next context iteration.21:19
bratscheseb128: Yeah, maybe putting it in an idle callback?21:19
seb128what, the unref?21:19
seb128I think I will just go with the "g_object_ref (ui);"21:20
seb128as said I doubt referencing ui once in the program run will make any difference21:20
seb128and that's by far the easiest way suggested there ;-)21:20
seb128bratsche, but thanks for the explanation, now it makes sense21:20
seb128I didn't though that the unref could act before the menu merging21:20
seb128Ampelbein, ^ the issue with your update explained21:21
seb128ups wrong focus21:21
Ampelbeinseb128, bratsche: thanks, will read it21:22
seb128Ampelbein, I'm doing the tweak and upload21:23
chrisccoulsonseb128 / bratsche - that's interesting. i was also quite confused by Ampelbein's issue too21:28
=== kenvandif is now known as kenvandine
bratscheYeah, I've run into similar issues a few times in the past.  This is why I wish the actual memory freeing happened on the next context iteration.21:29
bratscheBut I'm afraid of trying to propose a change like that because it seems like something that may potentially cause problems.  I don't know, I should ask other gtk people what they think.21:29
bratscheIt seems like it should work correctly.21:30
seb128_bratsche, sorry got disconnected and probably missed what you wrote just before, but yeah behaviour changes are always tricky21:30
seb128_though in this case it should just make work things which are sort of racy now21:30
bratsche<bratsche> Yeah, I've run into similar issues a few times in the past.  This is why I wish the actual memory freeing happened on the next context iteration.21:31
seb128_that would be nice indeed21:31
seb128_chrisccoulson, yes21:31
seb128_chrisccoulson, "yeah" I mean ;-)21:32
chrisccoulsonheh ;)21:32
seb128_or "hey"21:32
seb128_doh, I'm sleepy already!21:32
Ampelbeinat least i'm glad it was not a "ohh, how could he not see that" issue ;-)21:32
seb128_Ampelbein, ;-)21:32
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i'm quite sleepy too21:32
chrisccoulsonand i'm up at 430am tomorrow:(21:32
bratscheYeah, you're up pretty late.21:32
seb128_chrisccoulson, will you fix the g-s-d .install tonight?21:32
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, just doing that now21:33
seb128_chrisccoulson, urg, you should go to bed now21:33
chrisccoulsonthen i should probably go to bed21:33
* chrisccoulson hates early mornings21:33
seb128_chrisccoulson, I was going to say that you can include your disk space change too if you want21:33
bratscheAfter getting back from GC, I'm trying to get in the habit of being up a bit earlier since most people on my team are in Europe.21:33
seb128_chrisccoulson, but you probably want to sleep rather ;-) and next tarball are due in a week21:33
bratscheSo I've been pretty good about getting up around 7-7:30am now.21:33
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i don't mind. it's been committed to git now21:33
chrisccoulsonit wouldn't take long to include it now21:33
seb128_bratsche, 7am is really the basis line for me, before that it's way too early21:34
seb128_I like waking up between 8am and 9am21:34
seb128_and start working around 9-9:3021:34
chrisccoulsonthose are my sort of hours too ;)21:34
seb128_but I'm lucky to be in Europe where most of my team is ;-)21:35
chrisccoulsonbut the people i'm working with tomorrow are all early starters21:35
chrisccoulsoni shall finish at 2pm on-the-dot though when they stop paying me21:35
bratscheseb128_: Well, in school I got into the habit of studying and practicing very late.. and I'd usually get to sleep around 4:30-5:00am.  And my last job was 9 hours behind me, so I was still on this "get up at 11am" schedule and it was just fine with them. :)21:35
seb128_chrisccoulson, you work with people in other countries or just start really early?21:35
bratscheOf course, I also worked until 8pm or later there. :)21:36
seb128_hehe, I know this school schedule ;-)21:36
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i'm working away tomorrow, and the people i'm working with start much earlier than me21:36
seb128_I was doing 3am to 11am at school too21:36
seb128_chrisccoulson, oh ok, good luck then!21:36
seb128_I will not make you stay away from your upgrade and sleep then ;-)21:36
bratscheI went to music school, and it was hard to find space to practice in during the day.. but it was easier to find practice rooms at midnight and later. :)21:37
chrisccoulsoni've set the timer on the coffee machine, so i will have fresh coffee as soon as i roll out of bed;)21:37
seb128_chrisccoulson, if you can drink it that's good ;-) my stomach is not happy to digest anything before 6am usually21:37
seb128_ie when I have to wake up early I just go and get coffee later21:37
chrisccoulsonme neither, but i can usually manage some coffee. i just cant eat any food at that time21:38
* bratsche doesn't drink coffee at all so this is one less thing to worry about in the morning :)21:38
chrisccoulsoni couldn't survive without it ;)21:38
bratscheI'm unfortunately addicted to diet soda now in the afternoons.  I'd like to quit that stuff.21:39
chrisccoulsonyeah, i tend to stay away from carbonated drinks21:39
bratscheI'm sure it's very unhealthy, although I don't know exactly how.  Maybe if I knew then I'd have an easier time quitting though.21:40
seb128_better diet soda than soda though ;-)21:40
chrisccoulsonyeah, less sugar21:40
seb128_I don't like the fake sugar taste21:40
bratscheI kind of got used to it, and now I don't like the non-diet soda.  Which is kind of weird.21:41
chrisccoulsoni'm not a big fan of sugar or sweet things anyway21:41
=== bratsche is now known as bratsche_
dobeybratsche: i guess you'll know when you get cancer or diabetes :)22:27
bratschedobey, Yeah. :(22:28
bratschedobey, I should have stayed in Baltimore where I have a higher probability of dying quickly by a violent crime.22:28
bratscheAlthough here I have a higher chance of dying quickly in a horrible car crash.  Hmm.. hard to measure which is better.22:30
dobeyin dallas? it's the book depositories you really have to watch out for22:32
bratschedobey, Oh yeah.. good point.22:36
loolseb128: nautilus recommends ncb/brasero which we don't want in UNR; is it ok if I downgrade that to suggests?  desktop seed pulls brasero22:38
seb128lool, hum22:39
loolYeah that's what I was thinking as well  :)22:39
seb128it's sort of wrong22:39
seb128but I've no better suggestion22:39
loolI feel the same22:39
seb128go for it if that's really an issue for unr22:39
seb128the other way would be to add "| unr" to the recommends but I don't like that either22:40
loolFirst I need to hit Robert for pushing to the bzr branch   :-P22:40
seb128jcastro, I don't like much this install things on one click for random emails22:42
seb128jcastro, it really makes easy to trick users in installing a trojan or something22:43
jcastroseb128, ok fair enough.22:44
seb128jcastro, I'm not a security guy and I don't like it in webbrowsers either but it didn't stop other people doing that22:46
seb128jcastro, so basically I will not stay in the way of asac if he wants to do the change but I will not to do22:46
jcastroI am not too passionate about it one way or another22:47
loolseb128: Would it make sense to hide brasero if you don't have a burner22:47
seb128lool, not sure, you can use it to build cd images for example22:48
loolseb128: I think we don't mind having the files and plugins in the UNR image, but the icon in the UNR menus kind of reminds users they don't have a CD drive and is mostly useless on netbooks without a CD burner22:49
loolSo it might turn out useful and we could show it by default for people with burners but we wouldn't that on netbooks without a cd drive22:49
seb128lool, we don't have way to dynamic list menu entries right now though22:50
loolOk; let's forget about that22:50
* lool defers that whole thing22:52
seb128lool, we could have a NotShowIn=UNR though if you need that22:52
seb128lool, and you could teach UNR to respect the NotShowIn22:53
loolHmm that would probably work22:57
loolseb128: I'll defer to StevenK who's leading the UNR integration22:57
seb128lool, ok22:57
seb128lool, otherwise feel free to lower the recommends to a suggests for now22:58
loolseb128: Nah I know you'll get me in 5 years asking why we had lowered that recommends to a suggests and I wont have any log of this   ;-P23:02
seb128lool, lol23:02
seb128so I can't use that trick twice against you ;-)23:03
vuntzpitti: ping?23:08
seb128vuntz, he just went to bed I think23:08
seb128vuntz, better to let your question there23:09
vuntzseb128: ah, lazy him ;-)23:09
vuntzjust wondering about the gdm guest session stuff23:09
vuntzpitti: just wondering about the gdm guest session stuff, if you have some time to discuss this tomorrow...23:09
seb128vuntz, you can look to gdm-guest-session in jaunty23:10
vuntzseb128: yeah, I'm looking at it :-)23:10
seb128vuntz, the scripts should be pretty easy to understand, it's basically adding an user, login in using it and clean after logout23:10
loolseb128: I wonder whether it would help to move the libgdk-pixbuf definition before the pixbuf loaders in Makefile.am, otherwise no idea about the gtk+ build bug, it's ugly23:13
seb128lool, I was going to upload a non change update to see how it goes23:13
seb128lool, the makefiles didn't change between versions that somewhat puzzle me23:14
loolseb128: libtool changed in april, that seems far away23:14
seb128lool, indeed23:15
loolseb128: Otherwise perhaps all the loaders need proper _DEPENDENCIES on the lib23:15
* lool has no idea and would need to try it out23:15
* lool bed &23:15
seb128lool, thanks for the suggestions, I will try the non change upload and go to bed too23:15
asacseb128: what did jcastro ask about single click install?23:18
asacseb128: let me guess: apturl in evolution ;)23:19
seb128asac, right23:19
asacseb128: did you know that me and mvo are the ones that stay hard on keeping high barriers for getting whitelisted in apturl?23:19
asacseb128: so you cannot really easily get a trojan installed by that23:19
asacseb128: we wont allow automatic install of random repositories23:20
seb128asac, I've no clue about what apturl is doing, I just don't like the idea of one click in an email installing random debs from the internet23:20
asacseb128: its not that23:20
asacseb128: think about it as installing packages from the ubuntu archive23:20
asacseb128: anyway, this reminds me: do you disable running gdebi from evolution?23:21
asacwe should certainly do that23:21
seb128the default action is to store the file but gdebi is in the list I think23:21
asace.g. just allow debs to be safed to desktop instead of being opened in gdebi23:21
asacright. we will remove that for firefox ... similar to what they do on windows with .exe23:21
seb128the firefox open with dialog is not really nice23:22
seb128that's one of the things I've issue with since I switched23:22
asacstill ... .debs and executables linked from potentially insecure sources should only be allowed to be saved23:22
seb128the other one is the lack of easy quick bookmarks entries23:22
* asac adds a note to file a bug on all relevant bugs23:23
asacseb128: do you know if the gnome mime database has a flag like "unsecure content" or something?23:23
asaci think i saw mozilla code checking that somehow23:23
seb128asac, I don't think it has no (the database is a xdg one)23:24
asacbut could be that it was just meta data they make up on their own on top23:24
seb128vuntz, ^23:24
vuntzno idea23:28
seb128asac, btw is there a way to open new tabs when you middle click in a page just after the tab you are using?23:36
asac_seb128: reconnected ... i always add new tabs to the end - what key combo does ephy use?23:54
seb128asac_, none, you can just set it to open tabs next to where you are or at the end23:55
seb128asac_, I often open the upstream task for a bug by middle clicking on it23:56
seb128asac_, it's sort of suboptimal to have to go 15 tabs further to have a look and come back23:56
asac_i agree23:56
seb128asac_, and I guess there is no option to add text entries for quick bookmarks the way epiphany does?23:58
seb128I find having to type keyboard slow and complicated compared to entries ;-)23:58
seb128otherwise no complain about firefox it works correctly23:58
asac_you mean like live bookmark? but in the search box?23:58
seb128I've "launchpad/bugs/%s" = lp keyword23:58
asac_https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1956 ... or https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/112223:59
seb128so I do "lp 678"23:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 678 in baz "bazaar allows committing with an empty summary" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67823:59
asac_for advanced tab stuff23:59
seb128or "lp 123"23:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 123 in rosetta "There's no direct way to see the project info when translating it" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12323:59
asac_but personally i would agree that it would be beter to have an option23:59
seb128but you have to type text and remember the keyword to use23:59
asac_however, mozilla always tries to keep amount of available options low to keep UI easy23:59

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