[06:12] <LaserJock> Launchpad has just been open-sourced!
[08:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: \o/
[08:45] <LaserJock> that's what I thought :-)
[08:46] <LaserJock> highvoltage: btw, alpha 3 is coming up Thursday
[08:49] <ogra> see, MS commits code to the kernel and immediately later LP is opensourced :)
[08:50] <jsgotangco> alpha 3 wow that's fast
[08:51] <LaserJock> ogra: yeah, I can't imagine what's next, maybe -intel drivers that work or something crazy like that
[08:51] <ogra> hehe
[08:53] <highvoltage> ogra: nice observation!
[08:53] <highvoltage> LaserJock: intel drivers are made out of niceness on karmic
[08:54] <LaserJock> highvoltage: so I've heard
[08:54] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I tried to download that dvd iso last night, but it got stuck on 10MB and just retried the download throughout until this morning
[08:54] <LaserJock> highvoltage: well, it's only going to be very useful as something to rsync from at this point
[08:55] <LaserJock> we need to actually make a change for there to be anything significant
[08:55] <LaserJock> I'm not sure how we change the bootsplash, but that's something that should get done
[08:56] <LaserJock> and then as a first step make it use edubuntu-desktop instead of ubuntu-desktop for the Live part
[09:02] <highvoltage> LaserJock: the syslinux bootsplash?
[09:02] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:03] <highvoltage> ogra: can I quote you on that? The "MS commits code.." line?
[09:03] <LaserJock> we need to re-theme the DVD now that Edubuntu is back
[09:03] <ogra> highvoltage, heh, if you feel like
[09:04] <LaserJock> I wonder if I can put my thesis online when I'm done
[09:18] <highvoltage> laserjock-thesis-online.com
[09:18] <ogra> .com ?
[09:18] <highvoltage> (if the domain squatters haven't taken it yet)
[09:18] <ogra> .edu you mean :)
[09:18] <highvoltage> oops, .us
[09:18] <highvoltage> oh right
[09:18] <LaserJock> not that more than a handful of people would find it interesting
[09:19] <LaserJock> but you know, I've worked a lot on it, it's kinda sad if *nobody* reads it
[09:19] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if I can put it online though
[09:19] <LaserJock> stupid academics suck for licensing
[09:19] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm not an acedemic so I don't always understand so well... what's the point of writing a thesis again?
[09:19] <LaserJock> you do all this work and then you sign over the copyright
[09:20] <ogra> put it in ubuntuone and only share it with specific people ;)
[09:20] <LaserJock> the point of the thesis is to show original research
[09:20] <LaserJock> it is what you "defend" to get a PhD
[09:21] <LaserJock> but in the sciences anyway, it's so specific that hardly anybody is actually interested
[09:21] <LaserJock> so the biggest point right now is that grad students in my lab that follow me have a reference for what I did
[09:22] <highvoltage> LaserJock: http://imglol-secure.s3.amazonaws.com/79f7549e81.png?AWSAccessKeyId=1ZA6N11XRH5XQJCZ7MG2&Expires=1248164660&Signature=sReTqtUy6ZWZqm5IBa2H1Rqi2TY%3D
[09:22] <LaserJock> highvoltage: hahahaha
[09:22] <LaserJock> so true
[09:22] <LaserJock> I love wikipedia
[09:22] <LaserJock> it's a great research source, but you gotta go back to the originals
[09:23] <LaserJock> I was using it for some data
[09:23] <LaserJock> and it turns out it wasn't *exactly* right
[09:23] <highvoltage> heh, well at least it is a nice source for getting links to original sources
[09:25] <LaserJock> it's great if you want to just know what a subject is
[09:26] <LaserJock> like if I want to look up Brewster's Angle or Fresnel Equations or Surface Plasmon Resonance Spectroscopy :-)
[21:18] <Svenstaro> #ubuntu-installer people say no plugins exist for the installer to account for installation profile and that the plugin system isn't done. Not even the slideshow part. May I now just branch it?
[21:19] <LaserJock> Svenstaro: did they say how hard it would be to get the plugin system going?
[21:19] <Svenstaro> People are working on it but I don't want to wait.
[21:19] <Svenstaro> I'm waiting all the time for people to finish their stuff and it will never be done.
[21:19] <mhall119|work> Svenstaro: I'm sure they would appreciate you contributing to the plugin stuff
[21:20] <mhall119|work> if they currently have something written, it would be nice if you could use it for what you want, and fill in any missing functionality  you need from it
[21:22] <LaserJock> I think the installer thing is going to be a long-term thing
[21:22] <LaserJock> we should look at what is best to do for 10.04 because it will be our stable, LTS release
[21:22] <LaserJock> for karmic I think we're too late to do much
[21:22] <Svenstaro> It's just hacking in an aditional dialog slider with a drop down menue and some explainations. I don't think it's going to be particularly hard.
[21:23] <Svenstaro> Aw come on. Still a lot of time.
[21:23] <LaserJock> look
[21:23] <LaserJock> we don't even have an .iso yet
[21:23] <LaserJock> we haven't fixed any bugs
[21:23] <LaserJock> we haven't written any documentation
[21:23] <LaserJock> there's a lot to do
[21:24] <LaserJock> and 1) it's not a great idea to fork the installer and 2) we'd have to maintain the change going forward
[21:24] <Svenstaro> Then let's create an ISO already. Shout at the CD-baker guys and provide the preseed.
[21:24] <LaserJock> we have a DVD being built
[21:25] <LaserJock> but nobody has worked out the seeds yet
[21:25] <LaserJock> no biggie, but I think it's wise to kinda look at first things first
[21:25] <LaserJock> my guess is for Karmic we'll need to just install all the Main edu apps
[21:25] <LaserJock> and then leave the Universe ones as .debs that can be installed from the DVD post-install
[21:26] <LaserJock> there's also the issue of trying to do some sort of Live LTSP setup
[21:27] <Svenstaro> All that stuff just can't be too hard. Preseeds are text documents with package names in them, aren't they?
[21:27] <LaserJock> well, but there is a web of about 10 of them we have to figure out right
[21:27] <LaserJock> it's not huge but it takes somebody doing it
[21:28] <LaserJock> one of the biggest issues with forking the installer is keeping it in sync with the main Ubiquity
[21:28] <Svenstaro> I assumed so. I'll just be contributing to trunk, then.
[21:29] <LaserJock> I'm quite worried about us getting out of sync with Ubuntu on this thing
[21:29] <LaserJock> since it's technically possible for us to have a different kernel, different installer, etc.
[21:29] <LaserJock> we need to stick tight
[21:29] <Svenstaro> I imagine that some stuff NEEDS to get out of sync in order to move forward.
[21:29] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu stuff should be 100% the same
[21:29] <mhall119|work> Svenstaro: can you make your changes such that they can be used in a regular Ubuntu install?
[21:29] <LaserJock> we should basically just be adding stuff
[21:30] <Svenstaro> mhall119|work, if I put my changes to trunk, sure.
[21:30] <Svenstaro> Why are there multiple Edubuntu preseeds, anywayß
[21:31] <Svenstaro> You will know which of them have been used for the current addons cd, no?
[21:31] <LaserJock> right, but a DVD is much more complicated
[21:31] <mhall119|work> Svenstaro: if you can make a general-purpose profile selector, and get that into the mainline installer, that would be best I think
[21:31] <LaserJock> the Edubuntu seed inherit the Ubuntu seeds
[21:31] <mhall119|work> rather than Edubuntu maintaining it's own
[21:32] <LaserJock> we have seeds for ubuntu-edu-{preschool,primary,secondary,tertiary} and then edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop-kde
[21:32] <LaserJock> then you have the dvd seed
[21:32] <LaserJock> and the dvd-live seed
[21:32] <LaserJock> those depend on live and desktop seeds
[21:32] <LaserJock> what we need to figure out is how to properly override the Ubuntu seeds so that we basically have the ubuntu DVD + Edubuntu stuff
[21:33] <LaserJock> and right now we're in Alpha 3 freeze
[21:33] <LaserJock> so messing around with the seeds is probably not a great idea
[21:34] <LaserJock> after Alpha 3 then we can start changing things and seeing how they work out in the daily build
[21:34] <Svenstaro> Let's just not care about the Ubuntu timeline when Edubuntu is in a kind of "emergency".
[21:34] <LaserJock> we have to
[21:34] <LaserJock> we really need to base off of Ubuntu otherwise we create a huge headache
[21:35] <LaserJock> so a little extra work in figuring out the initial seed setup should help us in future maintainability
[21:35] <LaserJock> perhaps this weekend I can figure that out
[21:35] <sbalneav> Is edubuntu in an emergency?
[21:35]  * sbalneav looks around?
[21:36] <Svenstaro> sbalneav, I'd say so, yes.
[21:36] <sbalneav> What emergency?
[21:36] <LaserJock> well, in terms of getting things done for Karmic we need to get going
[21:36] <Svenstaro> Why not just create a list of all packages on the addon CD and put it into a preseed, done?
[21:36] <LaserJock> Svenstaro: because that's not how it works :-)
[21:36] <LaserJock> we will use the addon CD seeds
[21:37] <LaserJock> but you have to account for both the Live part of the DVD and the .deb pool
[21:37] <LaserJock> and then task name changes (that can kind of a bear, I screwed that up last time)
[21:37] <LaserJock> in any case, it'll be done for karmic
[21:38] <LaserJock> but what exactly we want to install and when is more of an issue
[21:38] <LaserJock> *what we want
[21:38] <LaserJock> nvm
[21:38] <LaserJock> I'll be back in a sec, got to run some paperwork to the grad school
[21:39] <Svenstaro> So then, it's back to waiting for me?
[21:40] <sbalneav> Why not pitch in help with bugs?  Or help me with docs?  Or help me to get sabayon functioning?
[21:40] <sbalneav> We've got tons of work to do.
[21:41] <Svenstaro> Sabayon is the application to spawn an X11 Nest to customize user profiles?
[21:41] <sbalneav> yes.
[21:41] <sbalneav> Or, jump in and become a member of the Ubuquity team.
[21:42] <Svenstaro> Can you quickly link me a list of open issues with Sabayon?
[21:44] <sbalneav> Bug #150068 is a good one.
[21:44] <sbalneav> That's the one I'm working on now.
[21:45] <sbalneav> Sabayon isn't "dead upstream", but it's "feeling-very-poorly-and-has-a-nasty-hacking-cough upstream"
[21:46] <sbalneav> so I'm rapidly seeing I'm going to have to kick in upstream.
[21:46] <sbalneav> there'
[21:46] <sbalneav> there's lots of ther bugs as well:
[21:46] <Svenstaro> Wait, does Sabayon have mass-edit functionality?
[21:47] <Svenstaro> For example if I wanted all users, one for every computer, to see the same thing when they autologin?
[21:48] <Svenstaro> Create one dummy profile using Sabayon and copy it over to every user saved on the LTSP server?
[21:50] <sbalneav> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
[21:51] <sbalneav> Svenstaro: yes, sabayon has that ability
[21:51] <sbalneav> to apply profiles to single, or groups of users.
[22:05] <Svenstaro> How do Sabayon and Pessulus relate to eachother?
[22:07] <LaserJock> Svenstaro: Sabayon actually has a copy of Pessulus in it
[22:07] <Lns> Svenstaro: in that they both help administrators configure user accounts en mass :)
[22:08] <Svenstaro> Does it make Pressulus obsoleteß
[22:08] <LaserJock> Svenstaro: Pessulus is useful if you don't need full profile management, but only does a limited number of things (related to gconf)
[22:08] <LaserJock> no
[22:08] <LaserJock> they're slightly different tasks
[22:10] <Svenstaro> Wouldn't it make sense from a user perspective if those user account management tools would be one and the same?
[22:11] <LaserJock> well, *if* you want both you just use Sabayon
[22:11] <Svenstaro> So Edubuntu will only contain Sabayon?
[22:11] <LaserJock> but many people don't want both, so Pessulus is also shipped separately
[22:11] <LaserJock> no, both
[22:11] <LaserJock> for instance, Sabayon has been broken for 1+ years
[22:12] <LaserJock> while Pessulus is still being maintained upstream and is pretty much "Just Works" for what it does
[22:12] <LaserJock> so if you don't want to control the entire desktop then Pessulus may work better
[22:12] <Svenstaro> Which branch do I fork for my working copy? There are 4 candidates that appear to be quite recent.
[22:13] <Svenstaro> What's the difference between the ubuntu branch and the upstream branch?
[22:13] <Svenstaro> And why is the trunk older than those branchesß
[22:14] <LaserJock> Svenstaro: where are you looking?
[22:14] <Svenstaro> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/sabayon
[22:15] <Svenstaro> And why is there a subversion version as well?
[22:18] <LaserJock> Svenstaro: sabayon upstream used to be SVN
[22:18] <LaserJock> Svenstaro: now it's in git
[22:19] <Svenstaro> isn't it bazaar?
[22:20] <LaserJock> Launchpad mirrors it into bzr
[22:20]  * Lns has had lots of problems w/Pessulus and gave up on it a while ago 
[22:20] <sbalneav> I'm working off of a 2.25 upstream branch I took a month or so ago.
[22:20] <LaserJock> but Gnome doesn't use bzr
[22:20] <Svenstaro> So we have a Bazaar repo that was a Git repo that was a SVN repo?
[22:20] <LaserJock> well, technically not yet
[22:21] <LaserJock> the bzr repo is still mirroring the svn repo
[22:21] <LaserJock> which is now read-only
[22:21] <LaserJock> so the bzr mirror needs to be updated to point to the git repo
[22:21] <LaserJock> but yeah, that's the general idea :-)
[22:21] <LaserJock> but that would be the right branch to grab
[22:21] <LaserJock> bzr branch lp:sabayon
[22:22] <LaserJock> it's 14 weeks old but you're probably not missing much :-)
[22:22] <Svenstaro> Why do you Ubunu folks always tend to make stuff so complicated :/. Oh well, lp:sabayon it is.
[22:23] <LaserJock> well, we're not making complicated
[22:23] <LaserJock> we're actually making it easier
[22:23] <LaserJock> but the behind the scenes stuff can get a bit scary
[22:23] <Svenstaro> That's what I meant.
[22:23] <LaserJock> Launchpad could have no code hosting whatsoever, so you'd have to go find the branch from upstream
[22:23] <Svenstaro> The devs suffer so it's easier for the user :/
[22:23] <LaserJock> in this case get the git clone
[22:24] <LaserJock> and then try to match that with the bzr branches used for packaging
[22:24] <LaserJock> in this case getting the code is as easy as: bzr branch lp:sabayon
[22:24] <Svenstaro> I'd simply export my SVN repo to my harddisk, shut down the SVN on whereever I used to host it and put up my GIT server and add my exported stuff to GIT afterwards.
[22:25] <Svenstaro> There even is a SVN-GIT converter.
[22:26] <LaserJock> sure
[22:26] <LaserJock> but that's just one upstream
[22:27] <LaserJock> if you're dealing with multiple upstreams, with different VCSes, and then your trying to have packaging branches, etc.
[22:27] <Svenstaro> Meh, let's stop discussing this. I'll cope with the overhead for now.
[22:27] <LaserJock> having LP just mirror it all into bzr makes it a lot easier
[22:28] <LaserJock> well, you don't *have* to use it if you don't want to
[22:28] <LaserJock> it's just if you want to use bzr that's where it is
[22:28] <LaserJock> if you want to use upstream's git go for it
[22:28] <LaserJock> I do it sometimes
[22:29] <Svenstaro> It would help if there were *one* definitive resource and one *definitive* way to contribute code.
[22:29] <LaserJock> of course
[22:29] <LaserJock> but this is open source
[22:29] <LaserJock> Launchpad is trying to give that definitive resource
[22:30] <sbalneav> People like to branch things, remember? :)
[22:30] <LaserJock> but it has to deal with thousands of independent projects, so it's messy sometimes
[22:30] <Svenstaro> If the projects have their own code hosting don't use Launchpad.
[22:30] <Svenstaro> No reason to make it appear in two different places.
[22:31] <LaserJock> right, but then you don't have the definitive resource
[22:31] <sbalneav> Heading home for the day.  I'll be on later tonight.