[06:12] Launchpad has just been open-sourced! [08:44] LaserJock: \o/ [08:45] that's what I thought :-) [08:46] highvoltage: btw, alpha 3 is coming up Thursday [08:49] see, MS commits code to the kernel and immediately later LP is opensourced :) [08:50] alpha 3 wow that's fast [08:51] ogra: yeah, I can't imagine what's next, maybe -intel drivers that work or something crazy like that [08:51] hehe [08:53] ogra: nice observation! [08:53] LaserJock: intel drivers are made out of niceness on karmic [08:54] highvoltage: so I've heard [08:54] LaserJock: I tried to download that dvd iso last night, but it got stuck on 10MB and just retried the download throughout until this morning [08:54] highvoltage: well, it's only going to be very useful as something to rsync from at this point [08:55] we need to actually make a change for there to be anything significant [08:55] I'm not sure how we change the bootsplash, but that's something that should get done [08:56] and then as a first step make it use edubuntu-desktop instead of ubuntu-desktop for the Live part [09:02] LaserJock: the syslinux bootsplash? [09:02] yeah [09:03] ogra: can I quote you on that? The "MS commits code.." line? [09:03] we need to re-theme the DVD now that Edubuntu is back [09:03] highvoltage, heh, if you feel like [09:04] I wonder if I can put my thesis online when I'm done [09:18] laserjock-thesis-online.com [09:18] .com ? [09:18] (if the domain squatters haven't taken it yet) [09:18] .edu you mean :) [09:18] oops, .us [09:18] oh right [09:18] not that more than a handful of people would find it interesting [09:19] but you know, I've worked a lot on it, it's kinda sad if *nobody* reads it [09:19] I'm not sure if I can put it online though [09:19] stupid academics suck for licensing [09:19] LaserJock: I'm not an acedemic so I don't always understand so well... what's the point of writing a thesis again? [09:19] you do all this work and then you sign over the copyright [09:20] put it in ubuntuone and only share it with specific people ;) [09:20] the point of the thesis is to show original research [09:20] it is what you "defend" to get a PhD [09:21] but in the sciences anyway, it's so specific that hardly anybody is actually interested [09:21] so the biggest point right now is that grad students in my lab that follow me have a reference for what I did [09:22] LaserJock: http://imglol-secure.s3.amazonaws.com/79f7549e81.png?AWSAccessKeyId=1ZA6N11XRH5XQJCZ7MG2&Expires=1248164660&Signature=sReTqtUy6ZWZqm5IBa2H1Rqi2TY%3D [09:22] highvoltage: hahahaha [09:22] so true [09:22] I love wikipedia [09:22] it's a great research source, but you gotta go back to the originals [09:23] I was using it for some data [09:23] and it turns out it wasn't *exactly* right [09:23] heh, well at least it is a nice source for getting links to original sources [09:25] it's great if you want to just know what a subject is [09:26] like if I want to look up Brewster's Angle or Fresnel Equations or Surface Plasmon Resonance Spectroscopy :-) === hfsdo_ is now known as hfsdo [21:18] #ubuntu-installer people say no plugins exist for the installer to account for installation profile and that the plugin system isn't done. Not even the slideshow part. May I now just branch it? [21:19] Svenstaro: did they say how hard it would be to get the plugin system going? [21:19] People are working on it but I don't want to wait. [21:19] I'm waiting all the time for people to finish their stuff and it will never be done. [21:19] Svenstaro: I'm sure they would appreciate you contributing to the plugin stuff [21:20] if they currently have something written, it would be nice if you could use it for what you want, and fill in any missing functionality you need from it === _Baby_ is now known as Baby [21:22] I think the installer thing is going to be a long-term thing [21:22] we should look at what is best to do for 10.04 because it will be our stable, LTS release [21:22] for karmic I think we're too late to do much [21:22] It's just hacking in an aditional dialog slider with a drop down menue and some explainations. I don't think it's going to be particularly hard. [21:23] Aw come on. Still a lot of time. [21:23] look [21:23] we don't even have an .iso yet [21:23] we haven't fixed any bugs [21:23] we haven't written any documentation [21:23] there's a lot to do [21:24] and 1) it's not a great idea to fork the installer and 2) we'd have to maintain the change going forward [21:24] Then let's create an ISO already. Shout at the CD-baker guys and provide the preseed. [21:24] we have a DVD being built [21:25] but nobody has worked out the seeds yet [21:25] no biggie, but I think it's wise to kinda look at first things first [21:25] my guess is for Karmic we'll need to just install all the Main edu apps [21:25] and then leave the Universe ones as .debs that can be installed from the DVD post-install [21:26] there's also the issue of trying to do some sort of Live LTSP setup [21:27] All that stuff just can't be too hard. Preseeds are text documents with package names in them, aren't they? [21:27] well, but there is a web of about 10 of them we have to figure out right [21:27] it's not huge but it takes somebody doing it [21:28] one of the biggest issues with forking the installer is keeping it in sync with the main Ubiquity [21:28] I assumed so. I'll just be contributing to trunk, then. [21:29] I'm quite worried about us getting out of sync with Ubuntu on this thing [21:29] since it's technically possible for us to have a different kernel, different installer, etc. [21:29] we need to stick tight [21:29] I imagine that some stuff NEEDS to get out of sync in order to move forward. [21:29] the Ubuntu stuff should be 100% the same [21:29] Svenstaro: can you make your changes such that they can be used in a regular Ubuntu install? [21:29] we should basically just be adding stuff [21:30] mhall119|work, if I put my changes to trunk, sure. [21:30] Why are there multiple Edubuntu preseeds, anywayß [21:31] You will know which of them have been used for the current addons cd, no? [21:31] right, but a DVD is much more complicated [21:31] Svenstaro: if you can make a general-purpose profile selector, and get that into the mainline installer, that would be best I think [21:31] the Edubuntu seed inherit the Ubuntu seeds [21:31] rather than Edubuntu maintaining it's own [21:32] we have seeds for ubuntu-edu-{preschool,primary,secondary,tertiary} and then edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop-kde [21:32] then you have the dvd seed [21:32] and the dvd-live seed [21:32] those depend on live and desktop seeds [21:32] what we need to figure out is how to properly override the Ubuntu seeds so that we basically have the ubuntu DVD + Edubuntu stuff [21:33] and right now we're in Alpha 3 freeze [21:33] so messing around with the seeds is probably not a great idea [21:34] after Alpha 3 then we can start changing things and seeing how they work out in the daily build [21:34] Let's just not care about the Ubuntu timeline when Edubuntu is in a kind of "emergency". [21:34] we have to [21:34] we really need to base off of Ubuntu otherwise we create a huge headache [21:35] so a little extra work in figuring out the initial seed setup should help us in future maintainability [21:35] perhaps this weekend I can figure that out [21:35] Is edubuntu in an emergency? [21:35] * sbalneav looks around? [21:36] sbalneav, I'd say so, yes. [21:36] What emergency? [21:36] well, in terms of getting things done for Karmic we need to get going [21:36] Why not just create a list of all packages on the addon CD and put it into a preseed, done? [21:36] Svenstaro: because that's not how it works :-) [21:36] we will use the addon CD seeds [21:37] but you have to account for both the Live part of the DVD and the .deb pool [21:37] and then task name changes (that can kind of a bear, I screwed that up last time) [21:37] in any case, it'll be done for karmic [21:38] but what exactly we want to install and when is more of an issue [21:38] *what we want [21:38] nvm [21:38] I'll be back in a sec, got to run some paperwork to the grad school [21:39] So then, it's back to waiting for me? [21:40] Why not pitch in help with bugs? Or help me with docs? Or help me to get sabayon functioning? [21:40] We've got tons of work to do. [21:41] Sabayon is the application to spawn an X11 Nest to customize user profiles? [21:41] yes. [21:41] Or, jump in and become a member of the Ubuquity team. [21:42] Can you quickly link me a list of open issues with Sabayon? [21:44] Bug #150068 is a good one. [21:44] Launchpad bug 150068 in sabayon "Sabayon editor crashes when trying to make a change in a profile" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150068 [21:44] That's the one I'm working on now. [21:45] Sabayon isn't "dead upstream", but it's "feeling-very-poorly-and-has-a-nasty-hacking-cough upstream" [21:46] so I'm rapidly seeing I'm going to have to kick in upstream. [21:46] there' [21:46] there's lots of ther bugs as well: [21:46] Wait, does Sabayon have mass-edit functionality? [21:47] For example if I wanted all users, one for every computer, to see the same thing when they autologin? [21:48] Create one dummy profile using Sabayon and copy it over to every user saved on the LTSP server? [21:50] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs [21:51] Svenstaro: yes, sabayon has that ability [21:51] to apply profiles to single, or groups of users. [22:05] How do Sabayon and Pessulus relate to eachother? [22:07] Svenstaro: Sabayon actually has a copy of Pessulus in it [22:07] Svenstaro: in that they both help administrators configure user accounts en mass :) [22:08] Does it make Pressulus obsoleteß [22:08] Svenstaro: Pessulus is useful if you don't need full profile management, but only does a limited number of things (related to gconf) [22:08] no [22:08] they're slightly different tasks [22:10] Wouldn't it make sense from a user perspective if those user account management tools would be one and the same? [22:11] well, *if* you want both you just use Sabayon [22:11] So Edubuntu will only contain Sabayon? [22:11] but many people don't want both, so Pessulus is also shipped separately [22:11] no, both [22:11] for instance, Sabayon has been broken for 1+ years [22:12] while Pessulus is still being maintained upstream and is pretty much "Just Works" for what it does [22:12] so if you don't want to control the entire desktop then Pessulus may work better [22:12] Which branch do I fork for my working copy? There are 4 candidates that appear to be quite recent. [22:13] What's the difference between the ubuntu branch and the upstream branch? [22:13] And why is the trunk older than those branchesß [22:14] Svenstaro: where are you looking? [22:14] https://code.edge.launchpad.net/sabayon [22:15] And why is there a subversion version as well? [22:18] Svenstaro: sabayon upstream used to be SVN [22:18] Svenstaro: now it's in git [22:19] isn't it bazaar? [22:20] Launchpad mirrors it into bzr [22:20] * Lns has had lots of problems w/Pessulus and gave up on it a while ago [22:20] I'm working off of a 2.25 upstream branch I took a month or so ago. [22:20] but Gnome doesn't use bzr [22:20] So we have a Bazaar repo that was a Git repo that was a SVN repo? [22:20] well, technically not yet [22:21] the bzr repo is still mirroring the svn repo [22:21] which is now read-only [22:21] so the bzr mirror needs to be updated to point to the git repo [22:21] but yeah, that's the general idea :-) [22:21] but that would be the right branch to grab [22:21] bzr branch lp:sabayon [22:22] it's 14 weeks old but you're probably not missing much :-) [22:22] Why do you Ubunu folks always tend to make stuff so complicated :/. Oh well, lp:sabayon it is. [22:23] well, we're not making complicated [22:23] we're actually making it easier [22:23] but the behind the scenes stuff can get a bit scary [22:23] That's what I meant. [22:23] Launchpad could have no code hosting whatsoever, so you'd have to go find the branch from upstream [22:23] The devs suffer so it's easier for the user :/ [22:23] in this case get the git clone [22:24] and then try to match that with the bzr branches used for packaging [22:24] in this case getting the code is as easy as: bzr branch lp:sabayon [22:24] I'd simply export my SVN repo to my harddisk, shut down the SVN on whereever I used to host it and put up my GIT server and add my exported stuff to GIT afterwards. [22:25] There even is a SVN-GIT converter. [22:26] sure [22:26] but that's just one upstream [22:27] if you're dealing with multiple upstreams, with different VCSes, and then your trying to have packaging branches, etc. [22:27] Meh, let's stop discussing this. I'll cope with the overhead for now. [22:27] having LP just mirror it all into bzr makes it a lot easier [22:28] well, you don't *have* to use it if you don't want to [22:28] it's just if you want to use bzr that's where it is [22:28] if you want to use upstream's git go for it [22:28] I do it sometimes [22:29] It would help if there were *one* definitive resource and one *definitive* way to contribute code. [22:29] of course [22:29] but this is open source [22:29] Launchpad is trying to give that definitive resource [22:30] People like to branch things, remember? :) [22:30] but it has to deal with thousands of independent projects, so it's messy sometimes [22:30] If the projects have their own code hosting don't use Launchpad. [22:30] No reason to make it appear in two different places. [22:31] right, but then you don't have the definitive resource [22:31] Heading home for the day. I'll be on later tonight.