[07:45] <slacker_nl> can someone give comments on this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
[07:46] <slacker_nl> i realize it is not up to standards, but if someone reads it and gives comments/check for typo's errors or other things I might have overlooked it would be much appreciated
[07:51] <Flannel> Why not just link to the appropriate other pages?
[07:53] <rww> Flannel: you mean like the "(for link see the See also section)" bit? I was wondering that too.
[07:53] <Flannel> Well, we have pages from Breezy on which are up-to-date (or at the very least, mostly up to date and can certainly be made up to date)
[07:54] <Flannel> that is, the upgrade from Breezy to Dapper.  BreezyUpgradeNotes is on wiki.ubuntu.com, and hasn't really been taken care of.
[07:55] <Flannel> As far as your instructions, I'd stay away from sed/perl statements, and show them the sources.list they should have when switching to old-releases and stuff.
[07:56] <Flannel> Your sed lines won't work for some configurations, like if they've totally broken them, or are using other mirrors (well, were)
[07:57] <Flannel> and also, you never mention ensuring proper metapackages are installed
[07:57]  * Flannel is sure thats not exhaustive, but its a good start.
[07:59] <slacker_nl> which metapackages? the update-manager packages need to be installed, which is mentioned several times
[07:59] <Flannel> update-manager didn't exist for pre-dapper upgrades
[07:59] <Flannel> well, insofar as taking care of upgrades.
[08:00] <slacker_nl> yes, that's done via dist-upgrade
[08:00] <Flannel> a kernel metapackage (such as linux-686 or linux-686-smp, etc), ubuntu-standard, ubuntu-minimal, and an appropriate -desktop (ubuntu-desktop)
[08:00] <slacker_nl> Flannel: that will be installed by any default ubuntu release
[08:00] <Flannel> right, but dist-upgrade won't work without the proper metapackages
[08:01] <slacker_nl> ubuntu-standard is installed on a cli install iirc
[08:01] <Flannel> slacker_nl: You can't assume that they're not going to still be installed though.
[08:02] <Flannel> While I admit -standard and -minimal likely won't be removed, -desktop and kernel metapackages do.
[08:02] <slacker_nl> desktop packages are not needed to upgrade (at least, my server installations don't need them and you don't need them to upgrade)
[08:02] <Flannel> slacker_nl: Correct, but they're needed for a successful desktop upgrade.
[08:03] <slacker_nl> i will add the kernel packages
[08:03] <slacker_nl> Flannel: will have to test that
[08:04] <rww> slacker_nl: metapackages being installed or not is one of those things that's not absolutely necessary (and stuff will sometimes work without them), but it's a really good idea and averts a bunch of possible problems.
[08:04] <Flannel> any new programs, or things we've changed, generally get done via -desktop
[08:05] <Flannel> It won't cause the upgrade to fail, but if the point of upgrading is "get the same as I would have with a reinstall" then without the proper metapackages, that won't succeed.
[08:05] <slacker_nl> rww: true, however, very easy to fix by aptitude install $rel-desktop package
[08:06] <Flannel> slacker_nl: Which is exactly what I said should be included in the instructions
[08:06] <slacker_nl> ahh, I see what you mean, if a new package got added by -desktop (which was not in the previous release) it would not be installed if the meta package did not exist
[08:07] <Flannel> but again, for everything after hoary to breezy, why not just link to the current upgrade notes?
[08:10] <slacker_nl> 6.10 to 8.04 is not documented (properly) at the wiki's
[08:11] <slacker_nl> that is the reason why i started that guide ;)
[08:11] <Flannel> 6.10 to 8.04 isn't supported, that's why.
[08:11] <Flannel> To go to 6.10 to 8.04, you have to go 6.10 to 7.04 to 7.10 to 8.04
[08:11] <slacker_nl> i know, that's why i started the EOLupgrades
[08:11] <slacker_nl> yes
[08:11] <slacker_nl> very easy btw
[08:12] <slacker_nl> i've done it half a year ago
[08:12] <Flannel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgrades?action=recall&rev=60
[08:13] <Flannel> They're all there... juts been removed for some stupid reason.
[08:13] <rww> ah! I knew I'd seen those instructions somewhere. I went looking for them the other day and couldn't find them :(
[08:13] <Flannel> slacker_nl: Perhaps you should just move that page to EOLUpgrades/Feisty or something
[08:13] <Flannel> and then link to it
[08:14] <Flannel> (likewise for the others)
[08:14] <Flannel> that'd make it much easier to handle in the future... move page from /*Upgrades to /EOLUpgrades/*Upgrades
[08:15] <slacker_nl> Flannel: could do that
[08:16] <Flannel> It doesn't really need to be moved I suppose.
[08:16] <Flannel> But, it might keep people from deleting it
[08:16] <slacker_nl> Feisty is redirected to eol upgrades, found out myself 3 days ago
[08:17] <Flannel> right, you can revert it though
[08:18] <Flannel> Keeping each upgrade separate is good though, a monolithic page will get confusing, and its less easy to link directly to where you want to put someone.
[08:20] <slacker_nl> Flannel: don't know why he did it, thought he was someone special
[08:20] <slacker_nl> so didn't bother with it
[20:07] <enhickman> I believe there is spam on your wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/SpellingPunctuationGrammar search for "FANBOYS"? if its not spam it makes the sentence very confusing.
[22:38] <rww> enhickman: It's meant as a mnemonic: if you take the first letter of each of the listed conjunctions, you get that word. It is confusing, though.
[22:40] <enhickman> Ah thanks I get it now.