[00:02] <jayteeuk> I'm following up on a post by Justin Dugger that I read today.
[00:04] <jayteeuk> I'd like to help out with the effort to get Eclipse up to date.
[00:05] <jayteeuk> It looks like doko has made a massive step forward, but it still seems under threat due to these bundled libraries.
[00:05] <jayteeuk> Do we know what they are and what's involved in getting Eclipse to use the system-wide ones instead?
[00:09] <dupondje> could somebody give a look @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dutch/+bug/307667
[00:15] <stochastic> Is there a proper way to edit patches with cdbs-edit-patch ?  I make the changes I need in the shell with nano, but upon exit, the created patch is empty... do I need to use a different editor?
[00:33] <dtchen> stochastic: can you elaborate?
[00:34] <jayteeuk> Mighty quiet in here...
[00:34] <dtchen> stochastic: generally cdbs-edit-patch(1) is invoked with some arguments
[00:42] <jayteeuk> pwnguin: tjaalton: Are either of you there?  You're both mentioned in Justin's post, dunno if you can help....
[00:59] <jayteeuk> Right, I'm exhausted.  Time for bed.
[01:06] <stochastic> dtchen, I run "cdbs-edit-patch 00_denemo_desktop.patch" then in the shell I execute "nano ../../pixmaps/denemo.desktop" edit the file, then on exit, an empty patch file is created
[01:09] <Ampelbein> stochastic: does it make a difference if you run "cdbs-edit-patch debian/patches/00_den....patch" directly from the source?
[01:11] <stochastic> Ampelbein, no same result occurs
[01:14] <Ampelbein> stochastic: what package are you trying?
[01:14] <stochastic> To clarify further, I'm updating the denemo package, it has two patches already in the package but upon moving the debian file from the old package to the new package the patches error out in the build.  I wiped the patches out and am attempting to re-create them
[01:16] <stochastic> also, when I ran cdbs-edit-patch on the old patches (inside the new version 0.8.6 of denemo) it gave errors
[01:17] <stochastic> the files that are being patched haven't moved from version to version, but I think the contents may have changed slightly
[01:22] <stochastic> Ampelbein, if you're looking into this, I'd love to hear your insights, but I've got to step out for two hours or so, feel free to private message me
[01:22] <Ampelbein> stochastic: you did remove the tarball rule from debian/rules? that seems to be not necessary anymore since upstream ships the source untarred
[01:23] <Ampelbein> stochastic: and when removing that rule, everything works as expected.
[01:28] <stochastic> Ampelbein, okay I missed that.  Infact I updated the version number in that rule.  I'm new to cdbs - my bad.
[01:29] <Ampelbein> stochastic: no problem.
[01:36] <stochastic> Ampelbein, just to make sure I understand, it's the include tarball line that needs to be deleted/commented out for the patches to work correctly?
[01:37] <Ampelbein> stochastic: yes, the tarball.mk rule needs to be removed. and the DEB_TAR_SRCDIR variable is only used by tarball.mk so it can be removed, too.
[01:38] <stochastic> ahh okay, thanks.  no time to test/confirm, I've got to run, but I trust you're right.  Thanks.
[01:39] <Ampelbein> stochastic: you're welcome.
[03:03] <pfm> Hi people
[03:04] <pfm> hello everybody
[03:05] <nhandler> Hello pfm
[03:14] <pfm> well, I'll continue reading the MOTU guide
[03:14] <pfm> meanwhile, is anybody here interested in mentoring?
[03:15] <nhandler> pfm: You should read through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring and contact the Mentoring Reception if you are really interested in a mentor (which is not a requirement)
[03:15] <pfm> also I'd like to know if 20 hours a week of dedication is enough for a motu wanabe
[03:15] <pfm> or it is needed more?
[03:15] <nhandler> pfm: It all depends on what you are planning on doing. The more teams you join, the more time you will need to devote
[05:18] <mdomsch> superm1, ping re dkms dep on lsb
[05:19] <mdomsch> oh, right, dkms isn't in universe anymore, it's in core
[05:33] <RoAkSoAx> Anyone knows how to specify different CFLAGS on debian/rules for each Makefile under the same package? (The package uses 2 different Makefile, one compiles the binary, and the other the libs)
[05:52] <fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, export CFLAGS just before calling make command? (in the same line, separated by && )?
[05:53] <fabrice_sp> there is only one configure command or 2?
[05:54] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, make class Binary Makefile, which first calls the libraries Makefile, compiles them, then it comes back and compiles the binary. So yes, just one make, no configure
[05:54] <fabrice_sp> patch the makefile?
[05:55] <fabrice_sp> when you say comes back, it's because there is 2 different directories?
[05:55] <fabrice_sp> and 2 differents 'sub-makefiles'?
[05:56] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, yes. /Makefile calls libipvs/Makefile, which it compiles libipvs, and then it comes back to /Makefile and compiles ipvsadm
[05:57] <fabrice_sp> so you can patch each Makefiles to alter compilation flags
[05:59] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, right, but isn't it possible to specify them on debian/rules (for each Makefile)?
[06:01] <fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, hmmm. You could manually call each makefile in the rules file, setting CFLAGS
[06:01] <fabrice_sp> so you will have 2 make calls instead of one
[06:02] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, and patch Makefile to avoid calling libipvs/Makefile ?
[06:03] <fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, it Makefile is done well, it will detect that libipvs targets has been compiled, and wouldn't compiled them again
[06:03] <fabrice_sp> if Makefile...
[06:04] <fabrice_sp> so you wouldn't need to patch Makefile.
[06:04] <fabrice_sp> but it has to be tested
[06:04] <RoAkSoAx> I see... I'll try that and see how it goes
[06:04] <RoAkSoAx> thanks ;)
[06:06] <fabrice_sp> ;-)
[06:21]  * RoAkSoAx is off to sleep, night all
[07:10] <stochastic> I'm attempting to update a package and along the way fix a mimetype association bug.  Problem is that I've made the mime file (as seen here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/223288/ ) and the rules file (seen here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/223290/ ) uses cdbs, and from my reading I think that is all that's needed, but the mime file isn't getting installed.
[07:17] <jmarsden> stochastic: What have you tried to debug this?  During the build process are you seeing dh_installmime being run?  Do you see a file usr/lib/mime/packages/denemo in the build dir after the build step is completed?  Do your postinst and postrm end up with the appropriate commands in them?
[07:19] <stochastic> jmarsden, I actually did just find my usr/lib/mime/packages/denemo installed, but looking at other files in that directory, I realize it's not the right place for the file I've created.  I need the file to be put in /usr/share/mime-info/denemo.mime
[07:19] <stochastic> should I invoke dh_install to copy the file there?
[07:21] <jmarsden> I'm not sure.  I'm not expert enough on MIME... sounds reasonable.  Maybe check what package installed some other file(s) in /usr/share/mime-info/ and grab/read their sources to check on how they got them there?
[07:22] <stochastic> good idea, I see drivel is very close to what I want...   off I go to look
[07:24] <jmarsden> stochastic: Based on the dh_installmime man page, if you can do what you need by installing to /usr/share/mime/denemo/denemo.xml then you can create debian/denemo.sharedmimeinfo instead of denemo.mime and dh_installmime will do the work for you.
[07:26] <stochastic> jmarsden, thanks I'll give that a shot
[07:29] <directhex> oh my, soyuz too?
[07:30] <al-maisan> directhex: that's right.
[07:30] <al-maisan> everything was open sourced, including Soyuz and code hosting.
[09:35] <james_w> noodles775: http://www.peterbe.com/plog/gorun.py
[09:36] <james_w> (not actually a .py script, but a blog post)
[09:36]  * noodles775 looks
[09:38] <noodles775> james_w: niiice... and very generic too :)
[09:38] <james_w> could perhaps do with a few more smarts to guess tests and things
[09:38] <james_w> and needs libnotify integration :-)
[09:39] <noodles775> Yes, some generalisations would be helpful... imagine the config for LP! :)
[09:43] <slytherin> Any java packagers here for a cross review? :-)
[09:44] <dstansby> Quick question: When you do 'apt-cache show [package name]' are you looking at binary packages or source packages?
[09:44] <james_w> binary
[09:44] <james_w> showsrc for source
[09:45] <dstansby> james_w: Thanks :)
[09:46] <directhex> slytherin, i'm told mono is a bad copy of java, so i can give a bad copy of a review, at best
[09:47] <slytherin> directhex: here you go - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=excalibur-logger
[09:50] <directhex> slytherin, changelog obviously needs a real bug number. but seems sane otherwise
[09:50] <directhex> as far as cdbs is sane...
[09:50] <slytherin> directhex: I was tols, as long as no one else is working on the package, bug number is not strictly necessary. :-)
[09:57] <james_w> it's not
[09:57] <james_w> if there's a needs-packaging then close it
[09:57] <james_w> if you are working for a while on it then file one
[09:58] <james_w> slytherin: is this different to the package I NEWed the other day?
[09:58] <james_w> though if you're not closing a bug then don't put "(Closes: #XXXXXX)"
[09:59] <slytherin> james_w: This is a different package. There is no needs packaging bug. I will remove 'Closes' entry.
[10:00] <james_w> looks pretty good to me though
[10:11] <james_w> slytherin: advocated
[10:12] <james_w> bug 399299 and bug 399326 could do with a review :-)
[10:14] <Laney> morning
[10:14] <slytherin> james_w: I will check.
[10:14] <james_w> thanks
[10:17] <james_w> morning Laney
[10:23] <slytherin> james_w: dholbach has already reviewed libnb-svnclientadapter-java and he is happy with it. Should I just upload it?
[10:23] <james_w> if you think it makes sense
[10:26] <slytherin> I guess I will try to test build it once before upload.
[10:32] <slytherin> james_w: In case you feel like adding second advocations to some more java packages/libs, monajat and swtcalendar are waiting.
[11:12] <Laney> hm
[11:12] <Laney> reprepro was surprisingly easy to set up
[11:38] <Laney> is there an apt preference to not care about repo signatures?
[11:38] <Laney> specifically to allow unsigned
[11:43] <incorrect> how can i build the unstripped versions of ffmpeg
[11:49] <slytherin> directhex: ping
[11:49] <directhex> pong
[11:49] <slytherin> directhex: is the Evolution backend of tasque known to be broken on intrepid?
[11:50] <directhex> slytherin, i don't know if it's explicitly known, but AFAIK the evolution-sharp binding in intrepid is pretty crap
[11:50] <slytherin> directhex: does this error look familiar - http://paste.ubuntu.com/223417/
[11:52] <directhex> slytherin, i know what causes it, and i can give you a patch for it, if that's what you'd like
[11:53] <slytherin> directhex: If it is just a rebuild then I will do it myself.
[11:53] <slytherin> If a simple symlink will work then even better.
[11:55] <slytherin> sumlink works
[11:55] <directhex> slytherin, can you pastebin /usr/lib/cli/evolution-sharp-3.0/evolution-sharp.dll.config ?
[11:55] <slytherin> sure
[11:56] <slytherin> directhex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/223421/
[11:57] <directhex> slytherin, okay. workaround: target="libedataserver-1.2.so.9" should be target="libedataserver-1.2.so.11" for intrepid
[11:58] <slytherin> directhex: right. Not worth an SRU is it?
[11:58] <directhex> slytherin, well, as i suspected, it's the evolution-sharp library. i don't know how wide an impact that library being broken has
[11:59] <directhex> basically the lib's build system hard-codes expected sonames in configure
[11:59] <directhex> so configure needs to be patched with intrepid's numbers
[11:59] <slytherin> directhex: Do I need to change anything else? The workaround is not working.
[11:59] <directhex> slytherin, same error?
[12:00] <slytherin> yes
[12:00] <directhex> restarted the app?
[12:00] <slytherin> yes, I did
[12:01] <directhex> and it still complains about libedataserver-1.2.so.9? how exceedingly odd
[12:01] <slytherin> right. But as I said, adding a symlink works.
[12:02] <directhex> oh, edit /usr/lib/mono/gac/evolution-sharp/*/evolution-sharp.dll.config too
[12:03] <slytherin> works now
[12:04] <directhex> right. problem is as described
[12:04] <directhex> bad soname versions hard-coded
[12:05] <slytherin> The rdepends of libevolution3.0-cil are - tasque, gnome-do-plugins, gfax and beagle-backend-evolution. Not many
[12:07] <directhex> officially, evolution-sharp 0.17 does not support EDS 2.24
[12:07] <directhex> jaunty's evo# does
[12:07] <directhex> but that isn';t even ABI-compatible
[12:08] <directhex> so we're far from SRU land
[12:08] <slytherin> he he
[12:08] <directhex> so, the way i see it, the options are: SRU to force the sonames to match, which may fix apps or may break apps. or leave it and chalk it up to "directhex has only just taken charge of mono in ubuntu right as this cycle is ending"
[12:10] <directhex> i don't run intrepid OR tasque, so i'll let you decide what you think best. i'll help out with the implementation issues, of course
[12:32] <slytherin> directhex: let me take a look on LP if there is already a bug reported.
[12:38] <slytherin> directhex: bug 285707 and bug 287332. One is open, the other is fixed in jaunty.
[12:38] <directhex> slytherin, well, the tasque one is fixed in jaunty too. question is how much we care about intrepid
[12:39] <slytherin> Right. I don't care much. :-) I will simply add the correct workaround in the bug.
[12:51] <dupondje> could somebody give a look @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dutch/+bug/307667
[12:54] <daurnimator> anyone able to help with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/396287
[12:59] <slytherin> slomo: Tried totem from Debian experimental. DVD navigation works perfectly. :-)
[13:01] <slomo> slytherin: that's nice to hear :) but please don't report just another bug that seeking doesn't work anymore with mpeg,mkv or mxf files ;) that will be fixed before 0.10.24
[13:03] <slytherin> slomo: I am not. I care more about DVD playback than the seeking of mpeg files. :-)
[13:03] <slomo> slytherin: ok :) does seeking in dvds work btw?
[13:04] <slytherin> slomo: switching to next/previous chapter works. I didn't try time base seeking. Also setting subtitles from DVD root menu works.
[13:16] <savvas0> hello, I'm reading up on the pending debian/copyright format proposal: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/ - How do I state that some files are released into the Public Domain? It wasn't clear
[13:16] <slomo> slytherin: ok :) can you confirm this bug here? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589064
[13:16] <savvas0> "License: other" and state what the author provided?
[13:20] <mok0> savvas0: sound right
[13:20] <savvas0> ok :)
[13:23] <noodles775> Hi geser, I've updated the sphinxbase package as per your feedback - let me know if you have time to check it when you're around. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/sphinxbase
[13:42] <slytherin> slomo: I will check in evening.
[15:04] <awe> StevenK: do you mind if pickup the merges for obexpushd & scmxx?
[15:04] <StevenK> awe: Go right ahead!
[15:04] <awe> danke
[15:15] <arand> Hello, I'm trying to push for an SRU of gnumeric (libgoffice) as described in https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnumeric/+bug/316502 Are there more (easy) steps that should be done there?
[15:42] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:42] <AnAnt> Hello
[15:57] <quadrispro> nellery: ping
[16:11] <Laney> wgrant: Can I trouble you for an mdt page for all reverse-{build-,}deps of ghc6 and all packages maintained by pkg-haskell-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org?
[16:12] <wgrant> Laney: Sure. I'll do that now.
[16:12] <Laney> and ghc6, hugs if you will
[16:12] <wgrant> OK.
[16:13] <Laney> thanks a lot
[16:16] <savvas0> Laney: are you a haskell packager? any chance of packaging haskell-zip-archive? :) It blocks the pandoc upgrade, bug 309528
[16:16] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 309528 in pandoc "[karmic] Please upgrade pandoc to 1.2.1 version" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309528
[16:16] <ubott2> Ubuntu bug 309528 in pandoc "[karmic] Please upgrade pandoc to 1.2.1 version" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[16:16] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 309528 in pandoc "[karmic] Please upgrade pandoc to 1.2.1 version" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309528
[16:16] <Laney> good god
[16:16] <Laney> this is a bad situation
[16:16] <savvas0> argh
[16:16] <savvas0> sorry
[16:16] <Laney> savvas0: maybe
[16:16] <Laney> if you want to do it, please come and join pkg-haskell though
[16:16] <Laney> Joachim is a good sponsor :)
[16:17] <savvas0> I'm unfamiliar with the process, if I ever finish up with my exams, I will consider it :P
[16:17] <Laney> there are lots of cabal libraries packaged
[16:17] <Laney> you can copy those
[16:18] <Laney> (plus there is cabal-debian on hackage which does lots of the hard work)
[16:18] <savvas0> I've checked out the haskell-http looks pretty easy with the cdbs .mk file hehe
[16:18] <hyperair> ...why do we have duplicate bots?!
[16:18] <Laney> cabal-debian --debianize
[16:18] <hyperair> hell, they're even fighting against each other now!
[16:18] <savvas0> hm.. thanks!
[16:18] <Laney> dunno
[16:18] <Laney> skynet?
[16:18] <hyperair> lolwut
[16:18] <Laney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(Terminator)
[16:19] <savvas0> poke the #ubuntu-bots guys :)
[16:19] <savvas0> (and/or girls, heh)
[16:20] <wgrant> Laney: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/haskell.html
[16:20] <Laney> wgrant: too kind
[16:21] <wgrant> Laney: Please try to find any omissions.
[16:25] <Laney> wgrant: Looks alright from my quick scan. I'll update you if I learn any different
[16:25] <wgrant> Laney: Great.
[16:25] <Laney> oh
[16:25] <Laney> wgrant: Doesn't include hugs
[16:25] <Laney> (hugs98 source package, sorry)
[16:25] <Laney> my bad there
[16:39] <yann2> hello
[16:39] <Laney> Does anyone fancy doing a quick new package review for me? It's alredy in Debian NEW, but I don't think it will land before FF
[16:40] <Laney> git clone git://git.debian.org/pkg-haskell/agda.git
[16:44] <yann2> I am setting up a CUPS print server for our office - and wanted to know if these drivers: http://software.canon-europe.com/software/0031040.asp  were packaged  - and if not, what the steps would be to get them packaged?
[16:45] <yann2> I couldn't find them packaged anywhere
[16:47] <wgrant> Laney: hugs98 added.
[16:47] <Laney> ty
[16:48] <AndrewGee> Hi. I fixed a bug for a python module in karmic. I nominated it for jaunty also, and wrote a patch. What do I do next? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/osm-gps-map/+bug/387043
[16:49] <ubott2> Ubuntu bug 387043 in osm-gps-map "osmgpsmap python bindings placed in site-packages rather than dist-packages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387043
[16:49] <Laney> Add debdiff, subscribe sponsors, wait
[16:49] <falktx> is this a good place to ask for help?
[16:50] <Laney> depends what kind of help
[16:50] <falktx> PPA
[16:50] <falktx> build on PPC
[16:50] <Laney> #launchpad
[16:50] <falktx> thanks
[16:50] <falktx> irc.ubuntu.com?
[16:50] <AndrewGee> Laney: I've attached the debdiff and subscribed sponsors. It's been almost 3 weeks so far. Is this right?
[16:50] <Laney> same server
[16:50] <noodles775> Hi geser, I'm not sure if you check the scrollback, but just in case, I've updated the package after your review comments at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/sphinxbase, if/when you have time.
[16:50] <falktx> bye
[16:51] <Laney> AndrewGee: Yes, just requires more patience... or more sponsors
[16:51] <noodles775> And a general question for anyone, I'm packaging a second package that depends on my first one (sphinxbase). Is there a way to test the second package in pbuilder, somehow passing in the first as a dependency?
[16:52] <AndrewGee> Laney: I subscribed motu-sru. I guess that's right. Sorry for bothering you. Just wanted to make sure I hadn't done anything wrong :)
[16:52] <Laney> AndrewGee: I haven't actually clicked. /me does
[16:53] <Laney> oh
[16:53] <Laney> I misunderstood what you want to do
[16:53] <geser> noodles775: I've seen your hilight, but didn't had time yet to re-review it again.
[16:53] <noodles775> geser: great, just when you have time. Thanks!
[16:53] <Laney> jdong, cody-somerville: bug 387043
[16:53] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 387043 in osm-gps-map "osmgpsmap python bindings placed in site-packages rather than dist-packages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387043
[16:53] <ubott2> Ubuntu bug 387043 in osm-gps-map "osmgpsmap python bindings placed in site-packages rather than dist-packages" [Undecided,Fix released]
[16:53] <ubott2> Launchpad bug 387043 in osm-gps-map "osmgpsmap python bindings placed in site-packages rather than dist-packages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387043
[16:53] <Laney> gah
[16:54] <StevenK> Why do we have two bots?
[16:54] <Laney> I have no idea. Just asked ubuntu-bots to remove one of them
[16:54] <Laney> you could kick one if you have the power
[16:54] <geser> one doesn't seem to be enough today :)
[16:59] <RoAkSoAx> Anyone knows how to specify different CFLAGS on debian/rules for each Makefile under the same package? (The package uses 2 different Makefile, one compiles the binary '/Makefile', and the other the libs 'libipvs/Makefile') Makefile first calls libipvs/Makefile to compile the libs and then it compiles the binary
[17:00] <AndrewGee> Laney: Thanks for taking a look :)
[17:00] <Laney> AndrewGee: yeah you just need to get an motu-sru guy to approve it
[17:00] <AndrewGee> Gooooood :)
[17:11] <_andre> hyperair: you there?
[17:11] <hyperair> _andre: hello.
[17:11] <_andre> hi
[17:12] <_andre> i don't know if you remember, but you suggested me to use a dh-style rules file for my packages
[17:13] <hyperair> yes i did.
[17:13] <hyperair> yeah i remember
[17:13] <_andre> i did that, as in http://codepad.org/fo6biJZ0 but for some reason, it seems it doesn't work with pbuidler (it just runs the default targets)
[17:13] <_andre> it works fine with debuild though
[17:14] <_andre> have you ever seen that behavior?
[17:14] <hyperair> you're missing out a very important part.
[17:14] <hyperair> %:
[17:14] <hyperair>     dh $@
[17:14] <hyperair> oh wait, it's there
[17:14] <hyperair> whoops
[17:14] <_andre> :)
[17:14] <hyperair> alright. what version of debhelper is in your pbuilder?
[17:14] <hyperair> rather, which pbuilder are you using to test?
[17:15] <hyperair> override rules require dh >= 7.0.50
[17:15] <_andre> version 0.183ubuntu1
[17:15] <hyperair> O_o
[17:15] <_andre> it's the one that comes with jaunty
[17:15] <hyperair> debhelper!
[17:15] <hyperair> no way.
[17:16] <hyperair> jaunty has debhelper 7.0.something
[17:16] <_andre> oh, that was from apt-cache showpkg pbuilder
[17:16] <hyperair> heh
[17:16] <hyperair> right
[17:16] <hyperair> anyway
[17:16] <hyperair> jaunty has 7.0.28
[17:16] <hyperair> if i'm not mistaken
[17:16] <hyperair> you'll need 7.0.50
[17:16] <hyperair> which means you should specify it as such inside your build-depends as well
[17:17] <hyperair> if you intend to upload it to a jaunty ppa, you're going to have to backport debhelper as well.
[17:17] <hyperair> at least 7.0.50
[17:17] <_andre> 7.2.8ubuntu1~jaunty~ppa1
[17:17] <hyperair> there are debhelper packages for jaunty and intrepid floating around which you can copy
[17:17] <_andre> that's what it says here
[17:17] <hyperair> O_o
[17:17] <hyperair> eh?
[17:17] <hyperair> do this:
[17:17] <hyperair> pbuilder login
[17:18] <hyperair> and then apt-cache policy debhelper
[17:18] <_andre> k, sec
[17:18] <hyperair> it's the debhelper version *inside* pbuilder's chroot.
[17:18] <hyperair> not the debhelper version installed in your system
[17:18] <_andre> ah, ok
[17:19] <_andre> i believe i specified karmic when creating the environment
[17:20] <_andre> 7.0.17ubuntu4
[17:22] <_andre> hmm
[17:22] <_andre> looks like it has both jaunty and karmic and defaults to jaunty
[17:24] <_andre> hmm, no, even with "--distribution karmic" it seems to have installed the jaunty environment
[17:25] <_andre> how do i update pbuilder's debhelper?
[17:28] <VK7HSE> _andre: when you created your pbuilder ... what did you use to create them? something like 'sudo DIST=karmic pbuilder create'
[17:29] <_andre> VK7HSE: sudo pbuilder create --distribution karmic
[17:29]  * hyperair uses a custom script
[17:32] <_andre> i tried running that again and it said "E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/karmic"... weird
[17:33] <hyperair> you'll need a newer debootstrap then.
[17:33] <hyperair> it isn't too hard though
[17:33] <hyperair> if you cd into /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts, you'll notice that all the ubuntu scripts are symlinks to one script. just create another symlink to the said script, and call it karmic.
[17:34] <_andre> oh, cool
[17:37] <_andre> "unknown location deb/dists/karmic/Release"
[17:37] <_andre> :/
[17:37] <hyperair> O_o
[17:38] <_andre> i ran this command:
[17:38] <hyperair> why do you have so many issues?!
[17:38] <_andre> sudo pbuilder create --distribution karmic --mirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu karmic main restricted universe multiverse"
[17:38] <hyperair> ah. that would make sense.
[17:38] <hyperair> --mirror is wrong.
[17:38] <hyperair> the manpage says just give it a url
[17:38] <hyperair> --mirror "http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu" --distribution karmic --components "main restricted universe multiverse"
[17:39] <hyperair> that's what you're supposed to do
[17:39] <_andre> oh
[17:39] <_andre> thanks
[17:39] <hyperair> you might be interested in using a pbuilderrc
[17:39] <hyperair> config file
[17:39] <hyperair> i've a one-size-fits-all config file, adapted from what i remembered of directhex's one
[17:39] <_andre> i just assumed --mirror worked the same as --othermirror, which is mentioned in the wiki
[17:40] <hyperair> --othermirror is a | separated list of deb lines
[17:40] <hyperair> i think deb-src works as well
[17:40] <hyperair> the manpage is a good read.
[17:41] <_andre> yeah, sorry
[17:41] <_andre> i had never built deb packages before
[17:42] <hyperair> =O
[17:42] <_andre> we'll move our servers to ubuntu here at work
[17:43] <_andre> it'd be cool if i could get those in the official repositories
[17:44] <_andre> our shared-hosting web servers use them
[17:45] <VK7HSE> _andre: here's a copy of my pbuilderrc file ...  http://files.getdropbox.com/u/927280/pbuilderrc   this needs to be renamed to .pbuilderrc and placed into you ~/ (home directory!)
[17:46] <_andre> thanks!
[17:46] <VK7HSE> _andre: you will need to edit the servers that are in this file to suite your local repository ...
[17:47] <_andre> ok
[17:47] <VK7HSE> _andre: my ISP is an ubuntu mirror!
[17:48] <_andre> :) nice
[17:48] <VK7HSE> anyway bedtime for me! ... near 3am !!
[17:48] <RoAkSoAx> Hey guys is there a wiki page that shows how to package Java apps?
[18:04] <RoAkSoAx> DktrKranz, don't forget to review lekhonee please. Thanks a lot :)
[18:05] <TwoToneSpirit> Is the firefox-3.5 package now firefox-3.5 final?
[18:09] <slytherin> TwoToneSpirit: yes
[18:09] <TwoToneSpirit> slytherin: Cool.  I've been using it from the firefox-security repo for a while - if I install firefox-3.5 from the jaunty repo, will it automatically change the panel icon etc?
[18:10] <slytherin> TwoToneSpirit: what panel icon?
[18:10] <TwoToneSpirit> The firefox panel icon.  And also the shortcut under applications -=> internet
[18:10] <slytherin> TwoToneSpirit: I am not sure. I have not used it.
[18:11] <TwoToneSpirit> ok
[18:11] <TwoToneSpirit> it's on my mother's computer, and obviously I just want it to be simple :-)
[18:11] <TwoToneSpirit> Thank you though.  I have been enjoying this channel more and more - very important job here obviously
[18:11] <slytherin> TwoToneSpirit: You can easily modify the panel icon.
[18:12] <TwoToneSpirit> slytherin: Yeah, I was more just curious
[18:19] <_andre> hyperair: it worked, i've just uploaded the new packages to revu, with the debhelper >= 7.0.50 build-dep and the short rules file :)
[18:23] <hyperair> _andre: great! =)
[18:23] <hyperair> which package was it again?
[18:24] <_andre> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/watchcatd, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwcat and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libapache2-mod-watchcat
[18:30] <kamalnandan> Hi..
[18:30] <nhandler> Hello kamalnandan
[18:30] <kamalnandan> hi..
[18:57] <newnoob> How can i join the MOTU team?
[18:58] <newnoob> How can i join the MOTU team? Someone please answer.
[18:58] <stefanlsd> newnoob: see the topic
[18:59] <newnoob> Which one?
[18:59] <stefanlsd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[18:59] <quadrispro> newnoob: "Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing"
[18:59] <newnoob> Thanks.
[20:32] <fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, any luck with your Makefile's nightmare?
[20:33] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, not yet really. I was thinking on not specifying the CFLAGS on debian/rules and the problem will be solved, though I don't know what would be the impact of not having them there
[20:33] <fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, why do you need to specify CFLAGS?
[20:34] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, Debian did it that way, so I was just following their changes
[20:35] <RoAkSoAx> mok0, by adding this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/223800/ on debian/rules (lighttpd), should it Build-Depend on libtool, automake, and autoconf ?
[20:35] <fabrice_sp> is it for a merge? Why not just doing exactly the same as Debian?
[20:36] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, I'm upgrading the package to latest upstream version, and CFLAGS have changed between both versions
[20:38] <fabrice_sp> And is it still mandatory to have 2 sets of CFLAGS? By the way, making first lib/Makefile and then Makefile make the the lib build 2 times?
[20:40] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, for example, according to the libipvs/Makefile, libs are built with -g -fPIC -DLIBIPVS_USE_NL and /Makefile is only built with -g
[20:43] <fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, when you say "according to libipvs/Makefile" do you mean that this is th CFLAGS of the makefile? Cnan you pastebin the Makefile and the rules file?
[20:46] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, /Makefile: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/223813/ , libipvs/Makefile: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/223811/ debian/rules: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/223814/
[20:49] <fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, I don't see the point of setting CFLAGS in the rules file as each Makefile override it at  the begining
[20:50] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, yeah I was thinking the same thing :)
[20:50] <fabrice_sp> so I would say you can ignore CFLAGS in the rules file
[20:50] <RoAkSoAx> though I was told It needed to be there, don't know why :)
[20:50] <fabrice_sp> i nthe Makefile, you have CFLAGS = ...
[20:50] <fabrice_sp> if it would have been CFLAGS += ... it would be different
[20:51] <fabrice_sp> in that case, I don't see the point of setting it (it's not used)
[20:52] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, ok then. I'll drop them. Thanks a lot.
[20:52] <fabrice_sp> you're welcome: sometimes lines just stay in a rules file, just because nobody try o delete them and see that nothing bad happen :-)
[20:54] <maco> ive used dh_make before. ive heard now though that some set of other dh_ stuff can generate what i need instead of me having to delete a bunch of files. can anyone point me to an explanation?
[20:54] <RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, haha yeah. That's why I also tried without using CFLAGS on debian/rules and it built with no problem so I was thinking on drop them, Just wanted someone with more expertize on the subject to confirm what I was thinking
[20:55] <fabrice_sp> maco, what kind of file are you deleting?
[20:55] <fabrice_sp> maybe you just need to call make clean in the clean target?
[20:56] <maco> about half of what ends up in debian/ directory... all the .ex stuff
[20:56] <fabrice_sp> ahhh, but just one time, right?
[20:56] <maco> right
[20:57] <maco> i mean after dh_make, lots of extra files are made, and i'm told there's a non-dh_make way to generate the rules/control/changelog and other necessary files
[20:57] <maco> but i dont know it
[20:58] <Laney> I don't know of it
[20:59] <fabrice_sp> neither do I
[21:00] <fabrice_sp> the 'simple' way is to copy this files from another package :-)
[21:28] <gaspa> ScottK: could you please take a look at bug #402710 (given that you replied to some of those mails)
[21:29] <Laney> did he get the sync blacklist changes reverted?
[21:31] <gaspa> Laney: i must have missed something... why it's blacklisted?
[21:31] <Laney> bug 387943
[21:32] <Laney> ...
[21:32] <gaspa> uh
[21:32] <savvas0> erm.. just to be safe, do I need to notify anyone about redistribution for any package included in Ubuntu repositories? e.g. ubuntu-restricted-extras packages?
[21:33] <gaspa> ...
[21:33] <gaspa> but .... but... he 's the same person??
[21:33] <Laney> huh?
[21:34] <Laney> any archive admin can undo it
[21:35] <gaspa> Laney: this David is the same who ask to not sync ocaml 3.11.1 and is now caring about syncing...
[21:35] <Laney> yeah that was a while ago
[21:36] <gaspa> i see.
[21:36] <maxb> gaspa: The point was not to start the transition in Karmic until is was certain it would be accomplished in Debian in time
[21:38] <gaspa> maxb: I see, but he didn't seem consciuos of the blacklist, asked by him... only that.
[21:38] <gaspa> anyway, no probs, let's ask to undo ;)
[21:48] <Quintasan> libxklavier12-dev is a Virtual package in karmic, on what I should depend? libx11-dev?
[21:51] <geser> libxklavier-dev
[21:55] <Quintasan> geser: Thanks
[22:42] <jayteeuk> Good evening all.
[22:45] <jayteeuk> Is there anyone around this evening who can help me get started with fixing the problems with Eclipse that Justin Dugger pointed out recently?
[22:55] <directhex> which one?
[22:56] <jayteeuk> Apparently doko uploaded a package for Eclipse 3.4, which is an improvement over the 3.2 previously shipped, but had some jars bundled that ought to be using the system-wide ones.
[22:59] <jayteeuk> I don't know how much time I have to dedicate to it, but I've been watching the pkg-java-maintainers mailing list and decided it's probably time I actually tried to help out instead of just sitting idly by and letting Eclipse in Ubuntu die.
[23:00] <jayteeuk> I gather part of the problem has to do with OSGi metadata not being in some system-wide jar files - that's probably why doko bundled the jars.
[23:02] <pwnguin> hi jay
[23:03] <jayteeuk> Hi pwnguin.
[23:03] <jayteeuk> I see your name was mentioned in Justin's recent commentary/call to action.
[23:03] <pwnguin> yes. yes it was
[23:03] <pwnguin> probably because
[23:03] <pwnguin> *dramatic reveal*
[23:04] <jayteeuk> Tada!
[23:04] <jldugger> I am he!
[23:04] <jayteeuk> OK, that makes sense then. :)
[23:04] <jayteeuk> It's good to put names to... uh... names. :)
[23:05] <pwnguin> well, i used to go by jldugger, but I liked the alias too much
[23:05] <pwnguin> anyways
[23:06] <pwnguin> a few questions: have you read debian-policy, and have you nabbed the latest source package from karmic?
[23:06] <jayteeuk> No and no.
[23:07] <pwnguin> well, the post linked to debian-policy, so that's a quick find
[23:07] <pwnguin> the real challenge for you will be getting source code as shipped by ubuntu
[23:07]  * jayteeuk goes to check out that link.
[23:09] <jayteeuk> I'm currently running Jaunty, btw.  Am I likely to experience severe (e.g. unbootable) breakage with Karmic, with it still being early days?
[23:09] <pwnguin> alpha 1 is out, no?
[23:10] <pwnguin> yea, it's up to alpha3 now. my technique has been to run dual boot
[23:10] <jayteeuk> To be honest I don't know - I haven't been tracking developments as closely as I'd like lately.
[23:10] <pwnguin> on a laptop
[23:11] <jayteeuk> Sounds like a plan.
[23:11] <pwnguin> you could just run a pbuilder and upgrade it
[23:11] <pwnguin> but you wouldn't be able to rest
[23:11] <pwnguin> test
[23:12] <jayteeuk> Yeah, I'm going to need some hand-holding on the whole packaging front as well.
[23:12] <jayteeuk> My only other contribution was a small patch to NetworkManager a couple of dist-upgrades ago.
[23:12] <pwnguin> that's one of the purposes of MOTU ;)
[23:12] <jayteeuk> Well I'm glad you said that. :)
[23:13] <pwnguin> of course
[23:13] <jayteeuk> I'm kind of hoping this can help to kickstart my involvement again.
[23:13] <pwnguin> eclipse isn't what i'd call a training wheels package ;)
[23:13] <jayteeuk> Oh blimey no, it's a monster!
[23:14] <pwnguin> from what i can tell, eclipse's own release build process isn't pretty
[23:14] <jayteeuk> No, so I gather.
[23:14] <pwnguin> i saw a patch to change a directory from someone's homedir
[23:14] <jayteeuk> There's work underway to improve the build process though.
[23:15] <pwnguin> so how comfortable are you with other technologies
[23:15] <pwnguin> like ant/make, Java, Eclipse itself?
[23:16] <jayteeuk> Java programmer by trade, so... use ant Java (1.3, eek! But comfortable with later releases) and Eclipse (3.4) daily.
[23:16] <jayteeuk> On Windows.
[23:16] <pwnguin> front-end java?
[23:16] <pwnguin> or server side?
[23:16] <jayteeuk> Server-side.
[23:17] <pwnguin> ok. not that it matters much, i dont think we'll need to worry about threading or UI toolkits
[23:17] <jayteeuk> I've done some reading on SWT and followed a few examples.  It all seems to basically make sense, I just need to do some hacking to drum it in.
[23:18] <pwnguin> well, the first thing a good Ubuntu Developer does is set up a test environment (as I'm sure you're aware)
[23:18] <jayteeuk> Indeed.
[23:18] <pwnguin> i just have my laptop share a homedir between stable and ubuntu+1
[23:18] <pwnguin> should anything catastrophic happen, recovery is doable
[23:19] <pwnguin> should anything super catastrophic happen, there's other computers, and liveCDs :)
[23:19] <pwnguin> some people use VM's
[23:19] <pwnguin> or chroots
[23:19] <jayteeuk> I thought about a VM, but I'm not sure how practical it would be for something as heavyweight as Eclipse.
[23:20] <pwnguin> eclipse im told takes ages to build
[23:20] <pwnguin> depending on the VM, it could take as long as... ages
[23:20] <jayteeuk> I used to use a 32-bit chroot for WSAD when I used it back in the day.
[23:21] <pwnguin> ubuntu uses a repeatable build system
[23:21] <pwnguin> the core of that is called pbuilder
[23:21] <jayteeuk> Sounds vaguely familiar.
[23:22] <jayteeuk> Possibly from my NetworkManager adventure, possibly from planet posts.
[23:22] <pwnguin> its basically a chroot with all minimal packages installed. when it starts, it makes a copy, installs all the build dependencies, and makes a new package
[23:22] <pwnguin> no "it works for me" syndrome
[23:23] <jayteeuk> Indeed - a clean environment every time.
[23:23] <pwnguin> so once you've set up a test env, pbuilder (or a PPA), you're ready to grab the source
[23:24] <pwnguin> from the test env: 'apt-get source eclipse'
[23:24] <jayteeuk> Just to go OT for a mo, do you know if Empathy does auto channel logging?
[23:24] <pwnguin> heh
[23:24] <pwnguin> im lazy
[23:24] <jayteeuk> Oh actually the logs are online aren't they?
[23:24] <pwnguin> i barely know what empathy is
[23:25] <pwnguin> but this channel should be logged
[23:25] <pwnguin> and im probably duplicating something from #ubuntu-classroom, poorly
[23:25] <pwnguin> irclogs.ubuntu.com
[23:26] <jayteeuk> Well I guess I'm being a bit lazy not going searching for those logs too. ;)
[23:26] <pwnguin> source packages are basically split into a description, the original tarball, and debian modifications
[23:26] <pwnguin> just to make things extra confusing, debian modifications come in two varieties
[23:26] <jayteeuk> Right, so that's the .dsc, .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz, right?
[23:26] <pwnguin> patching in a debian/ dir, and patches
[23:26] <pwnguin> yea
[23:27] <pwnguin> apt-get should unpack the two .gz files for you
[23:27] <pwnguin> however, it wont apply patches
[23:28] <jayteeuk> Is this where you tell me about quilt and cdbs and all those and I stick my head in the sand and hope I understand the one that's relevant? :)
[23:28] <pwnguin> i think this one uses quilt
[23:28] <pwnguin> but i only looked at 3.2
[23:28] <pwnguin> its a set of patches, that's all that really matters here
[23:29] <jayteeuk> I can do some extra reading on that anyway.
[23:29] <pwnguin> if there's still a patch to remove org.eclipse.dom.apt, i'd love someone to explain to me why
[23:30] <pwnguin> my guess is they thought they were pulling out something related to debian's apt, when it's really something about annotation processing tool
[23:31] <jayteeuk> Heh.
[23:31] <pwnguin> annotations are new as of like java 1.5C?
[23:31] <jayteeuk> Sounds about right.
[23:31] <pwnguin> i donno. when i learned java, they were big on Java2
[23:32] <pwnguin> and eclipse was some fancy new set of whitepapers about plugins
[23:33] <jayteeuk> I picked up Eclipse around 2.1, when the CVS integration was an external plugin and was awful.
[23:33] <directhex> pwnguin, sounds like me really
[23:33] <pwnguin> heh
[23:34] <jayteeuk> And IIRC JavaBeans were the next big thing when I started learning Java - Applets were all the rage.
[23:34] <pwnguin> i remember a professor assigning me to write a servlet
[23:34] <pwnguin> and never figuring out just what the hell a bean was
[23:34] <directhex> Java left a big impression on me
[23:34] <directhex> hi, i'm your friendly neighbourhood Mono maintainer
[23:35] <maco> i still dont know what a bean is...except for eating
[23:35] <jayteeuk> directhex: Why do I get the idea it wasn't a good impression?
[23:35] <maco> but i do remember the servlet thing
[23:35] <jbernard__> is anyone able to import an upstream tarball into a bzr branch using bzr-builddeb? I keep getting a failed assertion: isinstance(version,str)
[23:35] <micahg> jbernard__: lp might be undergoing maintenance right now
[23:35] <directhex> jayteeuk, where did you get that idea?
[23:36] <pwnguin> jbernard__: i think the source code release of launchpad got a bit too much publicity
[23:36] <jayteeuk> directhex: "left a big impression" rarely has positive connotations. :)
[23:36] <jbernard__> it fails for me locally, i belive it's in import_dsc.py
[23:37] <micahg> ah
[23:37] <jbernard__> i was following james' instructions in the user manual, but the merge-upstream step fails with that assertion
[23:38] <pwnguin> jayteeuk: anyways, reviewing patches with the last maintainer, or even upstream, might be a good way to get familiar with what ubuntu/debian wants
[23:38] <pwnguin> granted, we know it's not perfect
[23:38] <pwnguin> and i have no idea what osgi is
[23:38] <jayteeuk> That makes 1.5 of us.
[23:38] <pwnguin> or maven
[23:39] <jayteeuk> Same again.
[23:39] <pwnguin> apparently java developers are supposed to hate maven for being harder than ant
[23:39] <jayteeuk> I should really know this stuff inside-out.
[23:39] <pwnguin> jayteeuk: one thing you can do is add comments to patches
[23:39] <jayteeuk> But I've never used maven and I've heard differing opinions from those who have.
[23:40] <jayteeuk> Like inline source code comments, or better explanations in Changelog?
[23:40] <pwnguin> heh, ive seen packages throw away the entire upstream build tool
[23:40] <pwnguin> and just write a makefile
[23:41] <pwnguin> jayteeuk: the patches start off with #'s that can be used for comments
[23:41] <jayteeuk> Ah, OK.  That's new information for me.
[23:41] <jayteeuk> I think.
[23:42] <pwnguin> actually,
[23:42] <pwnguin> diff ignores EVERYTHING that isn't diff format
[23:42] <jayteeuk> Well, yeah.
[23:42] <pwnguin> so you can just dump it into email
[23:42] <pwnguin> but probably, # are handy for making diffs with diffs in them
[23:43] <pwnguin> all this talk about very bad revision control and diffs makes me wonder how far along packages in BZR is
[23:44] <jayteeuk> Ah yes, that's right - the .diff.gz is a patch that adds all the patches and Debian control stuff.
[23:44] <jayteeuk> I remember trying to get my head around that the first time.
[23:44] <pwnguin> it's basically the worst patch management system known to man
[23:44] <jayteeuk> :)
[23:45] <pwnguin> however some very misguided software authors require modifications to be distributed like that
[23:45] <jayteeuk> Hmmm... "If it ain't broke...", "We've always done it this way..."
[23:46] <pwnguin> well, 1) ubuntu was founded in part to stress test ideas like bzr
[23:46] <jayteeuk> But so long as I can get the thing building from source to begin with, that's a good start for me.
[23:46] <pwnguin> 2) it's a massive pita for security teams
[23:46] <jayteeuk> 1) Really?
[23:46] <pwnguin> 3) it's confusing to new developers
[23:47] <directhex> poor java folks :(
[23:47] <directhex> see, i reckon you guys would kill for some of our toys
[23:47] <pwnguin> 1) sure. canonical "bought" bzr before they announced ubuntu even
[23:47] <pwnguin> i dont really like java or c#
[23:47] <jayteeuk> I had no idea bzr even existed until long after I was using Ubuntu daily.
[23:47] <pwnguin> but i do appreciate java's ability for high scale threading
[23:48] <jayteeuk> directhex: I'll resist as long as I reasonably can and still make a living. :)
[23:48] <pwnguin> jayteeuk: perhaps because it wasn't ready for mass consumption, and git came along shortly after bzr
[23:48] <jayteeuk> But I'm happy to admit that both camps can learn a lot from each other - I just need to get other people in my company thinking the same way.
[23:49] <pwnguin> that's gotta be either devastating or vindicating, to find out a few months after you set out on bzr that Linus Torvalds is now your competitor
[23:49] <jayteeuk> Yeah, I'll say.
[23:50] <jayteeuk> Validation of the dvcs concept on the one hand, but talk about having the deck stacked against you.
[23:51] <pwnguin> so anyways, you might want to make sure all the current patches make sense first
[23:51] <pwnguin> i saw something like 30 applied to 3.2
[23:51] <pwnguin> checking that out will give you a sense of what's an acceptable sized pathc
[23:51] <pwnguin> patch
[23:51] <jayteeuk> Any monster patches that you recall?
[23:52] <pwnguin> maybe one
[23:52] <pwnguin> and a few wtf patches
[23:52] <jayteeuk> I'll see when I get the source, but it'd be nice to be prepared. :)
[23:52] <pwnguin> but they might have been dropped given that 3.2 was ages ago
[23:52] <pwnguin> like, i hope the patch with ~/eclipse/lib is gone
[23:53] <pwnguin> oh hay
[23:53] <pwnguin> http://patches.ubuntu.com/e/eclipse/extracted/
[23:54] <pwnguin> i hope you like tomcat
[23:54] <pwnguin> http://patches.ubuntu.com/e/eclipse/extracted/eclipse-add-ppc64-sparc64-s390-s390x.dpatch
[23:54] <jayteeuk> I have nothing against it really. :)
[23:54] <pwnguin> like that one, you see a ## DP: changeset blah blah
[23:55] <pwnguin> it looks like the apt one is gone
[23:55] <jayteeuk> That's a pretty useful list.
[23:56] <pwnguin> ages ago, debian developers were angry about ubuntu not shipping patches back
[23:56] <pwnguin> and other dds were angry about patch spam
[23:56] <jayteeuk> Yeah, I saw that.
[23:57] <pwnguin> this was a compromise, presumably until bzr is finally distribution scale
[23:57] <pwnguin> here we go
[23:57] <pwnguin> -JAVA_HOME = ~/vm/sun142
[23:57] <pwnguin> +JAVA_HOME ?= /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk
[23:57] <jayteeuk> You looking at my screen?
[23:57] <directhex> sometimes the best route is for the same people to actually work on both distros
[23:57] <directhex> where possible
[23:58] <pwnguin> im sure DDs love that idea
[23:58] <jayteeuk> I never really got into the whole tension between Debian and Ubuntu.
[23:59] <pwnguin> i just dont understand how ~/vm/sun142 could possibly work outside of eclipse's servers