[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
[15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00] <barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
[15:00] <allenap> me
[15:00] <noodles> me
[15:00] <mars> me
[15:00] <bac> me
[15:00] <bigjools> me
[15:01] <adeuring> me
[15:01] <henninge> ms
[15:01] <abentley> me
[15:01] <henninge> me
[15:01] <salgado> me
[15:02] <leonardr> me
[15:02] <deryck> me
[15:02] <barry> jtv, intellectronica ping
[15:02] <jtv> barry: pong
[15:02] <jtv> me
[15:02] <barry> cprov, BjornT_ sinzui ping
[15:02] <cprov> me
[15:03] <BjornT_> me
[15:03] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:03] <sinzui> me
[15:03] <barry> rockstar: ping
[15:03] <barry> gmb: ping
[15:03] <gmb> me
[15:03] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:03] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:03] <barry>  * bac to chair for the next two weeks - barry
[15:03] <barry>  * Action items
[15:03] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:03] <barry>  * deryck graduates
[15:03] <barry>  * Alphabetical sorts are case sensitive? insensitive? - barry
[15:03] <barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[15:04] <barry>  
[15:04] <barry> [TOPIC] bac to chair for the next two weeks - barry
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  bac to chair for the next two weeks - barry
[15:04] <barry> so i will not be at these meetings for the next two weeks.  bac will chair them in my absence
[15:04] <intellectronica> me
[15:04] <barry> bac: thanks!
[15:04] <bac> np
[15:04] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Action items
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Action items
[15:05] <barry>  * deryck to update js wiki page with recommendations on loading js files in devmode only
[15:05] <deryck> did it yesterday. :)
[15:05] <barry> deryck: awesome, thanks
[15:05] <deryck> np
[15:05] <barry>  * gmb to update style guides to clarify that `reST` is to be used in doctests, with existing pages to be converted at coder's discretion
[15:05] <gmb> Done.
[15:06] <barry> fantastic!  can we keep this momentum going?
[15:06] <gmb> Though I'm going to reword it to make the second part a bit more explicity.
[15:06]  * gmb has a new hobby - adjectifying adjectives.
[15:06] <barry> cool
[15:06] <barry>  * flacoste to update reviewer docs and dev wiki about avoiding permission explosions
[15:07] <barry> oops, looks like we're missing flacoste and gary
[15:07] <bigjools> autofail, he's not here
[15:07] <mars> barry, flacoste is on vacation this week
[15:07] <barry> ah thx
[15:07] <mars> and gary is at OSCON
[15:07] <barry> thx
[15:07] <bac> flacoste did add that page
[15:07] <barry> bac: super
[15:07] <barry> [TOPIC] mentoring updates
[15:07] <bac> and, it turns out, the example he cited of permission explosion was actually necessary...
[15:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring updates
[15:08] <barry> bac: oh!  did he talk about that in the wiki?
[15:08] <bac> no.  the lesson still stands...
[15:08] <barry> cool
[15:09] <barry> so.  everyone, please congratulate deryck on his graduation to full-fledged reviewership!
[15:09]  * bigjools hi-5s deryck
[15:09]  * deryck hi-5s bigjools back
[15:09] <barry> deryck: i heard glowing reports of your reviews.  i think you graduated in record time.  great job! :)
[15:09] <deryck> barry, I feel so grown up now. :)
[15:09] <barry> and thanks gmb for your mentoring
[15:10] <noodles> Congrats deryck!
[15:10] <deryck> yes gmb rocks as a mentor
[15:10]  * gmb applauds
[15:10] <gmb> deryck: Only when the student doesn't actually need all that much mentoring :)
[15:10] <barry> deryck: remember that you can now switch ocr days if you want.  just ping me in email or pvtmsg to work out any day changes
[15:10] <deryck> barry, ok, will do.  I'm flexible about that and happy to do whatever day is best for others.
[15:11] <intellectronica> congratulations deryck!!!
[15:11] <barry> one other quick note: rockstar is out tomorrow, so i will be switching my ocr this week from friday to thursday so that i can mentor leonardr
[15:12] <barry> any other mentoring issues today?
[15:12] <barry> moving on then
[15:12] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Alphabetical sorts are case sensitive? insensitive? - barry
[15:12] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Alphabetical sorts are case sensitive? insensitive? - barry
[15:13] <barry> so, in __all__ and a few other places, we want lines to be sorted
[15:13] <intellectronica> insensitive
[15:13] <sinzui> insensative
[15:13] <barry> we are currently inconsistent about this.  so i'd like to hear opinions
[15:13] <bigjools> insensitive
[15:13] <abentley> insensitive
[15:13] <henninge> insensitive
[15:14] <allenap> UCA
[15:14]  * henninge wonders if we are an insensitive bunch ...
[15:14]  * jtv feels particularly insensitive
[15:14] <intellectronica> allenap: what does uca stand for?
[15:14] <jtv> Unicode Collation Algorithm?
[15:14] <adeuring> the nice thing about case-sensitive sorting is the emacs helper we have
[15:14] <barry> ouch
[15:14] <allenap> jtv: Yep.
[15:14] <noodles> By insensitive, do we mean: from blah import Apples, apple, Banana, banana
[15:14] <barry> adeuring: agreed
[15:14] <adeuring> ...for sorting imports
[15:14] <allenap> I know next to nothing about it though! :)
[15:14] <bac> adeuring: yes.
[15:15] <barry> also M-x sort-lines is case sensitive by default :)
[15:15] <intellectronica> noodles: that's already theology, but yes, i guess caps first makes sense
[15:15] <noodles> lol
[15:15] <jtv> allenap: don't need to, it's mostly about nasty stuff like I/i with/without dots and weird orders of reading a string.
[15:15] <allenap> jtv: I didn't realise at first that we were talking just about module imports and the like. Doh.
[15:16] <allenap> ECU - Emacs Collation Algorithm.
[15:16] <intellectronica> Ulgorithm
[15:16] <allenap> Crap.
[15:16] <barry> so, am i alone in wanting case sensitive sorting? ;)
[15:16] <jtv> I still prefer insensitive... is emacs being sensitive because it just is, or because people are running it in C locale?
[15:17] <adeuring> barry: me too ;)
[15:17] <barry> jtv: it's just case sensitive by default.  you have to (setq sort-fold-case t) to make it otherwise
[15:17] <bac> i'm for sensitive but mainly due to the tools...
[15:18] <barry> this is one place i /would/ like to be consistent so we don't end up in line sorting churn
[15:18] <BjornT_> bac: !sort in vim is case insensitive
[15:18] <bigjools> heh
[15:18] <barry> BjornT_: is this going to be an emacs vs vim fight? :)
[15:18] <jtv> I've been doing insensitive...  for me converting what you already have is usually more important than Making a Decision.
[15:18] <bac> BjornT_: i should have said "my tools" but let's not go there.
[15:18] <allenap> Sensitive, so classes get sorted separately from functions.
[15:19] <barry> allenap: oh.  nice point!
[15:19] <cprov> allenap: that's a good point.
[15:19] <allenap> Finally, I say something that makes sense. Phew.
[15:19] <barry> :-D
[15:19] <intellectronica> tools aside, anything but case-insensitive is harder for humans to work with. we should optimize for that
[15:19] <noodles> +1
[15:19] <barry> intellectronica: python is case sensitive :)
[15:19] <abentley> allenap: But just in the context of imports and __all__, not in the body of the file?
[15:20] <barry> abentley: gawd no
[15:20] <allenap> abentley: Yeah, that's true. I tend to like putting functions at the top.
[15:20] <noodles> barry: but you are not a python interpreter ;)
[15:20] <barry> noodles: you're sure about that?
[15:20] <bigjools> barry: start a vote so we can move on!
[15:21] <barry> bigjools: fantastic idea
[15:21] <allenap> barry can already run the python 4.0 bytecode.
[15:21] <sinzui> I wish I could find this discussion from two years ago. This is not the first time we have discussed this
[15:21] <noodles> lol
[15:21] <barry> #startvote sort __all__ and similar case insensitive = -1, case sensitive = +1
[15:21] <jtv> guys, no Turing tests here please
[15:21] <bigjools> yeah I have deja vu
[15:21] <barry> #startvote
[15:21] <adeuring> +1
[15:21] <sinzui> -1
[15:21] <jtv> 0
[15:21] <bac> +1
[15:21] <cprov> +1
[15:21] <allenap> +1
[15:21] <bigjools> botfail
[15:21] <intellectronica> -1
[15:21] <noodles> -1
[15:21] <BjornT_> -1
[15:21] <barry> hang on folks!
[15:21] <barry> [VOTE]
[15:22] <MootBot> Please vote on: .
[15:22] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:22] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
[15:22] <allenap> +1
[15:22] <barry> okay, now!
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from allenap. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:22] <gmb> +1
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from gmb. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:22] <intellectronica> -1
[15:22] <MootBot> -1 received from intellectronica. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:22] <barry> +1
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from barry. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:22] <cprov> +1
[15:22] <BjornT_> -1
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from cprov. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[15:22] <bac> +1
[15:22] <MootBot> -1 received from BjornT_. 4 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:22] <jtv> 0
[15:22] <noodles> -1
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from bac. 5 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[15:22] <sinzui> -1
[15:22] <MootBot> -1 received from noodles. 5 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:22] <MootBot> -1 received from sinzui. 5 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:22] <jtv> +0
[15:22] <MootBot> Abstention received from jtv. 5 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:22] <abentley> +1
[15:22] <bigjools> -1
[15:22] <adeuring> +1
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from abentley. 6 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:22] <MootBot> -1 received from bigjools. 6 for, 5 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from adeuring. 7 for, 5 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:22] <salgado_> -1
[15:22] <MootBot> -1 received from salgado_. 7 for, 6 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:22] <henninge> -1
[15:22] <MootBot> -1 received from henninge. 7 for, 7 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[15:22] <deryck> +1
[15:22] <MootBot> +1 received from deryck. 8 for, 7 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:22] <bigjools> jtv you meanie
[15:22]  * barry is on the edge of his seat!
[15:22] <gmb> This is the tensest vote evar.
[15:22] <mars> 0
[15:22] <sinzui> flacoste is a vim users and a human being: he would vote -1
[15:22] <bigjools> agh another fence-sitter!
[15:22] <jtv> bigjools: I _honestly_ _don't_ _care_
[15:23] <abentley> -1
[15:23] <barry> yeah, but gary would definitely vote +1 <wink>
[15:23] <gmb> I'm a vim user and a human being... I vote +1
[15:23] <sinzui> kiko is also a vim user, he will vote -1
[15:23] <gmb> Well, I'm a vim user...
[15:23] <bigjools> haha
[15:23] <sinzui> gmb: you have issues. I don't think we need to bring them up now.
[15:23] <jtv> And I still say what we decide here doesn't matter that much unless we clean up what we already have.
[15:23] <bigjools> abentley: you already voted +1!
[15:23] <gmb> Touche.
[15:24] <bigjools> I prefer to use an editor, not an OS
[15:24]  * bigjools hides
[15:24] <abentley> bigjools: Yes, but the vote was unspecified, so I assumed we were voting for insensitive.
[15:24] <barry> abentley: mootbot is stricter than the florida election committee
[15:24] <allenap> vim is an OS. A DOS-era OS.
[15:24] <intellectronica> aha, i abentley changed his vote that changes the picture
[15:24]  * allenap ducks
[15:24] <barry> well, don't forget asiapac has to weigh in
[15:25] <bigjools> since it's so close, I vote we leave it *random*
[15:25] <barry> bigjools: perfect!
[15:25] <bac> jml, mwh will definitely +1
[15:25] <bigjools> :)
[15:25] <allenap> bigjools: +1, and if it's at least sorted one way or the other, don't change it.
[15:25] <barry> bac: yeah, i think so
[15:25] <barry> #endvote
[15:25] <bigjools> yep, on reflection I think this is a pointless debate
[15:25] <noodles> yap
[15:26] <intellectronica> bigjools: it's not. if we could avoid the editor wars and make a decision it would be good to have a standard on that
[15:26] <jtv> What's already there generally overrules what is decided somewhere, and I don't think this is worth a cleanup effort.
[15:26] <barry> we're about evenly divided anyway.  i'll consult with asiapac and see where we stand, then make an announcement later today
[15:26] <bigjools> intellectronica: in the grand scheme of things, it's not that important IMO
[15:26] <sinzui> If only barry had thought to include his editor's behaviour into PEP8
[15:27]  * barry looks around for the time machine keys
[15:27] <barry> anyway.  that's all i have on my list, so now...
[15:27] <barry> [TOPIC] peanut gallery
[15:27] <MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
[15:27] <MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 7 against. 1 abstained. Total: 1
[15:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery
[15:27] <sinzui> I have a sonic screw driver in my hand roght now
[15:27] <barry> any topics you might have that are not on the agenda?
[15:27] <mars> +1 for Doctor Who references
[15:27] <jtv> sinzui: pour me one too please
[15:27] <intellectronica> did we ever decide how to get new contributors in?
[15:28]  * sinzui really does have a sonic screwdriver
[15:28] <intellectronica> do they do normal reviews?
[15:28] <intellectronica> are we going to put something in place to guide them through the development process, pre-imp-->landing ?
[15:28] <barry> intellectronica: yes, i think so, with a dedicated shepherd to help them through the process.
[15:28] <barry> intellectronica: i will write up a proposal for this
[15:29] <barry> [ACTION] barry to write a proposal about guiding new outside contributors
[15:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to write a proposal about guiding new outside contributors
[15:29] <intellectronica> so the current recommendation, if anyone wants to start working on lp branches is to find a mentor who will guide them through the process?
[15:29] <intellectronica> i think that's a good way to do this
[15:29] <sinzui> I think our current process of hack on code for 3 months, then being mentat training will work fine
[15:29] <bigjools> barry: how much more info than the existing wiki page do you plan on adding?
[15:29] <adeuring> i think if somebody just sends a little bug fix, but clearly says that he sodes not want to get closer invloved, we should not require the regular proceure
[15:29] <adeuring> s/sodes/does/
[15:30] <jtv> Let's not re-use "mentor" here...
[15:30] <intellectronica> sinzui: oh, i'm not talking about becoming reviewers, but about getting branches in
[15:30] <intellectronica> we can worry about that later
[15:30] <barry> sinzui: agreed
[15:30] <sinzui> intellectronica: my bad
[15:30] <barry> bigjools: i don't know i have to review what we've got ;)
[15:30] <bigjools> https://dev.launchpad.net/PatchSubmission
[15:30] <barry> jtv: right, "shepherd" is what i've been using, but maybe not a great term
[15:30] <abentley> What about this policy that we're not supposed to put procedures on the dev wiki?  I think it would make a lot of sense to put all the procedures we can on the dev wiki.
[15:31] <barry> abentley: this is process that directly involves the community now, so definitely dev wiki
[15:31] <intellectronica> i think it would be good to emphasize the importance of getting a mentor before starting the work, but other than that it looks perfect
[15:31] <barry> bigjools: thanks, i'll review that
[15:31] <gmb> Didn't we rip out hte mentorship code for bugs? Shame...
[15:32] <adeuring> how do we know if somebody signed the contributor's agreement?
[15:32] <barry> adeuring: and once they sign it, can they land branches into pqm directly?
[15:33] <intellectronica> we could add everyone who did to a team when they send it
[15:33] <gmb> barry: That would be dangerous.
[15:33] <gmb> potentially, anyway.
[15:33] <barry> gmb: well, signing it is a necessary but not sufficient condition!
[15:33] <adeuring> barry: we're testing via EC2, so I think one of us needs to do that.
[15:34] <gmb> barry: Okay, agreed.
[15:34] <barry> adeuring: meaning, our outside contributors can't run through ec2?  i guess there's the little matter of cost
[15:34] <jtv> barry: just remembered the term I had in mind: "sponsor."
[15:34] <adeuring> barry: yes, that's what I meant
[15:34] <bigjools> make check *cough*
[15:34] <gmb> jtv: +1
[15:34] <noodles> +1 for sponsor
[15:35] <gmb> bigjools: make computer_melt
[15:35] <barry> jtv: nice
[15:35] <bigjools> gmb: speak for yourself!
[15:35] <intellectronica> i think mentor is better because it communicates that you will get help from the person through the entire process
[15:35] <sinzui> adeuring: The CoC code is generic. We just assume it is The ubuntu code co conduct in the UI. We will update the CoC UI to support mutilple signings
[15:36] <intellectronica> i think that's very important because i worry that people will come, out of the blue, with branches they want merged, and will be dissapointed when we have to reject them for whatever reason
[15:36] <barry> let's take further discussions of this to the new public mailing list, and i will take the action item to collect feedback and update wiki pages
[15:37] <barry> intellectronica: we need to triage branches early.  people may submit things we won't ever care about (e.g. convert all lp code to perl :).  we should let them know this early in the process so they don't waste their time
[15:37] <jtv> intellectronica: a sponsor is also supposed to go to bat for you.  But we've already had confusion over this, might as well keep separate terms.
[15:37] <barry> intellectronica: the beauty of course, is that we're free software now
[15:37] <intellectronica> barry: exactly
[15:38] <barry> cool.  7 minutes left.  anything more on this or any other topic?
[15:39] <jtv> ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam
[15:39] <barry> i believe we are done then
[15:39] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:39] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:39.
[15:39] <barry> thanks everyone!
[15:39] <jtv> thanks barry, you evil emacs user!
[15:40] <bac> thanks barry
[15:40] <barry> jtv: i am now doing irc in emacs too :)
[15:40] <intellectronica> thanks barry
[15:40] <jtv> emacs is an os... vim was written by someone who already had a nice one
[15:41] <bigjools> barry: irc in emacs?  you sick puppy!
[15:42] <barry> jtv: what's an os?  oh, it's all that extra crap that slows down emacs?
[15:42] <bigjools> chuckle :)
[15:42] <jtv> barry: sure, blame some other piece of software...  !
[15:43] <barry> jtv: let me count the ways... :)
[15:43] <jtv> barry: at least that extra crap doesn't usually use a pointer's high byte to store lisp bits!
[15:43]  * jtv is enjoying this
[15:43] <barry> jtv: ouch
[15:44] <barry> jtv: what are you, a parenthesist?
[15:44] <jtv> barry: I've got nothing against parentheses...
[15:44] <jtv> ...in reasonable numbers.
[23:28] <jml> lalalala
[23:29] <thumper> jml: tellytubbies
[23:30]  * thumper pictures jml in a yellow fuzz suit
[23:30] <barry> #startmeeting
[23:30] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:30. The chair is barry.
[23:30] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[23:30] <jml> thumper, I was actually singing the Bob Dylan song that features in the Big Lebowski
[23:30] <barry> jml, thumper, mwhudson howdy
[23:30] <jml> barry, hi
[23:30] <thumper> hi
[23:30] <barry> jml: i am loving erc :)
[23:31] <thumper> erc?
[23:31] <barry> emacs irc client
[23:31] <jml> barry, :(
[23:31] <barry> jml: no.  :)
[23:31] <jml> barry, last time I used erc, I accidentally ended up editing other people's nicks.
[23:31] <thumper> heh
[23:31] <barry> ouch
[23:32] <jml> when I wasn't blocked on network io
[23:32] <barry> i hook it up to bip so it's fast
[23:32] <barry> and isn't hampered by canonical's ssl craziness
[23:32] <barry> anyway...
[23:32] <barry> quick update and then topics?
[23:33] <barry> summary from ameu...
[23:33] <barry> deryck graduates
[23:33] <thumper> congrats
[23:33] <barry> i have an action item to start a discussion about sponsoring contributions from the community
[23:33] <barry> and we had a discussion and vote about __all__, etc, sorting, vis case sensitive or insensitive
[23:34] <barry> on the latter, without knowing the results of this morning's vote, what say ye?
[23:34] <jml> slow news week, eh?
[23:34] <barry> yep
[23:34] <jml> barry, I was told insensitive in the past.
[23:34] <jml> barry, and so that's what I've been doing
[23:34] <barry> jml: yes, but what do you /really/ want :)
[23:34] <jml> barry, but I don't have a strong feeling on the matter
[23:35] <jml> barry, as long as it's consistent.
[23:35] <barry> jml: agreed.  we don't currently have consistency
[23:35]  * jml would much rather have from foo import (bar,\nbaz,\n) than ordering.
[23:35] <thumper> +1 on consistency
[23:35] <barry> jml, thumper, mwhudson so if you had to vote, which would it be?
[23:35] <jml> barry, so in that case, I default to everyone else being consistent with what I already do :P
[23:36] <thumper> jml: is this alphabetical case sensitivity of imports?
[23:36] <barry> jml: in __all__'s do you use M-x sort-lines?
[23:36] <jml> but I might change my vote for a barrel of salted pork.
[23:36] <thumper> sorry, barry not jml
[23:36] <jml> thumper, yeah.
[23:36] <barry> thumper: yes
[23:36] <jml> barry, umm... no, I think I manually edit.
[23:36]  * jml votes [A, a, B, b, ...]
[23:36] <barry> jml: ah
[23:36] <thumper> barry: I've not been personally consistent
[23:36] <barry> jml: that's case insensitive then
[23:37] <jml> barry, yes
[23:37] <thumper> barry: not really
[23:37] <thumper> what about [DEF, dab] ?
[23:37] <thumper> capitals first or real insensitive?
[23:37] <jml> thumper, that's case sensitive
[23:37] <jml> thumper, [A, B, ..., a, b, ...]
[23:37] <thumper> [DEF, dab, EFG, eag]
[23:38] <jml> all caps being special?
[23:38] <jml> *gasp*
[23:38] <thumper> possibly?
[23:38] <barry> nothing special about it.  ascii sort
[23:38] <thumper> I'm abstaining because I really don't care
[23:38] <thumper> as long as people are consistent and it is documented
[23:39] <jml> maybe sorting like: sorted(__all__, key=lambda name: sum(map(ord(name))))
[23:39] <barry> ok.  and jml votes for insensitive.  mwhudson is silent :)
[23:39] <jml> barry, what was the public vote?
[23:39] <barry> jml: it was almost exactly tied.  abentley threw it to the supreme court by changing his vote :)
[23:40] <thumper> barry: mwhudson said he had to step away for a few minutes
[23:40]  * mwhudson reappears
[23:40] <jml> barry, so I guess you lean to sensitive sorting because of sort-lines
[23:40] <barry> jml: yeah
[23:40] <thumper> mwhudson: just in tie for a vote on case sensitivity of import orderings :)
[23:40] <jml> I'll give you what you want, if I can change to...
[23:40] <jml> from foo import (
[23:40] <jml>   bar,
[23:40] <thumper> s/tie/time/
[23:40] <jml>   baz,
[23:40] <jml> )
[23:41] <thumper> I vote for jml's one
[23:41] <thumper> less conflicts on merging
[23:41] <mwhudson> thumper: sadly i don't care
[23:41] <barry> jml: you mean, one import per line always?
[23:41] <thumper> barry: yeah baby, yeah!
[23:41] <barry> jml: M-x py-sort-imports :)
[23:42] <mwhudson> tbh
[23:42] <mwhudson> with flymake keeping unnecessary imports out
[23:42] <mwhudson> i just mentally skip over import blocks
[23:42]  * jml agrees
[23:42] <thumper> mwhudson: me too
[23:42] <jml> the whole point is avoiding conflicts, in my mind.
[23:42] <mwhudson> it could be formatted in one line using ; for all i care
[23:42] <thumper> I tend to skip over them in reviews too
[23:43] <mwhudson> so i think i agree with jml then
[23:43] <barry> i've been in import unspaghetti mode today so i can't ignore them.  it's like being hungry when you go food shopping.  all the poptarts and chef boyardee is screaming out to me
[23:43] <barry> i hear you about the conflicts
[23:44] <mwhudson> barry: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/402845 ?
[23:44] <thumper> barry: one import per line - true case insensitive sort
[23:44] <barry> thumper: gotcha
[23:44] <mwhudson> i believe the 'rope' library has support for automatically managing import sections
[23:44] <mwhudson> but i've never got it working
[23:45] <barry> okay, enough with the trivial stuff.  that is all i have for the summary.  what's on y'alls mind these days?
[23:45] <thumper> the code review UI :)
[23:46] <jml> barry, not much of import, but two crazy ideas that someone else might like to take up.
[23:46] <barry> thumper: tell me how you will increase its awesomeness
[23:46] <barry> jml: let's here it
[23:46] <jml> barry, I'd really love to see a graph of 'branches waiting review' over time, and a graph of 'branches approved to land' over time.
[23:46] <thumper> barry: love to, but now is not the time
[23:47] <mwhudson> jml: globally, or for launchpad?
[23:47] <jml> barry, I'd also love to see a distribution chart of time between submitting & landing.
[23:47] <jml> mwhudson, just Launchpad itself.
[23:47] <mwhudson> k
[23:47] <thumper> jml: we have date created, date reviewd, date merged :)
[23:48] <jml> thumper, *nod*
[23:48] <jml> I know it's all possible.
[23:48] <thumper> I'd be nice to have the graphs on LP actually
[23:48] <thumper> for any project
[23:48] <jml> I just haven't had the opportunity to do it, and I've had the idea for months
[23:48]  * thumper thinks about this...
[23:48] <jml> so I'm putting it out there for others :)
[23:49] <jml> that's it.
[23:50] <jml> barry, ^
[23:50] <barry> jml: thanks
[23:50] <barry> it would be cool
[23:50] <barry> mwhudson, thumper anything else?
[23:50] <mwhudson> nope
[23:50] <thumper> nope
[23:50] <barry> #endmeeting
[23:50] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:50.
[23:50] <barry> thank you guys!