[02:46] <RenatoSilva> ok, lp is os. now what?
[02:48] <spiv> RenatoSilva: patches please, kthxbye ;)
[02:48] <dash> now the git and hg users have no excuse
[02:55] <RenatoSilva> spiv: is it easy to set up a local site?
[02:55] <RenatoSilva> spiv: any embedded db?
[02:56] <Snova_> From what I've seen so far, it's largely automated, but it requires Apache and PostgreSQL and doesn't play too nicely with other stuff (particularly on the db).
[02:56] <spiv> #launchpad-dev might be more helpful... I'm not sure if you'd call it "easy" or not, standards vary.  It needs PostgreSQL.
[02:56] <RenatoSilva> dash: for using lp?
[02:58] <RenatoSilva> dash: it would be nice if we could do 1) bzr branch lp:launchpad 2) launchpad/start ---> starts buit-in web + db servers
[02:58] <RenatoSilva> dash: sorry
[02:58] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ^
[02:58] <wgrant> It can never be like that.
[02:59] <RenatoSilva> why
[02:59] <wgrant> But there is a script (rocketfuel-setup, as seen on https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting) that does most of the work for you.
[02:59] <wgrant> Because LP isn't some trivial webapp.
[03:00] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: those steps are just for tests, patches etc
[03:00] <thumper> how do I add a new series to a project now?
[03:00] <wgrant> RenatoSilva: What do you mean?
[03:01] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: I just want to fix a bug. I don't care about performance. It should be easy to get, fix, instantiate and test.
[03:02] <RenatoSilva> wgrant: something like Moin desktop edition: download, extract, click on server.py. It's not an ideal installation, but for testing and bug fixing it's nice
[03:03] <ajmitch> launchpad is a bit bigger than moin
[03:03] <wgrant> Just a bit.
[03:04] <mwhudson> RenatoSilva: bear in mind until yesterday, people who downloaded launchpad to develop on it generally worked full time on launchpad
[03:04] <ajmitch> I'm sure that the current setup will be slimmed down a little over time, but probably not by a lot
[03:04] <mwhudson> it's going to take a while to adapt our processes to casual contribution
[03:05] <ajmitch> launchpad running on sqlite would be an interesting sight
[03:05] <mwhudson> ajmitch: yeah, how is sqlite's replication support?
[03:05]  * mwhudson hides
[03:05] <spm> ajmitch: 'interesting' in the chinese curse sense? :-)
[03:05] <ajmitch> mwhudson: replication? who needs that? :)
[03:06] <ajmitch> spm: I wouldn't want to be touching it
[03:06]  * spm would love to see lp run on access/jet - for evil yuks
[03:06] <ajmitch> ew
[03:06] <RenatoSilva> anyway, do you think that putting launchpad's code in launchpad will improve community collaboration. I mean, before we users just reported bugs, and you guys fixed them. Now we can branch, fix and send patches/merge proposals. Are you expecting this kind of thing? How open are you for this new scenario
[03:07] <thumper> ajmitch: we have some triggers and stuff in the schema that will fail with sqlite
[03:07] <spiv> Yes, patches are definitely welcome.
[03:07] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: very open to it
[03:07] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: launchpads code has been in launchpad for years :)
[03:08] <RenatoSilva> spm: MS access??
[03:08] <ajmitch> thumper: I wasn't expecting it to ever work, there just aren't too many options for a 'desktop edition' :)
[03:08] <thumper> RenatoSilva: patches are welcome but one of the main reasons it was opened was to stop people complaining :)
[03:08] <mwhudson> spm: we'll get to that after i implement VSS imports
[03:08] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: cold be branch before?
[03:08] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: could we
[03:08] <thumper> RenatoSilva: you couldn't, lp devs could
[03:09] <spm> mwhudson: oh sweet! I looks forward to it!
[03:09] <thumper> RenatoSilva: we have private branches on Launchpad
[03:09] <RenatoSilva> thumper: but could we browse the code?
[03:09] <thumper> spm: just get jelmer to write bzr-vss :)
[03:09] <thumper> RenatoSilva: you couldn't, we could
[03:09] <Snova_> What is VSS?
[03:09] <thumper> visual source safe :)
[03:09] <ajmitch> Snova_: evil incarnate
[03:09] <thumper> heh
[03:09] <RenatoSilva> thumper: ok then that's what I mean with putting the code in lp: publicly
[03:10] <spm> thumper: *only* if jelmer promises to rebase it a few times :-P
[03:10] <thumper> RenatoSilva: I think I missed your first point
[03:11] <lifeless> mwhudson: sqlite replication should be pretty easy to hook in
[03:11]  * RenatoSilva is thinking about setting up his environment to download lp and fix bugs he's interested in
[03:11] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: ok then that's what I mean with putting the code in lp: publicly
[03:11] <thumper> RenatoSilva: once you have the environment set up, it is easy to create a new branch and fix a simple bug
[03:12] <thumper> RenatoSilva: it normally takes a new full time dev anywhere from 2 months to 6 months to be fully productive with the source
[03:12] <thumper> RenatoSilva: as a casual person, I expect it will take some time
[03:13] <RenatoSilva> do I need to be fullly productive to fix simple bugs?
[03:13] <RenatoSilva> is it so complex?
[03:13] <spiv> Hopefully not.  Try it and tell us how you go! :)
[03:14] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: its pretty complex, but you could fix shallow bugs quite quickly I suspect
[03:14] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ok
[03:14]  * wgrant agrees with the 'pretty complex' bit.
[03:14] <mwhudson> wgrant: i don't really think that's in any doubt
[03:15] <thumper> RenatoSilva: I'd say very complex
[03:15] <thumper> RenatoSilva: launchpad doesn't have a learning curve as much as a solid wall in front of you :)
[03:15] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: e.g. bug 326129 I expect
[03:16] <thumper> RenatoSilva: hah, you'd be surprised
[03:16] <thumper> RenatoSilva: although that is on my list for this week
[03:17] <RenatoSilva> the info there is a bit confusing, what I see is just what I said there, a non-css rule whose support was removed in ff 3.5
[03:18] <thumper> RenatoSilva: if you look at the bug report, and the styles we use, yes it is confusing
[03:18] <thumper> we are being told "don't use something you're not using"
[03:18] <RenatoSilva> why surprised? simpler or harder that I thought?
[03:18] <thumper> harder than you'd think with TAL
[03:18] <RenatoSilva> TAL?
[03:18] <ajmitch> zope's templating language
[03:19] <RenatoSilva> what does ZPT has to do with lp?
[03:19] <RenatoSilva> what does zope has to do with lp?
[03:20] <ajmitch> because launchpad is built on zope
[03:20] <RenatoSilva> aaaaaaaa!
[03:20] <RenatoSilva> isn't it apache
[03:20] <ajmitch> apache is only a web server
[03:20] <dash> RenatoSilva: you can use both.
[03:20] <RenatoSilva> can zope run under apache?
[03:20] <dash> RenatoSilva: but of course
[03:20] <ajmitch> yes, and usually does
[03:21]  * ajmitch isn't sure how much if any of the zope appserver stuff is used with LP
[03:21] <RenatoSilva> thus I need zope? or lp uses a buit-in customized version?
[03:21] <mwhudson> ajmitch: i think it's still zserver somewhere in there
[03:21] <spiv> Probably more "behind" than "under".
[03:21] <ajmitch> LP has all those zope parts needed, afaik
[03:22] <spiv> RenatoSilva: zope is mainly a (very large) python library, really.
[03:22] <ajmitch> I shouldn't comment too much, I haven't dug around in the source a lot yet
[03:22] <dash> it's several large python libraries.
[03:22] <lifeless> ajmitch: we run apache, and zope's http servers too
[03:22] <RenatoSilva> spiv: so you just reuse code, and lp is not a "zope application", right?
[03:22] <thumper> RenatoSilva: kinda
[03:22] <thumper> RenatoSilva: we don't use the ZODB
[03:22] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: lp is a zope app, its also more than a zope app
[03:23] <thumper> RenatoSilva: but we do use zope traversal
[03:23] <thumper> and publishing
[03:23] <thumper> and security, authentication
[03:23] <thumper> and interfaces
[03:23] <thumper> components
[03:23] <thumper> zcml
[03:23] <thumper> el al
[03:23] <spiv> It relies in fundamental ways on large parts of the zope3 libraries.  So I would describe it as a "zope application".
[03:23] <RenatoSilva> we use Plone/Zope at work, unfortunately.
[03:23] <thumper> et al
[03:23] <thumper> RenatoSilva: zope 3
[03:23] <thumper> yay no acquisition
[03:23] <spiv> RenatoSilva: But, zope3 is a rather different beast to zope 3 / plone.
[03:23] <ajmitch> plone is a bit different, given its mix of zope 2 & 3
[03:23] <spiv> Er,
[03:23] <spiv> "to zope *2*", I meant :)
[03:23] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: zope 3 is a totally different beast to zope2
[03:24] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: it is a zope app? can I set up _my_ zope server? and just install a lp product?
[03:24] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: you're thinking zope2
[03:24] <spiv> RenatoSilva: "products" are a zope2-ism.
[03:24] <lifeless> zope3 doesn't work like that
[03:25] <spiv> RenatoSilva: If I were you, I'd try to forget how zope2 installs work and just think of zope3 as another library that Launchpad has a dependency on.
[03:26] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: how does it work?
[03:27] <RenatoSilva> s/product/bunch of code which will only work inside an instance of the underlying application server
[03:28] <spiv> RenatoSilva: perhaps grab the source and look at what "make run" does?
[03:28] <RenatoSilva> spiv: then lp is _not_ a zope application right? apllication in the sense of what I mentioned above ^
[03:28] <spiv> It's an application built on zope3.
[03:28] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: its not a 'zope 2 application'
[03:28] <lifeless> RenatoSilva: it is a 'zope 3 application'
[03:29] <lifeless> :)
[03:29] <spiv> It's not a thing you can use via zope 2's web admin interface.
[03:29] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: but it does not need a zope 3 instance, right?
[03:29] <wgrant> How about it be called a Zope Toolkit application? That name was introduced to attempt to avoid this confusion.
[03:29] <spiv> RenatoSilva: as opposed to a django instance?
[03:30] <RenatoSilva> spiv: zope 3 became a framework?
[03:30] <spiv> Yes, more or less.
[03:31] <RenatoSilva> ok I see
[03:31] <RenatoSilva> weird!
[03:32] <spiv> Zope 3 still has a very strong component-architecture flavour, it has lots of features in support of writing modular components, so you can in principle easily take various libraries/apps/whatevers written for zope 3 and glue them together nicely without excessive effort.
[03:33] <RenatoSilva> we use plone at work because it is 'secure', like all the other software is not, and you can be an idiot and it is still secure...
[03:33] <spiv> Plone is very mature, that's true.
[03:34] <ajmitch> if you're somewhat familiar with templating in plone, it's TAL
[03:35] <RenatoSilva> but is very ugly, had to set up, hard to maintain, user-unfriendly etc etc etc..
[03:35] <spiv> RenatoSilva: Right, it's very mature ;)
[03:35] <RenatoSilva> ajmitch: I know TAL, I like it (iirc!)
[03:36] <ajmitch> oh good :)
[03:36] <RenatoSilva> I like the crazy way ZPT works, using slots etc...
[03:37] <RenatoSilva> it's the only nice part of zope/plone in my opinion...
[03:38] <RenatoSilva> ajmitch: it is nice to set up a template having built-in sample data, you can have a real view of a template offline, that's nice
[03:39] <ajmitch> yeah, I've had the pleasure of using plone myself
[03:39] <ajmitch> if you can call it that
[03:41]  * thumper is reminded of ChrisW's talk "why plone sucks"
[03:43] <Snova_> How would I request to delete an LP project? answers.launchpad.net/launchpad ?
[03:44] <thumper> yes
[03:48] <RenatoSilva> ajmitch: hehehe
[03:48] <RenatoSilva> thumper: why plone sucks? where's it? I'd love to show this to my boss :)
[03:49] <thumper> RenatoSilva: perhaps his website has it simplistix.co.uk
[03:49] <RenatoSilva> who's he
[03:49] <thumper> RenatoSilva: just some zope guy I worked with for a while
[03:49] <RenatoSilva> Python Package Management Sucks ---> hahaha
[03:49] <thumper> RenatoSilva: he makes a living on zope and plone :)
[03:50] <mwhudson> thumper: i think he called that talk "how plone rocks my world" in the end
[03:51] <thumper> mwhudson: ah, ok
[03:52] <RenatoSilva> hum like plone sucks but I love it
[03:53] <thumper> RenatoSilva: I don't think he loves it :)
[03:53] <RenatoSilva> well he says it rocks his world...is it a joke
[03:53] <thumper> yes
[03:53] <thumper> sarcasm
[03:53] <RenatoSilva> oh
[03:53]  * RenatoSilva hahahaha
[03:53] <thumper> you have to know Chris :)
[03:54] <mwhudson> chris complains about _everything_
[03:54] <thumper> and _everyone_
[03:54] <RenatoSilva> by hating plone like me...hum  he seems a nice guy :)
[03:56] <RenatoSilva> Plone: tThe hell in which I live my life from day to day”
[03:56] <RenatoSilva> hahahah
[03:57] <RenatoSilva> What's wrong with plone? It sucks! hahahaha
[04:00] <RenatoSilva> ok but coming back to beginning, lp is open source, now what? I mean...
[04:00] <RenatoSilva> what is lp good for? just another sofware community site?
[04:01] <RenatoSilva> why would I use it inside a company too
[04:01] <spiv> It's for what it's always been for.
[04:01] <RenatoSilva> not so many users, I don't see much sense
[04:01] <dash> well, what was it good for previously?-)
[04:01] <spiv> (Obviously someone could take the source and make it good for something else, though)
[04:02] <RenatoSilva> I mean, isn't lp sort of singleton?
[04:03] <thumper> RenatoSilva: as in, the one true launchpad? yes, and so it really should stay
[04:03] <spiv> A large part of what makes lp useful is having lots of projects all on the same site, so that reassigning bugs etc is easier.
[04:03] <thumper> RenatoSilva: we didn't open the code to get everyone to run their own
[04:03] <thumper> RenatoSilva: the release notes say this, I'm sure
[04:03] <spiv> But there's lots of useful code in the launchpad source, some of it could quite possibly be useful for completely different projects.
[04:04] <spiv> And some motivated users might even be kind enough to volunteer some bug fixes and other patches for us, if we're lucky :)
[04:05] <RenatoSilva> lp is for enabling a dev community to work nice, using bug tracker, answers, code repo and translations. I don't see much sense of creating a lp site on my company. Outside a company either, why not use lp.net...
[04:06] <ajmitch> I think most people would agree with you, that launchpad.net should be used unless there's some pressing need to keep things in-house
[04:07] <RenatoSilva> but what was your intention? was lp opened just for receiving contributions, or for people using lp instances on their own (which I don't see much sense)
[04:07] <spiv> Right.  Opening the source wasn't done because we thought the world had a burning need to run lots of little in-house instances...
[04:08] <RenatoSilva> ok
[04:08] <spiv> It was opened to, well, share the source.
[04:08] <RenatoSilva> that's what I thought...
[04:09] <spiv> Which makes contributions possible, yes, but also makes it possible for people to reuse our code in ways we haven't thought of.
[04:09] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ok but there's not much sense on setting-up a self site don't you think...If I'd do so it would be only for the bug tracker...
[04:10] <RenatoSilva> unfortunately lp doesn't hve a task manager
[04:10] <spiv> RenatoSilva: well, I personally don't have much use for my own personal Launchpad, but I can't speak for the other 6 billion people on the planet :)
[04:10] <RenatoSilva> neither me :)
[04:10] <spiv> If you think there's not much sense in you setting one up, you're probably right :)
[04:12] <RenatoSilva> if lp had task management, I could think of replacing our sucking dotProject :)
[04:12] <spiv> I certainly hope that some parts of Launchpad do get reused by other people.  Off the top of my head I know I'm happy that I can point to an example of using twisted.conch for a non-trivial server :)
[04:13] <spiv> Which should be helpful for people that are trying to learn how to use that part of Twisted.
[04:15] <SamB> also it reduces the flak directed at canonical for having it closed-source ;-)
[04:17] <lifeless> SamB: it doesn't, but I don't think that was a determining factor; lp was successful before we announced a time for opensourcing it :)
[04:20] <RenatoSilva> lifeless: whta do you, will people criticize canonical for _open-sourcing_ lp? o.O
[04:21] <RenatoSilva> * what do you mean
[04:56] <spm> spiv: I could certainly have used something LP like at $job-1, not so much my specific team, but the rest of the Apps Dev's sure could have. But even then it would be total overkill. too heavy; too many major unused (soyuz, translations) or missing features - dead set easy for non technical folks to follow their bugs reports; Project Management etc.
[05:02] <mwhudson> bug 337494
[05:15] <poolie> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mbp is timing out...
[05:15] <poolie> it wasn't the other day
[05:16] <poolie> on i guess counting my branches
[05:16] <mwhudson> poolie: probably finding which teams you're in that have branches
[05:16] <mwhudson> poolie: got an oops id?
[05:16] <poolie> yeah
[05:16] <poolie> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1299EB89
[05:16] <poolie> not necessarily a big deal
[05:16] <mwhudson> i'm reviewing thumper's fix for this right now
[05:16] <poolie> though i do actually use that page
[05:16] <poolie> \o/
[05:29]  * RenatoSilva gtg, thanks everybody
[06:39] <Louie`> If I want to give a specific user permissions to my project at launchpad, do I have to create a group for me and him/them first?
[06:39] <Louie`> I can't find where a add them to the project.
[06:54] <jml> Louie`, yes, you have to make a team
[06:55] <Louie`> Okay, good :)
[06:55] <jml> Louie`, in general, the way Launchpad does access control is through teams
[07:01] <Louie`> jml: thank you jml, I just added my team as Drivers for the project.
[07:02] <Louie`> is there any permission panel for the team on my project. So team1 can do 123 but team2 can only do 23
[07:03] <jml> I'm afraid not.
[07:03] <jml> well... other than the 'driver', 'maintainer' thing.
[07:03] <jml> and there are other controls on the pages of the various applications (Bugs, Translations, etc.)
[07:04] <Azag> hi
[07:04]  * jml guesses EdwinGrubbs isn't actually around
[07:04] <jml> Azag, hello
[07:04] <Azag> hi jml
[07:04] <Azag> I have register my first launchpad project
[07:05] <Azag> but I am having some problems with bazaar
[07:05] <Azag> :S
[07:05] <Azag> how I do to add other person to commit?
[07:06] <Louie`> haha, the same as me
[07:06] <Louie`> Azag: you need to create a group :)
[07:06] <Louie`> jml:  thanks again.
[07:06] <jml> Louie`, no problems :)
[07:07] <Azag> I have create a group
[07:07] <jml> Azag, you need to create a team, and change the branch so that the team owns the branch.
[07:07] <Azag> a
[07:07] <Azag> ok
[07:07] <jml> Azag, then, the other person who wants to write to the branch needs to be a member of the team.
[07:07] <Azag> thnx!
[07:08] <Louie`> Oh, on branch level, thats nice.
[07:08] <Louie`> more then I knew.
[07:09] <Louie`> I just thought Maintainer, Driver on everything in the project.
[07:17] <jml> no
[07:17] <jml> Louie`, I was going to say, in answer to your earlier question, that permissions are generally set on the actual things you are interested in, for the most part.
[07:18] <jml> rather than in a central control panel.
[07:18] <jml> although arguably it should be both.
[07:20] <Louie`> Okay, thanks jml!
[07:20] <Louie`> Time for work. Have a nice day guys.
[07:38] <marioxcc> hello all
[07:38] <marioxcc> when i try to push
[07:38] <marioxcc> i get this error message
[07:38] <marioxcc> bzr: ERROR: Generic bzr smart protocol error: <ProtocolError for xmlrpc.lp.internal:8097/branchfilesystem: -1 >
[07:40] <marioxcc> ¿why?
[07:47] <spiv> jml: ^
[07:53] <jml> spiv, sorry, I missed it.
[07:53] <jml> spiv, IRC proxy confusion.
[07:54] <jml> spiv, what's the issue?
[08:05] <spiv> jml: 16:38 < marioxcc> bzr: ERROR: Generic bzr smart protocol error: <ProtocolError for xmlrpc.lp.internal:8097/branchfilesystem: -1 >
[08:05] <jml> ahh, I see.
[08:05] <jml> it's unusual not to get an OOPS code in circumstances like that.
[08:49] <thisfred> hi, I have a translations question, from this link https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/trunk/+pots/ubuntuone-client/ there seems to be no way for a user to start adding suggestions for a new translation,
[08:50] <thisfred> yet if I deviously guess at the url for a language that isn't there yet, it seems to work. Shouldn't there be a way to navigate there then? I remember that's how it used to work...
[09:32] <davidfraser> Fantastic news about open sourcing launchpad :-)
[09:32] <davidfraser> Note that there are links from the Python style guide to URLs like https://launchpad.canonical.com/DatetimeUsageGuide which are not accessible (This wiki is now closed. Please move private material to wiki.canonical.com/launchpad/ and public material to dev.launchpad.net)
[09:33] <davidfraser> barry: I edited the Python style guide to add an extra comma to the function definition wrapping example at the end, hope that's OK...
[11:48] <dpm> jtv, henninge -> [09:49] <thisfred> hi, I have a translations question, from this link https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/trunk/+pots/ubuntuone-client/ there seems to be no way for a user to start adding suggestions for a new translation,
[11:48] <dpm>  yet if I deviously guess at the url for a language that isn't there yet, it seems to work. Shouldn't there be a way to navigate there then? I remember that's how it used to work...
[11:48] <jtv> dpm: did the user set preferred languages to include the target language?
[11:49] <henninge> dpm: The assumption is that whoever can translate to a certain language has set that language as a preferred language.
[11:49] <henninge> dpm: Then it will show up by itself.
[11:49] <thisfred> henninge: jtv, thanks, I'll add that to the question, and confirm that they hadn't set it
[11:50] <jtv> thisfred: we do have some guessing logic IIRC, but obviously setting the right languages is better.
[11:50] <dpm> jtv, henninge, I did not talk to the user directly, thisfred did. But in any case, I can confirm this, I mean my preferred language is Catalan, and I see the complete list of templates there -> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/trunk/+pots/ubuntuone-client/
[11:51] <dpm> if there wasn't a Catalan translation already, I wouldn't know how to start one right now
[11:51] <jtv> dpm: there's no Lao translation, and yet Lao shows up in the list for me.
[11:51] <dpm> jtv: oh, I see what you mean, ok
[11:51] <jtv> Or Khmer, Latin, or Bokmål
[11:51] <dpm> yep, that solves the question
[11:52] <henninge> dpm, jtv: I see Esperanto, untranslated.
[11:52] <thisfred> ok, thanks for helping evenryone! :)
[11:52] <henninge> dpm: I have set Esperanto as a preferred language.
[11:52] <jtv> "If you want something from us, you've got to tell us!"
[11:52] <henninge> dpm: I can click on Esperanto and start translating.
[11:52] <dpm> henninge: yes, yes, I understand it now, thanks!
[11:52] <henninge> oh
[11:53] <jtv> thisfred: one of our many UI plans involved pushing users harder towards setting their languages.  Hope that'll help with this sort of thing.
[11:53] <henninge> dpm: oh, then I misread your last comment ;-)
[11:53] <dpm> henninge: np, I prefer additional info rather than none :-)
[11:53] <henninge> jtv: you know Bokmål?
[11:53]  * jtv moves out to the balcony.  Much too hot, despite the eclipse (which I slept through anyway)
[11:54] <henninge> dpm: I didn't read jtv's answer while I was typing .. ;-)
[11:54] <jtv> henninge: no, I can decipher bits of those languages
[11:55]  * henninge should add French, Danish and Spanish, then.
[11:55] <jtv> Meanwhile poor เก๋ is out at the Erawan hotel waiting for the Liverpool players.
[11:55] <henninge> I assume that is Kay in Thai?
[11:55] <jtv> henninge: it's also that I like to keep an eye on a lot of languages that I'm either interested in or an at least recognize a bit of, just as a sanity check.
[11:55] <jtv> henninge: yes
[11:56] <jtv> เ = ay, ก = K, ๋  = rising tone (for syllables starting with middle-class consonants such as ก)
[11:56] <henninge> oh, it's rtl?
[11:57] <jtv> henninge: no, but some vowels come to the left of the consonant (cluster)s they follow.
[11:57] <henninge> jtv: oh right, you had explained that before.
[11:58] <jtv> henninge: it makes the combined vowels nicer: เกา เกีย เกือ
[11:58] <jtv> Easy to remember: the subscript vowels don't combine—กุ กู
[11:59] <henninge> jtv: right ... ;-)
[11:59] <henninge> "Happy End für Launchpads Befreiung"
[11:59] <henninge> Linux Magazin Headline
[11:59] <jtv> henninge: weird way to phrase it...
[12:00] <henninge> yes, what I thought.
[12:00] <jtv> Why not "endlich bereit, Launchpad befreit!" or somesuch?  I mean, this _is_ the Befreiung.
[12:23] <geser> a question about LP API: are the results of archive.getPublishedSources() sorted? newest first?
[12:27] <jtv> geser: hang on, I'll see if I can get someone who knows.
[12:29] <jtv> geser: actually, it's pretty obvious: sorted by source package name.
[12:30] <jtv> geser: after that, by age of source package publishing history entry, newest first.
[12:30] <jtv> geser: wouldn't rely on that much detail though unless you really need it :)
[12:30] <geser> jtv: ok, thanks
[12:30] <jtv> np
[12:32] <geser> jtv: I'm thinking it it would be possible to replace a call to rmadison to check the current version of a package in Debian with using LP API and distribution['debian'] but as all packages there have status 'Pending' I can't filter on status = 'Published'
[12:33] <jtv> geser: you're talking to someone who works on very different parts of the code, but bigjools may be able to help.
[12:33] <jtv> or al-maisan.
[12:33] <al-maisan> just a minute..
[12:34]  * al-maisan is on a call
[12:36] <bigjools> geser: let me check that out for you
[12:37] <bigjools> geser: you can use status="Pending"
[12:38] <geser> and the first result will the most recent one?
[12:38] <bigjools> geser: yes
[12:39] <geser> thanks
[12:39] <bigjools> welcome
[12:41] <geser> bigjools: is the debian distribution updated regularly? i.e. is using it as relyable as using rmadison?
[12:41] <bigjools> geser: yes, the imports run twice a day
[12:47] <simon-o> hi, where do I find the Launchpad Buildd Admins?
[12:47] <bigjools> simon-o: I can help, what's up?
[12:48] <simon-o> bigjools: I received an email about a failed build. But I'm not sure what to do about it.
[12:48] <simon-o>  * Build Log: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/advi/1.6.0-14/+build/1125569/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-powerpc.advi_1.6.0-14_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[12:48] <bigjools> let me check it
[12:49] <bigjools> hevea: Depends: ocaml-base-nox-3.11.0 but it is not installable
[12:51] <geser> ocaml FTBFS due a texlive breakage
[12:51] <geser> but I don't know if it's fixed (on PPC)
[12:51] <bigjools> simon-o: do you need the powerpc build?  if not, ignore it, else wait for the ocaml build to be fixed then retry yours
[12:52] <simon-o> bigjools: No, I don't need it. I just wanted to make sure, that no action from me is required :)
[12:52] <simon-o> thanks
[12:52] <simon-o> How do I retry the build?
[12:53] <bigjools> there will be a link on the build's page
[12:53] <simon-o> bigjools: ok. thanks
[12:53] <bigjools> np
[14:48] <bochecha> hi
[14:50] <bochecha> I'd like to report bug / participate in mailing lists for a project hosted at launchpad.net, and before I open an account in Launchpad, I wanted to know one thing: Launchpad can act as an OpenID provider but can I log in using my own OpenId provider ?
[14:50] <bochecha> that would allow me to log in wothout opening yet another account on yet another webapp :)
[14:51] <Ursinha> bochecha, no, launchpad is a openid provider, but not consumer
[14:52] <bochecha> Ursinha, any plans for it in the near future ?
[14:53] <Ursinha> not that I'm aware of :)
[14:53] <bochecha> ok, I'll open an account then, just wanted to be sure :)
[14:53] <bochecha> thanks
[14:53] <Ursinha> bochecha, no problem!
[14:53] <bochecha> and btw, kudos to the launchpad team for finally opening it! :)
[14:56] <kiko> bochecha, we do indeed have plans to become a consumer
[14:56] <kiko> it is part of our openid plan
[14:56] <Ursinha> kiko, but in the near future?
[14:57] <cperrin88> Hey, I'm wondering how long it takes to get a review for my translation file
[14:57] <cperrin88> I don't want to be impatient of course
[14:57] <cperrin88> I'm just wondering
[14:58] <henninge> cperrin88: a template ?
[14:58] <cperrin88> yes
[14:58] <kiko> cperrin88, it's usually within a few hours -- henninge does the CHR still do that?
[14:58] <henninge> kiko: never did, we do that.
[14:59] <kiko> henninge, right, I meant s/still/already because I know there are plans afoot
[14:59] <henninge> kiko: yes but it is quite complex
[14:59] <henninge> cperrin88: which project?
[14:59] <cperrin88> pycobo
[15:01] <henninge> cperrin88: did you already upload something?
[15:01] <cperrin88> yeah
[15:01] <cperrin88> https://translations.launchpad.net/pycobo/trunk/+imports
[15:02] <cperrin88> should I mention that I'm using edge?
[15:03] <henninge> cperrin88: no
[15:04] <henninge> cperrin88: you should be uploadeing the "en" file as the template (*.pot)
[15:05] <henninge> cperrin88: also it should be clear what translation domain you are using, I guess it is not "django" because usually it is more like the name of the project.
[15:05] <cperrin88> I can't change taht
[15:05] <cperrin88> I'ts generated automatically
[15:05] <cperrin88> by django
[15:05] <cperrin88> well
[15:05] <cperrin88> at least I don't know how
[15:07] <henninge> cperrin88: usually these things can be configured or you can write a little script to do the renaming.
[15:07] <cperrin88> hmmm
[15:07] <cperrin88> okay
[15:07] <cperrin88> but what are these pot files?
[15:07] <cperrin88> I'm pretty new to this
[15:07] <henninge> cperrin88: RTFM
[15:08] <cperrin88> sorry
[15:08] <henninge> cperrin88: they are the English strings that you want to have translated.
[15:08] <henninge> cperrin88: so the "template" that translators fill in with their language.
[15:09] <henninge> cperrin88: Make sure you read https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject
[15:09] <cperrin88> ah
[15:09] <cperrin88> okay
[15:09] <cperrin88> so it's a normal po file with english words, right?
[15:11] <henninge> cperrin88: as the msgid entries, yes.
[15:11] <cperrin88> okay, thank you :)
[15:11] <henninge> cperrin88: as I said, the English file in the queue has the right format for a pot, it just needs to be named correctly.
[15:12] <henninge> cperrin88: I recommend "pycobo.pot" and "de.po", both in the *same* directory.
[15:16] <henninge> cperrin88: one more thing
[15:16] <cperrin88> yes?
[15:17] <henninge> cperrin88: in the German translation you use HTML entities for the Umlaute.
[15:17] <cperrin88> yes
[15:17] <henninge> cperrin88: but the header says its UTF-8
[15:17] <henninge> cperrin88: so you should use plain äöüÄÖÜß
[15:18] <cperrin88> but it's for a webpage
[15:18] <cperrin88> umlaute should be coded as html entities
[15:18] <henninge> cperrin88: well, but the right Content-type header on the web page.
[15:18] <henninge> cperrin88: no, that is an old rule.
[15:19] <henninge> cperrin88: new rule says: Specify the charset in the header.
[15:19] <henninge> ;-)
[15:19] <henninge> cperrin88: and utf-8 works fine
[15:19] <cperrin88> Okay
[15:19] <cperrin88> the only problem was django
[15:21] <cperrin88> when I tried to compile umlauts it said that there was an invalid multibyte squence
[15:27] <kiko> Ursinha, not real near future, but still
[15:27] <kiko> it's planned
[16:12] <Ddorda> hello. i just came to report that "there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server."
[16:13] <bigjools> Ddorda: is it persisting like that?  what URL?
[16:14] <Ddorda> bigjools: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-drupal-planet-devs/ubuntu-drupal-planet/6.x/revision/1
[16:14] <Ddorda> working
[16:14] <bigjools> ok, it was transient
[16:16] <Ddorda> i tried few times, but only now it worked. i hate Murphy?
[16:16] <bigjools> yeah :)
[16:17] <Ddorda> well, thanks and goodbye
[18:58] <Azag> hi
[19:00] <Azag> is normal that every time I branch, It make me a folder in the program folder name devel?
[20:31] <leonel> hello ..  Is there a way to know how many downloads from my ppa  packages  have been  ??
[20:47] <geser> leonel: bug 139855
[20:50] <ahz> Where is a good place to find translators for my project?
[21:32] <CarlFK> is there a way to search PPAs?
[21:33] <beuno> CarlFK, yes
[21:33] <CarlFK> http://ppa-search.appspot.com/search?search_key_word=kdenlive  close, but dosn't show me the versions, and so far they are all old
[21:33] <beuno> let me get that link for you
[21:33] <beuno> CarlFK, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[21:33] <beuno> ha
[21:34] <beuno> kiko, bigjools, cprov, ^
[21:34] <beuno> there's an external PPA search
[21:34] <kiko> yeah, I think I saw this a while back
[21:35] <CarlFK> kinda the same problem, but more usable, so good.
[21:36] <CarlFK> and I found kdenlive 0.7.5 quicker, so also good :)
[21:39] <cprov> CarlFK: note that you can also search for 'kdenlive' in ubuntu, then find the relevant PPA versions on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenlive
[21:41] <CarlFK> cprov: neat - thanks
[21:55] <sinzui> barry: ping
[22:00] <fta> james_w, 1st complaint against -daily builds: http://identi.ca/notice/6844689 :P (at least 1st that i receive directly)
[22:01] <james_w> heh
[22:02] <fta> could be worse, one could do openoffice and gcc ;)
[22:06] <ahz> Is there a place I can find volunteers to translate my project?  (I have 25 languages and mostly just need small updates before each release.)
[22:20] <SamB> ahz: I would suggest checking with your users
[22:21] <ahz> SamB: I've contacted some former translators, but some do not respond
[22:22] <SamB> dunno what to say
[22:22] <SamB> do you actually have users using all of those translations?
[22:24] <ahz> SamB: I think so based on web logs and update logs.  I only review the top 10-15 translations anyway
[22:25] <SamB> well, I'd suggest using whatever mechanisms you usually use to communicate with your users ;-)
[22:26] <ahz> Another way of putting it: there are things Launchpad itself could do
[22:26] <ahz> 1. Add a system where translators could subscribe to translations, so they know when new strings are added (and maybe even the deadline for release)
[22:27] <ahz> 2. Add a "help wanted" section where project leaders could solicit volunteers
[22:32] <ahz> Can I request these launchpad features here https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad ?
[22:32] <thumper> ahz: sure
[22:33] <thekorn> beuno, the screenshot of the new project overview page is looking great,
[22:33] <thekorn> but this green download buttons are looking strange
[22:33] <thekorn> they somehow remind me on sourceforge ;)
[22:36] <thumper> is there a way to actually remove a bugtask from a bug?
[22:38] <matsubara> thumper, no
[22:39] <thumper> :(
[22:39] <matsubara> thumper, unless you're considering SQL surgery :-)
[22:39] <thumper> matsubara: I'm not
[22:40] <matsubara> thumper, bug 1342
[22:40] <thumper> matsubara: ta
[22:56] <cprov> nick cprov-afk
[23:02] <barry> sinzui: delayed pong.  i still haven't gotten this new irc client to scream at me yet
[23:06] <kiko> here we go
[23:06] <barry> kiko: make it so!
[23:06] <kiko> mthaddon, keep us posted ;-)
[23:10] <mthaddon> kiko: will do (but head down at the moment)
[23:10] <kiko> sure thing
[23:11] <fta> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~chromium-team/chromium-browser/chromium-browser.head": OOPS-1299EA671
[23:11] <fta> what is that?
[23:11] <fta> it
[23:11] <kiko> fta, quite possibly it is a symptom of launchpad being upgraded :-)
[23:11] <fta> oh
[23:24] <mthaddon> kiko: DB updates applied - restarting services (another short outage now)
[23:24] <kiko> mthaddon, how smooth is smooth? :-)
[23:24] <mthaddon> kiko: I'll let you know once it's all done :)
[23:26] <kiko> launchpad is all apologies right now ;-)
[23:26] <rowinggolfer> kiko - they were better when they were closed source ;)
[23:26]  * beuno is reminded he needs to fix that page
[23:27] <kiko> mthaddon, I'm surprised. was login.launchpad.net supposed to be down right now?
[23:27] <kiko> I can't log in to ubuntu one either (of course)
[23:27] <mthaddon> kiko: see #launchpad-code
[23:28] <mthaddon> kiko: yes, while we restart the services
[23:28] <kiko> mthaddon, hmmm, I need to understand why later
[23:38] <slooper> is launchpad down at the moment?
[23:38] <bdmurray> Should the api work when Launchpad is read-only?
[23:38] <rowinggolfer> slooper - see topic
[23:38] <slooper> sorry, I don't know UTC time
[23:39] <nellery> slooper: you can enter date -u into terminal to get current UTC time
[23:39] <slooper> I assume that's until the end of this hour
[23:39] <slooper> I will wait patiently... thx!
[23:40] <slooper> nellery: alas, I'm on a windows box and Bill Gates has forbidden terminal
[23:41] <spm> slooper: yeah it
[23:41] <spm> s down. the update has gone sour on a critical component
[23:52] <mwhudson> fta: when you got "<fta> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~chromium-team/chromium-browser/chromium-browser.head": OOPS-1299EA671" as an error
[23:52] <mwhudson> fta: what were you doing?