rickspencer3_well, guess it's time to meet?00:00
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: TheMuso?00:00
TheMusoHey rickspencer3_.00:00
rickspencer3_so it seemed like it worked well last week, when we only covered highlights?00:01
rickspencer3_do either of you have agenda items?00:01
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: ?00:01
rickspencer3_alrighty, then00:01
rickspencer3_in terms of action items from last week ...00:02
rickspencer3_ACTION: TheMuso to test accessibility of empathy built with webkit00:02
* TheMuso tested empathy00:02
TheMusoI think I documented it in my activity report.00:02
* TheMuso checks.00:02
TheMusoYes, I did.00:02
rickspencer3_TheMuso: you mentioned a couple of bugs, yes00:03
rickspencer3_but are you concerned about moving to empathy in Karmic?00:03
rickspencer3_do you feel that the issues can be reasonably addressed, or do you see a significant risk00:03
TheMusoTO elaborate, the dialogs and menus are fine, but the contact list is not properly read. The only way to get contact list items read is to open chat windows for each of them, and close the window again.00:03
TheMusoOnline status combo was not readable properly.00:03
=== asac__ is now known as asac
rickspencer3_is this a regression for pidgin?00:04
TheMusoAs far as my knowledge of the architecture goes, I think they can be addressed, but they may end up being bugs in webkit.00:04
TheMusoYes this regresses from the accessible use of pidgin.00:04
TheMusoIt also doesn't help that as far as I have checked, there is no expanded orca support for empathy.00:04
rickspencer3_I would like to see release blocking bugs for this00:04
rickspencer3_so that if they are not fixed by, say, beta, we pull empathy and switch back to pidgin00:04
rickspencer3_we should discuss with the rest of the team, but this seems reasonable to me00:05
TheMusome to.00:05
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: ?00:05
robert_ancellI agree we should block on these issues00:06
robert_ancellIf we make enough noise people will hopefully step up and fix them00:06
rickspencer3_ACTION: TheMuso to target bugs for empathy accessibility to karmic, and to set to appropriate milestone (beta)00:06
rickspencer3_ok, thanks00:06
rickspencer3_thanks TheMuso00:06
rickspencer3_an announcement ...00:06
rickspencer3_I've arrange for a $50 subsidy us per canonical desktopper so that you can00:07
rickspencer3_expense some bluetooth device ...00:07
rickspencer3_provided that you agree to get it working in Karmic :)00:07
* TheMuso already has bluetooth hardware that works,.00:07
rickspencer3_this is to encourage wider testing of BT00:07
rickspencer3_TheMuso: great news ... perhaps there is something else that may not work?00:07
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: maybe it's time for you to get a mic - :)00:07
TheMusoWell if there is, I can't think of it. I have the two common use cases being a phone and a headset.00:08
robert_ancellrickspencer3_, I read that before and I will get a mic now :)00:08
rickspencer3_TheMuso: sounds good00:08
TheMusoThe only thing that would be useful is DUn/teathering, which is an app issue.00:08
rickspencer3_missing from the wiki is the discussion of making room on the CD00:09
rickspencer3_looks like long term we are going to run out of room00:09
rickspencer3_as we make room for new features from OLS and others, especially00:09
rickspencer3_the games package was mentioned, as well as Gimp (by me)00:09
robert_ancellI am proposing to reduce the number of games by default00:09
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: yes, perhaps just the two or three that take up the least room ;)00:10
TheMusoThere are a lot of packages that ship wav files for sounds. I should look into how they play their sounds, and see if we can't compress them to ogg.00:10
robert_ancellNot reducing that much!! :)00:10
rickspencer3_well, 1 meg is a significant savings at this point00:10
rickspencer3_lastly, Till has made some progress regarding some printing related issues, also not on the wiki yet00:11
robert_ancellThe games are about 50M decompressed, I'd expect we can halve that00:11
rickspencer3_not sure that impacts either of you00:12
rickspencer3_50 megs!00:12
rickspencer3_decompressed, I read "compressed"00:12
robert_ancell25M compressed (i.e. as .debs)00:12
* TheMuso hardly prints as it is.00:12
asac(TheMuso: dun works in blueman ... though in the end it should work directly in NM/connman yes.)00:12
rickspencer3_in terms of saving space, I'd like to get a little bit systematic about finding targets of opportunity00:12
TheMusosound files is one, as I said.00:13
robert_ancellI bought a printer the other week and it works great for me00:13
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: you have Till to thank for that00:13
rickspencer3_tkamppeter, his is impressive indeed00:13
rickspencer3_that's it00:14
rickspencer3_any other business?00:14
robert_ancellI'm thinking of attending Linux.conf.au, proposals close this week00:14
TheMusonothing from me.00:14
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: sounds good , but ...00:15
rickspencer3_we general have time off for one conference per year (other than UDS of course ;) )00:15
rickspencer3_same with supporting travel, etc...00:15
rickspencer3_we should discuss in our next call, though00:15
robert_ancellsure, will do00:15
rickspencer3_as we can make exceptions for important things00:15
rickspencer3_so that's it for the meeting, you guys can get back to your coffee machines ;)00:16
TheMusothere is about 2.6MB of wav files in usr/share/sounds.00:16
TheMusoMy coffee is a walk of a morning. :)00:17
rickspencer3_TheMuso: you are too healthy00:17
TheMusoSo if we can get that down somewhat, that would be good.00:17
rickspencer3_my coffee is coffee00:17
rickspencer3_TheMuso: right, plus ogg is open goodness00:17
rickspencer3_in terms of fitting onto the CD, I'd like to see a bit of a system for figuring it out:00:18
rickspencer3_1. estimate how much space will we need00:18
rickspencer3_2. a list of things that can be done to save space00:18
TheMusoIt all comes down to whether the app needing the sounds can play ogg somehow./00:18
robert_ancellIs there a summary of what is on the CD?  I was looking for a package list and even finding that is hard00:19
rickspencer3_3. a decision making process to determine which items from #2 to do00:19
TheMusoThe seeds are the best place to look./00:19
rickspencer3_robert_ancell: I think this is hard00:19
rickspencer3_right, you have to look at the seeds00:19
robert_ancellTheMuso, I've looked at the seeds but I really want the output of the seeds00:19
rickspencer3_I think we can brainstorm the items for #200:19
TheMusolp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.karmic and lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.karmic00:19
* rickspencer3_ goes back to updating tutorial for quickly00:20
robert_ancellTheMuso, yes but how do I convert those into which packages get pulled in?00:20
TheMusorobert_ancell: the ubuntu-archive home dir on the people.ubuntu.com server is probably the best place to find such info.00:20
TheMusoI think there is a list in there somewhere. pitti or cjwatson would be able to give you more info.00:21
robert_ancellhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.karmic/desktop ?00:22
tkamppeterrobert_ancell: Which printer did you buy?00:23
robert_ancellHP Deskjed F4280 printer/scanner00:23
robert_ancellWas about $60 from office works00:23
tkamppeterrobert_ancell: HP does a good part on it, with their HPLIP drivers and also giving me their printers for testing.00:24
tkamppeterrobert_ancell: Currently I work on the new udev-based Plug'n'Print to make it scale, with a laptop and 10 USB printers connected to it.00:25
robert_ancelltkamppeter, I bought HP because of what I had heard about HPLIP.  The scanning works well but xsane is a terrible interface00:25
robert_ancelltkamppeter, that's a lot of printing!!00:26
tkamppeterrobert_ancell: In Karmic xsane is about to be replaced.00:26
tkamppeterby something (hopefully) more sane.00:26
robert_ancelltkamppeter, printing is great in Ubuntu - I had the father test and he said it was easier than in Windows (and I didn't need a support call)00:26
tkamppeterWindows is this old-fashioned Plug'n'Play: You put in the CD and play for hours, rebooting, connecting the printer, rebooting again ... And Linux has Plug'n'Print.00:28
rickspencer3_tkamppeter: lol00:36
TheMusorickspencer3_: but its so true.00:37
rickspencer3_TheMuso: I wouldn't know00:37
rickspencer3_I haven't used Windows since I worked at Microsoft00:37
rickspencer3_well, not entirely true, I installed Windows in a vm so I could sniff the USB interacton with this little photo viewer keychain thing I bought at Fry's00:38
TheMusoRight. I remember setting printers up for people and having to do a similar procedure to what tkamppeter outline.00:38
rickspencer3_I tell this story all the time ...00:39
rickspencer3_about a year ago, I bought the very first eeepc model, like the first week they were out00:40
rickspencer3_got ubuntu running on it ... I plugged it into the usb printer, and went to get a chair so I could sit down and configure the printer ...00:40
rickspencer3_in the moments I was gone, it had configured itself! there was a little pop-up: "your printer is ready" (or similar)00:41
TheMusoUbuntu is at the point where if things work, they work very very well.00:44
TheMusoso that doesn't surprise me.00:45
ajmitchTheMuso: and if they fail, they fail in spectacular ways?00:51
TheMusoajmitch: Depends on the hardware I think.00:51
TheMusoAudio for example, is very much a mixed bag./00:51
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3-afk
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
pittiGood morning06:10
arammm, my panel has now two different volume applets. Is that expected? why are they different?07:16
* ara is running karmic07:16
pittiara: it's a known problem indeed07:17
pittibut not entirely trivial to solve07:17
arapitti, can you provide some background (or a bug number), please07:18
pittiara: you'll still see the classical "applet" with the horizontal slider, from gnome-applets07:19
pittibut recently, pulseaudio started to have a notification area icon as well07:19
arapitti, I do07:19
pittiwe somehow need to remove the former on upgrades07:19
pittidisabling the former by default should be easy07:19
arapitti, which one are we going to remove? the gnome one or the pulseaudio one?07:20
pittithe gnome one, I think07:20
arammm, the pulseaudio one does not mute on double click, which is a really nice feature07:20
=== WelshDragon is now known as Fluffles
TheMusoNote that the pulseaudio one is provided by gnome-media.07:52
* robert_ancell is going mad battling glib+dbus+policykit08:10
pittihey robert_ancell08:11
robert_ancellhey pitti08:11
pittirobert_ancell: what are you working on? gdm config?08:11
pittirobert_ancell: btw, I was gonna ask you about that08:11
robert_ancellpitti, yes - I figure we need to have some PolicyKit in gdm to control writing the configuration08:12
robert_ancellask away08:12
pittirobert_ancell: I assume that /etc/gdm/custom.conf is just a backwards-compatibility crutch, and it should actually be configured through gconf?08:12
pittirobert_ancell: can we use the existing PK magic in gconf for that?08:12
robert_ancellpitti, No, it appears to be actual configuration though why it hasn't been migrated to gconf I don't know08:12
pittiotherwise we'd need a PK service to gdm itself to write custom.conf08:13
pittihm, that's bad08:13
robert_ancellthere is a dbus service to read and write that config but you need to be root to use it08:13
pittioh, there is already? nice08:13
robert_ancellpitti, I believe they had trouble having a daemon running gconf which is why it ended up like that08:13
pittithen the PKification shouldn't be too bad08:13
pittirobert_ancell: ah, I thought they'd use it for the greeter session08:14
pittibut the greeter might not even run for autologin08:14
robert_ancellpitti, or so I thought... Are you a PK expert?  I'm trying to gather up information to work out how to use it.  It seems very intolerant of my errors08:14
pittirobert_ancell: expert is too much, but I did use it myself in jockey08:15
pittibut I only ever implemented it myself in Python, not C08:15
pittialthough with the libpolkit-gobject stuff it should actually be much easier in C than with the raw d-bus API in Python08:16
pittirobert_ancell: so by and large, you define a new privilege in /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.gnome.gdm.policy (say "org.gnome.gdm.set_autologin")08:17
robert_ancellThe current problem I have is passing a GError on authentication failure causes the error "arguments to dbus_message_new_error() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_error_name (error_name)" failed in file dbus-message.c line 1211".  I have no idea why is wrong with my GError08:17
pittiallow_any =auth_admin should do08:17
robert_ancellpitti, which has to be in lowercase I found out08:17
pittirobert_ancell: did you initialize the GError before?08:18
pitti(or set NULL if it initializes one for itself)08:18
pittiI usually see this if doing something like08:18
pittiGError e;08:18
robert_ancellYes, it's a standard GError - looking through the dbus code it gets the GError "name" and checks that is "asd.asdasd.asd" or similar08:18
pitticall_function (..., &e)08:18
robert_ancellBut I can't find out what I'm supposed to do to make a dbus-compatible GError08:19
pittihm, that's the part I didn't do in Python then08:19
pittimight be worth stealing some code from existing PK services, such as ConsoleKit or devkit-disks08:20
pittirobert_ancell: do you have your current code somewhere?08:20
robert_ancellYes, been looking though those08:20
* pitti takes a look08:20
pittihm, polkit_authority_check_authorization() doesn't even take a GError?08:22
robert_ancellSo it fails in dbus_g_method_return_error08:22
pittiuh, I'm afraid I never touched that08:23
pittirobert_ancell: does it get passed "NULL" or so?08:23
seb128good morning there08:23
pittibonjour seb12808:23
seb128hey robert_ancell pitti08:23
robert_ancellhey seb12808:24
seb128robert_ancell, btw I chatted with rick yesterday who said you found polkit complex08:24
robert_ancellpitti, no, the printf about works08:24
seb128robert_ancell, did you look at polkit1 or the previous version?08:24
robert_ancellseb128, I'm just looking at the Ubuntu packages and the latest docs.  What is the difference?08:25
didrockshey pitti, seb128 and robert_ancell08:26
seb128robert_ancell, I don't use polkit but patches for using the new one are usually dropping some hundred lines of code08:26
seb128robert_ancell, policykit-1 is the new one08:26
robert_ancellseb128, what is the Karmic installed version?08:27
pittirobert_ancell: no idea about the dbus_g_method_return_error(), I'm afraid08:27
robert_ancellI see libpolkit208:27
robert_ancellpitti, thanks for looking08:27
pittioh, indeed, that's policykit 0.9 code08:27
seb128robert_ancell, we have both because things are not migrated yet to policykit-108:27
pittirobert_ancell: in polkit-1, you don't need to do anything on the client side, and the server-side code is much easier08:28
seb128robert_ancell, btw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/LoginExperience too is worth reading if you didn't yet08:30
robert_ancellpolkit-1 looks a lot better.08:31
seb128robert_ancell, doing the change to add the option menu should be easy enough and would be the place where to have the autologin option or a way to start the gdmsetup dialog08:31
seb128robert_ancell, right ;-) that's why I mentioned it, I was not sure if you were looking at the new version08:31
robert_ancellThe PolKit web presence could do with a tidy up :)08:32
pittirobert_ancell: yeah, it got much cleaner in the rewrite08:32
pittibefore that, the client had to do all the juggling to get authentication, etc.08:33
robert_ancellseb128, do you know if the design team wants to have a password prompt when setting the default user?08:34
robert_ancellI guess there has to be one08:35
seb128you mean have to enter your password to change the default autologin user?08:35
seb128yes probably or anybody could do it on the login screen08:35
pittiit needs to ask for an admin user, and her password, yes08:36
pittithis also means that we need to start polkit-gnome in the gdm session08:36
pittiI'm off for an hour for some errands, bbl08:39
seb128pitti, see you08:39
mvo_I get a conffile prompt on jaunty->karmic upgrade for gdm/custom.conf - is that a known issue?08:40
seb128mvo_, no, custom.conf didn't exist in jaunty08:42
mvo_seb128: this is a automatic install, I did not do any customization with it08:43
mvo_seb128: what does normally create it?08:43
mvo_(image was created with ubuntu-vm-builder)08:43
seb128mvo_, it's shipped with the new gdm in karmic08:44
seb128mvo_, we used to have a gdm.custom-conf in jaunty08:44
mvo_seb128: its custom.conf, I just checked the log08:44
seb128mvo_, well it was gdm.conf-custom in jaunty08:44
mvo_seb128: right, it seems like its doing some magic in the preinst that may well confuse the dpkg conffile prompt code08:46
seb128mvo_, the preinst code just rename the file08:46
seb128    if [ -f /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom ]; then08:46
seb128echo "Renaming /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom to /etc/gdm/custom.conf" >&208:46
seb128mv /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom /etc/gdm/custom.conf08:46
seb128    fi08:46
seb128    dpkg --compare-versions "$2" le-nl "2.26.1-0ubuntu5"; then08:46
seb128mvo_, ^ basically08:47
mvo_I see a echo '[daemon]' >> /etc/gdm/custrom.conf here too08:47
seb128mvo_, that's only if there is an autologin setting to migrate08:47
seb128and there is a typo in the next line, going to fix this one08:47
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone08:47
seb128hey ch08:48
seb128hey chrisccoulson08:48
mvo_hey chrisccoulson08:48
chrisccoulsonhey seb128, mvo_08:48
mvo_seb128: I have a look why I get the prompt08:48
mvo_but I promise I did not do customization :)08:48
seb128mvo_, ok, ignore the typo on the echo $settings line08:49
seb128mvo_, did you enable autologin in the installer?08:49
mvo_seb128: no08:49
seb128ok, so the echo lines should not be used08:49
mvo_seb128: is gdm in bzr?09:00
seb128mvo_, yes, why?09:00
mvo_seb128: to get rid of my conffile prompt :)09:01
seb128mvo_, apt-get source gdm should tell you ;-)09:01
seb128mvo_, what do you want to change?09:01
seb128mvo_, don't worry I'm just curious about what is the bug ;-)09:01
chrisccoulsonhey seb128 - i finished the g-s-d update last night, including the fix for the disk space warning that seems to be annoying people09:03
seb128chrisccoulson, hey good, I was just looking to the sponsoring bug but it didn't change09:03
mvo_seb128: so it seems like gdm checks for gdm.conf-custom and (unconditionally) moves it to the new custom.conf - but it has a different md5sum from the custom.conf that is shipped in new-gdm. because it happens in preinst dpkg thinks the user has modified the file09:03
chrisccoulsoni had to make a small change to that though, as i noticed a couple of bugs ;)09:03
seb128mvo_, oh, how do we fix those sort of issues?09:03
robert_ancelllater all09:03
mvo_seb128: I'm not sure what is ideal, I guess not moving if the old gdm.cutom-conf was not modified09:03
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i pushed the changes to my own branch for now. i can push them to ubuntu-desktop unless you want to review the changes first09:04
davmor2seb128: morning09:04
seb128chrisccoulson, is there many changes? it seemed mostly a .install update a patch from git09:04
mvo_seb128: but that would still leave users with a customized one with a conffile prompt09:04
seb128chrisccoulson, ie those should be fine for ubuntu-desktop directly09:04
seb128davmor2, hi09:04
seb128mvo_, which means the majority of users, almost everybody used gdmsetup one day09:05
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, that's basically it. i had to make a small change to the patch from git though, as i noticed some small bugs09:05
chrisccoulsoni'll send those upstream today09:05
mvo_seb128: its way to difficult to do this kind of stuff IMO, just look at http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling09:05
davmor2seb128: gnome-codec-install issue was confirmed yesterday by sbeattie and fader_ on #u-testing09:05
seb128mvo_, I told pitti that we should keep using gdm.conf-custom as naming09:05
mvo_seb128: you think so? I never used it :) but yeah, if its a big portion, then the solution is not good enough09:05
seb128davmor2, good for them?09:05
davmor2I thought I'd added details for it but that was in a previous attept to write the bug that kept timing out  sorry:)09:06
seb128davmor2, we get some hundred bugs confirmed every day, that's useful work but not worth mentioning on IRC09:06
seb128davmor2, not even sure what bug you are talking about there09:06
mvo_seb128: but the code in the wiki page does not move between package AFAICS09:06
seb128mvo_, anybody who enabled timed login, autologin, changed the theme, etc09:06
* mvo_ nods09:06
davmor2bug 40277309:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 402773 in rhythmbox "Karmic: gnome-codec-installer is not finding mp3 but rather looking for input-selector" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40277309:07
mvo_seb128: yeah, I'm sure that are many people09:07
seb128davmor2, well the bug is basically useful, it doesn't describe the issue or what to do to trigger it09:07
mvo_I wonder if we could just ship the same file in the new gdm (with all the header text) so that the md5sums of the original match09:07
seb128davmor2, would be useful if rather than confirming bugs people could describe what they do to trigger the error09:08
* mvo_ scratches his head09:08
seb128mvo_, we used to distro patch the gdm.custom-conf to undo upstream change for that purpose before09:08
seb128mvo_, sometime conffile handling is ridiculously complex09:08
davmor2seb128: Yes again sorry for that I got tied and lp kept timing out on the bug I wrote manually so in the end triggered ubuntu-bug in the hope that lp would accept the report09:09
mvo_we could not ship one in the package but create it on the fly (if there is none already)09:09
seb128davmor2, anyway IRC confirmation are not so useful, could you rather reply to the asked details on the bug?09:10
seb128davmor2, I don't doubt it's an issue for some user but they don't say what they try to play, how, etc09:10
davmor2seb128: I have.  would it be useful to add a screenshot of the end result too?09:11
seb128mvo_, we don't need to ship one at all, that's only a file for user config09:11
hyperairhmm are there supposed to be scripts installed into /etc/pm/sleep.d? i thought the correct place for all package-managed pm-utils scripts was /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d09:11
seb128davmor2, you are not new to bug reporting right? anything which make easy to trigger the bug or explain it correctly ...09:11
seb128davmor2, it's not complicated, a bug just need to be clearly described, ie have easy steps explaining it or a screenshot if you fail to describe those09:11
seb128* start rhythmbox09:11
seb128* add a mp309:11
seb128* double click on it09:12
seb128or whatever you are doing09:12
seb128neither the description nor the error are clear in that bug09:12
seb128"is actually looking for gstreamer input-selector"09:13
seb128how do you figure that?09:13
seb128is that an error? something listed in g-c-i09:13
seb128 09:13
seb128hyperair, not sure you are on the right channel for that question09:13
hyperairseb128: hmm whoops.  which channel should i be on then? -devel?09:14
seb128well you can try09:14
seb128I mean I've no clue about pm-utils09:14
seb128and I guess it's the case for most of desktopers09:14
seb128you can wait for pitti to come back or try another channel09:14
seb128slomo, hi09:29
mvo_seb128: what is the new gdmsetup called - is there one ?09:30
seb128mvo_, no there is none but robert_ancell is working on writting one09:30
mvo_ok, he will have to make sure it works without a custom.conf :)09:30
seb128mvo_, ;-)09:30
mvo_seb128: I think we should be fine with http://paste.ubuntu.com/224167 - unless I miss something, but gdm still starts without a custom.conf for me09:32
mvo_seb128: I just tested 2.26 -> 2.27 and no conffile prompt for me anymore (but for a really meaningful test I have to wait until its in the archive and the auto-upgrade tester can make its job)09:32
seb128mvo_, that's fine with me09:32
seb128mvo_, do you want to do the upload now?09:32
mvo_seb128: ok, I will commit and we can upload after the freeze09:32
seb128ok good09:32
seb128mvo_, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gdmconfig09:33
pittihah, got my climbing equipment rented now09:33
seb128mvo_, if you want to add a note there09:33
mvo_seb128: should I fix the typo (gdm.conf.conf along the way?)09:34
seb128pitti, you go climbing? sounds dangerous, be careful we need you ;-)09:34
seb128mvo_, yes please and upload then ;-)09:34
pittimvo_: perhaps we should not make custom.conf a conffile in the first place?09:34
seb128mvo_, you don't want to clean the autologin option at each upgrade09:34
mvo_pitti: yeah, I currently just removed it from being shipped09:34
pittiseb128: just a fixed rope route, not _that_ dangerous :)09:35
seb128pitti, ^09:35
seb128pitti, good ;-)09:35
* seb128 hugs pitti09:35
pittiseb128: "clean the option"?09:35
seb128pitti, well if custom.conf is not a conffile it will be overwritten at each upgrade09:35
pittihow so?09:35
seb128pitti, better to just not ship a custom.conf at all09:35
pittithe migration removes the old gdm.conf-custom09:35
pittiseb128: right, I don't particularly mind09:36
seb128pitti, if you have a custom.conf in the gdm binary upgrade will install the new version on disk no?09:36
pittithe postinst coudl create one for having a template for the user to change09:36
pittiseb128: that would be a conffile09:36
slomoseb128: hi :)09:36
seb128<pitti> mvo_: perhaps we should not make custom.conf a conffile in the first place?09:36
seb128pitti, I'm not sure to follow the discussion ;-)09:36
pittiseb128: right; it's currently a conffile, which causes the dpkg prompt09:37
seb128slomo, hey, is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/402221 a known issue?09:37
ubottuUbuntu bug 402221 in totem "[Karmic ] GstDecodeBin2: This appears to be a text file" [Undecided,New]09:37
pittiso if we make it a normal config file, handled by postinst, we avoid the prompt09:37
seb128pitti, ah right, that would work too09:37
seb128though I'm in favor of as little postinst work as possible09:37
pittiseb128: operationally it's pretty much the same, but providing a default is easier for admins to change, IMHO09:37
seb128ie if having no config in the package and no postinst magic is possible the better09:37
pittiit's possible09:37
seb128we could still have an example config in /usr/share/something09:38
pittibut right, once Robert implements the GUI for configuring gdm, we would have had the same problem again09:38
pittiseb128: *nod*09:38
seb128pitti, why? there is no conffile prompt if you don't have a conffile09:38
seb128is custom.conf would be an user written data09:38
seb128not something managed by a package09:38
pittiseb128: right, I meant "with the current version'09:39
pittii. e. it doesn't matter how the file is named, we'd have the same problem with a conffile09:39
pitti-> conffile is bad09:39
seb128so let's not ship any custom.conf at all09:39
seb128and let the gdmsetup write one09:39
pittimvo_, seb128: so we should fix .install to instlal /etc/gdm/custom.conf into /usr/share/gdm/examples/ ?09:40
mvo_pitti: sure, we can do that too09:40
slomoseb128: one moment09:40
* mvo_ changes bzr09:40
pittimvo_: ah, you already changed it; nevermind09:40
seb128well just change the rules line to a mv one09:41
seb128easy enough ;-)09:41
pittiomph, nasty typo, thanks for fixing09:41
mvo_yeah, just go ahead09:41
slomoseb128: not known but interesting, thanks :)09:41
seb128slomo, do you want me to bugzilla it?09:41
mvo_should it still be uploaded even though we are in the freeze?09:42
pittimvo_: yes, I think so09:42
seb128mvo_, ask pitti, I tend to be liberal about small fixes during soft freezes09:42
pittitarget of opportunity, and it's not intrusive09:43
pittiand fixes upgrades09:43
seb128but that's only me I don't want to recommend that to everybody ;-)09:43
slomoseb128: yes, might be a totem bug though but first file it on gst-plugins-base09:43
seb128slomo, ok, doing that09:43
pittithings to avoid now: polkit-1 migration and soname breaks09:43
pittithings encouraged: fix RC bugs and other bugs which don't change package structure and are tested09:43
slomoseb128: oh wait09:44
pittimvo_: please go ahead; I'm a bit busy with alpha-3 stuff09:44
mvo_pitti: sure, can do09:44
* pitti hugs mvo_, thanks for the fixes09:44
slomoseb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58770409:44
ubottuGnome bug 587704 in gst-plugins-base ""GstDecodeBin2: This appears to be a text file" error when playing files from a samba share" [Normal,Unconfirmed]09:44
pittimvo_: oh, and thanks for adopting gdm :-P09:44
seb128slomo, doh, just opened a bug so closing it now09:45
* mvo_ crawls under a rock09:45
* pitti watches mvo_ run away screaming09:45
slomoseb128: sorry but at least you have bug closing powers :)09:45
pittimvo_: so you did an upgrade test to current karmic? how bad is it?09:46
seb128slomo, no problem ;-) you don't?09:46
mvo_pitti: suprisingly good actually09:46
mvo_pitti: just the conffile prompt during the upgrade09:46
seb128slomo, comment added upstream on the other bug and new one closed, thanks!09:47
mvo_pitti: no errors, it still boots afterwards09:47
slomoseb128: i do but often i have to close bugs where the reporter writes a comment that it can be closed ;)09:47
pittimvo_: nice, can you please add that to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/2808 ?09:47
seb128slomo, btw do you know if anybody fixes libmms issues? got another totem crasher due to it09:48
mvo_pitti: adding it now09:48
slomoseb128: i don't know, at some point upstream was dead, then someone else took it. no idea if someone is maintaining it currently09:48
seb128slomo, ok09:49
seb128mvo_, congrats on take over gdm btw ;-)09:49
* mvo_ is still hidding under a rock09:49
mvo_oh, we even have system/shutdown back :) ?09:49
seb128mvo_, you have been living under this rock for how long now? ;-)09:50
* seb128 hides09:50
mvo_seb128: I tend to shutdown my machine with "sudo halt" :)09:50
seb128as all real men do? ;-)09:50
mvo_seb128: but thats great to have it back09:50
pittiwell, that certainly works :)09:50
pittireal men yank out the power chord09:50
pittiand have journalling09:50
seb128mvo_, it's temporary until the slack^Wdxteam update fusa09:50
seb128mvo_, otherwise we would have no action to stop the box at all right now09:51
hyperairpitti: yanking out my cord switches me to the battery! =p09:51
* hyperair uses gnome do to shut down09:51
pittinot for me, I don't keep the battery in the laptop usually09:51
hyperairhmm saving the battery life?09:52
pitticonstantly charging/discharging it isn't exactly helpful09:53
pittiand even if it's fully charged, they still get a constant trickle of charging power09:53
mvo_seb128: could you please have a look at the gdm bzr (just so that I don't upload with embarassing typos/thinkos or anything)09:54
pittiI wish any notebook vendor would invent a simple switch to physically disconnect the battery without ahving to take it out09:54
seb128mvo_, ok09:54
mvo_pitti: I guess part of the problem is that this won't stop the heat from the machine to get to the battery09:54
pittimvo_: looks good to me09:54
mvo_pitti: thanks!09:55
* pitti injects "debcommit -r" into mvo's brain09:55
didrockspitti: new merge proposal (https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/python-distutils-extra/update_control_file/+merge/9090). Just to comment on the "erasing the entire debian/control", that's not what my code does. It's only updating the automated generated fields, leaving fields order or added fields pristine. Btw, I added the force-control switch :)09:55
pittididrocks: ah, nice09:55
seb128mvo_, looks good to me too09:56
seb128hey didrocks09:56
didrockshey seb128 (seems everyone missed my "good morning" on the chan two hours later ;))09:57
didrocks(sorry, my "good morning" missed everyone... damn English ;))09:57
pittibonjour didrocks!09:57
didrocksGuten Tag pitti :)09:58
seb128slomo, any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/402773 too?10:01
chrisccoulsongood morning didrocks ;)10:01
didrockshi chrisccoulson10:02
mvo_hey didrocks!10:02
didrocksGuten Tag mvo_ (it's like a FIFO list with one element at each time ;))10:03
slomoseb128: yes, fixed with gs-tplugins-base (input-selector was needed by playbin2 but is in gst-plugins-bad)10:04
seb128slomo, ok thanks10:05
ubottuUbuntu bug 402773 in rhythmbox "gnome-codec-installer is not finding mp3 but rather looking for input-selector" [Low,Incomplete]10:05
seb128slomo, ok thanks10:06
* didrocks hopes that KMS will soon enable less seb128 flickering :)10:07
seb128didrocks, lol10:07
seb128could the ubuntuone-client guys stop turning nautilus is a crash land?10:08
* seb128 reassign 3 new nautilus crashes to ubuntuone-client10:09
pittiseb128: all dupes? should we set up a bug patterN?10:09
seb128pitti, well those are new ones, doesn't help that none of the 15 retracing I looked at this morning all failed to give any debug symbol10:10
seb128I'm wondering if the retracers are broken10:10
pittiwould be worth checking the log for one of the bugs, perhaps dbgsyms are missing10:11
seb128pitti, well, that's over 6 different components now10:11
seb128nautilus, gnome-media,ubuntuone-client,notify-osd, gedit10:11
* seb128 has a look to the retracer log10:12
seb128nothing obvious in the log10:13
* seb128 logs into a amd64 karmic retracer10:15
seb128what the?10:17
seb128# ls /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control -l10:17
seb128-rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 2552 144656 Jul 16 22:40 /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control10:17
seb128# gdb /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control CoreDump10:17
seb128/usr/bin/gnome-volume-control: No such file or directory.10:18
seb128(no debugging symbols found)10:18
seb128Core was generated by `gnome-volume-control'.10:18
seb128Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.10:18
seb128#0  0x00000000004100a3 in ?? ()10:18
seb128 10:18
seb128"No such file or directory."?10:18
pittiseb128: fakechroot bug? try a relative path?10:18
seb128# /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control10:18
seb128** (gnome-volume-control:5799): WARNING **: Cannot open display:10:18
seb128# gdb gnome-volume-control10:18
pittibut it might explain broken retraces10:18
seb128/usr/bin/../lib/debug//usr/bin/gnome-volume-control: No such file or directory.10:18
pittigdb usr/bin/gnome-volume-control I meant10:19
seb128/usr/bin/../lib/debug//usr/bin/gnome-volume-control: No such file or directory.10:19
pittiI tried the apport chroot test suite on current karmic, it worked, but it doesn't cover everything10:19
seb128I think retracers are officially broken10:19
seb128should we comment the cron job?10:20
pittiplease just comment the karmic entry in chrootmap10:20
pittiunless you are sure that juanty/hardy etc. are affected as well10:20
seb128pitti, I will check that and comment the 9.10 line if jaunty is working10:21
pittiseb128: thanks muchly10:22
seb128you're welcome10:22
* pitti continues to fight with CD builds10:23
seb128pitti, the jaunty retrace seem to work so I only commented karmic10:46
pittiseb128: thanks10:47
* pitti blames fakechroot10:47
seb128we will have to retag bugs once that's fixed, we have some hundred of failed retraced this week10:47
seb128not the perfect time to enable apport by default10:47
pittiseb128: ok, can you please give me a quick heads-up what you did? I'm done wrestling with CDs for now, and can look into this11:02
seb128pitti, I just commented the 9.10 line for now11:02
seb128to get the issue?11:02
* pitti logs into i386 chroot11:02
seb128logged into a karmic amd64 retracer11:03
seb128apt-get install gnome-media-dbgsym11:03
seb128got a crashdump from a launchpad bug11:03
seb128and tried to use gdb on it11:03
seb128got the file no exist error11:03
seb128where running the binary by hand works11:03
pittiah, you just downloaded the core dump, I guess?11:03
pittiwhich bug#?11:03
seb128I wanted to try if the coredump was working in gdb11:03
seb128pitti, bug #40282711:04
ubottuBug 402827 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/402827 is private11:04
pittiseb128: merci11:04
seb128pitti, bug #40282711:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 402827 in gnome-media "gnome-volume-control crashed with SIGSEGV in IA__g_closure_invoke()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40282711:04
seb128set it public now it's only a mixer crash11:04
pittiroot@ronne:/# /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control11:05
pitti/usr/bin/gnome-volume-control: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.9' not found (required by /tmp/tmplPa6MR/usr/lib/libgio-2.0.so.0)11:05
seb128was working for me11:06
seb128or rather I was getting a no display set error11:06
pittiI'm in the i386 chroot11:07
pittianyway, "gdb /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control" reproduces the problem perfectly well11:08
seb128I'm really clueless about how to debug such issues11:08
pittiexec-file usr/bin/gnome-volume-control11:09
pittithat works11:09
pitti#($*#$ fakechroot *(*#$11:09
seb128what is exec-file?11:09
pittiin gdb11:09
seb128doing gdb usr/bin/gnome-volume-control works11:10
pittisame as $111:10
seb128but it doesn't manage to find the debug symbols then11:10
pittireally? that doesn't even work here11:10
pitti/usr/bin/../lib/debug//usr/bin/gnome-volume-control: No such file or directory.11:10
seb128that's what I mean11:10
pitti14937 stat64("/home/ubuntu-archive/apport-retracer-i386/chroots/karmic/usr/bin/gnome-mount", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=80860, ...}) = 011:22
pitti14937 open("/usr/bin/gnome-mount", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)11:22
pittiso, it's not wrapped correctly11:22
seb128that's all magic to me how that thing is working11:22
pittiseb128: essentially, it is a preloaded library which wraps all libc calls like open(), stat(), etc.11:23
pittiand prepends the fake chroot path11:23
pittibut newer glibcs tend to introduce newer variants of calls, which fakechroot has to catch up with11:23
seb128pitti, well it didn't change recently in karmic why does it break out of the blue now?11:23
seb128ah ok11:23
pittiglibc did change11:23
seb128so it's doko's fault11:23
pittioh, nice11:24
pittiit does work in a karmic dchroot11:24
seb128Keybuk, right ;-)11:25
seb128pitti, can we retrace jaunty bugs also there?11:25
pittiseb128: that's what I'm going to check right now11:25
pittiI wouldn't like yet another duplication of retracer setups11:25
pittiI'm testing jaunty dchroot with intrepid/jaunty/karmic fakechroots now11:26
pitti/CoreDump" is not a core dump: File format not recognized11:27
pittioh, it's an amd64 core11:27
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
seb128pitti, want a i386 one?11:28
pittimeh, suddenly all bugs I'm looking at are amd6411:28
pittianyway, I'm fairly sure it works in the jaunty dchroot11:29
seb128pitti, bug #40294011:29
ubottuBug 402940 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/402940 is private11:29
seb128pitti, bug #40220211:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 402202 in evince "evince crashed with SIGSEGV in cmsDoTransform()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40220211:30
pittimeh, no luck in karmic dchroot11:33
seb128I would argue to have karmic working and break jaunty if we can have only one right now11:33
seb128ie quick way would be to switch to karmic and comment jaunty11:34
pittiright, if only karmic would work in the karmic dchroot11:34
pittibut apparently it doesn't11:34
seb128<pitti> oh, nice11:34
seb128<pitti> it does work in a karmic dchroot11:34
pittiI tested that with /usr/bin/gnome-mount11:35
pittiseb128: is there a bug for the two mixer applets already?12:03
chrisccoulson2 mixer applets? or 1 mixer applet and 1 g-v-c-applet?12:04
chrisccoulsoni'm sure i've seen a bug for that12:04
chrisccoulsonpitti - bug 40129412:05
pittiwell, applets, notifications, etc.12:05
seb128pitti, you seem to be strongly annoyed by that one ;-)12:05
chrisccoulsonbug #40129412:05
pittiseb128: I need it for the release notes12:05
seb128chrisccoulson, bot is being slow recently12:06
pittiseb128: it seems fixing that for new installs/live images is trivial, it just needs a solution for upgrades?12:06
* hyperair tossed the panel applet away12:06
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i was just about to ask if the bot was sleeping ;)12:06
hyperairthe other one went into the notification area didnt it?12:06
seb128pitti, right, I'm still not clear what we should be doing12:06
chrisccoulsonshould we not just disable the mixer applet in gnome-applets?12:07
pittiwell, if the pulseaudio notification icon is the new thing, then we should use it12:07
seb128pitti, the switch to the new capplet in karmic renewed the oem complains about lack of feature in this version12:07
pittiand disable the old applet by default12:07
seb128pitti, so I'm trying to not run into things which will make a potential rollback harder12:07
pittiI see12:07
pitti(that's a separate issue, though, isn't it?)12:08
seb128I'm still not sure how much oem need things which are not working12:08
chrisccoulsonshould we not try to get these missing features in to the new applet?12:08
seb128and what we can do for karmic12:08
chrisccoulsonrather than shipping 212:08
seb128chrisccoulson, nobody said we should ship 2, I'm just trying to not wipe the applet from configs if we are going to roll back12:08
pittibut both applets bring back the very same dialog?12:09
seb128yes, the capplet is orthogonal12:09
seb128it's just than we can roll back to the previous capplet quite easily12:10
seb128but once the applet has been cleaned from the user config it will not be added again automatically12:10
james_wwhy is it a notification icon now?12:10
james_wisn't an applet better?12:10
seb128james_w, I expect because the redhat guys don't have applet in their gnome-shell world12:10
pittiseb128: right, but the upgrade issue is a bit less distracting than new installs/live systems12:12
pittianyway, I'll release-note it12:12
seb128pitti, I think you are making a bigger deal of that that it is, ie it's mainly visual glitch12:12
seb128which is expected from an alpha version anyway12:12
seb128we had the issue for several jaunty alphas too12:12
pittiright, but I expect duplicates to be filed12:12
pittiso I'd like to point it out as a known issue12:12
seb128right, makes sense12:13
james_wgiven that they launch the same dialog, why not just use the applet anyway?12:13
james_wI guess it's unsupported now?12:13
seb128james_w, well the applet doesn't control pulseaudio directly I think12:16
seb128james_w, my understanding is that alsa mixer should be set to max and pulseaudio used for control12:16
seb128having a mixer changing alsa volume break that model12:16
pittiok, I applied an apport workaround to the i386 karmic fakechroot, testing12:23
seb128pitti, you are a superstar ;-)12:28
pittiseems I'm not :/12:28
pittibug 40297212:28
seb128no bot12:28
pitticrappy retrace again12:29
pittioh, wait12:29
pittino nautilus dbgsym for 2.27.412:30
pittiwe lose12:30
seb128how come12:30
* pitti wants soyuz ddeb support12:31
seb128pitti, they are on http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/n/nautilus/ weird12:32
pittiso index generation failed; I'll trigger a rebuild12:33
seb128oh, not the ubuntu2 version12:33
pittibut I'll apply/test the workaround for amd64 first12:33
didrocksyeah, -ubuntu2 dbgsym failed for i386, lpia and powerpc12:34
didrocks(armel too)12:34
pittimeh, not my day today12:35
seb128didrocks, how "failed"?12:35
pittifailing desktop CD builds, failing ddebs, failing fakechroot12:35
pittitime for holidays12:35
didrocksI just looked at ddebs. I'm heading to LP12:35
* seb128 hugs didrocks12:35
seb128didrocks, right, I figured so far that they were not there ;-)12:35
seb128dpkg-deb: building package `nautilus-dbgsym' in `../nautilus-dbgsym_2.27.4-0ubuntu2_i386.ddeb'.12:36
didrocksseb128: oh sorry, read too fast and missed your "<seb128> oh, not the ubuntu2 version"12:36
seb128pitti, can you check if those have been stored where they should but just not moved?12:36
seb128pitti, where I those stored and where is the code running again?12:37
seb128I know I had a look during some distro sprint but didn't take notes12:37
pittiseb128: macaroni.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-archive, see crontab -l12:38
* pitti runs for d in 20090716 20090717 20090718 20090719 20090720 20090721 20090722; do ~/ddeb-retriever/ddeb-retriever $d; done12:38
seb128pitti, thanks, looking12:38
seb128ah that's it12:38
pittithis should re-fetch all the ddebs from the last week12:38
seb128previous time lp pages changed and parsing broke12:38
seb128I remember now12:39
pittiseb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media/+bug/40282712:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 402827 in gnome-media "gnome-volume-control crashed with SIGSEGV in IA__g_closure_invoke()" [Medium,New]12:39
pittiseb128: it's not really nice, but at least it somewhat works again12:39
seb128pitti, see you are a rockstart I knew it ;-)12:39
pittiall the gstreamer packages are outdated, but that shouldn't really make a difference?12:40
pittiseb128: well I think I leave it running for a while again12:40
pittiseb128: please stop them again if they still wreak havoc12:40
seb128pitti, no it shouldn't12:40
seb128pitti, ok12:40
seb128pitti, do you have magic to retrace everything which failed this week?12:41
pittino, that requires log parsing, collect the bug numbers, and using ./mass-tag.py12:41
seb128pitti, will do that12:41
* pitti hugs seb12812:42
* seb128 hugs pitti back12:42
pittithanks; I need to get back to unf*** CD builds, I'm afraid12:42
seb128Keybuk, hey12:42
seb128Keybuk, could you do a bootchart with /usr/lib/nautilus moved away to compare with it being there?12:42
seb128Keybuk, just to give us a clue about how much time in nautilus startup is being spent there12:43
seb128by local testing it seems to take 3 seconds on a 8 seconds startup with empty cache12:43
pittihttp://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/n/nautilus/ has the current ddebs now12:46
pittiregenerating package indexes now12:47
seb128pitti, \o/12:48
seb128another mysterious failure there but if that works now...12:49
pittiwell, let's see for how long12:49
pittiI wish that apt-ftparchive wouldn't need a million years12:49
pittithen I could run it more often and avoid dropping packages12:49
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
Keybukseb128: can I do it once I have the SSD-based Mini? that's the "official" benchmark13:19
seb128Keybuk, yes sure, thanks13:19
seb128I've just started looking at what is taking time nautilus start by using federico's printf and strace way13:20
mvo_pitti: it takes a million years even with the db cache?13:31
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
seb128pitti, hum, we install contact-lookup-applet by default, I think we can stop doing that14:11
=== rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3
seb128hey rickspencer314:25
rickspencer3hi seb12814:27
seb128mvo_, did you start working on porting synaptic to gtkbuilder?14:38
pittihey rickspencer314:38
mvo_seb128: yes, but just briefly, the glade code there is pretty old, I got a lot of error from glade-314:38
mvo_seb128: then I got a bit anoyed and did something else :)14:38
seb128mvo_, how likely is it for karmic?14:38
seb128mvo_, I'm just updating the GNOME3 spec14:39
mvo_seb128: 50/50 - I would like to do it, but my workload is relatively big currently14:39
seb128mvo_, ideally we want everything using gtkbuilder before ll14:39
mvo_seb128: ll ?14:39
mvo_lazy lizard?14:39
seb128yeah ;-)14:39
seb128ie not having to use libglade in the default lts install would be cool14:40
pittiseb128: oh? it's not part of gnome any more?14:40
seb128pitti, gtkbuilder is what should be used now14:41
pittiseb128: I meant contact-lookup-applet14:41
seb128pitti, oh, it has never been14:41
mvo_seb128: ok, I will bump priority, is there a list of stuff that needs to be ported?14:41
seb128mvo_, don't, we have a good 8 months for it14:42
seb128pitti, c-l-a didn't change since gutsy14:42
seb128pitti, it gives an indication of how active upstream is ;-)14:43
seb128and I don't know of anybody using it, the bug list also doesn't suggest it's a lot14:43
pittiseb128: so, it saves us 29 kB :)14:45
seb128well we can let if you want14:46
seb128it's just on the "still use libglade" list14:46
seb128and I was surprised to see we have it on the CD14:46
pittiseb128: oh, let's kick it for uncruftification's sake14:46
* pitti unseeds14:46
pittiseb128: done14:47
seb128pitti, danke14:47
pittiwill be gone after alpha-314:47
pittiseb128: out of interest, how many libglade and libgnome rdeps do we still have on the default install now?14:48
seb128pitti, mvo: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gnome-314:49
seb128bottom of the whiteboard has the alpha3 current list14:49
seb128"libglade default installation:"14:49
pittiah, thanks14:50
seb128pitti, so after next GNOME updates round (ie next week) we should be around 7-8 of those to tackle14:51
=== andreasn_ is now known as andreasn
seb128pitti, so when not building the applet you get a message telling you that the mixer is not available in new GNOME at next login15:00
seb128do we want that?15:00
pittifor upgrades?15:00
pittiit's a wart, but we can't leave it there forever15:01
pittiseb128: but why wouldn't we build the applet?15:01
tedgNo, we don't want that.15:01
pittiI thought we just want to disable it by default?15:01
tedgThe warning is not okay.15:01
seb128pitti, how do you do that?15:01
seb128tedg, you would just silently clean the config?15:01
pittiseb128: oh, I thought it'd be a gconf schema change or so15:02
pittiseb128: (at least for new installs)15:02
tedgseb128: Either that or create a "NULL" mixer applet.15:02
seb128tedg, well that's what the null applet do basically15:02
chrisccoulsonthe null applet is what asks you if you want to remove it from your config i think15:02
seb128not sure why they decided to display a message now15:02
tedgseb128: Not cause an error on login ;)15:02
chrisccoulsonit would be easy to patch the null applet to remove from the config without asking15:03
seb128it used to just clean the config I think15:03
seb128tedg, it's not an error it's an information dialog telling you what is happening to your applet15:03
seb128chrisccoulson, right, which is basically what I was asking, if we want to do that15:03
tedgThe problem is people who have home directories that are on different releases of Ubuntu.15:03
tedgseb128: It reads like an error.  I wouldn't say it's informational at all.15:03
seb128tedg, have you seen the dialog?15:04
pittiwell, it's confusing, since from the perspective of the user you still have it15:04
tedgYes, remember, I write all these little applets.  My panel config looks like crap.  I get all kinds of fun errors :)15:04
pitti(yes, it's the pulse notification thing, but looks all the same)15:04
seb128pitti, right, what I though15:05
chrisccoulsonwhat pulls in gnome-media on xubuntu?15:12
chrisccoulson(sorry, i can't check right now at work)15:12
pittixubuntu-desktop -> xfce4-xfapplet-plugin -> gnome-applets -> gnome-media15:13
pittioops, no, that's just a suggests15:13
chrisccoulsonit seems xubuntu users are getting gnome-media, which has gnome-volume-control-applet, which goes crazy when pulaeaudio is not available15:14
chrisccoulsonwe should probably patch the desktop file to only start in gnome15:14
seb128chrisccoulson, or add a recommends on pulseaudio15:16
seb128since the mixer applet and dialog depends on it now15:16
chrisccoulsonseb128 - we could do i suppose. but the dependency on libpulse should be enough shouldn't it? or do we add a PA dependency for every application that uses it?15:17
chrisccoulsonor should libpulse depend on PA?15:17
seb128chrisccoulson, the fact that you use libpulse doesn't mean you depends on pulse15:18
seb128ie the old capplet was able to use gstreamer or alsa15:19
chrisccoulsonyeah, thats true actually15:19
seb128but the new codebase apparently does require pulseaudio to be running to be useful15:19
chrisccoulsonwell, it requires it to be installed. it doesn't need to be running, as it will automatically start it if it isn't15:20
chrisccoulsonbut that's the issue with the high CPU usage15:20
chrisccoulsoni did suggest a fix to upstream to lower the CPU usage, but i don't know if they'll consider it15:23
chrisccoulsoncharlie-tca - how does gnome-media get installed on your xubuntu machine (what depends on it)?15:28
charlie-tcaI have no idea. Does alsa install it?15:28
chrisccoulsoni doubt it15:29
Laneyaptitude why gnome-media15:30
charlie-tcametacity, gnome-session15:31
chrisccoulsonLaney - thanks - i didn't know that15:31
Laneytis useful sometimes15:31
Laneythere's also whynot15:31
chrisccoulsoncharlie-tca - thanks. that makes sense15:31
charlie-tcaYou are welcome15:32
charlie-tcaThanks, Laney15:32
chrisccoulsonit seems xubuntu currently uses half of gnome just for the login screen now15:32
charlie-tcaI know...15:32
=== SiDi_ is now known as SiDi
seb128pitti, bug #401294 fix uploaded for new installs15:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 401294 in gnome-applets "sound applet and notification icon create duplication" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40129415:39
seb128(ie removed the mixer applet from the default profile)15:39
pittiseb128: yay, thanks15:39
pittiseb128: should we keep the bug open for upgrades, though?15:40
seb128pitti, the gnome-applets task is still open for that15:40
pittiah, I see15:40
seb128pitti, I've the change to no build the applet I just need to silent the null applet cleaning the config on upgrade15:40
pittiseb128: I need to rebuild the ubuntu desktops anyway (ecryptfs), so that might just make it15:43
seb128pitti, I think retracers are still broken, should I stop those?15:47
pittiseb128: *sigh* please15:48
seb128pitti, they find the binaries now but not the debug symbol I think15:48
seb128pitti, ie http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29390644/Stacktrace.txt15:48
seb128for bug #40267315:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 402673 in notify-osd "notify-osd crashed with SIGSEGV in tile_destroy()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40267315:48
pittiseb128: so it seems it finds the executable file again, but not the debug symbols somehow15:49
seb128pitti, right, similar to this morning when doing "exec-file usr/bin/binary"15:52
seb128pedro_, fyi retracers are broken so don't touch crash bugs for now, ie stop cleaning crashdump we might be able to retrace later15:53
pedro_seb128, got it, may you please ping me when they start working again?15:54
seb128pedro_, will do!15:54
pedro_seb128, thanks pal ;-)15:54
seb128you're welcome ;-)15:54
seb128pitti, we should install gnome-disk-utility by default btw16:17
seb128pitti, it has been accepted as official GNOME 2.28 component16:17
pittiseb128: ack16:18
seb128asac, gnome-bluetooth and webkit have been accepted for 2.2816:19
pittiseb128: please seed it (I'm @ phone)16:19
seb128pitti, if you can do it quickly after your phone call please do, I will have a look otherwise but I didn't touch any seed for ages so I need to read documentation on where to get those again, etc16:20
pittiseb128: ok, will do16:20
seb128pitti, gnome-applets updated too to not build the mixer applet and clean config on upgrade16:34
pittiseb128: wow, you rock!16:35
pittiseb128: nice, the patch was just commenting out code in null-applet? interesting16:39
seb128pitti, well the null applet is made to clean applets not built on upgrade, GNOME is just displaying annoying dialog at next login which I commented16:39
seb128going to open a bug upstream for discussion now16:40
pittiseb128: so that would affect other removed applets as well then?16:40
seb128pitti, right, other applets in the list being inbox and cd player16:41
seb128dunno what inbox is and cd player has no been built for years16:41
pittiah, it has an explicit list16:41
pittithat sounds fine16:41
seb128yes, it's in the null-applet.c16:41
chrisccoulsoni'm wondering if some of the other less useful applets should be removed?16:44
chrisccoulsonie, battstatus, which uses a deprecated /proc/acpi interface, or HAL16:44
chrisccoulsonand modemlights seems to require network-admin, which is not installed by default anyway16:46
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
asacseb128: ok. where is the announce?17:28
* pitti purges devicekit17:28
pittiKeybuk: \o/17:28
seb128asac, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2009-July/msg00005.html17:29
seb128asac, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2009-July/msg00005.html17:29
Keybukpitti: you're updating DK-power before α3?17:30
pittiKeybuk: no, but locally17:30
pittiwhile I wait for infinity unbreaking live CD builds17:30
pittiKeybuk: I added a Conflicts/Replaces devicekit to dk-p for cleanup love17:31
hyperairis anyone familiar with gstreamer here?17:31
hyperairit seems that the default installation of ubuntu has the alsa plugin used instead of the pulseaudio plugin.17:32
hyperairthis was a non-issue before, but now that we've got the volume control applet which integrates into pulseaudio, you get a lot of annoying output17:32
hyperairin the case of banshee, it lists "mono" as the application, rather than showing a nice Banshee icon17:32
seb128hyperair, slomo17:33
hyperairooh he's around today!17:34
hyperairat least, his irc client is. =\17:34
=== ember_ is now known as ember
mat_tbryce: ping17:52
pittiseb128: I just discussed some gnome-power-manager patches with hughsie and got a +1 for committing them; do you think you can be my commit bot for them?18:02
pittiseb128: he said "just go ahead and commit trivial fixes, just consult me for UI/policy changes"18:03
seb128pitti, seems a good opportunity for you to ask for commit rights to GNOME? ;-)18:03
pittiheh, seems I should18:03
pittiseb128: I'm currently doing a g-p-m patch review (while waiting for CD builds)18:03
seb128you can probably have davidz vouching for you too18:03
pittiseb128: I'll look at the procedure next week then18:04
seb128pitti, http://live.gnome.org/NewAccounts18:05
pittiseb128: can I throw three format-patches at you, and you commit them?18:05
seb128pitti, yes18:05
pittitab opened, thanks18:05
pittidoing them then18:05
seb128pitti, I will go for dinner now but will commit that after dinner18:06
pittiseb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti//tmp/gpm/18:26
pittitedg: is anything actually using gnome-power-manager-inhibit ?18:39
pittiand what is it for, exactly?18:40
tedgpitti: I do :)18:40
tedgpitti: http://gould.cx/ted/blog/A_small_utility_you_probably_don_t_know18:41
pittitedg: ah, so it's not something other distro parts call?18:41
pittitedg: ok, thanks18:41
tedgIt came from a UDS session where people said that we couldn't do sleep by default because of command line apps.18:41
pittiah, thanks18:42
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i've pushed the g-s-d changes now18:49
chrisccoulsonanyone know where i can find Jens Granseuer and what his IRC handle is? i can't see him on any channels i'm on, unless he has a really obscure IRC name18:53
Le-Chuck_ITAHeya do you remember the discussion about pulseaudio+skype?19:01
Le-Chuck_ITAthere's a simple workaround which may be perhaps powered-up19:01
Le-Chuck_ITAusing "pavucontrol" one can go to the configuration tab, turn off the input and output of pulse, make a skype call, turn on input and output again and enjoy banshee again.19:02
Le-Chuck_ITAthe same for jack and thus ardour19:02
Le-Chuck_ITAperhaps a simple control for this could be put in the default desktop, dunno, I tell you, you do whatever you please :)19:03
hyperairinteresting eh.19:06
hyperairwell skype + pulse worked nicely for me when i was in x8619:06
hyperairbut i'm getting a hell lot of underruns in x64.19:06
hyperairi'm not sure whether it's something that changed in karmic or whether it's to do with x64.19:07
hyperairthe last time i used x86 was in intrepid.19:07
Le-Chuck_ITAI constantly get underruns with pulseaudio+skype, but using alsa it works. As it's a buggy closed application, having it working is enough.19:09
Le-Chuck_ITABut the problem is there also for jack apps so it's worth thinking about it19:09
hyperairstupid skype.19:09
hyperairif only ekiga worked properly through my uni's strange firewall19:10
hyperairthen i'd install it at home and use ekiga instead.19:10
hyperairno wait, ekiga has underruns too.19:11
hyperairi'm beginning to think it's the pulseaudio alsa plugin19:12
hyperairrather than all the other apps19:12
hyperairhell, even sdl can't access pulseaudio thorugh alsa19:12
Le-Chuck_ITAekiga works for me :) but I can't find a sip provider having a flat offer for the whole europe - but we are getting a bit offtopic19:13
Le-Chuck_ITAand plus, ekiga is going to be replaced by empathy I suppose. And empathy-sip does not work at all for me.19:13
Le-Chuck_ITAhyperair you know the drill: report the bugs! :)19:14
hyperairhmm i haven't tried empathy sip19:17
Le-Chuck_ITAbye for now19:25
rickspencer3man, my day was going so smooth until about 1.5 hours ago, suddenly I was getting pinged from all directions!19:27
* pitti stomps on rickspencer3's DSL cable19:27
* bryce pings rickspencer319:30
* rickspencer3 pongs in random directions19:30
bryceI've been pointing people at http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/2006-10-10-12-05_contentless_pings.html - I don't mind getting pinged a lot, it's just maddening when they don't say what they want :-)19:31
chrisccoulsonping bryce19:32
* chrisccoulson runs19:32
rickspencer3bryce: in terms of "contentless pings" it seems cultural19:33
rickspencer3some channels seem to prefer it, and some channels it pisses people off19:33
seb128hey rickspencer3, ping? ;-)19:34
seb128chrisccoulson, he's on #control-center on irc.gnome.org usually but seems busy recently19:34
seb128chrisccoulson, ie not often on irc19:35
seb128pitti, ok thanks19:35
chrisccoulsonthanks seb128. i have another patch for him19:35
didrocks« stop ping, make hugs »19:37
* seb128 hugs didrocks19:37
* didrocks hugs seb128 back19:37
* chrisccoulson hugs didrocks19:37
* didrocks hugs chrisccoulson too ;)19:38
* rickspencer3 gets set to install alpha 3 on my netbook - iso testing19:59
seb128chrisccoulson, re, cf cleaning other old applets I think it's a good idea indeed20:06
seb128chrisccoulson, could you email ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com with a suggestion?20:06
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i can do. i think it's only the 2 applets i've already mentioned so far20:07
james_wanyone getting segfaults with gksudo?20:09
seb128james_w, no20:11
james_wjust me then :-)20:14
james_wI'll try and debug later20:15
pittijames_w: again? :-)20:16
pittione broken sudo per day is clearly enough20:16
pittiseb128: the current desktop CD is a work of perfection20:22
pittiwhat should I complain about now?20:22
seb128gvfs crashes when connection to a ssh location there20:22
seb128do you get that issue too?20:22
pittiMount(0): SFTP auf piware.de -> sftp://piware.de/20:23
pitti  Type: GDaemonMount20:23
seb128hum, k20:23
pittiI opened my server bookmark and have nautilus20:23
pittihow to reproduce now?20:23
seb128well it works on my install but crash on current iso in kvm20:23
pittioh, trying20:23
seb128just go on an empty workspace, ctrl-L, ssh://someip20:24
pittiindeed, I get that too20:26
rickspencer3pitti: ping20:35
rickspencer3seriously, looks like the iso tracker is getting ticked off20:36
* pitti sends some flowers to rickspencer320:36
rickspencer3but need some testing for amd64 and server?20:36
pittiI pinged the server guys (see #u-devel), they are on it20:38
rickspencer3unr seems to be working fine, and someone else tested it while I was installing :)20:39
pittikubuntu netbook seems to be in some trouble, but by and large I hope that the images work now20:42
rickspencer3I'll try when I get back ... off to a lesson20:43
* rickspencer3 downloads kubuntu netbook iso20:44
* didrocks is going to get some rest now. Have a good evening/day everyone.20:46
pittigood night everyone22:05
seb128pitti, bug #403223 is the gvfs issue22:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 403223 in gvfs "gvfsd-sftp crashed with SIGSEGV in strlen()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40322322:07
seb128pitti, it crashes when the host is not known and it should display a dialog about it22:07
seb128pitti, 'night22:07
chrisccoulsongood night pitti22:13
chrisccoulson(few minutes too late ;))22:13
* chrisccoulson is not looking forward to another early start tomorrow22:26
seb128chrisccoulson, do you get a free day in exchange at least?22:27
chrisccoulsonseb128 - hopefully i'll finish before lunch tomorrow, if everything goes well22:29
chrisccoulsonbut yeah, i will probably get some time off somewhere22:30
brycebleah, launchpad's out of service23:02
lajjrwell not out of service just read only..23:15
lajjrfor an hour.23:15
ajmitchread only, except that you can't view bugs which is slightly annoying23:17
lajjryes I hear you, but upgrade is good.23:18
bryceupgrades are fine, I just wish they didn't _always_ have to happen in the middle of my workday :-/  Esp. on the eve of an alpha release.23:20
lajjr: -/ best done at night early morn..23:20
bryceok I'm done venting :-)23:20
lajjrbryce it is good to vent sometimes.23:21
bryceI am glad they have it available as readonly now.  But launchpadlib scripts still seem to get borked, unfortunately23:22
bryce<class 'launchpadlib.errors.HTTPError'>: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable23:22
mat_tbryce: hi23:25
mat_tbryce: how possible do you think is it to use hw accelleration in the new gdm?23:26
rickspencer3oh man23:26
rickspencer3good morning robert_ancell23:27
robert_ancellrickspencer3, hi rick23:27
mat_thi robert_ancell, rickspencer323:27
brycemat_t, depends23:28
* bryce waves to robert_ancell23:28
mat_trickspencer3: did "oh man" mean "it's way too late to think about it now dude"? ;)23:28
robert_ancellhey bryce23:28
mat_tbryce: go on23:28
rickspencer3mat_t: it just makes me worry about what you have in mind23:29
* rickspencer3 is curious to hear23:29
mat_tbasically I'm wondering if we could use compiz as w-m23:29
mat_twith all compiz effects normally available23:30
brycemat_t, in fact I recall some discussions early on about this23:30
rickspencer3eh ... we can't reliably run compiz on the desktop after log in23:30
brycemat_t, but keep in mind compiz doesn't work for everyone23:31
* rickspencer3 thinks there are still many blacklisted cards23:31
mat_tright, sure23:31
bryceno, not many blacklisted cards anymore, just bugs here and there23:31
rickspencer3robert_ancell: can probably speak to that ;)23:31
robert_ancellrickspencer3, I don't think there are any blacklisted cards in Karmic as I understand how the blacklisting works23:31
rickspencer3that's great!23:32
brycein fact I think with either the current or next compiz update we'll be dropping the last two card blacklists23:32
robert_ancellor that's the start of many bugs :)23:32
robert_ancellbryce, that's already been released to Karmic23:32
bryceit was just a couple 8xx cards23:32
robert_ancellIf you're running the latest Karmic then look at /usr/bin/compiz-manager, BLACKLIST_PCIIDS is empty and WHITELIST contains all the drivers23:33
rickspencer3anyway, sorry to derail your question mat_t23:33
mat_tbryce: so we could have a compiz-run option for most users and a non-composited fallback for example.23:33
rickspencer3I'm not really trying to avoid it23:33
mat_trickspencer3: not to worry, that's why I'm here - to discuss it :)23:34
brycemat_t, well all of these are really !xorg questions to be honest23:34
bryceyes, xorg can do it, the question is more of do you really want it ;-)23:34
rickspencer3does it not take ages to load compiz?23:35
bryceand then it's just a matter of wrestling gdm and compiz into compliance.  Nothing would need altered from xorg's perspective23:35
brycerickspencer3, yep23:35
mat_tbut we do load it at some point anyway23:35
brycemat_t, the other angle that I've seen discussed is using the compositing functionality in metacity23:35
brycewhich gives you less bling but (in theory) better performance and stability23:36
mat_tbasically, I'd like at least for the gdm window to fade in and out23:36
rickspencer3mat_t: does changing the oppacity on a gtk window approach the effect you would like?23:36
mat_trickspencer3: that could do the job23:37
rickspencer3robert_ancell: would that have a hope of working?23:38
robert_ancellthe opacity?23:38
rickspencer3right, like put a timer on that slowly changes the opacity23:38
rickspencer3(I have no idea if this works in gtk, but does in dhtml ;) )23:39
robert_ancellI have never used it but I'd expect so.  Unless you are doing any complex effects standard GTK+ and metacity should be able to do a simple fade23:39
mat_tthat would be cool23:40
* rickspencer3 perhaps I could use quickly to quickly test that out?23:40
mat_trobert_ancell: btw, did you have a chance to look at the comments I left under the gdm-config spec?23:40
robert_ancellmat_t, I didn't see them, will have a look this morning when LP is back up23:41
mat_trobert_ancell: so the plan is to access the config directly from gdm (not sure if that's a new decision though)23:43
robert_ancellI think that's the best way of doing it - the gdm daemon already has a dbus interface to the config23:44
mat_trobert_ancell: also, the recommendation was not to have the bg editable by the user, as it could cause "sudo-user conflict", basically the login screen should remain a "public space"23:45
robert_ancellmat_t, not sure what you mean about sudo-user conflict?23:47
mat_trobert_ancell: so it's easy to imagine a situation where two or more users share a machine, and one puts something in the login screen that others don't like :)23:48
robert_ancellmat_t, sure - then how do we configure the background?  It could have different PK privileges23:49
mat_trobert_ancell: I'd stick with one, neutral background23:49
robert_ancellmat_t, I can just see the endless bug reports now... "Unable to configure login background" :)23:50
mat_trobert_ancell: why?23:50
robert_ancellmat_t, just because it can't be done!23:51
mat_toh I see what you mean23:51
mat_twas the bg easily configurable in the old gdm?23:52
robert_ancellWell, in saying that we just need to point them to a forum post saying how to edit the config file23:52
robert_ancellI'd support not having it easily user configurable - there's no sense in changing the background if you can't change the rest of the theme23:53
TheMusoI thought gdm got its background from the GNOME wallpaper setting, which would be for the gdm user23:54
TheMusoso that should be changable23:54
mat_trobert_ancell: the time difference is crazy between us, it's 12am here :) I've got to head to bed...23:54
robert_ancellmat_t, it sure is!  Thanks for the feedback, see you later23:55
robert_ancellTheMuso, can you log in as the gdm user?23:56
mat_tnp, take care - drop me an email if you need anything!23:56
mat_t'night everyone23:59

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