[00:00] well, guess it's time to meet? [00:00] robert_ancell: TheMuso? [00:00] Hey rickspencer3_. [00:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-07-21 [00:01] so it seemed like it worked well last week, when we only covered highlights? [00:01] yes [00:01] do either of you have agenda items? [00:01] no [00:01] robert_ancell: ? [00:01] no [00:01] alrighty, then [00:02] in terms of action items from last week ... [00:02] ACTION: TheMuso to test accessibility of empathy built with webkit [00:02] * TheMuso tested empathy [00:02] I think I documented it in my activity report. [00:02] * TheMuso checks. [00:02] Yes, I did. [00:03] TheMuso: you mentioned a couple of bugs, yes [00:03] but are you concerned about moving to empathy in Karmic? [00:03] do you feel that the issues can be reasonably addressed, or do you see a significant risk [00:03] TO elaborate, the dialogs and menus are fine, but the contact list is not properly read. The only way to get contact list items read is to open chat windows for each of them, and close the window again. [00:03] Online status combo was not readable properly. [00:03] hmmm === asac__ is now known as asac [00:04] is this a regression for pidgin? [00:04] As far as my knowledge of the architecture goes, I think they can be addressed, but they may end up being bugs in webkit. [00:04] Yes this regresses from the accessible use of pidgin. [00:04] ok [00:04] It also doesn't help that as far as I have checked, there is no expanded orca support for empathy. [00:04] I would like to see release blocking bugs for this [00:04] Ok. [00:04] so that if they are not fixed by, say, beta, we pull empathy and switch back to pidgin [00:05] Ok. [00:05] we should discuss with the rest of the team, but this seems reasonable to me [00:05] thoughts? [00:05] me to. [00:05] robert_ancell: ? [00:05] thoughts [00:06] I agree we should block on these issues [00:06] If we make enough noise people will hopefully step up and fix them [00:06] ACTION: TheMuso to target bugs for empathy accessibility to karmic, and to set to appropriate milestone (beta) [00:06] ok, thanks [00:06] thanks TheMuso [00:06] an announcement ... [00:07] I've arrange for a $50 subsidy us per canonical desktopper so that you can [00:07] expense some bluetooth device ... [00:07] provided that you agree to get it working in Karmic :) [00:07] * TheMuso already has bluetooth hardware that works,. [00:07] this is to encourage wider testing of BT [00:07] TheMuso: great news ... perhaps there is something else that may not work? [00:07] robert_ancell: maybe it's time for you to get a mic - :) [00:08] Well if there is, I can't think of it. I have the two common use cases being a phone and a headset. [00:08] rickspencer3_, I read that before and I will get a mic now :) [00:08] lol [00:08] TheMuso: sounds good [00:08] The only thing that would be useful is DUn/teathering, which is an app issue. [00:09] missing from the wiki is the discussion of making room on the CD [00:09] looks like long term we are going to run out of room [00:09] as we make room for new features from OLS and others, especially [00:09] Yeah. [00:09] the games package was mentioned, as well as Gimp (by me) [00:09] I am proposing to reduce the number of games by default [00:10] robert_ancell: yes, perhaps just the two or three that take up the least room ;) [00:10] There are a lot of packages that ship wav files for sounds. I should look into how they play their sounds, and see if we can't compress them to ogg. [00:10] Not reducing that much!! :) [00:10] well, 1 meg is a significant savings at this point [00:11] lastly, Till has made some progress regarding some printing related issues, also not on the wiki yet [00:11] The games are about 50M decompressed, I'd expect we can halve that [00:12] not sure that impacts either of you [00:12] 50 megs! [00:12] decompressed, I read "compressed" [00:12] 25M compressed (i.e. as .debs) [00:12] * TheMuso hardly prints as it is. [00:12] (TheMuso: dun works in blueman ... though in the end it should work directly in NM/connman yes.) [00:12] in terms of saving space, I'd like to get a little bit systematic about finding targets of opportunity [00:13] sound files is one, as I said. [00:13] I bought a printer the other week and it works great for me [00:13] robert_ancell: you have Till to thank for that [00:13] :) [00:13] tkamppeter, his is impressive indeed [00:13] ok [00:14] that's it [00:14] any other business? [00:14] I'm thinking of attending Linux.conf.au, proposals close this week [00:14] nothing from me. [00:15] robert_ancell: sounds good , but ... [00:15] we general have time off for one conference per year (other than UDS of course ;) ) [00:15] same with supporting travel, etc... [00:15] we should discuss in our next call, though [00:15] sure, will do [00:15] as we can make exceptions for important things [00:16] so that's it for the meeting, you guys can get back to your coffee machines ;) [00:16] there is about 2.6MB of wav files in usr/share/sounds. [00:17] My coffee is a walk of a morning. :) [00:17] TheMuso: you are too healthy [00:17] So if we can get that down somewhat, that would be good. [00:17] my coffee is coffee [00:17] TheMuso: right, plus ogg is open goodness [00:17] Indeed. [00:18] in terms of fitting onto the CD, I'd like to see a bit of a system for figuring it out: [00:18] 1. estimate how much space will we need [00:18] 2. a list of things that can be done to save space [00:18] It all comes down to whether the app needing the sounds can play ogg somehow./ [00:19] Is there a summary of what is on the CD? I was looking for a package list and even finding that is hard [00:19] 3. a decision making process to determine which items from #2 to do [00:19] The seeds are the best place to look./ [00:19] robert_ancell: I think this is hard [00:19] right, you have to look at the seeds [00:19] TheMuso, I've looked at the seeds but I really want the output of the seeds [00:19] I think we can brainstorm the items for #2 [00:19] lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.karmic and lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.karmic [00:20] * rickspencer3_ goes back to updating tutorial for quickly [00:20] ug [00:20] TheMuso, yes but how do I convert those into which packages get pulled in? [00:20] robert_ancell: the ubuntu-archive home dir on the people.ubuntu.com server is probably the best place to find such info. [00:21] I think there is a list in there somewhere. pitti or cjwatson would be able to give you more info. [00:22] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.karmic/desktop ? [00:23] robert_ancell: Which printer did you buy? [00:23] HP Deskjed F4280 printer/scanner [00:23] Was about $60 from office works [00:24] robert_ancell: HP does a good part on it, with their HPLIP drivers and also giving me their printers for testing. [00:25] robert_ancell: Currently I work on the new udev-based Plug'n'Print to make it scale, with a laptop and 10 USB printers connected to it. [00:25] tkamppeter, I bought HP because of what I had heard about HPLIP. The scanning works well but xsane is a terrible interface [00:26] tkamppeter, that's a lot of printing!! [00:26] robert_ancell: In Karmic xsane is about to be replaced. [00:26] by something (hopefully) more sane. [00:26] tkamppeter, printing is great in Ubuntu - I had the father test and he said it was easier than in Windows (and I didn't need a support call) [00:26] :) [00:28] Windows is this old-fashioned Plug'n'Play: You put in the CD and play for hours, rebooting, connecting the printer, rebooting again ... And Linux has Plug'n'Print. [00:36] tkamppeter: lol [00:37] rickspencer3_: but its so true. [00:37] TheMuso: I wouldn't know [00:37] I haven't used Windows since I worked at Microsoft [00:38] well, not entirely true, I installed Windows in a vm so I could sniff the USB interacton with this little photo viewer keychain thing I bought at Fry's [00:38] Right. I remember setting printers up for people and having to do a similar procedure to what tkamppeter outline. [00:38] outlined [00:39] I tell this story all the time ... [00:40] about a year ago, I bought the very first eeepc model, like the first week they were out [00:40] got ubuntu running on it ... I plugged it into the usb printer, and went to get a chair so I could sit down and configure the printer ... [00:41] in the moments I was gone, it had configured itself! there was a little pop-up: "your printer is ready" (or similar) [00:44] Ubuntu is at the point where if things work, they work very very well. [00:45] so that doesn't surprise me. [00:51] TheMuso: and if they fail, they fail in spectacular ways? [00:51] ajmitch: Depends on the hardware I think. [00:51] Audio for example, is very much a mixed bag./ === rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3-afk === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [06:10] Good morning [07:16] mmm, my panel has now two different volume applets. Is that expected? why are they different? [07:16] * ara is running karmic [07:17] ara: it's a known problem indeed [07:17] but not entirely trivial to solve [07:18] pitti, can you provide some background (or a bug number), please [07:19] ara: you'll still see the classical "applet" with the horizontal slider, from gnome-applets [07:19] but recently, pulseaudio started to have a notification area icon as well [07:19] pitti, I do [07:19] we somehow need to remove the former on upgrades [07:19] disabling the former by default should be easy [07:20] pitti, which one are we going to remove? the gnome one or the pulseaudio one? [07:20] the gnome one, I think [07:20] mmm, the pulseaudio one does not mute on double click, which is a really nice feature === WelshDragon is now known as Fluffles [07:52] Note that the pulseaudio one is provided by gnome-media. [08:10] * robert_ancell is going mad battling glib+dbus+policykit [08:11] hey robert_ancell [08:11] hey pitti [08:11] robert_ancell: what are you working on? gdm config? [08:11] robert_ancell: btw, I was gonna ask you about that [08:12] pitti, yes - I figure we need to have some PolicyKit in gdm to control writing the configuration [08:12] ask away [08:12] robert_ancell: I assume that /etc/gdm/custom.conf is just a backwards-compatibility crutch, and it should actually be configured through gconf? [08:12] robert_ancell: can we use the existing PK magic in gconf for that? [08:12] pitti, No, it appears to be actual configuration though why it hasn't been migrated to gconf I don't know [08:13] otherwise we'd need a PK service to gdm itself to write custom.conf [08:13] hm, that's bad [08:13] there is a dbus service to read and write that config but you need to be root to use it [08:13] oh, there is already? nice [08:13] pitti, I believe they had trouble having a daemon running gconf which is why it ended up like that [08:13] then the PKification shouldn't be too bad [08:14] robert_ancell: ah, I thought they'd use it for the greeter session [08:14] but the greeter might not even run for autologin [08:14] pitti, or so I thought... Are you a PK expert? I'm trying to gather up information to work out how to use it. It seems very intolerant of my errors [08:15] robert_ancell: expert is too much, but I did use it myself in jockey [08:15] but I only ever implemented it myself in Python, not C [08:16] although with the libpolkit-gobject stuff it should actually be much easier in C than with the raw d-bus API in Python [08:17] robert_ancell: so by and large, you define a new privilege in /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/org.gnome.gdm.policy (say "org.gnome.gdm.set_autologin") [08:17] The current problem I have is passing a GError on authentication failure causes the error "arguments to dbus_message_new_error() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_error_name (error_name)" failed in file dbus-message.c line 1211". I have no idea why is wrong with my GError [08:17] allow_any =auth_admin should do [08:17] pitti, which has to be in lowercase I found out [08:17] right [08:18] robert_ancell: did you initialize the GError before? [08:18] (or set NULL if it initializes one for itself) [08:18] I usually see this if doing something like [08:18] GError e; [08:18] Yes, it's a standard GError - looking through the dbus code it gets the GError "name" and checks that is "asd.asdasd.asd" or similar [08:18] call_function (..., &e) [08:19] But I can't find out what I'm supposed to do to make a dbus-compatible GError [08:19] hm, that's the part I didn't do in Python then [08:20] might be worth stealing some code from existing PK services, such as ConsoleKit or devkit-disks [08:20] robert_ancell: do you have your current code somewhere? [08:20] Yes, been looking though those [08:20] sure [08:20] * pitti takes a look [08:21] http://paste.ubuntu.com/224142/ [08:22] hm, polkit_authority_check_authorization() doesn't even take a GError? [08:22] So it fails in dbus_g_method_return_error [08:23] uh, I'm afraid I never touched that [08:23] robert_ancell: does it get passed "NULL" or so? [08:23] good morning there [08:23] bonjour seb128 [08:23] hey robert_ancell pitti [08:24] hey seb128 [08:24] robert_ancell, btw I chatted with rick yesterday who said you found polkit complex [08:24] pitti, no, the printf about works [08:24] robert_ancell, did you look at polkit1 or the previous version? [08:25] seb128, I'm just looking at the Ubuntu packages and the latest docs. What is the difference? [08:26] hey pitti, seb128 and robert_ancell [08:26] robert_ancell, I don't use polkit but patches for using the new one are usually dropping some hundred lines of code [08:26] robert_ancell, policykit-1 is the new one [08:27] seb128, what is the Karmic installed version? [08:27] robert_ancell: no idea about the dbus_g_method_return_error(), I'm afraid [08:27] I see libpolkit2 [08:27] pitti, thanks for looking [08:27] oh, indeed, that's policykit 0.9 code [08:27] robert_ancell, we have both because things are not migrated yet to policykit-1 [08:28] robert_ancell: in polkit-1, you don't need to do anything on the client side, and the server-side code is much easier [08:28] http://people.freedesktop.org/~david/polkit-0.92-newdocs/ [08:28] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/PolicyKit/tree/docs/PORTING-GUIDE [08:30] robert_ancell, btw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/LoginExperience too is worth reading if you didn't yet [08:31] polkit-1 looks a lot better. [08:31] robert_ancell, doing the change to add the option menu should be easy enough and would be the place where to have the autologin option or a way to start the gdmsetup dialog [08:31] robert_ancell, right ;-) that's why I mentioned it, I was not sure if you were looking at the new version [08:32] The PolKit web presence could do with a tidy up :) [08:32] robert_ancell: yeah, it got much cleaner in the rewrite [08:33] before that, the client had to do all the juggling to get authentication, etc. [08:34] seb128, do you know if the design team wants to have a password prompt when setting the default user? [08:35] I guess there has to be one [08:35] you mean have to enter your password to change the default autologin user? [08:35] yes [08:35] yes probably or anybody could do it on the login screen [08:36] it needs to ask for an admin user, and her password, yes [08:36] this also means that we need to start polkit-gnome in the gdm session [08:36] yeah [08:39] I'm off for an hour for some errands, bbl [08:39] pitti, see you [08:40] I get a conffile prompt on jaunty->karmic upgrade for gdm/custom.conf - is that a known issue? [08:42] mvo_, no, custom.conf didn't exist in jaunty [08:43] seb128: this is a automatic install, I did not do any customization with it [08:43] seb128: what does normally create it? [08:43] (image was created with ubuntu-vm-builder) [08:44] mvo_, it's shipped with the new gdm in karmic [08:44] mvo_, we used to have a gdm.custom-conf in jaunty [08:44] seb128: its custom.conf, I just checked the log [08:44] mvo_, well it was gdm.conf-custom in jaunty [08:46] seb128: right, it seems like its doing some magic in the preinst that may well confuse the dpkg conffile prompt code [08:46] mvo_, the preinst code just rename the file [08:46] if [ -f /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom ]; then [08:46] echo "Renaming /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom to /etc/gdm/custom.conf" >&2 [08:46] mv /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom /etc/gdm/custom.conf [08:46] fi [08:46] dpkg --compare-versions "$2" le-nl "2.26.1-0ubuntu5"; then [08:47] mvo_, ^ basically [08:47] I see a echo '[daemon]' >> /etc/gdm/custrom.conf here too [08:47] mvo_, that's only if there is an autologin setting to migrate [08:47] and there is a typo in the next line, going to fix this one [08:47] good morning everyone [08:48] hey ch [08:48] hey chrisccoulson [08:48] hey chrisccoulson [08:48] hey seb128, mvo_ [08:48] seb128: I have a look why I get the prompt [08:48] but I promise I did not do customization :) [08:49] mvo_, ok, ignore the typo on the echo $settings line [08:49] mvo_, did you enable autologin in the installer? [08:49] seb128: no [08:49] ok, so the echo lines should not be used [09:00] seb128: is gdm in bzr? [09:00] mvo_, yes, why? [09:01] seb128: to get rid of my conffile prompt :) [09:01] mvo_, apt-get source gdm should tell you ;-) [09:01] mvo_, what do you want to change? [09:01] mvo_, don't worry I'm just curious about what is the bug ;-) [09:03] hey seb128 - i finished the g-s-d update last night, including the fix for the disk space warning that seems to be annoying people [09:03] chrisccoulson, hey good, I was just looking to the sponsoring bug but it didn't change [09:03] seb128: so it seems like gdm checks for gdm.conf-custom and (unconditionally) moves it to the new custom.conf - but it has a different md5sum from the custom.conf that is shipped in new-gdm. because it happens in preinst dpkg thinks the user has modified the file [09:03] i had to make a small change to that though, as i noticed a couple of bugs ;) [09:03] mvo_, oh, how do we fix those sort of issues? [09:03] later all [09:03] seb128: I'm not sure what is ideal, I guess not moving if the old gdm.cutom-conf was not modified [09:04] seb128 - i pushed the changes to my own branch for now. i can push them to ubuntu-desktop unless you want to review the changes first [09:04] seb128: morning [09:04] chrisccoulson, is there many changes? it seemed mostly a .install update a patch from git [09:04] seb128: but that would still leave users with a customized one with a conffile prompt [09:04] chrisccoulson, ie those should be fine for ubuntu-desktop directly [09:04] davmor2, hi [09:05] mvo_, which means the majority of users, almost everybody used gdmsetup one day [09:05] seb128 - yeah, that's basically it. i had to make a small change to the patch from git though, as i noticed some small bugs [09:05] i'll send those upstream today [09:05] seb128: its way to difficult to do this kind of stuff IMO, just look at http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling [09:05] seb128: gnome-codec-install issue was confirmed yesterday by sbeattie and fader_ on #u-testing [09:05] mvo_, I told pitti that we should keep using gdm.conf-custom as naming [09:05] seb128: you think so? I never used it :) but yeah, if its a big portion, then the solution is not good enough [09:05] davmor2, good for them? [09:06] I thought I'd added details for it but that was in a previous attept to write the bug that kept timing out sorry:) [09:06] davmor2, we get some hundred bugs confirmed every day, that's useful work but not worth mentioning on IRC [09:06] davmor2, not even sure what bug you are talking about there [09:06] seb128: but the code in the wiki page does not move between package AFAICS [09:06] mvo_, anybody who enabled timed login, autologin, changed the theme, etc [09:06] * mvo_ nods [09:07] bug 402773 [09:07] Launchpad bug 402773 in rhythmbox "Karmic: gnome-codec-installer is not finding mp3 but rather looking for input-selector" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402773 [09:07] seb128: yeah, I'm sure that are many people [09:07] davmor2, well the bug is basically useful, it doesn't describe the issue or what to do to trigger it [09:07] I wonder if we could just ship the same file in the new gdm (with all the header text) so that the md5sums of the original match [09:08] davmor2, would be useful if rather than confirming bugs people could describe what they do to trigger the error [09:08] * mvo_ scratches his head [09:08] mvo_, we used to distro patch the gdm.custom-conf to undo upstream change for that purpose before [09:08] mvo_, sometime conffile handling is ridiculously complex [09:09] ++ [09:09] seb128: Yes again sorry for that I got tied and lp kept timing out on the bug I wrote manually so in the end triggered ubuntu-bug in the hope that lp would accept the report [09:09] we could not ship one in the package but create it on the fly (if there is none already) [09:10] davmor2, anyway IRC confirmation are not so useful, could you rather reply to the asked details on the bug? [09:10] davmor2, I don't doubt it's an issue for some user but they don't say what they try to play, how, etc [09:11] seb128: I have. would it be useful to add a screenshot of the end result too? [09:11] mvo_, we don't need to ship one at all, that's only a file for user config [09:11] hmm are there supposed to be scripts installed into /etc/pm/sleep.d? i thought the correct place for all package-managed pm-utils scripts was /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d [09:11] davmor2, you are not new to bug reporting right? anything which make easy to trigger the bug or explain it correctly ... [09:11] davmor2, it's not complicated, a bug just need to be clearly described, ie have easy steps explaining it or a screenshot if you fail to describe those [09:11] ie [09:11] * start rhythmbox [09:11] * add a mp3 [09:12] * double click on it [09:12] or whatever you are doing [09:12] neither the description nor the error are clear in that bug [09:13] "is actually looking for gstreamer input-selector" [09:13] how do you figure that? [09:13] is that an error? something listed in g-c-i [09:13] [09:13] hyperair, not sure you are on the right channel for that question [09:14] seb128: hmm whoops. which channel should i be on then? -devel? [09:14] well you can try [09:14] I mean I've no clue about pm-utils [09:14] and I guess it's the case for most of desktopers [09:14] you can wait for pitti to come back or try another channel [09:17] alright. [09:29] slomo, hi [09:30] seb128: what is the new gdmsetup called - is there one ? [09:30] mvo_, no there is none but robert_ancell is working on writting one [09:30] ok, he will have to make sure it works without a custom.conf :) [09:30] mvo_, ;-) [09:32] seb128: I think we should be fine with http://paste.ubuntu.com/224167 - unless I miss something, but gdm still starts without a custom.conf for me [09:32] seb128: I just tested 2.26 -> 2.27 and no conffile prompt for me anymore (but for a really meaningful test I have to wait until its in the archive and the auto-upgrade tester can make its job) [09:32] mvo_, that's fine with me [09:32] mvo_, do you want to do the upload now? [09:32] seb128: ok, I will commit and we can upload after the freeze [09:32] ok good [09:33] mvo_, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gdmconfig [09:33] hah, got my climbing equipment rented now [09:33] mvo_, if you want to add a note there [09:34] seb128: should I fix the typo (gdm.conf.conf along the way?) [09:34] pitti, you go climbing? sounds dangerous, be careful we need you ;-) [09:34] mvo_, yes please and upload then ;-) [09:34] mvo_: perhaps we should not make custom.conf a conffile in the first place? [09:34] mvo_, you don't want to clean the autologin option at each upgrade [09:34] pitti: yeah, I currently just removed it from being shipped [09:35] seb128: just a fixed rope route, not _that_ dangerous :) [09:35] ups [09:35] pitti, ^ [09:35] pitti, good ;-) [09:35] * seb128 hugs pitti [09:35] seb128: "clean the option"? [09:35] pitti, well if custom.conf is not a conffile it will be overwritten at each upgrade [09:35] how so? [09:35] pitti, better to just not ship a custom.conf at all [09:35] the migration removes the old gdm.conf-custom [09:36] seb128: right, I don't particularly mind [09:36] pitti, if you have a custom.conf in the gdm binary upgrade will install the new version on disk no? [09:36] the postinst coudl create one for having a template for the user to change [09:36] seb128: that would be a conffile [09:36] seb128: hi :) [09:36] mvo_: perhaps we should not make custom.conf a conffile in the first place? [09:36] pitti, I'm not sure to follow the discussion ;-) [09:37] seb128: right; it's currently a conffile, which causes the dpkg prompt [09:37] slomo, hey, is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/402221 a known issue? [09:37] Ubuntu bug 402221 in totem "[Karmic ] GstDecodeBin2: This appears to be a text file" [Undecided,New] [09:37] so if we make it a normal config file, handled by postinst, we avoid the prompt [09:37] pitti, ah right, that would work too [09:37] though I'm in favor of as little postinst work as possible [09:37] seb128: operationally it's pretty much the same, but providing a default is easier for admins to change, IMHO [09:37] right [09:37] ie if having no config in the package and no postinst magic is possible the better [09:37] it's possible [09:38] we could still have an example config in /usr/share/something [09:38] but right, once Robert implements the GUI for configuring gdm, we would have had the same problem again [09:38] seb128: *nod* [09:38] pitti, why? there is no conffile prompt if you don't have a conffile [09:38] is custom.conf would be an user written data [09:38] not something managed by a package [09:39] seb128: right, I meant "with the current version' [09:39] i. e. it doesn't matter how the file is named, we'd have the same problem with a conffile [09:39] -> conffile is bad [09:39] right [09:39] so let's not ship any custom.conf at all [09:39] and let the gdmsetup write one [09:40] mvo_, seb128: so we should fix .install to instlal /etc/gdm/custom.conf into /usr/share/gdm/examples/ ? [09:40] +1 [09:40] pitti: sure, we can do that too [09:40] seb128: one moment [09:40] * mvo_ changes bzr [09:40] mvo_: ah, you already changed it; nevermind [09:41] well just change the rules line to a mv one [09:41] easy enough ;-) [09:41] omph, nasty typo, thanks for fixing [09:41] yeah, just go ahead [09:41] seb128: not known but interesting, thanks :) [09:41]