[04:40] sebsebseb called the ops in #ubuntu (an0nym0us_w0rm spamming here again with two lines) [06:49] hi kuru [06:50] oh this is where rejects get forwarded.. heh [06:50] yes [06:50] this is where the people who can't follow the channels guidelines are forwarded [06:50] I've always been happy to use Ubuntu, not only because it's a great distribution, but because the community didn't have an attitude about helping people. [06:50] This would be the first time I encounter someone who exhibits this arrogant view of what constitutes as relevant and irrelevant. [06:51] that's great news, but however you did have an attitude so you can't be part of that community at this time [06:51] ikonia, you must come from a Debian background.. cause that sounds just like that. [06:51] kuru: it's clear that you are not able to disscuss this at the moment hence why you also sent me pm's with "whatever" in them, so I'd request you come back in 24 hours if you wish to discuss your ban [06:51] An innocent question that could be relevant, as it would entail Ubuntu usage was dismissed. [06:52] kuru: please come back in 24 hours [06:52] heh [06:53] kuru: if there is nothing else you need, I request you leave the channel and come back at a time when you can discuss the ban (assuming you want to) with a bit more objectivity [06:54] !idle | kuru [06:54] kuru: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. [06:55] I believe I am being as objective and civil as possible. But, as you wish. [09:06] /msg nickserv register [09:06] oops [09:06] soz [09:07] * nalioth shakes his head . . . [09:08] didn't we just lift his ban? [09:31] Mamarok: yes [11:02] any suggestions on how to deal with emery, he's blindly pushing ./configure && make && make install to people [11:03] I have a real problem with this being blindly pushed to people [11:03] advice welcome [11:11] in #u? [11:12] ah, yes. [11:12] Not cool. [11:13] I don't think so [11:13] he seems to have clamed down, but I'm more unhappy about anyone blindly configure make make installing stuff as a suggestion [11:14] Considering his first question to the channel is "whats the command to see how much free space I have" (df) yeah. [11:14] especially because of that, that is. [11:15] not good [11:20] indus is becoming very annoying [11:21] and is coming here! [11:21] it's done [11:21] he's been like this for over a day now and had a lot of slack cut [11:22] Howdy indus. [11:22] ok i need to be back in ubuntu [11:22] people need help ther [11:22] indus: That's fine. We need you to change your attitude in #ubuntu. [11:22] ya and some ops do too dont they [11:23] anyways, ill just shut up and be back thank you [11:23] indus: Perhaps, but you should worry about yourself, let otherpeople worry about everyone else. [11:23] why was i banned btw? [11:24] and its in my nature to help others, why are you telling me to worry about myself and not others [11:24] i didnt learn that from my parents , you did maybe [11:24] You were forwarded here so we can discuss your behavior, as it's not conducive to support. [11:24] i was banned because i challenged ikonia thats it [11:25] i was never disrescpectful to any user ever [11:25] That's not it. But if that's what you choose to see, thats your prerogative. [11:25] nor to any mod [11:25] then tell me what is it [11:25] I've been trying to. [11:26] Even if we disregard your attitude, you've been causing unnecessary chatter. [11:26] chatter? [11:26] lines of text [11:26] ya ill cut down on it [11:27] can i please go back [11:27] also, whom do i complain about the ops behaviour? who is higher up than you? [11:27] !appeals [11:27] If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page. [11:27] whoaa [11:27] indus: I'll explain why you where forwaded here [11:28] ok i have been waiting [11:28] sorry - I was just cleaning up some other things [11:28] ikonia: ok i accept this apology [11:28] was wondering why you were not here to answer [11:29] listen sir, if i made you angry iam sorry, but i need to be there cos i love helping others [11:29] your advice in general while you have been in #ubuntu in general is a bit hit and miss, my first request was that you think about what you are asking people to do / try - and if you're not sure, best to not try [11:29] i dont want anything else to say [11:29] that was point 1 [11:29] the second point was the random noise you make in the channel, you've been asked a few times to try to cut back on it, I made that request to you just a few minutes ago in channel [11:29] that's point 2 [11:30] ill cut back on the random noise [11:30] the 3rd and final point was your attempt to provoke people - I explained why setting up a web server in ubuntu was NOT offtopic for the channel, and instead of ackowledging it, you tried to make a smart mouthed response back - more so after I'd just told you to stop being silly [11:31] that attitude in uncceptable, and coupled with the other two points listed, got you forwaded here as I was unprepared to discuss it in the main channel [11:31] ok 3rd point is more a discussion i thought, but i guess it was wrong channel [11:31] it's not a discussion [11:31] you asked if it was offtopic [11:31] I said no - and explained why [11:31] you CHOSE to make a smart mouthed response to me [11:31] you didn't ask for a discussion, you chose to try to be rude to me [11:32] well, the user seems not experienced in setting up apache, and i thought you should have told him to read more on that first? [11:32] after I'd just warned you a few lines above [11:32] anyways iam sorry [11:32] indus: I was telling him how to setup apache - as soon as the debugging we had gone through showed it was a web application and not a compiled application as you where blindly trying to get him to compiled (hence my point 1 about bad advice) [11:32] ikonia: it was NOT ME who suggested that first [11:33] indus: you carried it on [11:33] you blindly kept telling him to compile it [11:33] but that was only point 1 [11:33] it was a combination of all 3 that have now got you on a temporary ban to think about how you behave and present data to the channel [11:33] i didnt keep telling him, i told him one time the steps to compile, it was the others who did that [11:34] i told him generic steps [11:34] exactly [11:34] i infact asked him to see the read me [11:34] blindly generic steps with no understand of what they did or how they would effect the system [11:34] but since you took it up, i kept quiet [11:34] but as I said it was all 3 points - not 1 [11:35] i didnt take it up after you did [11:35] no - you chose to tell me it was offtopicc [11:35] and then chose to make smart mouthed responses [11:35] ya that i still believe , but ill let it go [11:35] if you can explain how setting up apache on ubuntu from the repos is offtopic I'm willing to listen [11:36] anyways , i want to tell you the first point you raised though [11:36] there are many on the irc and in the forums who have hit and miss responses, and so do i , but as i keep saying, this is voluntary help and telling this to me is just plain rude [11:37] i have helped a lot of people newbies here [11:37] you've also given a lot of poor advice [11:37] it's not a crime - hence why I told you to think about what you offer to people [11:37] thanks sir for telling me [11:38] whenever i give poor advice, people tell me why that is and i always read more on it and correct it [11:38] so iam definitely offended by this [11:38] i will try not to help on things i dont know off [11:38] I can't help that if you find that offensive [11:38] but i will always google and give them links [11:39] well, its offensive if you are human [11:39] you're not listening - 3 points brough you to this channel - one of them was a request to think more about the advice you offer [11:39] If you're not in a position to verify whether those links are good info or not, just bow out from that support request. Someone else will answer it. [11:39] i have understood 1st advice [11:40] i told you i will try not to help [11:40] on matters which are not to my knowledge [11:40] that's sensible, [11:40] no-one knows everything, and everyone makes mistakes, don't be afraid of making a mistake [11:40] i just dont understand why you people are so impolite [11:40] or rude [11:41] i even agree to 3rd poing [11:41] t [11:41] sorry [11:41] indus: that's a poor statment coming from someone being removed from a channel for offering smart mouthed responses to polite converstation [11:41] if you could explain how someone has been impoilte to you I'd be happy to clarify [11:41] well, nvm [11:42] this is an argument i can never win, i have seen how much different the irc policy is from the forums [11:42] in your passion for perfection, you walk over quite a few innocent users [11:42] it's not a passion for perfection - as I've just said everyone makes mistakes [11:43] however your smart mouth you can control - and that is your personal responsbility to control [11:43] as is your random chatter [11:43] well,iam learning [11:43] random chatter will continue ,just keeps things light and friendly, but ill cut it down [11:43] everyone is, as I've said - everyone makes mistakes, and shouldn't be afraid of trying to help [11:44] random chatter won't continue [11:44] indus: you seem to be under the impression you make the channels policy [11:44] well, can i? [11:44] no [11:44] anyways, if you wish i will just stick to support [11:44] that is what I requested [11:45] I suggest you take a few hours away from #ubuntu to think about what has been discussed in here then come back and we'll look at removing your ban [11:45] i have thought about it [11:45] take a few hours [11:45] i agree to all 3 points [11:45] take a few hours [11:45] please let me in [11:46] why a few hours? [11:46] Please take a few hours to properly digest the information that has been discussed in here and to make sure you are confident you can abide by what has been laid out [11:46] indus: a few hours because I don't have confidence in what you're saying - I'd rather you took a few hours away to really think and understand what has been said as I think your just saying "yes" to anything to get back into the channel now [11:47] I'm not talking days, just a few hours [11:47] dont worry, iam not emotional or anything [11:47] thats fine, a few hours won't hurt then [11:47] i agree to the chatter yes [11:47] indus: Are you aware of the IRC Guidelines? Seems like it'd be a good document for you to read, if you're unaware of the IRC workflow/etc [11:47] oh man [11:47] ok bye [11:48] thank you Flannel [11:48] aah cool [11:48] auto redirection [11:48] so when can i check again [11:48] ahh you tried to ban evade [11:48] indus: Are you aware of the IRC Guidelines? Seems like it'd be a good document for you to read, if you're unaware of the IRC workflow/etc, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines [11:48] evade? i just check whatmessage i get when i join [11:48] ok [11:48] iam quite new to irc [11:49] ok [11:49] indus: Take a gander at the guidelines and then let them sink in for a few hours, like was previously recommended. [11:49] ok i have a question [11:49] who selects the ubuntu ops? [11:50] the operators team [11:50] and the irc council [11:50] are you all industry experts? [11:50] no [11:50] mixed levels and experience [11:50] some very specialist in specific areas [11:50] a good rounded group [11:51] (in my personal opinion I should say0 [11:51] 0 [11:51] ) [11:51] ikonia: i have one thing to say> why didnt you ask me to discuss on ubuntu-ops instead of ban? i would have listened if you said, i would like to discuss your contribution or something [11:51] Some of us are obviously still learning how to use the keyboard. [11:52] indus: because you ignored what I said in the channel [11:52] and had a smart response for everything I said in the channel [11:52] yes true [11:54] why only a temp ban? [11:54] one rule in irc says , dont argue with the mods? is that correct? [11:54] ubuntu irc i mean [11:54] no, you're welcome to disscuss stuff [11:55] it's only a temp ban as there is no reason to ban you perm - just explain the problem and let you resolve it [11:55] the plan isn't to ban you and keep you out of the channel [11:55] just to stop any problems in the channel [11:56] indus: does that make sense / [11:56] ? [11:56] Flannel: yes it's clear I am tryig to learn the shift key) [11:56] there is a lot to say, but i fear its a losing argument :) [11:56] mod is god generally no? [11:57] not at all [11:57] everyone (myself included) makes mistakes and nothing is set in stone [11:57] In #ubuntu-mozillateam, asac said: !no ff35 is Firefox 3.5 Final is available for Jaunty by installing the package firefox-3.5 and firefox-3.5-gnome-support | FF3.5 is referred to as Shiretoko on your UI, see http://is.gd/1reB3 for an explanation | Hardy & Intrepid: http://is.gd/1jkNY [11:57] do ops take advice from users ever? [11:57] indus: if something is bothering you or you feel it's wrong, there is no problem discussing it, as long as it is a discussion and not smart mouth responses [11:57] indus: all the time [11:58] constantly [11:58] i thought ubuntu irc was a community thing unlike other rooms [11:58] ignore the above [11:58] gnomefreak: done [11:58] im trying to remember how alias works [11:58] why is it that the forums are much friendlier in tone than the irc? [11:58] !ff35 =~ s/-3.5/-3.5 and firefox-3.5-gnome-support/ [11:58] I'll remember that Flannel [11:58] indus: irc is "fast and flowing" and while it is friendly can seem a little more "two the point" [11:59] indus: eg: things like chatting in the room makes it harder people just wanting support to follow and ask questions in [11:59] ikonia: thanks [11:59] indus: hence why the topic is support discussion only [11:59] hmm is this the right place to discuss the 3 points you raised i wonder [11:59] you're welcome to discuss it and others are around also to give opinions/comment so you won't get a one sided view point from myself [11:59] ya [12:00] so start from 3rd again [12:00] bazhang: and Flannel are around and I think gnomefreak is around, so if they are not busy they may be able to offer an opinion also [12:00] im here [12:00] gnomefreak: I got the ff35 thing done [12:00] when me or some other user starts random chatter , mods advice to stick to the point, and i believe we all listen [12:00] cosmicchaos is banned in +1 only? [12:00] Flannel: thanks [12:00] bazhang: yes [12:00] ikonia, thanks [12:01] * gnomefreak cant remember how to log into bot (i am already but asac isnt) [12:01] ikonia: ok scrolling [12:02] gnomefreak, @login [12:02] indus: yup, that sound about right [12:02] indus: most people listen when asked to keep to the topic [12:03] ok i came in late i really dont see anything that this is about [12:03] gnomefreak: ahhh yes, you did join well past [12:03] what an appropriate ident [12:03] +1 [12:04] if you give me 5-10 minutes i will be here for a while. [12:05] * Flannel was going to give him a little more rope to hang himself with. [12:05] I'll deal with it in pm [12:05] rather than let it continue [12:05] سخق [12:05] ? [12:05] sorry laptop over heat [12:06] no problem [12:06] and some font issue [12:06] did u get my last message? what was it? [12:06] is there anything you need from us or want to discuss more ? [12:06] of course, i wanted to state some points better/ or offer some advice if thats ok [12:07] you're welcome to discuss it, sure [12:08] ill start from 3rd point> 3.Random chatter - yes i do it and many other do, well thats why mods are there anyways to warn or advice to stop it,and i and others iam sure always do cut it down and get back to point [12:09] 1st point i agree anyway, better not to advice than give bad advice [12:09] 2nd point i keep forgetting [12:11] the second point was the random chatter, the 3rd point was your smart mouth comments [12:11] you should use better choice of words instead of telling some one whose only intention is to help. Telling me your advice is mostly hit and miss is equivalent to telling me,my contributiion is of no significance [12:11] i dont claim to be an expert do i [12:12] i didn't say any of that [12:12] so that is why it s rude and uncalled for [12:12] huh what? [12:12] I asked you to think about the advice you give out as it can some times be miss-leading/wrong [12:12] sorry man, you explicitly also stated that point [12:12] and I never said anything about your contribution being of no significance [12:12] what you said with hit and miss is as good as saying that [12:13] and I also complained about your smart mouth attitude [12:13] no it's not [12:13] it's saying your advice can sometimes be wrong and miss-leading, please think about it before you give it out [12:13] indus, trying to help you out/ guide you is not rude. [12:13] that's nothing to do with your contirbution being poor [12:13] your attitude/smart mouth - is poor and I'll make no attempt to hide that [12:13] let me search for chat history ,stay right ther [12:13] fantastic, log quoting [12:14] just what's needed to take a discussion forward [12:14] indus, there really is no need to drag this out. [12:14] so when you feel you dont want to agree, you say iam dragging it [12:14] nvm now [12:14] not at all [12:14] get your logs [12:14] ill try check in a few hours [12:14] no no [12:14] do it now [12:14] its ok [12:14] I'll get the lgos for you [12:15] indus, no that is not my point at all. [12:15] hang on [12:15] !logs [12:15] bye ,enjoy reading the logs [12:15] ill check back after a few hours [12:15] indus, people point out others' errors all the time, including those in this channel [12:15] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/22/%23ubuntu-ops.html [12:15] thats not really helping you. differetn ops will send you to banner [12:15] there ou go - there is the logs [12:16] unless banner is here and others know what is going on [12:16] indus: that's the log of this channel, please show me where I said your contirbution is insignficant [12:16] ikonia you will not understand my point because you dont want to [12:16] leave it [12:17] chck for hit and miss in the logs [12:17] bye [12:17] your advice is hit and miss [12:17] indus, others have seen the behaviour as well [12:17] sometimes you get it right, other times you don't [12:17] thanks again for pointing that out again [12:17] as I said in the lgos - it's not a crime, it's a request to think more abou tit [12:17] why are you thanking us for it - then calling us for telling you about it ? [12:17] i will appeal against this , even if its a temp ban [12:17] s/abou tit/about it [12:18] and i expect you not to gang up [12:18] ???? [12:18] if i tell you, the irc guidelines can be a little more relaxed, will you listen? no [12:18] no-one is ganging up - your logic doesn't make sense [12:18] indus: im not even caught up but i will help you if someone catches me up [12:19] indus: You havent told us that though. You were going to give us suggestions, but you then proceeded to discuss your ban. [12:19] you are complaining that you where called out on 3 things, one of them was giving out hit and miss advice [12:19] you then thank us for doing this [12:19] how can you thank us for something your complaining about ? [12:19] Flannel: gnomefreak, why dont you guys take a moment (or afew hours) to think about this and we can discuss this later [12:19] ikonia: and you [12:19] ahh the smart mouth is back [12:20] sorry missed [12:20] indus: ok - your ban is now a day [12:20] :) [12:20] come back tommorow, and I'll think it through some more as you suggested [12:20] see this is what i am saying, why only the users,why not the ops too? [12:20] we'll discuss it tommorow, [12:20] indus: I'm following your suggestion [12:20] indus: I'll take a day to think it through [12:20] lets discuss it then, [12:20] indus: i cant think about it. not sure what im thinking about [12:21] @mark #ubuntu-ops indus stupid attitude, trys to be clever, hit and miss advice, offtopic chatter [12:21] gnomefreak: "it" think about "it" [12:21] "it" is the issue that i came in late to [12:21] also, ubottu is broken. Fix it. [12:21] there's that "it" again. [12:21] lol fix it [12:21] super slow [12:22] think about fixing it [12:22] ikonia: not slow, reset by peer. [12:22] Flannel: it loged on out a rest too much non sence [12:22] oh yes, it went [12:22] heh [12:22] and packages is down too, sigh. [12:24] @mark #ubuntu-ops indus stupid attitude, trys to be clever, hit and miss advice, offtopic chatter [12:25] false start! [12:27] is someone fuffing with it? [12:28] elky: i edited it but someone used it after me [12:28] indus: how can we help now [12:29] !idle | indus [12:29] ikonia: That won't work! [12:29] I've just seen [12:30] it's gone again [12:30] I'm not sharp today [12:30] indus: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. [12:30] indus: #ubuntu-ops has a non-idle policy, if there is nothing you need from us, we request that you leave the channel and come back in 24 hours when we will re-dicuss your ban [12:32] can someone remove indus please [12:32] elky: ^ [12:33] indus, is there something i can help you with? [12:34] bot's on it's way [12:34] tsimpson: thanks [12:34] indus, if you're not responsive, please do not idle here. [12:36] asac branch has been pushed [12:36] damn [12:36] gnomefreak do you need irc help today / [12:36] ? [12:36] I need shift key help as you can see [12:36] * Flannel doesn't want to find out what he needs help with. [12:36] !away > imlad-away [12:37] ikonia: yeah too many channels [12:38] خخحس [12:38] oops sorry [12:38] auto join [12:51] for the log - indus now pm'ing me to be let back in - I have requested additional conversation in here because of the accusations of being rude being made [12:52] ok [12:52] dont mean to anger anyone [12:52] indus: the 24 hours is not up, please revisit this channel in 24 hours - at your request, we'll take 24 hours to review the situation [12:52] i agree to abide by all the channel rules [12:52] indus: that time has now passed [12:53] please revisit the channel in 24 hours where we will review your ban [12:53] what do you mean review? [12:53] indus: and your request did not anger anyone, I just requested it in here for clarify [12:53] clarifty [12:53] indus: we'll review lifting your ban in 24 hours after time to think about the discussion in this channel has sunk in [12:53] can you make it back to a few hours ? [12:53] no [12:54] ok nvm [12:54] 24 hours [12:54] ill check back later [12:54] that was a result of your smart mouth again [12:54] no [12:54] check back in 24 hours [12:54] i hope i win this one [12:55] there is nothing to win [12:55] indus: what do you mean win? this isn't "us vs you", no one's trying to "win" [12:55] you either chose to accept the channels guidelines and adjust your attitude, or you don't [12:55] it's up to you [12:55] i dont have any attitude,if you feel that way through what i write iam sorry [12:55] if you don't have an attitude - why did you agree you did earlier ? [12:56] * Pici reads scrollback [12:56] ahh pici [12:56] well, have to agree with the mods on something ,i thought thats how it always works [12:56]