=== heHATEme is now known as they
=== they is now known as vorian
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
=== rgreening_ is now known as rgreening
haphi guys10:40
hapcan anyone tell me how easy/difficult it would be to intercept all notifications, and send them to myself in another way, like email, twitt them through an account etc ?10:42
mac_vbeuno: hi, free?10:59
mac_vbeuno: Bug 387834 is fixed , need to set the milestone11:01
MacSlowhap, do you want to intercept (swallow) them or just get a copy of them?11:12
MacSlowhap, of  the top of my head I'd say write you own notification daemon11:13
* SiDi waves at mac_v and MacSlow 11:13
MacSlowhey SiDi 11:13
mac_vSiDi: heya..11:14
MacSlowhap, if you take a look at notify-osd/src/stack.c that would get you started to see what's going on (you'll need to bother with DBus... that much of a warning I can give you)11:14
SiDiMacSlow: you use dbus with the glib, right ?11:18
SiDitry libdbus then :d11:18
hapMacSlow: yeah I thought i d need to play with dbus11:33
hapi ll prototype something with python i think11:33
hapMacSlow: I want to get a copy of them, so you still have the normal way of displaying the notifications11:34
hapbut you also have a copy in your mails, etc.11:34
* MacSlow -> lunch12:30
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
SiDiMacSlow|lunch: can i consider it annoying if the latest notify-osd uses 175 MB Ram ?13:13
SiDiis it enough to consider the possibility of a _little_ memory leak ? :D13:13
SiDiI mean, it even beats firefox...13:14
MacSlow|lunchyes, there are mem-leaks13:15
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
mac_vMacSlow: hi,.do you work in the london office or from home? just asking since, it seems most of the london staff are out/not logged in13:45
MacSlowmac_v, I work from home (not London or England)13:47
mac_vMacSlow: ah...:) is it some holiday in london office? when do we expect them back?13:48
MacSlowno clue13:48
MacSlowmaybe they have some fire-alarm testing again or so13:48
MacSlowthat happens in the millbank tower from time to time13:48
mac_v0.o 13:49
SiDimac_v: how the hell do you know london office people are offline ? Oo14:05
=== vorian is now known as rofl
=== rofl is now known as vorian
ivankaI'm here14:53
* SiDi waves at ivanka then14:53
* ivanka waves back as SiDi14:54
* mac_v waves at ivanka15:07
mac_vSiDi: i noticed mpt,David, missing ,15:09
mac_vand kwwii's bot always around ;p15:10
SiDimac_v: you're scary15:14
SiDiRemind me to never tell you where i live and who i work for :D15:14
tedgmac_v: They're missing, and you'll never find the bodies! <laugh type="evil" />  ;)15:16
mac_vSiDi: ah... i noticed just because i couldnt catch David Seigel, there are a couple of papaercuts with fix released today, but havent been assigned milestones...15:16
SiDimac_v: assigning them afterwards is cheating :)15:16
mac_vtedg: 0.o 15:17
SiDitedg: did you plan any "dinner" with some new exotic meat in the coming days ?15:17
mac_vSiDi: i had them confirmed and they have been fixed... David hadnt noticed them15:17
mac_vSiDi: you thought i was scary... [what about tedg]15:17
tedgSiDi: I only ever serve chicken.  No one's ever mentioned anything....15:18
SiDitedg: a ~80kg chicken with an human shape, maybe ?15:18
SiDi'tedg's food : chicken from human beings'15:19
tedgHeh, I can't talk about it anymore.  "They" are watching. ;)15:19
SiDiyeh, and mac_v is being too curious15:19
mac_vSiDi: tedg says> Well, Clarice - have the lambs stopped screaming? 15:20
SiDimac_v: you're invited to the next dinner. We'll ask you to come 10 hours before the other guests, though, because it takes time to cook hu.... err, because.15:20
mac_vsilence of the lambs... ;p15:20
SiDitedg: by the way, did libindicate and indicator-applet get separated in the end ?15:23
tedgSiDi: No, they haven't yet.  They will.15:24
SiDiany chance for it to be done one week before feature freeze ? :) i wanna try to get indicator-applet-xfce running, and to write an indicate plugin for claws15:24
tedgSiDi: kenvandine didn't harass me enough about it :)15:25
mac_vtedg: any chance of FUSA bug 291278 fixed for Karmic?15:25
mac_vdamn no bot!15:25
mac_vtedg: are you a channel OP? could you add ubottu for this channel?15:26
tedgmac_v: Well considering we'll be dropping the applet for karmic, all the bugs will be fixed! :)15:26
mac_vtedg: 0.0 , i thought you were reworking FUSA? [ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-fusa]15:27
tedgmac_v: I can try.  That rotation is tricky to do.  But it should be easier in the new code.15:27
tedgmac_v: I am, but for a variety of reasons its a new code base.15:27
tedgThe old-GDM and the new-GDM are very different beasts.15:28
mac_vyeah... new-GDM messed up my Karmic :(15:28
tedgYeah, I finally got mine stable.  But, it wasn't as easy as I would have liked.15:29
SiDinew gdm almost made 3 xubuntu devs suicide :P15:30
SiDiWe had a liveCD shipping the whole gnome-session and booting on gnome instead of xfce15:30
* ivanka waves at mac_v15:31
* mac_v hates the gdm , looks too much like fedora :( , waiting for mat_t to fix it15:33
tedgmac_v: No theming in the new GDM. :(  You can set GTK themes and the such, but more than that you have to build stuff.15:34
* mac_v too lazy to do so much work ;p15:35
* mac_v misses the graphical config tool15:37
MacSlowwith the new gdm "theming" (at least for the graphical greeter) right now mean "write a new custom greeter from scratch" 15:38
MacSlowat least this is now "easily" possible15:39
tedgHeh, "easily" :)15:40
kenvandinegetting a little crazy with the use of the word easliy there :)15:42
MacSlowit's all documented... in source-code "hooray"15:42
mac_vworse is more than half the gdm schemas dont appear in gconf15:42
tedgmac_v: GConf? Why would you need that?  They have a random variable setting function without listing all the variables.15:43
mac_vtedg: basically i was trying to get timed login to work , /etc/gdm/custom.conf now only allows auto login , but not timed... so i was looking through schemas, since someone had said it could be set via gconf , but :(15:52
tedgmac_v: The problem is that it's also hard to get to that version of gconf because it runs under the gdm user.  So it's a pretty hard gconf key to set.15:53
tedgmac_v: There is a DBus interface to set values on the DBus system bus.  But it doesn't list the values you can set.15:53
mac_vtedg: aw! i read the first part of the line about dbus and lit up, the ending was sad :(15:55
tedgClassic Shakespearian tragedy.  Gets exciting, but everyone dies in the end :) 15:56
mat_ttedg: MacSlow: I'm putting together some designs for the gdm now16:06
MacSlowmat_t, code or visuals?16:06
mat_ttedg: MacSlow: we'll see what sabdfl thinks of them, if he's +1, we'll have to think how to crack it16:06
mat_tMacSlow: visuals16:06
MacSlowmat_t, sorry... mixed up up with mac_v16:06
* mat_t doesn't know C *that* well yet16:07
* tedg is going to buy mat_t a "Programming in C" book for his birthday.16:07
* MacSlow already bleeds to death16:07
MacSlowa full day for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~macslow/notify-osd/abstract-notification-object/+merge/9194 is beyond me16:08
tedgIt's always the stupid stuff that takes the longest.16:09
tedgI'm not sure is that it's because we always underestimate things we don't want to do, or what.16:09
MacSlowtedg, by tomorrow I also should have my refactoring diagram for notify-osd ready and have you folks look over it to see what you think (also comparing it to the status quo)16:11
tedgMacSlow: sweet!16:12
MacSlowtedg, and I don't have an idea yet how to "enlong" running timeout (e.g. added text for a notification extends a bubbles timeout-period)16:13
tedgMacSlow: I'd say double the default period.  But, if something comes in really late, it gets queued instead of appended.16:14
tedgSo, like there's a cut off for display that is earlier than timeout.16:14
tedgThough, it seems that, if there is nothing else in the queue, it could be longer.  We're not DoSing other apps in that case.16:14
tedgMacSlow: What do you think?16:15
MacSlowaccording to the table with the durations in the spec the 15000 ms max. duration is the DOS-protection16:16
tedgYeah, but we don't want an append coming in 99.9% of the way through and disappearing.  Then the user couldn't read it.16:18
MacSlowtedg, hm... I'd call it tough luck16:22
tedgWe could just append "HAHA, you loose" at the end also ;)16:23
* tedg is really curious how translators would translate that16:23
DanRabbitmav_v: ping16:27
DanRabbitmac_v: ^^16:28
mac_vDanRabbit: pong :)16:28
DanRabbitSo you're not getting XDG folders in the places menu?16:28
mac_vMacSlow: the specs were written a long while ago, since we are now appending the text to existing bubbles , the specs need to be altered , we need set the time limit to something after the last append16:28
mac_vDanRabbit: nope...16:28
mac_vonly the home shows16:29
DanRabbitTell me, do you bookmarks all show up in a line in the places menu, or do they have their own submenu?16:29
mac_vDanRabbit: all in the places menu, no submenu16:29
DanRabbitthat's what I thought16:29
DanRabbitit's something wrong with that code16:30
DanRabbitbecause in the submenu, everything shows up16:30
MacSlowmac_v, there are timing specifications for extending on-screen time after append (also depending on amount of text added)16:30
MacSlowmac_v, these are just not implemented yet16:30
mac_voh... ok16:30
DanRabbitI don't know how to fix that :D16:30
DanRabbitAlso, where did you hear that for sure Humanity was in Karmic?16:31
mac_vDanRabbit: thats something that needs to be looked into..16:31
mac_vDanRabbit: kwwii was asking for testing humanity, he said most probably16:31
DanRabbitthat's exciting.16:32
mac_vDanRabbit: there are no xdg for public and templates16:32
DanRabbitI saw that email as well16:32
DanRabbitI'll do them today about lunch time16:32
mac_vDanRabbit: the icons are really nice, smooooooth feel16:32
DanRabbit(it's currently 8:30)16:33
DanRabbitThankyou :D16:33
DanRabbitThe only thing I'm really not happy with, is that I don't have every icon in every size.16:33
DanRabbitBut that's only busy work. It's getting done.16:33
mac_vDanRabbit: i wonder why you chose to use, white for shutdown16:33
DanRabbitWell, I haven't fixed the symlink yet, but I want the shutdown icon to be the one used in FUSA16:34
DanRabbitAnd I'm sure I'd be happy with a big blazing red icon staring at me from the corner of my desktop all day...16:34
DanRabbitbut, if that's something a number of people are requesting, I can make one.16:35
mac_vyou dont have to go all out flashy red, the shade you have used for gtk-delete are the nice16:35
mac_vDanRabbit: in fusa you mean the door?16:36
DanRabbitbut, I'm actually running out the door.16:37
DanRabbitwill you be on in a couple hours?16:37
DanRabbitI'll be working on it then, and you can help me out :D16:37
mac_vyeah... just ping me...16:37
SiDiMacSlow: btw i began working on the xfconf patch but i erased it yesterday when updating a branch >.>18:10
MacSlowbzr and lp are daunting if you don't know them18:10
MacSlowalthough they are so much nicer than git and bugzilla18:10
SiDii do know them, i just forgot i hadn't pushed my changes when i updated the branch to get the latest notify-osd release's code18:10
MacSlowgee... #kubuntu is an odd place18:12
MacSlowtime to call it a day18:36
djsiegel1DanRabbit: ping19:07
djsiegel1bratsche: have you thought any more about _ under button accelerator keys? Have you talked to anyone about it?19:11
=== mac__v is now known as mac_v
mac_vdjsiegel1: hi... today's update in Karmic have fixed certain papercut bugs19:15
mac_vdjsiegel1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388105  , https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387550 both are almost the same , but it was fixed in today's Karmic update.[2 birds one stone ;p]19:29
MDC1hi! I know this isn't exactly the right place, but I'd need some advices from a gtk hacker regarding how to implement toolbar editing in nautilus. The basics is there, but I've got problem with the actions (using singleton widgets versus new instance) - if someone got time for this, please tell...19:45
mac_vMDC1: #ubuntu-artwork is a better place , to find gtk experts19:58
MDC1mac_v, thanks19:59
bratschedjsiegel: No, not yet.  I was hoping to read whatever you and/or mpt has to write about it before I talk to any upstream people about it.20:06
djsiegelbratsche: working on the bug as we speak20:06
mac_vDanRabbit: the xdg folders work! its the panel's fault20:19
mac_veven in the places main menu20:20
mac_vjust had to restart the panel!20:20
DanRabbitoh, lol!20:20
mac_vDanRabbit: BTW , i was playing around with the icons, why do they all have execute privileges ?20:22
DanRabbitI made a boo boo one time20:22
DanRabbitand I gave everything in my home directory read/write/execute20:22
mac_vi think you need to correct that asap.20:23
DanRabbitno problem, I'm just no hotshot at the terminal20:24
DanRabbitis there a quick command to change then so I can read/write/but no execute?20:24
mac_vDanRabbit: i think even the gui from properties should work20:24
mac_vDanRabbit: uncheck the execute option and select apply to enclosed files20:25
mac_vDanRabbit: i have made a few edits,to the shutdown icon ... do you wanna have a look? its a little bit less red than the gtk-delete ,since you were concerned of the icon color in FUSA20:29
DanRabbitlove to see it20:29
mac_vDanRabbit: less red> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/system-shutdown.svg , faint hint of red[maybe you can say it is pink!]> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/system-shutdown%20%28copy%29.svg20:30
DanRabbitneeds some polishing, but I get what you're going for20:31
DanRabbitI'll give it a spin right after I fix this battery for david20:31
DanRabbitapparently mark doesn't like it :D20:31
mac_vDanRabbit: i was about to say that!20:32
mac_vthe battery colors are odd , they seem out of the color palate 20:32
DanRabbitWell, I know i need to make it flat instead of glossy20:32
DanRabbitbut David says mark doesn't want it blue or green at all20:33
mac_vi think you could use the grey from the present shutdown icon20:33
mac_vlooks nice, but how does it work on a dark panel?20:34
DanRabbithehe, that's just what I was talking to david about20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:16 PM) DanRabbit: I don't want to lose contrast20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:26 PM) David Siegel: right, keep going on this thread, looks promising20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:28 PM) DanRabbit: god knows what color the panel is going to be20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:35 PM) David Siegel: dude20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:39 PM) David Siegel: how many times do I have to say it20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:51 PM) David Siegel: we are designing ubuntu for how it comes by default20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:51 PM) DanRabbit: Well, you ship themes with dark panels.20:35
DanRabbit(12:33:59 PM) DanRabbit: I just really want to make sure it works for everything20:35
DanRabbit(12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: 99% of users keep it that way20:35
DanRabbit(12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: yeah, most users will never discover thoses20:35
DanRabbit(12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: we can cross that bridge when we get to it20:35
DanRabbit(12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: chances are, icons that work for light and dark will look amazing on neither20:35
djsiegelbratsche: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/403691 can you add any info you need here, and hook the bug up to the right projects? I can add more info20:35
mac_vDanRabbit: hehe!20:35
mac_vDanRabbit: you could use light grey , with dark border , i believe that will allow it to be visible in dark and light panels... do you have the present svg, i could fiddle with it a bit20:37
DanRabbitlet me finish with the series and then I'll push it to bzr20:37
bratschedjsiegel: I'll check it out now, thanks.20:40
bratschedjsiegel: I think people will argue that it makes the problem of discovery more of a problem.20:42
bratscheI think I like the idea, but I don't know exactly why.20:43
mac_vDanRabbit: your battery icon in different backgrounds> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-1.png20:45
DanRabbitwhite and black aren't bad it's just the in-between isn't it..20:46
mac_vi think it works well in all backgrounds, maybe only the empty portion needs a bit of a thicker border20:46
mac_vcheck the empty portion in the dark20:47
mac_vit looks thinner20:47
DanRabbitI was trying to make it look like glass20:47
mac_vDanRabbit: how about adding a white border with blur around the battery? it will not be seen in the white background , but it will allow the icon display in dark panels20:50
DanRabbitthat's a good idea20:50
DanRabbithow's gnome handling blur these days?20:50
DanRabbitI remember way back when I started elementary I had to cut out all the blur because it wouldn't render20:51
mac_vDanRabbit: i did that for breathe icons, seems to work well20:51
DanRabbitokay betteries are pushed20:51
DanRabbitbetter batteries > betteries20:52
mac_vDanRabbit: link to your ppa?20:53
DanRabbitI don't have a PPA20:53
DanRabbitjust bzr20:53
DanRabbitmac_V: ^^20:57
DanRabbitdjsiegel: batteries are pushed to bzr20:57
mac_vDanRabbit: nice exit icon :)20:58
mac_vDanRabbit: just the white part needs to be better pixel aligned , 21:01
DanRabbitI don't really like the red, though21:01
DanRabbitit's abrasive21:01
mac_vDanRabbit: i think you can use the white itself. since the battery is white, this wont look odd21:02
mac_velse the exit would have been the only grey scale icon21:03
mac_von the panel21:03
DanRabbitI guess that's a good point.21:03
DanRabbitmac_v: do you feel the wifi icon looks bad/21:13
DanRabbitI don't understand the war against blue21:13
mac_vDanRabbit: i'm biased about them ;p , but what is it about the color?21:13
DanRabbitblue and orange are complimentary colors. They make a great team. Just look at the firefox logo.21:13
DanRabbityea. I don't get why I keep getting told to remove every last speck of blue from Humanity21:14
mac_vDanRabbit: my view is that icons are too thin... 21:15
mac_vDanRabbit: do they want that in grey too?21:16
GreySimIf I were to pick a color for the wifi thing, it would be green. Not sure why. Or different colors at different strengths. Green at full or near full, then yellow, then orange or red. Probably orange since red might be a bit severe for something as tame as low wireless signal, unless it was NO signal.21:17
DanRabbitDavid is really pushing me to try and grey everything out21:17
DanRabbitbut that's going to create a lot of inconsistency in the panel, I think.21:17
DanRabbitthird party applications aren't going to adhere to that21:17
DanRabbitand it makes the icon look weird in other places21:18
mac_vGreySim: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-100.png21:18
mac_vDanRabbit: ^21:18
DanRabbitI see21:18
mac_vgreen wifi21:18
DanRabbitit looks squished21:18
DanRabbitbut, yea I had it green at first21:18
DanRabbitbut I thought blue was more consistent with the volume applet21:18
GreySimIf people are really pushing anti-blue, I would go green. Just because it's Human doesn't mean everything HAS to be orange. That's the major thing I don't like about GNOME Colors. The color theme is TOO prevalent.21:20
DanRabbitI'm being told no green either21:22
DanRabbitanalogous color scheme only21:22
DanRabbitGreysim: I agree that gnome-colors is TOO orange21:23
DanRabbitit's white noise.21:23
mac_vDanRabbit: this was for the notify-osd , hence the edges are not clear > http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/notification-network-wireless-full.png21:26
mac_vthe edges are supposed to blend in the black21:26
mac_vDanRabbit: battery mod on a dark background> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/gpm-primary-060.png21:28
DanRabbitmac_v: http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Screenshot.png21:34
DanRabbitIt's hard to tell with a small shot, but I'll trust you :D21:34
mac_vDanRabbit: you had only done the icon in 24 px , hence the small shot... compare this from my previous screenshot , you can see the empty part a bit clearer.21:36
DanRabbitI'll throw in some blur21:37
mac_vDanRabbit: i kept the same border as the glass, changed it to white,duplicated the rest , used only blur= 121:39
DanRabbitlet me finish my taco real fast :D21:39
DanRabbitI'm getting the opposite result as you for some reason...21:43
DanRabbitit's just the grey that's not doing so hot21:44
DanRabbitblack looks way better21:44
DanRabbitokay, pushed new battery21:49
mac_vDanRabbit: looks nice, this should work on all panels21:59
mac_vDanRabbit: did you test the icons out? you were concerned about the blur22:02
DanRabbitYea, I tested them out.22:02
DanRabbitIt looks kind of funny on a grey backgrounf22:02
DanRabbitbut no worse than it already did22:02
=== Quintasan_ is now known as ricspencer3
mccannheya bratsche 22:36
djsiegelDanRabbit: battery is looking fantastic22:40
bratschemccann: Hey dude!22:40
bratscheHow's it going?22:41
mccannbratsche: great.  so i saw a demo of some of the client side decorations stuff today22:41
mccannlooks nice22:41
mccannhow's that going btw?22:41
bratschemccann: Some other higher-priority stuff came up at work right now, so I'm afraid my focus is shifting for the moment.  I'm hoping to get back to work on it soon though.22:42
mccannaw bummer.  is there a bug open for it?22:43
bratscheYeah.. hang on a sec and I'll get it for you22:43
bratschemccann: One thing that very little thought has been put into yet is some kind of API or ideas for how you could put other widgets in that area if you wanted to.22:45
bratscheI don't have specific use case ideas for that though, which is probably why no thought has been put into it. :)22:46
bratscheIt's awesome that people are interested in it though.  I was kind of afraid initially that people would be very opposed to the idea.22:47
mccannideally we'd get it in for 2.2822:48
mccannbut there's still a bunch of work to do it seems22:48
mccannlike the opacity mask thingy22:48
mccannopaque regions rather22:48
bratscheYeah, rgba stuff is kind of a big blocker.  Plus Firefox is kind of a blocker for it being useful in any distro yet.22:49
mccannand actually having a theme that can take advantage of this stuff22:49
bratscheFirefox totally explodes in a fiery blaze right now if you enable rgba windows.22:50
bratscheAnd the content view is not correctly sized when the client-side-decorations stuff is enabled.22:50
mccanndoes epiphany work?22:51
bratscheI imagine both bugs are pretty easy to fix if you find someone who knows Firefox code somewhat.22:51
bratscheEpiphany -kind of- works.22:51
bratscheWith rgba enabled Epiphany works, but scrollbars and push buttons and things like that are invisible. :)22:51
mccannwould it be useful to write up a "where are we and what do we need to do" summary?22:51
bratscheYeah, probably.22:52
mccannand get krh and mclasen to comment?22:52
mccannmight be good to send it to ddl22:52
mccannso our theme and art guys can start thinking about it too22:52
bratscheI think on my local branch I have the cursor fu committed, but I never pushed it to git.g.o because I was waiting for mclasen to comment on it.22:52
mccannbasically just let people know this is the future22:52
mccannand maybe someone else can step up and help out too22:53
bratscheI talked to David Reveman about the opaque region stuff and he seemed to think for some reason that compiz would not suffer a huge performance penalty for most hardware people are using.  I don't really know what to think, but I figure at some point we could just start a branch and fix up issues like Firefox and deal with the opaque region stuff when we can.22:54
mccanninteresting.  owen and krh were pretty sure it would perform badly22:55
bratscheYeah, I don't have experience with that level of stuff but my instinct tells me that owen and krh tend to know what they're talking about. ;)22:56
bratscheI also want more experience with that level stuff though, so I'm hoping to get back to work on this stuff soon and get to work on that.22:58
djsiegelbratsche, DanRabbit doesn't see indicator-applet in his panel22:59
djsiegelbratsche: how does he make it show/22:59
bratscheDamn, where is ted when you actually need him? :)22:59
DanRabbitlol djsiegel: I didn't even realize that was the wrong channel either23:00
bratscheJust right-click the panel and click "add" or whatever, and find Indicator Applet.23:00
DanRabbitIt's there23:00
DanRabbitbut, there's no icons23:00
DanRabbithow do I populate it23:00
hyperairstart gwibber23:01
hyperairor pidgin23:01
hyperairor evolution23:01
hyperairthose are the tree apps i know of which use the indicator applet, in any case.23:01
hyperairoh i think empathy works too.23:01
=== ian_brasil is now known as ian_brasil_afk
DanRabbitDoes this only work in Karmic?23:02
djsiegelbratsche: could the accelerator underline change be made a theme-level decision, and not enforced throughout gtk? I imagine it would be easier to get it in that way23:02
djsiegelDanRabbit: no, I am on jaunty23:02
bratschedjsiegel: Maybe it can be made a style property on GtkWidget, yes.23:03
djsiegelbratsche I am surprised there's no way to turn it off23:03
DanRabbitah, found it23:03
djsiegelcould there already be a gconf key?23:04
bratschedjsiegel: Well the other thing is that we have to monitor the key presses (not really sure how that works with just the <alt> key yet since I don't think that generates a button-press-event).. and then route that to all the widgets in your currently focused window.23:04
bratscheErr.. I meant key-press-event.23:05
djsiegelbratsche: is this not a paper cut?23:05
djsiegelit would be a fantastic interface improvement for us to make23:05
djsiegelbut if it's not easy to patch...23:05
bratschedjsiegel: And no, there couldn't be a gconf key for it because gtk+ doesn't depend upon gconf.23:05
bratscheI'm not sure how easy it is yet.  Might be easy, or might not be. :)23:06
bratscheI still think we need a convincing argument for why it's a great UI improvement.. the fact that it can perhaps be toggled on/off by the theme maybe makes that less critical, but I still think there should be a good rationale to present the gtk+ maintainers.23:07
bratscheOh sweet, I just noticed that I got a new Bugzilla point today. :)23:08
bratscheI crave these things.  They're like vitamins.23:08
bratscheExcept the higher you get, the harder it is to get more so I'm feeling malnourished. :)23:08
djsiegelbratsche all I can think of is conducting user testing to show that people don't know what the underlines are, and think the interface looks better without them23:10
bratscheThe interface definitely does look better without them.23:10
bratscheI wish we could fade them in when you hit alt, rather than just showing them.. but that's not really doable yet.23:11
djsiegelbratsche: can you just ping a Gtk maintainer with the suggestion, "they look terrible, most people have no idea what they do, and users who use them would not be affected23:11
djsiegelthe maintainer might go "yep, that's all I need"23:11
djsiegelif they say "I need more" we can give more23:11
bratscheLet's ask mccann since he hangs out in our channel and is interested in usability. :)23:11
mccannhey djsiegel 23:12
mccannask me what?23:12
djsiegelmccann: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/40369123:13
mccannyeah ebassi is working on that upstream23:13
bratscheOh really?  Wow.23:13
djsiegelmccann: can you point me to a bug report?23:13
djsiegeloh I love you23:13
djsiegelmade my day23:13
mccannyeah we want this23:14
djsiegelglad we are on the same page23:14
bratscheVery nice.23:14
mccannwouldn't hurt to ping him on irc to express your love 23:14
djsiegelI will do that23:15
mccannsend him my love23:15
djsiegelI didn't think of it, but it actually makes accelerators more discoverable23:16
mccannit can23:16
djsiegelthat's amazing23:16
mccannwe also have more design freedom 23:16
mccannwe can even use color if necessary23:16
DanRabbitdjsiegel: done23:16
SiDiYet i'm pretty sure there will be one or two reports mentionning the sudden disparition of accelerators in karmic ;)23:16
mccannor weight maybe23:17
djsiegelSiDi: and there will be millions of users who think "ubuntu looks better, but I'm not sure what they changed"23:17
mccannthe underline is not great for a few reasons.  consider the "i"23:17
SiDidjsiegel: indeed ;)23:17
bratscheOh wow, this bug is really new.23:17
DanRabbitdjsiegel: I have to take off to work now, but the indicator applet is pushed23:19
djsiegelDanRabbit: awesome work, man23:19
DanRabbitit needs polish23:19
djsiegelwill peep the icons in a bit23:19
DanRabbitI'll fix it when I get home23:19
djsiegelthis ghost effect you have with the battery is remarkable23:20
djsiegelit's very light and systemic23:20
djsiegelfeels like a piece of the environment23:20
DanRabbitI'm glad23:20
djsiegelephemeral like pure information23:20
djsiegellike the notificaiton bubbles23:20
* bratsche => away, bbiab23:21
DanRabbitalright peace out23:21
mccanndjsiegel: you did that nautilus redesign post right?23:22
djsiegelmccann: well, I made the post and discussed the changes, MDC1 (I think) made the patch23:22
djsiegelMDC1: are you Marcus Carlson?23:22
mccannI think you were too conservative :)  though I'm guessing most of the feedback you got was in the other direction23:22
djsiegelbut stop calling it a resdesign!23:23
djsiegelmccann: it is not a redesign, just changes to settings23:23
mccannwell it needs more23:23
djsiegelI was seeing what we could do without coding23:23
mccanni talked to cosimo about it a bit23:23
djsiegelI didn't want it to go too far because I would rather have it land as is, then go further and not ship it23:23
djsiegelmccann: what did he have to say?23:23
mccannwe should  make a wiki page on live.gnome.org to put some ideas23:24
djsiegelI didn't realize I missed a discussion at GCDS23:24
mccannfirstly put up some relevant art23:24
mccannsorta like mpt did with the system settings page23:24
mccannone goal of a redesign should be to make the file-chooser and nautilus look and behave consistently23:25
mccannnot necessarily the same but consistent23:25
djsiegelmccann: nice, GNOME Do is in a user story :)23:26
djsiegelmccann: yes23:26
mccannso that might be a nice thing for someone to start on23:27
djsiegelmccann: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=139119&action=view23:43
djsiegel(removing arrow from main-menu applet)23:43

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