[10:40] <hap> hi guys
[10:42] <hap> can anyone tell me how easy/difficult it would be to intercept all notifications, and send them to myself in another way, like email, twitt them through an account etc ?
[10:59] <mac_v> beuno: hi, free?
[11:01] <mac_v> beuno: Bug 387834 is fixed , need to set the milestone
[11:12] <MacSlow> hap, do you want to intercept (swallow) them or just get a copy of them?
[11:13] <MacSlow> hap, of  the top of my head I'd say write you own notification daemon
[11:13]  * SiDi waves at mac_v  and MacSlow 
[11:13] <MacSlow> hey SiDi 
[11:14] <mac_v> SiDi: heya..
[11:14] <MacSlow> hap, if you take a look at notify-osd/src/stack.c that would get you started to see what's going on (you'll need to bother with DBus... that much of a warning I can give you)
[11:18] <SiDi> MacSlow: you use dbus with the glib, right ?
[11:18] <MacSlow> yes
[11:18] <SiDi> try libdbus then :d
[11:19] <MacSlow> upw
[11:19] <MacSlow> s
[11:33] <hap> MacSlow: yeah I thought i d need to play with dbus
[11:33] <hap> i ll prototype something with python i think
[11:34] <hap> MacSlow: I want to get a copy of them, so you still have the normal way of displaying the notifications
[11:34] <hap> but you also have a copy in your mails, etc.
[12:30]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[13:13] <SiDi> MacSlow|lunch: can i consider it annoying if the latest notify-osd uses 175 MB Ram ?
[13:13] <SiDi> is it enough to consider the possibility of a _little_ memory leak ? :D
[13:14] <SiDi> I mean, it even beats firefox...
[13:15] <MacSlow|lunch> yes, there are mem-leaks
[13:45] <mac_v> MacSlow: hi,.do you work in the london office or from home? just asking since, it seems most of the london staff are out/not logged in
[13:47] <MacSlow> mac_v, I work from home (not London or England)
[13:48] <mac_v> MacSlow: ah...:) is it some holiday in london office? when do we expect them back?
[13:48] <MacSlow> no clue
[13:48] <mac_v> :(
[13:48] <MacSlow> maybe they have some fire-alarm testing again or so
[13:48] <MacSlow> that happens in the millbank tower from time to time
[13:49] <mac_v> 0.o 
[14:05] <SiDi> mac_v: how the hell do you know london office people are offline ? Oo
[14:53] <ivanka> I'm here
[14:53]  * SiDi waves at ivanka then
[14:54]  * ivanka waves back as SiDi
[15:07]  * mac_v waves at ivanka
[15:09] <mac_v> SiDi: i noticed mpt,David, missing ,
[15:10] <mac_v> and kwwii's bot always around ;p
[15:14] <SiDi> mac_v: you're scary
[15:14] <SiDi> Remind me to never tell you where i live and who i work for :D
[15:14] <mac_v> ;p
[15:16] <tedg> mac_v: They're missing, and you'll never find the bodies! <laugh type="evil" />  ;)
[15:16] <mac_v> SiDi: ah... i noticed just because i couldnt catch David Seigel, there are a couple of papaercuts with fix released today, but havent been assigned milestones...
[15:16] <SiDi> mac_v: assigning them afterwards is cheating :)
[15:17] <mac_v> tedg: 0.o 
[15:17] <SiDi> tedg: did you plan any "dinner" with some new exotic meat in the coming days ?
[15:17] <mac_v> SiDi: i had them confirmed and they have been fixed... David hadnt noticed them
[15:17] <mac_v> SiDi: you thought i was scary... [what about tedg]
[15:18] <tedg> SiDi: I only ever serve chicken.  No one's ever mentioned anything....
[15:18] <SiDi> tedg: a ~80kg chicken with an human shape, maybe ?
[15:19] <SiDi> 'tedg's food : chicken from human beings'
[15:19] <tedg> Heh, I can't talk about it anymore.  "They" are watching. ;)
[15:19] <SiDi> yeh, and mac_v is being too curious
[15:20] <mac_v> SiDi: tedg says> Well, Clarice - have the lambs stopped screaming? 
[15:20] <SiDi> mac_v: you're invited to the next dinner. We'll ask you to come 10 hours before the other guests, though, because it takes time to cook hu.... err, because.
[15:20] <mac_v> silence of the lambs... ;p
[15:23] <SiDi> tedg: by the way, did libindicate and indicator-applet get separated in the end ?
[15:24] <tedg> SiDi: No, they haven't yet.  They will.
[15:24] <SiDi> any chance for it to be done one week before feature freeze ? :) i wanna try to get indicator-applet-xfce running, and to write an indicate plugin for claws
[15:25] <tedg> SiDi: kenvandine didn't harass me enough about it :)
[15:25] <mac_v> tedg: any chance of FUSA bug 291278 fixed for Karmic?
[15:25] <mac_v> damn no bot!
[15:26] <mac_v> tedg: are you a channel OP? could you add ubottu for this channel?
[15:26] <tedg> mac_v: Well considering we'll be dropping the applet for karmic, all the bugs will be fixed! :)
[15:27] <mac_v> tedg: 0.0 , i thought you were reworking FUSA? [ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-fusa]
[15:27] <tedg> mac_v: I can try.  That rotation is tricky to do.  But it should be easier in the new code.
[15:27] <tedg> mac_v: I am, but for a variety of reasons its a new code base.
[15:27] <mac_v> \o/
[15:28] <tedg> The old-GDM and the new-GDM are very different beasts.
[15:28] <mac_v> yeah... new-GDM messed up my Karmic :(
[15:28] <mac_v> install
[15:29] <tedg> Yeah, I finally got mine stable.  But, it wasn't as easy as I would have liked.
[15:30] <SiDi> new gdm almost made 3 xubuntu devs suicide :P
[15:30] <SiDi> We had a liveCD shipping the whole gnome-session and booting on gnome instead of xfce
[15:31]  * ivanka waves at mac_v
[15:31] <mac_v> :)
[15:33]  * mac_v hates the gdm , looks too much like fedora :( , waiting for mat_t to fix it
[15:34] <tedg> mac_v: No theming in the new GDM. :(  You can set GTK themes and the such, but more than that you have to build stuff.
[15:34] <mac_v> yeah
[15:35]  * mac_v too lazy to do so much work ;p
[15:37]  * mac_v  misses the graphical config tool
[15:38] <MacSlow> with the new gdm "theming" (at least for the graphical greeter) right now mean "write a new custom greeter from scratch" 
[15:39] <MacSlow> at least this is now "easily" possible
[15:40] <tedg> Heh, "easily" :)
[15:42] <kenvandine> getting a little crazy with the use of the word easliy there :)
[15:42] <MacSlow> it's all documented... in source-code "hooray"
[15:42] <mac_v> worse is more than half the gdm schemas dont appear in gconf
[15:43] <tedg> mac_v: GConf? Why would you need that?  They have a random variable setting function without listing all the variables.
[15:52] <mac_v> tedg: basically i was trying to get timed login to work , /etc/gdm/custom.conf now only allows auto login , but not timed... so i was looking through schemas, since someone had said it could be set via gconf , but :(
[15:53] <tedg> mac_v: The problem is that it's also hard to get to that version of gconf because it runs under the gdm user.  So it's a pretty hard gconf key to set.
[15:53] <tedg> mac_v: There is a DBus interface to set values on the DBus system bus.  But it doesn't list the values you can set.
[15:55] <mac_v> tedg: aw! i read the first part of the line about dbus and lit up, the ending was sad :(
[15:56] <tedg> Classic Shakespearian tragedy.  Gets exciting, but everyone dies in the end :) 
[16:06] <mat_t> tedg: MacSlow: I'm putting together some designs for the gdm now
[16:06] <MacSlow> mat_t, code or visuals?
[16:06] <mat_t> tedg: MacSlow: we'll see what sabdfl thinks of them, if he's +1, we'll have to think how to crack it
[16:06] <mat_t> MacSlow: visuals
[16:06] <MacSlow> mat_t, sorry... mixed up up with mac_v
[16:07] <mat_t> :)
[16:07]  * mat_t doesn't know C *that* well yet
[16:07]  * tedg is going to buy mat_t a "Programming in C" book for his birthday.
[16:07]  * MacSlow already bleeds to death
[16:08] <MacSlow> a full day for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~macslow/notify-osd/abstract-notification-object/+merge/9194 is beyond me
[16:09] <tedg> It's always the stupid stuff that takes the longest.
[16:09] <tedg> I'm not sure is that it's because we always underestimate things we don't want to do, or what.
[16:11] <MacSlow> tedg, by tomorrow I also should have my refactoring diagram for notify-osd ready and have you folks look over it to see what you think (also comparing it to the status quo)
[16:12] <tedg> MacSlow: sweet!
[16:13] <MacSlow> tedg, and I don't have an idea yet how to "enlong" running timeout (e.g. added text for a notification extends a bubbles timeout-period)
[16:14] <tedg> MacSlow: I'd say double the default period.  But, if something comes in really late, it gets queued instead of appended.
[16:14] <tedg> So, like there's a cut off for display that is earlier than timeout.
[16:14] <tedg> Though, it seems that, if there is nothing else in the queue, it could be longer.  We're not DoSing other apps in that case.
[16:15] <tedg> MacSlow: What do you think?
[16:16] <MacSlow> according to the table with the durations in the spec the 15000 ms max. duration is the DOS-protection
[16:18] <tedg> Yeah, but we don't want an append coming in 99.9% of the way through and disappearing.  Then the user couldn't read it.
[16:22] <MacSlow> tedg, hm... I'd call it tough luck
[16:23] <tedg> We could just append "HAHA, you loose" at the end also ;)
[16:23]  * tedg is really curious how translators would translate that
[16:27] <DanRabbit> mav_v: ping
[16:28] <DanRabbit> mac_v: ^^
[16:28] <mac_v> DanRabbit: pong :)
[16:28] <DanRabbit> So you're not getting XDG folders in the places menu?
[16:28] <mac_v> MacSlow: the specs were written a long while ago, since we are now appending the text to existing bubbles , the specs need to be altered , we need set the time limit to something after the last append
[16:28] <mac_v> DanRabbit: nope...
[16:29] <mac_v> only the home shows
[16:29] <DanRabbit> Tell me, do you bookmarks all show up in a line in the places menu, or do they have their own submenu?
[16:29] <mac_v> DanRabbit: all in the places menu, no submenu
[16:29] <DanRabbit> that's what I thought
[16:30] <DanRabbit> it's something wrong with that code
[16:30] <DanRabbit> because in the submenu, everything shows up
[16:30] <MacSlow> mac_v, there are timing specifications for extending on-screen time after append (also depending on amount of text added)
[16:30] <MacSlow> mac_v, these are just not implemented yet
[16:30] <mac_v> oh... ok
[16:30] <DanRabbit> I don't know how to fix that :D
[16:31] <DanRabbit> Also, where did you hear that for sure Humanity was in Karmic?
[16:31] <mac_v> DanRabbit: thats something that needs to be looked into..
[16:31] <mac_v> DanRabbit: kwwii was asking for testing humanity, he said most probably
[16:31] <DanRabbit> ooo
[16:31] <DanRabbit> :D
[16:32] <DanRabbit> that's exciting.
[16:32] <mac_v> DanRabbit: there are no xdg for public and templates
[16:32] <DanRabbit> I saw that email as well
[16:32] <DanRabbit> I'll do them today about lunch time
[16:32] <mac_v> DanRabbit: the icons are really nice, smooooooth feel
[16:33] <DanRabbit> (it's currently 8:30)
[16:33] <DanRabbit> Thankyou :D
[16:33] <DanRabbit> The only thing I'm really not happy with, is that I don't have every icon in every size.
[16:33] <DanRabbit> But that's only busy work. It's getting done.
[16:33] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i wonder why you chose to use, white for shutdown
[16:34] <DanRabbit> Well, I haven't fixed the symlink yet, but I want the shutdown icon to be the one used in FUSA
[16:34] <DanRabbit> And I'm sure I'd be happy with a big blazing red icon staring at me from the corner of my desktop all day...
[16:35] <DanRabbit> but, if that's something a number of people are requesting, I can make one.
[16:35] <mac_v> you dont have to go all out flashy red, the shade you have used for gtk-delete are the nice
[16:36] <mac_v> DanRabbit: in fusa you mean the door?
[16:37] <DanRabbit> yea
[16:37] <DanRabbit> but, I'm actually running out the door.
[16:37] <DanRabbit> will you be on in a couple hours?
[16:37] <DanRabbit> I'll be working on it then, and you can help me out :D
[16:37] <mac_v> yeah... just ping me...
[18:10] <SiDi> MacSlow: btw i began working on the xfconf patch but i erased it yesterday when updating a branch >.>
[18:10] <MacSlow> bzr and lp are daunting if you don't know them
[18:10] <MacSlow> although they are so much nicer than git and bugzilla
[18:10] <SiDi> i do know them, i just forgot i hadn't pushed my changes when i updated the branch to get the latest notify-osd release's code
[18:12] <MacSlow> gee... #kubuntu is an odd place
[18:36] <MacSlow> time to call it a day
[19:07] <djsiegel1> DanRabbit: ping
[19:11] <djsiegel1> bratsche: have you thought any more about _ under button accelerator keys? Have you talked to anyone about it?
[19:15] <mac_v> djsiegel1: hi... today's update in Karmic have fixed certain papercut bugs
[19:29] <mac_v> djsiegel1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388105  , https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387550 both are almost the same , but it was fixed in today's Karmic update.[2 birds one stone ;p]
[19:45] <MDC1> hi! I know this isn't exactly the right place, but I'd need some advices from a gtk hacker regarding how to implement toolbar editing in nautilus. The basics is there, but I've got problem with the actions (using singleton widgets versus new instance) - if someone got time for this, please tell...
[19:58] <mac_v> MDC1: #ubuntu-artwork is a better place , to find gtk experts
[19:59] <MDC1> mac_v, thanks
[20:05] <DanRabbit> djsiegel:pong
[20:06] <bratsche> djsiegel: No, not yet.  I was hoping to read whatever you and/or mpt has to write about it before I talk to any upstream people about it.
[20:06] <djsiegel> bratsche: working on the bug as we speak
[20:07] <bratsche> Sweet.
[20:19] <mac_v> DanRabbit: the xdg folders work! its the panel's fault
[20:20] <DanRabbit> hehe
[20:20] <mac_v> even in the places main menu
[20:20] <mac_v> just had to restart the panel!
[20:20] <DanRabbit> oh, lol!
[20:22] <mac_v> DanRabbit: BTW , i was playing around with the icons, why do they all have execute privileges ?
[20:22] <DanRabbit> I made a boo boo one time
[20:22] <DanRabbit> and I gave everything in my home directory read/write/execute
[20:23] <mac_v> i think you need to correct that asap.
[20:24] <DanRabbit> no problem, I'm just no hotshot at the terminal
[20:24] <DanRabbit> is there a quick command to change then so I can read/write/but no execute?
[20:24] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i think even the gui from properties should work
[20:25] <mac_v> DanRabbit: uncheck the execute option and select apply to enclosed files
[20:25] <DanRabbit> okay
[20:29] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i have made a few edits,to the shutdown icon ... do you wanna have a look? its a little bit less red than the gtk-delete ,since you were concerned of the icon color in FUSA
[20:29] <DanRabbit> love to see it
[20:30] <mac_v> DanRabbit: less red> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/system-shutdown.svg , faint hint of red[maybe you can say it is pink!]> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/system-shutdown%20%28copy%29.svg
[20:31] <DanRabbit> hmm...
[20:31] <DanRabbit> needs some polishing, but I get what you're going for
[20:31] <DanRabbit> I'll give it a spin right after I fix this battery for david
[20:31] <DanRabbit> apparently mark doesn't like it :D
[20:32] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i was about to say that!
[20:32] <mac_v> the battery colors are odd , they seem out of the color palate 
[20:32] <DanRabbit> Well, I know i need to make it flat instead of glossy
[20:33] <DanRabbit> but David says mark doesn't want it blue or green at all
[20:33] <mac_v> i think you could use the grey from the present shutdown icon
[20:34] <DanRabbit> http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/battery_full.png
[20:34] <mac_v> looks nice, but how does it work on a dark panel?
[20:35] <DanRabbit> hehe, that's just what I was talking to david about
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:16 PM) DanRabbit: I don't want to lose contrast
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:26 PM) David Siegel: right, keep going on this thread, looks promising
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:28 PM) DanRabbit: god knows what color the panel is going to be
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:35 PM) David Siegel: dude
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:39 PM) David Siegel: how many times do I have to say it
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:51 PM) David Siegel: we are designing ubuntu for how it comes by default
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:51 PM) DanRabbit: Well, you ship themes with dark panels.
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:33:59 PM) DanRabbit: I just really want to make sure it works for everything
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: 99% of users keep it that way
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: yeah, most users will never discover thoses
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: we can cross that bridge when we get to it
[20:35] <DanRabbit> (12:34:33 PM) David Siegel: chances are, icons that work for light and dark will look amazing on neither
[20:35] <djsiegel> bratsche: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/403691 can you add any info you need here, and hook the bug up to the right projects? I can add more info
[20:35] <mac_v> DanRabbit: hehe!
[20:36] <djsiegel> :)
[20:37] <mac_v> DanRabbit: you could use light grey , with dark border , i believe that will allow it to be visible in dark and light panels... do you have the present svg, i could fiddle with it a bit
[20:37] <DanRabbit> let me finish with the series and then I'll push it to bzr
[20:37] <mac_v> ok...
[20:40] <bratsche> djsiegel: I'll check it out now, thanks.
[20:42] <bratsche> djsiegel: I think people will argue that it makes the problem of discovery more of a problem.
[20:43] <bratsche> I think I like the idea, but I don't know exactly why.
[20:45] <mac_v> DanRabbit: your battery icon in different backgrounds> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-1.png
[20:46] <DanRabbit> white and black aren't bad it's just the in-between isn't it..
[20:46] <mac_v> i think it works well in all backgrounds, maybe only the empty portion needs a bit of a thicker border
[20:47] <mac_v> check the empty portion in the dark
[20:47] <mac_v> it looks thinner
[20:47] <DanRabbit> true
[20:47] <DanRabbit> I was trying to make it look like glass
[20:50] <mac_v> DanRabbit: how about adding a white border with blur around the battery? it will not be seen in the white background , but it will allow the icon display in dark panels
[20:50] <DanRabbit> that's a good idea
[20:50] <DanRabbit> how's gnome handling blur these days?
[20:51] <DanRabbit> I remember way back when I started elementary I had to cut out all the blur because it wouldn't render
[20:51] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i did that for breathe icons, seems to work well
[20:51] <DanRabbit> okay betteries are pushed
[20:51] <DanRabbit> :D
[20:52] <DanRabbit> better batteries > betteries
[20:53] <mac_v> DanRabbit: link to your ppa?
[20:53] <DanRabbit> I don't have a PPA
[20:53] <DanRabbit> just bzr
[20:54] <DanRabbit> https://code.launchpad.net/~elementaryicons/humanity/Humanity
[20:57] <DanRabbit> http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/exit.png
[20:57] <DanRabbit> mac_V: ^^
[20:57] <DanRabbit> djsiegel: batteries are pushed to bzr
[20:58] <mac_v> DanRabbit: nice exit icon :)
[21:00] <DanRabbit> yea?
[21:01] <mac_v> DanRabbit: just the white part needs to be better pixel aligned , 
[21:01] <DanRabbit> agreed
[21:01] <DanRabbit> I don't really like the red, though
[21:01] <DanRabbit> it's abrasive
[21:02] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i think you can use the white itself. since the battery is white, this wont look odd
[21:03] <mac_v> else the exit would have been the only grey scale icon
[21:03] <mac_v> on the panel
[21:03] <DanRabbit> I guess that's a good point.
[21:13] <DanRabbit> mac_v: do you feel the wifi icon looks bad/
[21:13] <DanRabbit> ?
[21:13] <DanRabbit> I don't understand the war against blue
[21:13] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i'm biased about them ;p , but what is it about the color?
[21:13] <DanRabbit> blue and orange are complimentary colors. They make a great team. Just look at the firefox logo.
[21:14] <DanRabbit> yea. I don't get why I keep getting told to remove every last speck of blue from Humanity
[21:15] <mac_v> DanRabbit: my view is that icons are too thin... 
[21:16] <mac_v> DanRabbit: do they want that in grey too?
[21:16] <DanRabbit> yes
[21:17] <GreySim> If I were to pick a color for the wifi thing, it would be green. Not sure why. Or different colors at different strengths. Green at full or near full, then yellow, then orange or red. Probably orange since red might be a bit severe for something as tame as low wireless signal, unless it was NO signal.
[21:17] <DanRabbit> David is really pushing me to try and grey everything out
[21:17] <DanRabbit> but that's going to create a lot of inconsistency in the panel, I think.
[21:17] <DanRabbit> third party applications aren't going to adhere to that
[21:18] <DanRabbit> and it makes the icon look weird in other places
[21:18] <mac_v> GreySim: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-100.png
[21:18] <mac_v> DanRabbit: ^
[21:18] <DanRabbit> I see
[21:18] <mac_v> green wifi
[21:18] <DanRabbit> it looks squished
[21:18] <DanRabbit> but, yea I had it green at first
[21:18] <DanRabbit> but I thought blue was more consistent with the volume applet
[21:20] <GreySim> If people are really pushing anti-blue, I would go green. Just because it's Human doesn't mean everything HAS to be orange. That's the major thing I don't like about GNOME Colors. The color theme is TOO prevalent.
[21:22] <DanRabbit> I'm being told no green either
[21:22] <DanRabbit> analogous color scheme only
[21:23] <DanRabbit> Greysim: I agree that gnome-colors is TOO orange
[21:23] <DanRabbit> it's white noise.
[21:26] <mac_v> DanRabbit: this was for the notify-osd , hence the edges are not clear > http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/notification-network-wireless-full.png
[21:26] <mac_v> the edges are supposed to blend in the black
[21:28] <mac_v> DanRabbit: battery mod on a dark background> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/gpm-primary-060.png
[21:34] <DanRabbit> mac_v: http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Screenshot.png
[21:34] <DanRabbit> It's hard to tell with a small shot, but I'll trust you :D
[21:36] <mac_v> DanRabbit: you had only done the icon in 24 px , hence the small shot... compare this from my previous screenshot , you can see the empty part a bit clearer.
[21:37] <DanRabbit> I'll throw in some blur
[21:37] <mac_v> \o/
[21:39] <mac_v> DanRabbit: i kept the same border as the glass, changed it to white,duplicated the rest , used only blur= 1
[21:39] <DanRabbit> cool
[21:39] <DanRabbit> let me finish my taco real fast :D
[21:40] <bratsche> Yum.
[21:43] <DanRabbit> Hmm...
[21:43] <DanRabbit> I'm getting the opposite result as you for some reason...
[21:43] <DanRabbit> :D
[21:44] <DanRabbit> nvm
[21:44] <DanRabbit> it's just the grey that's not doing so hot
[21:44] <DanRabbit> black looks way better
[21:49] <DanRabbit> okay, pushed new battery
[21:59] <mac_v> DanRabbit: looks nice, this should work on all panels
[21:59] <DanRabbit> cool
[22:02] <mac_v> DanRabbit: did you test the icons out? you were concerned about the blur
[22:02] <DanRabbit> Yea, I tested them out.
[22:02] <DanRabbit> It looks kind of funny on a grey backgrounf
[22:02] <DanRabbit> but no worse than it already did
[22:02] <DanRabbit> background*
[22:36] <mccann> heya bratsche 
[22:40] <djsiegel> DanRabbit: battery is looking fantastic
[22:40] <DanRabbit> thankyou
[22:40] <bratsche> mccann: Hey dude!
[22:41] <bratsche> How's it going?
[22:41] <mccann> bratsche: great.  so i saw a demo of some of the client side decorations stuff today
[22:41] <mccann> looks nice
[22:41] <mccann> how's that going btw?
[22:42] <bratsche> mccann: Some other higher-priority stuff came up at work right now, so I'm afraid my focus is shifting for the moment.  I'm hoping to get back to work on it soon though.
[22:43] <mccann> aw bummer.  is there a bug open for it?
[22:43] <bratsche> Yeah.. hang on a sec and I'll get it for you
[22:43] <bratsche_> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=587475
[22:45] <bratsche> mccann: One thing that very little thought has been put into yet is some kind of API or ideas for how you could put other widgets in that area if you wanted to.
[22:46] <bratsche> I don't have specific use case ideas for that though, which is probably why no thought has been put into it. :)
[22:46] <mccann> right
[22:47] <bratsche> It's awesome that people are interested in it though.  I was kind of afraid initially that people would be very opposed to the idea.
[22:48] <mccann> ideally we'd get it in for 2.28
[22:48] <mccann> but there's still a bunch of work to do it seems
[22:48] <mccann> like the opacity mask thingy
[22:48] <mccann> opaque regions rather
[22:49] <bratsche> Yeah, rgba stuff is kind of a big blocker.  Plus Firefox is kind of a blocker for it being useful in any distro yet.
[22:49] <mccann> and actually having a theme that can take advantage of this stuff
[22:50] <bratsche> Firefox totally explodes in a fiery blaze right now if you enable rgba windows.
[22:50] <mccann> haha
[22:50] <bratsche> And the content view is not correctly sized when the client-side-decorations stuff is enabled.
[22:51] <mccann> does epiphany work?
[22:51] <bratsche> I imagine both bugs are pretty easy to fix if you find someone who knows Firefox code somewhat.
[22:51] <bratsche> Epiphany -kind of- works.
[22:51] <bratsche> With rgba enabled Epiphany works, but scrollbars and push buttons and things like that are invisible. :)
[22:51] <mccann> would it be useful to write up a "where are we and what do we need to do" summary?
[22:52] <bratsche> Yeah, probably.
[22:52] <mccann> and get krh and mclasen to comment?
[22:52] <mccann> might be good to send it to ddl
[22:52] <mccann> so our theme and art guys can start thinking about it too
[22:52] <bratsche> I think on my local branch I have the cursor fu committed, but I never pushed it to git.g.o because I was waiting for mclasen to comment on it.
[22:52] <mccann> basically just let people know this is the future
[22:53] <mccann> and maybe someone else can step up and help out too
[22:54] <bratsche> I talked to David Reveman about the opaque region stuff and he seemed to think for some reason that compiz would not suffer a huge performance penalty for most hardware people are using.  I don't really know what to think, but I figure at some point we could just start a branch and fix up issues like Firefox and deal with the opaque region stuff when we can.
[22:55] <mccann> interesting.  owen and krh were pretty sure it would perform badly
[22:56] <bratsche> Yeah, I don't have experience with that level of stuff but my instinct tells me that owen and krh tend to know what they're talking about. ;)
[22:56] <mccann> yup
[22:58] <bratsche> I also want more experience with that level stuff though, so I'm hoping to get back to work on this stuff soon and get to work on that.
[22:59] <djsiegel> bratsche, DanRabbit doesn't see indicator-applet in his panel
[22:59] <djsiegel> bratsche: how does he make it show/
[22:59] <bratsche> Damn, where is ted when you actually need him? :)
[23:00] <DanRabbit> lol djsiegel: I didn't even realize that was the wrong channel either
[23:00] <bratsche> Just right-click the panel and click "add" or whatever, and find Indicator Applet.
[23:00] <DanRabbit> It's there
[23:00] <DanRabbit> but, there's no icons
[23:00] <DanRabbit> how do I populate it
[23:01] <hyperair> start gwibber
[23:01] <hyperair> or pidgin
[23:01] <hyperair> or evolution
[23:01] <hyperair> those are the tree apps i know of which use the indicator applet, in any case.
[23:01] <hyperair> oh i think empathy works too.
[23:01] <DanRabbit> okay
[23:01] <DanRabbit> brb
[23:02] <DanRabbit> Does this only work in Karmic?
[23:02] <djsiegel> bratsche: could the accelerator underline change be made a theme-level decision, and not enforced throughout gtk? I imagine it would be easier to get it in that way
[23:02] <djsiegel> DanRabbit: no, I am on jaunty
[23:03] <bratsche> djsiegel: Maybe it can be made a style property on GtkWidget, yes.
[23:03] <djsiegel> bratsche I am surprised there's no way to turn it off
[23:03] <DanRabbit> ah, found it
[23:04] <djsiegel> could there already be a gconf key?
[23:04] <bratsche> djsiegel: Well the other thing is that we have to monitor the key presses (not really sure how that works with just the <alt> key yet since I don't think that generates a button-press-event).. and then route that to all the widgets in your currently focused window.
[23:05] <djsiegel> yikes
[23:05] <bratsche> Err.. I meant key-press-event.
[23:05] <djsiegel> bratsche: is this not a paper cut?
[23:05] <djsiegel> it would be a fantastic interface improvement for us to make
[23:05] <djsiegel> but if it's not easy to patch...
[23:05] <bratsche> djsiegel: And no, there couldn't be a gconf key for it because gtk+ doesn't depend upon gconf.
[23:06] <djsiegel> ah,ok
[23:06] <bratsche> I'm not sure how easy it is yet.  Might be easy, or might not be. :)
[23:07] <bratsche> I still think we need a convincing argument for why it's a great UI improvement.. the fact that it can perhaps be toggled on/off by the theme maybe makes that less critical, but I still think there should be a good rationale to present the gtk+ maintainers.
[23:08] <bratsche> Oh sweet, I just noticed that I got a new Bugzilla point today. :)
[23:08] <bratsche> I crave these things.  They're like vitamins.
[23:08] <bratsche> Except the higher you get, the harder it is to get more so I'm feeling malnourished. :)
[23:10] <djsiegel> bratsche all I can think of is conducting user testing to show that people don't know what the underlines are, and think the interface looks better without them
[23:10] <bratsche> The interface definitely does look better without them.
[23:11] <bratsche> I wish we could fade them in when you hit alt, rather than just showing them.. but that's not really doable yet.
[23:11] <djsiegel> bratsche: can you just ping a Gtk maintainer with the suggestion, "they look terrible, most people have no idea what they do, and users who use them would not be affected
[23:11] <djsiegel> the maintainer might go "yep, that's all I need"
[23:11] <djsiegel> if they say "I need more" we can give more
[23:11] <bratsche> Let's ask mccann since he hangs out in our channel and is interested in usability. :)
[23:11] <djsiegel> mccann!
[23:12] <mccann> hey djsiegel 
[23:12] <mccann> ask me what?
[23:13] <djsiegel> mccann: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/403691
[23:13] <mccann> yeah ebassi is working on that upstream
[23:13] <bratsche> Oh really?  Wow.
[23:13] <djsiegel> mccann: can you point me to a bug report?
[23:13] <mccann> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588554
[23:13] <djsiegel> oh I love you
[23:13] <djsiegel> omg
[23:13] <djsiegel> made my day
[23:14] <mccann> yeah we want this
[23:14] <djsiegel> glad we are on the same page
[23:14] <bratsche> Very nice.
[23:14] <mccann> wouldn't hurt to ping him on irc to express your love 
[23:14] <mccann> :)
[23:15] <djsiegel> I will do that
[23:15] <mccann> send him my love
[23:15] <bratsche> heh
[23:16] <djsiegel> wow
[23:16] <djsiegel> I didn't think of it, but it actually makes accelerators more discoverable
[23:16] <mccann> yeah
[23:16] <mccann> it can
[23:16] <djsiegel> that's amazing
[23:16] <mccann> we also have more design freedom 
[23:16] <mccann> we can even use color if necessary
[23:16] <DanRabbit> djsiegel: done
[23:16] <SiDi> Yet i'm pretty sure there will be one or two reports mentionning the sudden disparition of accelerators in karmic ;)
[23:17] <mccann> or weight maybe
[23:17] <djsiegel> SiDi: and there will be millions of users who think "ubuntu looks better, but I'm not sure what they changed"
[23:17] <mccann> the underline is not great for a few reasons.  consider the "i"
[23:17] <SiDi> djsiegel: indeed ;)
[23:17] <bratsche> Oh wow, this bug is really new.
[23:17] <bratsche> Nice.
[23:19] <DanRabbit> djsiegel: I have to take off to work now, but the indicator applet is pushed
[23:19] <djsiegel> DanRabbit: awesome work, man
[23:19] <DanRabbit> thanks
[23:19] <DanRabbit> it needs polish
[23:19] <djsiegel> will peep the icons in a bit
[23:19] <DanRabbit> I'll fix it when I get home
[23:20] <djsiegel> this ghost effect you have with the battery is remarkable
[23:20] <DanRabbit> :D
[23:20] <djsiegel> it's very light and systemic
[23:20] <djsiegel> feels like a piece of the environment
[23:20] <DanRabbit> I'm glad
[23:20] <djsiegel> ephemeral like pure information
[23:20] <djsiegel> like the notificaiton bubbles
[23:21]  * bratsche => away, bbiab
[23:21] <DanRabbit> alright peace out
[23:21] <djsiegel> peace
[23:22] <mccann> djsiegel: you did that nautilus redesign post right?
[23:22] <djsiegel> mccann: well, I made the post and discussed the changes, MDC1 (I think) made the patch
[23:22] <djsiegel> MDC1: are you Marcus Carlson?
[23:22] <mccann> I think you were too conservative :)  though I'm guessing most of the feedback you got was in the other direction
[23:23] <djsiegel> but stop calling it a resdesign!
[23:23] <djsiegel> mccann: it is not a redesign, just changes to settings
[23:23] <mccann> well it needs more
[23:23] <djsiegel> I was seeing what we could do without coding
[23:23] <djsiegel> yeah
[23:23] <mccann> i talked to cosimo about it a bit
[23:23] <djsiegel> I didn't want it to go too far because I would rather have it land as is, then go further and not ship it
[23:23] <djsiegel> mccann: what did he have to say?
[23:24] <mccann> we should  make a wiki page on live.gnome.org to put some ideas
[23:24] <djsiegel> I didn't realize I missed a discussion at GCDS
[23:24] <mccann> firstly put up some relevant art
[23:24] <mccann> sorta like mpt did with the system settings page
[23:24] <mccann> http://live.gnome.org/SystemSettings
[23:25] <mccann> one goal of a redesign should be to make the file-chooser and nautilus look and behave consistently
[23:25] <mccann> not necessarily the same but consistent
[23:26] <djsiegel> mccann: nice, GNOME Do is in a user story :)
[23:26] <djsiegel> mccann: yes
[23:27] <mccann> so that might be a nice thing for someone to start on
[23:43] <djsiegel> mccann: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=139119&action=view
[23:43] <djsiegel> (removing arrow from main-menu applet)