[00:15] <ace_suares> hi there
[00:16] <ace_suares> I fixed the categorycleanup page (grin)
[00:25] <ace_suares> the wiki is terribly slow again
[00:29] <sbalneav> Probably lots of people using it.
[00:37] <ace_suares> sbalneav: hi scotty
[00:38] <sbalneav> Evening
[00:41] <ace_suares> ?action=titleindex gives you all titles of all pages.
[00:41] <ace_suares> on the wiki
[00:42] <ace_suares> there's about 185 that start with edu
[00:43] <sbalneav> wiki.edubuntu.org?
[00:45] <ace_suares> ehhh wiki.ubuntu.com i think, but it's the same
[00:46] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring?action=raw
[00:46] <ace_suares> that page uses a refresh and not the moinmoin way of redirecting, like this one dies
[00:46] <ace_suares> dies=does
[00:46] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki
[00:47] <sbalneav> I'm working on writing the perl script to do the initial conversion from docbook -> wiki
[00:47] <ace_suares> great!
[00:47] <ace_suares> so there was nothing availble for conversion?
[00:47] <ace_suares> too bad
[00:48] <ace_suares> i fixed https://wiki.edubuntu.org/CategoryCleanup, it now shows a list of pages. it was easy.
[00:48] <sbalneav> There was, but it's horribly broken.  So, I'm fixing it.
[00:48] <ace_suares> nice
[00:49] <ace_suares> in that list there is none for edubuntu i think
[00:51] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam/Ideas/MoinToDocIdeas
[00:52] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HelpOnXmlPages#Rendering DocBook
[04:21] <sbalneav> ace_suares: pages look nice.  Good job!
[04:23] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: link?
[04:24]  * Ahmuck gets big sticker out
[04:24] <Ahmuck> sharpens ends of stick and prods sbalneav
[04:24] <Ahmuck> LINK !
[04:26] <sbalneav> BAH
[04:26]  * sbalneav rubs *ss
[04:26] <sbalneav> Sorry, was in #ltsp
[04:26] <ace_suares> hi there
[04:26] <sbalneav> ace posted them earlier :)
[04:26] <sbalneav> Seems I've pissed off r. Scott Belford :)
[04:26] <ace_suares> heheh
[04:27] <Ahmuck> link to wiki?
[04:27] <ace_suares> probably not the first time :-)
[04:27] <sbalneav> I've apologied on the list for my passion, and sent him a personal note too.
[04:27] <sbalneav> ace_suares: I pissed you off the other day.  Look how that turned out :) We have a new wiki maintainer :)
[04:27] <ace_suares> good enough :-) you seem nice rnowadays :-)
[04:27] <ace_suares> sorry nicer nowadays :-)
[04:28] <sbalneav> I'm *ALWAYS* nice.
[04:28] <Ahmuck> ace_suares: link to wiki
[04:28] <sbalneav> But I'm also passionate, and not afraid to speak my mind.
[04:28]  * ace_suares nows in awe for the lightning ray of niceness
[04:28] <ace_suares> oh Ahmuck
[04:28] <ace_suares> sorry
[04:28] <ace_suares> eh
[04:28] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/CategoryEdubuntu/
[04:29] <sbalneav> My attitude is: if I don't tell you what I think, how you gonna know?
[04:29] <ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCleanupEffort
[04:29] <ace_suares> but the wiki is very very slow
[04:29] <ace_suares> very
[04:29] <sbalneav> Besides, look at it this way.  I respect all of you enough to be honest with you all.
[04:30] <ace_suares> hey sbalneav I am back and found a way to cope, let's stop talking about personal attitude, I am not the most tactful person either.
[04:30] <ace_suares> I am glad we are getting some work done now :-)
[04:31] <ace_suares> Ahmuck:  can you get the https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCleanupEffort page to open? Scotty ?
[04:31] <sbalneav> Far as I'm concerned, I succeeded.  I complained, I got us one new contributer.  Mission Accomplished :)
[04:32] <sbalneav> No, slow here too.
[04:32] <sbalneav> Maybe canonical's doing some cleanup?
[04:32] <sbalneav> ...hey wait, are you saying I'M NOT TACTFUL?!?!?!?!?  :D
[04:32] <sbalneav> hehehe
[04:33] <ace_suares> sbalneav: yes that you did!
[04:33] <ace_suares> i mean succeed. It might be a side effect though.
[04:34] <ace_suares> I think its all the searches in that page.
[04:35] <sbalneav> dunno.  Didn't see the page source.
[04:35] <ace_suares> sbalneav: i did and i tell you :-)
[04:36] <ace_suares> lots of searches like fullsearch(CategoryEdubuntuProposedForRemoval)
[04:37] <ace_suares> Cant' really work this way, going to sleep. I did categorize all 50 or so topics on CategoryEdubuntu
[04:37] <ace_suares> Will wathc the effects tomorrow
[04:37] <ace_suares> Sleep now
[04:37] <ace_suares> bye all
[04:37] <ace_suares> by scot
[04:38] <sbalneav> vagrantc: It would be interesting to try doing a "sysctl ... vm.overcommit_memory = 1"  somewhere before pulse starts up
[04:38] <sbalneav> ah
[05:25] <sbalneav> Hm, looks like there IS a debian-edu irc channel.
[05:25] <sbalneav> exiting to update my irssi config...
[07:44] <nubae> sbalneav, ping
[13:52]  * ogra sighs about ace_suares
[14:18] <sbalneav> nubae: pong
[15:27] <Ahmuck> *yawn*
[15:27] <Ahmuck> good morning
[16:18] <sbalneav> Morning Ahmuck
[16:20] <mhall119> morning
[16:28] <ace_suares> hi all
[17:07] <ogra> ace_suares, you seem to just have done a fulltext search for "edubuntu", https://wiki.edubuntu.org/wiki/MergerPlan definately is an official QA spec describing the categorization implementation on the wiki and the merge into a single wiki instance, please take it off the list
[17:08] <ogra> ace_suares, the same goes for https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/EdubuntuBOF its is an implemented spec and needs to stay as documentation for the implementation that was done
[17:10] <ogra> specs are the documentation of ubuntus development process, if there are obsolete ones, mark them as such in launchpad but dont delete them from the wiki, feel free to move them to another namespace if thats better in your view but dont forget to update all the links from LP
[17:10] <ogra> (that last sentece only goes for *edubuntu* specifc specs indeed)
[18:17] <Lns> http://www.opensourceforamerica.org/ - something for people in the US to check out for advocacy of open source in America - this means schools!
[18:18]  * Lns just became a member
[18:20] <ace_suares> Hi Lns!
[18:20] <Lns> hey ace_suares !
[18:20] <Lns> hey man, thanks so much for the work you're doing on the wiki, that is fantastic
[18:20] <ace_suares> ogra re wike mergerplan should there then be a spec in launchpad????
[18:21] <ogra> ace_suares, so the point is, the blueprint system of launchpad is deliberately designed in a way that you cant delete specs from it
[18:21] <ace_suares> Lns thats why I am doing it - to get praise - thansk !!! :_))))))
[18:21] <ogra> ace_suares, that *is* the spec
[18:21] <ace_suares> ogra how is it that some specs are in launchpad and some are not???
[18:21] <ogra> its just been written earlier than the CategorySpec entry exists
[18:22] <ace_suares> ogra I dont mean category spec i mean ,most specs I found are on launcpad too
[18:22] <ace_suares> this one not? is that okay?
[18:22] <ogra> yes, it was likely created at a time where the spec system on LP wasnt widely used
[18:22] <ace_suares> i changed to EdubuntuSpec and Spec categories.
[18:23] <ogra> be very careful with the specs before 2006, i think there we started to use LP
[18:23] <ogra> its deliberate that you cant delete then from LP
[18:23] <ace_suares> ogra should we create launchpad specs for those then or just leave it this way?
[18:24] <ogra> since a spec either defines something thats missing or documents something that was developed at some point
[18:24] <ogra> just leave them alone
[18:24] <ace_suares> ogra wel at least add EdubuntuSpec and Spec categories, yes?
[18:24] <ogra> well, there are no actual EdubuntuSpec's
[18:25] <ogra> Edubuntu specs are supposed to be ubuntu specs
[18:25] <ace_suares> okay then just CategorySpec then and leave it at that ?
[18:25] <ogra> but that was only defined after the first time the spec system was actually used
[18:25]  * ace_suares sighs
[18:25] <ogra> which is the reason that you see EdubuntuSpec on some
[18:25] <ace_suares> EdubuntuSpec, i made that ogra
[18:26] <ace_suares> it wasnt there before
[18:26] <ogra> there is a namespace in the wiki
[18:26] <ogra> i dont mean the tag
[18:26] <ace_suares> you lsot me
[18:26] <ace_suares> lost
[18:26] <ogra> wiki...blah/EdubuntuSpecBlupp
[18:27] <ogra> namespace in the url ;)
[18:27] <ace_suares> huh?
[18:28] <ogra> at some point we prefixed all our specs with EdubuntuSpec
[18:28] <ogra> in the url
[18:28] <ace_suares> when i do a full search on edubuntuspec i dont' see any of those with that in the url!
[18:28] <ogra> they were probably renamed by the docteam
[18:29] <ace_suares> ogra so what do i need to do or change then ???
[18:29] <ogra> docteam did several runs of major cleanup
[18:30] <ogra> looking at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/CategoryEdubuntuSpec ...
[18:30] <ogra> wiki/MergerPlan needs to go
[18:30] <ace_suares> I made that ogra
[18:30] <ace_suares> okay
[18:30] <ace_suares> just make it CategorySpec then ?
[18:31] <ogra> UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/EdubuntuBOF as well ..
[18:31] <ogra> (from that list that is)
[18:31] <ace_suares> yeah those two I will change now
[18:31] <ogra> for the others check against LP
[18:31] <ace_suares> there is one not in LP the others are.
[18:31] <ogra> if there is really no entry on LP feel free to delete them
[18:32] <ogra> which one ?
[18:32] <ace_suares> i just as well leave that one there.
[18:32] <ogra> ah, i think you said DedicatedLTSPSSH
[18:32] <ace_suares> yes
[18:32] <ace_suares> that one
[18:32]  * ogra remembers, that was submitted by someone not attending a UDS 
[18:33] <ogra> and that at a time where remote participation wasnt possible yet
[18:33] <ace_suares> just leave it there.
[18:34] <ogra> yeah, generally i wouldnt touch specs at all
[18:34] <ogra> ots a hilarious amount of work to make sur eto not break the backlinks
[18:35] <ace_suares> no it isnt becasue i am not moving them anywhere i stated that already
[18:35] <ace_suares> I just wanted to know
[18:35] <ogra> you could go over the ones with Edubuntu in the name and rename them .. but update the LP entries accordingly
[18:35] <ogra> to clean up the Edubuntu namespace on the wiki
[18:35] <ace_suares> 1. what to do with old specs that never got approved (see http://edubuntu.opcuracao.info/)
[18:36] <ogra> nothing
[18:36] <ace_suares> 2. what to do with the ones that are not in LP
[18:36] <ace_suares> you answered both questions then :-)
[18:36] <ogra> right
[18:36] <ogra> though i agree that cleaning up the namespace would make sense
[18:37] <ogra> so if you search for pages with Edubuntu in the title you actually find recent stuff
[18:37] <ace_suares> So, all specs specific to Edubutu are now in CategoryEdubuntuSpec and if they where in CategorySpec they are there too,
[18:37] <ace_suares> ogra i dont want to spend time to rename the spec pages unless its absolutely needed
[18:38] <ace_suares> because of the extra work in the backlinks
[18:38] <ogra> right, understood
[18:38] <ogra> btw, do you know about launchpadlib ? :)
[18:38] <ace_suares> you cna also do a seach on edubuntu and do a -CategoryEdubuntuSpec which leaves them out...
[18:38] <ace_suares> what is launchpadlib?
[18:38] <ogra> it has interfaces in differern languages to achieve waht you did with your script ...
[18:39] <ogra> not sure there is a launchpadlib-ruby though i never used ruby
[18:39] <ace_suares> ogra let the developers mull over that then :-) it would be really good if UbuntuSpec in moin moin would be enhanced
[18:39] <ogra> write a spec ;)
[18:40] <ace_suares> ogra even more complications... yahooo!
[18:40] <ogra> and get some votes on brainstorm.ubuntu.com
[18:40] <ogra> so it gets attention
[18:40] <ace_suares> ha ha brainstorm
[18:40] <ogra> dont know it ?
[18:40] <ace_suares> i got seven votes for a 'recently changed' entry in 'places'
[18:40] <ace_suares> man windows even has that
[18:41] <ogra> ??
[18:41] <ace_suares> brainstorm is great but so many ideas that it's random how many votes you get.
[18:41]  * ogra see that when he opens places here
[18:41] <ogra> called "recent documents"
[18:41] <ace_suares> reent doucments is not is
[18:41] <ace_suares> it
[18:41] <ace_suares> oh and its not in places
[18:41] <ogra> its the docs i recently opened
[18:42] <ogra> sure it is
[18:42] <ogra> last entry in my places menu
[18:42] <ace_suares> look here http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19774/
[18:42] <ace_suares> you can vote
[18:42] <ogra> ah
[18:43] <ogra> did you take a look at zeitgeist ? i think it achieves something similar
[18:43] <ogra> and is already on its way into karmic iirc
[18:43] <ace_suares> okay thats good then
[18:43]  * ogra didnt have time this UDS to attend any desktop session
[18:43] <ace_suares> just to say that votes in brainstorm depend on how many people actually see the idea
[18:44] <ace_suares> and that is pretty few since there ar eso many new ideas every second
[18:44] <ogra> well, my team goes over brainstorm before registering specs
[18:44] <ogra> every cycle
[18:44] <ace_suares> all of them !?
[18:44] <ogra> sadly there are not so many mobile or ARM related ones
[18:45] <ace_suares> I cna add ARM MOBILE to every idea i have if you want :-)
[18:45] <ogra> we have about two weeks to suggest new specs after release and before uds starts
[18:45] <ogra> that doesnt help, it needs to be relevant for my work :P
[18:45] <ace_suares> hehehe
[18:46] <ogra> but we surely take them into account before spec registering starts
[18:46] <ogra> and i know most of the other teams too
[18:47] <ogra> the thing why you see so many unimplemented specs in your list is that we didnt have brainstorm back then ;)
[18:47] <ogra> mark is resistant to the idea to delete any requests though ... thats why they should stay there ... they express a need
[18:48] <ogra> nowadays ideas go on brainstorm ... get examined by the devs ... get turned into a spec ... get discussed at UDS ... and eventually get implemented
[18:49] <ogra> the process got cleaner on the go
[18:49] <ogra> back then it was "register a spec" if someone asked for an enhancement
[18:50]  * ogra notices he still didnt overcome that habit ... looking at the backlog :P
[18:52] <ace_suares> hehe so okay i make a brainstorm thing instead of a spec its MUCH easier and complies with my feeling that occasional contributions should be easy to enter.
[18:54] <ogra> :)
[18:54] <ace_suares> are the specs on the wiki used in the future? or was that an old way of doing things?
[18:55] <ogra> they might ... someone might pick one up and implement it
[18:55] <ogra> and the ones that are actually implemented are the actual documentation for the existing implementation
[18:58] <ace_suares> no i mean is the way that is was done, posting spec on wiki then in lp, still the way they do it?
[18:58] <ace_suares> i mean will this be used in the future or will it stop at these specs and they are 'historical'
[18:59] <ogra> yes, thats the process and i think it will stay that way
[18:59] <ogra> specs are usually first registered on LP
[19:00] <ogra> i do create my wikipages at UDS when i take notes, but the specs need to be there before, because the lauuncpadlib based scheduler creates a schedule for UDS based on the specs and assigns slots and rooms
[19:00] <ogra> the whole UDS is driven by launchpad nowadays ...
[19:01] <ace_suares> so then we will see more specs in the future, it would be good to have a rule or such to make sure the specs habe theiur proer place in the wiki, what do you propose? or what's the rule if there is already one?
[19:01] <ogra> the wiki is simply used because its the best way to collabortaively take notes
[19:01] <ogra> i think its wiki..../Spec/
[19:01] <ogra> and indeed CategorySpec for people that mess up the url
[19:02] <ogra> which still happens at times
[19:03] <ogra> heh, i just stumbled over a spec i registered on stgraber's behalf that was never written but is implemented
[19:04] <ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/improve-netbooting-with-udhcp
[19:04] <ogra> since wednesday
[19:04] <ace_suares> ha ha now you have to create a wiki page for it with the correct url :-)
[19:04] <ogra> nah
[19:04] <ogra> it was just "move that crap to main so ltsp can depend on it"
[19:05] <ogra> and its not my spec
[19:05] <ogra> i dont work on ltsp or edubuntu
[19:05] <ace_suares> look at this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/CategorySpec
[19:05] <ogra> what i do on either is done in my spare time
[19:06] <ogra> if that ever loads, that must be a huge amount of pages
[19:06] <ogra> ah, there it is
[19:06] <ace_suares> 1599 pages
[19:06] <ogra> yeah
[19:07] <ogra> and already a good bunch of them under /Specs/
[19:07] <ace_suares> yeah I wish someone had a good rule for that then i could if i have spare time move those relating to edubuntu to the correct namespace
[19:08] <ogra> well, many teams put it in their team namespace
[19:08] <ace_suares> now we talking about it for 30 mins or more and still no task emerges. We need tasks, clearly described so we can DO stuff instead of discuss.
[19:08] <ogra> look at the desktop team
[19:13] <ace_suares> yeah the desktop team... we should do then Edubuntu/Specs/BlaDiBla
[19:13] <ace_suares> is that the rule?
[19:17] <ogra> for new specs it is
[19:19] <ace_suares> now we know why wiki is slow
[19:19] <ace_suares> Denis: some concern here that trojans may have been uploaded to your wiki server and are being sent out as linkspam
[19:19] <ace_suares> Denis: my ubuntu / firefox refuses to download, but I'm not even going to try firing up a windows machine and testing with explorer
[19:19] <ace_suares> Flannel: yeah, its a virus
[19:19] <ace_suares> (ubuntu-doc)
[19:22] <Lns> most times, when someone thinks their linux box has a virus/trojan/malware...its just a bug ;)
[19:23] <ace_suares> its confirmed
[19:25] <ace_suares> speaking of this, i sometimes get a 300x300px rectangle in my top tight edge of the screen. It is very unclear where it comes from and i think it's firefox/flash related. If this where a windows machine i'd be very concerned, I am still concerned since it's a new phenomena
[19:33] <ace_suares> you can vote now ogra http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20786/ :-)
[20:13] <Lns> When I installed GCompris, there were some options within the interface that require you to install additional packages (such as gnucap) otherwise they won't run (gcompris tells you what you have to do). Do you guys think it would be sane to file a bug report against gcompris for including things like gnucap so you don't have to worry about it?
[20:14] <Lns> (Jaunty amd64 btw)
[20:24] <humbolt> how do I do group authentication with the least amount of work
[20:25] <humbolt> group auth? I mean network auth.
[20:28] <Lns> humbolt, you mean like ldap or active directory?
[20:28] <humbolt> Lns: thelike
[20:28] <humbolt> Lns: But I want this effortless
[20:29] <Lns> humbolt, why do you need network auth if you want it to be really simple? why not just use passwd?
[20:29] <humbolt> Lns: And at best well integrated into admin tools already available.
[20:29] <humbolt> Lns: because I have roaming users?
[20:30] <Lns> oooh.. *forgets that some people don't use ltsp*
[20:30] <humbolt> Lns: I have many users and many machines. I am running LTSP currently, but I want more speed.
[20:30] <humbolt> Lns: and multimedia
[20:30] <Lns> humbolt, if you have an existing windows domain it might be easy to set up auth through that
[20:30] <humbolt> Lns: no windows domain
[20:31] <Lns> well you could do LDAP, AD, or even NIS...
[20:31] <Lns> "Effortless"...probably not. But it will be stable once you get it set up, which is quite better than effortless then breaking later on
[20:33] <humbolt> Lns: It would be nice, if I could still use the gnome user admin tool to create new accounts
[20:33] <Lns> unfortunately, users-admin doesn't support anything like that.. and it's going away afaik
[20:36] <Lns> humbolt, A lot of times I use KUser - it supports LDAP, which is better than nothing..unfortunately i dunno how to set up an LDAP auth for that stuff
[20:43] <humbolt> Do PolicyKit and LDAP play together nicely?
[20:45] <Lns> no clue :(
[20:49] <humbolt> It seems DistroHeads are not aware of their should-be primary target market
[20:55] <Lns> distroheads?...
[20:58] <Lns> humbolt, it sounds like you are interested in Edubuntu. Would you like to help contribute to make it better?
[20:58] <humbolt> heads of distros
[20:58] <humbolt> probably
[20:59] <Lns> humbolt, https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members#active
[20:59] <Lns> You are more than welcome to join us to make it better!! :)
[20:59] <Lns> We need contributors - there are no paid staff to develop Edubuntu.
[21:02] <humbolt> Canonical should rather invest it's money in Edubuntu's market segment than in the Desktop market.
[21:04] <humbolt> Would make so much sense, especially when you think of all the kids starting into the computer world with Ubuntu instead of MS.
[21:05] <humbolt> I sure would like to contribute. I am thinking about contributing to nubae's FAT client attempts.
[21:05] <humbolt> This is the most promising market.
[21:06] <humbolt> Lns: Netbooks and Nettops all around. All we need is easy network auth and ways to manage all these machines.
[21:06] <humbolt> Possibly netboot and net-root them.
[21:06] <humbolt> anyways, got to go.
[21:06] <humbolt> cu
[21:08] <Lns> sbalneav, weren't you working on edubuntu-ldap-auth or some such a little while ago?
[21:13] <sbalneav> Yes, I was.  Sabayon's been consuming most of my cycles these days.
[21:21] <Lns> understood =) Was just curious.
[22:07] <ace_suares> b
[22:13] <atomic007za> hi
[22:30] <ace_suares> hi atomic007za
[22:34] <atomic007za> hey Ace
[22:36] <atomic007za> how would I turn the sound off for all SDL driven apps?
[23:53] <atomic007za> how would I turn the sound off for all SDL driven apps?@ boot time