[00:00] :) [00:02] not kicked yet? lol getting kicked out off channel where I didnt say a word, now I final can watch my sere [00:03] Riddell: can you remember tomorrow or when you have time to upload kipi-plugins and digikam ? :) thx [00:04] lex79: where are they? [00:04] Riddell: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/digikam/+bug/401231 [00:04] Ubuntu bug 401231 in digikam "Merge digikam 1.0.0~beta2 with debian unstable" [Undecided,New] [00:04] and [00:04] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kipi-plugins/+bug/395481 [00:04] Ubuntu bug 395481 in kipi-plugins "Merge kipi-plugins 0.4.0-1 with debian unstable" [Undecided,New] [00:09] JontheEchidna: qtcurve new upstream release, one a day :) [00:10] changing fonts for gtk apps is borken here on a fresh karmic install [00:15] Riddell: want to add some ubiquity tasks to the todo? [00:18] shtylman: oh aye [00:33] neversfelde: oh? I'd be interested to hear about that [00:43] shtylman: good [00:43] dood, it works and it is the bling [00:43] :) [00:43] I cleaned up the map a bit too..to make it match the gtk side [00:44] still need to implement the keyboard display feature... [00:46] I've not seen that [00:46] which part? [00:46] keyboard display [00:46] yea [00:46] its not done [00:46] shtylman: what happens during the install, is it still full screen? [00:46] yep [00:47] it is ALWAYS full screen...but you have the option to minimize... [00:47] which reminds me..I need to remove that option from the install only choice [00:47] when not in a live session... [00:48] has seele looked at it at all? [00:48] looked at what? [00:49] dunno [00:49] seele: ubiquity [00:49] the new one? i didnt see it when i installed the latest karmic iso [00:49] it looked like the old one [00:49] yea...you have to get it separately... [00:50] it didn't make it to this iso [00:50] how do i get it separately? and can i run it in jaunty or karmic only? [00:50] karmic only [00:50] it needs latest pyqt stuff [00:50] ... i just...what? i just sent an identi.ca update with the plasmoid and it went to /dev/null instead [00:51] *question*: does the microblogging plasmoid work for anybody? [00:51] kdetwitter or choqok? [00:51] kdetwitter seems to eat my RAMs so i never use it [00:51] microblog plasmoid worked for me [00:52] choqok was buggy so i stopped using that [00:52] maco: use the jabber identi.ca thing [00:52] then you can just have a buddy in kopete to send messages to for updates [00:52] kdetwitter, i guess [00:52] whatever the thing on the desktop is [00:52] and you can subscribe to them [00:52] shtylman: so how do i get ubiquity? [00:53] lp:~shtylman/ubiquity/kde_themeing [00:53] lp:? [00:53] i wonder if gwibber works again yet... i wanted to use the plasmoids so i can have 1 that's me and 1 that's ohio linuxfest...using gwibber id have to switch who i'm posting as constantly [00:53] seele: bzr branch [00:53] uh... [00:53] is there a package? [00:53] hmm... Riddell ^ [00:54] got one in a ppa? ... I never put mine up... [00:54] seele: we shall see :) [00:55] I have some screenshots up at: http://shtylman.com/stuff/kubuntu_installer/version4/ [00:57] I don't have packages [00:57] maybe best if we just merge it and get it uploaded and have CDs to play with [00:57] hmm.. why lowercase text in the progress labels? [00:58] i think i would like to see better positional feedback on the current progress item too [00:59] damnit, really need a copy of photoshop [01:01] seele: lowercase text because it looks nice... :) doesn't make anything stand out too much [01:01] seele: what do you mean by positional feedback? [01:01] git send-pack kernel.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/dtchen/ubuntu-karmic.git lp398059 [01:02] bah, sorry [01:02] shtylman: you are using color to indicate which part of the process the user is on, imo that's not strong enough [01:02] :) [01:02] The "Kubuntu Karmic" in the top left corner should eventually say "Kubuntu 9.10" since we have a policy against not exposing the codename to the poor end users ;-P [01:02] and i dunno if the lowercase text looks nice, especially when the matching label in the content window is in uppercase [01:02] JontheEchidna: really? did...know that... :( [01:03] they would have to match, but then it doesnt really fit with the rest of the text. it is a nice device, but i dont think it should be used here [01:03] shtylman: no biggie. I must admin it looks nice with karmic there [01:03] seele: I can look at underline or something like that...but I do understand the accessibility concern... [01:03] shtylman: i'm in the process of mocking up something [01:03] k [01:03] underlines are bad because they confuse users with web stuff [01:03] *admit [01:03] k [01:05] shtylman: "Partition" should probably be "Hard Disks" or omething else non-technical [01:06] * shtylman personally hates it when people assume normal users can't be bothered to learn some common terms and understand what they mean [01:06] 1) it is inaccurate because you might not need to partition anything [01:07] 2) depending on what option you select, you might not even see the word partition [01:07] 3) why burden the user with becoming an expert in computing if all they want to do is look at facebook? [01:07] by using something *non -technical* we keep users in the dark forever...that being said... I just sorta picked partition...for no real good reason.. [01:08] how is it the dark if they never need it? [01:08] why does the user need to know how the computer works? they dont. they just need to use it [01:08] but hard-disk doesn't really say anything to me either really... [01:08] then think of something better, but partition is not accurate and not appropriate [01:08] but I will change it to whatever yall find appropriate :) [01:08] "Installation Setup" perhaps? [01:08] too long [01:09] "Setup" :P [01:09] some of these things are going to translate pretty long [01:09] or Disk Setup or something [01:09] yea...but for the general case (of english) that one is really long [01:09] I like disk setup [01:09] :) [01:10] I like disk setup alot :) [01:10] me too [01:10] was about to type it as i read backscroll [01:11] hmm.. also.. i really don't like using Info, it looks unprofessional [01:11] what about User Details? [01:13] yea...possibly... [01:13] info just makes it more...informal...more...social :) [01:14] * shtylman found a 59 page paper about the evolution of c++ by Bjarne ... starts reading... [01:14] *snicker* [01:14] seele "not professional! do not want!" shtylman "not professional! yay!" [01:14] :) [01:14] to each his own [01:32] shtylman: http://imagebin.ca/view/FziY62Kl.html [01:32] but it obviously needs nuno or someone to paint it [01:32] so.. notable features [01:32] seele: I might be able to just extend the current theme and center *whiter* area around the label.. [01:33] previously visited sections are smaller and lighter color font, double coded [01:33] * shtylman will need to think about it a bit... [01:33] current section has matching background to content area, and no border seperating it [01:33] I would not make them smaller [01:33] it feels unnatural to me ... at least [01:33] but go on.. [01:33] also, usually you like the best option to be the one on the bottom left corner [01:33] k [01:33] in a wizard that would be forward progress [01:34] (buttons are a carry onver from previous installer layout...but I will change that) [01:34] I agree :) [01:34] previous sections need some type of indicator that they were visited and completed, if not font treatment then maybe a check mark or something [01:35] check mark sounds a bit better..changing font size I would avoid... [01:35] it will cause the other labels to move up cause the ui will get layed out again [01:35] and other things might shift... [01:35] will cause confusion [01:35] cant you set the text box to fixed or relative height? [01:36] or statically place them? [01:36] statically placed = 1990's layouts [01:36] hmm.. could you do the layout in html? then you could use relative sizes [01:36] fixed height is better..but then might have problems with other languages [01:36] I would strongly suggest looking at checkmarks first [01:36] nope..can't do it in html [01:36] * seele shrugs [01:37] * shtylman has limitations... not saying it all isn't possible...just that with the time constrains ;) [01:37] *constraints [01:37] would not be advisible [01:38] well whatever you can do, but positional feedback is strongly advised [01:38] k [01:38] AND FIX THOSE LOWERCASE LABELS!!!! [01:38] * seele shakes her finger at shtylman [01:38] :( [01:38] * seele pats shtylman on the head [01:38] but they look so ... soo... web 2.0 ish [01:38] but ok.. will fix [01:38] aaaaaahhh!! [01:39] you've been reading too much smashingmagazine [01:39] ahahah [01:53] seele: http://imagebin.ca/view/TUKIS2.html [01:53] just a quick workup on the "tab" [01:56] I even kinda like how the text got pulled in a bit [01:56] really makes the current entry stand out... === m4v_ is now known as m4v [02:05] shtylman: yes, much better. thanks [02:05] :) [02:12] seele: did 9.04 have a more direct way to add launchers to the desktop than 9.10? im walking a new user through it and he said he has right click -> "add link to application" but on 9.10 all i can find to do it is to add a quicklaunch, drag the quicklaunch to the desktop, then configure it [02:14] maco: no idea, i dont think i've ever done that [02:14] well if he's right, then im against whatever change got rid of making that obvious [02:15] also, i think kickoff should be exposed in the "add widget" thing as something other than "application launcher" because that sounds like "add a button for firefox" [02:57] neversfelde: I'm going to bed, but pong [03:14] I just noticed, why don't we have an rss feed for kubuntu.org that we can put on the Planet? [03:35] sure [06:03] birthdaylogger: akonadiconsole should either not be in the default install or not be in the development section of the menu. Pick one. I don't care which. [06:07] It'd be nice if some MOTU would review/upload http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/xz-utils so we can get to work on getting lzma support in ark. [06:10] nixternal: We do use UNRELEASED in bzr if something isn't to be uploaded right away. [06:22] well Riddell merged it in the meantime [06:22] ScottK: do you know what the proper thing to request merges to are? [06:23] A ping here with a link to your branch works. [06:23] The merge request thingy notifies appropriate people too. [06:24] maco: Please get yourself made a Kubuntu member very soon so you can just committ to bzr. [06:24] Riddell said ~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/hardy/sudo/hardy-proposed wasn't something he could merge and upload to, he had to branch it then make a source package and upload as normal [06:25] but i thought it was supposed to get easier...where sponsor folk could merge it to whats released and tell it to rebuild with that [06:25] ScottK: how come kubuntu members has a bzr and ubuntu-members doesn't? [06:26] Because we decided to do it this way and they didn't? [06:26] hehe ok [06:33] You asked. [06:33] maco: The full stuff with uploads based on bzr isn't ready yet. [06:33] We're still using our bzr repos of just the debian dirs. [06:36] ah so its planned but WIP? [06:38] i dont remember http://blogs.computerworld.com/ubuntu_to_make_linux_application_installation_idiot_proof at UDS [06:39] Yes. [06:40] maco: It was discussed. [06:40] * ScottK didn't pay attention since it sounded Gnomish. [06:41] heh probably what i did as well [06:42] * ScottK declares it bedtime. [06:43] ditto. gotta catch the train in 4 hours [06:50] Morning all === ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Alpha-3 released | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | We need paperKuts! https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts [10:55] JontheEchidna: I can change fonts of firefox, when using Raleigh, but not with QtCurve. I thnk I should test it with another GTK app, but I have none :) [11:08] neversfelde: try gimp [11:12] same problem [11:33] is there kde 4.3 RC3 in jaunty backports? [11:33] ulysses__: it's about to arrive [11:34] thanks Riddell [11:40] I'm about to hit the button to update [11:40] i've updated my karmic yet [11:52] * Trouble is now running KDE 4.2.98 (KDE 4.3 RC3) in Jaunty [11:53] yay [11:54] .o/ [11:54] \o. [11:54] \o/ [11:57] * ulysses__ is running KDE 4.2.98 in Karmic === birthdaylogger is now known as apachelogger [11:59] yay [12:00] intarwebs is back :D [12:00] * apachelogger got no landline or mobile connection for 12 hours [12:00] darn storms [12:00] it's a hint that you should be out celebrating being older [12:01] well, I only noticed when I got home anyway ;-) [12:03] ScottK: judging from krake's feedback I suppose moving it from development to system is the way to go [12:17] neversfelde: all good installing 4.2.98 here [12:17] I'll announce [12:19] :) [12:20] Kubuntu: apachelogger * r9 kdepim-runtime/debian/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [12:20] Kubuntu: Add kubuntu_01_akonadiconsole_to_system.diff moving akondiconsole from [12:20] Kubuntu: the Development category of the menu to System [12:20] hello CIA-31, where did you come from? [12:25] from the CIA obviously :P [12:25] Riddell: I added it, though I find the concept of bzr-to-cia kinda weird [12:26] why? [12:26] it needs setup per machine which is a hassle [12:26] actually [12:26] per branch [12:27] which is even more of a hassle [12:28] mmm [12:32] * apachelogger thinks someone should fix the nm applet :| [12:33] is there a chance to have an installable kde-devel package for 4.3? It still is held back in RC3 [12:35] neversfelde: fancy taking that on? ^^ [12:35] shtylman: shall we get your code merged? [12:36] shtylman: it struck me we should look at the accessibility side, that can often suffer when you use custom colours and graphics for widgets [12:37] Riddell: I have to go out for a few hours, but will have a look at it after I return [12:55] aww, agateau left just as I was causing his stuff to crash [12:58] Riddell: was a minor issue. I uploaded a fixed meta-kde package to ninjas, because there is no bzr branch [13:01] groovy, copy it over to backports ppa when you think it's good [13:17] apachelogger: Sounds good. I think settings catagory should also die. [13:22] neversfelde: QtCurve gets its fonts from KDE, so you may have a bit of trouble there [13:24] Mamarok: you are on Jaunty? [13:24] JontheEchidna: changing fonts for KDE works without problems [13:24] nhandler: We do have an RSS feed, we just need to edit the planet configs... [13:25] ryanakca: Ok, I must have missed it. Is there a reason it never got on the Planet? If not, lets add it :) [13:25] JontheEchidna: but changing them one time and back solved the problem with gtk apps. Weird. [13:25] nhandler: Nope, nobody ever got around to it. Did you want to do it or shall I? [13:25] ryanakca: I can take care of it. [13:26] nhandler: Lovely, thanks [13:26] neversfelde: it might be wise, that when QtCurve is set, to tell users that QtCurve uses the KDE fonts. what do you think? [13:27] yes, a good idea [13:28] apachelogger: I'm going to push 0.5.1 today after I implement ^ [13:28] Mamarok: I have to go. Would you test installing kde-devel from the staging ppa, if you are on Jaunty. Thanks. [13:29] neversfelde: ok, will do :) [13:37] ryanakca: Do we have any decent Kubuntu logo that can be used as the hackergotchi? [13:38] ryanakca: wibble, RC 3 is on http://www.kubuntu.org/ but follow the link and it doesn't work [13:41] ryanakca: wibble, it's utterly broken now [13:43] ryanakca: phew, think I got it sorted [13:53] Riddell: OK, *checks* [13:53] Riddell: woah, the link is broken... [13:55] Riddell: Are you editing it at the moment? I don't want to change something and overwrite your stuff, or vice versa [13:56] Nevermind, it works :) [13:59] ryanakca: i'm done [14:02] ScottK: qtconfig is already gone and JontheEchidna will push 0.5.1 of kcm-gtk today === apachelogger is now known as apachelogger_ === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger [14:04] So do we have an icon suitable for a hackergotchi? Or should I just leave it without one? [14:05] nhandler: icon for what? [14:05] apachelogger: The Planet [14:06] planet? [14:06] Ubuntu [14:06] * apachelogger is clearly not up-to-date [14:06] I was going to add kubuntu.org to planet.ubuntu.com so more people see what we post there [14:06] ah [14:07] oh well [14:07] then we ought to post more than one sentence consisting of 90% links :P [14:07] * apachelogger pokes Riddell for that [14:08] apachelogger: Great. I think the gtk thingy was the last one I had. [14:11] neversfelde: there is no kde-devel package in the staging ppa [14:11] ok, I have the following problems with RC3: http://pastebin.com/m734d83ac [14:12] does planet.ubuntu have a policy on non-personal blogs? [14:13] Riddell: Not that I have seen. I know we have several similar team blogs listed there [14:14] Launchpad's announcements get in, why not ours? :) [14:14] true [14:14] Ubuntu Studio is also there [14:16] neversfelde, Riddell: why is there no bindings backport? [14:17] apachelogger: everyone is too scared to try it [14:17] needs sip and pyqt too [14:17] well [14:17] ruby aint is needing either of them :P [14:18] * apachelogger wants to port his synergy plasmoid to a popupapplet [14:22] Mamarok: it is meta-kde [14:24] is there nything in the kubuntu-backports ppa that i likely will not want? [14:24] ie: is it save to upgrade to RC3? [14:28] Nightrose: koffice2 ? [14:28] that's ok [14:29] * Nightrose upgrades her eeepc and hopes for the best [14:29] I think there is nothing more than that [14:31] I think RC3 packages are not built at all [14:32] ? [14:32] Nightrose: upgrade to RC3 tries to remove multiple important packages by the momment, wait for some hour [14:32] for karmic? [14:33] ScottK: juk, or not juk, that is the question [14:33] For netbook? [14:33] yes [14:33] EagleScreen: lex79 and Blizzz tested it for jaunty yesterday, it was ok [14:34] though, TBH, lately amarok is giving more of a headache than KDE 4.0 did [14:34] and 4.0 did a lot [14:34] it wants to remove kdeplasma-addons-data [14:34] is that ok? [14:35] I added the Kubuntu feed to Planet Ubuntu. If someone has a suitable hackergotchi, please go ahead and add it (Instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu) [14:41] nhandler: kubuntu logo? [14:41] err, the icon part of the logo [14:41] there are 4 packages that are not opdated to RC3: [14:41] kdebase-workspace-bin [14:41] kdepim-runtime [14:41] plasma-scriptengine-webkit [14:41] plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba [14:42] these stop the upgrade [14:42] wait for some hours and they should be updates too [14:43] eh [14:43] neversfelde: well, I would never have searched for that [14:43] ii kdepim-runtime 4:4.2.98-0ubuntu1~jaunty1~ppa2 PIM runtime components from the official KDE 4 release [14:43] i am talking about karmic, not jaunty [14:43] oh [14:43] EagleScreen: worked without flaws here [14:43] like anyone cares about karmic? [14:44] that beast is broken beyond repair anyway [14:44] i am talking about amd64, other archs may have packages updated yet [14:44] EagleScreen: we are talking about Jaunty here [14:44] going for launch, see u later [14:45] ScottK: the only other option is qmmp, which is cool and got all the features you want but that winamp-clone-interface is just horrible [14:45] juk just needs some config changes to be half-way decent [14:45] apachelogger: It is blurry, I was wondering if we had anything else, otherwise I guess we can use it [14:46] + it doesn't crash, eat your mem and updates it's database properly [14:46] nhandler: how can it be blurry? [14:46] apachelogger: I'm not at all an expert on the media player stuff, so whatever everyone else thinks, I'm good with. [14:47] ScottK: amarok takes like 15 seconds to start [14:47] Not good. [14:47] even from splash end to GUI it's a couple of seconds [14:49] apachelogger: Tonio_ was looking at YANIHP for music player on netbook [14:50] the Amarok people seem to think it's entirely suited to netbooks too [14:50] whoa what's going on? replacing amarok? [14:51] well, we can give YANIHP a shot [14:51] Riddell: the name is quite a PITA though [14:52] true [14:52] yuriy: for Netbook possibly [14:52] any strong reason to? I think it'd be a big loss even for netbooks [14:52] Riddell: yup, I recently tested, but it's not polished enough for integration... [14:53] I tried to patch a bit, but there's too much to do [14:53] EagleScreen: kdepim-runtime retrying, kdebase-workspace should be in though [14:53] i would say a default configuration without the context view would be good though for netbooks [14:53] Let's try Juk with apachelogger's config magic applied and see how it is. [14:53] Tonio_: also, it is entirely done by fred [14:53] so from a maintenance point of view juk got a clear advantage there [14:53] apachelogger: yep [14:53] just by juk being in KDE svn it is ahead :D [14:53] yuriy: long startup time, busy UI [14:54] my only concern with juk is that it won't work with m4a files... -> itunes and so on [14:54] just depend on taglib-extras [14:54] but for several reasons, YANIHP isn't ready, and fairly unmaintained [14:54] unless juk blacklists m4a manually, which would need to be patched [14:54] apachelogger: nope that's on the code [14:55] Tonio_: reading should all be done by taglib, shouldn't it? [14:55] apachelogger: unfortunatelly no [14:55] so what is in the code? [14:55] apachelogger: there's some loop to parse using taglib, for mp3 files and so on [14:55] this code ain't there for m4a [14:55] well, just add it :P [14:56] taglib still is doing most of the work [14:56] I started to write it, but that's well among what I can do with C++ :) [14:56] juk uses the same taglib as amarok [14:56] I could parse, and get a segfault [14:56] also same playing backend via phonon [14:56] Tonio_: that is something :) [14:56] Riddell: from what I've seen in the code, it's not that simple [14:56] anyway, I find it quite weird that juk reimplements the same loop for every codec [14:56] Riddell: and probably patching juk would make more sense on that point [14:56] kinda ... well ... eh ... bad design [14:57] apachelogger: I was talking about yanihp there [14:57] maybe patching juk for this purpose would be easier [14:57] technically there is no need for patching in juk [14:57] apachelogger: hum great then [14:57] if juk does it like amarok it will just go through the collection folders and throw every file at taglib and see if the lib spits out anything useful [14:58] simply put that is ;-) [14:58] then we should go for juk [14:58] Tonio_: do you have a m4a file for testing? [14:58] we still have to choose for an irc client [14:58] * Tonio_ is all for konversation [14:58] apachelogger: I only have m4a files :) [14:58] lemme test [14:58] Tonio_: make sure taglib-extras is installed [14:58] standard taglib does not contain the plugins [14:58] apachelogger: yep [14:59] apachelogger: I know that :) [14:59] just making sure ;-) [15:00] apachelogger: nope, it will only find mp3 files :/ [15:00] then it probably blacklists m4a [15:01] apachelogger: we have to look at the code on that point [15:01] * apachelogger does the config right now [15:01] oh dear, juk also uses this weird GUI config string like dolphin [15:01] apachelogger: we have to change the view by default too, to enable the artist/album thing [15:01] apachelogger: I'll fix kds [15:02] knds for now [15:02] artist album thing? [15:04] Tonio_: I agree that we should put the cahnges in knds for now. [15:04] ScottK: yup [15:06] Kubuntu: apachelogger * r10 kubuntu-netbook-default-settings/ (share/config/jukrc debian/changelog): Add jukrc (showing Play Queue and History in the sidebar) [15:06] ScottK: ^ that ought to be tested [15:06] apachelogger: Maybe Tonio_ can do it. I'm slammed with $WORK today. [15:06] kk [15:07] Tonio_: ^ test [15:07] Tonio_: btw, we need to patch it to use $HOME/Music by default [15:08] Someone should arrange for usb-creator-kde to get promoted so we can seed it. [15:08] apachelogger: can be configured no need to patch [15:08] Tonio_: configured? [15:09] apachelogger: yep [15:09] where? [15:09] hum, xdg folders will not help on that point :) [15:09]