/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/25/#edubuntu.txt

atomic007zaor how would set SDL_audiodriver=esd automacically when tuxtyping starts00:00
atomic007za<atomic007za> or how could I just disable sound on tuxtyping for all uses as it starts?00:00
atomic007za<atomic007za> I have not seen a conf file for this00:00
atomic007za<atomic007za> SDL soung seems to be causing a problem when more than 2 clients log in00:00
atomic007za<atomic007za> anyone?00:00
LaserJockace_suares: around?03:06
ace_suaresLaserJock now04:19
ace_suaresah u left04:20
sbalneavEvening all04:58
ace_suaresmorning13:34
ace_suaresping LaserJock13:43
ace_suaresogra why are there so many unapproved members on edubuntu team ?13:45
sbalneavBecause they applied for membership, but then never did anything tangible to help out.13:47
sbalneavMembership gives you things like voting rights on decisions, etc.13:49
sbalneavBut it's a meritocracy, so you have to "put in a little work" before you get it.13:49
ace_suaresoh so its probably a bunch of people they click 'join' cause it's so easy and then forget about it.14:14
ace_suaresand when will i become a member? Not that I want to :-) but i have to to get some work done, apparently. I am website member already, that was easy14:15
sbalneavWell, when you apply, we can vote on it.14:23
ace_suaresI apllied two days agio15:43
ace_suaressbalneav: u there15:55
ace_suaresLaserJock ping15:55
mhall119I applied before I realized there were requirements on membership16:07
ace_suaresmhall119 would you like to contribute to the website and/or wiki ?16:09
mhall119my wife is already contributing for the wiki16:09
ace_suaresoh okay16:09
ace_suareswhats her handle16:09
mhall119I'm going to be contributing to Edubuntu itself, eventually16:09
mhall119Michelle_Qimo16:10
ace_suaresmhall119 the wiki is part of Edubuntu :-)16:10
mhall119ace_suares: the project, yes, I was talking about the actual distro16:10
mhall119going to try and incorporate some of Qimo into Edubuntu16:11
ace_suaresmhall119 the docs go into the distro too :-)))16:11
mhall119I know that's the plan, are they in there already?16:11
ace_suaresi checked out qimo but I don't know what to think of it16:11
mhall119ace_suares: you're older than our target demographic16:11
mhall119:)16:11
ace_suareswhat i got was a normal desktop screen (well not gnome obviously) and I wouldnt be able to put a kid behind that thing16:11
mhall119ah, you didn't read the FAQ then16:12
ace_suaresfor instance, on the desktop, there is no icons that lead driectly to things for kids16:12
ace_suaresokay16:12
ace_suareswhy shoud i read a faq ?16:12
mhall119you shouldn't select "Automatically log in to this account" when installing16:12
ace_suaresi put in the cd and then that's all i do right?/16:12
ace_suaresmhall119 blast16:12
ace_suaresthat featurre was so handy16:12
mhall119the account you setup when installing is for a parent16:12
ace_suaresthat shouldnt be in the faq but in the installation instructions16:12
mhall119the Qimo account is already setup, and configured to automatically log in16:13
ace_suaresand btw can't you diasble that with preseed or something??16:13
mhall119ace_suares: I'm planning on modifying Ubiquity to make that more clear in the next version16:13
ace_suareswould be nice, you almost lost me on Qimo just because of that!16:13
mhall119you're not the only one16:13
mhall119Qimo is still on v1.0, and we kind of rushed that out16:14
ace_suaresmhall119 users are badly understood16:14
mhall119I didn't even know python at that point, so modifying Ubiquity was out of scope16:14
mhall119ace_suares: I understand the problem, just didn't have the time and knowledge to do anything about it at the time16:14
ace_suaresokay okay you are forgiven ;-)16:14
ace_suaresI will  reinstall or is there a smarter way? Just disable autologin in the login manager?16:15
mhall119https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/qimo/+spec/ubiquity-modification16:16
mhall119You can probably just go to the Login Window settings and change the autologin back to Qimo16:16
ace_suaresoh i will try16:16
ace_suaresmhall119 still there?16:31
mhall119yup16:31
ace_suaresyou know what drives me crazy?16:31
mhall119the state of the Edubuntu wiki?16:32
ace_suaresl'linux' is all so good on old compiuters... qimo claims that too16:32
mhall119a claim I can back up with facts16:32
ace_suaresbut my screen is to small and the login manager windows doesnt fit in the screen and there is NO way to get to the 'OK' button. It's off screen even if i removed the two panels16:32
ace_suaresso how good is it then :-(16:32
mhall119yeah, there are several dialogs with that problem16:32
ace_suaresokay i can do CLI but ...16:33
mhall119no, there's an easier way16:33
ace_suaresmhall119 why can't one resize the dialogs ? afwul16:33
mhall119hit Alt+F716:33
ace_suaresalt-f7 ?16:33
ace_suaresand then16:33
mhall119you can move the dialog window past the screen edge16:33
ace_suaresah16:33
ace_suaresokay16:33
mhall119the Evolution and Thunderbird account dialogs are some of the worst at that16:33
ace_suaresyah i remmber that now biut still it's very bad UI design16:33
mhall119I agree, especially with netbooks becoming so wide spread, a lot of these need to be reconsidered16:34
mhall119there's probably bug reports about it already16:34
ace_suaresits not ALT+F7 , that maximize/restore16:35
ace_suaresit;s ALT+_drag mouse16:35
ace_suaresbut thx anyway!16:35
ace_suaresahhh that's much nicer!16:37
ace_suaresthat's the way kids can work with it16:37
ace_suaresa pity that when you move the mouse over the icons, there is no text explaining what the icon does16:38
ace_suaresi got a vague blue icon16:38
ace_suarestruns out to be tux4kids16:38
ace_suaresbut in generals you are on the good way16:38
ace_suaresthis is mor eof an interface for kids16:38
mhall119there should be a tooltip on mouse over16:47
mhall119the TuxType icon, the vague blue one, I don't like either16:48
ace_suaresthere wasnt a tooltip. I installed in dutch by the way16:50
ace_suareswiki is sooooooo slooooooowwwww17:00
mhall119ace_suares: you around?18:52
mhall119was reading https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSiteFeatures18:52
mhall119and for LaunchPad Auth Integration, if you're going to use Drupal it can be OpenID18:53
mhall119just a thought18:53
LaserJockhello Edubuntu land19:23
* LaserJock is trying to get through all of ace_suares's emails19:23
LaserJockace_suares: you around? we should discuss this Download page19:26
=== |Baby| is now known as Baby
LaserJockace_suares: ping19:59
ace_suareshey man19:59
LaserJockace_suares: we need to discuss this Download wiki page20:00
ace_suares please do20:00
LaserJockace_suares: I don't think it's really a good idea to have a Download page on the wiki as it's a duplication20:01
LaserJockand the wiki is not meant for end users20:01
LaserJockI think it might cause confusion20:01
ace_suaresI can relate to that. But did you red my msg to uwe ?20:01
LaserJockyes20:02
LaserJockbut we already have a Download page on edubuntu.org20:02
ace_suaresso how is it that it is not confusing now?20:02
LaserJockthat should be *the* download page20:02
ace_suaresif you read my msg you'd know thta that page is very confusing20:03
LaserJockso other pages should link to it20:03
ace_suaresdont you agree?20:03
LaserJocksure20:03
LaserJockthat's why we fix the page20:03
LaserJocknot make another page that tries to explain the confusing page :-)20:03
ace_suaresokay so we need to addres show to make THTA page more logical. But back to your 'suggestion'20:03
ace_suareshe he20:03
ace_suaresso if people are on the wiki home page20:03
ace_suaresand then click download20:03
LaserJockI've been working off-and-on with the Ubuntu webmaster to get a download page that looks like Ubuntu's20:04
ace_suaresthey get thrown in an entirely different area, page laypout and such20:04
ace_suaresdo you think that is acceptable ??20:04
LaserJockyes20:04
ace_suaresokay20:04
ace_suareswhy ?20:04
LaserJockif they land on wiki.edubuntu.org they are in the wrong place20:04
LaserJockthey should get linked to www.edubuntu.org20:04
LaserJockit is helpful if it's visually a bit different to distinguish the two places20:05
ace_suaresdid you *try* to click on the link in the wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu ?20:05
ace_suareshow does that feel to the new user that never been on edubuntu ?20:05
LaserJockhow do you mean?20:06
ace_suaresdo you think the new user has any idea that there are two different sites? And what they entail ?20:06
LaserJockif a person lands on wiki.edubuntu.org the goal is to get them off as soon as possible20:06
LaserJockthe two sites are completely different technologies20:06
ace_suareswell okay but how to get them off? just link them to a totally different site without explanation ?20:06
LaserJockyes20:07
ace_suaresokay lets vote on that in the nex tmeeting then. Could you send a mail to the list pointing out your viewpoint?20:07
LaserJockwe don't need a vote20:07
LaserJockwe just don't need multiple download pages20:07
LaserJockwe need to make *the* download page better so it's not confusing20:08
LaserJockand get people off of wiki.edubuntu.org as soon as possible20:08
ace_suaresswell.20:09
ace_suareslet me ask you one thing20:09
ace_suareswhat do you expect of me?20:09
LaserJockyou're doing great work20:09
LaserJockyou've been going through stuff20:09
ace_suaresyeah and then you come and pick on a random item in my proposal20:09
ace_suareswhat i need is a general idea20:10
ace_suaresa guidance20:10
ace_suaresa goal20:10
mhall119I'd like to second that you're doing great work, ace_suares20:10
ace_suaresnot picking apart my proposal while I am making it20:10
LaserJockok, well20:10
ace_suaresi am working my butt of here with the risk of totally being bruned down by everone who wants something else then i propose20:10
ace_suaresi say, either explain me exactly what to do so i can help20:11
LaserJockI'm trying to offer guidance here20:11
ace_suaresor let me do my thing, commenting on it is quite okay, and then change whateve rneed to be changed when the proposal has its fdorm20:11
LaserJockone minor issue with your proposal20:11
ace_suareswhat do you think? I am not trying to offend here20:11
LaserJockI'm just trying to avoid having you waste time on stuff20:12
ace_suaresLaserJock: thx! Sincerely. But how can you or anyone avoid that when there is no clear goal where to work too?20:12
LaserJockwell20:12
LaserJockwe already had the goal of moving all the user documentation to help.ubuntu.com/community20:13
ace_suaresI am just making things up along the way so to come to a proposal that can then be altered. It's very easy to change the downlaod page20:13
LaserJockwell, it is and it isn't20:13
ace_suaresLaserJock: yeah that's true and I asked for a list, but there is no list20:13
LaserJockmodification of an existing page isn't much of a problem20:13
ace_suaresThere is lots of other stuff though20:13
LaserJockbut creating new pages can be a bit tougher20:13
ace_suaresspecs, wikiplans, the lot20:13
LaserJockyep20:13
ace_suaresI think I got the moin moin pretty much under control. Some things can't be done nicely though.20:14
LaserJockso, I'm just saying don't bother with a download page20:14
ace_suaresthat's okay LJ20:14
ace_suaresI know what you want to say with it.20:14
ace_suaresi don't agree tough, but that's a differnet thing20:14
ace_suaresbtw how does this democrazy work20:15
ace_suaresyou tell me what you think is right and then i do it ?20:15
mhall119it's not really a democracy20:15
ace_suaresI have seriously no clue20:15
LaserJockit's more meritocracy20:15
ace_suareshe he i like that20:15
LaserJockpeople who have been in the team a long time and have done the work have the most say20:15
ace_suaresmeritocrazy includes that first you need to be able to do something20:15
LaserJocksometimes there's a single leader20:15
mhall119or an ad-hocracy if you read Doctorow20:15
LaserJockwe often have votes20:16
ace_suaresbefore someone knows your merit, right ??20:16
ace_suaresad-hocrazy is even nicer :-)20:16
LaserJockwe *do* have an Edubuntu Council but that's mostly for higher level governance and decision making20:16
mhall119ace_suares: yes, you have to do something first20:16
mhall119it just doesn't necessarily have to be done in/with edubuntu20:16
ace_suaresIn the whole light of attracting people to make a contribution, how do you see this meritocracy functioning to that end?20:16
LaserJockwhen they contribute they get a say20:17
ace_suaresBut what they contribute is defined by the meritocrats?20:17
LaserJockif a person wants a piece of the decision making pie, they need to jump in and start contributing20:17
mhall119ace_suares: if you have done things in the past that makes other confident in your ability to do things right in the future, your voice has more weight20:17
LaserJockno20:17
LaserJocknot necessarily20:17
ace_suaresjust asking20:17
LaserJockoften the "meritocrats" will define things that need to be done, etc.20:18
LaserJockand offer advice and guidance20:18
ace_suaresLaserJock: but there is a lack of definition in what needs to be done or dont you agree20:18
LaserJockbut generally it's pretty loose20:18
LaserJockyes, it is lacking20:18
LaserJockI think primarily because we don't have a lot of people20:18
ace_suaresso waht do i do then?20:18
mhall119ace_suares: if a long-time Debian maintaner wanted to do something with Edubuntu,their debian work contributes to their merit20:18
LaserJockfor instance20:18
ace_suaresI wnat to contribute, but what to contribute?20:18
LaserJockyou are already starting!20:19
ace_suaresat the moment i am trying to make a proposal how the wiki can look20:19
LaserJockright20:19
ace_suaresand it includes a download page that probably will disappear in the final version20:19
ace_suaresis that okay ?20:19
mhall119ace_suares: have you past experience cleaning up wikis or making them more user-friendly?20:19
LaserJockwhy not?20:19
ace_suaresokay then. Please keep the comments coming, they are very valuable for me. The earlier you comment the less unneeded work I am going to do and the more direction the work will get.20:20
ace_suaresFor instance, lining the icons in all the different pages is intersting the least20:20
ace_suaresyou need to re upload thenm on every page20:20
LaserJockwhat's wrong with the current page?20:21
ace_suaresthe solution i found is this page https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/SiteImages20:21
ace_suaresin other pages you can link to those images (ubuntu logo and such)20:21
ace_suaresthat keeps the repeatedly used images in one place and it's easy to change them troughtout the wiki20:21
ace_suaresI dont know if that's the right soultion, becuase I don't know if there are other solutions20:22
ace_suaresso i am trying this out now20:22
ace_suaresand if comments coming in saying that it can be done better, I'll change it if it makes sense.20:22
ace_suaresalso, it would have bene very nice to be able to include a footer of some kind20:23
ace_suaresmoinmoin docs say that there is an <<INCLUDE>> directive but that doesn't work on this wiki20:23
ace_suaresmaybe it's turned off20:23
LaserJockit works20:23
LaserJockwe can do headers and footers20:23
ace_suaresthat's too bad because repeating stuff at the bottom could be easily maintained very simpel in one place20:23
ace_suaresi think i can not do headers and footers from my account20:23
ace_suaresand besides the include is more interesting20:24
LaserJockit's probably just a syntax thing20:24
ace_suaresyou can make a 'team' page and then include that page as PART of another page.20:24
ace_suaresIf you look at the wiki now there's couple of pages that specify all teams20:24
ace_suaresif that part was included from one file than updates to the team would be in one palce and propagate trough the wiki20:25
ace_suaresnow there is some merit for you ;-)20:25
ace_suaresIf you can find out LaserJock how to do includes, it would help me very much.20:25
LaserJockace_suares: so I'm wondering specifically what you don't like about the current page?20:25
ace_suareshttp://moinmo.in/HelpOnMacros/Include20:25
LaserJockyou do <<Include(Page)>>20:26
ace_suaresI dont know shoudl I discuss that now? or via the mailing list? It seems like a waste sometimes to just discuss it in irc and tomorrow someelse will say another thing.20:26
ace_suaresLaserJock: I think I tried it. Maybe you try it and show me what I did wrong.20:26
LaserJockace_suares: here's an example use: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Header20:27
ace_suaresthx!20:27
ace_suaresso maybe it has to do with the path20:28
ace_suaresI will try.20:28
LaserJockace_suares: are you mostly concerned about changing the layout?20:28
ace_suaresI made this https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WikiSite/BigFooter20:28
ace_suareswnat to include that on some pages20:28
ace_suaresno i am not concerned on the layout if you read the message to uwe carefully you'll see my thoiughts about it20:28
ace_suaresit's structure, maintainability, and logical flow trough the site20:29
ace_suareslayout is something afterwards20:29
ace_suaresCOOL ! it works!20:30
LaserJockI guess I'm confused as to what is wrong with the current page20:30
LaserJockother than it needing to be updated and maybe compacted a bit20:30
ace_suaresis it okay if i explain that later?20:30
ace_suarestakes a couple of words and I'd rather do it in plain view20:31
LaserJockI guess so20:31
LaserJockI would just say that it's important to keep in mind that it's not primarily targeted to end-users20:31
ace_suaresalso, i am adding pages but I am not removing or moving pages. Shold have to much influence on th ecurrent site.20:31
ace_suaresShouldn't20:31
LaserJockthe target would be for potential and current contributors20:31
LaserJocksure, no problem20:32
ace_suaresas a potential contributor, I got lost in the site almost immediatley20:32
LaserJockon that page specifically?20:32
LaserJockI agree that the site as a whole is a mess20:32
ace_suaresWhat is the difference between Community and Develop ?20:32
ace_suaresas long as we agree on that we are good ;-)20:32
LaserJockCommunity is ... people, communication, etc.20:33
ace_suaresWhy is wiki.edubuntu.org not at all prominently edubuntu?20:33
LaserJockhow do you mean?20:33
LaserJockace_suares: hmm, you need to watch the path on some of your pages20:35
LaserJockace_suares: they should all start with Edubuntu/ to keep the namespace clean20:35
ace_suaresyeah that was an error i made on the beginning. I am on top of that now. No worries :-)20:35
ace_suaresI just moved WikiSite/BigFooter to Edubuntu/WikiSite/BigFooter20:36
LaserJockk20:36
ace_suaresI'd like you to follow closely but come up with suggestions... not 'commands'.,.. please?20:37
LaserJockso I think the idea with Community and Develop was that Community was to gather community info and governance. The "people stuff"20:39
LaserJockand Develop was more the technical things like todo lists, roadmaps, etc.20:39
LaserJockmore the mechanics20:39
ace_suaresI think they are partly overlapping. It shows in the pages. Teams is on many places. I gotta analyse it a bit more.20:40
LaserJockyeah, there probably is some overlap20:40
LaserJockI like how you used "Grow Edubuntu"20:40
LaserJockactually20:41
LaserJockI'm not sure that Community belongs on the wiki page other than to point to edubuntu.org/Community20:41
LaserJockso "Community", "Get Edubuntu", and "Need Support?" should be just links to edubuntu.org20:42
LaserJockand then Grow Edubuntu is the main trust of the wiki20:42
ace_suaresthank you LaserJock about the 'Grow Edubuntu' thing. I think if you read my proposal page instead of the current page, you'll find it much more alluring...20:42
ace_suaresLaserJock: so "Community", "Get Edubuntu", and "Need Support?" should be just links to edubuntu.org20:43
ace_suares -- I can agree with that20:43
ace_suaresMy toughts mor eor less20:43
ace_suaresexcept that edubuntu.org is a mess too20:43
LaserJockyes20:43
LaserJockone thing at a time :-020:43
LaserJock:-) rather20:43
ace_suaresgotaa clean up the wiki and define clearly waht those icons meen20:43
ace_suaresthen fix the website too20:43
LaserJockace_suares: what do you think of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam as a team landing page?20:44
ace_suaresi like the header I will study that header too20:45
ace_suaresI will tell you what i think about that page as I am progressing trough the site20:45
ace_suaresit has many drawbacks mainly there is no overview20:45
ace_suaresa table of contents would imporove it already greatly20:45
ace_suaresyou need an overview what you cna expext on the page else you wont scroll down20:46
ace_suaresdamn how you escapce {{attachment:file.png}} so that it shows the literal text?20:47
LaserJock{{{ }}} maybe20:50
ace_suaressp {{{{{ }}}}} or just {{{ }}}20:50
LaserJockjust20:50
ace_suaresno all five :-)20:51
ace_suaresthx20:51
LaserJockoh, you wanted the {{ too20:51
ace_suaresyeha becau you would paste that into the page20:52
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
LaserJockright20:52
ace_suareslook: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/SiteImages20:53
ace_suaresif youpaste them in yuour page they will show the correct image AND a alt-text (for accessabiity_20:53
ace_suaresand if you ever want to chage the edubuntu logo troughout the site, it's done in ONE edit :-)))20:54
ace_suaresnow is that good or bad ...20:54
ace_suaresgotta go to a party now20:55
ace_suaresthx LaserJock for being involved!20:55
ace_suaresmhall119 too20:56
mhall119what?  I wasn't paying attention\20:56
ace_suaresmhall119 just thanking you that's all20:56
mhall119oh, I didn't do anything20:56
ace_suaresLaserJock: will you send a mail to the list sufggesting that the three buttons go to the one site and the grow edubuntu goes to the wiki ? would help tremendously21:01
ace_suaresgotta go now bye21:01
=== vorian is now known as OldSchool

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