[00:00] handy hint: edit /etc/pulse/default.pa to set tsched=1 === zorael_ is now known as Zorael^nb [00:03] erm. I've just noticed that Karmic doesn't seem to come with the ipv6 module compiled by default [00:04] oh, wait, compiled-in [00:05] * BUGabundo $echo moo; reply: foobed [00:10] hey guys -- anyone know of a bug where a second logged in user can no longer access the sound hardware? [00:10] gnome volume control shows the device as "null output" === Richard is now known as Guest13494 [00:23] I know that Karmic is still pre-release, but is it useable? I need the updated drivers of 9.10. === Guest13494 is now known as richardcavell [00:24] Guest13494: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha3 see "Known Issues" [00:25] Oh wow [00:25] *sigh* poeple these days just can't wait... [00:25] We've moved to alpha 3... I forgot all about it [00:25] syn-ack: I guess you weren't here yesterday? :P [00:26] yoasif, sadly, no. I've had a lot of stuff going on [00:26] havent even updated yet [00:37] * cwillu pokes yofel with a richardcavell [00:38] richardcavell, if you just need graphics drivers or a newer kernel, you can do that without upgrading to karmic [00:38] cwillu: mate, I tried to do that and i broke my Jaunty installation entirely [00:38] richardcavell, see the mainline kernel ppa for newer kernel packages that will mostly just work (but which are unsupported, but I'm guessing you're tired of hearing that :p) [00:38] richardcavell, can you be more specific? [00:38] by "ways of doing that" I expressly did not mean installing karmic packages :p === blueyed_ is now known as blueyed [00:39] cwillu: I had an installation of Jaunty - I only included stable release software, not pre-release. I then installed everything from the xorg-edgers PPA and then my X wouldn't load at all [00:39] richardcavell, hahaha bad idea [00:40] well what was I supposed to have done? I wanted to get the latest versions of everything. [00:40] cwillu: you called? [00:40] richardcavell, thats what backports are for [00:40] richardcavell, you obviously didn't though, because the latest version of everything are known to cause breakage, they're where we're doing testing to see what the problems are [00:40] richardcavell, anyways, what was the original problem precisely? [00:40] cwillu: well, look I need a solution [00:41] cwillu: I'm running Intel GMA 950. Performance under Jaunty is dreadful, and I get errors. I can't run games under wine. [00:41] I can't run half-life 1 [00:41] richardcavell, no, you need to reason through the things you do so you don't make things worse [00:41] okay [00:41] Now, Jaunty intel drivers are 2.6.3 [00:41] Latest version is 2.8.0 [00:41] gma950 is a 945'ish driver I think? [00:41] yes [00:41] cwillu, well.... I dont exactly install my beta boxes from the installer either... [00:41] karmic is handling my gma950 amazingly well [00:41] mine too [00:42] so anyway I tried to restore my Ubuntu partition from my backup and it has completely fscked itself now [00:42] richardcavell, under jaunties xorg, you might have been able to simply run uxa. lots of people didn't have troubles with it, it was disabled by default because a subset of people did (about 30% or so I'd figure) [00:42] so I'm going to have to reinstall all over again [00:42] yoasif: are you just running a default installation? [00:42] richardcavell, yep [00:42] See, lots of people with GMA950 have said that the newer drivers are working really well [00:43] so if that's the case then I'm keen to get in on it [00:43] richardcavell: yes, but you need a newer kernel for those drivers as well [00:43] richardcavell, you're talking to a guy who did a tonne of triage during the jaunty release cycle of intel issues [00:43] you _might_ want to consider what I'm saying :p [00:43] yofel: I installed kernel 2.6.30 as well [00:43] kernel 2.6.30 was no problem [00:44] cwillu: what's your recommendation? [00:44] richardcavell, under jaunties xorg, you might have been able to simply run uxa. lots of people didn't have troubles with it, it was disabled by default because a subset of people did (about 30% or so I'd figure) [00:44] I'm on a Macbook 2nd generation. Intel Core 2 Duo, Intel GMA 950 chipset. [00:45] cwillu: how does one enable uxa? [00:45] Option "AccelMethod" "uxa" [00:46] in the device section [00:46] of xorg.conf? [00:46] yes [00:46] and then restart X [00:46] yofel: do you have an opinion on cwillu's idea? [00:46] presuming you're on a clean install, or at least with the bleeding edge packages removed [00:47] yofel's opinion is that it's worth a shot ;p [00:47] * cwillu huggles yofel with a stick held menacingly close :) [00:47] cwillu: I have to reinstall the partition all over again, though. It will take me hours. [00:48] richardcavell, what was your backup? [00:48] cwillu: and then if I want to test it I need to install wine and half-life etc [00:48] i.e., how did you perform it, and how did you perform the restore? [00:48] cwillu: I rsynced everything to an external hard drive. I tried to rsync it back and I get a kernel panic [00:48] rsync as root? [00:48] yeah [00:48] * yofel askes himself if he really wants to answer... [00:48] (needs to be as root originally and on restore) [00:48] richardcavell, with the original kernel? [00:48] cwillu: yes [00:48] I mean, did you do rsync --vax --delete or just rsync -vax?" [00:49] cwillu: I use gksudo grsync [00:49] * cwillu sighs, downloads grsync and looks at what the defaults are [00:49] I copied everything to an external hard disk, then installed all the xorg-edgers packages and kernel 2.6.30. [00:49] * cwillu notes that normally he normally charges 80 an hour to deal with this sort of mess :p [00:49] Then my X wouldn't boot [00:50] cwillu: I changed from the default options anyway [00:50] richardcavell, well which options then? :p [00:50] cwillu: I thought I chose everything properly [00:50] cwillu: my idea was to create a perfect clone on the external hard disk [00:50] and then clone it back [00:50] if you didn't do 'stay on one filesystem' and 'ignore errors', you probably didn't get a valid backup [00:51] I selected stay on the one filesystem [00:51] re: perfect cloning, I usually just dd the partition directly [00:51] cwillu: I'm going to use clonezilla in future [00:51] did the permissions look sane afterwards? [00:51] cwillu: yeah they did [00:51] I can cd into the external hard drive and look around [00:51] richardcavell, I'm not a big fan of gui's for my backups, much prefer knowing exactly whats going on so that I can do thing by hand when necessary [00:52] cwillu: well I'm using a disk imager from now on [00:52] do you remember what the kernel panic was? [00:52] cwillu: it doesn't stay on screen for long but it's about 4 seconds into boot and it says something about sync [00:52] grsync """It currently supports only a limited set of the most important rsync""" [00:52] sounds scarey [00:52] * cwillu clicks install [00:53] (scary being the quote, not the panic) [00:53] anyway, I don't have anything important on my linux partition [00:53] I have backups of all my essential files [00:53] so if I have to reinstall the darn thing then I can do that [00:53] really, an rsync of home is enough to get 90% of everything back [00:53] and while I'm at it I might as well fix my GMA950 drivers [00:54] i.e., backup home, install, rsync home back [00:54] I keep elaborate backups of everything because I've been using computers for long enough to know how to do that [00:54] so that's not a problem [00:54] I'll have to reinstall some Linux distro and then reinstall all my favourite software, set up my firefox bookmarks etc [00:54] I guess my options are: Jaunty with UXA enabled, Karmic, Debian sid. [00:55] richardcavell, doesn't look like it has the --ignore-errors option, which is critical for an rsync backup [00:55] why is that critical? [00:55] .gvfs folders aren't root readable, so you're guaranteed one error [00:55] fuse mounts in general are like that [00:55] so the rsync probably aborted at that point [00:55] No, it doesn't abort [00:55] there is one thing that won't rsync across but it doesn't seem to be a big deal [00:56] it does skip a lot of files, saying "skipping non-regular file " [00:56] which implies that it didn't --one-file-system (that would have been the /dev foldeR) [00:56] which also could screw things up [00:56] it skips a lot of the /dev folder contents [00:56] it shouldn't ever get to the /dev folder though [00:57] anyway, like I said, I'm using a disk imager from now on [00:57] that'd be the 'do not leave filsystem' option [00:57] * cwillu shrugs [00:57] but while I reinstall I might as well select a distribution that fixes my Intel video [00:58] alright I think I'm going to download Karmic and boot to the liveCD, and see how it works on my system [00:58] good luck with that [00:59] and then with any luck I'll install. At least with karmic I get ext4, GRUB2 [00:59] and a few other nice things [00:59] ext4 and grub2 are in jaunty too [00:59] just not enabled by default [00:59] not by default [00:59] karmic isn't available by default :p [00:59] yofel: you still there? Have you tried playing games under wine on Karmic? [01:00] cwillu: I get horrible OpenGL and even software rendering errors. [01:00] richardcavell: no, I use a windows machine for gaming [01:01] yofel: I just got my tax return and I'm thinking of doing the same [01:01] buy a cheap system with popular, generic parts [01:01] so driver support won't be a problem [01:03] alright boys I need to go to my University to get enough bandwidth to download Karmic, so I'll talk to you later. Hopefully from Karmic. [01:04] grub2 is default now, no? [01:04] richardcavell, at the very least, subscribe to the ubuntu-devel-announce mailing list so you'll stand a chance if the usual completely-breaking-your-system screwups happen [01:04] err... *why* does he want to try karmic now anyway??? [01:04] ugh [01:04] did I miss him? (my enter/exit messages are turned off) [01:04] missed him [01:04] cwillu: yes, you missed him by ~30s [01:05] heh [01:05] yofel, he thinks intel is fixed there. Granted, it's working better for many many people (although suspend is completely broken for me because of the same intel changes), but ya [01:06] he's active on ubuntuforums, enough said :p [01:07] i got lucky -- never tried jaunty on this machine, so i dont know if intel didnt work for it [01:07] but karmic is working fine [01:08] well, intel works much better on my eeePC with karmic, but it's still not in a state that I would use for gaming... [01:08] yes, but I'm sure you know (a) where option "accelmethod" "uxa" goes, (b) that xorg.conf never takes effect before restarting x somehow, (c) how rsync'ing works, (d) how to find the answers to any of the above using google if you're unsure :) [01:08] (e) not to blame the unhired help in #ubuntu* if things don't work :) [01:09] incidently, grsync doesn't include the ignore errors option, so he definitely had a faulty backup [01:10] * yofel never heard of grsync before [01:10] !info grsync [01:10] grsync (source: grsync): GTK+ frontend for rsync. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.3-1ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 76 kB, installed size 424 kB [01:10] then again, I'm more of a cli guy anyway [01:10] it's the classic frontend to a cli utility that doesn't add anything [01:10] not that those don't have their place, but they're only really useful for a narrow band of users [01:11] well, not that I would use software with a 0. version for backup of important data... [01:11] yep, ran a simulation, and it fails and kicks out on .gvfs :) [01:12] that's also something that I love, when people answer questions they don't know the answer to with an answer that doesn't include "I don't know" [01:13] * cwillu wonders how much ext4 likes being imaged while mounted === DanaG1 is now known as DanaG [01:30] and I was in such a good mood today :) [01:31] hey all, the ubuntu minimal install that removes klogd and sysklogd and install rsyslog... is that ok? [01:32] bcurtiswx: yes, that's ok [01:32] yofel: ty === zehrique is now known as zehrique-off === zorael_ is now known as Zorael^nb [03:48] Anyone know what would make 2.6.31 fail to recognize my initramfs images? [03:52] It reports "junk in compressed archive" [03:56] ok got the -4 kernel update why doesnt it show in my grub menu? [04:02] sudo update-grub [04:05] gracious...now it sees it..ugh... [04:06] now to reboot and see if i can get to it. [04:10] still wondering why 31-4 is being held back for me [04:11] the new kernel must not like canadians or something, must be the last guy testing +1 to get the new kernel :) [04:35] im guessing you all know sound is broken after todays updates? [04:35] Hmm, why does grub2 not have the vbe module? [04:35] No suitable backend found for gfxterm. [04:36] Um sound isnt broken here [04:36] i have no sound, www.slacker.com for example i can't hear any radio [04:36] my sound isn't muted [04:36] ive killed it [04:37] no effect [04:38] bcurtiswx, ok.... So have you checked to see if you have modules loaded, etc? [04:38] What type of troubleshooting have you done? [04:39] syn-ack: how would I check... (sorry the newb in me is coming out) [04:39] And.... youre using an Alpha? [04:39] bcurtiswx, log out, and log in [04:39] im pumping out some pantera right now [04:39] YARGH. [04:39] :P [04:40] nevermind [04:40] haha [04:40] i find that i don't get sound after booting [04:40] but logging out and back in seems to fix it? [04:40] that may be a PULSE issue [04:41] wouldn't doubt it [04:41] bbiab [04:41] back [04:41] bcurtiswx, .....????? [04:41] no effecct [04:41] no sounds [04:42] did you have sound? [04:42] nope [04:43] how do i check if modules are loaded? [04:43] never had sound to begin with? [04:43] lsmod [04:43] i did before todays updates [04:43] oh [04:43] kde gnome? [04:43] gnome [04:44] i can't see anything in the changes for anything related to audio [04:44] snd 59076 18 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_seq_oss,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq,snd_timer,snd_seq_device [04:48] anything else i can check to see what may be the problem? [04:55] * DanaG is mucking around with EFI again. [04:58] yargh, grub refuses to use gfxterm -- "no suitable backend" [05:00] Oh, and it tries to chainload the non-EFI loader from grub-efi... silly, that can't work. [05:08] hi there, I'm having a strange behaviour with rhythmbox, each time a tracks starts, the sound gets muted [05:09] the icon at sound control displays as muted [05:09] right clic and the mark isn't checked [05:09] can anyone confirm this ? [05:30] Well, that went badly. [05:30] "unknown command: search" [05:30] unknown command: linux [05:31] unknown command: initrd [05:31] =þ [05:32] So yeah, it broke badly. [05:33] Still no initramfs! [05:36] argh, what the heck? [05:36] Something keeps disabling my two-finger-scrolling. [05:36] Repeatedly! [05:38] Oh, damn gnome-settings-daemon! [05:40] DAMNIT, it did it again! [05:44] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/404219 [05:44] Ubuntu bug 404219 in gnome-settings-daemon "Touchpad Tap Clicking Broken (scrolling also)" [Low,In progress] [05:47] so yeah, that rather irks me. [05:55] * DanaG goes off muttering about "grubby little hands" [06:03] wow, I managed to make gnome-settings-daemon FIGHT itself over the vertical scrolling! [06:03] I opened gpointing-device-properties and enabled both types of scrolling there. [06:04] So now, the touchplad plugin wants ONLY two-finger... but the gpointing-device plugin wants both -- and thus they play tug-of-war resetting the settings repeatedly. [06:05] I guess that's a separate bug. [06:08] so yeah, I am now rather irritated at that misfeature. [06:08] Or rather, it's a good feature... but it's badly implemented. [06:12] oh, and nm-applet icon doesn't scale. [06:12] ... nor does gnome-do. [06:15] [06:15] =þ [06:23] ok updated grub and still no -4 kernel...so what now wait till i really fubar it..lol... [06:24] just figure its something ive done or havent done...went about the updates like normal but it hasnt been put into grub menu...even tho when i did update-grub it showed it.??? [06:32] oldude67, did it get held back? [06:32] ie apt-get update [06:32] see if it was held back [06:33] ill look but dont think so cause it said it was upgrading to it..but ill look again [06:34] On a somewhat unrelated topic, anyone know if Red Hat Directory Server runs well under Ubuntu? [06:35] syn-ack, no no updates being held back...besides when i update-grub it showed it..just not on the boot menu for grub [06:35] aah, I managed to pry Gnome's grubby little hands off my touchpad settings. [06:35] No, wait, it BROKE them again! [06:35] Damnit! [06:35] kick it..lol [06:36] hrm [06:36] oldude67, See, I updated just fine on this system [06:37] pastebin your /boot/grub/menu.lst please [06:37] ya i have a feeling this one is going to get a fresh install shortly...its starting to get me mad [06:37] lol [06:37] sure not a problem [06:37] It's also changing the EDGE boundary size! [06:39] http://pastebin.com/m475640db [06:39] thats just the top of it... [06:41] http://pastebin.com/m56ed593d [06:41] and thats after update-grub [06:44] wow [06:45] Perhaps purge all but the latest of each major version? [06:45] thats what I was thinking [06:45] Like, keep one 28, one 30, and one 31. [06:45] thats kind of what i was thinking [06:46] honestly, I would keep only one "old" kernel [06:46] theres no real need to have all those in there... [06:46] what would be the best way to do that with out borking my system [06:46] apt-get remove the old kernels [06:46] only one i need to keep right now it -2 [06:47] whichever you feel the most comfortable in keeping [06:47] 2.6.31-3 makes my video go nuts.... [06:47] oh yeah, if I boot with grub2, the kernel fails to see my initramfs. [06:47] oh yeah, and that "one-or-the-other" scrolling thing -- totally undocumented -- really screwed me up today -- I kept scrolling... and the damn thing refused to scroll anywhere except in a 3mm wide strip on the right side of the touchpad. [06:52] I wont touch GRUB2 till a buttload more testing and fixing is done [06:52] Still way too unstable for my comfort [06:55] wow this might take a while...ugh..lol [06:55] oh yeah, and when I try to efi-boot, for some reason, the kernel won't see my initramfs. [06:58] ok reboot and see if that helps i only have 4 left [07:00] anubody gets wireless n speeds on MBP 5.1 ? [07:03] well that may of gotten rid of some of it, but it still has a list full when i boot...do i have to edit the menu.lst too? [07:03] yes [07:04] oldude67, try just running grub-update [07:04] ugh figures lol then update-grub again..lol.... [07:04] i did [07:04] No [07:04] hrm [07:04] theres something going on with the GRUB you have installed [07:04] figures [07:05] probably have the broken version..lmao [07:05] its not like lilo, where you have to recompile it after every edit, it should do all the configuration dynamically [07:05] morning [07:05] hello [07:05] ya im use to lilo more then grub thats for sure. [07:06] nice! [07:06] 2.27.5 Feature Freeze! [07:07] they better have the friking GDM configurator done [07:07] well menu.lst still shows all the old kernels...??? [07:07] I just made it so I can start an xterm under the login screen. [07:07] =þ [07:07] http://news.gnome.org/ [07:09] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/404219 [07:09] Ubuntu bug 404219 in gnome-settings-daemon "Touchpad Tap Clicking Broken (scrolling also)" [Low,In progress] [07:11] ok be back in a sec...lets see if i fubarred it good this time..lmao [07:14] billybigrigger: i found the problem... apparently my alsamixer, turned off PCM, and had my internal speakers muted... (dell mini 9) [07:15] well, at least thats how i fixed it [07:15] if the upgrades did that or not idk [07:16] its a known issue [07:17] jeruvy: good to know, do you have a bug link, i can probably comment on a workaround if there isn't one posted already [07:25] ah there are so many I wouldn't know where to start :) [08:12] Anyone know why ekiga is being held back? [08:19] syn-ack: Because it has new libraries it wants to install? [08:20] I didnt see anything else though, is all... [08:20] just wondering [08:23] Try: sudo apt-get install ekiga [08:25] I should have just checked the deps file. you're right it really was a stupid question [08:26] No. Only the unasked questions are stupid. [08:26] ok, I really should have known better. :P [09:21] Hi all, just a quick poll: do you like the new document recovery feature of evince? [09:27] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_intel_shape&num=3 I read this and wondered if there has been some progress on this.. (intel performance) [09:30] floating: but the bad performance is not visible by eye anymore, is it? [09:32] umm, i have no idea. I haven't installed 9.10 , and was just wondering if i want to try it. ..It sounds like there has been some progress/change :) [09:33] well, not like it would take long to try it out, but I thought to survey on irc first [09:36] floating: it works nicely in karmic [09:36] what card do you have exactly? I don't even have an xorg.conf anymore and I have a tablet [09:37] My card has pci id 8086:27a2 [09:37] why empathy over pidgin? [09:38] laeg: some say because of the mono conspiracy, but now microsoft granted patents [09:38] so laeg I have honestly no idea [09:39] hello [09:39] Le-Chuck_ITA: mono conspiracy, can you elaborate? [09:39] empathy can do irc? [09:40] zniavre: at this moment, no [09:40] I asked about IRC support yesterday :) [09:41] a nice i was struggling to find it nice to hear it can 't at this moment [09:42] yeah, when I launched Empathy for the first time, I was puzzled, how can I use IRC there :) [09:42] I still fail to understand why people would want to use an IM client for IRC [09:42] :o) [09:42] intel(R) 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller [09:43] os[Linux 2.6.31-4-generic i686] distro[Ubuntu "karmic" 9.10] cpu[2 x Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T3200 @ 2.00GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1000MHz] mem[Physical: 1.9GB, 82.5% free] disk[Total: 146.6GB, 88.6% free] video[Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller] sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel] [09:43] ;) [09:43] oh [09:44] have to try the alpha 3 then :> [09:45] laeg: no I can't ! it has already triggered too much discussion and proved false since microsoft granted all the relevant patents :) [09:46] zniavre: empathy can do everything, by design, except that it isn't implemented :) [09:46] ok [09:46] syn-ack: because it works well also as an IRC client? I mean pidgin [09:46] Thats just it; it doesnt, imo [09:47] syn-ack: depends on what you do on irc, for chatting, transferring files, autojoin, authentication pidgin is very good [09:47] and it is comfortable because I can add irc people to my buddies [09:47] Whatever floats your boat [09:48] I use irssi for irc, google talk and msn messenger :) [09:48] I use irssi normally skype and gaim [09:49] rather, pidgin [09:49] I run gui clients for msn/icq, but run jabber and irc thru irssi/bitlbee [09:53] Le-Chuck_ITA: okay but surely someone must know why pidgin was shown the door? [09:54] laeg: they *said* it is still in testing and they will decide by . I do not see any progress on the huge lack of features of empathy. I was enthusiastic of the voice call capabilities, except that they don't work. [09:54] The reasons are e.g. voice call support :) [09:56] hmm [09:56] laeg: but karmic is said to be a technology preview of the next LTS so they are free to add technology preview quality software to it [09:56] but does empathy support webcam? [09:56] and then *nobody* will be able to revert the change [09:57] i had heard on a ubuntu podcast that pidgin has already been dropped... [09:57] but in the end empathy is perhaps the only serious glitch [09:57] they want to introduce that telepathy framework w/ that empathy or ? http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Rationale [09:58] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/MessagingAndCommunicationSelection === yofel_ is now known as yofel [09:58] there is a "get feedback step" [09:58] let us hope [10:10] is there someone using an intel video card and karmic here [10:10] ? [10:10] I would like to know if you have screen flashing problems with kernel 2.6.31 [10:13] Le-Chuck_ITA: me (eeePC - 945GME), specific application? I get some flashing when loading kde, but other than that it's fine [10:13] yofel: specific application=xorg :) [10:13] my laptop is unusable if I boot with kernel 2.6.31 [10:14] Le-Chuck_ITA: tried turning KMS off? [10:14] but it's clearly not the driver, must be some dri code [10:14] yofel: I think it's already off [10:14] do you recall how can I check? [10:14] Le-Chuck_ITA: it's on by defautl unless you set i915.modeset=0 on the kernel boot line (grub) [10:15] yofel: I recall I did that in a different way for a different bug [10:15] yofel: but my console switching is terribly quick [10:15] so the change must have been undone by some upgrade [10:16] for grub2 I have to change the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT variable in /etc/default/grub right? [10:16] yes [10:16] then do I need to use update-grub? [10:16] yes, to port that to grub.conf [10:17] *grub.cfg [10:17] where is grub.cfg btw still in /boot? [10:17] /boot/grub/ [10:17] thanks, will now reboot and see [10:25] * Le-Chuck_ITA gives yofel the title of smart guy for today [10:25] works? [10:26] Yes but for unrelated bugs I can't use that kernel yet :) [10:26] is there a tag for bugs related to kms? [10:27] Le-Chuck_ITA: best ask in #ubuntu-x for that [10:27]