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pleia2ok folks, time for the Ubuntu Community Learning Team meeting :)23:01
bodhi_zazenwho is here ?23:02
pleia2the Agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda23:02
bodhi_zazenare you willing to chair pleia2 ?23:02
* DougieRichardson waves23:02
pleia2sure, but I don't know how to use MootBot :)23:02
MootBotMeeting started at 17:03. The chair is popey.23:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]23:03
bodhi_zazenWant to learn fast ?23:03
MootBotMeeting finished at 17:03.23:03
popeylike that23:03
MootBotMeeting started at 17:03. The chair is pleia2.23:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]23:03
pleia2ok, I will try ;)23:03
pleia2doctormo said he'd be here, so hopefully he'll turn up23:04
bodhi_zazenpleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot23:04
pleia2cprofitt is still on vacation I think23:04
pleia2Vantrax might just not be awake yet23:04
pleia2but I think we can get started with discussion anyway23:04
pleia2[TOPIC] Team Structure23:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Team Structure23:04
bodhi_zazen\o/ pleia223:05
pleia2[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure23:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure23:05
pleia2ok, so this is the awesome document that bodhi_zazen took the time to write up23:05
bodhi_zazenI put up some general ideas and would like some feedback / suggestions23:05
bodhi_zazenpreferably on wiki so people who are not at this meeting can be involved23:06
popeyshall we break it down point by point?23:06
pleia2popey: yeah, I think so23:06
bodhi_zazenany way you all like =)23:06
pleia2so lets do this with topic23:06
pleia2initial considerations23:06
pleia2I agree that we should track membership with launchpad23:07
popeythat makes total sense23:07
pleia2the page also suggests yearly renewals23:07
pleia2I know the ubuntumembers team allows self renewals, is that an option in LP?23:07
popeymost other teams are two-years23:07
popeyit is, yes pleia223:08
bodhi_zazenyes pleia223:08
pleia2I think once someone is accepted we should allow them to renew themselves, instead of going through a process23:08
bodhi_zazen2 years is a long time for a young team =)23:08
bodhi_zazenthat is how it works pleia223:08
pleia2yeah, so maybe we start with 1 and revisit it later23:08
popeyI'm happy either way. I see no reason not to use 1 year23:09
bodhi_zazenAnd if somebody goes mia, and their membership expires, that is a reason to send out an email or memo23:09
popeyi think you'd know they were AWOL before their membership expired23:09
bodhi_zazenIs it OK if I edit these comments into the wiki page as we talk ?23:09
pleia2bodhi_zazen: oh, I just made an edit :) but sure - go for it23:09
pleia2[TOPIC] Team Structure: General Membership23:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Team Structure: General Membership23:10
popeybodhi_zazen: might be easier at the end?23:10
bodhi_zazenpopey: I can edit as we go =)23:10
pleia2so this is the next part of the wiki page23:10
bodhi_zazenthen it will be done23:10
bodhi_zazenone advantage of not chairing23:11
pleia2I'm always torn whether to have an Open or Moderated team for the general membership :)23:11
popeyI agree that either open or moderated, not restricted23:11
pleia2maybe do Moderated, with very basic requirements for membership? I don't want people to feel like they need to jump through hoops to get involved23:12
pleia2hello DougieRichardson's cat!23:12
* DougieRichardson got a new kitten - its nosey23:13
bodhi_zazenwhat are the minimal requirements pleia2 ?23:13
bodhi_zazendo we want a signed CoC on LP for example ?23:13
pleia2bodhi_zazen: I liked your meet&greet, sign CoC23:13
bodhi_zazenanything more then a meet & greet ?23:13
pleia2maybe we can put forward requirements for the "meet & greet" though, like having people introduce themselves and give us an idea of their skills and goals23:14
bodhi_zazenWho and how will membership be determined beyond that ?23:14
pleia2I've found that knowing the skills that people have goes a long way to making a team work - even if they wander off, I still have their skill list and can email them and say "hey, something came up and we need you!"23:14
pleia2I think we pretty much accept anyone who does that step23:15
bodhi_zazenIntroduce yourself to the team and give us an idea of your interests, skills, and how you see yourself working with the team.23:16
bodhi_zazenHow is that for now ?23:16
popeyi do have one concern though23:16
pleia2popey: sure23:16
popeythere was one team that used to vet their members and it ended up with people not being let in because one person didn't like the look of them23:16
bodhi_zazenI would suggest a signed CoC, as we will be holding members to those rules =)23:16
popeyI worry that this can happen with moderated teams23:16
popeyi would just like to be sure that we are a welcoming team primarily23:17
bodhi_zazen+1 popey , but really that is unlikely here as I do not think any of the leaders wants that to happen23:17
DougieRichardsonConversely open teams are susceptible to spam accounts23:17
popeyof course DougieRichardson23:17
bodhi_zazenspam and "bad behavior"23:17
popeyand idlers :)23:17
popeyI am a member of some teams I have not done anything in/for23:18
DougieRichardsonand bragging right collectors23:18
popeyI'm sure a lot of others are too23:18
pleia2so I think we want to never "reject" people, they sit in the moderation queue until they follow the meet-n-greet directions that will be clearly spelled out on the LP page23:18
popeyok, so long as we dont keep people waiting23:18
pleia2for now, I think the 5 team board members will be admins, we're all pretty active23:18
bodhi_zazenShould we vote on moderated vs open ?23:19
popeyi agree moderated is the way to go23:19
pleia2bodhi_zazen: I think we want to wait on votes until next meeting23:19
popeyjust so long as we are vigilant not to lose potentially keen people or become to harsh not to let people in23:20
pleia2this meeting we should just iron out what we want to do, give others opportunity to weigh in (since 3/5 of board are missing)23:20
pleia2popey: agreed23:20
pleia2ok, so we also need to decide *how* this meet-n-greet takes place23:20
DougieRichardsonwith five admins that shouldn't be an issue - you're going to notice if someone keeps rejecting members.23:20
pleia2I don't want to ask people to mail the mailing list, that's a bit intimidating, archived in mailman forever :)23:20
pleia2some people are a bit irc-shy23:21
pleia2so maybe do something like: introduce yourself on list, in IRC, or to the board members whose email addresses are...23:21
bodhi_zazenno pleia2 I think keep it as general as possible =)23:21
DougieRichardsonI'd say mailing list intro23:22
bodhi_zazenI like IRC, give a chance to really interact =)23:22
pleia2introducing myself on a mailing list is scary :)23:22
popeyI'd say offer them choices23:22
popeyirc happy people can do so via irc23:22
DougieRichardsonit works fine on most teams, it would also assist in avoiding popey's scenario because team members can see the intro and whether they were accepted23:22
bodhi_zazenI am OK with mailing list or other means, we could start a forums thread for example =)23:22
popeymailing list people can do so via mail23:22
DougieRichardsonml that is23:23
pleia2bodhi_zazen: we don't have a forum!23:23
pleia2do we? hehe23:23
bodhi_zazenI am fairly sure we could make at least a sticky on the Ubuntu forums =)23:23
pleia2ah, value of a forum is something to consider23:24
bodhi_zazenIf you would like a specific sub section I can put in a request, although to be honest such things tend not to be used much23:24
* pleia2 makes note of DougieRichardson's comments23:25
pleia2good point, something to consider23:25
pleia2[TOPIC] Team Structure: Roles23:25
MootBotNew Topic:  Team Structure: Roles23:25
bodhi_zazenwait please =)23:26
pleia2oh sorry :)23:26
bodhi_zazenwhat about signed CoC ?23:26
pleia2yeah, we should require that23:26
pleia2and be ready to help anyone with gpg who wants to sign it23:27
bodhi_zazencan add a link to the final wiki page23:28
bodhi_zazenand help on irc23:28
* pleia2 nods23:28
bodhi_zazenwhat about the process, how are new members approved ?23:28
bodhi_zazenor do you want to defer that discussion ?23:28
pleia2defer, I think23:28
bodhi_zazenthank yoo23:29
pleia2I'd like to get some other thoughts on this23:29
pleia2ok, so Roles?23:29
bodhi_zazenI think that covers general membership23:29
pleia2ok, so I'm wondering the value of creating sub-teams for Roles23:30
bodhi_zazenyea, sub teams have advantages and disadvantages23:30
bodhi_zazenOnce (if) this team grows it is bound to happen though pleia223:30
pleia2I tend to prefer having a wiki page showing who is doing what, rather than LP tracking it, unless the LP resources are actually useful in some way to the specific subteam, and not of use to the whole team23:31
bodhi_zazenLP is overkill unless the sub team grows larger then life23:31
* pleia2 nods23:31
bodhi_zazenI think all we can do today is discuss very general things23:32
pleia2as for the roles themselves, if we're not tracking them in LP I'm not sure how important it is putting people into "teacher" "admin" etc categories is23:32
bodhi_zazenminimal time commitments I think would help23:32
bodhi_zazenand I think signing teh leadership Coc23:32
pleia2like, if you want to be a website admin, please have an hour or so per week you can devote?23:32
pleia2is there a way to sign the leadership coc?23:33
bodhi_zazenOther then that we need to wait as roles are not defined yet, that should be the next step, and I know there are many ideas on this topic23:33
bodhi_zazennot yet pleia2 , but my understanding is there will be a way to track it in LP soon23:33
pleia2so I think the board certainly should be required to sign the leadership coc23:33
pleia2so for roles, I think it depends upon their "leadershipness" within the team23:34
pleia2but I think that's as far as we can get on this now23:35
pleia2we might even shelve this bit until the project is rolling more and we start needing to define separate parts of the project23:35
pleia2bodhi_zazen: anything to add before we move on?23:36
bodhi_zazenOk, as a small point of order, take a look at the comments I committed to the wiki page =)23:36
bodhi_zazenno pleia2 , thank you23:37
pleia2bodhi_zazen: looks great!23:37
pleia2ok, shall we quickly discuss moderation?23:38
pleia2[TOPIC] Team Structure: Moderation23:38
MootBotNew Topic:  Team Structure: Moderation23:38
pleia2now honestly, this is not something I encounter a need for a lot, bodhi_zazen as the beginners team leader I think you do more than I :)23:38
bodhi_zazenFor now we cna simply defer moderation to the board23:39
pleia2I agree23:39
pleia2and your comments in this section made a lot of sense - get people to try to resolve it themselves first23:39
bodhi_zazenI seem to have skills in moderating and am willing to perform this as needed23:39
pleia2maybe a board member step in and have a private chat with someone if there is a problem23:39
bodhi_zazenI think keep it as general as possible, nothing more then the Coc23:40
bodhi_zazenOver time people may comment on adding this or that23:40
* pleia2 nods23:40
pleia2and if they don't agree with moderation, I think the typical route of going to the community council is appropriate23:40
bodhi_zazenresolve on their own23:41
bodhi_zazenbring to member(s) of the council23:41
bodhi_zazenfull council23:41
bodhi_zazenand CC as a last resort ?23:41
pleia2like in most teams, I don't see it ever getting that far23:42
pleia2anything else on moderation?23:43
bodhi_zazenno =)23:43
pleia2[TOPIC] Team Structure: Elections23:43
MootBotNew Topic:  Team Structure: Elections23:43
pleia2probably need to defer this :)23:43
pleia2I'd say 2 years, people nominate themselves or others, we do a vote - anyone on team can vote23:44
popeyI'd say initially no need for vote23:44
popeyi think the people have pretty much selfselected23:44
pleia2well, we have a board right now, which we'll probably keep for a while23:44
pleia2unless one of us gets a life or something :)23:45
bodhi_zazenI think keep the current structure and set the stage for future23:45
* pleia2 nods23:45
popeyonly need for a vote would be if people stand down or people get restless23:45
bodhi_zazenI think it would be good to have 1 member stay 3 years for continuity (if all the positions are vacated or change)23:46
popeyi initiated a vote for leadership in -uk loco not because I didnt want to do it, but because I wanted someone else to have a go23:46
bodhi_zazenwell popey I think it is good to change leadership from time to time, give everybody a chance to burn out =)23:46
popeyand I think that is sometimes necessary to "freshen up" a team23:46
popeyspread the burn around :)23:46
pleia2[TOPIC] Team Structure: Additional thoughts?23:47
MootBotNew Topic:  Team Structure: Additional thoughts?23:47
pleia2so I think we're going to wrap this up for now23:47
pleia2additional topics we should explore and add to the wiki?23:47
popeycan i mention one more thing?23:48
popeythe doc team is having a meeting on sunday, and we'll likely be talking about screencats, and the role they have to play in docs, so it might be useful to have someone / multiple people from -learning there.23:48
pleia2oh excellent23:48
pleia2popey: can you drop a note to the list with the meeting time and that info?23:49
bodhi_zazenI would like to thank you all for discussing this *dry* topic of team structure23:49
Vantrax|Workhi guys, sorry I missed most of the meeting >.< Had to see a dentist23:49
bodhi_zazenI find it really helps build a team though, gives new members something to consider, make us look cohesive23:49
pleia2bodhi_zazen: thanks for writing up such a great draft! :)23:50
popeysure pleia223:50
MootBotMeeting finished at 17:51.23:51
pleia2thanks everyone :)23:51
* DougieRichardson waves goodnight23:51
bodhi_zazenyes popey ?23:52
popeythat was a wave :)23:53
* DougieRichardson waves night23:53

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