=== mhall1191 is now known as mhall119 [03:47] quiet here [03:52] . === Ahmuck_ is now known as Ahmuck [03:56] hi [03:57] gotta go sleep soon. But I just upgrade a running server from 6.06 to 8.04 about 5000 miles/9000 km away. [03:57] That was fun. Amazing that these people can make such software. [04:03] nighty [04:03] hasta pasta [04:08] hi dgroos [04:08] Howdy Ahmuck [04:11] Ahmuck: here's a sample cmap on the web. It's not a concept map though, just a web: https://cmap.mpls.k12.mn.us/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1GB1J213P-BTSM22-H25Q&partName=htmltext [04:13] oh yea, don't pay attention to the security warnings--I still need to buy and install a certificate from GoDaddy for the site... [04:15] heh [04:18] And here's a more informative one, presenting some of the concepts of the Growing Communities of Scientist project I'm working on. https://cmap.mpls.k12.mn.us/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1168132868165_1388154678_2906&partName=htmltext [04:19] between my students, other teachers and my self, we've got over a thousand of these things. You can also annotate bubbles with links, making this a great tool to explain Edubuntu. [04:20] freemind? [04:30] Lots of lines--nice tree look. More limited layout options and I couldn't figure out how to write the connecting phrases between bubbles which elevates a web or mind-map to a concept map. [04:31] Also, I don't think they do the simultaneous editing of maps which is powerful. [04:31] Have you worked with it? [04:34] freemind? yes [04:35] what have you used it for? [04:42] organizing my thoughts [04:44] I like a lot that it is open source. Is there a server on the web for them so that they can be directly published on the web? [04:44] Hi Svenstaro [04:44] Hiho [04:53] hiyo Svenstaro [04:53] i'm glad to see you [04:54] I should be on IRC more regularly I guess [04:54] interestedin some of the more documentation/wiki stuff? [04:55] Actually, no. Today I'm trying to work down my list of tasks as well as I can despite my ADHD and see how far I can come. The next-next task on my list is fixing up Sabayon. [04:56] Ah! working on Sabayon-- I like to hear that one... [04:57] u might want to hook up with sbalneav or stgraber then. i don't know which. i know they are actively working on it [04:58] Mainly sbalneav, I beleav [04:58] That'd be sbalneav. And yes, I know. I'll try to take the bug report and don't do stuff myself. [04:59] But still, how hard can it be to launch an Xnest, do some stuff in it, end the xnest and put the changes into the students accounts? [04:59] :) [05:00] Nestor explained some of the difficulties involved, sounded like a can of worms. [05:05] There are no problem that a bit of bash hacking couldn't solve :) [05:08] Mhm time for breakfast [05:08] Time for bed :) Night. [05:08] Time for bedfast. Night [07:39] anybody here seen landscape? [07:39] yup [07:41] hows that compare to ltsp? [07:41] hi nubae [07:41] thought you had dropped off the earth [07:41] :) [07:43] why's that? :-) [07:52] Landscape seems to be what would be needed to manage many PCs at once (not thin clients) [07:52] Seems like a good solution for what it does. [07:54] this might be a better solution than ltsp? [07:54] LDAP, NFS, and Landscape? [07:54] though it appears to be a "software as a service" which i hate those type of situations [07:55] It's a completely different solution to the problem. It assumes harddisks on the clients which isn't a bad thing to begin with considering all the problems involved with high network bandwidth and multimedia application on LTSP but it doesn't address thin clients per-se. [10:41] highvoltage pint [10:41] ping even [10:48] nubae: pont and pong [11:11] the package ltsp-cluster-lbagent seems broken in karmic [11:11] have u tested it? [11:12] at least, I can't install it... and stops anything else from being upgraded [11:24] nubae: what happens? [11:30] * Starting ltsp-cluster-lbagent... [fail] [11:30] invoke-rc.d: initscript ltsp-cluster-lbagent, action "start" failed. [11:30] dpkg: error processing ltsp-cluster-lbagent (--configure): [11:40] is that in a chroot ? [11:45] nope [11:45] in a vz [11:47] so daemons can run regulary and you have a proc filesystem and udev runs etc etc [11:48] yup [12:08] so... any ideas why its failing? I've tried it on another karmic image, with the same results [12:24] nubae: it happens here as well, [12:24] nubae: it's because start-stop-daemon doesn't "understand --daemon" [12:26] nubae: sorry, that was just because I didn't have some variables set, I'll get on it [12:31] ok, how can I fix it locally for now? [12:34] nubae: I'm looking at the start-stop-deamon man page, but the line actually looks fine [12:34] nubae: I'll have to ask stgraber [12:35] looks like lbagent module is missing [12:36] root@ltsp-appserv01:/# ltsp-cluster-lbagent [12:36] Traceback (most recent call last): [12:36] File "/usr/sbin/ltsp-cluster-lbagent", line 5, in [12:36] from lbagent import main [12:36] ImportError: No module named lbagent [12:37] well its not missing, just can't find it === vorian is now known as LadiesMan217 [14:13] Anyone know where I can get newish docs for the Sabayon (profile management)? I've seen this blog but it's pretty old and not complete: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/sabayon [14:17] dgroos, you are most likely out of luck there [14:18] :( === LadiesMan217 is now known as vorian [14:48] morning [14:48] is Sabayon only for Gnome, or would it work for XFCE too? [14:50] Morning mhall119|work [14:50] That Q is beyond me... [14:52] Now if you had a question about sequencing instructional units or useful activities to teach the 3 kinds of tectonic plate interaction :) ... === Guest47454 is now known as jussi01 [15:01] BTW have you checked out this page of Edubuntu Community overview? We have yet to have a developer or consultant enliven their sections. [15:01] http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AfDSviukLb6wZGdzY2huOHhfMTFndGY0ZGRnYw&hl=en [15:06] dgroos: yeah i've looked at it, seen that it is update too [15:06] i wouldnt have high hopes of anyone adding too it [15:06] for different reasons [15:06] i was going to mail the list about it and how it's a good idea [15:07] but i would have also converted it to the wiki and ask you to see if you canwork with that [15:07] the problem with the google doc as is is that you have to invite people to participate [15:08] i might mail about it this week [15:08] first i wanted to see how it developed :_) [15:20] ace_suares: I agreee that this info needs to go on our wiki. [15:21] I also agree that any new technology has an entrance curve, I remember you saying that about the wiki. [15:22] I also think that google-docs has advantages not offered by our wiki eg wysiwyg editing, simultaneous editing and easy versioning. [15:24] If you added some developer and/or consultant perspectives, we would be closer... [15:25] As a teacher (and I've created a few pages on the wiki too) I do like these wysiwyg features. [18:07] dgroos: i like the wysiwig too but edubuntu has the wiki now [18:07] I hope to at least clean up the wiki and then discuss other tools [18:08] * ogra points to gobby [18:08] you got to explain me one day how we can all edit the googledoc, i mean, should we all have an account at some place that automatically gives access, maybe via openid [18:23] gobby is good for real-time collaboration [18:24] but it doesn't have the permanance of a wiki [18:24] try gobby.ubuntu.com with it ;) [18:25] if you have a central server its great for WIP documents [18:25] which you then dump into the wiki [18:40] I like--better said, love--wikis. They are the shared knowledge repositories of a community. [18:41] mhall119|work: it would be so nice if wiki's had gobby-like features [18:42] Thanks ace_suares for your focus on wiki-cleaning. [18:42] ace_suares: how is the wiki-cleaning going? [18:43] I was looking at google-docs again and it seems a new feature (I've not seen it before) is sharing with a list-serve. Not sure how it works. Let me try it and see... [18:44] http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=86152&topic=15129 [18:46] oops--here's the link to sharing with lists: http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=66343 [18:49] any need for a icecast/ices radio broadcast doc? [18:51] OK--I've tried to share w/both user and devel lists and supposedly doesn't require sign-in--not tried before. [18:51] dgroos: cppl so its possible. I like the gobby suggestion too. For instance, you and Ahmuck would could be working on a documents enhancing Gavins instructions and the make a wiki page from it... for example [18:52] thats how we work at UDS, all people discussing a spec use gobby and take notes in the same document ... at the end of the discussion the doc gets turned into a wikipage [18:52] ace_suares: my backs against the wall here at work. i'm overextended. if you have a particular task, i'll take small tasks, but you'll have to assign them [18:53] so what would it take to get gobby to work here? [18:53] apt-get install gooby :) [18:53] ace_suares cppl? Calcasieu Parish Public Library? [18:53] and in the connection dialog use gobby.ubuntu.com [18:54] ubuntu is causing me attention deficit disorder :( [18:55] Using google docs is silly, yet another resource to look after. WE HAVE ENOUGH DISTRIBUTION. Sorry for the caps. [18:55] Gobby sounds very cool. Let me check it out and I'll get back--I'll try to convert the google doc and see how that goes as well. [18:56] Svenstaro--google-docs is only a temp. collab. tool. I use it for creating a grant, planning a trip, etc. It's a powerful tool for such. [18:57] abiword ? [18:58] ogra, so i've got gobby [18:58] and connected [18:58] creating a test doc won't hurt? [19:00] ace_suares: so ur commited to managing the wiki? [19:18] ogra: k, got it [19:18] i see a list of docs, i assume they are something that was actively worked on and are available to edit ? [19:20] dgroos: u here? [19:21] hi all, i have a question about interest on this channel in sugar [19:21] working on installing gobby on my mac--while I've already have X11 installed, looks like I need gcc and more and there isn't a simple apt-get... [19:21] has it been a topic here? [19:22] it has been [19:22] I'm moving to my Ubuntu [19:22] nubae has been pushing to get it done [19:22] Ahmuck: great [19:22] thanks [19:22] jelkner: ur question? [19:22] i'd like to see it. iirc, it has not been packaged. [19:22] i'd like to use it [19:23] Ahmuck: let's talk [19:23] i am *very* interested in sugar [19:23] since i work in a school [19:23] u develop? [19:23] sort of [19:23] i'm a teacher ;-) [19:23] been to the #sugar channel? [19:23] (those that can, do and all ;-) [19:24] all the time [19:24] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs_DC [19:24] welcome teachers! [19:24] in fact, i had a student intern working all summer on a sugar project [19:25] specifically, he was working on gasp, and adding it to pippy [19:25] what i'm grappling with now is what we here in dc should take on next [19:25] one possibility is contributing to soas [19:26] but that is fedora [19:26] and i'm an ubuntu guy [19:26] so i wanted to ask here first if there is interest in getting sugar to work again on ubuntu [19:26] (or work for the first time, really) [19:26] it sort of worked on hardy [19:26] but not really [19:27] i want to see if there is a way we can contribute [19:27] and find out what has been going on [19:33] jelkner: morgs has been working on sugar packaging, but besides that interest has been relatively low. there's been a few people who wanted to try it out [19:33] actually i think nubae would enjoy the help [19:33] or morgs [19:34] i'd like to see it, but haven't been able to, as i understand it doesn't quit work in ubuntu [19:35] if interest is relatively low (as unfortunate as that may be), then i would find more fertile fields to sow elsewhere [19:35] that's what i wanted to figure out [19:35] *sigh* [19:35] i'm ready to be an active participant in an effort [19:35] what would be low interest? [19:35] considered [19:35] not sure [19:36] basically, i have much enthusiasm but limited skills [19:36] that can be a recipe for trouble [19:36] i think for sugar to have a higher interest on *ubuntu, first it's going to need a package that works [19:36] ah, ok [19:37] Ahmuck: precisely [19:37] that's the kind of thing i can't do [19:37] i'm interested in: [19:37] maybee a document on how to get current sugar to work on ubuntu (not from package repos) [19:37] 1. learning and teaching sugar development [19:37] 2. using sugar with kids (and other learners) [19:38] 3. writing educational materials for sugar [19:38] 4. developing Activities for sugar [19:38] what i can't do is [19:38] 1. the low level os stuff to make sugar work with ubuntu [19:39] 2. packaging [19:39] though i have a few students who can package [19:39] jelkner: imho sugar doesn't really get the credit it deserves, it's a pity about negreponte's recent comments as well [19:39] Hey all [19:39] highvoltage: sugar is *really cool* [19:39] hey Lns [19:40] i didn't see negroponte's comments [19:40] jelkner: I'll find a link [19:40] FYI, since you're talking about Sugar, the IT director at the district I work with is VERY interested in Sugar for the younger students [19:40] but i don't particularly care what he thinks [19:40] it would be *awesome* to get it working well via ltsp [19:40] Lns: totally! [19:40] we run ubuntu in my classroom both ways [19:41] ltsp and local boot to hard drive [19:41] jelkner: based on your comments, i'd say that what you and do can be done for sugar in general [19:41] more importantly, there is currently an interest in documentation for apps in ubuntu [19:41] jelkner: http://www.olpcnews.com/people/negroponte/olpc_biggest_mistake_sugar.html [19:42] and it would appear that your interested in "neutral" stuff, i think it'd be great if you were writing, etc [19:43] highvoltage: thanks [19:43] it is interesting [19:43] sugar is an ambitious project [19:43] it was also not ready at olpc launch [19:44] it is only getting "ready" now [19:44] but it is very cool [19:44] kids love it [19:44] and it will only get better [19:44] jelkner: I agree [19:45] so the question is am trying to resolve here today is: [19:45] what makes more sense: working with sugar as a fedora spin (since redhat does have interest and is supporting it) [19:46] or checking out my friends in ubuntu space to see if there is interest over here [19:46] jelkner: imho working with sugar as a generic, portable, classic OSS project (not distro based) would be best [19:46] jelkner: are they mutually exclusive? [19:47] my long term goal is to develop an educational program around supporting and developing sugar [19:47] jelkner: I know that myself, LaserJock, morgs and a few others would very, very much like sugar packaged and well-integrated [19:47] highvoltage: not at all, but given limited time and resources, i wanted to figure out where to focus now [19:47] in the long term i'll be looking for sugar on my favorite os ;-) [19:48] jelkner: yep, that's a constant struggle, figuring out where to apply yourself best [19:48] (I know it is for me, at least) [19:48] but for the time being if there is not ubuntu community interest i should wait for that to materialize (which i think it eventually will) [19:48] highvoltage: i totally agree with you [19:49] and it is requires constant reevaluation as things change [19:49] so this is just a "checking in for now" visit [19:49] to see what's up [19:49] you have been most helpful [19:49] jelkner: I do suggest you talk to morgs as well [19:50] can i email him? [19:50] jelkner: he'll be able to give you a *very* good idea of what's happeing with the ubuntu packages. I think he got very close to getting it right in the last release [19:50] cool [19:50] i should definitely do that first, then [19:50] jelkner: yep, morgan@ubuntu.com [19:50] * jelkner goes off to write an email... [19:51] awesome :) [20:10] highvoltage: a swing and a miss [20:10] i sent an email [20:10] but it bounced [20:10] i cc'd you [20:11] 550 Mailbox quota exceeded (in reply to RCPT TO command) [20:11] did you get it? [20:17] i've got to run... i'll follow up tomorrow [20:19] Does anyone here have an Ubuntu Jaunty LTSP setup they can test tux4kids apps on with sound? We need to figure out whether the issues in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxpaint/+bug/269082 are still present in Jaunty...it would be much appreciated!! [20:19] Launchpad bug 269082 in tuxpaint "tuxpaint and other tux SDL driven apps slow down and/or freeze thin client terminals (ltsp)" [High,Confirmed] [20:39] Lns: i do, but i've got no time to test today [20:40] iirc, it was SDL sound [20:40] Ahmuck: yeah that's what i hear it is too [20:40] and then the ball is dropped since upstream SDL [20:40] i have problems with pulse on my system [20:40] there is some question as it might be 64 bit proc, 32 bit server, and 32 bit clients [20:41] what problems? [20:41] sound quits, and reverts to the server [20:42] to get sound back, i have to re-start clients [20:42] hmmm... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl1.2/+bug/216397 [20:42] Launchpad bug 216397 in libsdl1.2 "sdl patch for better pulseaudio support" [Medium,Confirmed] [20:47] Not sure when to mention this... Since installing jaunty, when ltsp client boots, the beautiful sound it used to make now has static/ almost firecracker sounds in the background. Any one else seen this? not just on 1 client machine. [20:48] same here [20:48] at first, thought it was the 'new sound of jaunty'. but not nice. [20:50] no, something broke in jaunty [20:50] maybe that's about on par w/latest ubuntu ltsp installs stability? ;) [20:50] *static* means "You're in for some problems!!" [20:50] *grin* [21:32] hi [21:32] does anyone have the email address for jelkner who was interested in sugar ? [21:55] ace_suares: jeff@elkner.net [21:55] highvoltage: thx! [22:04] Hi sbalneav [22:04] I've reinstalled jaunty, hoping that would cure my sabayon ills. To no avail. [22:05] What should I do with the logs? Is it your birthday? ;) [23:43] find a way to keep jelkner. he's an instructor, the kind of people edubuntu needs [23:45] actually i see a group coming togather. ace_suares, dgroos, jelkner, nubae, lns, mhall119, sbalneav stgraber highvoltage alkisg svenstaro, ogra - did i miss anybody? a mixture of non-tech, non-programmers, programmers, etc. [23:46] Who are highlight my devine name. [23:46] * Lns raises an eyebrow [23:46] er, sorry, i forgot laserjock (didn't see his nick in the list) [23:46] who what? [23:47] Heh... yup, lotsa people, I think edubuntu revival is actually possible now... [23:47] alkisg, with that attitude, you don't even need to be here. Practice your optimism somewhere else! [23:47] :p [23:48] :D [23:48] Ahmuck: so a "group" huh? [23:49] *shrugs* a working group that is moving forward, excitedly. (is that what we call a mob) [23:49] or schoolground scuffle [23:49] ;) [23:49] I think an official group is necessary for us Educationally involved, Linux thin-client folk [23:50] I've been trying to think of how to manifest something like that [23:50] actually i don't think it needs to be restricted to thin clients anymore. with wiki power, it's possible to outline three server/client scenarios [23:50] 1. ltsp [23:50] 2. ldap/nfs etc. [23:51] 3. ubuntu server thingy [23:51] Explain 3. please [23:52] oh, i ran into it the other day when do a ubuntu server install [23:52] No I mean, what would it imply? [23:52] i'll need some time to think. i've been pushing 12 hour days, and i'm exhausted. brain won't work until i get more foooood! [23:52] Install Ubuntu Server on every client? [23:52] have you guys heard of schoolforge? [23:52] ah, no, one server maintians updates, machine configuraion, user confiugriona [23:53] http://www.schoolforge.net/ [23:53] it's there, but it appears to be "software as a service" [23:53] But the other clients are all harddisk installed? [23:53] however from a school point of view, it works [23:53] yes, ubuntu is installed on every machine, one to track them all. kind of like Lord of the Ubuntus [23:53] if i understand it correctly [23:53] Ahmuck: you're thinking about "Puppet" i think [23:54] lns, looking at link now [23:54] lns, nope [23:54] That's neat. So pretty much like Landscape [23:54] but that is another options i suppose [23:54] Svenstaro: yes, landscape is what i was talking about [23:54] technically any one of those four scenerios are possible, just need to be outlined in the wiki [23:55] with guidence on teh best option so the end user can make the intelligent choice that works for them [23:55] Good thing we're on the same track. I had independantly figured those 3 out as the most feasible. [23:55] LTSP should expliciply deal with localapps. [23:55] Ahmuck: http://www.canonical.com/projects/landscape [23:56] err... everyone... ^^^ =) [23:56] Even more concretely, it should deal with Firefox. [23:58] hmm...landscape looks very promising...though does anyone have any actual experience with it? [23:58] No, it's proprietary :( [23:59] Not usable for school therefor [23:59] proprietary? it's a service