[00:14] <alexkay> mpt: djsiegel: ping?
[00:46] <alexkay> djsiegel1: ping?
[00:47] <djsiegel1> hey alexkay
[00:47] <djsiegel1> what's up?
[00:48] <alexkay> hey! lamalex said that you could help, at banshee we have a design problem...
[00:48] <alexkay> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559013
[00:50] <alexkay> we are not sure the last patch is the best way to handle it.... you can see the screen-shot in comment #6
[00:50] <SiDi> alexkay: i'd be prone to reduce this to a simple "import music" thatd open a FolderChooserDialog
[00:51] <djsiegel1> alexkay: I don't see any screenshots
[00:51] <alexkay> SiDi: it's not only from folders... we have importers from other media players (amarok, rhymebox, itunes)
[00:51] <alexkay> djsiegel1: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=136541
[00:51] <SiDi> alexkay: that wasnt in 1.4.3, right ?
[00:52] <alexkay> SiDi: no, it's recent
[00:52] <SiDi> okey
[00:52] <SiDi> cause 1.4.3 offers to import home/any folder/any files/"videos from your photo folder"
[00:52] <alexkay> some stuff only exists in the form of patches
[00:52] <SiDi> Which can easily be turned into one single thing :)
[00:53] <alexkay> SiDi: the idea is that we have many importers, each of them with their unique import options
[00:53] <alexkay> the last patch adds the list of options under the comobobox listing the importers
[00:53] <djsiegel1> alexkay: first of all, you guys repeat the window title bar in the window
[00:54] <djsiegel1> I would change the text to "Choose an import source and click 'Import'"
[00:54] <djsiegel1> and change the button to "Import"
[00:54] <djsiegel1> you are calling them "import sources" and "media sources"
[00:55] <djsiegel1> Maybe "Choose a source to import from:" and the import button could say "Next" ?
[00:56] <djsiegel1> alexkay: I am a bit confused because I don't see how the import feature works with the other sources
[00:56] <djsiegel1> I think you might be best splitting these out
[00:56] <djsiegel1> have File > Import Media from Folder
[00:56] <djsiegel1> that goes directly to a GtkFileChooser
[00:57] <djsiegel1> then have another entry in the File menu, File > Import from... > { Amarok, Mass Storage Device, Network } whatever
[00:57] <djsiegel1> you could get rid of this dialog entirely
[00:57] <alexkay> djsiegel1: the problem is the the folder importer will get options as well, so a simple file chooser won't work
[00:57] <djsiegel1> the folder importer will get options?
[00:57] <djsiegel1> present the options after the person chooses the files/folders to import
[00:58] <alexkay> we have a pending patch to import ratings, playcounts etc... these will be options during import
[00:58] <djsiegel1> 99% of the time, users are going to import files/folders
[00:58] <djsiegel1> it might be nice to have a dedicated menu item, Import Media from Folder, that does not present the user with the other importers
[00:59] <djsiegel1> you could let the user pick the folder, then present the options
[00:59] <djsiegel1> 1. File > Import Media from Folder
[00:59] <djsiegel1> 2. GtkFileChooser to pick folder(s)
[00:59] <djsiegel1> 3. Import confirmation dialog with options
[01:00] <SiDi> imo you could hold this all in "import media from folder" and "import from other players"
[01:00] <SiDi> and you put your fancy stuff with the dialog in the second option
[01:00] <SiDi> because what you have right now is a bit of overkill when one just wants to import his music folder
[01:00] <djsiegel1> right
[01:00] <djsiegel1> confirmation dialog could show the folder path that is going to be imported from, the number/size of the files, and there you could have your options (ignore duplicates, import ratings), and  cancel and Import buttons
[01:01] <djsiegel1> would be a lot simpler for users who just want to find a folder and import their files
[01:01] <alexkay> we also allow to import individual files, should it be a separate menu item as well?
[01:01] <djsiegel1> alexkay: no, users don't make that distinction
[01:02] <SiDi> but its hard to make a file/folder chooser dialog, djsiegel1 
[01:02] <djsiegel1> files and folders are "my music stuff"
[01:02] <alexkay> but the GtkFileChooser works either on files or on folders
[01:02] <SiDi> though i dont see the use of file importing, alexkay 
[01:02] <djsiegel1> yes, it does
[01:02] <djsiegel1> some people want to import the mp3 they just downloaded to their desktop
[01:02] <SiDi> and how long will the files stay on the desktop ?
[01:03] <djsiegel1> that's not our problem
[01:03] <djsiegel1> for most users, indefinitely :)
[01:03] <djsiegel1> I mean, it is our problem, but it's not the problem we are solving now
[01:03] <djsiegel1> people do import individual song files
[01:03] <djsiegel1> and, people are importing media
[01:03] <djsiegel1> they might import that 2gb HD file they just got off a torrent
[01:04] <alexkay> exactly
[01:05] <alexkay> so, how would it look like then? two menu items for files/folders is bad... and the file chooser cannot select files and folders at the same time
[01:05] <djsiegel1> are you sure?
[01:05] <djsiegel1> alexkay: I think it can
[01:05] <alexkay> to be honest, no :)
[01:05] <djsiegel1> I am pretty sure it can
[01:06] <djsiegel1> I am not certain though
[01:06] <SiDi> it can with gtk tweaking
[01:06] <SiDi> but it wouldnt be extra at all
[01:06] <djsiegel1> I am pretty sure GtkFilechooser just picks a set of paths
[01:06] <djsiegel1> you can set options telling it which paths to filter out by extension
[01:06] <SiDi> on file chosing dialogs, using the open button when selecting a folder opens it in the chooser, while it'll chose it and end the dialog in a folder chooser
[01:06] <djsiegel1> ewww
[01:08] <alexkay> just checked, the dialog takes the action parameter, which is either 'open' or 'select folder'
[01:08] <alexkay> so, it cannot do both
[01:11] <alexkay> djsiegel1: as for the other importers, do you suggest a sub menu item for each of them, e.g. iTunes, amarok, rhythbox, etc?
[01:11] <alexkay> opening a dialog with options specific to the importer?
[01:12] <SiDi> mrooney: you can use the translators comments, too ;)
[01:12] <djsiegel1> alexkay: yes
[01:12] <djsiegel1> alexkay: I suggest that
[01:14] <SiDi> mrooney: refferring to the old bug report you commented a few mins ago
[01:14] <alexkay> ok guys, thanks for your suggestions!
[01:14] <mrooney> SiDi: I never figured out how to get those into Rosetta :[
[01:14] <SiDi> mrooney: 2 hours ago actually haha :D
[01:14] <SiDi> mrooney: just add a #comment the line just above the string
[01:14] <mrooney> But I think you have to pass xgettext some command when generating the templates
[12:03]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[14:21] <MDC2> hi! any suggestion of stock icon to use instead of gtk-dialog-warning inside the entry as in this screenshot http://www.mejlamej.nu/n-w.png
[14:21] <MDC2> the icon will be displayed when the path is local and does not exists
[14:22] <MDC2> http://www.mejlamej.nu/nautilus-entry.png - an example using the stop icon.. 
[14:24] <beuno> MDC2, you could make the font red
[14:25] <MDC2> beuno, hmm, yeah... I'll discuss this with david s (his idea actually)
[14:37] <SiDi> MDC2: http://imagebin.ca/img/3QXJrHkG.png
[14:38] <SiDi> i dont know if it works for everyone but in europe this symbol is used to say a path/road is forbidden
[14:38] <SiDi> so its quite explicit that you *cant go there*, for europeans at least, with this icon
[14:40] <beuno> yeah, I think that icon is used in other places as well
[14:40] <beuno> MDC2, if you want to be super awesome
[14:40] <beuno> you could highlight which part of the path is wrong
[14:41] <beuno> all of it, or the last part, etc
[14:41] <SiDi> beuno: it looks logical to me that its somewhere in the end ;)
[14:45] <mac_v> MDC2: this is for the pop-up location?
[14:45] <mac_v> location bar
[14:47] <mac_v> MDC2: gtk-dialog-error is more logical i suppose
[14:47] <mac_v> or event status/error icon , 
[15:00] <mac_v> MacSlow: hi... the notification icons in karmic , are now more pixelated , does it have to be changed in notify-osd or in the theme?
[15:01] <MacSlow> mac_v, they should not
[15:01] <MacSlow> and without a screenshot it's hard to say
[15:01] <mac_v> MacSlow: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot.png
[15:01] <MacSlow> much depends on the set theme
[15:01] <mac_v> MacSlow: kwwii insists its a notify-osd bug
[15:02] <MacSlow> what's wrong with that screenshot... it's super-crips
[15:02] <MacSlow> crisp
[15:02] <mac_v> the volume icon  bars are pixelated... wait i'll show the wireless
[15:04] <MDC2> mac_v, yes this is the popup
[15:05] <MDC2> mac_v, but the icon is supposed to be inside the entry, not in the dialog..
[15:06] <mac_v> MDC2: the "error" icon is for errors
[15:06] <MDC2> beuno, djsiegel didn't like rred font color...
[15:07] <MDC2> mac_v, yep, any suggestion of another icon to use?
[15:07] <mac_v> MacSlow: kwwii http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot.png note the bars they merge 
[15:07] <djsiegel> MDC2: what about a label under the entry, invisible unless path is invalid, then it could say "Location does not exist"
[15:07] <mac_v> MDC2: you can use the "error" that is the icon label
[15:08] <mac_v> MacSlow: kwwii the bars where smoother in Jaunty
[15:08] <MacSlow> mac_v, ehm... a side-by-side would have been better
[15:08] <mac_v> ah :( now i have to boot into jaunty :(
[15:09] <MacSlow> mac_v, side-by-side (wireless + volume) for current notify-osd in karmic, same for jaunty
[15:09] <MDC2> mav_c, djsiegel, so not use an icon at all?
[15:09] <MacSlow> mac_v, that's the best way to see any differences in relation to each different version
[15:10] <MDC2> SiDi, what stock icon is it on the screenshot? gtk-stop?
[15:10] <mac_v> wait i think i have backups
[15:10] <mac_v> MDC2: that is the error icon ;p
[15:10] <mac_v> in SiDi's
[15:10]  * SiDi doesnt know
[15:10] <djsiegel> MDC2: I still like using the icon
[15:11] <djsiegel> DanRabbit: ping
[15:11] <MDC2> mac_v, isnt gtk-error part of standarrd stock? http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-Stock-Items.html
[15:12] <MDC2> djsiegel, how about this: use a folder icon if it's found, network folder for remote folders, and folder with ? if unknown?
[15:13] <djsiegel> eh
[15:13] <mac_v> MDC2: it is a standard but it is not in gnome icons or human.... check this one out /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/status/error.svg , 
[15:13] <djsiegel> can I type a file there?
[15:14] <mac_v> MacSlow: kwwii  http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-3.png
[15:14] <mac_v> volume icon...
[15:16] <MacSlow> mac_v, the new look is much more precise and crisper... thus not a regression at all compared to jaunty
[15:16] <MacSlow> mac_v, it's all still cairo and svg in case you wonder
[15:16] <mac_v> MacSlow: you are right , the icons need adjustment , but kwwii feels its a notify-osd bug
[15:17] <MacSlow> mac_v, I don't think there's anything wrong with either the icons or notify-osd
[15:18] <MacSlow> odd that kwwii thinks icons are off in jaunty
[15:18] <mac_v> its just me then ... http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-1.png dont the bars looks fudged?
[15:18] <mac_v> wireless^
[15:19] <MacSlow> mac_v, the top version (karmic) is certainly nicer to look at than the bottom one
[15:19] <mac_v> note the first bar
[15:19] <mac_v> i like it , but its *not* pixel aligned well, IMO
[15:20] <MacSlow> mac_v, that's impossible with the way the designers want notify-osd to render stuff
[15:20] <MDC2> djsiegel, I don't think we can type a file, wich is kinda sad, it would be nice..
[15:20] <MacSlow> mac_v, there's nothing kwwii could do about it
[15:20] <mac_v> ah... well.. ;p
[15:21] <MDC2> djsiegel, shall we go with the error icon as mac_v suggested?
[15:21] <MacSlow> notify-osd is designed and written in a way to be resolution in dependent... trying to inject certain pixel-alinged icons asks for more complexity and trouble than it's worth it
[15:22] <mac_v> MacSlow: i understand that its not a notify-osd issue , i first talked to kwwii , he said it was your bug, hence discussed with you... i feel the icons need a bit of adjustment
[15:23] <MacSlow> mac_v, everybody has different screen-DPI, font-sizes set
[15:23] <MacSlow> mac_v, one can't anticipate this in a general fashion for icon-design
[15:24]  * MacSlow hopes the days of "pixel-counting" are over
[15:24] <mac_v> hehe... me too. :)
[15:26] <mac_v> kwwii: your thoughts? have you noticed any difference in these new screenshots? or are these fine as is?
[15:26] <djsiegel> MDC2: sounds reasonable, see what upstream thinks of the screenshot
[15:26] <djsiegel> MDC2: if you could use a nice theme on your desktop, it would be more convincing upstream
[15:26] <djsiegel> MDC2: you have an incredibly ugly desktop
[15:26] <djsiegel> all boxy
[15:26] <djsiegel> try Murrina Candido
[15:27] <mac_v> MDC2: still facing gnome-settings-daemon crashes ?
[15:30] <kwwii> hrm, the icons are at a fixed size, so they should always be sharp at that size
[15:30] <kwwii> MacSlow: are the icons being scaled? that would not be the best idea, really
[15:30] <MDC2> djsiegel, mac_v; its not my normal desktop - i could not stand such a ugly desktop. But the problem is when i use NX - the daemon crashes directly upon start
[15:30] <MDC2> haven't got time to look in that.. 
[15:31] <mac_v> kwwii: the icons are pixelated with sans 10 settings too
[15:31] <MDC2> djsiegel, i'll provide better screenshots for upstream (once I got a deb package i can install to one of my virtual machines)
[15:32] <MacSlow> kwwii, if course they are... they need to because of the in-bubble size-calculations done in EMs
[15:32] <djsiegel> MDC2: ah, it looked like something had crashed
[15:32] <MacSlow> kwwii, this is a fundamental design-feature of notify-osd (the specs of it and its implementation)
[15:32] <MDC2> djsiegel, i also manage to fix the signal problem by setting _after to the signal inside eel. So if I enter an incorrect remote path i'll get back to the open location dialog with the same path
[15:33] <djsiegel> MDC2: awesome
[15:33] <MacSlow> kwwii, if you see a problem with that... take the fight to mat_t and mpt :)
[15:33] <MDC2> its not optimal as its an extra popup, but its better than before, i'll see what upstream has to say once I polished the patch
[15:34] <kwwii> MacSlow: wow, that totally breaks the icon theme idea though
[15:35] <MacSlow> kwwii, did you never see -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Inside%20the%20bubble
[15:35] <MacSlow> kwwii, that's been in place since jaunty
[15:35] <mat_t> kwwii: bubble size is variable, so they have to scale
[15:35] <mac_v> mat_t: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-1.png http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-3.png  
[15:35] <kwwii> MacSlow: well, it hasn't been my job to work on that, other than to make the icons...and at the time I was told to make them at 48x48 pixels
[15:36] <kwwii> I honestly didn't look into the specifics of that page
[15:36] <mat_t> kwwii: there's a massive difference in quality though between the svg preview in the system, and notify-osd rendering
[15:36] <MacSlow> kwwii, I don't really see any issue with them on any of my machines really
[15:37] <MacSlow> kwwii, mat_t: I'd say true resulution indepence comes at a cost... and for my (picky) eyes it more than acceptable
[15:37] <MacSlow> hm... I had better times at spelling english
[15:37] <kwwii> I hadn't noticed any problems on my machines, but mac_v brought it up ;)
[15:38] <mat_t> MacSlow: yes, it is acceptable
[15:38] <mac_v> mat_t: note the icons are not sharp, they need a bit of adjustment for karmic
[15:38] <MacSlow> kwwii, from mac_v screenshots I honestly don't see any issues... just what I expect (and also see on my machines... netbook, laptop, desktop)
[15:39] <mat_t> MacSlow: yes, mac_v's icons seem sharp
[15:39] <mac_v> MacSlow: the curved bars being pixelated is normal , but the straight bars *should not* have pixelation , 
[15:40] <mac_v> the *icons* need a bit of a of pixel tweak
[15:40]  * MacSlow always welcomes solid patches (with proper and complete unit-tests)
[15:40] <mat_t> mac_v: try previewing the same svg in the system preview, is there any difference?
[15:41] <mat_t> mac_v: since they're scalable, there is no way of pixel-tweaking really. It's always going to be better at some sizes and worse at others
[15:41] <MDC2> djsiegel, btw, should the icon appear in all location entries or just the popup?
[15:42] <djsiegel> what other location entries, for example?
[15:42] <MDC2> the standard in-window bar
[15:42] <MDC2> in the toolbar
[15:43] <MDC2> the thing is this is a custom widget inside nautilus and it could be nice to have the same look and feel for the same control all over nautilus
[15:43] <mac_v> mat_t: the problem arises for the wireless icons since they are not perfect rectangles , the have curved edges , this problem can be avoided if the bars had straight angles
[15:44] <mac_v> and its tough to notice the difference in system preview , because of the transparency the have surrounding he icons
[15:45] <mac_v> they*
[15:45] <mat_t> mac_v: try putting them on grey background in inkscape
[15:45] <mac_v> hehe... just did that...
[15:46] <mac_v> mat_t: yup same problem , as the bubbles
[15:46] <djsiegel> brb
[15:47] <mac_v> mat_t: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-notification-network-wireless-full.svg%20-%20Inkscape.png
[15:48] <mat_t> mac_v: yeah, that's probably as good as it gets at that size
[15:48] <mac_v> mat_t: could we use the bars as having straight angles?
[15:49] <mac_v> this spoils the look of the bubbles
[15:49] <mat_t> mac_v: not really... that would make them lose the uniqueness
[15:49] <mac_v> arghhh... ;p
[15:50] <mat_t> :)
[15:51] <SiDi> mat_t: hello ! is there a reason why notify-osd doesnt ship all the notification-* icons at the moment ?
[15:51] <mat_t> SiDi: no idea!
[15:51] <mat_t> kwwii: MacSlow: ^
[15:52] <SiDi> MacSlow said "see this with the design team"
[15:52] <SiDi> it lacks some audio icons, the new battery icons, and, i think, a lot of the extra wireless icons
[15:52] <mat_t> well, then... kwwii?
[15:52] <mat_t> yes I have noticed that, too
[15:53] <mat_t> I think it's because the new packages are not patched to call the right icon
[15:53] <kwwii> SiDi: you mean the new icons you sent me?
[15:53] <mac_v> SiDi: which location? human/ or elsewhere
[15:53] <kwwii> erm, was that you that sent them to me?
[15:54] <SiDi> kwwii: these and many others
[15:54] <mac_v> lol
[15:54] <SiDi> since jaunty they have been lacking
[15:54] <mat_t> kwwii: are you not running Karmic?
[15:54] <SiDi> when i tested humanity, audio notifications were gone because there were no volume icons ;)
[15:55] <SiDi> notify-osd should ship each notification-* icon in the package as backup
[15:55] <SiDi> at the moment we relay on human being there :/
[15:55] <kwwii> SiDi: I am just updating the human theme today
[15:55] <kwwii> SiDi: also, a bug needs to be made to get the new names into code
[15:55] <SiDi> aw
[15:55] <kwwii> SiDi: ahhh, you are now talking about the icons in the package itself
[15:55] <SiDi> there is one somewhere already :P
[15:56] <kwwii> SiDi: anyone is free to work on those
[15:56] <SiDi> kwwii: im talking about these since the beginning xD
[15:56] <kwwii> SiDi: hrm? are you talking about the human icons or the ones in the package itself?
[15:56] <kwwii> ie the plain gnome icons?
[15:57]  * SiDi means : the notify-osd package doesn't have the whole scope of notification-* icons in use by apps
[15:57] <SiDi> Which results in lacking icons when not using Human
[15:57] <mat_t> kwwii: yes, there's just no icons at all in most bubbles
[15:57] <SiDi> Sorry, i'm not very clear
[15:58] <mat_t> kwwii: in some, not most
[15:58] <SiDi> http://pastebin.com/m3c64d212 kwwii 
[15:58] <mac_v> in Karmic the notify-osd/ has only gnome icons! :?
[15:59] <SiDi> http://pastebin.com/mcf6c15c
[15:59] <kwwii> SiDi: the ones in the package are free for anyone to work on
[15:59] <SiDi> and yeh, it has some damn tango-ish icons instead of the sexy Human ones :p
[16:00] <kwwii> if the human icons are not being shown, that is another problem 
[16:00] <SiDi> kwwii: okies
[16:00] <mac_v> SiDi: those are gnome icons
[16:00] <kwwii> SiDi: right, the ones in the package itself are supposed to be gnome icons
[16:00] <kwwii> whereas the ones in the human set are the nice ones ;)
[16:00] <SiDi> okey :P
[16:00] <SiDi> it means i have to make a PACKAGE with separate human notification icons >_>
[16:00] <SiDi> for my own use * :P
[16:01] <mac_v> i think the problem with humanity is because it doesnt have Human as the fallback ,  but rather gnome as the fallback
[16:01] <SiDi> ok, as for the notify-osd ones, when you say free to work on, you mean free to package existing gnome icons or free to design these missing icons ? :/
[16:01] <mac_v> DanRabbit: ^ is it so?
[16:03] <djsiegel1> mat_t, beuno, our clock applet shows the weekday and date in its tooltip, and of course on click -- can we remove the day and date from the panel and just show the time?
[16:09] <beuno> djsiegel1, for some reason, I feel safer seing the date
[16:09] <beuno> has the tooltip been fixed in karmic?
[16:09] <beuno> in jaunty the tooltip is bogus
[16:09] <djsiegel1> "fixed"?
[16:09] <djsiegel1> seems fine to me in karmic
[16:09] <djsiegel1> keep in mind you will probably feel "unsafe" whenever an interface fixture is removed
[16:10] <beuno> in jaunty it says "Click to view your appointments and tasks"
[16:10] <djsiegel1> in Karmic is says the date
[16:10] <beuno> great
[16:10] <beuno> I'm trying to think how I'd feel
[16:10] <beuno> I guess I only need to know the date once a day
[16:10] <beuno> :)
[16:11] <djsiegel1> yeah, it might be nice to have weather and time because they change during the day
[16:11] <beuno> agreed
[16:14] <mat_t> djsiegel1: is date and weather the default now?
[16:14] <mat_t> djsiegel1: I was under the impression they are opt-in
[16:14] <djsiegel1> yes, but weather only shows if you set your location
[16:14] <djsiegel1> default is
[16:14] <mat_t> right - which kinda makes sense
[16:14] <djsiegel1> Wed Jul 29, 10:14 AM
[16:14] <mat_t> ah
[16:14] <djsiegel1> I think we should go to 10:14 AM
[16:14] <djsiegel1> date is shown on hover and click
[16:15] <mat_t> I'd go for Wed 10:40 AM
[16:15] <mat_t> although I wouldn't just make that call like that
[16:15] <djsiegel1> hmm, that might be more work
[16:15] <djsiegel1> how do we get this discussion moving somewhere?
[16:16] <djsiegel1> would be a nice change for karmic
[16:16] <djsiegel1> we have a really nice panel going
[16:16] <beuno> djsiegel1, file a bug?  :)
[16:16] <mat_t> djsiegel1: papercut?
[16:16] <djsiegel1> but who makes a decision like this? design team?
[16:17] <djsiegel1> I have a feeling everyone will overrule everyone else
[16:17] <djsiegel1> "ubuntu-devs say date is useful for ubuntu members"
[16:17] <djsiegel1> something like that
[16:17] <mat_t> well, I'm sure date *is* useful for many people
[16:18] <djsiegel1> "how can I encrypt my files if I can't seed my random number generator with the date? I use a tiling window manager to I can't mouse over to the date applet"
[16:18] <mat_t> question is, how many
[16:18] <djsiegel1> I am sure it's useful for all
[16:18] <djsiegel1> but does it belong in the panel?
[16:18] <djsiegel1> when it's available in a toolip and on click
[16:18] <beuno> it has to be an argument for un-cluttering the UI
[16:18] <mat_t> yeah, I'd keep the panel simple, too
[16:18] <djsiegel1> ok, will papercut it
[16:25] <mac_v> djsiegel1: if you just keep the default as *time only* and , the users can choose if they want to add the date/weather , then there wont be a problem , its only if the date feature is removed as a whole there might be a problem
[16:34] <djsiegel1> mac_v mat_t beuno https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/406438
[16:35] <beuno> djsiegel1, great
[16:36] <beuno> maybe "also affects: the clock applet"
[16:36] <beuno> don't know what package that is in
[16:40] <djsiegel1> would be good to show the day and date at GDM
[16:40] <djsiegel1> so you can see it before you log in
[16:40] <djsiegel1> but you should not have to look at it all day
[16:43] <ScottK> djsiegel1: Don't assume people log in every day.
[16:43] <djsiegel1> right
[16:50] <beuno> I don't
[19:59] <MDC2> is this a good place to ask gui related issues?
[21:19] <MDC2> http://www.mejlamej.nu/greyminimized.png - the minimized windows is grey instead of black and inside brackets. Comments?
[21:30] <mac_v> MDC2: nice visual hint , but doing it the other way around is better i suppose...
[21:30] <mac_v> ah... scratch that... 
[21:31] <MDC2> mac_v, :-)
[21:31] <MDC2> mac_v, better than brackets?
[21:31] <mac_v> MDC2: I like the ideal you are going for, but greying it out doesnt seems right
[21:32] <mac_v> seem*
[21:33] <MDC2> mac_v, atm the icon is greyed out, I thought it could be good if the text look the same.. have any other idea?
[21:33] <mac_v> WHy not bold/italicize the window list for minimized ones , and use regular font for the open windows?
[21:34] <MDC2> from http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91655 - they don't won't italic because it's hard to read..
[21:34] <mac_v> greying it out makes it harder to read, and different themes use different panel shades , so grey is not optimal
[21:34] <MDC2> I'm not sure how to visualize minimized/rolled up/maxmimzed..
[21:35] <MDC2> yep, but brackets isn't good either..
[21:36] <mac_v> yup ...... i'm going through the bugzilla link to see if there are any better ideas
[21:36] <MDC2> :-)
[21:42] <mac_v> MDC2: can the minimized windows buttons be done differently? thicker border ? 
[21:42] <mac_v> or something of the sort?
[21:43] <MDC2> mac_v, i'll check the code if its an easy change
[21:44] <MDC2> mac_v, seems I can use any of these styles; http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-Standard-Enumerations.html#GtkReliefStyle
[21:45] <MDC2> so, no :-)
[21:45] <MDC2> mac_v, or maybe just do them flat?
[21:46] <mac_v> hehe ... just what i was typing ;p
[21:46] <MDC2> rolled up?
[21:47] <mac_v> MDC2: make them flat with a border, should give the hint , rolled up is the same as minimized , the window get unmapped
[21:48] <MDC2> I'll hack something up..
[21:48] <mac_v> great... 
[21:48] <mac_v> MDC2: have the upstream devs accepted the toolbar editor?
[21:49] <MDC2> could be a problem later;
[21:49] <MDC2>  * Sets the relief type of the buttons in @tasklist to @relief. The main use of
[21:49] <MDC2>  * this function is proper integration of #WnckTasklist in panels with
[21:49] <MDC2>  * non-system backgrounds.
[21:50] <MDC2> mac_v, I'm still "working" on the toolbar editor - but I'm sucky at both c and gtk so things go slowly. I've got problem with the signals. Other than that I can move the buttons/widgets around and creating toolbars. Need to save some stuff to gconf and edit some popup menus and then send it in... 
[21:51] <mac_v> nice... 
[21:52] <MDC2> wanna help? :-)
[21:53] <mac_v> what else remains? maybe i could give it a shot... 
[21:54] <MDC2> well, first of all I'm not sure I've done things correctly. I've removed the singleton widgets (location, search bar, navigation bar) and creates them inside there resp action instead - is that the right approch?
[21:55] <MDC2> you could also help with setting up a git repo so more people can look at it :-)
[21:55] <mac_v> repo stuff I'm not familiar with... 
[21:56] <MDC2> want a diff?
[21:56] <MDC2> :-)
[21:57] <mac_v> have you discussed with upstream the way you have done? removing the widgets?
[21:57] <MDC2> seems like everyone's at vacation or something - they are hard to get in touch with...
[21:58] <MDC2> so I thought I complete it this path and change it when I get feedback
[22:05]  * mac_v hopes upstream accepts what MDC2 has done
[22:05] <MDC2> haha, they definitly wont - but I can change the code :)
[22:06] <MDC2> compiling flat minimized windows now.. will be interesting..
[22:07] <MDC2> hmm.. well.. flat is .. flat. It really needs a border as you said.. :-)
[22:10] <MDC2> mac_v, just flat with no border looks like this : http://www.mejlamej.nu/flat2.png
[22:10] <mac_v> hehe... needs a border
[22:16] <MDC2> is there an easier way to set a border then to put it in a black container and set a border width to 1px?
[22:17] <MDC2> mac_v, it probably wont have rounded border then.... 
[22:18] <MDC2> i'll see what upstream says. I'll have to do some nautilus (non-toolbar) hacking. If you'd like you could use my screenshot and do some mockup of a thin border..
[23:21] <Cube> hey