[00:14] mpt: djsiegel: ping? [00:46] djsiegel1: ping? [00:47] hey alexkay [00:47] what's up? [00:48] hey! lamalex said that you could help, at banshee we have a design problem... [00:48] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559013 [00:50] we are not sure the last patch is the best way to handle it.... you can see the screen-shot in comment #6 [00:50] alexkay: i'd be prone to reduce this to a simple "import music" thatd open a FolderChooserDialog [00:51] alexkay: I don't see any screenshots [00:51] SiDi: it's not only from folders... we have importers from other media players (amarok, rhymebox, itunes) [00:51] djsiegel1: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=136541 [00:51] alexkay: that wasnt in 1.4.3, right ? [00:52] SiDi: no, it's recent [00:52] okey [00:52] cause 1.4.3 offers to import home/any folder/any files/"videos from your photo folder" [00:52] some stuff only exists in the form of patches [00:52] Which can easily be turned into one single thing :) [00:53] SiDi: the idea is that we have many importers, each of them with their unique import options [00:53] the last patch adds the list of options under the comobobox listing the importers [00:53] alexkay: first of all, you guys repeat the window title bar in the window [00:54] I would change the text to "Choose an import source and click 'Import'" [00:54] and change the button to "Import" [00:54] you are calling them "import sources" and "media sources" [00:55] Maybe "Choose a source to import from:" and the import button could say "Next" ? [00:56] alexkay: I am a bit confused because I don't see how the import feature works with the other sources [00:56] I think you might be best splitting these out [00:56] have File > Import Media from Folder [00:56] that goes directly to a GtkFileChooser [00:57] then have another entry in the File menu, File > Import from... > { Amarok, Mass Storage Device, Network } whatever [00:57] you could get rid of this dialog entirely [00:57] djsiegel1: the problem is the the folder importer will get options as well, so a simple file chooser won't work [00:57] the folder importer will get options? [00:57] present the options after the person chooses the files/folders to import [00:58] we have a pending patch to import ratings, playcounts etc... these will be options during import [00:58] 99% of the time, users are going to import files/folders [00:58] it might be nice to have a dedicated menu item, Import Media from Folder, that does not present the user with the other importers [00:59] you could let the user pick the folder, then present the options [00:59] 1. File > Import Media from Folder [00:59] 2. GtkFileChooser to pick folder(s) [00:59] 3. Import confirmation dialog with options [01:00] imo you could hold this all in "import media from folder" and "import from other players" [01:00] and you put your fancy stuff with the dialog in the second option [01:00] because what you have right now is a bit of overkill when one just wants to import his music folder [01:00] right [01:00] confirmation dialog could show the folder path that is going to be imported from, the number/size of the files, and there you could have your options (ignore duplicates, import ratings), and cancel and Import buttons [01:01] would be a lot simpler for users who just want to find a folder and import their files [01:01] we also allow to import individual files, should it be a separate menu item as well? [01:01] alexkay: no, users don't make that distinction [01:02] but its hard to make a file/folder chooser dialog, djsiegel1 [01:02] files and folders are "my music stuff" [01:02] but the GtkFileChooser works either on files or on folders [01:02] though i dont see the use of file importing, alexkay [01:02] yes, it does [01:02] some people want to import the mp3 they just downloaded to their desktop [01:02] and how long will the files stay on the desktop ? [01:03] that's not our problem [01:03] for most users, indefinitely :) [01:03] I mean, it is our problem, but it's not the problem we are solving now [01:03] people do import individual song files [01:03] and, people are importing media [01:03] they might import that 2gb HD file they just got off a torrent [01:04] exactly [01:05] so, how would it look like then? two menu items for files/folders is bad... and the file chooser cannot select files and folders at the same time [01:05] are you sure? [01:05] alexkay: I think it can [01:05] to be honest, no :) [01:05] I am pretty sure it can [01:06] I am not certain though [01:06] it can with gtk tweaking [01:06] but it wouldnt be extra at all [01:06] I am pretty sure GtkFilechooser just picks a set of paths [01:06] you can set options telling it which paths to filter out by extension [01:06] on file chosing dialogs, using the open button when selecting a folder opens it in the chooser, while it'll chose it and end the dialog in a folder chooser [01:06] ewww [01:08] just checked, the dialog takes the action parameter, which is either 'open' or 'select folder' [01:08] so, it cannot do both [01:11] djsiegel1: as for the other importers, do you suggest a sub menu item for each of them, e.g. iTunes, amarok, rhythbox, etc? [01:11] opening a dialog with options specific to the importer? [01:12] mrooney: you can use the translators comments, too ;) [01:12] alexkay: yes [01:12] alexkay: I suggest that [01:14] mrooney: refferring to the old bug report you commented a few mins ago [01:14] ok guys, thanks for your suggestions! [01:14] SiDi: I never figured out how to get those into Rosetta :[ [01:14] mrooney: 2 hours ago actually haha :D [01:14] mrooney: just add a #comment the line just above the string [01:14] But I think you have to pass xgettext some command when generating the templates === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [12:03] * MacSlow -> lunch === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === JamalFanaian|afk is now known as JamalFanaian [14:21] hi! any suggestion of stock icon to use instead of gtk-dialog-warning inside the entry as in this screenshot http://www.mejlamej.nu/n-w.png [14:21] the icon will be displayed when the path is local and does not exists [14:22] http://www.mejlamej.nu/nautilus-entry.png - an example using the stop icon.. [14:24] MDC2, you could make the font red [14:25] beuno, hmm, yeah... I'll discuss this with david s (his idea actually) [14:37] MDC2: http://imagebin.ca/img/3QXJrHkG.png [14:38] i dont know if it works for everyone but in europe this symbol is used to say a path/road is forbidden [14:38] so its quite explicit that you *cant go there*, for europeans at least, with this icon [14:40] yeah, I think that icon is used in other places as well [14:40] MDC2, if you want to be super awesome [14:40] you could highlight which part of the path is wrong [14:41] all of it, or the last part, etc [14:41] beuno: it looks logical to me that its somewhere in the end ;) [14:45] MDC2: this is for the pop-up location? [14:45] location bar [14:47] MDC2: gtk-dialog-error is more logical i suppose [14:47] or event status/error icon , [15:00] MacSlow: hi... the notification icons in karmic , are now more pixelated , does it have to be changed in notify-osd or in the theme? [15:01] mac_v, they should not [15:01] and without a screenshot it's hard to say [15:01] MacSlow: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot.png [15:01] much depends on the set theme [15:01] MacSlow: kwwii insists its a notify-osd bug [15:02] what's wrong with that screenshot... it's super-crips [15:02] crisp [15:02] the volume icon bars are pixelated... wait i'll show the wireless [15:04] mac_v, yes this is the popup [15:05] mac_v, but the icon is supposed to be inside the entry, not in the dialog.. [15:06] MDC2: the "error" icon is for errors [15:06] beuno, djsiegel didn't like rred font color... [15:07] mac_v, yep, any suggestion of another icon to use? [15:07] MacSlow: kwwii http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot.png note the bars they merge [15:07] MDC2: what about a label under the entry, invisible unless path is invalid, then it could say "Location does not exist" [15:07] MDC2: you can use the "error" that is the icon label [15:08] MacSlow: kwwii the bars where smoother in Jaunty [15:08] mac_v, ehm... a side-by-side would have been better [15:08] ah :( now i have to boot into jaunty :( [15:09] mac_v, side-by-side (wireless + volume) for current notify-osd in karmic, same for jaunty [15:09] mav_c, djsiegel, so not use an icon at all? [15:09] mac_v, that's the best way to see any differences in relation to each different version [15:10] SiDi, what stock icon is it on the screenshot? gtk-stop? [15:10] wait i think i have backups [15:10] MDC2: that is the error icon ;p [15:10] in SiDi's [15:10] * SiDi doesnt know [15:10] MDC2: I still like using the icon [15:11] DanRabbit: ping [15:11] mac_v, isnt gtk-error part of standarrd stock? http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-Stock-Items.html [15:12] djsiegel, how about this: use a folder icon if it's found, network folder for remote folders, and folder with ? if unknown? [15:13] eh [15:13] MDC2: it is a standard but it is not in gnome icons or human.... check this one out /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/status/error.svg , [15:13] can I type a file there? [15:14] MacSlow: kwwii http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-3.png [15:14] volume icon... [15:16] mac_v, the new look is much more precise and crisper... thus not a regression at all compared to jaunty [15:16] mac_v, it's all still cairo and svg in case you wonder [15:16] MacSlow: you are right , the icons need adjustment , but kwwii feels its a notify-osd bug [15:17] mac_v, I don't think there's anything wrong with either the icons or notify-osd [15:18] odd that kwwii thinks icons are off in jaunty [15:18] its just me then ... http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-1.png dont the bars looks fudged? [15:18] wireless^ [15:19] mac_v, the top version (karmic) is certainly nicer to look at than the bottom one [15:19] note the first bar [15:19] i like it , but its *not* pixel aligned well, IMO [15:20] mac_v, that's impossible with the way the designers want notify-osd to render stuff [15:20] djsiegel, I don't think we can type a file, wich is kinda sad, it would be nice.. [15:20] mac_v, there's nothing kwwii could do about it [15:20] ah... well.. ;p [15:21] djsiegel, shall we go with the error icon as mac_v suggested? [15:21] notify-osd is designed and written in a way to be resolution in dependent... trying to inject certain pixel-alinged icons asks for more complexity and trouble than it's worth it [15:22] MacSlow: i understand that its not a notify-osd issue , i first talked to kwwii , he said it was your bug, hence discussed with you... i feel the icons need a bit of adjustment [15:23] mac_v, everybody has different screen-DPI, font-sizes set [15:23] mac_v, one can't anticipate this in a general fashion for icon-design [15:24] * MacSlow hopes the days of "pixel-counting" are over [15:24] hehe... me too. :) [15:26] kwwii: your thoughts? have you noticed any difference in these new screenshots? or are these fine as is? [15:26] MDC2: sounds reasonable, see what upstream thinks of the screenshot [15:26] MDC2: if you could use a nice theme on your desktop, it would be more convincing upstream [15:26] MDC2: you have an incredibly ugly desktop [15:26] all boxy [15:26] try Murrina Candido [15:27] MDC2: still facing gnome-settings-daemon crashes ? [15:30] hrm, the icons are at a fixed size, so they should always be sharp at that size [15:30] MacSlow: are the icons being scaled? that would not be the best idea, really [15:30] djsiegel, mac_v; its not my normal desktop - i could not stand such a ugly desktop. But the problem is when i use NX - the daemon crashes directly upon start [15:30] haven't got time to look in that.. [15:31] kwwii: the icons are pixelated with sans 10 settings too [15:31] djsiegel, i'll provide better screenshots for upstream (once I got a deb package i can install to one of my virtual machines) [15:32] kwwii, if course they are... they need to because of the in-bubble size-calculations done in EMs [15:32] MDC2: ah, it looked like something had crashed [15:32] kwwii, this is a fundamental design-feature of notify-osd (the specs of it and its implementation) [15:32] djsiegel, i also manage to fix the signal problem by setting _after to the signal inside eel. So if I enter an incorrect remote path i'll get back to the open location dialog with the same path [15:33] MDC2: awesome [15:33] kwwii, if you see a problem with that... take the fight to mat_t and mpt :) [15:33] its not optimal as its an extra popup, but its better than before, i'll see what upstream has to say once I polished the patch [15:34] MacSlow: wow, that totally breaks the icon theme idea though [15:35] kwwii, did you never see -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Inside%20the%20bubble [15:35] kwwii, that's been in place since jaunty [15:35] kwwii: bubble size is variable, so they have to scale [15:35] mat_t: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-1.png http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-3.png [15:35] MacSlow: well, it hasn't been my job to work on that, other than to make the icons...and at the time I was told to make them at 48x48 pixels [15:36] I honestly didn't look into the specifics of that page [15:36] kwwii: there's a massive difference in quality though between the svg preview in the system, and notify-osd rendering [15:36] kwwii, I don't really see any issue with them on any of my machines really [15:37] kwwii, mat_t: I'd say true resulution indepence comes at a cost... and for my (picky) eyes it more than acceptable [15:37] hm... I had better times at spelling english [15:37] I hadn't noticed any problems on my machines, but mac_v brought it up ;) [15:38] MacSlow: yes, it is acceptable [15:38] mat_t: note the icons are not sharp, they need a bit of adjustment for karmic [15:38] kwwii, from mac_v screenshots I honestly don't see any issues... just what I expect (and also see on my machines... netbook, laptop, desktop) [15:39] MacSlow: yes, mac_v's icons seem sharp [15:39] MacSlow: the curved bars being pixelated is normal , but the straight bars *should not* have pixelation , [15:40] the *icons* need a bit of a of pixel tweak [15:40] * MacSlow always welcomes solid patches (with proper and complete unit-tests) [15:40] mac_v: try previewing the same svg in the system preview, is there any difference? [15:41] mac_v: since they're scalable, there is no way of pixel-tweaking really. It's always going to be better at some sizes and worse at others [15:41] djsiegel, btw, should the icon appear in all location entries or just the popup? [15:42] what other location entries, for example? [15:42] the standard in-window bar [15:42] in the toolbar [15:43] the thing is this is a custom widget inside nautilus and it could be nice to have the same look and feel for the same control all over nautilus [15:43] mat_t: the problem arises for the wireless icons since they are not perfect rectangles , the have curved edges , this problem can be avoided if the bars had straight angles [15:44] and its tough to notice the difference in system preview , because of the transparency the have surrounding he icons [15:45] they* [15:45] mac_v: try putting them on grey background in inkscape [15:45] hehe... just did that... [15:46] mat_t: yup same problem , as the bubbles [15:46] brb [15:47] mat_t: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-notification-network-wireless-full.svg%20-%20Inkscape.png [15:48] mac_v: yeah, that's probably as good as it gets at that size [15:48] mat_t: could we use the bars as having straight angles? [15:49] this spoils the look of the bubbles [15:49] mac_v: not really... that would make them lose the uniqueness [15:49] arghhh... ;p [15:50] :) [15:51] mat_t: hello ! is there a reason why notify-osd doesnt ship all the notification-* icons at the moment ? [15:51] SiDi: no idea! [15:51] kwwii: MacSlow: ^ [15:52] MacSlow said "see this with the design team" [15:52] it lacks some audio icons, the new battery icons, and, i think, a lot of the extra wireless icons [15:52] well, then... kwwii? [15:52] yes I have noticed that, too [15:53] I think it's because the new packages are not patched to call the right icon [15:53] SiDi: you mean the new icons you sent me? [15:53] SiDi: which location? human/ or elsewhere [15:53] erm, was that you that sent them to me? [15:54] kwwii: these and many others [15:54] lol [15:54] since jaunty they have been lacking [15:54] kwwii: are you not running Karmic? [15:54] when i tested humanity, audio notifications were gone because there were no volume icons ;) [15:55] notify-osd should ship each notification-* icon in the package as backup [15:55] at the moment we relay on human being there :/ [15:55] SiDi: I am just updating the human theme today [15:55] SiDi: also, a bug needs to be made to get the new names into code [15:55] aw [15:55] SiDi: ahhh, you are now talking about the icons in the package itself [15:55] there is one somewhere already :P [15:56] SiDi: anyone is free to work on those [15:56] kwwii: im talking about these since the beginning xD [15:56] SiDi: hrm? are you talking about the human icons or the ones in the package itself? [15:56] ie the plain gnome icons? [15:57] * SiDi means : the notify-osd package doesn't have the whole scope of notification-* icons in use by apps [15:57] Which results in lacking icons when not using Human [15:57] kwwii: yes, there's just no icons at all in most bubbles [15:57] Sorry, i'm not very clear [15:58] kwwii: in some, not most [15:58] http://pastebin.com/m3c64d212 kwwii [15:58] in Karmic the notify-osd/ has only gnome icons! :? [15:59] http://pastebin.com/mcf6c15c [15:59] SiDi: the ones in the package are free for anyone to work on [15:59] and yeh, it has some damn tango-ish icons instead of the sexy Human ones :p [16:00] if the human icons are not being shown, that is another problem [16:00] kwwii: okies [16:00] SiDi: those are gnome icons [16:00] SiDi: right, the ones in the package itself are supposed to be gnome icons [16:00] whereas the ones in the human set are the nice ones ;) [16:00] okey :P [16:00] it means i have to make a PACKAGE with separate human notification icons >_> [16:00] for my own use * :P [16:01] i think the problem with humanity is because it doesnt have Human as the fallback , but rather gnome as the fallback [16:01] ok, as for the notify-osd ones, when you say free to work on, you mean free to package existing gnome icons or free to design these missing icons ? :/ [16:01] DanRabbit: ^ is it so? [16:03] mat_t, beuno, our clock applet shows the weekday and date in its tooltip, and of course on click -- can we remove the day and date from the panel and just show the time? [16:09] djsiegel1, for some reason, I feel safer seing the date [16:09] has the tooltip been fixed in karmic? [16:09] in jaunty the tooltip is bogus [16:09] "fixed"? [16:09] seems fine to me in karmic [16:09] keep in mind you will probably feel "unsafe" whenever an interface fixture is removed [16:10] in jaunty it says "Click to view your appointments and tasks" [16:10] in Karmic is says the date [16:10] great [16:10] I'm trying to think how I'd feel [16:10] I guess I only need to know the date once a day [16:10] :) [16:11] yeah, it might be nice to have weather and time because they change during the day [16:11] agreed [16:14] djsiegel1: is date and weather the default now? [16:14] djsiegel1: I was under the impression they are opt-in [16:14] yes, but weather only shows if you set your location [16:14] default is [16:14] right - which kinda makes sense [16:14] Wed Jul 29, 10:14 AM [16:14] ah [16:14] I think we should go to 10:14 AM [16:14] date is shown on hover and click [16:15] I'd go for Wed 10:40 AM [16:15] although I wouldn't just make that call like that [16:15] hmm, that might be more work [16:15] how do we get this discussion moving somewhere? [16:16] would be a nice change for karmic [16:16] we have a really nice panel going [16:16] djsiegel1, file a bug? :) [16:16] djsiegel1: papercut? [16:16] but who makes a decision like this? design team? [16:17] I have a feeling everyone will overrule everyone else [16:17] "ubuntu-devs say date is useful for ubuntu members" [16:17] something like that [16:17] well, I'm sure date *is* useful for many people [16:18] "how can I encrypt my files if I can't seed my random number generator with the date? I use a tiling window manager to I can't mouse over to the date applet" [16:18] question is, how many [16:18] I am sure it's useful for all [16:18] but does it belong in the panel? [16:18] when it's available in a toolip and on click [16:18] it has to be an argument for un-cluttering the UI [16:18] yeah, I'd keep the panel simple, too [16:18] ok, will papercut it [16:25] djsiegel1: if you just keep the default as *time only* and , the users can choose if they want to add the date/weather , then there wont be a problem , its only if the date feature is removed as a whole there might be a problem [16:34] mac_v mat_t beuno https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/406438 [16:35] djsiegel1, great [16:36] maybe "also affects: the clock applet" [16:36] don't know what package that is in [16:40] would be good to show the day and date at GDM [16:40] so you can see it before you log in [16:40] but you should not have to look at it all day [16:43] djsiegel1: Don't assume people log in every day. [16:43] right [16:50] I don't === SiDi_ is now known as SiDi === mrooney is now known as mrooney|w === jono_ is now known as jono [19:59] is this a good place to ask gui related issues? [21:19] http://www.mejlamej.nu/greyminimized.png - the minimized windows is grey instead of black and inside brackets. Comments? [21:30] MDC2: nice visual hint , but doing it the other way around is better i suppose... [21:30] ah... scratch that... [21:31] mac_v, :-) [21:31] mac_v, better than brackets? [21:31] MDC2: I like the ideal you are going for, but greying it out doesnt seems right [21:32] seem* [21:33] mac_v, atm the icon is greyed out, I thought it could be good if the text look the same.. have any other idea? [21:33] WHy not bold/italicize the window list for minimized ones , and use regular font for the open windows? [21:34] from http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91655 - they don't won't italic because it's hard to read.. [21:34] greying it out makes it harder to read, and different themes use different panel shades , so grey is not optimal [21:34] I'm not sure how to visualize minimized/rolled up/maxmimzed.. [21:35] yep, but brackets isn't good either.. [21:36] yup ...... i'm going through the bugzilla link to see if there are any better ideas [21:36] :-) [21:42] MDC2: can the minimized windows buttons be done differently? thicker border ? [21:42] or something of the sort? [21:43] mac_v, i'll check the code if its an easy change [21:44] mac_v, seems I can use any of these styles; http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-Standard-Enumerations.html#GtkReliefStyle [21:45] so, no :-) [21:45] mac_v, or maybe just do them flat? [21:46] hehe ... just what i was typing ;p [21:46] rolled up? [21:47] MDC2: make them flat with a border, should give the hint , rolled up is the same as minimized , the window get unmapped [21:48] I'll hack something up.. [21:48] great... [21:48] MDC2: have the upstream devs accepted the toolbar editor? [21:49] could be a problem later; [21:49] * Sets the relief type of the buttons in @tasklist to @relief. The main use of [21:49] * this function is proper integration of #WnckTasklist in panels with [21:49] * non-system backgrounds. [21:50] mac_v, I'm still "working" on the toolbar editor - but I'm sucky at both c and gtk so things go slowly. I've got problem with the signals. Other than that I can move the buttons/widgets around and creating toolbars. Need to save some stuff to gconf and edit some popup menus and then send it in... [21:51] nice... [21:52] wanna help? :-) [21:53] what else remains? maybe i could give it a shot... [21:54] well, first of all I'm not sure I've done things correctly. I've removed the singleton widgets (location, search bar, navigation bar) and creates them inside there resp action instead - is that the right approch? [21:55] you could also help with setting up a git repo so more people can look at it :-) [21:55] repo stuff I'm not familiar with... [21:56] want a diff? [21:56] :-) === JamalFanaian is now known as JamalFanaian|afk [21:57] have you discussed with upstream the way you have done? removing the widgets? [21:57] seems like everyone's at vacation or something - they are hard to get in touch with... [21:58] so I thought I complete it this path and change it when I get feedback [22:05] * mac_v hopes upstream accepts what MDC2 has done [22:05] haha, they definitly wont - but I can change the code :) [22:06] compiling flat minimized windows now.. will be interesting.. [22:07] hmm.. well.. flat is .. flat. It really needs a border as you said.. :-) [22:10] mac_v, just flat with no border looks like this : http://www.mejlamej.nu/flat2.png [22:10] hehe... needs a border [22:16] is there an easier way to set a border then to put it in a black container and set a border width to 1px? [22:17] mac_v, it probably wont have rounded border then.... [22:18] i'll see what upstream says. I'll have to do some nautilus (non-toolbar) hacking. If you'd like you could use my screenshot and do some mockup of a thin border.. [23:21] hey