/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/07/29/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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pamcjwatson: Is there a gfxboot language reference somewhere (not just the vocabulary but more general like stack handling,...)? I am failing miserably trying to walk through arrays (http://pastebin.com/m193ef855)05:51
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pittiGood morning07:40
geserHi pitti07:41
pittihey geser, wie gehts?07:44
geserfine07:44
geserand you?07:45
pittigreat, enjoyed some days off07:45
StevenKHey pitti!07:57
StevenKpitti: It appears that the UNR and Ubuntu livefses fail to build due to: system-config-printer-udev: Conflicts: hal-cups-utils but 0.6.19+git20090217-0ubuntu7 is to be installed07:58
StevenKpitti: Should hal-cups-utils just get unseeded in both cases?07:58
pittiStevenK: yes, it should; it's obsolete07:59
StevenKpitti: Okay, shall I fix both seeds and both meta packages?07:59
pittiStevenK: I'm just committing the ubuntu change08:00
StevenKpitti: You'll fiddle ubuntu-meta, or shall I?08:03
pittiStevenK: please go ahead while you are at it08:03
maxbI'm feeling a bit snubbed by the fast closure of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/406070. Isn't a feature present in Jaunty being lost from Karmic a valid regression bug worth tracking, regardless of whether it's upstream's fault?08:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 406070 in gnome-control-center "gnome-sound-properties removed without adequate replacement" [Undecided,Invalid]08:21
pittimbiebl: FYI, I committed 20_cpufreq_warning_message_fix.patch upstream, so we are back to two distro specific and easy patches in hal08:22
pittimbiebl: do you want me to commit the hal smartdimmer support that we have in Ubuntu to the debian experimental branch?08:24
pittimbiebl: I won't commit it for now, it's a bit dubious08:25
pittimbiebl: oh, and it's obsolete in the new DK world anyway08:36
seb128maxb, the bug is not constructive, you should rather open request to add features to the new capplet08:45
maxbHrm. Tracking a feature regression in the distro is not useful?08:47
maxbThe features don't really belong in an applet calling itself the "Volume Control" anyway08:48
seb128maxb, what feature?08:49
seb128maxb, opening bugs about "the new capplet version sucks" is of no use no08:50
seb128maxb, you should open a bug about "gnome-volume-control should let you selection <option you need>"08:50
seb128selection -> select08:50
maxbI didn't say "it sucks", I said "removed without adequate replacement"08:51
maxbfurthermore, I stated in the bug why adding features to gnome-volume-control didn't make sense08:52
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seb128maxb, still not a constructive way to approch things, we don't write this code08:52
seb128well try being constructive there08:52
seb128suggest what we should do knowing that we will not roll back to distro patch deprecated code08:52
maxbLeaving aside all other matters, isn't it important to track the fact that we've removed a user-visible feature and not supplied any replacement?08:54
maxbEspecially when the feature is something Windows has had since 95? 3.1?08:54
seb128maxb, I stop this discussion there I'm not interested in non constructive discussion there, we already have a collection of bugs about people like the old version better for random reasons08:55
maxbRemoval of a concrete features is not a "random reason"08:56
maxb* feature08:56
seb128you can select sound theme in the new interface08:57
maxbYou can coarsely choose between "Ubuntu" and "No sounds", yes08:57
maxbthat falls a long way short of selecting individual sounds for events08:58
seb128well open a bug about "new capplet should you set custom sounds for events"08:58
maxband also it provides no way to select visual alert rather than audible, as the old one did08:58
seb128maxb, bug #324700 is your request about sound events made in a constructive way and not with an unclear ranting title09:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 324700 in gnome-media "gnome-volume-control is missing system events sound adjustment" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32470009:01
maxbYour definition of ranting is considerably more sensitive than mine09:06
seb128maxb, sorry but your bug title suggest that we should not have changed to capplet without have some features there but the decision of rewritting is not ours09:07
seb128and we distro patched the previous codebase in jaunty to address those concerns09:07
seb128so better to suggest changes to make it adequate rather than complain about the switch not being adequate09:09
maxbOK, well, for my future reference, what _is_ the procedure when an upstream drops a feature without having firm plans to replace it?09:15
maxbI guess another example would be the gdm graphical configuration tool, which we luckily have someone interested in writing a new one09:16
seb128maxb, open a bug on the new component saying "the tools should have this feature"09:16
maxbBut in the general case, do we aim to track such feature-loss regressions in any way, or do we just aim to make upstream's current feature set work well?09:16
seb128maxb, not saying "you switched before it was ready" or "how could you do that" or "new version sucks"09:16
seb128maxb, depends of the feature, I'm not sure sound events ever worked correctly under GNOME and they are not a stopper09:17
seb128maxb, ie they don't prevent any work to get done, don't destroy any data, etc09:17
seb128we don't aim to replace every corner case option or at least don't consider that has a stopper09:18
seb128as09:18
hilefor people who care about the sound themes the new capplet is of course a step backwards. myself, I only care about the 'disable all event sounds and themes' buttons09:19
hilemaybe this is some evil plan for 'sound theme feature pack' sales :)09:21
dpmpitti: may we borrow you for a second on #kubuntu-devel for a question on translations (Riddell tells us that you also initially set up the kde i18n packaging infrastructure)10:16
pittidpm: joined10:21
dpmthanks! :)10:21
sebnerpitti: uploaded lyx. thanks for you help10:22
PecisDarbshi people, is there any plans to address mobile broadband modem issue with usb_modeswitch? This utility isn't in repos even.10:23
pittisebner: just saw it, thanks for sorting this out10:23
sebnerpitti: well, my duty since I acked the sync :)10:24
sebnerpitti: really fixing it during archive-reorg?10:25
pittisebner: not really, I think10:26
pittiwe still don't want to officially "bless" lyx with support, do we?10:26
sebnerpitti: heh, well sooner or later ...10:27
sebnerit's the main -> universe problem10:27
pittiwell, it's not a technical bug in any way, we specifically don't want to support each and every package in the universe10:28
sebnerpitti: right, so what the long-term solution do you have in mind?10:31
pittisebner: keep a separate source, or fix the two packages in main which pull it in to depend on an alternative10:34
pittior drop to suggests10:34
ttxpitti: about the Eucalyptus MIR process, I've started writing up MIR reports for a first set, see bug 405715. Please let me know if the way it's presented, the level of details etc. is OK and I should continue this way. For example, let me know if I should push reports to a wikipage instead.10:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 405715 in qdox "Main Inclusion Report (Eucalyptus dependencies set 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40571510:34
tseliotpitti: what would be the best way to add a hal quirk? A separate package or adding it to hal would be better?10:34
pittittx: looks okay; please note that it's enough to mention dependencies which are not in main10:35
pittitseliot: what kind of quirk?10:35
ttxpitti: ok thx10:35
tseliotpitti: for suspend/resume (for an OEM project)10:35
pittitseliot: suspend quirks for models should go into hal-info (I can commit them upstream)10:36
tseliotpitti: ok, thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know :-)10:37
pittitseliot: send it to hal@lists.fd.o or to me, or to a bug report and sub me10:38
sebnerpitti: for karmic +1 I suppose?10:39
pittisebner: not particularly; it can happen whenever it's convenient10:39
sebnerheh, kk10:39
tseliotpitti: I can't do this yet as I can't disclose the vendor's identity but I'll do it ASAP10:39
pittioh10:40
pittitseliot: right, just send it once it's possible, and keep it as a private patch until then10:41
tseliotpitti: yes, the patch will live only in the OEM repos for now10:41
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tjaaltonpitti: wrote a MIR for audit, it's holding xorg-server back, bug 40622610:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 406226 in audit "promote audit to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40622610:45
pittiGuest82317: I still know who you are!!!10:46
tjaaltonprobably needs kees or someone to check it first10:46
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NCommanderpitti, I continue to retry to regain my lost ID10:46
pittitjaalton: right, tossed to kees10:47
tjaaltonpitti: thanks10:47
robbiewevand: welcome back to the world of the internets :)10:53
evandthanks!10:53
pittihey evand10:54
* evand was starting to get the shakes10:54
evandhi10:54
pittifeeling lonely? :-)10:54
highvoltagewelcome back to the webs evand10:54
evandhaha, indeed10:55
evandthanks highvoltage10:55
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unggnuhi all11:33
gnomefreak.win 1011:33
unggnuIs there a reason why the Firefox 3.5 package even in Karmic needs so many Gnome dependencies while the 3.0 not? There are probably many KDE users who want to install Firefox.11:34
unggnuAnd Firefox 3.5 from the homepage even works fine without all this dependcies. Could somebody please fix this?11:34
gnomefreakunggnu: not the pace for that question please join me in #ubuntu-mozillateam11:35
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Timmy2Talli am trying to play world of warcraft on ubuntu but after i have installed it it wants to update but when i get to the terms and conditions it will not let me click accept. help plz12:30
directhexTimmy2Tall, this is really the opposite of a "user support running wine" channel12:33
directhexYokoZar, what's the wine users' channel?12:33
YokoZardirecthex: #winehq12:34
directhexTimmy2Tall, ^^12:35
Timmy2TallHey man lol12:35
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maxbWhere, and after what duration of posting sensibly, may I apply for unmoderated posting on ubuntu-devel@ ?14:01
maxbIt's a bit awkward participating in a discussion when your responses don't hit the list for hours/days14:02
hyperairmaxb: i thought you were a MOTU. =O14:08
maxbone day :-)14:09
hyperairgo get UUC-ship first then!14:09
hyperairthat'll effectively allow you to post without moderation14:09
maxbI probably have (almost?) enough knowledge, what I lack is the skill at actually managing my time to get Ubuntu dev stuff done having been at work all day doing employee dev stuff14:11
keestjaalton: hah, funny, I was going to be writing the audit MIR since AppArmor needs it too now.  :P14:52
pittikees: so now you have the chance to "self" approve it :)14:53
keespitti: yup!  perfect.  :)14:53
keesit should be pretty trivial, actually.  I just hadn't made time for it yet -- had it on the security team's sprint todo list.  :P14:53
tjaaltonkees: heh, great :)14:54
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robbiewcjwatson: doko: evand: james_w: Keybuk: liw: mvo: slangasek: al-maisan: mterry: FYI - No Meeting15:31
liwrobbiew, ack15:32
james_wthanks15:32
mterryyup15:32
dokosiesta ...15:32
* robbiew sent email, but knows not everyone checks their's every 5min like he does :P15:32
al-maisanrobbiew: thanks for letting me know!15:32
maxbdoko: Hi, did you see my question about default-jdk-builddep yesterday?15:33
maxb< maxb> I'm trying to push a s/default-jdk-builddep/default-jdk/ change back to Debian and the maintainer is hesitant because no Debian Policy explains the purpose of these15:34
maxb< maxb> Can you provide an authoritative Debian citation for the correct usage of default-jdk vs. default-jdk-builddep?15:34
dokomaxb: no, there's none. the one from the ubuntu wiki looks ok however15:34
mvorobbiew: ok15:34
maxbOK. I've pointed the maintainer in question at your java-gcj-compat-dev builddep mass bug filing, if that's not good enough I shall refer him to this irclog15:36
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snadgetried #ubuntu, google.. can only find old info on 64bit sun java.. it appears to be broken, applets not initializing .. jnlp failing to launch .. i have other 64bit ubuntu machines that i stuffed around with and cant remember how i got it to work.. opinions?17:12
snadgei think it may have involved downloading it from sun and installing it manually17:12
ScottKNCommander: More powerpc fun: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dc-qt/0.2.0.alpha-4ubuntu2/+build/1139325/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-powerpc.dc-qt_0.2.0.alpha-4ubuntu2_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz17:12
snadgehas anyone suggested the support channel for ubuntu be broken up into two channels.. #ubuntu-n00b or #ubuntu-idontknowhowtousegoogle and #ubuntu17:14
snadgethe signal to noise ratio in there is ridiculous17:15
Picisnadge: There is a discussion about it currently on the Ubuntu IRC Council agenda as well as something ongoing on the ubuntu-irc mailing list.17:16
mathiazjames_w: when you submit a merge proposal and you subscribe a specific person, it seems that no notification are sent17:16
mathiazjames_w: ex: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/ubuntu/karmic/cim-schema/2.22.0-update/+merge/939717:16
mathiazjames_w: ttx didn't get notified by LP17:17
snadgeim only saying this because #ubuntu-devel is not a support channel.. i just thought someone knowledgeable on sun java on 64bit jaunty, would take pity on me and point me to something useful17:17
snadgeconsidering i have read the forums wikis.. the information is mostly outdated, and advocates manually installing it from sun.com17:17
ttxmathiaz: or maybe it got eaten by a spamfilter, but that would be by the canonical one :)17:17
Tronicsnadge: It would have to be #ubuntu and #ubuntu-longtimers or something like that.17:19
TronicNewbies always come to #ubuntu.17:19
PiciAnyway, a better place to discuss this would be in #ubuntu-irc, as -devel is really for development stuff17:20
ScottKTronic and snadge: This isn't the channel for Ubuntu IRC channel planning.17:20
snadgethanks.. duly noted17:21
james_wmathiaz: did you put ttx in the "reviewer" box?17:27
mathiazjames_w: yes17:28
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mbieblpitti: so your commits, thanks17:32
mbiebls/so/saw/17:34
mathiazjames_w: regarding pywbem rejection, should the license use of "either" be fixed before a new upload?17:37
mathiazjames_w: I've already corrected the other mistake (yacc.py is LGPL2 and not LGPL2+ in debian/copyright)17:37
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james_wmathiaz: I'm not sure17:54
james_wI'll ask around17:54
mathiazjames_w: ok - I've emailed the upstream authors to get a reponse from them.17:54
james_wthanks17:54
vikramHi guys17:56
james_wmathiaz: bug 40649217:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 406492 in launchpad-code "Reviewer not subscribed to merge proposals" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40649217:56
vikramHow do I use this chat client17:56
vikramplease help17:56
alonswartzquestion for mdz , mvo and anyone else knowledgable about apt pinning. I filed a bug on LP a while back and recently it manifested itself in a bad way in one of our systems. I was hoping someone could take a look http://bit.ly/10N2Ub18:01
james_wmathiaz: upload and I'll accept18:18
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mathiazjames_w: new version of pywbem uploaded18:33
james_wthanks18:34
maxbalonswartz: bizarre, must be a bug deep in the guts of apr18:35
maxb* apt18:35
alonswartzmaxb: yeah, i know - very weird. What would be the best way to get this confirmed and on its way to being solved?18:37
maxbWell, confirming it is easy. (I just did). Solving it requires someone to actually dig deep into the apt sourcecode.18:38
maxbYou might like to upstream it to debian18:39
alonswartzmaxb: what version of apt are you using?18:39
maxbI'm on karmic18:39
maxb!info apt18:40
ubottuapt (source: apt): Advanced front-end for dpkg. In component main, is important. Version 0.7.20.2ubuntu6 (jaunty), package size 1620 kB, installed size 5232 kB18:40
alonswartzmaxb: just saw you updated the bug report, thanks!18:40
maxb!info apt karmic18:40
ubottuapt (source: apt): Advanced front-end for dpkg. In component main, is important. Version 0.7.21ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 1623 kB, installed size 5196 kB18:40
maxbWell that's interesting. apt-get may want to downgrade, but aptitude doesn't18:41
alonswartzmaxb: the plot thickens...18:43
maxbNot particularly, apt-get and aptitude don't share 100% of the package management code18:44
alonswartzI suppose that might help in narrowing it down (I'm not familiar with the apt code)18:46
james_wchrisccoulson: hey, did you speak to the Debian maintainer about libgdamm4.0?18:51
chrisccoulsonjames_w - not yet. it's on my list of things to do18:52
james_wchrisccoulson: them not renaming in the same way, but I don't think it would be a killer would it?18:53
chrisccoulsonthey should rename it in the same way shouldn't they?18:55
james_wI assume so18:55
chrisccoulsoni can contact the debian maintainer still. i only started working on updating that last night because another update i'm doing needs it18:56
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mathiazjames_w: could you bump up the priority of sblim-cmpi-base pkg import?19:13
james_wdone19:14
mathiazjames_w: thank you :)19:15
sroeckerhi, any jockey experts around?19:31
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mathiazUsing cdbs, how can I rename usr/share/sblim-cmpi-base/provider-regiser.sh (as installed by upstream) to usr/bin/cmpi-provider-register (as I want it in the final debian package)?20:53
ebroderYou have to add something to the debian/rules file20:54
ebroderI usually use binary-install/PACKAGE_NAME::, I think20:55
ebroderSo do something like...20:55
ebroderbinary-install/PACKAGE::20:55
ebroder        mv $(DEB_DESTDIR)/usr/share/sblim-cmpi-base/provider-regiser.sh $(DEB_DESTDIR)/usr/bin/cmpi-provider-register20:56
mathiazebroder: awesome - thanks! I use install/PACKAGE instead of binary-install21:16
mathiazebroder: it worked out well in the end :)21:17
ebroderinstall should be fine - just be sure to put it after you include your cdbs classes21:17
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kirklanddoes anyone know why python-pysqlite2 might have dropped from main to universe?22:05
kirklandlooks like landscape-common is depending on it now, which would necessitate bringing it back into main22:05
kirklandi'm wondering if i need an MIR to do this22:05
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ScottKkirkland: Generally if it was in Main before you don't need a full MIR.22:34
kirklandScottK: cool22:34
ScottKkirkland: Is there a *pysqlite3 in Main?22:34
ScottKThere might be some resistance to supporting multiple versions.22:34
mathiazScottK: I don't think there is a pysqlite322:35
kirklandpython-sqlite - python interface to SQLite 222:35
ScottKOK.22:35
kirklandpython-pysqlite2 - Python interface to SQLite 322:35
* kirkland finds those descriptions confusing :-)22:35
kirklandboth in universe22:35
ebroderkirkland: SQLite 3 support is built-in to Python >=2.5, isn't it?22:35
mathiazScottK: now that sqlite3 is in the standard library pysqlite doesn't need to exist anymore.22:35
ScottKebroder: I think that's right.22:36
TheMuso/c/c23:43
kirklandsiretart: ping23:54
kirklandsiretart: would you please merge byobu-2.23 into Debian when you get a chance?23:54
ebroderIs there a relatively easy way to figure out how the debian-installer does a particular step? Say, installing grub?23:57
ebroderI guess I go hunting for udebs?23:59

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