[00:00] <albdum> any ideas why that is happening ? already tried removing dmraid and from gparted at the one of the 2 disk create partition tables again (ms-dos) and create partition ntfs again
[00:02] <albdum> jmedina are you there ? :)
[00:03] <albdum> any1 else might can help with this ?
[00:05] <infinity> albdum: I suspect you answered your own question.  Didn't you say sdc1 and sdd1 were previously raid members?
[00:06] <albdum> infinity: yeah but before i install server i deleted the raid set...
[00:06] <albdum> and format the one of them again
[00:06] <infinity> albdum: If that was NT's software RAID, they're "dynamic disks", in NT parlance, and they can only ever act as the raid members they always were, unless you repartition and reformat them.
[00:07] <albdum> what i did: hardware raid ->delete then 1 of them -> format,create partition tables msdos and then create partition ntfs
[00:07] <albdum> shouldn't that work ?
[00:08] <infinity> Maybe.  I wouldn't hold my breath. :P
[00:08] <albdum> also those 2 disk i can see them from any other os installed on the same pc
[00:08] <albdum> including ubuntu desktop
[00:08] <infinity> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=512 count=10
[00:08] <albdum> just in server edition it seems it can't mount them
[00:08] <infinity> That's always a nice way to slaughter a disk back to factory fresh.
[00:09] <infinity> Oh, that's more curious.  I walked in to this in the middle.
[00:09] <infinity> Desktop automounts them, I imagine?
[00:09] <albdum> i need the one of them sdc i guess to keep my files
[00:09] <albdum> i mount them click home--> then the disk
[00:10] <albdum> yeah the desktop mounts them when i click on it not on load
[00:10] <albdum> ing
[00:11] <albdum> maybe server edition missing a package or something and cause of that can't mount them ?
[00:11] <infinity> The kernel's pretty obviously not even seeing the partitions, as your dev/disk output shows.
[00:11] <albdum> yeah
[00:11] <infinity> Are you positive that desktop isn't seeing them through the magic of dmraid?
[00:11] <albdum> dmraid wasn't installed on desktop
[00:12] <albdum> and before 3 minutes i unistalled it from server too hoping that would do the charm but :(
[00:13] <albdum> albus@ubuntu-server:~$ sudo mount /dev/sdd1 /media/HardDisk3
[00:13] <albdum> mount: special device /dev/sdd1 does not exist
[00:13] <albdum> albus@ubuntu-server:~$ sudo mount /dev/sdd /media/HardDisk3
[00:13] <albdum> mount: unknown filesystem type 'isw_raid_member'
[00:13] <albdum> ---->>>>> these is annoying any ideas ? cause i am out of luck and disk space on the other 2
[00:14] <infinity> It really does sound like sdc and sdd are still software raid members to me.
[00:14] <infinity> The dm-uuid-DMRAID-isw.. stuff in /dev/disks points at that too.
[00:15] <albdum> maybe samba has anything to do with that ?
[00:15] <infinity> Not much I can tell you except "wipe the first few sectors of the drive and repartition"... But if you can see them from another OS, there might be somehting less drastic you can do.
[00:15] <infinity> Or, wipe sdd, create sdd1, copy everything from sdc1 to sdd1, then repeat on sdc.
[00:16] <infinity> Samba has nothing to do with it.
[00:16] <albdum> how can i do the last part exactly ? :)
[00:17] <infinity> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd bs=512 count=1024 (wipe hard, why not?)
[00:17] <infinity> fdisk /dev/sdd
[00:17] <infinity> Create giant partition.
[00:17] <infinity> Copy everything from sdc1 to sdd1, using whatever works for you.
[00:18] <infinity> Then do the above with s/sdd/sdc/
[00:18]  * infinity heads back to work.
[00:19] <albdum> thnx m8 :)
[00:35] <albdum> any1 can help me format a ntfs partition with server edition?
[00:42] <albdum>  Hello any1 might know how can i format a drive to ntfs using shell ?
[00:48] <marce_> Hello everyone, i need to execute a lynx and close it after it finish loading the website. Which flag should I need?
[01:31] <baffle> kirkland: Did you still need to play with a rackserver with S3?
[02:16] <Kira> Hmm, I'm pretty positive that there was a memory leak somewhere in my system. The memory usage % would steadily climb, though rather slowly, about 10% a month.
[02:17] <Kira> and that's while it's sitting there apparently doing nothing.
[02:17] <Kira> How shall I track the memory usage of my processes?
[02:19] <ball> Kira: top?
[02:30] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406093 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 (main) "MySQL limiting INT(64) to INT(32)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406093
[02:34] <Kira> ball: the trouble is, all of the memory usages shown in top are so minuscule.
[02:34] <Kira> I see lots of 0.0%
[02:52] <ball> Kira: launch top and then try pressing M (must be capital)
[02:54] <twb> Kira: take some memory out of your machine, then ;-)
[02:55] <twb> ball: huh.  I always use > and < to change column
[02:55] <ball> twb: No idea.  I'm not used to interacting with it.
[02:56] <ball> ...but I looked that up for Kira
[02:56] <twb> Righto
[02:56] <twb> You could also use Z to pick a different display format
[02:56]  * ball shrugs
[02:57] <twb> It lets you colour-code the different layouts which is nice if you have a bunch running at once.  FYI.
[02:57] <ball> twb: thankfully it's black & white on my screen.
[02:57] <twb> :-)
[03:16] <unixxx> Hey guys, anyone know whether I should be using /dev/md_d0 or /dev/md/d0 as the device for my RAID array?
[03:16] <unixxx> I can't find any real documentation on thisl
[03:17] <mattt> unixxx: you sure they don't map to the same thing?
[03:17] <unixxx> /dev/md_d0p* symlink to /dev/md/d0p*
[03:18] <unixxx> But /dev/md_d0 doesn't symlink to /dev/md/d0
[03:19] <unixxx> I've setup md_d0 as the device using mdadm --assemble but was wondering what the proper practice was.
[03:19] <mattt> unixxx: yeah, not 100% which is proper ... guessing to use /dev/md, but don't quote me on that :)
[03:20] <unixxx> Ok, cool, thanks.
[03:20] <unixxx> All I could gather was that maybe /dev/md was to eliminate some problems with udev
[03:21] <mattt> unixxx: do you have a /dev/md0?
[03:22] <unixxx> I did but it was removed when I upgraded from 8.10 to 9.04 last night.
[03:22] <unixxx> Then I noticed /dev/md_d0 and re-assembled my RAID array to that device, assuming it was the replacement.
[03:23] <mattt> unixxx: ah, cuz http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO.html only refers to /dev/md0 (at first glance) ... maybe it's out-dated
[03:23] <mattt> unixxx: i think i will withdraw from this conversation, since i know nothing about software raid :)
[03:24] <unixxx> matt, ok, thanks anyway.  It's working fine now, I just didn't want to pick the "legacy" device that would be removed again
[04:31] <rosa_> hello...somebody know about amavisd? is using 99% of the CPU...somebody know why could it happen?
[04:39] <albdum> rosa_ : amavisd is a mail virus scanner....
[04:40] <albdum> rosa_ : amavis is the name amavisd means the deamon
[04:43] <rosa_> yes, tahnks..i know that but i do not why is using since yesterday 99% of CPU?
[04:44] <albdum> There is a known issue with perl-Convert-UUlib that was recently triggered by
[04:44] <albdum> a mail on one of the ubuntu mailinglists. Which version of uulib do you use?
[04:46] <albdum> high cpu means that amavis can't finish a process i am guessing that you have spamassassin installed also ?
[04:49] <albdum> rosa_: if you are having problems with postfix also try rebuilding the amavis database or rebuild it anyway just to make sure i have to go i hope that works...
[04:49] <rosa_> yes, i have spamassasin
[04:49] <rosa_> and also i upgrade the last version fro perl
[04:50] <albdum> i suggest to check amavis database...
[04:50] <rosa_> how i can check the amavis data base, i mean how i can rebuild that?
[04:51] <ScottK> albdum: What known issue?  Please point me to the bug.
[04:51] <rosa_> can be this problem causes by a virus in the network?
[04:54] <rosa_> yes, please!
[06:16] <nnull> anyone recommend any good webmin alternatives?
[06:18] <ball> nnull: learning the command line ;-)
[06:18] <jtimberman> chef
[06:19] <jtimberman> (ruby-based configuration management system) :)
[06:20] <jtimberman> :)
[06:21] <ScottK> nnull: ebox tends to be somewhat favored here, but I've never used it.
[06:21] <ScottK> !ebox
[06:22] <nnull> cheers ScottK , i know the command line, but haveto use webmin from time to time as a dread, just looking for some alt's
[06:35] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406171 in net-snmp (main) "COUNTER64 broken in NetSNMP::agent" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406171
[06:43] <twb> ebox is what the Ubuntu manual talks about
[06:43] <twb> I had a quick look at it, and it seems to be about as horrible as all the others.
[06:45] <nnull> lol yeah im about to try it
[07:00] <Jeeves_> Hi there
[07:00] <Jeeves_> ANy Bind maintainers around here? :)
[07:01]  * ball hides
[07:05] <Jeeves_> https://www.isc.org/node/474
[07:05] <Jeeves_> Any clue when a security update will be there?
[07:09] <kees> Jeeves_: should be out now
[07:18] <Jeeves_> cool
[07:18] <Jeeves_> thanks
[07:38] <_ruben> no mail on -security-announce yet :P
[07:44] <kees> _ruben: sure there is!  ;)  USNs sometimes lag archive publication a little.
[07:45] <cef> memtest86+ problem: is the version of memtest86+ that gets installed by default the same as the one in the memtest86+ package? I get an error on an amd64 box when I try and run the default one via grub.
[07:45] <cef> (using 9.04 server btw)
[07:50] <cef> never mind. helps if I look at the output from apt/dpkg in the host, and not one of the vm's. :P
[07:59] <_ruben> hey .. got mail from sec-announce :)
[08:01] <nnull> *You've got mail!*
[08:02] <_ruben> lets sync local mirror prior to (trying to) updating my dns servers
[08:02] <cef> heh.. I'm building new vm's to replace some of our machines.. one of these days they'll get into production.. till then, all I seem to do is upgrade the packages to fix security vuln's
[08:04] <cef> this morning it was the kernel, now it's bind..  fun fun fun
[08:08] <mattt> cef: welcome to system administration!
[08:18] <cef> mattt: I've been doing it since '96.. I'm quite used to it.. it's just very annoying at the moment
[09:07] <jtimberman> better than having a once a month patch day.
[09:08] <cef> true true
[09:56] <rosa_> hi...hi got this error in samba... nsswitch/winbindd_util.c:trustdom_recv(229)
[09:56] <rosa_> somebody know what is mean?
[09:56] <twb> Is that an error?
[10:36] <rosa_> yes, sorry...hi twb, sorry Im crazy...the error is:  Could not receive trustdoms
[10:40] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406262 in openipmi (universe) "Please merge openipmi 2.0.16-1(main) from debian unstable(main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406262
[10:41] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406263 in openipmi (universe) "Please merge openipmi 2.0.16-1(main) from debian unstable(main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406263
[10:44] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone help with setting up LDAP service on Ubuntu ?
[10:44] <AnAnt> is there a wiki doc or so ?
[10:44] <twb> What LDAP service?
[10:44] <AnAnt> twb: erm, slapd
[10:44] <twb> What isn't working?
[10:45] <AnAnt> I dunno how to set it up, that's why I ask if there's a wiki doc
[10:45] <_ruben> i think its explained in the server manual?
[10:46] <AnAnt> in man slapd ?
[10:46] <twb> Set it up for what?  DNS?
[10:47] <AnAnt> twb: user authentication
[10:47] <twb> Ah, libpam_ldap and libnss_ldap.
[10:47] <AnAnt> twb: aren't those for the client machines ?
[10:47] <twb> Right.
[10:47] <kim0> Hi .. I am see'ing traces in google regarding a DRBD pkg, that uses dkms .. is that already released ?
[10:48] <_ruben> https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/network-authentication.html
[10:48] <twb> Though typically your LDAP server would also be configured as a client machine.
[10:48] <_ruben> ldap sure is one of many things on my todo list .. wonder if i'll ever get to it :p
[10:49] <AnAnt> twb: you mean that I add users to the LDAP server via useradd ? then the rest of the clients will be able to see those users?
[10:50] <twb> I don't think useradd works (waah!) but certainly passwd should
[10:51] <AnAnt> _ruben: that doc seems useful, thanks !
[10:59] <rosa_> Hi, Please help...i have 1 week in that...I am gettin this error Not using winbind, requested domain [XXX] was for this SAM
[11:05] <mattt> rosa_: you should try google'ing these errors, you'd probably have more luck
[11:06] <rosa_> i tried a lot...but still i can get...
[11:09] <metalfan_> hi
[11:09] <metalfan_> sudo tc filter add dev eth2 parent ffff: protocol ip prio 10 u32 match u32 0 0 flowid 1:1 action ipt -j MARK --set-mark 1  action mirred egress redirect dev ifb0                   /lib/iptables/libipt_mark.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory                 why does tc or something else search for libipt_mark.so?
[11:13] <metalfan_> ah crap, my fault
[11:14] <metalfan_> forgot one tc line before that
[11:16] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406276 in munin (universe) "initial munin-node setup misses correct start/stop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406276
[11:51] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #315591 in openssh (main) "LD_LIBRARY_PATH set in ~/.profile doesn't stick" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/315591
[12:01] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406303 in php5 (main) "Compiled zip support in PHP 5.2.4 64bit can't open archives with large number of files." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406303
[12:26] <AnAnt> Hello, I think I've successful setup an LDAP server & LDAP authentication now I have a couple of issues:
[12:26] <AnAnt> 1. when an LDAP user logs in for the first time, the home dir isn't created for him
[12:26] <AnAnt> 2. LDAP user cannot change his password using passwd
[12:27] <AnAnt> it just asks for his current password then it terminates saying that his password was changed successfully (although it didn't prompt for new password)
[12:28] <twb> AnAnt: you need to learn how to drive pam, then
[12:28] <twb> Re (1), probably pam_mkhomedir
[12:28] <AnAnt> I just did: sudo pam-auth-update
[12:28] <twb> I dunno about that
[12:29] <twb> For the client side, I use auth-client-config lac-thingy
[12:29] <twb> (Ubuntu 8.04 clients.)
[12:30] <AnAnt> sudo auth-client-config -t nss -p lac_ldap
[12:30] <twb> Interesting, pam-auth-update looks to be similar, but not managing libnss
[12:37] <AnAnt> 2. also needed pam ?
[12:37] <pmatulis> AnAnt: what doc did you follow and what Ubuntu release are you using?
[12:38] <AnAnt> 8.10, the doc is https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html
[12:38] <AnAnt> oops
[12:38] <AnAnt> I read a doc for a different release
[12:38] <AnAnt> yet it worked
[12:48] <AnAnt> gecos field can't be UTF ?
[12:55] <_ruben> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/network-authentication.html ;)
[13:43] <refnumzx> I am using dansguardian and trying to setup filtergroups.  I have followed a howto at http://www.opensourcehowto.org/how-to/dansguardian/dansguardian-with-different-filter-groups.html  I am using the dansguardian that is available from the jaunty repository.  Users in groupmode2 and the filtergroups list is setup according to those instructions.  I have also configured the authentication plugins in the main dansguardian configura
[13:51] <fs_home> hello all
[13:51] <fs_home> please how i can install openSSH sefver using apt-get? each package name to use?
[13:52] <AnAnt> openssh-server
[13:53] <DelphiWorld> AnAnt: ok thanks
[14:00] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406360 in likewise-open (main) "menu no longer displays add/remove applications" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406360
[14:01] <ttx> uh
[14:01] <DelphiWorld> AnAnt: i say that source not found, what's up?
[14:02] <AnAnt> sudo apt-get install openssh-server
[14:03] <DelphiWorld> AnAnt: yes, but is saying source not found
[14:03] <AnAnt> dunno
[14:07] <refnumzx> I am using dansguardian and trying to setup filtergroups.  I have followed a howto at http://www.opensourcehowto.org/how-to/dansguardian/dansguardian-with-different-filter-groups.html  I am using the dansguardian that is available from the jaunty repository.  Users in groupmode2 and the filtergroups list is setup according to those instructions.  I have also configured the authentication plugins in the main dansguardian configura
[14:15] <refnumzx> delphiworld: it means your sources.list file is probably either messed up or you need to comment out the cdrom sources.
[14:17] <DelphiWorld> refnumzx: the cdrom source is commented?
[14:22] <DelphiWorld> installed, thanks
[14:31] <AnAnt> ok, I managed the PAM thing (thanks to an IT friend)
[14:31] <AnAnt> now the passwd change is needed
[14:31] <pmatulis> AnAnt: let us know of your solution
[14:32] <AnAnt> in /etc/pam.d/common-auth: session required /lib/security/pam_mkhomedir.so skel=/etc/skel/ umask=0022
[14:32] <AnAnt> as for the gecos field I had to edit the schema
[14:33]  * ball sighs
[14:34] <AnAnt> replace caseIgnoreIA5Match with caseIgnoreMatch
[14:35] <AnAnt> now, what's missing is:
[14:35] <AnAnt> 1. ability for user to change password
[14:36] <AnAnt> 2. there's GDM login error that the group cannot be set
[14:37] <AnAnt> 3. how can I give some rights to user X on machine Y (like mounting USB drives,...)
[14:37] <AnAnt> but the first two are more crucial
[14:37] <ball> AnAnt: 3) sounds like a job for groups
[14:37] <ball> Oh, you're doing the PAM thing
[14:38] <ball> no idea then.
[14:40] <kirkland> baffle: i actually don't need to play with it...
[14:40] <kirkland> baffle: i'm just trying to collect a few makes/models
[14:41] <kirkland> baffle: and, if you could try, run pm-suspend, and then wakeonlan it, to make sure that the s3 works
[14:42] <ball> I think my firmware's too old for pm-suspend
[14:43] <ball> It does APM and perhaps ACPI, but not in a way that Ubuntu Server groks
[15:11] <refnumzx> I am using dansguardian and trying to setup filtergroups.  I have followed a howto at http://www.opensourcehowto.org/how-to/dansguardian/dansguardian-with-different-filter-groups.html  I am using the dansguardian that is available from the jaunty repository.  Users in groupmode2 and the filtergroups list is setup according to those instructions.  I have also configured the authentication plugins in the main dansguardian configura
[15:12] <ScottK> lamont`: Ping.  I've got a potential BIND regression for you.
[15:25] <lamont`> meh
[15:25] <lamont`> what now?
[15:26] <ScottK> lamont: According to my DNS provider the new BIND release forgot that not all domain names are hostnames, disallowed underscores in domain names (where they are legal) and this was the cause of my domain vanishing of the net last night.
[15:26] <ScottK> They said it was an upstream issue, so I thought I'd mention it.
[15:34] <bitprophet> Anyone know of a decent mechanism for trying to shoehorn non-syslogged log files into syslog (outside of doing it by hand, that is)?
[15:35] <lamont> ScottK: if it's an A RR, then underscores are invalid
[15:35] <lamont> regardless of component
[15:37] <ScottK> lamont: The particular use case they broke are TXT records with DKIM selectors.  These are non-hostname domains that are required to be underscored for collision avoidance.
[15:38] <lamont> right
[15:45] <ScottK> lamont: Added detail, I think the issue (from the hints the provider was willing to give) may have been related to following a cname that involved an underscore.
[15:46] <lamont> cnames get into interesting lands
[15:46] <ScottK> Yep.
[15:46]  * ScottK has had that particular cname published for two years and this is the first I know of it causing a problem.
[16:01] <ball> hello bc
[16:22] <refnumzx> I am using dansguardian and trying to setup filtergroups.  I have followed a howto at http://www.opensourcehowto.org/how-to/dansguardian/dansguardian-with-different-filter-groups.html  I am using the dansguardian that is available from the jaunty repository.  Users in groupmode2 and the filtergroups list is setup according to those instructions.  I have also configured the authentication plugins in the main dansguardian configura
[17:03] <Sam-I-Am> ScottK: you around?
[17:03] <ScottK> Sam-I-Am: Vaguely.
[17:03] <Sam-I-Am> heh
[17:03] <Sam-I-Am> so... i'm thinking about joining the ubuntu server team
[17:03] <ScottK> OK
[17:04] <Sam-I-Am> wondered if theres any specific requirements aside from what i've read on the LP page
[17:04] <Sam-I-Am> and how i can fit in...
[17:04] <ScottK> Sam-I-Am: There aren't.  Those of us here who don't work for Canonical are here an a volunteer basis.  We're glad to have anyone help out as the are willing/able.
[17:05] <ScottK> How you fit in is up to your interests, ability, and time.
[17:05] <Sam-I-Am> mmkay...
[17:05] <ivoks> you basicaly do what's of your interest
[17:06] <ivoks> for example, i don't care about clouds, but i do about clusters - so i work on clusters
[17:06] <Sam-I-Am> some things i just dont quite know how to get involved in with the big picture... but i do them on the small scale for my employer... like taking recent releases (sometimes from CVS) of openldap and building packages for ubuntu including modifying patches and backporting other stuff.
[17:06] <ivoks> and email, when i have time :D
[17:07] <Sam-I-Am> i've been using LP to build and host my packages lately... so others can use my work.
[17:08] <ScottK> If your changes are generally useful then you should work to get them into the Ubuntu repos.
[17:08] <Sam-I-Am> also noticed you guys are looking for help writing docs/wikis on centralized authentication and file serving... e.g., openldap+samba+kerberos
[17:08] <ScottK> Sam-I-Am: Yes.  sommer coordinates most of the docs stuff.
[17:09] <Sam-I-Am> of course, several (or many) schools of thought exist for configuring all that stuff... so what i do might be different from what others think.
[17:10] <Sam-I-Am> i get to write detailed docs on how to configure it all for my employer, so i might as well try to get them out to the masses... especially the parts which confuse people the most like... generating certificates.  thats almost 80% of the problems i see in #openldap
[17:10] <ScottK> Yes.  Please.
[17:11] <Sam-I-Am> mmkay, just want to make sure i'm heading in the right direction
[17:13] <mathiaz> ttx: did you see my merge review proposal for cim-schema?
[17:13] <ttx> mathiaz: I didn't get any notification of it
[17:14] <ttx> mathiaz: url ?
[17:14] <mathiaz> ttx: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cim-schema/
[17:14] <mathiaz> ttx: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/ubuntu/karmic/cim-schema/2.22.0-update/+merge/9397
[17:15] <ttx> will have a look tomorrow
[17:15] <mathiaz> ttx: so you weren't notified?
[17:15] <ttx> mathiaz: no
[17:16] <ttx> gtg, we'll sove that mystery another day :)
[17:16] <ttx> solve, even
[17:22] <bobbyw> anyone using skytools on 9.04?
[18:29] <Sam-I-Am> ScottK: well, i applied for membership
[18:30] <ScottK> Sam-I-Am: Welcome.
[18:30] <Sam-I-Am> noticed theres some need for dynamic dns with dhcp docs...
[18:30] <bobbyw> anyone running postgres on ubuntu with a listen_address?
[18:35] <Sam-I-Am> ScottK: if you're interested in what i'm packaging... https://launchpad.net/~ionosphere80#ppas
[18:38] <Sam-I-Am> few backports to hardy... and any required libs... more interesting things are latest releases of openldap bound to gnutls, openssl, and mozilla nss (from cvs head... support isnt in a release yet)
[18:43] <otacon122> What kind of hardware would I need for Ubuntu 9.04 Server if I run DNS, DHCP, NAT, Firewall, Gateway, routing, remote access, and bandwidth allocation for high-bandwidth-demand devices?  There are five total devices in use on the network that require large amounts of bandwidth and three devices on the network that do not need very much bandwidth, so the server has to also be able to allocate bandwidth between the devices without 
[18:45] <Sam-I-Am> good question...
[18:45] <Sam-I-Am> what kind of bandwidth requirements?
[18:45] <_ruben> define high-bandwidth .. 10Mbps .. 100Mbps .. 10Gbps
[18:45] <otacon122> High bandwidth meaning LAN Party kind of demand
[18:45] <otacon122> And online gaming
[18:46] <Sam-I-Am> lan parties tend to be low bandwidth, high latency tho... unless you get a lot of people.
[18:46] <Sam-I-Am> er,
[18:46] <Sam-I-Am> requirements are low latency
[18:46] <_ruben> low latency :)
[18:46] <NCommander> kirkland, I"m working on your backport as we speak
[18:46] <kirkland> NCommander: sweet
[18:47] <NCommander> kirkland, (sorry on the delay to getting to it, debconf kept me busy)
[18:47] <Sam-I-Am> _ruben: not enough coffee yet
[18:47] <_ruben> and indeed, for lan gaming bandwidth doesnt tend to be the limiting factor
[18:47] <kirkland> NCommander: that libvirt proposed package made it to updates
[18:47] <otacon122> LAN parties are high-bandwidth low-latency requirements
[18:47] <NCommander> kirkland, I made one slight change to the debdiff (the versioning scheme for backports is slightly different, we use ~*distro*X vs. another .x)
[18:47] <otacon122> Online gaming is what puts the most load on my network/internet
[18:47] <_ruben> depends on the size actually .. which you have given no indication of
[18:47] <kirkland> NCommander: ah, okay, sorry about that
[18:47] <kirkland> NCommander: thanks for fixing inline
[18:47] <NCommander> kirkland, NP, easy to fix, I'll repost the debdiff if I don't have to make any more changes
[18:48] <kirkland> NCommander: perfect
[18:48] <_ruben> and still .. "high-bandwidth" doesnt mean shit in the end
[18:48] <NCommander> kirkland, care to sponsor the upload to intrepid-backports :-)
[18:48]  * NCommander is somewhat amused how many people will have to touch this single backport
[18:48] <kirkland> NCommander: sure
[18:48] <_ruben> some say 1Mbps is high, others see 10Gbps as low bandwidth
[18:48] <otacon122> there are 8 devices total...Two Mac boxes, an X-Box 360, two Ubuntu boxes, two Windows boxes, and a networked printer
[18:48] <otacon122> The mac boxes, Ubuntu boxes, and X-Box 360 are all used for online gaming
[18:49] <kirkland> NCommander: just point me to the debdiff when you have it
[18:49] <_ruben> 8 devices + online gaming .. not the lan party definition i had in mind :)
[18:49] <otacon122> The Mac boxes, X-Box 360, and Ubuntu boxes are all on wireless
[18:49] <_ruben> i'd call it a wan party
[18:50] <otacon122> ruben, yeah, and that's why I need something that's good at managing bandwidth...I only have 15 megabits available from the ISP
[18:50] <_ruben> anyways .. a P-200MHz can properly route/firewall a 100Mbps connection from what i recall
[18:51] <_ruben> managing bandwidth doesnt require power, it requires intelligence
[18:51] <otacon122> The router, unfortunately, is a hardwired D-Link EBR2310 and it does not have the ability to prioritize traffic based on type or protocol.
[18:52] <LORDWicho> hi
[18:52] <LORDWicho> eveypeople
[18:53] <otacon122> The other problem I'm having is none of the machines on the network can communicate with each other.  My two ubuntu boxes can see and talk to each other, the two Mac boxes can see and talk to each other, and the two Windows boxes can see and talk to each other and the networked printer, but none of them can communicate with the others
[18:54] <_ruben> define communicate
[18:55] <otacon122> Well, for example, I can't get my Ubuntu Desktop to even see the Windows machines or access the networked printer
[18:57] <otacon122> I plan to use Ubuntu Server for routing, but I need it powerful enough to run RIPv2 or OSPF and provide IPv6 support
[18:58] <otacon122> In addition, I need it to be able to function as a domain controller, run DHCP and DNS, operate as a print server, run NAT and IPTables, operate as the gateway device, and also allocate bandwidth based on application, connection, and/or time of day
[18:59] <otacon122> I also want to be able to manage the server remotely using SSH
[19:00] <otacon122> I'm stuck trying to figure out what hardware the server needs...I'm trying to decide between a Kentsfield Intel Core2 Quad with 8GB of RAM or a Prescott P4 with 2GB of RAM
[19:02] <RoyK> isn't prescott rather ancient?
[19:02] <otacon122> Prescott is an old Socket 475 3GHz single-core processor
[19:03] <RoyK> yeah, with the speed of an 1,8GHz xeon these days
[19:03] <RoyK> or less
[19:03] <otacon122> The Kentsfield Core2 Quad is 2.4GHz per core, 4 cores total
[19:03] <RoyK> I was talking per core
[19:04] <otacon122> Yeah...Kentsfield is 2.4GHz per core
[19:04] <otacon122> Total of four cores
[19:04] <RoyK> and the performance is probably 25% higher per core than the old prescott
[19:04] <madil> hello
[19:04] <otacon122> Yeah...
[19:04] <_ruben> both are waay overkill :)
[19:05] <madil> i need to generate openssl rsa key, i know to use openssl genrsa ecc..
[19:05] <otacon122> Well, would they be overkill for my needs, though?
[19:05] <madil> but.. someone can tell to me how to select the primes number for generate it ?
[19:05] <madil> openssl genrsa -o name_key.pem 4096
[19:06] <madil> but can i select the primes number for generate it ?
[19:06] <RoyK> otacon122: for a router, you would need a PIII clocked at 600MHz or so for internet access, perhaps less
[19:06] <madil> i dont like use random
[19:06] <otacon122> RoyK, its not JUST going to be a router
[19:06] <NCommander> kirkland, ready to sponsor?
[19:06] <NCommander> kirkland, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/396721
[19:06] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 396721 in intrepid-backports "backport kvm-84 to hardy and intrepid" [Medium,New]
[19:06] <RoyK> otacon122: file server?
[19:06] <kirkland> NCommander: ack
[19:06] <otacon122> Nope
[19:06] <RoyK> then what?
[19:06] <RoyK> web server?
[19:06] <otacon122> Its got to handle the high demands of online gaming and video streaming
[19:07] <NCommander> kirkland, I kinda want to wait for intrepid to go through and make sure we haven't broken the world before we backport to hardy if its all the same to you
[19:07] <madil> kirkland: can you help me ?
[19:07] <kirkland> NCommander: sounds fine to me
[19:07] <RoyK> otacon122: in terms of routing, or are you going to serve the video streaming from that that box?
[19:07] <RoyK> routing traffic is the same whatever the traffic
[19:08] <madil> NCommander: ?
[19:08] <otacon122> The video streaming will be from the internet, and the routing will be either OSPF or RIPv2, both of which require a lot of router processing power
[19:08] <RoyK> not a lot
[19:08] <RoyK> both are quite cpu cheap
[19:08] <RoyK> I wouldn't use RIP if I were you
[19:08] <otacon122> Well, I need at least one of those because of the online gaming and video streaming
[19:08] <RoyK> how lare is the network?
[19:09] <RoyK> how large, even
[19:09] <madil> hey........
[19:09] <otacon122> Its got two mac boxes, two Ubuntu Boxes, an X-Box 360, two Windows boxes, and a networked Printer, with the macs, ubuntu boxes, and X-Box 360 all being used for online gaming and/or video streaming
[19:09] <madil> ..............
[19:09] <madil> ....................................
[19:10] <kirkland> madil: what is your issue
[19:10] <otacon122> The mac boxes, ubuntu boxes, and X-Box 360 are all on wireless
[19:10] <madil> kirkland: i need to generate rsakey for openssl
[19:10] <RoyK> otacon122: then why do you need RIP or OSPF? that box can just be set as the default gateway, no routing protocols needed
[19:10] <madil> but i like specify the primes numbers to use..
[19:10] <kirkland> madil: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/karmic/en/man1/openssl.1ssl.html
[19:11] <otacon122> RoyK, I need RIPv2 or OSPF to help manage the high bandwidth demand
[19:11] <RoyK> they won't help you
[19:11] <madil> kirkland: do not find the solutions.. i know the manpage.
[19:11] <RoyK> they are routing protocols
[19:11] <otacon122> The online gaming and video streaming need low-latency, high-QoS connections, and OSPF provides those
[19:11] <RoyK> how many wan connections do you have?
[19:11] <kirkland> madil: i'm sorry, i don't know anything else beyond that
[19:11] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #406524 in samba (main) "poop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406524
[19:11] <madil> kirkland: i need to use openssl genrsa  scifting the primes number to use, do not like use pseudo-random functions.
[19:12] <otacon122> The only WAN connection on the network is used for internet access, and the bandwidth the ISP is giving us is only 15 megabits per second
[19:12] <RoyK> otacon122: are you connecting a LAN to the internet with one connection?
[19:12] <RoyK> then you won't need any routing protocols
[19:12] <otacon122> The gateway router is a D-Link EBR2310 and it is the sole connection between WAN and LAN
[19:12] <RoyK> so long as the ISP isn't peering with you on BGP or anything, but then you'd have more than one connection
[19:13] <RoyK> otacon122: forget about those routing protocols - they're not for home use
[19:13] <otacon122> Well, the problem with RIPv1 is it has zero fault tolerance for routing loops
[19:13] <kirkland> NCommander: got distracted ... okay, i'm on it now
[19:14] <RoyK> otacon122: well, you have only one router, right?
[19:14] <otacon122> and its a classful routing protocol meaning all IP addresses on the network have to be on the same subnet or else it won't route between subnets
[19:14] <otacon122> Right now as it sits, there are two subnets on this network
[19:14] <RoyK> how many subnets do you have?
[19:15] <otacon122> A standard class C subnet and a 255.255.255.240 subnet
[19:15] <RoyK> and those subnets all have a common router?
[19:16] <otacon122> No...The 240 subnet has its own router so that I can have internet access...I can't get internet access without the router unless I go back to a /24 subnet
[19:16] <otacon122> That's the problem with RIPv1 is it cannot route between subnets
[19:16] <otacon122> That's why I want RIPv2 or OSPF, as both of those do not look at the subnet mask when routing
[19:17] <otacon122> Unfortunately, both RIPv2 and OSPF require more resources than RIPv1
[19:18] <kirkland> NCommander: i think your patch is reversed
[19:18] <RoyK> erm
[19:18] <RoyK> otacon122:
[19:18] <RoyK> please explain your setup
[19:18] <kirkland> NCommander: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29673257/kvm.debdiff
[19:18] <NCommander> kirkland, er, oops
[19:18] <RoyK> I doubt you need a routing protocol
[19:18] <kirkland> NCommander: throw up a new one, just for clarity
[19:18] <RoyK> you just need a common gateway
[19:18] <NCommander> kirkland, yeah, sorry about that
[19:19] <kirkland> NCommander: no worries... bash globbing * got you?
[19:19] <NCommander> kirkland, lack of sleep got me
[19:20] <otacon122> Well, the gateway router, two Windows boxes, and networked printer are all downstairs with the cable modem and are all hardwired.  The router is connected through a wall circuit to the upstairs wireless router, which both of my computers connect to on a /27 subnet, then that router connects to a switch which then is connected to a Linksys access point that the Mac boxes and X-Box 360 connect to
[19:20] <NCommander> kirkland, reuploaded
[19:22] <otacon122> All the wireless devices require large amounts of bandwidth for online gaming and/or video streaming, so these machines regularly push the limits of the wireless' capabilities
[19:22] <otacon122> Unfortunately, there is no possible way to hardwire everything without causing a hazard
[19:23] <RoyK> otacon122: no routing protocol will help you, but this might http://lartc.org/
[19:24] <otacon122> That doesn't help...I don't see anything on that site that talks about Linux Advanced Routing...
[19:24] <RoyK> it's not about routing
[19:24] <RoyK> it's about traffic control
[19:24] <otacon122> I shouldn't have to download anything to get that information
[19:25] <RoyK> well, whatever
[19:25] <RoyK> I'm just trying to help, ok?
[19:25] <otacon122> I know...
[19:26] <otacon122> Basically, I need to know what hardware in the server will be able to handle the high bandwidth demands of my network without issues and still be able to do DHCP, DNS, routing, remote access, NAT, firewall, gateway, and domain controller functions
[19:26] <RoyK> but you won't get traffic control with RIP or OSPF or something like that
[19:27] <otacon122> That's not why I intend to use them
[19:27] <otacon122> I know all about routing protocols
[19:27] <RoyK> very little hardware will be required for that
[19:27] <cmelo> Whats the deal with this Bind bug?
[19:27] <otacon122> I intend to use OSPF or RIPv2 for the redundancy and error correction they provide
[19:27] <RoyK> cmelo: just a DoS
[19:28] <cmelo> ahh
[19:28] <cmelo> thanks
[19:28] <otacon122> And for the fact they can route between subnets
[19:28] <cmelo> I see there is a patch - I will be busy for the afternoon :)
[19:29] <RoyK> otacon122: go on, try, please, I'd stick to a gateway in the middle doing the routing. There is no redundancy in your network anyway, so why bother?
[19:29] <otacon122> RoyK, well, I don't think you understand
[19:30] <otacon122> I need the QoS and reliability of the connection to be as high as possible continually because of the online gaming and video streaming
[19:30] <RoyK> yes
[19:30] <RoyK> and that is traffic control
[19:30] <RoyK> not routing
[19:30] <kirkland> NCommander: looks better
[19:30] <RoyK> routing is about getting a package the right way
[19:30] <otacon122> rrrr...You're not reading my statements very well
[19:30] <kirkland> NCommander: can you do the libvirt one too for intrepid?
[19:30] <RoyK> yes, I am
[19:31] <RoyK> QoS is traffic control, not routing
[19:31] <kirkland> NCommander: these really should be uploaded together
[19:31] <NCommander> kirkland, libvirt also needs a backport?
[19:31]  * NCommander must have missed that
[19:31] <kirkland> NCommander: yes, assigned you the bug
[19:31] <otacon122> I said the reason I plan to use RIPv2 and OSPF is because they can route between subnets and they have error correction methods built in to prevent routing loops
[19:31] <kirkland> NCommander: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/404060
[19:31] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 404060 in intrepid-backports "backport libvirt to hardy and intrepid" [Undecided,New]
[19:31] <otacon122> The traffic control will be provided by a third-party program like Twinkle
[19:32] <kirkland> NCommander: kvm uploaded to intrepid-backports
[19:32] <RoyK> otacon122: you do not need routing protocols for such a small network
[19:33] <otacon122> You don't understand...Just...nevermind
[19:33]  * RoyK thinks otacon122 doesn't understand much about routing
[19:33] <NCommander> kirkland, let me look at that
[19:34] <kirkland> NCommander: thanks
[19:34] <otacon122> The routing protocols aren't going to be for traffic control.  They're only going to be used because they can route between subnets and for the error correction they have built-in to prevent routing loops.  A third party program like Twinkle will provide the traffic control and Samba will take over the other duties
[19:34] <NCommander> This is an automatic backport
[19:34] <NCommander> kirkland, there are no changes, I'll simply file a normal request, and an archive admin will do it
[19:34] <kirkland> NCommander: no changes for intrepid
[19:35] <kirkland> NCommander: there are for hardy
[19:35] <NCommander> kirkland, right
[19:35] <otacon122> OSPF is my preference because it automatically chooses the line with the lowest latency first
[19:36] <NCommander> kirkland, ACK'ed
[19:36] <kirkland> NCommander: thanks
[19:36] <RoyK> OSPF is a link state protocol, not vector state
[19:36] <otacon122> OSPF looks at the latency of the line, or lines that have little traffic
[19:36] <otacon122> It chooses the least-congested routes first
[19:37] <RoyK> wtf does that matter so long as you only have one wan connection?
[19:38] <otacon122> Well, RIPv2 is another one I like because it functions just like RIPv1 but has countermeasures built in against routing loops
[19:39] <otacon122> And RIPv2 can route between subnets, unlike RIPv1
[19:40] <otacon122> Another issue I have is the wireless...The wireless access point and router both do not provide CSMA/CD functionality
[19:42] <otacon122> Anyway, other than those, my main concern is how much processing power Twinkle needs to handle the bandwidth demands of the network
[19:43] <otacon122> I know Samba can work very well on a 486 and 128MB of RAM, but I'm more concerned with how much CPU and RAM resources Twinkle would need because of the high demands
[19:45] <otacon122> Samba will take care of the DNS, DCHP, print server, NAT, Gateway, and Firewall duties.  Twinkle will take care of the traffic control, and therefor needs to be able to handle the high bandwidth demands, and then I'll need routing functionality as well
[19:46] <Jare> I don't understand, why are you trying to do so complicated system for a simple network. I would just put an old pc with pfsense (or similar) between wan/lan and a gigabit switch for lan.
[19:46] <otacon122> Jare, its because nobody is answering my question...I thought it would be a simple answer that would take less than 30 seconds
[19:47] <otacon122> I need something capable of handling high bandwidth demands because of online gaming and video streaming/torrents
[19:48] <otacon122> My original question was what hardware would the server need to be able to handle the demands of online gaming and video streaming or torrents and still provide DNS, DHCP, routing, NAT, gateway, firewall, and print server functionality without issues
[19:49] <otacon122> Samba will take care of the DNS, DHCP, NAT, gateway, firewall, and print server duties and Twinkle will be used for traffic control
[19:50] <otacon122> I should not need to give the entire network topology to get an answer to that question
[19:57] <otacon122> Its not as simple as it seems, either.  I can't just drop a gigabit NIC card in a 486 machine and expect it to be able to handle having 30 megabits per second thrown at it constantly
[19:58] <otacon122> Something has to process all that data, and a 486 is nowhere near capable
[19:58] <pmatulis> so use a better machine.  are you asking what machine to buy?
[19:59] <otacon122> I'm asking what hardware...Like, how powerful the CPU should be and how much RAM the server needs
[19:59] <pmatulis> nobody knows, set up a test box
[20:00] <otacon122> I already have an idea of two different configs, but I don't know which of the two would do the job...I have a choice between a 3GHz single-core Pentium 4 or a 2.4GHz quad-core CPU and either 2GB or 8GB of RAM
[20:01] <genii> otacon122: I recently set up a p3 733 machine with 256Mb which handles traffic for 18-22 inside boxes and it never gets over 5% usage
[20:01] <otacon122> genii, yeah, but do you do a lot of online gaming and stuff?
[20:01] <genii> (this is with 2 boxes streaming video 24/7  )
[20:02] <otacon122> Because that's going to be the determining factor in the hardware I need is the bandwidth load and the processing power to manage the bandwidth
[20:02] <otacon122> The total bandwidth demand at any given time is around 30 megabits per second
[20:02] <otacon122> It peaks at 55 megabits per second
[20:02] <genii> otacon122: It's for an internet tv station. So they have 2 video streams out 24 hrs a day. Also they use incoming voip connections to interview guests (sometimes conferencing up to a dozen of them)
[20:03] <otacon122> So the P4 with 2GB of RAM, a terabyte hard drive and a gigabit NIC card would work?
[20:03] <genii> That would be more than adequate, yes
[20:04] <otacon122> ok...
[20:04] <otacon122> Thanks
[20:05] <Jare> now i don't understand, where the hell is he going to need that much power for the use he explained
[20:05] <Jare> whatever
[20:06] <genii> Jare: A p3 class box would do fine for him, I'm sure. But people like to go overkill
[20:11] <leonel> Django 1.1  is now on Debian unstable ..  any eta to get it merged to  karmic ?
[20:13] <Jare> genii: yeah, and at the same time people are completely okay with their branded home routers :)
[20:14] <genii> Which are usually some kind of ARM cpu
[20:20] <Jare> yes, they are usually ARMs around 200MHz with <32MB of ram and software is optimized for that use. I wonder, what would happen if someone told that to them...
[20:33] <Sam-I-Am> trying to get the ball rolling for merging openldap 2.4.17 into karmic
[20:33] <otacon122> genii, you still here?
[20:34] <ivoks> so, php lead developer is looking for a new job
[20:34] <Sam-I-Am> hmm?
[20:35] <ivoks> yahoo! is, basicaly, now part of microsoft
[20:35] <Sam-I-Am> oh boy
[20:35] <Sam-I-Am> when did that happen?
[20:35] <otacon122> Anyone know how effective Quagga is at routing for small networks (10 devices)?
[20:35] <ivoks> Sam-I-Am: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8174763.stm
[20:36] <zul_> ivoks: eh?
[20:36] <Sam-I-Am> ick
[20:36] <Sam-I-Am> whats php have to do with yahoo again?
[20:37] <ivoks> Sam-I-Am: it's one of lead contributors to php
[20:37] <zul_> die php die!
[20:37] <ivoks> Sam-I-Am: it's employing Rasmus
[20:39] <ivoks> well, php probably won't die :)
[20:39] <ivoks> but it should :D
[20:41] <otacon122> ivoks, its too bad geeks like myself aren't in demand anymore...I got my A+ certification with remote support designation recently but its impossible to find a job that will take the certification
[20:41] <otacon122> Funny thing was, I scored higher on the remote support technician exam than I did on the A+ Essentials exam
[20:41] <genii> otacon122: Still here, yes. Apologies on lag, work required me
[20:42] <otacon122> genii, is Quagga a good routing program for small networks like mine?
[20:42] <ivoks> i had high opinion about certification
[20:42] <Sam-I-Am> otacon122: lots of certs went by the wayside once people realized they could just blast away at them without really learning anything
[20:42] <ivoks> then i got certified
[20:43] <ivoks> :)
[20:43] <otacon122> I've been dealing with computers since the Tandy 1000/Commodore 64 days
[20:43] <Sam-I-Am> in #cisco i routinely see people just begging for answers to practice test questions... not really interested in why.
[20:44] <otacon122> I can design and build computers for pretty much any purpose even in my sleep
[20:44] <genii> otacon122: I just looked at the quagga site to get an idea. It looks fine
[20:44] <ivoks> otacon122: then start your own company
[20:44] <otacon122> ivoks, I'm trying...I posted fliers up and everything...No responses yet, though
[20:45] <Sam-I-Am> otacon122: how old are you?
[20:45] <ivoks> sacrifice and patients are first steps when starting company
[20:45] <otacon122> 25...I'll be 26 in october
[20:45] <Sam-I-Am> and money!
[20:45] <Sam-I-Am> otacon122: did you go to college?
[20:46] <otacon122> Yeah...Most of my computer skills are self-taught but I went to school for the more advanced stuff like WAN configuration, routing, network security, and VLANs
[20:47] <otacon122> In school, I learned how to set up and configure wide-area networks, I learned all about routing, NAT and hardware firewall configuration, VLANs and Inter-VLAN routing, and network security
[20:48] <Sam-I-Am> ok...
[20:48] <otacon122> I could tell you everything you ever wanted to know about setting up and configuring Cisco routers and Cisco PIX firewalls
[20:49] <Sam-I-Am> how about getting kerberos working :)
[20:49] <Sam-I-Am> on cisco...
[20:49] <otacon122> lol...Not that...I'm talking about CLI configuration stuff
[20:50] <otacon122> You give me a cisco router and I can write every command needed to get your network functional
[20:50] <otacon122> I can work on RIPv1, RIPv2, EIGRP, and OSPF, but I specialize in EIGRP
[20:52] <Sam-I-Am> any linux experience?
[20:52] <otacon122> I'm using Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty full-time and have been for almost two months now
[20:52] <otacon122> Before that, I was a Windows fanboy
[20:52] <otacon122> Been with Windows since the Windows 3.1/MS-DOS days
[20:53] <otacon122> Worked on Windows 3.0/3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows Server 2003
[20:56] <otacon122> Only thing I can't do is set up and configure DNS or DHCP
[20:56] <Sam-I-Am> in windows or linux?
[20:56] <otacon122> Windows...And I only briefly touched on Windows Active Directory
[20:56] <otacon122> I can do users/groups and get domain controllers to talk to each other, but I can't do any of the more advanced AD stuff
[21:00] <otacon122> I'm still a Linux n00b, so I am not able to use Linux in a corporate environment
[21:01] <Sam-I-Am> well, getting good at it gives you more geek creds
[21:01] <otacon122> Yeah, I know...That's one reason I decided to start using it full time
[21:01] <otacon122> The other reason is because I got tired of having to constantly upgrade just to meet the demands Windows Vista places on machines
[21:02] <otacon122> Too much money being spent on the damn computer because of Vista's ever-increasing demand for resources
[21:02] <Sam-I-Am> i'm about opposite of you... way more linux than windows.
[21:03] <otacon122> Yeah...These days, having experience with both is a huge plus
[21:03] <otacon122> Funny thing is, a lot of people think Linux is hard to learn
[21:03] <otacon122> But its really easy if you find the right distro
[21:04] <otacon122> Heck, my 50 year old father was able to learn Ubuntu without ever asking for help...Mind you, I let him use my laptop for it, which was already fully configured, but you get my point
[21:06] <otacon122> Only thing I am still a n00b at is doing command line stuff in Linux...I have to learn it for BackTrack 3, but in Ubuntu most of everything I want to do can be done through the GUI
[21:07] <Sam-I-Am> i'm not much of a gui person
[21:07] <otacon122> That's the problem with going from Windows to Linux
[21:07] <otacon122> You're too addicted to having the GUI available that its hard to learn CLI
[21:08] <Sam-I-Am> i think it depends a lot on where you start... if you started on CLI like me, you tend to gravitate towards CLI.
[21:08] <otacon122> Yeah...I mostly did GUI stuff...I never did do command line because my specialty is hardware, not software, so I never had to use the command line to configure hardware
[21:09] <otacon122> Except when I was working on the cisco stuff in school, then it was nothing but command line
[21:11] <otacon122> A bunch of horror stories came from that...One instructor talked about how he got called up in the middle of the night to fix a Cisco router that went apeshit and when he got there, he typed "Copy Run Start" instead of "Copy Start Run" and completely erased every setting the company needed
[21:12] <Vog> Sounds liek a good reason why he's a instructor and no longer an admin...
[21:13] <Vog> Those who can... do those who can't... etc...
[21:13] <otacon122> Another one was all conspiracy theorist..."I don't believe in 'political correctness'.  'Political Correctness' is politicians and media who make you think it is entirely possible to pick up a turd from the clean end"
[21:14] <otacon122> My response: "There is no clean end to a turd" and he said "That's my point.  Political Correctness doesn't exist"
[21:15] <otacon122> A third instructor was a huge Star Wars fan...Every other word out of his mouth had something to do with Star Wars
[21:16] <otacon122> I decided to come to class wearing a shirt that says "Come to the Dark Side.  We have cookies." and he just looked at me with that "you're crazy" look and said "The prince of Insufficient Light.  Sit down and get to work."
[21:20] <otacon122> Another shirt I like wearing simply has a picture of all the different heads of a screw driver and says "I void warranties"
[21:21] <otacon122> I wear that shirt when I have to go fix people's computers because I never use parts from the manufacturer...Takes too damn long to wait for the part to arrive
[21:22] <otacon122> And most companies these days don't have a supply closet full of spare parts.  I have to carry an entire 100 square foot supply closet in a small 5 square foot tool box
[21:24] <otacon122> On days where I'm out and about, either running errands or just haunting the local tourist traps, I wear a shirt that says "Wardriver"
[21:27] <otacon122> True geeks have so many spare parts laying around it would make museums jealous
[21:28] <otacon122> They're also packrats...If there's a place to put something, they'll find it
[21:28] <otacon122> Any available space gets used...Hallways, counters, closets, you name it, they'll use it for storage
[21:30] <otacon122> Those are the kind of geeks who will have a minifridge, microwave, and boxes upon boxes of Bawls caffeine drinks in their cubicle
[21:32] <otacon122> Then you have the kind of geeks who are so obsessed about security they won't work at all unless their workspace is a hardened panic room with top-of-the-line security systems
[21:39] <Sam-I-Am> heh
[21:40] <otacon122> So, yeah...You can tell what kind of skills I have with computers
[21:42] <otacon122> I'm hoping I can find a job soon...Or that people start responding to the fliers I posted for the computer company I started
[21:42] <otacon122> My plan is once I get a source of income, build myself a good server and use it as the gateway device then see if the ISP will let me buy and use my own cable modem
[21:44] <otacon122> Here's the website to my computer company if anyone is interested: http://nainescomputerconsulting.webs.com/
[21:45] <otacon122> One thing I forgot to add to the website is I do offer custom-built computers...You tell me what its intended use will be and give me your budget and I'll get the best tech available within that price range
[21:47] <otacon122> I can build heavy-duty backbone servers for around $1,500 or heavy-duty workstations for $900
[21:49] <otacon122> For example, you give me $1,500 and tell me you need a server to function as a domain controller for a large network or to manage wide-area networks and I'll build you a quad-core system with 8GB of RAM in a case that's not much bigger than a child's lunch box.  The fact I use standard off-the-shelf parts means repair and maintenance is no fuss
[21:49] <otacon122> I'd come back with the server built and ready for an operating system and I'd hand you the server and about $15 in change
[21:53] <otacon122> And that would include an uninterruptible power supply that can run the server for up to 140 minutes on a full charge
[21:54] <otacon122> Two hours should be more than sufficient to get the work you're doing finished and everything saved and uploaded to the server before the server shuts down
[21:58] <otacon122> The $900 workstations come in the same size case, but instead of a quad core and 8GB of RAM I throw in a dual-core with 4GB of RAM and you don't get the uninterruptible power supply or the PCI Express gigabit adapter
[21:58] <otacon122> Other than that, I use the same motherboard and same size hard drive
[21:59] <Sam-I-Am> have you considered redundancy?
[21:59] <otacon122> That's why I get a UPS system with the server...That way if the power goes out the server won't crash
[21:59] <Sam-I-Am> and what if the server dies?
[22:00] <Sam-I-Am> i dont run one of anything when it comes to network services
[22:00] <otacon122> Yeah...With as cheap as my servers are, its easy to afford more than one
[22:01] <otacon122> You could get three of them for about the same price you'd pay for a similarly-equipped Dell PowerEdge server
[22:03] <otacon122> That's one way I deal with redundancy.  The other way is with the UPS system, and the third way is by using standard off-the-shelf parts.  If a part on the server dies, just raid the supply closet if you have one and drop a spare part in and its back up and running
[22:04] <otacon122> Designed that way intentionally to make maintenance and repair as no-fuss as possible
[22:06] <otacon122> A quad-core Dell PowerEdge server with 8GB of RAM would easily run you at least $5,000 and you'd have to deal with either proprietary parts or parts that you can only buy from Dell.  You could get three of my servers for around $4,500 and they'd all use standard off-the-shelf parts so that if anything crashes the downtime would be in minutes instead of hours or days
[22:11] <otacon122> The server itself would come with a single 1TB hard drive, an optical drive, and a PCI Express x4 two-port Gigabit NIC card in addition to the onboard 10/100 NIC card
[22:12] <otacon122> It would have the capability of running two more External Serial ATA hard drives or multiple USB hard drives
[22:13] <otacon122> All you'd need is an adapter that mounts in one of the rear slots and converts the onboard SATA ports into eSATA ports
[22:15] <otacon122> The two eSATA ports can then be used for backups...Have two eSATA hard drives running at the same time to receive the backup and the backups would be so fast that it would only take maybe 2 hours to back up a full 1 terabyte drive
[22:15] <otacon122> You use a tape drive and that process could take 10 hours or more
[22:17] <otacon122> Alternately, the motherboard supports PXEBoot and booting from a USB drive in addition to the normal boot options
[22:21] <otacon122> Easiest configuration for these servers is to use the onboard 10/100 NIC card to connect to the internet or wide-area network and the gigabit ports for the internal network, then running SSH to manage the server remotely.
[22:23] <otacon122> Their small size would allow you to tuck them away in a dark corner and wire them up that way, or if you need many of them for backbone duties, you could fit 50 of them in a small utility closet
[22:25] <otacon122> Plus, that small size serves another purpose - it means you do not need a dedicated HVAC system to keep them cool
[22:26] <otacon122> Save yourself some money on utility bills that way
[22:26] <otacon122> In addition, that small size means they'd be extremely quiet compared to a Dell PowerEdge server
[22:38] <otacon122> Put simply, these servers are small enough and quiet enough you won't need a dedicated server room for them
[22:39] <Sam-I-Am> well, we dont do sales here... only support for ubuntu server.
[22:39] <otacon122> Yeah, I know...
[22:40] <otacon122> I'm just saying, I know enough about servers to build them myself
[22:40] <otacon122> and I can build them for any purpose
[22:41] <otacon122> All this information was about the computer company I started up, but unfortunately I haven't had any contacts yet
[22:41] <otacon122> With the way the economy is, though, I'm not surprised
[22:42] <otacon122> Many people these days are resorting to DIY computer repair projects or they outsource all their tech support
[22:42] <otacon122> Anyway, I need to get going...Dinnertime
[23:34] <altf2o> hey all quick question. Postfix is running great, however when i view my mail (mail) it dumps it to /home/uid/mbox. I use an email client from my Desktop sometimes and would like it to stay in /var/mail/uid , anyway i can have it automatically stay? Or kick it back if i happen to SSH in and read it?
[23:35] <infinity> Don't read you mail with mail(1) would be my suggestion.
[23:35] <infinity> mutt's nice.
[23:35] <altf2o> hmm, ok, let me look at that.
[23:44] <altf2o> cool, that's much nicer cmd line interface, thanks...