[00:49] <LjL> sssh, you didn't notice me.
[00:49] <elky> Flannel, did he PM you anyway?
[00:50] <mechtech> flannel: you here?
[00:50] <Flannel> mechtech: yeah, one second.
[00:50] <mechtech> ok
[00:50] <Flannel> Escalade-tor-dor: How can we help you today?
[00:50] <Escalade-tor-dor> I just have a general question
[00:50] <Escalade-tor-dor> Will PM work?
[00:51] <Flannel> You're here, go ahead and ask.
[00:51] <Escalade-tor-dor> Is that the IP address before a user's nick or is that just after you register a nick?
[00:52] <Flannel> Escalade-tor-dor: This channel is for operator related questions, for general IRC questions, there's ##freenode, or even #ubuntu-offtopic.
[00:52] <Escalade-tor-dor> And what if there are users sharing a connection but they got banned, causing me to get banned?
[00:52] <Flannel> Escalade-tor-dor: Then you come here and discuss it.
[00:52] <mechtech> that is semi related to my issue
[00:53] <Escalade-tor-dor> yeah, I have this roommate abusing the irc chats and got the connection banned from it. So I just contact ops in whatever channel that is?
[00:53] <Flannel> Escalade-tor-dor: Yeah, that's how you've gotta do it.
[00:54] <Escalade-tor-dor> thanks Flannel
[00:54] <Flannel> Escalade-tor-dor: If there's nothing else we can help you with here today, please part.  Thanks.
[00:55] <Flannel> elky: He's here now.  I've gotta get back to work, which is why I suggested here instead of a query.
[00:55] <Flannel> mechtech: Go ahead.
[00:57] <mechtech> ok...someone was really rude, and abusive to me earlier...I wasn't all that concerned with their rudeness...I got some advice from jrib who told me to do /ignore on him...I did that
[00:57] <mechtech> then they PM'ed me again...after the /ignore
[00:57] <LjL> from a different nick / different address?
[00:58] <mechtech> slo, I whoised them, and got some really confusing results...see here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/236174/
[00:58] <LjL> err, that's the whois for jrib...?
[00:58] <mechtech> ljl: no, it was still de...see new paste following
[00:59] <mechtech> see...I selected DE, then hit the "whois" button...only once
[00:59] <LjL> well, i can assure you if nothing else that jrib isn't that person :)
[00:59] <mechtech> didn't even know about /whois yet...jrib told me about it
[00:59] <mechtech> I feel the same
[00:59] <LjL> a "DE" is currently online but not in #ubuntu
[01:00] <mechtech> so I can only assume that DE somehow spoofed his nick
[01:00] <mechtech> onto jrib
[01:00] <Flannel> In some clients if you just do /whois, they'll do a whois for the person whos query window you're in.
[01:00] <mechtech> I can give you his info: n=DE@adsl-75-6-148-56.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net
[01:00] <LjL> no, i think either you misclicked without noticing or your client automatically whoises people you have messages open with
[01:00] <LjL> uhm, that doesn't seem to be the one currently online
[01:00] <mechtech> I was in the PM room from DE at the time
[01:01] <mechtech> using xchat
[01:02] <LjL> i can pretty much assure you that the jrib whois is a genuine whois for jrib, even though i don't know why you obtained it
[01:03] <mechtech> here is a transcript of the unsolicited, and offensive PM: http://paste.ubuntu.com/236241/
[01:03] <mechtech> LjL: I only whois'ed once, by pressing the whois button in the PM room with DE
[01:04] <LjL> wait
[01:06] <mechtech> After he said "I won't" I spoke with jrib who told me to use /ignore on him, so I did...everything else that follows is AFTER the /ignore
[01:07] <Pricey> mechtech: This doesn't appear to be an ubuntu issue. If you would like I'll have a look at it and see what I can do for you?
[01:08] <Flannel> Pricey: The guy from that paste appears to be the Escalade guy who was just in here.
[01:08] <mechtech> I don't understand...I was told by operators to take abuse issues here
[01:08] <mechtech> see...I knew it was somehow related to his issue
[01:10] <mechtech> and, my big issue isn't being cussed at or even racism (I'm white, so being called that is irrelevant) ny big issue is that this guy was able to PM me AFTER the ignore by somehow riding jrib's ident
[01:12] <Pricey> mechtech: At a guess, I would suggest that your client is behaving wierdly. Could you provide us with better timestamps on that log?
[01:13] <Pricey> mechtech: alsot he timezone the logs are set to
[01:14] <mechtech> I don't know how...I did click "save log to file", but I have since closed the PM window from DE
[01:15] <Pricey> mechtech: How long ago was this?
[01:15] <mechtech> my client is xchat
[01:15] <Pricey> minuges or hours?
[01:15] <mechtech> about 4 hours I think
[01:15] <mechtech> I have an infant son, so my interet time is sporadic
[01:16] <mechtech> I'm in CA...if that helps
[01:17] <Pricey> mechtech: If I were you, I would join a random channel and test your /ignore by joining with a separate client.
[01:17] <Pricey> mechtech: I will give the user a PM about what you received, but I'm not aware of any technical exploits they could have, or have used to fool your client.
[01:18] <LjL> mechtech, if you could satisfy my curiosity though, do you know if those messages from this user were elicited from anything? did you try to talk to him before that, did you mention anything involving piracy (since he talked about "pirate")...?
[01:18] <LjL> i'm just wondering
[01:22] <mechtech> I was asking in public regarding transmission message: "we have unchoked this peer, but they don't care"
[01:22] <mechtech> not specifying any one user
[01:23] <mechtech> pricey: could I use pigin for that?
[01:23] <Pricey> mechtech: you could make a second connection from within xchat even
[01:24] <rww> Heads up: coleys in #ubuntu seems to think that randomly recommending sudo passwd root is a good idea.
[01:24] <LjL> and it isn't?!
[01:24] <rww> Flannel: thanks :)
[01:24] <mechtech> Pricey: just join another room, or what?
[01:25] <Pricey> mechtech: sure, i don't think there's anything wrong with the network, so was just suggesting you have a play around somewhere with /ignore, like
[01:25] <mechtech> just open another instance of xchat?
[01:25] <Pricey> yep could do that
[01:25] <mechtech> ok
[01:26] <mechtech> new server tab? channel tab? server window? or channel window?
[01:27] <Pricey> mechtech: server tab
[01:27] <mechtech> ok
[01:27] <Pricey> mechtech: and join the same channel with both connections (so same channel beneath both server tabs)
[01:27] <Pricey> something like ##-a0isdsiods
[01:31] <elky> I suspect the person mechtech is referring to is * #ubuntu-offtopic n=DE adsl-75-6-148-56.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net irc.freenode.net Escalade-tor-dor H :0 DE
[01:31] <LjL> yeah
[01:31] <LjL> elky: and don't you suspect anything about another person who joined that same channel and asked something? :)
[01:31] <elky> LjL, i suspected something right away when that happened
[01:31] <elky> but nature and food then proved too tempting :P
[01:32] <LjL> but, that didn't elicit the expected pm response from escalade-tor-dor
[01:40]  * elky pre-emptively puts a bag of popcorn in the microwave.
[01:40] <Pricey> why did the guy that calld ops arrive moments before that?
[01:40] <Pricey> i've heard of blind|melon|chit recently haven't i?
[01:41] <elky> Pricey, you're thinking paddy melon
[01:41] <elky> just got a k thx in pm from gingerbread
[01:41] <Flannel> Pricey: blind melon was in here earlier (12 hours ago?)
[01:44] <Pici> Pricey: I left you a log for my discussoin with blind|melon
[01:45] <Pricey> bah sorry yes Pici, thanks
[01:47] <LjL> Pici: you must have treated him badly, he's pissed :(
[01:47] <Pici> On the contrary, I was most accomodating.
[01:48] <Pici> Is anyone in private message with linuxguy2009?
[01:48] <Pricey> Me.
[01:48] <Pici> Pricey: Okay :)
[01:48] <LjL> Pici: over time, i've learnt that not banning someone doesn't necessarily equate to being accomodating!
[01:48] <LjL> anyway, who's sircrazy too
[01:48] <LjL> it seems to me like we have a bunch of... trolls?
[01:49] <Flannel> Bunch of edgy people, feeding off of each other at the moment, yeah.
[01:49] <LjL> well, but i was thinking more like: bunch of people joining just at the "right" time, and knowing things such as to use ! ops, or to flame linuxguy, or things like that, a moment after joining
[01:51] <Pricey> linuxguy is a bit happier now
[01:51] <Pricey> PM ended nicely
[01:52] <Pici> Vantrax: Howdy, how can we help you today?
[01:52] <LjL> linuxguy was being flamed a bit gratuitously by some people who really had no business with the whole thing
[01:52] <Vantrax> no need for help sorry, it autojoined >.<
[01:52] <Pici> Er? Autojoined here?
[01:52] <Pici> Oh well.
[01:53] <LjL> maybe he was an op in 2003, who knows
[01:53] <LjL> i mean, it's my excuse too!
[01:53] <Pricey> blind|melon|chit on the other hand has gone down the attacking, "abusive op" route with me
[01:56] <mechtech> ok guys...I'm back
[01:56] <Pricey> mechtech: how goes?
[01:56] <what> is this the channel with all the ops in it?
[01:56] <mechtech> apparently, I have no ignore command
[01:57] <Pricey> what: /topic
[01:57] <Pricey> mechtech: Aha! :)
[01:57] <LjL> mechtech: on xchat? i'm pretty sure you do
[01:57] <LjL> i don't really know the syntax, but i know you do
[01:57] <Pricey> odd, blind|melon|chit claiming i'm evading his ignore now
[01:57] <what> my friend told me to come here and tell u that pull_my_beeper is calling me a nigger and keeps pming me
[01:58] <LjL> who's your friend?
[01:58] <mechtech> well...I went to settings>advanced>user commands (where I had never been before) and there is no "ignore"
[01:58] <LjL> oh, what did i just say.
[01:58] <Pricey> what: your friend is telling you to lie?
[01:58] <Pricey> what: or is pull_my_beeper really doing that?
[01:59] <what> can i pste in here?
[01:59] <mechtech> LOL@ pricey
[01:59] <what> paste?
[01:59] <Pricey> !paste | what
[01:59] <elky> it doesnt appear that anyone by that nick is online
[02:00] <mechtech> could anyone tell me how to add ignore to my commands?
[02:00] <LjL> mechtech: "user commands" isn't the client's commands
[02:00] <LjL> you have an /ignore command without it being in "user commands"
[02:00] <mechtech> ok...lemme see
[02:01] <LjL> mechtech: try /ignore nickname!*@* ALL
[02:01] <what> http://paste.ubuntu.com/236267/
[02:01] <elky> oh wait, does what mean Pull_My_Bleep?
[02:01] <what> my friend is on the phone with me he says he cant beleve a ubuntu person is doing that
[02:01] <what> elky, ?
[02:02] <Pici> what: Do you have timestamps?
[02:02] <what>  icant select them
[02:02] <Pricey> what: What client are you using?
[02:03] <what> xchat
[02:03] <Pricey> what: Why does your ctcp response say irssi?
[02:03] <what> i dont know
[02:03] <mechtech> ljl: ok...brb
[02:03] <what> my friend set p this comp
[02:04] <Pricey> what: You may not have a direct connection to freenode in that case. I suggest you check your xchat to make sure it is connecting to irc.ubuntu.com on port 8001.
[02:05] <what> i think i'll just never use irc for support people are mean and i have my friend if i need help
[02:05] <what> bye bye
[02:06] <Pricey> what: Its a shame it has come to that. I wish you well in whatever you get up to from here on.
[02:07] <Pricey> @login
[02:07] <Pricey> @whoami
[02:07] <Pricey> ugh
[02:08] <Pici> mechtech: Is there anything else we can help oyu with?
[02:08] <stew> HI
[02:08] <mechtech> yeah...how can I un-ignore someone?
[02:08] <mechtech> LOL
[02:09] <PriceChild> @login
[02:09] <PriceChild> @whoami
[02:09] <PriceChild> \o/
[02:09] <nalioth> mechtech: depends on your client
[02:09] <mechtech> xchat
[02:09] <mechtech> 2.8.6
[02:09]  * elky starts typing out !nickspam...
[02:10] <LjL> elky: Pricey starts typinh out /kill...
[02:10] <Pricey> elky: It was twice! :) And for a reason! :P Do you expect me to 'ugh' connect a separate client?
[02:10] <elky> :P
[02:13] <mechtech> how to un-ignore?
[02:13] <nalioth> mechtech: what client do you use?
[02:14] <mechtech> xchat 2.8.6
[02:14] <nalioth> mechtech: ask in #xchat, please
[02:14] <mechtech> ok...thanks guys
[02:16] <Pici> So... that was all odd.
[02:18] <LjL> slightly
[02:18] <elky> it smells like tag-teaming to me.
[02:18] <LjL> hmhm
[02:18] <Pici> Yes, haven't had that for a while.
[02:51] <Pricey> thrash-: Have you tried using webchat.freenode.net ?
[02:51] <thrash-> im having problems joining #ubuntu
[02:52] <nalioth> thrash-: again, join #ubuntu-ops and ask them about it
[02:53] <thrash-> hello?
[02:53] <Flannel> nalioth: erm..
[02:53] <elky> nalioth, please recite your bearings./
[02:54] <nalioth> pepsi: can i help you?
[02:54] <pepsi> no
[02:54] <pepsi> can i lurk?
[02:54] <Flannel> pepsi: No
[02:54] <nalioth> then please respect our /topic here, pepsi
[02:54] <pepsi> :/
[02:54] <Pricey> thrash-: You should check out webchat.freenode.net and use that instead of the client you're currently using. That will give you access to #ubuntu.
[02:54] <pepsi> i havent even had a chance to read it yet!
[02:54] <elky> pepsi, it's not fair to people who are here for mediation.
[02:54] <thrash-> for some reason i cant join #ubuntu
[02:54] <Pricey> thrash-: I think its also a slightly nicer client.
[02:55] <Pici> thrash-: Java clients are banned from the channel, but you can use webchat.freenode.net instead (not java.freenode.net)
[02:55] <thrash-> oh
[02:55] <thrash-> okay
[03:01] <Flannel> Is that last thing from sebsebseb sass? or just me taking it that way?
[03:06] <elky> arrogance, yes, considering his help usually isn't helpful. otherwise malicious, i doubt it.
[04:13] <Amaranth> dang, guess I didn't fix my connection issues after all
[04:13] <Amaranth> they seem to have been a lot less severe today though
[05:06]  * genii experimentally sips
[05:11]  * genii hands Flannel a coffee (or a beer if you prefer that instead)
[05:12] <Flannel> Tea?
[05:12] <genii> Can do :)
[05:12]  * genii puts on a kettle
[05:21] <elky> i'm going to make a wild guess that seb wasn't entirely innocent here?
[05:23] <elky> Flannel, care to remove sassy1?
[05:23] <Flannel> Darn that scroll buffer.
[05:24] <Flannel> seb^3 was just being silly re: promotion
[05:24] <Flannel> last I checked, people don't "promote" -es when someone asks about it
[05:24] <elky> seb^3 is good at jumping to conclusions and sparking troubles
[05:24] <Flannel> Yeah
[05:25] <Flannel> Sassy incoming, I imagine.
[05:25] <stew> sassy1 is probaby Magnus-swe
[05:25] <elky> stew, someone you're familiar with?
[05:25] <stew> very much so
[05:26] <stew> gadmintools upstream
[05:26] <stew> thinks since he is an open source code author he is above roles
[05:26] <Flannel> yeah:
[05:26] <Flannel> yeah: 21:24 <Sassy1> Also for US-military forces ? .. Reconsider your move please
[05:26] <stew> elky: what have you coded.  why do you wnat to not let coders talk with their friends?
[05:26] <Flannel> er... thta was odd.
[05:26] <stew> yeah that is him
[05:26] <Flannel> wonder why the double yeah.
[05:26] <Flannel> Did anyone else see that?
[05:26] <stew> he's on a us navy/army kick recently
[05:27] <Flannel> (see me, that is)
[05:27]  * stew PMs
[05:27] <Flannel> I told him if he feels mistreated, he can come here and discuss
[05:27] <elky> stew, well he can stay away from our channels if he's going to be a tosser
[05:27] <Flannel> Seems to think it was a ban.
[05:27] <stew> elky: he's been a tosser in all these channels for a half a dozen years
[05:28] <Flannel> (and is effectively threatening to evade)
[05:29] <stew> yeah, he'll evade
[05:29] <stew> i've not really figure out how to get to him
[05:29] <stew> i've been trying for years
[05:29] <elky> stew, you probably wont, but standing back is only going to encourage others
[05:30] <stew> what do you mean by standing back?
[05:31]  * genii waits for someone from ice.net to show up and start making trouble now
[05:31] <elky> stew, standing back and letting him continue without reprimand
[05:32] <stew> elky: if i were you i'd ban him on site yeah
[05:35] <stew> i've tried all manner of appealing to his intellect, to his sense of doing good
[05:35] <stew> i've threatened him
[05:35] <stew> banned him from a dozen or so channels
[05:36] <stew> written 3 of his isps
[05:36] <stew> don't know how to get through to this one
[05:36] <elky> are these concurrent isps?
[05:36] <stew> yeah
[05:36] <elky> which?
[05:37] <stew> well you see his current one
[07:08] <ikonia> I'm done with blind|melon|chat - he's getting banned from #ubuntu now
[07:09] <ikonia> after all the crap yesterday and the abuse in pm - I lifted the ban, he tells me I'm on ignore and I can stick my apology up my fucking ass - as he won't be back
[07:09] <ikonia> he comes back and starts making an issue out of being accidently kicked in the channel again
[07:09] <ikonia> this guy can stay out
[07:10] <ikonia> he's muted in the channel now with +b - not a mute
[07:10] <ikonia> (so others are aware)
[07:12] <bazhang> just bad timing I would suggest; I saw him in another channel prior to the incident and he was having some short-temper/blunt responses to those trying to help him
[07:12] <ikonia> read the full back scroll now and it is unaceptable from him
[07:12] <ikonia> bazhang: he is constantly like that - it is not bad timing
[07:12] <ikonia> bazhang: the reason I got him confused he he was the one who reported paddy_melon in here (no problem there) but caused almost as much of an issue as paddy_melon when he was in here
[07:12] <bazhang> accidental kicks bans happen sometimes ikonia , most do not react accordingly
[07:13] <ikonia> it was an accident, %100 my fault, but he's using it as an excuse to be rude and feed people in the channel nonsense
[07:13] <bazhang> ikonia, I concur. my meaning was worse than his usual
[07:14] <ikonia> I put on my best polite hat in the channel and pm to him to express how sorry I was, and I know pici did the same and he didn't want an apologiy he just wanted an excuse to slate the channel/be rude
[07:14] <bazhang> I noticed his behaviour as being off long before this all took place, not only just prior, but earlier as well
[07:14] <ikonia> I ignored it and the ban was lifted, then he's doing it again in the channel, telling people to not use the ops as they will get kicked
[07:14] <ikonia> he knows it was an accident - it's just an excuse / attempt to provoke - so now he's out until he can get a grip on it
[07:15] <ikonia> plus telling people to shove stuff up their fucking ass isn't needed
[07:15] <bazhang> surely that is an overreaction/escalation
[07:15] <ikonia> no
[07:15] <ikonia> that's his atttiude
[07:16] <ikonia> or do you mean me banning him ?
[07:16] <bazhang> no, I mean his going all out with the language etc.
[07:18] <bazhang> at any rate, not meaning to interfere; just wanted to give my two cents
[07:20] <ikonia> bazhang: not at all,
[08:04] <mac_v> hi... can the ops add ubottu to #ayatana? currently it only has ubuntulog
[08:05] <nalioth> ubottu tell mac_v about botclone
[08:08] <mac_v> nalioth: but I'm not an op at #ayatana ... i was wondering if Pici or any other op could add it ...
[08:08] <nalioth> mac_v: ubottu is for Ubuntu channels
[08:09] <mac_v> nalioth: ah... i guess the ubuntulog presence had me misguided... nevermind
[08:09] <mac_v> thanx
[08:10] <nalioth> mac_v: you are welcome to clone it there
[08:12] <mac_v> nalioth: the botclone link with ubottu gave redirects to the lp> https://code.launchpad.net/~tsimpson/ubuntu-bots/tweak , I have done bot clone before ? could you give me another link? which has instructions?
[08:12] <mac_v> i have not*
[08:13] <Myrtti> hmmm
[08:14] <Myrtti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ayatana so I remembered correctly
[08:14] <Myrtti> but yeah, ubottu clone would probably serve best
[08:15] <Myrtti> mac_v: basically it's a supybot, with the additions
[08:15] <Myrtti> supybot instructions should work 100%
[08:15]  * mac_v goolges
[08:16]  * mac_v googles*
[08:18] <jussi01> #supybot is also useful ;)
[08:18] <mac_v> ah... :)
[08:19] <mac_v> but can a non-op add a bot?
[08:19] <Myrtti> sure, why not?
[08:20] <mac_v> ok.... didnt know that... :)
[08:20] <mac_v> thanx guys...
[08:20] <Myrtti> technically it's an irc client that is operated by programmable logic instead of a person
[08:20] <Myrtti> and you yourself can join channels, no?
[08:20] <Myrtti> :-)
[08:20] <Myrtti> of course it's nice to ask the operators for a permission first
[08:21] <Myrtti> for example #ubuntu main channels have a strict policy on bots
[08:21] <mac_v> Myrtti: several others were wondering how to add , and kept wondering that was it because we dont have permissions... so i was asking here its nice to know though...
[08:23] <Myrtti> each bot of course has their owners
[08:23] <Myrtti> you can't add *ubottu* the bot, but you can add *a* bot
[08:25] <mac_v> Myrtti: ah... thats what i was looking for, ;p
[08:25] <mac_v> ... Pici hangs out over there... so maybe he could confirm if ubottu can/cannot be added , does ayatana not qualify as an ubuntu channel?
[08:33] <jussi01> mac_v: ubottuis currently overloaded, but if it does qualify as ubuntu, then ubot2 or ubot3 may be suitable. for what purpose do you need it?
[08:34] <mac_v> jussi01: just for bug #  , since we are used to just listing the bug numbers , and not the titles .
[08:34] <mac_v> do those bots do that?
[08:35] <jussi01> nalioth: is ubot3 doing bug snarfing?
[08:35] <nalioth> jussi01: i don't think so
[08:35] <nalioth> if you mean "does it spit out bugs when you say b u g ######", no, i don't think it does
[08:36] <mac_v> yeah "to spit out the bugs"
[08:36] <jussi01> ok, dunno if ubot2 is doing that either then, but youll need to check with jpds.
[08:37] <mac_v> hehe... dont throw me out guys... i'll wait for jpds or Pici to confirm this
[08:42] <jussi01> Well Im off for lunch. see you all later
[08:52] <christel> jussi01: bit of an early lunch m'dear?
[08:59] <topyli> i often eat lunch well before noon, because i'm a bad breakfast eater
[09:06] <jpds> mac_v: That should do it.
[09:18] <mac_v> \o/ thanx jpds
[10:21] <jussi01> christel: nah, normal here - we usually eat lunch ~11 ish
[10:23] <elky> christel, can you take a look in -women and see if these two seem familiar to you at all.
[10:24] <christel> certainly, who am i looking for?
[10:24] <blindmelonchitli> You have been kicked from #ubuntu by ikonia (when you can stop giving out your attitude to others you can rejoin the channel) <- Someone care to explain the meaning of this, being that I was idle for three hours when I came back and saw it?
[10:24] <blindmelonchitli> Or is this just ikonia doing his usual ban first, ask questions later routine?
[10:26] <Mez>  /lastlog Mez
[10:27] <blindmelonchitli> Nothing eh? First he kicks me by "accident," now he's not even trying to hide it any more. And who do I report it to, the IRCC? With which he has multiple friends sitting in positions?
[10:28] <jussi01> !appeals | blindmelonchitli
[10:28] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: I've already tried that route and received no reply. Of course I've come here many times and also received no help whatsoever, now I'm being arbitrarily kicked by another power abusing op.
[10:29] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: I'd like to know why.
[10:29] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: The IRCC tries to deal with complaints in a fair and open manner
[10:29] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: I havent seen any mail from you on the IRCC list
[10:30] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: I'm guessing not, because the last e-mails I sent were under different names and for different issues. Because of the abusiveness of the ops here I assumed that this particular issue would be ignored, particularly when Pici is a sitting member and is "buddies" with ikonia.
[10:30] <blindmelonchitli> Sure, I could report it to the IRCC, so they can sweep it under the rug and ignore it.
[10:31] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: I think this can be sorted out, so please, bring your complaint to us, and lets be open about it. If a member of the IRCC is involved with the issue, then they will step back and let the rest of the council deal with it
[10:31] <christel> elky: got anything from before i joined?
[10:32] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: but please, I havent seen the situation yet, so if you could email the IRCC list with full details, including logs, we can have a look for you.
[10:32] <elky> christel, the xim_ twit joined and said he was there to pick up chicks :(
[10:33] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: we attempt to be fair and impartial, and I will attempt to make sure that is the case here. However, we need to handle these things in a calm and clear way, so I ask that you are concise and to the point
[10:34] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: There's that word, "attempt." I'm already being arbitrarily kicked out of the channel whenever ikonia's hitting that time of the month, where's the calmness and clearness in that? You want me to follow a procedure but you're not even following your own.
[10:35] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: where am I not following proceedure?
[10:35] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: I don't know, by allowing ikonia to kick anyone he doesn't like out of an official support channel maybe? Twice in one day?
[10:36] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: You have asked to escalate this to the next level, I am telling you how tom do that.
[10:36] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: Indulge me, what can I -expect- to happen if I do escalate it to "the next level?"
[10:36] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: thats your allegation, and so, just as you would in a normal way, if you dont agree with the actions of the police, you take it to the court. so bring it tous so we can have a look.
[10:37] <elky> blindmelonchitli, do you reject all escalations procedures (ie, call centers) just because supervisors know and work alongside their subordinates?
[10:38] <blindmelonchitli> elky: No, much like call centers I know that I'm never going to reach someone who could actually solve my problem here, and what's worse, if I -did- escalate it, nothing would happen anyway. You've all got each other's back and the IRCC members are active participants in the channel.
[10:38] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: Have you ever heard the term "corrupt police officer?"
[10:38] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: Please, reserve your judgement until you bring it to us - do not make wild accusations until you have some substance to back them up with.
[10:39] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: I have two unnecessary kicks from a support channel, what has ikonia got?
[10:39] <blindmelonchitli> A +o, unfortunately for me, apparently.
[10:39] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: yes. and that is why you escalate to us. just as you would go to a court with that police officer.
[10:39] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: Until you do that escalation, there is little I or any of the IRCC can do.
[10:40] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: Well back to the inconvenient question that you didn't answer yet -- what can I -expect- to happen if I do follow this song and dance procedure?
[10:40] <blindmelonchitli> Anything?
[10:41] <elky> blindmelonchitli, jussi is not the only one on the council, he cannot speak for all the members, so that is not a fair question to ask.
[10:41] <blindmelonchitli> Or can I expect ikonia to just make up some crap in a fake log, all of you to nod your heads and say "yes, he sure deserved that?"
[10:41] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: if the operator was in the wrong, you can expect an apology and a full reinstatement of you access to where you were banned.
[10:41] <elky> blindmelonchitli, all our logs are stored where only the canonical sysadmin team can access them
[10:41] <elky> !logs
[10:41] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: I'm not banned, I was just kicked. I suspect that was so ikonia wouldn't have any difficult questions to answer.
[10:42] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: please, bring it to us through the appeals proccess so we can deal with this in a calm, clear and open manner.
[10:42] <blindmelonchitli> elky: Perhaps a naive question, those logs don't include private messages do they?
[10:42] <elky> blindmelonchitli, i should hope not.
[10:43] <blindmelonchitli> elky: Ahh. So if, say, there was a discussion of why I was banned between two members in private, an IRC op and an IRCC member say, that wouldn't be recorded, yes?
[10:43] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: and the escalation process is not a hard one, it is a simple as writing a clear eamil with your side of the story, so we can evaluate it.
[10:44] <elky> i hope not, because some of these other ops and ircc people have been told my address and phone number before, i'd really hate to see that in the logs.
[10:44] <blindmelonchitli> elky: I'd imagine ikonia has some things he'd rather not show up in the logs either.
[10:44] <elky> blindmelonchitli, i'm sure you have said things you dont want in logs either.
[10:44] <blindmelonchitli> elky: The difference is that I'll admit to them.
[10:45] <blindmelonchitli> elky: Oh yes, and the other difference is that I don't have a +o to arbitrarily kick people whenever my mood's off.
[10:45] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: once again, please bring it officially to the IRCC, then we can take a look at it.
[10:45] <blindmelonchitli> jussi01: And beyond looking at it?
[10:46] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: and after looking at it we can decide on a course of action.
[10:46] <elky> blindmelonchitli, your attitude here is most distasteful. youv'e been told more times than I have digits to follow a procedure and what you are saying here will be considered as indication of character.
[10:46] <blindmelonchitli> elky: So it's already starting. I can tell how seriously this "complaint" to the IRCC is going to be taken already.
[10:47] <elky> blindmelonchitli, it's not going to be able to be taken any way if you don't care enough to follow the procedure.
[10:47] <elky> that's not for lack of want. it is a procedure. you need to follow it.
[10:48] <blindmelonchitli> elky: And you're sure that it's not going to be ignored because of my "distasteful attitude?" Which, I might add, is only the result of being pushed around by you people to the point that I've come here to complain about it?
[10:48] <blindmelonchitli> I didn't have a problem before ikonia kicked me twice.
[10:50] <elky> blindmelonchitli, take responsibility for your own behaviour. Ikonia has not *forced* you to do anything here. You are a sentinent being.
[10:50] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: Please, once again, bring it to the council and lets see what we can do about it.
[10:51] <blindmelonchitli> elky: Tell me what behaviour that I got kicked for and I'll take responsibility for it.
[10:51] <elky> blindmelonchitli, i was not there. that's why you need to bring it to appeals so you can show me the evidence.
[10:51] <blindmelonchitli> elky: I already pasted the evidence when I joined the channel.
[10:52] <blindmelonchitli> elky: I've also been told that anything that I paste to the IRCC will be considered "hearsay"
[10:52] <elky> blindmelonchitli, i dont have time to read up there. i need it in my inbox.
[10:52] <jussi01> blindmelonchitli: bring it to the IRCC as a official complaint and we can then deal with it.
[10:52] <elky> blindmelonchitli, we have irc logs that are impartial. if we can match what you say to those logs, then we can see the circumstances.
[10:53] <elky> jussi01, i have to run off to a meeting now, sorry :(
[10:53] <elky> blindmelonchitli, please report it officially through the proceedure jussi has said dozens of times tonight so i can help you
[10:56] <blindmelonchitli> If I thought you really wanted to help I might consider it. I'm a realist, I know how things work. Friends in the right places, you get to do whatever you want, blank check. Well, if ikonia has a problem with me complaining about him arbitrarily kicking me out of the channel maybe he shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
[10:57] <blindmelonchitli> Tell your "friend" I said hello.
[10:57] <elky> oh for crying out loud.
[10:57] <jussi01> right...
[11:46] <bazhang> logs are updated every hour? daily?
[11:49] <elky> i think closer to hourly
[11:49] <bazhang> thanks
[12:21] <blind|melon|chit> It would seem that after filing a complaint to the IRCC I'm now, coincidentally, banned from #ubuntu completely. I assume that would be ikonia's doing?
[12:21] <bazhang> blind|melon|chit, hi
[12:22] <blind|melon|chit> I'm waiting.
[12:22] <blind|melon|chit> I've done nothing to be banned from the channel, so let's hear an explanation.
[12:23] <bazhang> blind|melon|chit, you were removed by accident
[12:23] <blind|melon|chit> bazhang: Twice?
[12:23] <blind|melon|chit> bazhang: Make that three times as I'm now currently banned
[12:23] <blind|melon|chit> All times by ikonia, no less.
[12:24] <blind|melon|chit> This is what I get for following your "procedures" is it?
[12:26] <blind|melon|chit> No one has an answer for that one, eh? Just going to let him push me around and abuse his +o at will I assume? Real responsible of you, I can see why the IRCC are so well respected.
[12:27] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: firstly, I want to ask you to please stop throwning accusations around, with nothing to back them up.
[12:28] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Who banned me from the channel?
[12:28] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Check and tell me who banned me.
[12:29] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: As for your "nothing to back them up" I already sent an e-mail to the IRC council, it's not my fault if Canonical's servers aren't relaying your mail
[12:30] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Checked yet?
[12:30] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: secondly, Demanding things in the way you are currently doing does not make it easy for people to help you out. I want to help, but you insist on throwing wild accusations.
[12:31] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Who banned me from the channel?
[12:31] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Why are you refusing to answer a simple question?
[12:32] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: I am working at the same time, its sometimes hard to get to everything straight off.
[12:33] <jussi01> Now, if you look up how to use IRC I think you will find that you can list the bans in #ubuntu and check for yourself
[12:33] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: You never intended to respond to this complaint in the first place, did you?
[12:34] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: I certainly do intend to respond to it. Unfortunately I havent received the complaint yet. If you prefer, you can forward it directly to me and I will put it o the council list.
[12:35] <blind|melon|chit> I've just sent it again, under a different e-mail address. I'm guessing it's going to be ignored from that one too, but hey, I'm following your "procedure." The one I got banned for following.
[12:36] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: my email is my irc nick at ubuntu dot com - feel free to forward to me also. i apologise for the technical issues.
[12:37] <blind|melon|chit> By the way, I just checked the ban list, since you were unwilling to actually do it yourself. And what a surprise, ikonia is the one that banned me. What a COLOSSAL surprise.
[12:37] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: I think you will find the ban is from before the conversation we had this morning.
[12:37] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: So why have I been able to visit the channel without issue until now?
[12:37] <blind|melon|chit> Where's the answers, hmm? Where's the accountability?
[12:38] <blind|melon|chit> There is none.
[12:38] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: because you have been using a dfifferent nick from the banned one.
[12:38] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Then explain why my nick was banned in the first place.
[12:39] <blind|melon|chit> Better yet, let's hear from the power-nazi himself. Care to step up and explain yourself ikonia?
[12:39] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: that is what the hearing from the IRC council is for. please let us look at that and the evidence and get back to you.
[12:39] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: And how does that help me in the meantime?
[12:39] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: In fact what guarantee is there that it will help me at all?
[12:40] <blind|melon|chit> ikonia banned me from the channel when i was idle for three hours. Other ops were in the channel -- if I did something that bad they could have banned me much, much earlier.
[12:40] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: just like in the police/court case there is a period of waiting until justice - whichever decision is made is served.
[12:40] <blind|melon|chit> But no, it was ikonia alright, three or four hours after the fact.
[12:40] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Stop comparing yourself to the police. The police are actually accountable for their actions, ikonia is not.
[12:41] <elky> Please do not compare a mere irc removal to the massive loss of life that political regime caused.
[12:41] <blind|melon|chit> elky: And what the hell are you talking about exactly?
[12:41] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: he is accountable to the IRC council, and the IRC council to the CC. Therefore, we will invstigate and get back to you.
[12:41] <elky> blind|melon|chit, you called someone a nazi. That sickens me.
[12:42] <blind|melon|chit> elky: Well that's a shame. People censoring me for no palpable reason sickens me, but I have to put up with it.
[12:43] <elky> blind|melon|chit, censorship would be if you were unable to speak *anywhere*. Censorship alone does not compare to death/torture camps or genocide.
[12:43] <Daviey> Wouldn't it be really good to see some all round, grown up resolutions.. Less point scoring, no insults.. but constructive chat, all round.
[12:43] <blind|melon|chit> Daviey: Yes, it would be nice. Unfortunately I don't have that option available because IKONIA BANNED ME FROM THE CHANNEL.\
[12:44] <blind|melon|chit> elky: All a matter of perspective. You're free to your opinion, I'm free to mine.
[12:44] <Daviey> blind|melon|chit: you aren't helping things really.  I can see you are angry, and perhaps you have reason to be.  But shouting and using insults, really isn't constructive
[12:44] <elky> blind|melon|chit, if you're free to yours, then censorship is really not an appropriate descriptor.
[12:44] <gnomefreak> CoC explains it or is it the rulesas i recall.
[12:45] <blind|melon|chit> elky: Ahh, so now you're coming out with the insults too, eh? I can see you'll be backing ikonia from here on in.
[12:45] <elky> gnomefreak, neither encourage harassment.
[12:45] <blind|melon|chit> Daviey: I followed the official procedure recommended here and I'm banned from the channel as of this morning.
[12:46] <gnomefreak> elky: no but they DO NOT encourage it, says "dont do it" (paraphrase)
[12:46] <elky> blind|melon|chit, if you insist on striking down everyone who is trying to help you before they get the chance, don't be surprised if there's nobody left to actually enact the help.
[12:46] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: once again. It seems that the email has not arrived and there is some issue with the list. As the list admin is not available, could I please ask you to send the email to me and I will make sure it reaches the other council members.
[12:46] <blind|melon|chit> elky: Don't worry, I know whose side you're on, I don't expect any help from you.
[12:46] <bazhang> Pricey, ping
[12:46] <elky> blind|melon|chit, i dont even know which side i'm on yet, so i fail to believe that you could possibly know.
[12:47] <blind|melon|chit> elky: No, you just fail. And if you don't have anything constructive to add to the "discussion" then why are -you- speaking to me, hmm?
[12:47] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: ok, thank you, I have now received it. If you could please part the channel until we have an opportunity to review your case. we will respond via email.
[12:48] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Really now? I've heard that one before. I suppose in the meantime ikonia gets to gloat and polish off his +o for when he arbitrarily bans me again.
[12:49] <elky> blind|melon|chit, quit being a bully to people who are trying to help you.
[12:49] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: now now, you should know better by now than to throw around accusations like that.
[12:49] <blind|melon|chit> elky: Quit bullying people who need help.
[12:49] <jussi01> blind|melon|chit: as I said, please part the channel while we take a look at it.
[12:50] <blind|melon|chit> jussi01: Yeah yeah, I know the drill, leave the room so that you can sweep it under the rug, I know how things work around here.
[12:51] <elky> for crying out loud. does the community council even *realise* we get this amount of absolute hostility?
[12:52] <gnomefreak> did he/she do anything to help himself?
[12:52] <ikonia> jussi01: you there
[12:52] <ikonia> jussi01: apologies for missing that show, I've just got back from a meeting
[12:53] <jussi01> ikonia: pm me please
[12:53] <ikonia> I removed him from the channel because he was telling people not to use the ops comment
[12:53] <ikonia> sure
[12:55] <elky> gnomefreak, emailed us something that appears to be missing some part of the story
[12:55] <gnomefreak> elky: thanks
[12:56] <Pici> Ugh. Lots of stuff in my away log. Time to read some scrollback.
[13:00]  * elky looks at -uk and shudders
[13:01] <elky> "the nakedcomputers site promotes nakedness" just... ugh
[13:02] <bazhang> finally got mina pointed to #ubuntu-ir
[13:16] <Pricey> bazhang: pong
[13:22] <bazhang> Pricey, user hthd came into #ubuntu yesterday and immediately used the f-bomb with your name, took him to PM and he continued so removed / banned him
[13:22] <bazhang> * [hthd] (n=dasd@60.54.179.54): saSASD
[13:23] <bazhang> seems perhaps he was ban evading/k-line evading
[13:24] <bazhang> was going to clear ban list, just wondered if he is an issue generally
[13:25] <bazhang> err not the entire ban list (just my entries)
[13:26] <Pricey> bazhang: thanks for the heads up
[13:27] <bazhang> okay
[14:11] <jussi01> Jost a reminder all to look at and comment on this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[14:11] <bazhang> how could we have missed :)
[14:14] <Pici> Er. no,.
[14:15] <jussi01> bazhang: I havent had many comments, so Id appreciat opinions
[14:15] <bazhang> jussi01, okay, sorry for the joking
[14:19] <Pici> jussi01: do you have a moment for a bot question?
[14:26] <bazhang> checked that link; was there something other than the +v issue we should give an opinion on? jussi01
[14:27] <jussi01> bazhang: all the issues listed there...
[14:27] <jussi01> bazhang: scope of the irc team
[14:27] <jussi01> bazhang: and the implementation of and use of +v
[14:27] <ikonia> jussi01: how do you want feedback, attend the meeting, or mail ?
[14:27] <bazhang> jussi01, eligibility then
[14:27] <jussi01> ikonia: on the wiki and in the meeting
[14:28] <ikonia> ooh, on the wik direct, cool
[14:28] <jussi01> bazhang: read it. all the info is there
[14:28] <ikonia> I meant to ask last night when you first posted
[14:28] <bazhang> jussi01, I did, twice; was asking for clarification
[14:28] <ikonia> jussi01: did you unban blind|melon
[14:29] <jussi01> no.
[14:29] <jussi01> why?
[14:29] <ikonia> 14:25 <blind|melon|chit> By the way, I'm back in Ubuntu now. So much for your pathetic, unjustified IP ban,
[14:29] <ikonia> (I keep getting pm'd by him)
[14:29] <ikonia> I've not responded/instigated anything
[14:29] <ikonia> initiated sorry
[14:29] <jussi01> ok, just dont respon, but thanks.
[14:44] <gnomefreak> im adding it
[14:47] <gnomefreak> can someone add asac to bot again. its giving him a wrong hostmask error when using @login
[14:48] <bazhang> hehe
[14:48] <gnomefreak> that last one was a game :)
[14:48] <gnomefreak> i cant remember what it is
[15:05] <blind|melon|chit> Well then, I guess I don't need to wait for the IRCC after all! Looks like I can get in the channel even despite being banned for no reason. Again. It's always a good thing when you can solve your own problems rather than wait for people who don't care to solve them for you, isn't it?
[15:06] <blind|melon|chit> Thanks ever so much for all of your "help" folks. Especially you, ikonia. Your abuse of power has given me good enough reason to change identities so that you can no longer exact your brand of "justice" any more.
[15:10] <elky> whoever just did that, you rock.
[15:15] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[15:15] <ikonia> funny elky
[15:18] <bazhang> ixbal, how may we help you
[15:21] <ixbal> oh, i don't need help. i'm doing just fine.
[15:21] <bazhang> ixbal, please dont idle here if you have no immediate issues, thanks
[15:22] <ixbal> oh, i do have an immediate issue. i solved it though, it's all good.
[15:23] <elky> ixbal, we prefer that people who have to come here to discuss issues to not feel like they're being told off in front of an audience of peers.
[15:24] <Pici> ixbal: This is #ubuntu-ops, do you have an issue? See /topic for details as well.
[15:24] <ixbal> Pici: i have a feeling you're responsible for my particular issue, but hey...we'll let it slide, i found my own solution like i said
[15:24] <ixbal> elky: sorry, am i telling someone off?
[15:25] <Pici> ixbal: Er? I am?
[15:25] <elky> ixbal, not at all. however sometimes we have to tell people off for their behaviour, and it's not nice for them to feel like they have other chatters watching them
[15:25] <ixbal> Pici: oh yes. hence why i wouldn't ask you for asssistance, though i do appreciate the attention.
[15:28] <ixbal> elky: if you're uncomfortable with criticizing people behind their backs, perhaps you should do it in private messages
[15:28] <ikonia> ixbal: what do you want in this channel ?
[15:28] <elky> ixbal, you seem to be twisting my words around. please don't be so rude.
[15:29] <ixbal> ikonia: ahh, i figured you'd pipe up sooner or later. how's it going, ikonia
[15:29] <ikonia> !staff | ixbal is blind|melon kline dodging
[15:29] <bazhang> ?
[15:30] <ixbal> ?
[15:30] <ixbal> what the hell is a kline
[15:30] <bazhang> uhm
[15:30] <elky> ixbal, the thing that Freenode Staff made you depart on your rogers connection.
[15:30] <ikonia> ixbal: what do you want in this channel
[15:31] <ixbal> elky: my rogers connection? who's paying the bill on that one, i'm with comcast
[15:31] <ixbal> ikonia: just to see the inner workings of the whole ubuntu irc community. curiousity.
[15:32] <ikonia> ixbal: this channel has a no idle policy so please leave unless you have something you need from this channel
[15:32] <ixbal> ikonia: now what do you  want with me, and why are you accusing me of being someone else?
[15:32] <Mamarok> !idle | ixbal
[15:32] <bazhang> ixbal, please respect the channel topic
[15:32] <ixbal> i'm not idling, i'm looking for answers to baseless accusations.
[15:32] <Pici> ixbal: This channel is logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ if you want to see how we operate, but we ask that you not idle in the channel needlessly.
[15:33] <ixbal> Pici: as i said i'm not idling. i want to know why i'm being treated rudely by one of your ops for no reason, why i'm being told that i'm someone i'm not.
[15:33] <ikonia> ixbal: ok - your not him, my apologies
[15:33] <Pici> ixbal: Well who are you then?
[15:33] <ikonia> is there anything else ?
[15:33] <ixbal> ikonia: i take it you have a personal issue with this "person?"
[15:33] <ikonia> nope
[15:33] <ixbal> Pici: why is my identity any of your business?
[15:34] <ikonia> ixbal: and if your not him, thats not your concern, is there anything else you need ?
[15:34] <stew> ixbal: please see PM.  it seems there is confuse that perhaps I can help with?
[15:34] <Pici> stew: thank you.
[15:34] <ikonia> thanks
[15:35] <ixbal> ikonia: you're sure about that, are you? strictly professional?
[15:35] <ikonia> ixbal: I'm not discussing other people with you. If you have nothing else, please leave the channel
[15:35] <ixbal> ikonia: you're rather pushy are't you? everyone else in here is polite, someone piss in your corn flakes this morning?
[15:36] <ikonia> ixbal: please leave the channel if you have nothing you need from the operators team
[15:39] <bazhang> dont know why they target ikonia , I'm much meaner
[15:40] <Pici> stew: Thanks for trying
[15:40] <Mamarok> bazhang: you shouldn't
[15:40] <genii> It's the curtness of replies, I suspect.
[15:40] <elky> bazhang, because ikonia is harder to break.
[15:41] <stew> well that should be the last we see of that guy for a while!
[15:41] <stew> (ephasis on should)
[15:41] <elky> heh
[15:42] <bazhang> thanks stew
[15:42] <elky> he can come back and blend in all he wants. i somehow doubt he'll succeed though.
[15:43] <jussi01> stew: I love you, you make my world so much better.
[15:43] <Pici> Well, stew is the perfect guy :P
[15:43] <stew> :)
[15:43] <elky> ikonia, for the record, what was it he said to you in PM that made you remove him
[15:44] <stew> jussi01: that's a nice compliment, thanks,  I'm happy i can help :)
[15:44]  * jussi01 wants to have a party now...
[15:48] <ikonia> elky: stick it up your fucking ass, and the like
[15:48] <ikonia> elky: logs available
[15:48] <ikonia> and pici
[15:48] <ikonia> he was also telling people in #ubuntu earlier that don't talk to the ops they are corrupt etc etc, which is why I pub +b on him today as it's clear he just wants to cause an issue
[15:49] <elky> ikonia, ok, this is of course, all stuff he omitted.
[15:49] <ikonia> of course
[15:49] <ikonia> elky: he was the guy who reported paddy_Melons and bernaard then sat in here baiting them while we tried to clam them down
[15:49] <ikonia> the guy who refused to leave
[15:50] <elky> ah
[15:50] <jussi01> hehe, I just read this by itsself: [17:48:00] <ikonia> elky: stick it up your fucking ass, and the like
[15:50] <elky> jussi01, haha
[15:50] <ikonia> jussi01: that was a private converation, no need to post it in here ;)
[15:50] <Pici> :O
[15:50] <ikonia> apologies, naughty
[15:50] <bazhang> haha
[15:50] <jussi01> ikonia: you just said that...
[15:50] <elky> ikonia, do the hostmasks and so forth match up?
[15:51] <ikonia> elky: no, but many other things did
[15:52] <Pici> Thats why he kept going on about ikonia asking him to not join -ops, etc.
[15:52] <elky> do you have time to map the stuff out so it makes sense to us?
[15:52] <Pici> But I'm supposed to be sitting out because somehow I'm involved. So I will ;)
[15:53] <ikonia> elky: of course
[15:53] <ikonia> Pici: you're corrupt anyway
[15:54] <ikonia> elky: what format would you like ?
[15:54] <Pici> ikonia: interpretive dance
[15:54] <ikonia> I'll get coryographing
[15:57] <Pici> ikonia: Good timing
[15:59] <elky> and i should start bedographing
[15:59] <jussi01> elky: blanket drill?
[16:00] <elky> jussi01, yup
[16:04] <jussi01> and with the realisation I am starting to sound like a broken record, please all have a look at and comment on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[16:04] <jussi01> Its fine to comment on the wiki in the spaces provided.
[16:05] <jussi01> This is going to be discussed at the IRCC meeting on sunday, so would be nice to have as much input as possible
[16:05] <ikonia> jussi01: I'll be there
[16:05] <Mamarok> what time is that meeting again?
[16:05] <jussi01> Also, the rest of the agenda for the meeting is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda - feel free to add things if you feel necessary
[16:05]  * Mamarok has early morning in memory
[16:06] <genii> jussi01: Do you have to be a member of IRC Team ?
[16:06] <jussi01> Mamarok: 0700 utc
[16:06] <jussi01> genii: certainly not
[16:06] <ikonia> genii: they are all corrupt anyway
[16:06]  * ikonia maps a short cut key for that
[16:06] <genii> Ah, OK. I think I've been on the pending approval list for...dunno exactly how long now
[16:06] <ikonia> genii: me too
[16:07] <ikonia> I've taken the hint
[16:07] <genii> Heh
[16:07] <jussi01> genii: ikonia thats precisely why the first item on the proposal page is there
[16:07] <ikonia> jussi01: I'm only teasing !
[16:08]  * jussi01 slaps ikonia around with a large trout
[16:08] <Mamarok> which would be a salmon, then
[16:08]  * Mamarok hides
[16:08] <jussi01> ikonia: btw, if you havent already, you can probably remve blind melons ban in #u
[16:09]  * jussi01 throws a chunk of sloppy salmon at Mamarok
[16:09] <Mamarok> ouch, that hurt :(
[16:14] <ikonia> ahh yes
[16:16] <Pici> jussi01: added my comments.
[16:16] <jussi01> nice, thanks
[16:17] <Pici> By the way, does anyone know how to subscribe to an entire subsection of the wiki, instead of just subscribing to individual pages?
[16:20] <nhandler> Pici: Use a Regex, like MOTU/.*
[16:21] <Pici> nhandler: Ahh.. I didn't even realize that they were listed like that in user preferences.  I was just clicking the 'subscribe' button on each page
[16:21]  * Pici fixes
[16:22] <nhandler> Pici: Using a regex like that also has the benefit of subscribing you to future pages that might be created that match that regex
[16:28] <jussi01> oooh, its an nhandler
[16:37] <TwoToneSpirit> Hello ops.  I was banned from #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu+1 last night because my connection was unstable.  I think it was due to a thunderstorm.  Can I be unbanned?
[16:37] <ikonia> TwoToneSpirit: sure
[16:37] <Pici> surely.
[16:38] <ikonia> TwoToneSpirit: all done
[16:38] <Pici> Done in -offtopic as well.
[16:38] <TwoToneSpirit> Thanks ikonia :-)
[16:38] <ikonia> thanks Pici
[16:38] <TwoToneSpirit> Thanks pici :-)
[16:39] <TwoToneSpirit> So this is the channel where the ops of each ubuntu channel hang out obviously?  What do you all talk about in here?  Have you like personally met the Koala?
[16:42] <jussi01> TwoToneSpirit: this sint really  a chat channel. read the topic :)
[16:42] <jussi01> also
[16:43] <jussi01> !idle | TwoToneSpirit
[16:44] <TwoToneSpirit> Ahh, I see.  Well thank you for briefly descending from Mt. Olympus to assist a mere mortal.  :-)  See you around.
[16:50] <mneptok> ikonia: re: IRCC meeting ... i'm traveling to Santa Fe on Sunday, and cannot attend.
[16:51] <jussi01> to santa fe or in a santa fe?
[16:51] <jussi01> :P
[16:53] <jussi01> mneptok: be sure to leave your comments on the wiki then
[17:01] <ikonia> mneptok: represent
[17:15] <jussi01> ikonia: pm
[17:30]  * Pici sighs
[18:56] <Gary> sorry for that nicksetup spam, I should have manually typed it (due to "the freenode way" bit at the end)
[18:56] <Pici> *gasp*
[18:58] <jussi01> Gary: you suck :P
[18:59] <Gary> jussi01: very well they say
[19:04] <Pici> Ugh, what is it with people today?
[19:05] <jussi01> Pici: ????
[19:06] <Pici> jussi01: I get called big brother because I address an IRC related issue in #kubuntu
[19:07] <Pici> Well, 'bog brother', but I think that was the intention :P
[19:17] <ikonia> Pici: your having my week from last week
[19:19] <topyli> hrm. can we conclude that sebsebseb is a troll? :\
[19:20] <Pici> Hes a misguided helper at times.
[19:20] <topyli> he's "educating" people with strange ideas about free software, and afaik he should know better
[19:20] <Pici> topyli: Where? -ot?
[19:20] <topyli> yes
[19:22] <topyli> Pici: i'm not suggesting we should remove him. just wondering :)
[19:24] <Pici> topyli: me either.
[19:27] <ikonia> prod him
[19:28] <ikonia> he normally responds
[19:28] <Pici> topyli was prodding him in -ot
[19:28] <ikonia> ahh
[20:09] <Pici> ikonia: to be fair, freenode.net doesn't really list all of the channels.
[20:09] <ikonia> does tell you how to use it
[20:21] <ikonia> @bansearch coleys
[20:22] <Pici> ikonia: I believe Flannel gave the 'don't suggest it unless you're going to be here 24/7 to support it' talk.
[20:22] <ikonia> I'll sort this in pm now
[20:25] <jussi01> ikonia: bansearch in pm remember
[20:25] <ikonia> I know I know, I had it aliased and lost it, so I keep slipping up
[20:26] <Pici> I setup an alias for /bansearch that does just that
[20:26] <ikonia> going to eat, he's not responding to pm - and I suspect he's going to suggest setting the root password again
[20:26] <ikonia> Pici: I did have it, but trashed my config by accident
[20:26] <ikonia> can someone keep an eye on him in #ubuntu make sure he does stop
[21:12] <ikonia> #nicwe job flood bots
[21:12] <mneptok> !staff - coordinated attack in #u
[21:12] <mneptok> bah
[21:12] <ikonia> ?
[21:12] <mneptok> !staff
[21:12] <mneptok> ^^^^^^^^
[21:12] <ikonia> why didn't that work
[21:12] <ikonia> ahh
[21:13] <genii> Ouchies
[21:14] <jussi01> pipes peoples, pipes
[21:15] <ikonia> flootbots are a great bit of code, it's cool how developed they have become
[21:15] <ikonia> credit to them
[21:21] <ikonia> another bot again
[21:22] <ikonia> all from the same network
[21:22] <ikonia> !staff | mass join in #ubuntu from this network straight after an attack abo.wanadoo.fr
[21:23] <ikonia> same proxy.ad domains from earlier too
[22:08] <oly562> i have an issue with one of your ops in #ubuntu
[22:08] <oly562> ikonia
[22:09] <ikonia> please state
[22:09] <oly562> please check the logs and see how this jerk badgered me for info that is not required
[22:10] <oly562> any tech with knowledge of networkin knows i gave all the info yet acted like a punk until forcing me to talk the way i did. if i were in his position i would have just moved forward, and not act in such a childish manor
[22:10] <oly562> and further more i feel this was a personal attack from previous experiences with it/he/she
[22:10] <ikonia> oly562: you where warned multiple times about your attitude towards the people helping you.
[22:11] <oly562> you were acting like a dick
[22:11] <oly562> period
[22:11] <ikonia> I've never had any previous experiences with you, unless you are using another nick name, so I'm not sure what your talking about
[22:11] <oly562> treating me like i am clueless
[22:11] <Seeker`> I believe that the information that ikonia requested was not excessive or unnecessary
[22:11] <oly562> Seeker`: read the log
[22:11] <oly562> and my replies
[22:11] <oly562> i gave him the info
[22:11] <Seeker`> I dont need to, I was there
[22:11] <oly562> at last 10x
[22:11] <oly562> well, then you obviously could have helped
[22:11] <Seeker`> he was asking you for simple information and you would not respond in a sensible fashion
[22:11] <oly562> no
[22:11] <oly562> he was not
[22:11] <oly562> he was being a punk about it
[22:12] <oly562> and your a punk for siding with him
[22:12] <oly562> i gave the info. 10x
[22:12] <ikonia> ahh hang on - I see you have been banned from #ubuntu channels / kicked from #ubuntu channels multiple times
[22:12] <ikonia> it appears you have a long history of bad behaviour in the channel
[22:12] <oly562> 192...71 and .71, .103 are stand notation.
[22:12] <oly562> it appears you a dick
[22:12] <Seeker`> am I correct in thinking that anyone that doesn't side with you will be labelled a "punk"?
[22:12] <oly562> anyone else in here, have a clue as to what is going on
[22:13] <ikonia> oly562: while you have this attitude this conversation is over, if you wish to discuss the ban in a polite manner come back when you are ready
[22:13] <oly562> just because you have a little power, i.e. ability to boot people, doesn't mean anything to me
[22:13] <ikonia> oly562: unless you can control your language - there is no point discussing it at this time
[22:13] <oly562> either you know computing or you do not, if you do, help out, if not, go somewhere else and practice your attitude
[22:13] <oly562> fuck you ikonia
[22:14] <ikonia> !ops | oly562
[22:14] <oly562> i dont need your help
[22:14] <ikonia> oly562: ok - then leave the channel please
[22:14] <ikonia> thank you
[22:14] <ikonia> Seeker`: thank you also
[22:14] <Seeker`> didn't do much
[22:20] <ikonia> see #freenode
[22:20] <ikonia> another one who wants the appeal process
[22:21] <Gary> I want popcorn
[22:24] <ikonia> hello MTughan what's up ?
[22:24] <MTughan> Watching for someone who was banned in #ubuntu apparently.
[22:24] <MTughan> He's making a stink about it in #freenode
[22:24] <ikonia> MTughan:I'm aware of him, this channel isn't used for watching though
[22:24] <ikonia> MTughan: this channel is only here if you need something,
[22:25] <MTughan> Okay.
[22:25] <nalioth> so who's got the link to the resolution process?
[22:26] <ikonia> !appeal
[22:26] <ikonia> that one,
[22:26] <ikonia> ?
[22:26] <ikonia> or the actual resolution process
[22:26] <ikonia> !resolution
[22:26] <ikonia> ha ha, not that one
[22:28] <oly562> ok... so
[22:28] <ikonia> ok, before we start please try to control your language/name calling
[22:28] <nalioth> this time, can we leave the name-calling out of it?
[22:28] <ikonia> then we can progress calmly - without issue
[22:28] <oly562> sighs....
[22:28] <oly562> fine
[22:29] <oly562> my issue? is what i want help with
[22:29] <ikonia> I understand what you want help with
[22:29] <oly562> some clues. something other than what i experience each time i go in to ubuntu
[22:29] <oly562> im not a NOOB
[22:29] <ikonia> however how you go about getting the help is not a good approach in the channel
[22:29] <oly562> get that straight
[22:29] <ikonia> no-one said you where new
[22:30] <oly562> i did 10 years of phone support, and you sounded like the guy next to me, messing with callers, asking like that. i said it doesnt apply here
[22:30] <ikonia> that doesn't apply here
[22:30] <oly562> 192...0/24 is what it is
[22:30] <ikonia> I was asking you to confirm your IP addresses - you refused to do so
[22:30] <oly562> you do NOT need to know my lan scheme
[22:30] <oly562> even though i told you
[22:30] <oly562> 192...0/24 is what it is
[22:30] <ikonia> I do to progress the situation I believe you had
[22:30] <oly562> whats your point? where are you going with this
[22:31] <oly562> everything is STANDARD dude
[22:31] <ikonia> I'm not helping you here - I'm trying to explain why you have been banned - again, from the channel
[22:31] <oly562> good greif
[22:31] <oly562> here we go again
[22:31] <oly562> ok, so what will you do next to trbsht the issue
[22:31] <ikonia> nothing
[22:31] <oly562> exactly
[22:31] <ikonia> I'm not troubleshooting in here
[22:31] <oly562> so i asked other people
[22:31] <oly562> and YOU kept repeating your question,, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over, over and over,
[22:31] <ikonia> I'm trying to explain why you keep being banned from #ubuntu and why this current situation occured
[22:32] <oly562> so nalioth little help here
[22:32] <oly562> you see this op is not helpful at all
[22:32] <ikonia> oly562: I was asking you to confirm you ip addresses (as where other people) to make a note of the networking to work it out,
[22:32] <oly562> you see that 192...0/24 is what it is... yet this guy will not move forward, he can not think outside the box
[22:33] <ikonia> oly562: that is not the ip address of a working box - that is your network range
[22:33] <ikonia> oly562: I was asking for the ip of a known working box, which is your windows box
[22:33] <oly562> i dont care what other people were saying, they were just repeating what you said, and i still feel that you dont know what to do next. you simiply could say,, ok, try this or that, or check this or that,,, but your messing with me. ANYONE else with experience would tell you the same
[22:33] <oly562> i even pasted my info again
[22:33] <ikonia> oly562: I wanted to check it out - hence asking for your ip
[22:33] <oly562> with all appropriate info
[22:34] <oly562> whatever dude
[22:34] <oly562> your boring the heck outta me
[22:34] <ikonia> ok, well, we can leave it there then
[22:34] <Seeker`> if you are bored, feel free to leave
[22:34] <oly562> nalioth: do i really need to explain anything more
[22:35] <nalioth> oly562: he did make a valid request
[22:35] <ikonia> oly562: as I said, your attitude and language is the reason you keep being banned from #ubuntu, if we can work that out, I don't think there will be anymore problems
[22:35] <nalioth> whether you wanted to answer him or now is your choice, but the public haranguing is not acceptable
[22:36] <nalioth> oly562: talk to me in here, please
[22:37] <oly562> nalioth: so...
[22:37] <oly562> i understand that pm's are not fun. my bad
[22:37] <oly562> like i said i dont have boot power
[22:37] <oly562> so is someone going to help out with my issue?
[22:38] <oly562> its not that hard is it?
[22:38] <ikonia> oly562: if you want to re-gain access to #ubuntu we need to just clam down how you talk to people and your language
[22:38] <ikonia> oly562: this isn't a support channel - you have lost access to the support channel
[22:38] <ikonia> oly562: if we can work on your attitude/language we can stop this happening in future
[22:38] <oly562> who is the top person in this room
[22:38] <ikonia> is that possible ?
[22:39] <oly562> who is root in this room
[22:39] <ikonia> there isn't a "root" of the room
[22:39] <oly562> yes there is
[22:39] <ikonia> oh, ok - then, please feel free to talk to root
[22:39] <oly562> you do NOT all have root access, you have privilege access
[22:39] <oly562> there is only one user 0
[22:40] <oly562> who is it? for ubuntu.freenode
[22:40] <ikonia> oly562: nalioth is an experienced member of both #ubuntus operating team and freenode staff, he's probably the most experienced user in the room he's active
[22:40] <ikonia> "who" is active sorry
[22:40] <oly562> in the future, ikonia i do not want to hear from you ever again
[22:40] <popey> oly562: this isn't doing you any favours.
[22:40] <ikonia> oly562: then we can't progress the issue,
[22:40] <oly562> not you and i, no
[22:41] <oly562> i dont ask you anything you dont ask me anything
[22:41] <oly562> simple
[22:41] <oly562> i dont need your kinda help
[22:41] <ikonia> oly562: I'm sorry - but you don't dictate the rules
[22:41] <oly562> however, there are people in freenode that can, you are not one of them
[22:41] <nalioth> ubottu: tell oly562 about appeal
[22:41] <oly562> you have shown your worth
[22:41] <ikonia> freenode don't set the #ubuntu channel policies
[22:42] <oly562> so nalioth you want to take a stab at my original issue?
[22:42] <ikonia> oly562: this is not a support channel
[22:42] <nalioth> oly562: not here, no.
[22:42] <oly562> in pm?
[22:42] <oly562> just a few questions
[22:42] <oly562> ubuntu related
[22:42] <oly562> then i will be on my way
[22:43] <ikonia> oly562: please take your support requests out of this channel
[22:43] <oly562> nalioth: see my point
[22:43] <oly562> im asking for pm, which is NOT in a channel
[22:43] <oly562> good grief
[22:43] <nalioth> oly562: this is not a support channel, or a channel to request support
[22:43] <oly562> ic
[22:44] <nalioth> remember what i said about channel guidelines
[22:44] <oly562> so you can't help a fellow nixian,,,
[22:44] <ikonia> oly562: this channel is not here for you to make support arangments,
[22:44] <ikonia> oly562: if you do not wish to discuss your ban - please leave the channel and use the rest of freenode
[22:44] <ikonia> oly562: not in this channel no
[22:44] <ikonia> oly562: I'll try to make it clearer. This channel is to discuss your ban - no support
[22:46] <ikonia> oly562: is there anything else you need at this time from us ?
[22:48] <ikonia> oly562: please don't send me pm's
[22:48] <ikonia> !idle | oly562
[22:49] <ikonia> oly562: I'll ask one more time, as it's obvious your active while pm'ing me - do you need anything else from this channel, if not please leave and come back when you do want to discuss it
[22:50] <ikonia> nalioth: can you please assist with this
[22:52] <nalioth> oly562: please respect the channel guidelines ( read the /topic )
[22:55] <ikonia> ok - this is obiously going nowhere.
[22:56] <ikonia> one more time
[22:56] <ikonia> !idle | oly562
[22:57] <oly562> im thinking
[23:19] <oly562> i do not like this channel, and i will not recommend it to anyone i know
[23:19] <oly562> dicks
[23:27] <LjL> attack ongoing (at least in -unregged)
[23:28] <LjL> told you so
[23:32] <Flannel> Geez, is today random-spam-day?
[23:33] <Flannel> ikonia: Did you get the thing with coleys sorted out?
[23:33]  * Flannel boggles at the selective reading of some people.
[23:34] <LjL> i would say yes
[23:35] <Pricey> jpds: yes
[23:35] <Pricey> jpds: r stops joins, R stop speaking
[23:36] <jpds> Pricey: I know, E_TIRED.
[23:36] <Pricey> case sensitivity ftw :D
[23:37] <LjL> shall i tighten the flood threshold a little?
[23:37] <Pricey> Its that or leaving +r on a little?
[23:37] <Pricey> My awaylog seems interesting.
[23:37] <LjL> Pricey: well, at this point i'd leave +r on a little in any case
[23:38] <LjL> still, the floods last a little uncomfortably long before the bots actually take action
[23:38] <Pricey> oh of course yeah
[23:38] <LjL> of course there's a reason for that (avoiding false alarm, the usual reason), but perhaps it can be made a *bit* tighter
[23:38] <Pricey> I would say they worked well.
[23:38] <Pricey> I see the flooding things joining at .26
[23:38] <Pricey> The bots +rR'd at .27
[23:39] <LjL> Pricey: oh yep they worked fine in that respect, they'd have been effective if an op was around to notice that. but they weren't too effective about the floods themselves
[23:39] <Pricey> I've lost you?
[23:40] <LjL> Pricey: i mean, they set +rR pretty quickly on the join-flood
[23:40] <LjL> Pricey: but after they removed it, and the spammers started actual privmsg-spamming, they didn't stop that very quickly
[23:41] <Pricey> Lost again. Timestamps?
[23:41] <LjL> Pricey: i'll just paste a log with commentary
[23:41] <Pricey> ty
[23:46] <LjL> Pricey: http://pastebin.ca/1513010
[23:56] <Pricey> LjL: on my screen i don't see that 7 seconds at the end
[23:56] <Pricey> let me double check
[23:56] <LjL> Pricey: no? please do check, it may well be my client that's being slowed down by the flooding itself
[23:57] <Pricey> LjL: On my screen, that last lot, the flood started at .26. The floodbots acted at .27
[23:57] <LjL> uhm
[23:57] <LjL> Pricey: you did get about 20 messages from the flooders in any case?
[23:57] <Pricey> LjL: I also see people joining -unregged at .26
[23:58] <Pricey> LjL: I haven't looked at exactly how they worked ont he previous attacks, but on that last one, they worked as well as I can imagine they could have.
[23:59] <LjL> Pricey: we probably misunderstood because the first "attack" (actually just a mass-join) happened at *minute* :26:, which i thought was what you meant, while you meant *second* :26
[23:59] <Pricey> I see 28 clients join.
[23:59] <LjL> which is when the last attack was
[23:59] <Pricey> (in the last attack(
[23:59] <LjL> yeah i haven't actually counted that, just saw they were a few