/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/07/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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loolHi there15:59
ograwhere ?15:59
* pgraner waves15:59
henohey16:00
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* fader_ waves.16:00
ttxo/16:00
slangasekhello16:01
slangasek#startmeeting16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
slangasek[LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-0716:01
MootBotLINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-0716:01
slangasek[TOPIC] QA Team16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Team16:01
slangasekso, let's dive right in :)16:01
* ogra puts on the snorkel16:02
fader_Hardware testing:16:02
fader_http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html16:02
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html16:02
fader_We're not seeing any major issues on desktops or servers at the moment -- there are some 'fail's that are nautilus crashing on startup, which is bug 40354916:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 403549 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV immediately after start up" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40354916:02
fader_(One server was not being tested but that was due to a DHCP configuration issue which is now resolved)16:02
fader_A couple of laptops are not able to PXE boot as the install environment does not recognize their ethernet hardware -- bug 40426416:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40426416:02
fader_mathben, the intern who is helping us test laptops, is in the Montreal office today and gathering the information about requested by the kernel team, so this is in progress16:02
fader_Finally, checkbox now contains a suite to run mago.  What this means is that we will get (GTK) application tests along with the current hardware tests, greatly increasing our automated test coverage.16:02
henospec update:16:03
heno* UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - Blocked on the LP team16:03
heno* UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing - In progress, on track for alpha 416:03
heno* UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-daily-desktop-testing - Implemented16:03
heno* UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing - moved to alpha 516:03
heno* UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-package-testing - Implemented16:03
pittisorry, forgot about the time change16:04
henoany questions for QA?16:05
slangasekfader_: does 403549 break the test completely?16:05
slangaseki.e., should those be considered failures as opposed to successes16:05
slangasek?16:05
fader_slangasek: No, nautilus restarts itself immediately.  The reason it is a 'fail' is that one of the tests is ~'make sure /var/crash is empty after install'16:06
slangasekok16:06
fader_Nautilus crashes and leaves a file there, so the above test reports a fail16:06
* slangasek bumps that bug up, then16:06
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fader_FYI, for those who have not seen it, mago is the desktop application testing framework that is being headed up by ara16:07
slangasekBlocked on the LP team - do we need to try to escalate something to get that unblocked, or are we better off continuing to defer the spec...?16:07
fader_It allows us to automatically test clicks, menus, text entry, etc.16:07
henohttp://mago.ubuntu.com/16:07
MootBotLINK received:  http://mago.ubuntu.com/16:07
pgranerslangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic16:08
slangasekno other questions from here16:08
henoslangasek, I've escalated to Kiko today16:08
slangasekheno: alright16:08
pgranerslangasek: -EWRONGPASTE16:08
slangasekanyone else have questions for QA?16:08
henoQA team done16:08
slangasekpgraner: ok :)16:08
* slangasek escalates bug #404264 as well16:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40426416:09
slangasek[TOPIC] Desktop Team16:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Desktop Team16:09
slangasekpitti: hello16:09
pittias usual, our current status is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus16:09
slangasek[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus16:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus16:09
pittiSince the last meeting we landed a lot of features and structural changes (see "Changes since alpha-3").16:09
pittiWe still need to land the gnome-bluetooth change and the new xsplash, but the integration of the latter will not be done for alpha-4.16:10
pittinot much progress on the bug front, though, we are still running full steam on landing new features16:10
slangasekwhat's "the" gnome-bluetooth change?  I thought gnome-bluetooth is already being pulled in now?  (It was for me on upgrade)16:10
pittithe only really nasty issue is the KDE network manager issue16:11
pittislangasek: I was told it'd happen "RSN", so maybe that was done now16:11
slangasekok16:11
pittiI don't see it on ubuntu-desktop yet, though16:11
slangasekfwiw, gnome-bluetooth's applet UI includes a laundry list of regressions for me, which I'll be filing soon16:11
slangasekso the fusa fix-up is landing for alpha-4?16:12
pittiright16:12
pittiTed said "it will be done this afternoon unless people keep asking" :)16:13
slangasekheh16:13
slangasekNM 0.8 breaking Kubuntu NM support again... is there some way we can get ahead of this problem?16:13
RiddellOn the Kubuntu side plasma-netbook has just arrived in universe and I want to get that on kubuntu-netbook image for the alpha16:13
Riddellslangasek: asac and awe are looking at NM 0.8 and KDE now, we need to keep them supplied with coffee until they fix it16:14
slangasekpitti: on bug #386699, is are #397288 and #398685 really duplicates of it?  They seem to describe an inverse problem16:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 386699 in gvfs "Mistakes external USB flash disk for system-internal disk" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38669916:15
slangasekRiddell: is plasma-netbook related to NM, or is it something else entirely?16:15
Riddellslangasek: that's unrelated16:15
slangasekok16:15
Riddellalso the DX team gave me message indicator for Kubuntu this week which needs some MIR changes but I hope to get that into the alpha too16:16
slangaseksounds good16:16
pittislangasek: I fixed the dup link of 39728816:16
pittislangasek: the other seems like a real duplicate to me16:16
slangasekpitti: it's not16:16
slangasek398685 is the same bug as 39728816:17
pitti398685 is a dupe of bug 386699 (just fixed)16:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 386699 in gvfs "Mistakes external USB flash disk for system-internal disk" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38669916:17
pittioops, I meant "that was already correct"16:17
pittibug 397288 was a false dupe of that, it's really a dupe of bug 39644816:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 397288 in gvfs "karmic auto-mounts non-removable drives (dup-of: 396448)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39728816:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 396448 in gvfs "inconsistent automounting on startup" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39644816:18
pittioh, and Seb just tells me that new gnome is scheduled for Monday; I'll ask him to be extra-careful to not break anything16:19
slangasekpitti: when you say "not a release blocker" in the report for bug #396448, do you mean the milestone or the karmic release as a whole?16:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 396448 in gvfs "inconsistent automounting on startup" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39644816:20
slangasekbecause I beg to differ for the latter - having a pop-up on every login if the user has partitions not in the fstab should be considered a release blocker16:20
pittislangasek: oh, it definitively needs fixing for karmic, but it shuldn't block Alpha-416:20
slangasekok16:20
pittislangasek: full ack16:20
* slangasek finishes digesting the report16:21
slangasekno more questions here16:21
slangasekanyone else?16:21
slangasek[TOPIC] Mobile Team16:23
MootBotNew Topic:  Mobile Team16:23
slangasekpitti: thanks16:23
lool[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic16:23
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic16:23
loolLotsof updates but nothing much to talk about16:23
loolJust want to highlight that we're not releasing mx51 images for A416:23
loolThese are postponed to A516:23
slangasekyes, due to delays in the kernel availability that we've discussed16:24
slangasekunfortunate, but we'll roll with it16:24
pgranerlool: I thought the reason we busted ass to get you a kernel today was so you could make A416:24
pgranerlool: wtf?16:24
loolpgraner: We need udebs16:24
pgranerlool: we asked that and the answer was no16:24
loolWe could have a non-installable image but it's not very useful16:25
pgranerlool: we will take this offline16:25
slangasekkernel without udebs gives a target that can be upgraded to and used for testing, but not for installation16:25
loolIt's better than no kernels but we wont have an unseful image16:26
loolWe will have something useful in the archive which is good16:26
cjwatsonTim came to me with a concern about kernel-wedge, which I'm hoping to deal with before I finish today (or at worst while travelling home this weekend); that would make life easier I understand16:26
loolpgraner: It is useful though16:26
loolpgraner: lets bring it offline indeed16:27
loolQuestions?16:28
cjwatsonactually, if I could get a sample image, it would help me in improving kernel-wedge16:28
slangaseklool: anything to add regarding the buildd roll-out?16:28
loolslangasek: I evaluated hardware and will have a call with elmo after this meeting16:28
slangasekok16:28
loolWe're sending all the boards we can spare to IS to act as buildds16:29
* slangasek nods16:29
slangasekno other questions here16:29
slangasekothers?16:29
slangasek[TOPIC] Kernel Team16:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Team16:30
slangaseklool: thanks16:30
slangasekpgraner, rtg: hello16:30
pgranerslangasek: Hello16:30
pgranerslangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic is for the bulk of our status16:30
slangasek[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic16:31
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic16:31
pgranerslangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/384579  is still on the list and we are waiting for input from testers16:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 384579 in linux "Linux thinks there’s a floppy drive when there’s not. Probing slows down bootup by almost a minute." [Unknown,Confirmed]16:31
slangasekright16:31
slangaseklooks like we've been waiting already for a while; maybe the submitters need prodded?16:32
pgranerslangasek: ogasawara is doing that as we type16:32
slangasekthe status listed for the AppArmor bug says "will be enabled in the next upload", but it already is16:32
slangasekok, cool16:32
slangasekand jjohansen appears to be working on that bug as we speak, so that tells me the status :)16:32
pgranerslangasek: yep, its being moved out of the kernel moving to userspace16:33
slangasekok, sounds good16:34
slangasekany specs in particular that you think need discussion?16:34
pgranerslangasek: not at this point, next week will be a more interesting meeting after the work this week16:34
slangasekand does anyone else have questions on the kernel team?16:34
slangasekpgraner: indeed :)16:34
pgraners/work/work we did/16:34
pgranerAny other questions?16:35
slangasekseems not16:35
slangasek[TOPIC] Foundations Team16:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Foundations Team16:35
slangasekpgraner: thanks16:35
pgranerslangasek: np16:36
cjwatsonsilly network16:36
cjwatson408901 is in progress (liw); 402850 is done according to evand16:36
cjwatson * foundations-karmic-apturl-policy: mostly done, last pieces blocked on LP bug 118870 and bug 38512916:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 118870 in soyuz "$sourcepackage/+changelog only shows one entry per distrorelease pocket" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11887016:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 385129 in soyuz "add PPA dependencies information to the api" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38512916:37
cjwatson * foundations-karmic-robust-python-packaging: mvo has a branch for that but is on leave16:37
cjwatson * foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape: platform side of this believed to be done, Landscape team to confirm that it actually works for them16:37
cjwatson * foundations-karmic-cloud-setup-in-server-installer: implementation not started, but this is top-priority and we thrashed out a step-by-step plan at the platform sprint this week; may slip Alpha 4 slightly (a week at most)16:37
cjwatson * foundations-karmic-grub2: running behind, but cjwatson has WIP to address the immediate UI concerns, and upstream is keen to hoover up the major remaining missing features16:37
cjwatson * foundations-karmic-power-management: I believe this is well underway; RM? ;-)16:37
cjwatson * foundations-karmic-iscsi-installer-support: installer side done (uploads underway), boot side pending fighting with kvm to get a test environment16:37
cjwatsonI don't think those LP pieces desperately need escalation; while they're ugly, they're not critical16:37
cjwatson... 408901 apparently not so in progress after all16:38
cjwatsonso we'll need to work more on that16:38
slangasekcjwatson: who needs to follow up with the landscape team on upgrade-support-in-landscape?16:38
cjwatsonI'll go and grab Gustavo after this and see if he knows anything about it16:39
slangasek[ACTION] cjwatson to follow up with Gustavo on foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape:16:39
MootBotACTION received:  cjwatson to follow up with Gustavo on foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape:16:39
cjwatsonrobust-python-packaging: doko said that you (slangasek) had concerns about defaulting python-central to include-links16:39
cjwatsonthose concerns are not expressed in the spec AFAICS. Could you elaborate?16:39
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek to look at 40890116:40
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek to look at 40890116:40
slangasekfoundations-karmic-power-management: yes, this is underway :)16:40
cjwatsonWRT robust-python-packaging, given that mvo is on leave, I am wondering whether it would make sense to defer this and apply case-by-case workarounds to packages of priority >= standard or in the middle of complex dep chains that are affected by the problem in question16:40
slangasekcertainly the pulling bits out of acpi-support that are redundant is well on its way; the reimplementing of bits we don't have elsewhere, not sure how complete that'll be for karmic16:41
slangasek(considering devicekit upstream still doesn't provide all the interfaces hal did - so this is probably blocked on Halsectomy, somewhat)16:41
pittilike, converting remaining ACPI keycodes to input events? (that needs to happen in the kernel, not userspace)16:42
slangasekcjwatson: robust-python-packaging: will have to follow up out-of-band, I don't have any of that state where I can reach it in my brain right now.  I probably assumed any objections I raised at UDS were being recorded by someone else in the session...16:43
cjwatsonthe spec is basically a mess, it has lots of items that haven't been followed up on16:43
slangasekbut case-by-case in the relevant dep chains would seem to be better than nothing?16:43
cjwatsonyes, definitely16:43
cjwatsonin particular lsb-release keeps rearing its ugly head16:43
slangasekpitti: like replacing hal-addon-input16:43
slangasek+d16:44
cjwatsonfixing that will require converting it to python-central, unfortunately (from the POV of amount of work required)16:44
cjwatsonapparently there's been discussion of the python-support changes but it's currently stalled on Joss16:44
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek, cjwaston, doko to discuss robust-python-packaging further16:44
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek, cjwaston, doko to discuss robust-python-packaging further16:44
pittislangasek: sorry, seems I keep forgetting what this does, except for propagating power/lid changes, etc.16:44
slangaseklet's move that out-of-band from here, then16:44
cjwatsonok16:45
slangasekpitti: ISTR the issue is that it /doesn't/ do more, and we didn't fix it to do more because devicekit was The Answer, so there are bits still handled only by acpi-support with nowhere to move them16:45
slangasekhmm, I may mean hald-addon-acpi rather than hald-addon-input16:45
slangasekbut anyway16:45
slangasekany other questions for Foundations team (that we shouldn't take out-of-band)?16:46
pittislangasek: I'll TTYL about that (out of band)16:46
slangasek[TOPIC] Server Team16:46
MootBotNew Topic:  Server Team16:46
slangasekcjwatson: thanks16:46
slangasekttx: hi16:46
ttxhey16:46
ttxSo the current status is now aavilable at16:47
ttxhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus16:47
loolNice!16:47
lool[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus16:47
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus16:47
ttxOn the bugs list, there is the Likewise-Open5 (universe) issue16:47
ttxBasically we were waiting for a code drop from upstream to solve krb-1.7 compatibility16:48
ttxNow it appears they won't deliver anything in time, so the backup plan is...16:48
ttxto use the Likewise private kerberos library instead.16:48
* slangasek nods16:49
ttxThat makes it a non-main target16:49
ttxbut should fix the issue for our users16:49
ttxOn the alpha4 radar now...16:49
slangasekright16:49
slangasek(ideally we wouldn't have to do this in universe either, but obviously we have few choices here)16:49
ttxThe big thing is that we'll try to release an EC2 Alpha4 release16:50
ttxat the same time as the regular alpha4, obviously16:50
ttxthat still needs some sync with the release team, but that's being worked out16:50
slangasekyes, I spoke with dendrobates a little earlier about what he would need to give us to have that included; sounds like things are on track16:50
ttxyes.16:50
ttxOther progress/alpha4 targets are described on the report...16:50
* slangasek nods16:51
ttxlet me know if you have any questions about that.16:51
slangaseklooks straightforward - no questions from me16:51
slangasekanyone else?16:51
slangasekttx: btw, if you mark the specs as 'UbuntuSpec:name' in your report, the wiki will give you links :)16:51
ttxslangasek: sorry, this is brand-new, and finished liek 2 minutes before the meeting :)16:52
slangaseksure, no problem16:52
ttxthx for the tip though :)16:52
slangasek[TOPIC] MOTU16:52
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU16:52
slangasekttx: thanks16:52
slangasekScottK: you don't happen to be around this morning?16:52
loolslangasek, ttx: done (spec links_16:53
slangasekshort notice, so if we don't have anyone to speak on behalf of ubuntu-motu I'll follow up off-line16:53
ttxlool: hey, cool :)16:53
slangasek[ACTION] slangasek to follow up with ScottK off-line16:53
MootBotACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with ScottK off-line16:53
slangasek[TOPIC] ISO size16:54
MootBotNew Topic:  ISO size16:54
slangasekseems that we have some images just above size, and most are under size16:54
slangasekbut we also have had to remove all langpacks to get them to that level in the first place16:54
slangasekpitti: anything you want to add on this topic?  I know you guys have some more help translation stripping in the works16:55
slangasekactually, today's alternate images seem to be larger than yesterday's16:56
pittiright, but I still need to write hte langpack-o-matic mechanics for this16:56
pittifor alpha-4 we probably need to kick out a langpack16:57
* slangasek nods16:57
slangasekthere are some that we can kick out again?16:57
slangasekI thought we were down to 016:57
pittithe tarball collection seems to work fine now \o/16:57
pittislangasek: I added three or so, to preempt people wanting to add other crack :)16:57
slangasekah, good call :)16:57
slangasekthanks. :)16:57
pittiwell, we'll still get some DX packages16:58
pittiOLS, I mean16:58
pittislangasek: the amd64 one doesn't seem to build right now, haven't looked into that yet16:58
slangasekso it sounds like we don't have to worry too much for alpha-4, and have some more work in progress that will help between now and final16:58
slangasekanyone want to throw out ideas on shrinking the CDs further?16:59
slangasek(shrink rays!)16:59
pittiI talked to seb128, gtkhtml is very sticky unfortunately16:59
slangasekoh?16:59
pittiI don't think we can kick it out for karmic16:59
pittiit's not that big, though16:59
slangasekdrat16:59
* slangasek nods17:00
pittiand I'm afraid we are finally nailed to webkit17:00
slangasekso clearly we should kick out xulrunner :)17:00
slangasekok, so we'll continue to keep watch on ISO sizes as usual17:00
slangasek[TOPIC] AOB17:00
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB17:00
slangasekanything else before we wrap?17:00
slangasek#endmeeting17:02
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:02.17:02
slangasekthanks, all17:02
pittithanks all17:02
loolcheers17:03
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mac9416Hey, y'all, is there to be some sort of a "LoCo tools" meeting in here at in 30min.?22:26
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popeyso my calendar tells me, yes mac941622:59
popeybut bed for me..22:59
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mac9416OK, thanks. Take it easy, popey :-)23:00

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