[15:59] <lool> Hi there
[15:59] <ogra> where ?
[15:59]  * pgraner waves
[16:00] <heno> hey
[16:00]  * fader_ waves.
[16:00] <ttx> o/
[16:01] <slangasek> hello
[16:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <slangasek> [LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-07
[16:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-07
[16:01] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:01] <slangasek> so, let's dive right in :)
[16:02]  * ogra puts on the snorkel
[16:02] <fader_> Hardware testing:
[16:02] <fader_> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
[16:02] <fader_> We're not seeing any major issues on desktops or servers at the moment -- there are some 'fail's that are nautilus crashing on startup, which is bug 403549
[16:02] <fader_> (One server was not being tested but that was due to a DHCP configuration issue which is now resolved)
[16:02] <fader_> A couple of laptops are not able to PXE boot as the install environment does not recognize their ethernet hardware -- bug 404264
[16:02] <fader_> mathben, the intern who is helping us test laptops, is in the Montreal office today and gathering the information about requested by the kernel team, so this is in progress
[16:02] <fader_> Finally, checkbox now contains a suite to run mago.  What this means is that we will get (GTK) application tests along with the current hardware tests, greatly increasing our automated test coverage.
[16:03] <heno> spec update:
[16:03] <heno> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - Blocked on the LP team
[16:03] <heno> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing - In progress, on track for alpha 4
[16:03] <heno> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-daily-desktop-testing - Implemented
[16:03] <heno> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing - moved to alpha 5
[16:03] <heno> * UbuntuSpec:karmic-qa-package-testing - Implemented
[16:04] <pitti> sorry, forgot about the time change
[16:05] <heno> any questions for QA?
[16:05] <slangasek> fader_: does 403549 break the test completely?
[16:05] <slangasek> i.e., should those be considered failures as opposed to successes
[16:05] <slangasek> ?
[16:06] <fader_> slangasek: No, nautilus restarts itself immediately.  The reason it is a 'fail' is that one of the tests is ~'make sure /var/crash is empty after install'
[16:06] <slangasek> ok
[16:06] <fader_> Nautilus crashes and leaves a file there, so the above test reports a fail
[16:06]  * slangasek bumps that bug up, then
[16:07] <fader_> FYI, for those who have not seen it, mago is the desktop application testing framework that is being headed up by ara
[16:07] <slangasek> Blocked on the LP team - do we need to try to escalate something to get that unblocked, or are we better off continuing to defer the spec...?
[16:07] <fader_> It allows us to automatically test clicks, menus, text entry, etc.
[16:07] <heno> http://mago.ubuntu.com/
[16:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://mago.ubuntu.com/
[16:08] <pgraner> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:08] <slangasek> no other questions from here
[16:08] <heno> slangasek, I've escalated to Kiko today
[16:08] <slangasek> heno: alright
[16:08] <pgraner> slangasek: -EWRONGPASTE
[16:08] <slangasek> anyone else have questions for QA?
[16:08] <heno> QA team done
[16:08] <slangasek> pgraner: ok :)
[16:09]  * slangasek escalates bug #404264 as well
[16:09] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:09] <slangasek> pitti: hello
[16:09] <pitti> as usual, our current status is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:09] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:09] <pitti> Since the last meeting we landed a lot of features and structural changes (see "Changes since alpha-3").
[16:10] <pitti> We still need to land the gnome-bluetooth change and the new xsplash, but the integration of the latter will not be done for alpha-4.
[16:10] <pitti> not much progress on the bug front, though, we are still running full steam on landing new features
[16:10] <slangasek> what's "the" gnome-bluetooth change?  I thought gnome-bluetooth is already being pulled in now?  (It was for me on upgrade)
[16:11] <pitti> the only really nasty issue is the KDE network manager issue
[16:11] <pitti> slangasek: I was told it'd happen "RSN", so maybe that was done now
[16:11] <slangasek> ok
[16:11] <pitti> I don't see it on ubuntu-desktop yet, though
[16:11] <slangasek> fwiw, gnome-bluetooth's applet UI includes a laundry list of regressions for me, which I'll be filing soon
[16:12] <slangasek> so the fusa fix-up is landing for alpha-4?
[16:12] <pitti> right
[16:13] <pitti> Ted said "it will be done this afternoon unless people keep asking" :)
[16:13] <slangasek> heh
[16:13] <slangasek> NM 0.8 breaking Kubuntu NM support again... is there some way we can get ahead of this problem?
[16:13] <Riddell> On the Kubuntu side plasma-netbook has just arrived in universe and I want to get that on kubuntu-netbook image for the alpha
[16:14] <Riddell> slangasek: asac and awe are looking at NM 0.8 and KDE now, we need to keep them supplied with coffee until they fix it
[16:15] <slangasek> pitti: on bug #386699, is are #397288 and #398685 really duplicates of it?  They seem to describe an inverse problem
[16:15] <slangasek> Riddell: is plasma-netbook related to NM, or is it something else entirely?
[16:15] <Riddell> slangasek: that's unrelated
[16:15] <slangasek> ok
[16:16] <Riddell> also the DX team gave me message indicator for Kubuntu this week which needs some MIR changes but I hope to get that into the alpha too
[16:16] <slangasek> sounds good
[16:16] <pitti> slangasek: I fixed the dup link of 397288
[16:16] <pitti> slangasek: the other seems like a real duplicate to me
[16:16] <slangasek> pitti: it's not
[16:17] <slangasek> 398685 is the same bug as 397288
[16:17] <pitti> 398685 is a dupe of bug 386699 (just fixed)
[16:17] <pitti> oops, I meant "that was already correct"
[16:18] <pitti> bug 397288 was a false dupe of that, it's really a dupe of bug 396448
[16:19] <pitti> oh, and Seb just tells me that new gnome is scheduled for Monday; I'll ask him to be extra-careful to not break anything
[16:19] <slangasek> pitti: when you say "not a release blocker" in the report for bug #396448, do you mean the milestone or the karmic release as a whole?
[16:20] <slangasek> because I beg to differ for the latter - having a pop-up on every login if the user has partitions not in the fstab should be considered a release blocker
[16:20] <pitti> slangasek: oh, it definitively needs fixing for karmic, but it shuldn't block Alpha-4
[16:20] <slangasek> ok
[16:20] <pitti> slangasek: full ack
[16:21]  * slangasek finishes digesting the report
[16:21] <slangasek> no more questions here
[16:21] <slangasek> anyone else?
[16:23] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:23] <slangasek> pitti: thanks
[16:23] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:23] <lool> Lotsof updates but nothing much to talk about
[16:23] <lool> Just want to highlight that we're not releasing mx51 images for A4
[16:23] <lool> These are postponed to A5
[16:24] <slangasek> yes, due to delays in the kernel availability that we've discussed
[16:24] <slangasek> unfortunate, but we'll roll with it
[16:24] <pgraner> lool: I thought the reason we busted ass to get you a kernel today was so you could make A4
[16:24] <pgraner> lool: wtf?
[16:24] <lool> pgraner: We need udebs
[16:24] <pgraner> lool: we asked that and the answer was no
[16:25] <lool> We could have a non-installable image but it's not very useful
[16:25] <pgraner> lool: we will take this offline
[16:25] <slangasek> kernel without udebs gives a target that can be upgraded to and used for testing, but not for installation
[16:26] <lool> It's better than no kernels but we wont have an unseful image
[16:26] <lool> We will have something useful in the archive which is good
[16:26] <cjwatson> Tim came to me with a concern about kernel-wedge, which I'm hoping to deal with before I finish today (or at worst while travelling home this weekend); that would make life easier I understand
[16:26] <lool> pgraner: It is useful though
[16:27] <lool> pgraner: lets bring it offline indeed
[16:28] <lool> Questions?
[16:28] <cjwatson> actually, if I could get a sample image, it would help me in improving kernel-wedge
[16:28] <slangasek> lool: anything to add regarding the buildd roll-out?
[16:28] <lool> slangasek: I evaluated hardware and will have a call with elmo after this meeting
[16:28] <slangasek> ok
[16:29] <lool> We're sending all the boards we can spare to IS to act as buildds
[16:29]  * slangasek nods
[16:29] <slangasek> no other questions here
[16:29] <slangasek> others?
[16:30] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[16:30] <slangasek> lool: thanks
[16:30] <slangasek> pgraner, rtg: hello
[16:30] <pgraner> slangasek: Hello
[16:30] <pgraner> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic is for the bulk of our status
[16:31] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
[16:31] <pgraner> slangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/384579  is still on the list and we are waiting for input from testers
[16:31] <slangasek> right
[16:32] <slangasek> looks like we've been waiting already for a while; maybe the submitters need prodded?
[16:32] <pgraner> slangasek: ogasawara is doing that as we type
[16:32] <slangasek> the status listed for the AppArmor bug says "will be enabled in the next upload", but it already is
[16:32] <slangasek> ok, cool
[16:32] <slangasek> and jjohansen appears to be working on that bug as we speak, so that tells me the status :)
[16:33] <pgraner> slangasek: yep, its being moved out of the kernel moving to userspace
[16:34] <slangasek> ok, sounds good
[16:34] <slangasek> any specs in particular that you think need discussion?
[16:34] <pgraner> slangasek: not at this point, next week will be a more interesting meeting after the work this week
[16:34] <slangasek> and does anyone else have questions on the kernel team?
[16:34] <slangasek> pgraner: indeed :)
[16:34] <pgraner> s/work/work we did/
[16:35] <pgraner> Any other questions?
[16:35] <slangasek> seems not
[16:35] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[16:35] <slangasek> pgraner: thanks
[16:36] <pgraner> slangasek: np
[16:36] <cjwatson> silly network
[16:36] <cjwatson> 408901 is in progress (liw); 402850 is done according to evand
[16:37] <cjwatson>  * foundations-karmic-apturl-policy: mostly done, last pieces blocked on LP bug 118870 and bug 385129
[16:37] <cjwatson>  * foundations-karmic-robust-python-packaging: mvo has a branch for that but is on leave
[16:37] <cjwatson>  * foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape: platform side of this believed to be done, Landscape team to confirm that it actually works for them
[16:37] <cjwatson>  * foundations-karmic-cloud-setup-in-server-installer: implementation not started, but this is top-priority and we thrashed out a step-by-step plan at the platform sprint this week; may slip Alpha 4 slightly (a week at most)
[16:37] <cjwatson>  * foundations-karmic-grub2: running behind, but cjwatson has WIP to address the immediate UI concerns, and upstream is keen to hoover up the major remaining missing features
[16:37] <cjwatson>  * foundations-karmic-power-management: I believe this is well underway; RM? ;-)
[16:37] <cjwatson>  * foundations-karmic-iscsi-installer-support: installer side done (uploads underway), boot side pending fighting with kvm to get a test environment
[16:37] <cjwatson> I don't think those LP pieces desperately need escalation; while they're ugly, they're not critical
[16:38] <cjwatson> ... 408901 apparently not so in progress after all
[16:38] <cjwatson> so we'll need to work more on that
[16:38] <slangasek> cjwatson: who needs to follow up with the landscape team on upgrade-support-in-landscape?
[16:39] <cjwatson> I'll go and grab Gustavo after this and see if he knows anything about it
[16:39] <slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to follow up with Gustavo on foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape:
[16:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to follow up with Gustavo on foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape:
[16:39] <cjwatson> robust-python-packaging: doko said that you (slangasek) had concerns about defaulting python-central to include-links
[16:39] <cjwatson> those concerns are not expressed in the spec AFAICS. Could you elaborate?
[16:40] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to look at 408901
[16:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to look at 408901
[16:40] <slangasek> foundations-karmic-power-management: yes, this is underway :)
[16:40] <cjwatson> WRT robust-python-packaging, given that mvo is on leave, I am wondering whether it would make sense to defer this and apply case-by-case workarounds to packages of priority >= standard or in the middle of complex dep chains that are affected by the problem in question
[16:41] <slangasek> certainly the pulling bits out of acpi-support that are redundant is well on its way; the reimplementing of bits we don't have elsewhere, not sure how complete that'll be for karmic
[16:41] <slangasek> (considering devicekit upstream still doesn't provide all the interfaces hal did - so this is probably blocked on Halsectomy, somewhat)
[16:42] <pitti> like, converting remaining ACPI keycodes to input events? (that needs to happen in the kernel, not userspace)
[16:43] <slangasek> cjwatson: robust-python-packaging: will have to follow up out-of-band, I don't have any of that state where I can reach it in my brain right now.  I probably assumed any objections I raised at UDS were being recorded by someone else in the session...
[16:43] <cjwatson> the spec is basically a mess, it has lots of items that haven't been followed up on
[16:43] <slangasek> but case-by-case in the relevant dep chains would seem to be better than nothing?
[16:43] <cjwatson> yes, definitely
[16:43] <cjwatson> in particular lsb-release keeps rearing its ugly head
[16:43] <slangasek> pitti: like replacing hal-addon-input
[16:44] <slangasek> +d
[16:44] <cjwatson> fixing that will require converting it to python-central, unfortunately (from the POV of amount of work required)
[16:44] <cjwatson> apparently there's been discussion of the python-support changes but it's currently stalled on Joss
[16:44] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek, cjwaston, doko to discuss robust-python-packaging further
[16:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek, cjwaston, doko to discuss robust-python-packaging further
[16:44] <pitti> slangasek: sorry, seems I keep forgetting what this does, except for propagating power/lid changes, etc.
[16:44] <slangasek> let's move that out-of-band from here, then
[16:45] <cjwatson> ok
[16:45] <slangasek> pitti: ISTR the issue is that it /doesn't/ do more, and we didn't fix it to do more because devicekit was The Answer, so there are bits still handled only by acpi-support with nowhere to move them
[16:45] <slangasek> hmm, I may mean hald-addon-acpi rather than hald-addon-input
[16:45] <slangasek> but anyway
[16:46] <slangasek> any other questions for Foundations team (that we shouldn't take out-of-band)?
[16:46] <pitti> slangasek: I'll TTYL about that (out of band)
[16:46] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[16:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[16:46] <slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
[16:46] <slangasek> ttx: hi
[16:46] <ttx> hey
[16:47] <ttx> So the current status is now aavilable at
[16:47] <ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:47] <lool> Nice!
[16:47] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:47] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[16:47] <ttx> On the bugs list, there is the Likewise-Open5 (universe) issue
[16:48] <ttx> Basically we were waiting for a code drop from upstream to solve krb-1.7 compatibility
[16:48] <ttx> Now it appears they won't deliver anything in time, so the backup plan is...
[16:48] <ttx> to use the Likewise private kerberos library instead.
[16:49]  * slangasek nods
[16:49] <ttx> That makes it a non-main target
[16:49] <ttx> but should fix the issue for our users
[16:49] <ttx> On the alpha4 radar now...
[16:49] <slangasek> right
[16:49] <slangasek> (ideally we wouldn't have to do this in universe either, but obviously we have few choices here)
[16:50] <ttx> The big thing is that we'll try to release an EC2 Alpha4 release
[16:50] <ttx> at the same time as the regular alpha4, obviously
[16:50] <ttx> that still needs some sync with the release team, but that's being worked out
[16:50] <slangasek> yes, I spoke with dendrobates a little earlier about what he would need to give us to have that included; sounds like things are on track
[16:50] <ttx> yes.
[16:50] <ttx> Other progress/alpha4 targets are described on the report...
[16:51]  * slangasek nods
[16:51] <ttx> let me know if you have any questions about that.
[16:51] <slangasek> looks straightforward - no questions from me
[16:51] <slangasek> anyone else?
[16:51] <slangasek> ttx: btw, if you mark the specs as 'UbuntuSpec:name' in your report, the wiki will give you links :)
[16:52] <ttx> slangasek: sorry, this is brand-new, and finished liek 2 minutes before the meeting :)
[16:52] <slangasek> sure, no problem
[16:52] <ttx> thx for the tip though :)
[16:52] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[16:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[16:52] <slangasek> ttx: thanks
[16:52] <slangasek> ScottK: you don't happen to be around this morning?
[16:53] <lool> slangasek, ttx: done (spec links_
[16:53] <slangasek> short notice, so if we don't have anyone to speak on behalf of ubuntu-motu I'll follow up off-line
[16:53] <ttx> lool: hey, cool :)
[16:53] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with ScottK off-line
[16:53] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with ScottK off-line
[16:54] <slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
[16:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
[16:54] <slangasek> seems that we have some images just above size, and most are under size
[16:54] <slangasek> but we also have had to remove all langpacks to get them to that level in the first place
[16:55] <slangasek> pitti: anything you want to add on this topic?  I know you guys have some more help translation stripping in the works
[16:56] <slangasek> actually, today's alternate images seem to be larger than yesterday's
[16:56] <pitti> right, but I still need to write hte langpack-o-matic mechanics for this
[16:57] <pitti> for alpha-4 we probably need to kick out a langpack
[16:57]  * slangasek nods
[16:57] <slangasek> there are some that we can kick out again?
[16:57] <slangasek> I thought we were down to 0
[16:57] <pitti> the tarball collection seems to work fine now \o/
[16:57] <pitti> slangasek: I added three or so, to preempt people wanting to add other crack :)
[16:57] <slangasek> ah, good call :)
[16:57] <slangasek> thanks. :)
[16:58] <pitti> well, we'll still get some DX packages
[16:58] <pitti> OLS, I mean
[16:58] <pitti> slangasek: the amd64 one doesn't seem to build right now, haven't looked into that yet
[16:58] <slangasek> so it sounds like we don't have to worry too much for alpha-4, and have some more work in progress that will help between now and final
[16:59] <slangasek> anyone want to throw out ideas on shrinking the CDs further?
[16:59] <slangasek> (shrink rays!)
[16:59] <pitti> I talked to seb128, gtkhtml is very sticky unfortunately
[16:59] <slangasek> oh?
[16:59] <pitti> I don't think we can kick it out for karmic
[16:59] <pitti> it's not that big, though
[16:59] <slangasek> drat
[17:00]  * slangasek nods
[17:00] <pitti> and I'm afraid we are finally nailed to webkit
[17:00] <slangasek> so clearly we should kick out xulrunner :)
[17:00] <slangasek> ok, so we'll continue to keep watch on ISO sizes as usual
[17:00] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:00] <slangasek> anything else before we wrap?
[17:02] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
[17:02] <slangasek> thanks, all
[17:02] <pitti> thanks all
[17:03] <lool> cheers
[22:26] <mac9416> Hey, y'all, is there to be some sort of a "LoCo tools" meeting in here at in 30min.?
[22:59] <popey> so my calendar tells me, yes mac9416
[22:59] <popey> but bed for me..
[23:00] <mac9416> OK, thanks. Take it easy, popey :-)