[10:55] <mdke> Gwaihir: ciao
[10:55] <Gwaihir> mdke: ciao!
[10:56] <mdke> Gwaihir: could you do me a favour and download the translations for intrepid/ubuntu-docs - not sure if you saw my email to -translations-coordinators through Launchpad about that
[10:56] <Gwaihir> hmm... nope... didn't see that mail...
[10:57] <mdke> damn, maybe Launchpad let me down
[10:57] <mdke> I sent it through the "Contact a team" interface
[10:57] <Gwaihir> when did you send it?
[10:57] <mdke> maybe thursday morning? Not 100% sure
[10:58] <mdke> anyway it's the translations from here I'm after - http://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/ubuntu-docs
[10:58] <mdke> I can't download them since I left the coordinators team
[10:59] <Gwaihir> sure, not a problem
[10:59] <mdke> many thanks
[10:59] <mdke> you're not still on dialup right?
[11:00] <Gwaihir> luckily not!
[11:00] <mdke> :)
[11:00] <Gwaihir> anyway I'll send you the link...
[11:00] <mdke> actually you don't need to download the translations yourself, if you can send me the LP link
[11:00] <mdke> right
[11:00] <mdke> thanks again
[11:01] <Gwaihir> no problem at all
[11:01] <Gwaihir> as soon as I get the link I'll forward it to you
[11:02] <mdke> grazie mille
[11:02] <mdke> buona domenica :)
[11:07] <Gwaihir> sent it!
[11:07] <Gwaihir> buona domenica to you too! :)
[19:59] <philbull> hi guys
[19:59] <missaugustina> Hi!
[20:00] <Rocket2DMn> hi
[20:01] <philbull> Who's here for the installation guide meeting?
[20:01] <missaugustina> I am :)
[20:01] <Rocket2DMn> i had no idea there was one
[20:02] <philbull> oops, I didn't send an email to the list
[20:02] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i had no idea, either
[20:02] <philbull> not to worry, I was just hoping for a bit of a status update, nothing too serious
[20:03] <j1mc> there's also a gnome-doc meeting right now. :)
[20:03] <philbull> I'll post the logs to the ubuntu-doc list
[20:03] <KelvinGardiner> I'm here for the install guide meeting.
[20:03] <avi1> I'm here
[20:03] <Rocket2DMn> ok, well i won't be participating in your meeting, I'll read the log though
[20:03] <philbull> j1mc: I know, I'm in it...
[20:05] <philbull> OK, would everyone who's here like to give a brief overview of what they've been working on?
[20:06] <missaugustina> Awhile back I committed to doing the usb creator docs, so I submitted a draft of that.
[20:07] <avi1> I've started drafting the installation and looking at virtualization option.
[20:07] <missaugustina> There has been discussion on ubuntu-doc about what to include in the installation guide.
[20:07] <missaugustina> I can create a different version of those docs for the installation guide or they can be used as is, whatever works.
[20:08] <missaugustina> And I've started working on the Alternate CD installation instructions by researching Alternate CD use in the forums etc
[20:08] <KelvinGardiner> I've written a draft of the "What's Next" section I'll email it this week. I'm going to create a page on the wiki with the a list of common problems and links to solutions.
[20:08] <philbull> missaugustina: are you intending to put the Alternate CD stuff in the IG?
[20:08] <philbull> it's already covered by the installation-guide
[20:09] <missaugustina> There was a section for it in the outline
[20:09] <missaugustina> When we last met, I said I would work on that section.
[20:09] <missaugustina> I might be confused though, what was the link to the outline again?
[20:09] <philbull> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/KarmicInstallationGuide#Proposed%20structure
[20:10] <missaugustina> Getting the Alternate CD / Why would I need the Alternate CD?
[20:10] <philbull> I think I intended that as a brief link out to the Alternate CD stuff, just to let people know that it exists
[20:10] <missaugustina> Right.
[20:10] <philbull> It's far too much to cover in the current guide, I think
[20:11] <missaugustina> I agree. I wanted to see what questions people had in the forums and what people were using it for.
[20:11] <philbull> (as far as actually describing the alternate installation procedure goes)
[20:11] <philbull> missaugustina: aha, I'm with you now
[20:12] <philbull> avi1: what's the virtualisation stuff you've been looking at?
[20:12] <avi1> oh, just looking at virtualizing Win 7 for the WUbi install
[20:12] <avi1> instead of showing Wubi with Win XP
[20:12] <philbull> cool
[20:12] <avi1> so that it's a bit more up to date. For WUBI
[20:12] <philbull> which version of Windows should we be targeting?
[20:13] <philbull> XP is still the most common
[20:13] <avi1> My guess is Vista and Win 7
[20:13] <avi1> True
[20:13] <KelvinGardiner> I would say Xp, vista and win 7
[20:13] <missaugustina> I would search the forums and find out where people have the most questions
[20:13] <missaugustina> If a lot of current posts are using XP then it should be targeted.
[20:14] <avi1> yeah, I think XP, Vista and 7 make sense
[20:14] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: when we have too many options to cover, I think that we should think about covering the less popular options on the wiki
[20:14] <avi1> 7 isn't out yet but will be out around the same time ... The installation for 7 and Vista should be about the same
[20:14] <philbull> I don't think that covering all 3 makes sense, unless we can do it in an unconfusing and compact way
[20:14] <philbull> what do you think avi1?
[20:15] <avi1> I don't think it's going to take a long time
[20:15] <avi1> but someone probably will need to verify the Vista, I have XP and 7 RC
[20:15] <avi1> but Wubi isn't hard to do
[20:16] <KelvinGardiner> ok, I was thinking if I had an old machine that couldn't upgrade to  win 7, it would probably be an xp machine, I may wish to use wubi to try ubuntu.
[20:16] <avi1> True
[20:16] <KelvinGardiner> I've got a vista install I give wubi a try.
[20:16] <avi1> I ran Wubi before on the Win 7 beta
[20:19] <philbull> ok, thanks guys
[20:19] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: regarding common problems; what sort of things are you turning up?
[20:20] <KelvinGardiner> I found type categories of common problems.
[20:20] <dhillon-v10> j1mc
[20:20] <dhillon-v10> hi
[20:20] <KelvinGardiner> The first are general issues which I think you listed most of on the wiki.
[20:21] <dhillon-v10> j1mc: Are you there?? ;)
[20:21] <KelvinGardiner> The second are hardware specific issues. For example every ubuntu install on my macbook breaks the headphone sound, which is fixed by turning on the surround sound channel.
[20:22] <j1mc> philbull: dhillon-v10 is interested in contributing to ubuntu docs
[20:22] <j1mc> shoot
[20:22] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: maybe we should cover hardware-specifics on the wiki and just link to them?
[20:22] <j1mc> just missed him
[20:22] <KelvinGardiner> Most of these issues are covered by the community help page and forums. I think we should point at these pages in the install guide and cover the common ones in detail.
[20:22] <philbull> j1mc: thanks, could you pass his email address on to me, maybe?
[20:23] <j1mc> philbull: sure
[20:23] <avi1> That probably makes sense. I've noticed a lot of WiFi issues. They need to be dealt with but using the Wiki is probably the best bet at this stage.
[20:24] <philbull> OK, so hardware issues are probably a wiki thing.
[20:24] <philbull> More generic hardware issues (maybe some graphics or hard disk issues?) we should probably cover in the guide
[20:24] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: did you see my IRC script that I posted on the ubuntu-doc list?
[20:25] <philbull> it might help in rooting out some common problems
[20:25] <KelvinGardiner> yeah, I've not had chance to try it yet. I try it this week.
[20:25] <philbull> cool, let me know if you have any problems with it
[20:25] <philbull> OK, sounds like we're progressing well with the writing
[20:26] <KelvinGardiner> Are we going to cover installing restricted graphics drivers?
[20:26] <philbull> I haven't heard from nhandler in a while
[20:26] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: that's covered directly by the system docs, so we should just point there if it's a major problem.
[20:26] <KelvinGardiner> ok
[20:28] <dhillon-v10> hi everyone
[20:28] <philbull> hi dhillon-v10
[20:29] <dhillon-v10>  philbull: I have a question for you
[20:29] <philbull> dhillon-v10: sure, shoot
[20:29] <philbull> (IG team guys: anything else you'd like to discuss?)
[20:29] <dhillon-v10>  philbull: When I get into a room and want help who should I ask
[20:30] <KelvinGardiner> If this is going on to the karmic cd, when do we need to be done for?
[20:31] <philbull> dhillon-v10: on IRC? it's normally best to ask a question to the whole channel
[20:31] <philbull> dhillon-v10: though it can take a long time for someone to reply
[20:31] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: I think we need to be done by Feature Freeze
[20:31] <dhillon-v10> philbull: so just shoot it out...
[20:32] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: 27th August, hmm
[20:32] <philbull> So I think we need *something* by then
[20:32] <dhillon-v10> philbull: Can I help
[20:32] <philbull> We need to finish the guide by Doc String Freeze
[20:32] <avi1> Oh, question, how are we dealing with screen shots?
[20:33] <philbull> dhillon-v10: sure, what would you like to help out with?
[20:33] <avi1> Are we going to have a significant amount of screen shots or totally ignore them? Or does that depend.
[20:33] <dhillon-v10> philbull: something you guys were talking about just now
[20:33] <KelvinGardiner> ok, who is sorting out the layout? I think a clear simple layout is needed for the common problems section.
[20:33] <philbull> avi1: they should be used reasonably sparingly
[20:34] <philbull> avi1: they're awkward for translators, but we can figure something out.
[20:34] <philbull> KelvinGardiner: I think that was DB's job
[20:35] <KelvinGardiner> ok
[20:36] <philbull> dhillon-v10: we're talking about the installation guide at the moment
[20:37] <dhillon-v10> philbull: Alright go on
[20:37] <philbull> would you be interested in helping out with the wiki side of the installation docs?
[20:37] <dhillon-v10>  philbull: ya sure
[20:40] <philbull> once the installation guide is finished, we'll need to look at the wiki pages and see what should be reorganised
[20:41] <dhillon-v10> philbull: Alright
[20:41] <philbull> dhillon-v10: would you like to email me and I can send through some details?
[20:41] <philbull> it's philbull AT gmail DOT com
[20:42] <philbull> OK installation guide guys, it seems like everyone is making pretty good progress so far
[20:43] <philbull> any grievances? Questions?
[20:43] <KelvinGardiner> no
[20:43] <philbull> I'd like to apologise for missing the last meeting.
[20:43] <missaugustina> Nope
[20:43] <dhillon-v10> philbull: Alright I just send you an email
[20:43] <philbull> dhillon-v10: thanks, I'll get back to you ASAP
[20:43] <dhillon-v10> philbull: np :)
[20:44] <philbull> OK, if no-one has anything more to discuss about the IG, then we should end the meeting
[20:44] <philbull> I'm pretty pleased so far
[20:45] <philbull> thanks for coming guys :)
[20:45] <missaugustina> np!
[20:46] <KelvinGardiner> no problem
[20:46] <dhillon-v10> philbull: yah, nice talking to you
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> Ok guys, let's get started with the BT Wiki FG meeting
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> just FYI guys, the doc-team had a meeting last weekend
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> You can find the summary and log here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/DocTeam
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> Before we start with the wiki stuff - is anybody also interested in working on system docs?
[22:03] <starcraftman> not really, I'm pretty happy sticking to wiki atm. Maybe further down the road.
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> ok then, let me know in the future if you are
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> Moving on - Summer of Documentation
[22:04] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: will do.
[22:04] <Rocket2DMn> Thank you all for your hard work this summer, a lot of great stuff has been done
[22:04] <Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
[22:04] <Silver_Fox_> thank you too Rocket2DMn
[22:04] <Rocket2DMn> Of course, you can work on any page on the wiki, even if it isn't listed there
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> also, you can add any pages to the Available section if you run across a page you think BT members might be able to handle
[22:05] <starcraftman> Yup, congrats to all, think we covered quite a bit of articles I'll get some more in before I go back in mid September.
[22:05] <Silver_Fox_> i am still beavering away at the list :)
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> Yeah, we'll wind down the SoD in September
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> perhaps around Sept 22, that is the weekend at the end of the Summer season
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> Although, I fully expect some drop off around Labor day since people will be going back to school
[22:06] <Silver_Fox_> why do we want to wind it down?
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> I recognize that this is all volunteer time, so don't stress yourselves
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> well Silver_Fox_ , we can't maintain the Summer of Documentation all year round :)
[22:06] <starcraftman> Silver_Fox_: summer holiday doesn't last forever, even if some wish it did ^^
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> that's not to say you can't do work, it's just not part of this little project
[22:07] <Silver_Fox_> okay,  just clarifying :)
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> we do maintain the community docs all year round :)
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> the SoD is really just a way to get people from the BT involved in the wiki
[22:07] <Silver_Fox_> hey,  might even finish the glossary,  haha
[22:08] <Rocket2DMn> Does anybody have any questions?
[22:09] <Silver_Fox_> i think that is a no
[22:09] <Rocket2DMn> Ok then, please feel free to interrupt me at any time, but I'll move on
[22:09] <starcraftman> Not really, I think someone wanted to know what to do with orphans....
[22:09] <Rocket2DMn> A page that I've thrown at a couple of you guys is exactly what starcraftman is now mentioning
[22:09] <Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OrphanedPages
[22:09] <Rocket2DMn> those are pages that aren't linked from anywhere else on the community docs
[22:09] <Rocket2DMn> a lot of the pages listed there are redirects, so you can ignore those
[22:10] <Silver_Fox_> i have a question regarding that page
[22:10] <Rocket2DMn> However, many of those pages need homes, and pages that arent linked from elsewhere arent very useful unless somebody grabs it from google
[22:10] <Rocket2DMn> go for it Silver_Fox_
[22:10] <Silver_Fox_> is it generated by a bot or human? reason i ask is i can see where some of the links could be referenced
[22:10] <Rocket2DMn> Silver_Fox_, it should be autogenerated
[22:11] <Silver_Fox_> okay,  thank you Rocket2DMn.
[22:11] <Rocket2DMn> starcraftman asked me to give an example
[22:11] <starcraftman> I did? Don't think so ><.
[22:11] <Rocket2DMn> no, maybe it was somebody else
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> sorry
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> anyway, let's take https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WineServer
[22:12] <starcraftman> sure.
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> if you look at the page history, you will notice that it was only created a year ago, which meant somebody started an independent page
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> the main Wine page is here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine
[22:13] <Rocket2DMn> So what do we do with the WineServer page?
[22:13] <Rocket2DMn> why dont' you guys tell me what you would do :)
[22:13] <starcraftman> Link from WINE > WineServer.
[22:14] <starcraftman> The exact nature of how ya link it about though depends on the pages, the WINE page a bit of a mess as it is.
[22:14] <Silver_Fox_> check content of wine page first to see if wine server covered
[22:14] <Rocket2DMn> Yes, there could be content on the WineServer page that isn't covered on the Wine page
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not a Wine expert, but it should be noted that Wine and WineServer are two components of what is generally just viewed as Wine
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> perhaps there is content that should specifically remain on the WineServer page, or be moved there from the Wine page
[22:16] <Rocket2DMn> if somebody were to take on that page, they would need to do some research or already know more about wine than i do :)
[22:16] <starcraftman> Wineserver page definitely needs to be updated if it's to be linked, last tested on 606 it says.
[22:17] <starcraftman> I'm more of a VM user tbh.
[22:17] <Rocket2DMn> yeah starcraftman , after cleanup the links can be added
[22:17] <starcraftman> Though I have been trying desperately hard to get WINE to make my folding GPU windows client work, no luck though.
[22:17] <Rocket2DMn> lol
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> well, there are other pages like this on the wiki that show us interesting things about what's happening with the wiki
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PageHits
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecentChanges
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex
[22:18] <starcraftman> hehe, I'm listed a lot on the recent changes one. :)
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> There are a couple more i believe, but i dont recall them off the top of my head
[22:19] <Rocket2DMn> Any questions?
[22:19] <Rocket2DMn> ok then
[22:19] <starcraftman> nope, simple enough concept, already linked about 20 or so orphans I thought were worth saving.
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure if you are already doing this, but it would be good if you all subscribed to pages that you did serious work on
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> then you can act as a maintainer of the page, and see what changes other people make later
[22:20] <Silver_Fox_> good idea
[22:21] <starcraftman> Yup, I do that for the ones I rewrite like my backup and the ISO pages.
[22:21] <Silver_Fox_> are only 3 people here?
[22:21] <Rocket2DMn> I also want to note that if you work on pages that are important, popular, or probably/might have experts in the subject, you should seek those people out if appropriate to ask for advice about a page, or to let them know that you are working on it
[22:21] <dsas> Silver_Fox_: no
[22:22] <starcraftman> Silver_Fox_: Only 3 wiki fg members, yup, I think so. Rest are regular doc members.
[22:22] <Rocket2DMn> remember that this is a community effort and we are working with others to keep documentation up to date
[22:22] <Rocket2DMn> it is respectful and helpful to talk to others - you can always check to see who has contributed to pages by looking at the Page History
[22:23] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Right, can always send a post to doc mail list to ask..
[22:23] <Rocket2DMn> if you have questions or concerns, you can always take them to the doc-team mailing list, or other lists if appropriate
[22:23] <Rocket2DMn> exactly starcraftman
[22:23] <pleia2> some pages also instruct you not to edit them, so it's good to read them thoroughly too
[22:24] <Rocket2DMn> yes, those are ones that should be taken to mailing lists.  there are only a handful of pages like that though, and are often ones linked from the main ubuntu site or are maintained by project owners
[22:25] <pleia2> yeah, I'm thinking council ones mostly (irc council's irc rules, loco council's loco team list)
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> those are mostly on wiki.ubuntu.com, which we don't typically deal with
[22:25] <pleia2> ah, ok
[22:26] <Rocket2DMn> does anybody have any questions at all?  I am basically out of material.  I like to keep these meetings short
[22:27] <starcraftman> not really, I usually ask ya a question in the bt channel when it comes to me.
[22:27] <Silver_Fox_> I don't have any questions
[22:27] <Rocket2DMn> okie dokie then.  Of course you can always ask questions later
[22:28] <Rocket2DMn> Thanks for attending, meeting adjourned!
[22:28] <starcraftman> no problem
[22:28] <Silver_Fox_> a pleasure
[22:28] <Silver_Fox_> now if only bt meetings were at this time :)
[22:29] <Rocket2DMn> hehe
[22:29] <Silver_Fox_> it would be a lot easier for me and means i get to bed before 2am
[22:29] <Silver_Fox_> but yeah...
[22:33] <Snova> Where would I report an... odd, page?
[22:35] <starcraftman> Snova: odd page?
[22:35] <Snova> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LaunchPad
[22:35] <starcraftman> Snova: linky?
[22:35] <Snova> I found it linked off of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Git
[22:37] <starcraftman> Snova: I see what ya mean, originator posted the CoC signed, the next guy was trying to get help... either pranksters or very very lost people.
[22:37] <Silver_Fox_> hmm i suspect lost
[22:38] <Silver_Fox_> created back in may i see.  does not belong in wiki though
[22:39] <starcraftman> Silver_Fox_: guess not, I'll mark it for deletion. Covering lp isn't in scope of the wiki.