[10:55] Gwaihir: ciao [10:55] mdke: ciao! [10:56] Gwaihir: could you do me a favour and download the translations for intrepid/ubuntu-docs - not sure if you saw my email to -translations-coordinators through Launchpad about that [10:56] hmm... nope... didn't see that mail... [10:57] damn, maybe Launchpad let me down [10:57] I sent it through the "Contact a team" interface [10:57] when did you send it? [10:57] maybe thursday morning? Not 100% sure [10:58] anyway it's the translations from here I'm after - http://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/ubuntu-docs [10:58] I can't download them since I left the coordinators team [10:59] sure, not a problem [10:59] many thanks [10:59] you're not still on dialup right? [11:00] luckily not! [11:00] :) [11:00] anyway I'll send you the link... [11:00] actually you don't need to download the translations yourself, if you can send me the LP link [11:00] right [11:00] thanks again [11:01] no problem at all [11:01] as soon as I get the link I'll forward it to you [11:02] grazie mille [11:02] buona domenica :) [11:07] sent it! [11:07] buona domenica to you too! :) [19:59] hi guys [19:59] Hi! [20:00] hi [20:01] Who's here for the installation guide meeting? [20:01] I am :) [20:01] i had no idea there was one [20:02] oops, I didn't send an email to the list [20:02] Rocket2DMn: i had no idea, either [20:02] not to worry, I was just hoping for a bit of a status update, nothing too serious [20:03] there's also a gnome-doc meeting right now. :) [20:03] I'll post the logs to the ubuntu-doc list [20:03] I'm here for the install guide meeting. [20:03] I'm here [20:03] ok, well i won't be participating in your meeting, I'll read the log though [20:03] j1mc: I know, I'm in it... [20:05] OK, would everyone who's here like to give a brief overview of what they've been working on? [20:06] Awhile back I committed to doing the usb creator docs, so I submitted a draft of that. [20:07] I've started drafting the installation and looking at virtualization option. [20:07] There has been discussion on ubuntu-doc about what to include in the installation guide. [20:07] I can create a different version of those docs for the installation guide or they can be used as is, whatever works. [20:08] And I've started working on the Alternate CD installation instructions by researching Alternate CD use in the forums etc [20:08] I've written a draft of the "What's Next" section I'll email it this week. I'm going to create a page on the wiki with the a list of common problems and links to solutions. [20:08] missaugustina: are you intending to put the Alternate CD stuff in the IG? [20:08] it's already covered by the installation-guide [20:09] There was a section for it in the outline [20:09] When we last met, I said I would work on that section. [20:09] I might be confused though, what was the link to the outline again? [20:09] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/KarmicInstallationGuide#Proposed%20structure [20:10] Getting the Alternate CD / Why would I need the Alternate CD? [20:10] I think I intended that as a brief link out to the Alternate CD stuff, just to let people know that it exists [20:10] Right. [20:10] It's far too much to cover in the current guide, I think [20:11] I agree. I wanted to see what questions people had in the forums and what people were using it for. [20:11] (as far as actually describing the alternate installation procedure goes) [20:11] missaugustina: aha, I'm with you now [20:12] avi1: what's the virtualisation stuff you've been looking at? [20:12] oh, just looking at virtualizing Win 7 for the WUbi install [20:12] instead of showing Wubi with Win XP [20:12] cool [20:12] so that it's a bit more up to date. For WUBI [20:12] which version of Windows should we be targeting? [20:13] XP is still the most common [20:13] My guess is Vista and Win 7 [20:13] True [20:13] I would say Xp, vista and win 7 [20:13] I would search the forums and find out where people have the most questions [20:13] If a lot of current posts are using XP then it should be targeted. [20:14] yeah, I think XP, Vista and 7 make sense [20:14] KelvinGardiner: when we have too many options to cover, I think that we should think about covering the less popular options on the wiki [20:14] 7 isn't out yet but will be out around the same time ... The installation for 7 and Vista should be about the same [20:14] I don't think that covering all 3 makes sense, unless we can do it in an unconfusing and compact way [20:14] what do you think avi1? [20:15] I don't think it's going to take a long time [20:15] but someone probably will need to verify the Vista, I have XP and 7 RC [20:15] but Wubi isn't hard to do [20:16] ok, I was thinking if I had an old machine that couldn't upgrade to win 7, it would probably be an xp machine, I may wish to use wubi to try ubuntu. [20:16] True [20:16] I've got a vista install I give wubi a try. [20:16] I ran Wubi before on the Win 7 beta [20:19] ok, thanks guys [20:19] KelvinGardiner: regarding common problems; what sort of things are you turning up? [20:20] I found type categories of common problems. [20:20] j1mc [20:20] hi [20:20] The first are general issues which I think you listed most of on the wiki. [20:21] j1mc: Are you there?? ;) [20:21] The second are hardware specific issues. For example every ubuntu install on my macbook breaks the headphone sound, which is fixed by turning on the surround sound channel. [20:22] philbull: dhillon-v10 is interested in contributing to ubuntu docs [20:22] shoot [20:22] KelvinGardiner: maybe we should cover hardware-specifics on the wiki and just link to them? [20:22] just missed him [20:22] Most of these issues are covered by the community help page and forums. I think we should point at these pages in the install guide and cover the common ones in detail. [20:22] j1mc: thanks, could you pass his email address on to me, maybe? [20:23] philbull: sure [20:23] That probably makes sense. I've noticed a lot of WiFi issues. They need to be dealt with but using the Wiki is probably the best bet at this stage. [20:24] OK, so hardware issues are probably a wiki thing. [20:24] More generic hardware issues (maybe some graphics or hard disk issues?) we should probably cover in the guide [20:24] KelvinGardiner: did you see my IRC script that I posted on the ubuntu-doc list? [20:25] it might help in rooting out some common problems [20:25] yeah, I've not had chance to try it yet. I try it this week. [20:25] cool, let me know if you have any problems with it [20:25] OK, sounds like we're progressing well with the writing [20:26] Are we going to cover installing restricted graphics drivers? [20:26] I haven't heard from nhandler in a while [20:26] KelvinGardiner: that's covered directly by the system docs, so we should just point there if it's a major problem. [20:26] ok [20:28] hi everyone [20:28] hi dhillon-v10 [20:29] philbull: I have a question for you [20:29] dhillon-v10: sure, shoot [20:29] (IG team guys: anything else you'd like to discuss?) [20:29] philbull: When I get into a room and want help who should I ask [20:30] If this is going on to the karmic cd, when do we need to be done for? [20:31] dhillon-v10: on IRC? it's normally best to ask a question to the whole channel [20:31] dhillon-v10: though it can take a long time for someone to reply [20:31] KelvinGardiner: I think we need to be done by Feature Freeze [20:31] philbull: so just shoot it out... [20:32] KelvinGardiner: 27th August, hmm [20:32] So I think we need *something* by then [20:32] philbull: Can I help [20:32] We need to finish the guide by Doc String Freeze [20:32] Oh, question, how are we dealing with screen shots? [20:33] dhillon-v10: sure, what would you like to help out with? [20:33] Are we going to have a significant amount of screen shots or totally ignore them? Or does that depend. [20:33] philbull: something you guys were talking about just now [20:33] ok, who is sorting out the layout? I think a clear simple layout is needed for the common problems section. [20:33] avi1: they should be used reasonably sparingly [20:34] avi1: they're awkward for translators, but we can figure something out. [20:34] KelvinGardiner: I think that was DB's job [20:35] ok [20:36] dhillon-v10: we're talking about the installation guide at the moment [20:37] philbull: Alright go on [20:37] would you be interested in helping out with the wiki side of the installation docs? [20:37] philbull: ya sure [20:40] once the installation guide is finished, we'll need to look at the wiki pages and see what should be reorganised [20:41] philbull: Alright [20:41] dhillon-v10: would you like to email me and I can send through some details? [20:41] it's philbull AT gmail DOT com [20:42] OK installation guide guys, it seems like everyone is making pretty good progress so far [20:43] any grievances? Questions? [20:43] no [20:43] I'd like to apologise for missing the last meeting. [20:43] Nope [20:43] philbull: Alright I just send you an email [20:43] dhillon-v10: thanks, I'll get back to you ASAP [20:43] philbull: np :) [20:44] OK, if no-one has anything more to discuss about the IG, then we should end the meeting [20:44] I'm pretty pleased so far [20:45] thanks for coming guys :) [20:45] np! [20:46] no problem [20:46] philbull: yah, nice talking to you [22:02] Ok guys, let's get started with the BT Wiki FG meeting [22:02] just FYI guys, the doc-team had a meeting last weekend [22:02] You can find the summary and log here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/DocTeam [22:02] Before we start with the wiki stuff - is anybody also interested in working on system docs? [22:03] not really, I'm pretty happy sticking to wiki atm. Maybe further down the road. [22:03] ok then, let me know in the future if you are [22:03] Moving on - Summer of Documentation [22:04] Rocket2DMn: will do. [22:04] Thank you all for your hard work this summer, a lot of great stuff has been done [22:04] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development [22:04] thank you too Rocket2DMn [22:04] Of course, you can work on any page on the wiki, even if it isn't listed there [22:05] also, you can add any pages to the Available section if you run across a page you think BT members might be able to handle [22:05] Yup, congrats to all, think we covered quite a bit of articles I'll get some more in before I go back in mid September. [22:05] i am still beavering away at the list :) [22:05] Yeah, we'll wind down the SoD in September [22:05] perhaps around Sept 22, that is the weekend at the end of the Summer season [22:06] Although, I fully expect some drop off around Labor day since people will be going back to school [22:06] why do we want to wind it down? [22:06] I recognize that this is all volunteer time, so don't stress yourselves [22:06] well Silver_Fox_ , we can't maintain the Summer of Documentation all year round :) [22:06] Silver_Fox_: summer holiday doesn't last forever, even if some wish it did ^^ [22:07] that's not to say you can't do work, it's just not part of this little project [22:07] okay, just clarifying :) [22:07] we do maintain the community docs all year round :) [22:07] the SoD is really just a way to get people from the BT involved in the wiki [22:07] hey, might even finish the glossary, haha [22:08] Does anybody have any questions? [22:09] i think that is a no [22:09] Ok then, please feel free to interrupt me at any time, but I'll move on [22:09] Not really, I think someone wanted to know what to do with orphans.... [22:09] A page that I've thrown at a couple of you guys is exactly what starcraftman is now mentioning [22:09] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OrphanedPages [22:09] those are pages that aren't linked from anywhere else on the community docs [22:09] a lot of the pages listed there are redirects, so you can ignore those [22:10] i have a question regarding that page [22:10] However, many of those pages need homes, and pages that arent linked from elsewhere arent very useful unless somebody grabs it from google [22:10] go for it Silver_Fox_ [22:10] is it generated by a bot or human? reason i ask is i can see where some of the links could be referenced [22:10] Silver_Fox_, it should be autogenerated [22:11] okay, thank you Rocket2DMn. [22:11] starcraftman asked me to give an example [22:11] I did? Don't think so ><. [22:11] no, maybe it was somebody else [22:12] sorry [22:12] anyway, let's take https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WineServer [22:12] sure. [22:12] if you look at the page history, you will notice that it was only created a year ago, which meant somebody started an independent page [22:12] the main Wine page is here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine [22:13] So what do we do with the WineServer page? [22:13] why dont' you guys tell me what you would do :) [22:13] Link from WINE > WineServer. [22:14] The exact nature of how ya link it about though depends on the pages, the WINE page a bit of a mess as it is. [22:14] check content of wine page first to see if wine server covered [22:14] Yes, there could be content on the WineServer page that isn't covered on the Wine page [22:15] I'm not a Wine expert, but it should be noted that Wine and WineServer are two components of what is generally just viewed as Wine [22:15] perhaps there is content that should specifically remain on the WineServer page, or be moved there from the Wine page [22:16] if somebody were to take on that page, they would need to do some research or already know more about wine than i do :) [22:16] Wineserver page definitely needs to be updated if it's to be linked, last tested on 606 it says. [22:17] I'm more of a VM user tbh. [22:17] yeah starcraftman , after cleanup the links can be added [22:17] Though I have been trying desperately hard to get WINE to make my folding GPU windows client work, no luck though. [22:17] lol [22:18] well, there are other pages like this on the wiki that show us interesting things about what's happening with the wiki [22:18] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PageHits [22:18] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecentChanges [22:18] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex [22:18] hehe, I'm listed a lot on the recent changes one. :) [22:18] There are a couple more i believe, but i dont recall them off the top of my head [22:19] Any questions? [22:19] ok then [22:19] nope, simple enough concept, already linked about 20 or so orphans I thought were worth saving. [22:20] I'm not sure if you are already doing this, but it would be good if you all subscribed to pages that you did serious work on [22:20] then you can act as a maintainer of the page, and see what changes other people make later [22:20] good idea [22:21] Yup, I do that for the ones I rewrite like my backup and the ISO pages. [22:21] are only 3 people here? [22:21] I also want to note that if you work on pages that are important, popular, or probably/might have experts in the subject, you should seek those people out if appropriate to ask for advice about a page, or to let them know that you are working on it [22:21] Silver_Fox_: no [22:22] Silver_Fox_: Only 3 wiki fg members, yup, I think so. Rest are regular doc members. [22:22] remember that this is a community effort and we are working with others to keep documentation up to date [22:22] it is respectful and helpful to talk to others - you can always check to see who has contributed to pages by looking at the Page History [22:23] Rocket2DMn: Right, can always send a post to doc mail list to ask.. [22:23] if you have questions or concerns, you can always take them to the doc-team mailing list, or other lists if appropriate [22:23] exactly starcraftman [22:23] some pages also instruct you not to edit them, so it's good to read them thoroughly too [22:24] yes, those are ones that should be taken to mailing lists. there are only a handful of pages like that though, and are often ones linked from the main ubuntu site or are maintained by project owners [22:25] yeah, I'm thinking council ones mostly (irc council's irc rules, loco council's loco team list) [22:25] those are mostly on wiki.ubuntu.com, which we don't typically deal with [22:25] ah, ok [22:26] does anybody have any questions at all? I am basically out of material. I like to keep these meetings short [22:27] not really, I usually ask ya a question in the bt channel when it comes to me. [22:27] I don't have any questions [22:27] okie dokie then. Of course you can always ask questions later [22:28] Thanks for attending, meeting adjourned! [22:28] no problem [22:28] a pleasure [22:28] now if only bt meetings were at this time :) [22:29] hehe [22:29] it would be a lot easier for me and means i get to bed before 2am [22:29] but yeah... [22:33] Where would I report an... odd, page? [22:35] Snova: odd page? [22:35] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LaunchPad [22:35] Snova: linky? [22:35] I found it linked off of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Git [22:37] Snova: I see what ya mean, originator posted the CoC signed, the next guy was trying to get help... either pranksters or very very lost people. [22:37] hmm i suspect lost [22:38] created back in may i see. does not belong in wiki though [22:39] Silver_Fox_: guess not, I'll mark it for deletion. Covering lp isn't in scope of the wiki.