=== asac_ is now known as asac [01:21] dtchen, my sound is slightly jerkier while playing a movie now (was fine before). and a lot jerky in openarena, like 1/2 sec of sound, 1/2 sec of silence, that's painful for the brain :P [01:22] try appending the following to /etc/security/limits.conf: [01:22] @audio - rtprio 99 [01:22] @audio - nice -19 [01:22] @audio - memlock unlimited [01:23] then, killall pulseaudio and let it autospawn [01:24] that mimics what rtkit will do [01:24] (however, rtkit is blocked on some linux patches that aren't in karmic's linux) [01:39] dtchen, slightly better, but not much [01:40] fta: does disabling glitch-free help? [01:40] dtchen, where is that? [01:40] you'll have to modify /etc/pulse/default.pa [01:42] ugh, i need to patch this messy conffile [01:42] anyhow, comment out the udev stuff [01:43] you'll want module-alsa-sink tsched=0 [01:44] ok, retrying [01:49] back in a few hours [01:57] it seems better but it's difficult to say, all the players are gone [02:01] well, no. mplayer has no more sound [02:01] AO: [pulse] Init failed: Connection refused [02:01] Failed to initialize audio driver 'pulse' [02:01] Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound. [02:01] Audio: no sound === ripps_ is now known as ripps === micahg1 is now known as micahg [11:02] micahg: righto [11:02] hi [11:02] I was wondering if you discussing duping of the metasearch bugs with asac [11:02] *multisearch [11:03] micahg: nope, I combined the "lack of trust" bugs, because AFAICT the only realistic outcome that would solve the "lack of trust" is revision of the statistics gathering code [11:04] what about the others? generally, we try to keep 1 issue per bug [11:04] micahg: The "lack of trust" bug can be closed one of three ways (a) Invalid (b) Won't Fix (c) Fix Released---all of which would be untrue [11:05] although having a separate "lack of trust" bug was more of let's have a rant bug vs a feature bug [11:06] micahg: because it's clearly not invalid (it has happened), it's rude to say soething can't be fixed, and it is a lie to say that (something that has already happened, in the past) is undoable/fixable [11:06] ok, but you merged in the language funcationality as well + the cache links [11:06] micahg: the rest of the bug all related (AFAICT) to reduced functionality on the CSE results page [11:07] micahg: the only way to restore that functionality is to not use CSE [11:07] yes, but asac wanted one bug per issue so that they can all be fixed [11:07] why? [11:07] can't CSE be enhanced? [11:07] micahg: think about who is inserting the cache links [11:07] google? [11:07] yes [11:08] so, can't we pull the same links from google when we pull the results? [11:08] so it is not soething that "we" can fix in an enhanced CSE teplate [11:08] micahg: you could have a cse.ubuntu.com hosted on ubuntu's servers that wget'ed the real result, added some adverts and returned that page [11:09] well, I can't argue as I don't know, but I think you should check with asac as to how the bugs should be duped, I'm just going based on what he told me when this mess started [11:09] that's all, I can't say right or wrong [11:10] micahg: however (a) that violates Google's T&C (IIRC) (b) it then has avoided passing the partner-ID (which defaults the whole point of the exercise) [11:10] s/defaults/defeats/ [11:10] right [11:10] I hear ya [11:11] I'm still shocked at the backlash for an alpha release [11:12] micahg: I have written to the Technical Board, requesting that they find a way of passing the partner ID through the User Agent, or another parameter (as Mozilla Corp do) such that CSE is not used as poor-man's and technically inferior method merely to attempt to gain revenue-share/statistics [11:12] micahg: not really, I say it go past when it was first filed and throught ("...that might blow up") [11:12] s/say/saw/ [11:13] It was more than just revenue though [11:14] micahg: attepting to gather statistics whilst breaking functionality such that people have to adapt and change their behaviour is self-defeating---we have a model for how to do such data collection *right* and it's called popcon [11:15] ok, well, I just triage bugs... [11:15] micahg: the data-set that is being collective will be useless, if little more than identicative because everyone is going to end up doing a search twice, or changing their front page, or disabling it [11:15] * micahg is not the one to have this discussion with [11:15] micahg: sorry, should have prefixed that with (IMHO) [11:17] micahg: if there were any bugs that weren't only-solvable-by-reversion, I will have left those as separate [11:17] it's a pity this didn't break 24 hours earlier when they were all still at the sprint [11:18] what didn't break? [11:18] the lwn article? [11:18] s/break/the story hitting the frontpages/ [11:18] ah [11:18] yeah [11:19] ok, it's after 5AM [11:19] I must get some sleep [11:19] micahg: sleep well! [11:19] thanks and nice to meet you [11:20] and if you want to discuss specifics, you can chat with asac Mon morning European time [12:24] bom dia [12:30] asac: YOU BROKE NM [12:30] :p [12:30] now more 3G for me with ppa trunk [12:31] network-manager: Installed: 0.8~a~git.20090804t185522.4bab334-0ubuntu1 [12:31] modemmanager: Installed: 0.2.git.20090806t105932.354a4cb-0ubuntu2 [14:09] hmmm ... multisearch got on slashdot ;) http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/07/1521208/Ubuntus-New-Firefox-Is-Watching-You [14:20] ok i will be back in 4 hours ... getting some rest too now [14:35] fta: thx for the default transition ... just got asked for migrating my profile ;) [14:35] ok now out [14:40] hey asac [14:40] darn [14:40] missed him [15:08] lol [15:11] don't lauh [15:11] you chromium is having trouble restarting [15:11] I just lost an entire session [15:11] :\ [15:12] file a bug [15:12] wfm [15:13] sure it works for me too [15:13] but at least once it failed , closed on it self after start up [15:34] ok back for a bit [15:34] then dinner ;) [15:35] dinner already asac? [15:35] its like 3pm [15:35] fta: seems jamie updated ia32libs ... and with the nspluginwrapper system lib flash seems to work [15:35] BUGabundo: well i had no lunch and breakfast ;) [15:35] ahh [15:35] i am down to one meal a day now [15:35] fta: we just need to drop atk-bridge [15:35] hm [15:35] fta: if you wanted to add more stuff, try again [15:36] its odd. i had the same fix on your ia32libs and that didnt work. [15:36] i'll have a look [15:36] what did he do?? just run the update script? [15:36] ENOCLUE [15:37] it was just broken similar to before [15:37] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/ia32-libs/2.7ubuntu8 [15:37] * SECURITY UPDATE: Refresh packages which pulls in recent NSS fixes [15:37] i would think he ran that script [15:38] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/nspluginwrapper/1.2.2-0ubuntu6 [15:50] fta: he says he run update script. so it was really me messing up my system libs approach i guess [15:50] for nspluginwrapper [15:51] [jdstrand_(jamie@canonical-cloaked-98845F8F.austtx.dsl-w.verizon.net)] with ia32-libs-- yes. checked that the sources file in the script was right, ran the update, built it, tested it [15:52] well, nspluginwrapper was broken for me too [15:52] ok out now ... taking a walk in the heat and getting lunch/dinner [15:52] fta: yes. [15:52] fta: but i had the system libs fix [15:52] its even committed what i had before [15:52] but not uploaded [15:52] as it didnt work for me [15:52] i don't understand then [15:52] today i redid it [15:53] thats why i say that apparently the nspluginwrapper system lib fix i previously made must have have a bug [15:53] so what we should do now is add the plugins link and remove atk-bridge from the ia32-libs [15:54] err gtk-20 plugins link i mean [15:55] ok bbi an hour [16:35] is it just me, or has firefox gotten dramatically slower with very large numbers of tabs open in the last couple releases? [16:42] cwillu: not that I know, but I have some script killing gmail and some input forms [16:42] can't seem to find what it is. though it was a addon but even with all disable it happens [16:46] really, setinterval and settimeout need to die and be replaced by something that doesn't allow a activity while the tab isn't displayed. And comet needs to be nerfed in a similar fashion [16:56] BUGabundo: we have NM trunk now in archive [16:56] asac: ok [16:56] so no need to run ppa for now [16:56] *** 0.8~a~git.20090804t185522.4bab334-0ubuntu1 0 [16:56] 0.8~a~git.20090804t185522.4bab334-0ubuntu1~nmt1 0 [16:56] ack [16:56] its using archive [16:57] *** 0.2.git.20090806t105932.354a4cb-0ubuntu2 0 [16:57] 0.2.git.20090806t105932.354a4cb-0ubuntu1~mm1 0 [16:57] MM too [16:57] BUGabundo: downgrading modemmanager version to previous works? [16:57] but it broke 3G [16:57] can't connect [16:57] no idea [16:57] let me try [16:57] yeah check whether its NM or mm update that broke it [16:59] chromium-browser_3.0.198.0~svn20090809r22886.orig.tar.gz (146 bytes) [16:59] pff [17:00] quantum compression ;) [17:00] lol [17:01] svn: Server sent unexpected return value (502 Bad Gateway) in response to OPTIONS request for 'http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src' [17:01] hmm ... transparent proxy` [17:01] ? [17:01] or just broken [17:02] dpkg: warning: downgrading modemmanager from 0.2.git.20090806t105932.354a4cb-0ubuntu2 to 0.2.git.20090806t105932.354a4cb-0ubuntu1~mm1. [17:03] no [17:03] tthe last version was far before [17:03] check for superseded builds in ppa [17:03] 20090806 -> same as in archive [17:03] hey you broke skype ? [17:03] $ skype [17:03] ALSA lib ../../src/conf.c:2700:(snd_config_hooks_call) Cannot open shared library libasound_module_conf_pulse.so [17:03] ALSA lib ../../../src/control/control.c:909:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL hw:0 [17:03] Aborted (core dumped) [17:04] asac, it's one of the european cache [17:04] BUGabundo: try to downgrade ia32-libs please [17:05] one thing at a time [17:05] now MM [17:05] checking my cache for old packages [17:08] BUGabundo: go to ppa ... select superseded (or obsolete not sure) builds and you can grab the .deb [17:12] got to use PPA [17:12] cache only has the two last deb s:( [17:26] asac, so, ff 3.5, good enough to go to karmic? [17:30] fta: havent verified it yet in depth [17:30] just noticed that it got migrated ;) [17:33] fta: did you check what happens with the firefox link if we upgrade/reinstall ffox 3.0 ? [17:33] hm, no [17:33] fta: why do you replace firefox-3.0-branding? [17:33] (firefox-3.5-branding) [17:34] hmm ok the .desktop file [17:34] [Fri 07 19:50] trying to overwrite `/usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop', which is also in package firefox-3.0-branding [17:34] yep [17:34] hmm. thats a problem for daily/backports [17:35] as it will just replace the 3.0 one and we cannot rename it in 3.0 to -3.0 [17:35] eh? [17:35] fta: firefox-3.0 ships /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop [17:36] in karmic we can rename it to firefox-3.5 ... thats okj [17:38] asac: if firefox-3.5 replaces firefox , will version3.0 exist or be removed? [17:38] in the end it will be removed. but it shouldnt be necessarily be required [17:38] especially since we want to use the same packaging if possible in backports [17:38] like in our dailies: we just build .head [17:39] asac: apport bugs dont go through... :( sometimes even when firefox3.5 is open [17:39] yeah. i will add the band-aid soon [17:39] i temporarily make v3.0 the default and send the bugs [17:39] mac_v: it should always work if its open [17:39] i haven never seen the X bug at least [17:40] !info telepathy-butterfly [17:40] telepathy-butterfly (source: telepathy-butterfly): MSN connection manager for telepathy. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.0-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 20 kB, installed size 228 kB [17:40] asac: does work sometimes , but several times it doesnt [17:41] feels odd [17:41] but opening links always works ... e.g. from terminal with right click` [17:41] (if already open that is) [17:41] ? [17:41] yeah... all those work, with no problem , only apport has problems [17:44] asac: Bug #403581 , is partly fixed , when can we expect the button to be fixed? [17:44] Launchpad bug 403581 in ubufox "restart required notification and button not shown in ffox 3.5" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403581 [17:44] mac_v: its not fixed at all. the restart required notification would be in firefox and always would have a restart button [17:45] i hink you confuses it with the old update-notifier notification you get in tray [17:45] which is only there because of kde folks that dont have ubufox [17:45] asac: nope... fta fixed it [17:45] i got the prompt this time [17:46] fta uploaded ubufox? feels unlikely given that he doesnt use it ;) [17:46] no [17:46] not ubufox , firefox [17:46] mac_v: the notification the bug is about has nothing to do with firefox [17:46] i don't touch ubufox at all, i'm not even using it [17:46] mac_v: where did you see the notification. how did it look like? [17:47] was it a notificaiton in the system tray? [17:47] and a dialog that told you to restart? [17:47] i fixed the update-notifier thing [17:47] yes [17:47] thats not a bug [17:47] err it is ;) [17:47] but not the bug from above ;) [17:47] asac: my bug got unnecessarily marked as a dup of yours then! [17:48] fta: you think we can make the notification not display if ubufox is installed? [17:48] though to be proper it should only not happen if all users havent disabled it ;) [17:48] actually all user profiles currently active [17:48] asac, tough, in my case, it's installed, but disabled [17:48] i can't remove it because of ubuntu-desktop (iirc) [17:48] yeah. but do you care about that notification? [17:48] asac: your bug is about the tray notification? [17:49] mac_v: read what i wrote ;)= [17:49] its about ubufox notification that gets displayed in firefox itself [17:49] and has a restart button [17:50] asac, it's not that i care about it, it was there but broken. i fixed it. if it's no longer useful, it should be removed but that's another topic [17:50] oh... i never used ubufox.. i'm not even sure how that notification looks :( [17:50] fta: sure. just aking you if you think its ok to be removed [17:50] mac_v: then you cannot have a restart button [17:50] e.g. your bug is fixed [17:51] asac, ihmo, it's useful for the dailies, as you end-up with broken menus, xul/xml errors, and other bad things if you don't restart [17:52] silly question: what does ubufox actually provide? [17:52] well. its useful for all ... problem is that its usually far to late to properly restart if you see it [17:52] which is why we do the ubufox restart [17:52] asac: i'm confused... the update notifier did display a dialogue after update , [17:52] but with only an OK button! [17:52] cwillu: ubuntu integration stuff: [17:52] 1. restart notification with button to restart firefox if you upgrade firefox [17:52] 2. ubuntu plugin finder database with all plugins available in ubuntu properly integrated [17:53] 3. plugin alternative selector that allows you to switch plugins if you have more than one installed for a mime-type .. [17:53] 4. plugin alternative selector also allows you to search for more plugins even if you already have one installed [17:53] ah, k [17:54] 5. extension integration -> a link in addons -> get extensions that opens a special ubuntu app-install window with all (or almost all) extensions in teh archive [17:54] ubuntu homepage by default [17:54] is 6 [17:54] 7. also the report a bug and translation menu as well as release notes menu entry is hosted there [17:55] i think thats the main features ... could have missed one or another [17:56] 1. is certainly most important because otherwise upgrades bust your running firefox instances with you thinking firefox is broken [17:57] asac: i thought firefox does that on its own, [17:57] no [17:58] mac_v, unless you mean firefox's internal updater, which we don't use afaik [17:58] which we cannot use [17:58] i would love to integrate that with our packing system [17:58] but would require policykit integration and some work [17:58] also its non-trivial if you think about linux as a multi user system where the admin upgrades the packages [17:58] and you have multiple versions running for lots of userse [17:58] think about it [17:59] e.g. their updater is only working for single users installs [17:59] oh... [18:00] what you basically would need is that apt calls all firefox instances _before_ the upgrade ... and then firefox locks all UI that wasnt open yet [18:00] until you restart [18:00] once apt gets feedback that all UIs are locked you would continue with unpack etc. [18:00] asac: why not run the updates after firefox closes? [18:00] mac_v: think about it. you run apt-get dist-upgrade ... you cannot wait till all firefox instances are closed [18:00] 1st. users wont understand that [18:01] 2nd. if you have multi users systems admin would need to killall firefox [18:01] in order to install security issues [18:01] killall is scary [18:01] we really put a lot of thoughts into this one. [18:01] asac: just an idea > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/UpdateIssues#Firefox%20Updates: , is this feasible? [18:01] so ubufox solution is best available for now [18:01] ah, so should I undup mac_v's bug? [18:01] everything else would require serious upstream codes [18:01] and leave a feature request for the tray? [18:02] micahg: yes. his bug is fixed [18:02] micahg: but soon we will remove that feature completely [18:02] micahg: mine is *not* for the tray.. [18:02] oh [18:02] it's for inside FF [18:02] then it's fixed like asac said :) [18:02] micahg: the ubufox is the one inside firefox [18:03] maybe it is a dup... i'm confused ... i have too many extensions everythins behaves different! [18:03] (my bug) [18:03] the tray notification never had a feature for restart [18:03] asac: I just subscribe to ubufox bugs [18:03] it wasnt displayed until fta fixed it [18:03] (not in the archive yet) [18:03] I noticed one about flashblock that could be causing most of the issues with flash [18:03] micahg: the flashblock bug is just that ubufox plugin finder alternative stays disabled if flashblock is used [18:04] shouldnt hurt anyone [18:04] yes, but then if you have 2 flash plugins, flash borks [18:04] just no plugin finder for that ;) [18:04] micahg: yeah ... that could cause confusion. but in fact i think we should change the icon color [18:04] so people actually see it [18:04] i made a quick survey during sprint and most folks there didnt know the switcher existed [18:05] what switcher? [18:05] ;-) [18:05] since the icon is displayed when you are on a side with content i am sure that the switcher is just never seen ;) [18:05] asac: about the wiki idea , is it not feasible even with upstream work ? [18:05] Nafallo: go to a video.google.com thing [18:05] asac: no. stop it. it was a troll :-) [18:05] Nafallo: with flashblock disabled and see the plugin icon at the lower right button in status bar [18:05] Nafallo: haha [18:06] I use it extensively :-) [18:06] mac_v: even not with upstream work. upgrades must not hold because user does not confirm a dialog [18:06] mac_v: requirement is that users are safe even without running update on their own [18:06] and upgrades not run by the user itself must never wait for a user [18:06] oh... ok... [18:07] mac_v: one could make the dialog display and count down for 10 seconds. but that wouldnt help users that dont look at the screen at that point etc., [18:07] asac: I'm thinking bug 402796 might be an ubufox flashblock conflict [18:07] Launchpad bug 402796 in firefox-3.0 "flash player not installing, utube and other video not playing" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402796 [18:08] mac_v: if people are on slower connections, they might start and upgrade and go get lunch [18:08] really. we thought quite a lot of it and the behaviour i described hopefully will get implemented at some point ;) [18:08] my suggestion was because upgrades installing while FF was running just borks FF [18:09] but it requires a good amount of coding ... i hope karmic+1 can fix this issue for real :) [18:09] well something better needs to be done though [18:09] if people aren't slaves to their computers, if you're lucky they might start the upgrade and do something else. Odds are they'll just do something else and skip that annoying "start the upgrade" bit :p [18:09] btw , why is everyone on Bug #402767 out for your blood specifically? AFAIK its not your decision alone [18:09] Launchpad bug 402767 in firefox-3.5 "multisearch CSE breaks l18n+setfocus+images+cached+I'm feeling lucky functionality and "violates user trust"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402767 [18:10] mac_v: people just rant. most people ranting most loud i am sure are not even running karmic yet [18:10] oh asac, I wanted to ask you about the dups for that bug [18:11] did you want the cache links and i18n issues separate [18:11] i didnt want anything to get duped together [18:11] thought so... [18:11] so those bugs dont get a huge amount of CCs [18:11] I'll fix [18:11] but now its lost i think [18:11] hehe... i was just surprised it existed ,realized that it was there and just disabled it... i dont get the big fuss at all [18:11] nah, it was 1 guy [18:11] micahg: its too late. all the dupes already brought the subscribers [18:11] so keep them [18:11] yeah. i think that had to come. so not a big deal [18:11] ok [18:11] as long as we didnt do it, there is not much we can do :) [18:11] now they can talk to death there [18:11] ok [18:12] can we get back to other bugs now? [18:12] i will close it when we start to address things [18:12] ok [18:12] and if people are unhappy that their aspect isnt fixed they need to open a new bug [18:12] thats how it is ;) [18:12] do you think bug 402796 can be a flashblock -> ubufox conflict? [18:12] Launchpad bug 402796 in firefox-3.0 "flash player not installing, utube and other video not playing" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402796 [18:13] micahg: what is the problem? i see he has all plugins installed [18:13] and uses seamonkey? [18:13] for seamonkey he has to use the mozilla-flashplugin alternative [18:13] there is no ubufox [18:14] I think he was just trying to get something that works [18:14] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29480233/Screenshot.png [18:14] original report was firefox [18:14] what has that thing todo with it? [18:14] hmm [18:14] maybe its the gnash automatic codec dialog [18:14] feels like a gst bug [18:14] gnash isn't installed, swfdec-mozilla is [18:14] please subscribe mvo [18:14] and point him to the screenshot [18:15] should I just commnet in the bug or tell him on irc? [18:16] maybe swfdec mozilla triggers that codec auto install thing now too [18:17] i think its a datapackage that probably doesnt point to the right gst code version [18:17] like app-install-data maybe [18:17] let me check [18:17] for fear of returning to the forgotton subject: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugReportersStrike [18:19] i dont see anyone having signed that [18:19] i dont think its ok to create such a page on behalf of other community members [18:19] +1 [18:19] we should rename it to Vincenzo CianciasStrike [18:20] SHould I do it? [18:20] who's in charge of the wiki? [18:20] only if you want. i cannot change it because they will claim me acting against free speech or something [18:21] well, let's let the wiki owner do it [18:21] who would that be? [18:21] good question [18:21] noone owns the wiki afaik [18:21] its completely community driven [18:21] admins? [18:21] well. admins like in server admins technically own it, but not political. not sure if there is [18:22] a ubuntu team that officially owns it [18:22] most likeyl ubuntu-doc [18:22] but i think anyone can do that [18:22] one could also send him a mail and ask him to do that ;) [18:23] $ xpath -q -e '//RDF:Description[@RDF:about="urn:mozilla:item:ubufox@ubuntu.com"]/@NS1:userDisabled' ~/.mozilla/firefox/*.default/extensions.rdf [18:23] NS1:userDisabled="true" [18:23] hm, doesn't work on my other boxes. [18:23] fta: that could work. but we also should check if the profile has a lock file [18:23] e.g. that means that its running [18:23]