[00:39] <MDC2> how about this? http://www.mejlamej.nu/spinner-startup.png
[11:55]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[16:03] <mccann> hey djsiegel1 
[16:03] <djsiegel1> hey mccann, I am a bit busy right now, can I ping you back later?
[16:03] <mccann> sure just curious how your wallpaper contest thing is coming?
[16:03] <mccann> anytime is fine
[18:43] <mrooney> djsiegel2: hey, looks like bug 307621 is being fixed upstream, so that could be assigned to a papercut milestone!
[18:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 307621 in hundredpapercuts "Pressing enter key in print to file "Name" box does not print" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/307621
[18:43] <djsiegel2> mrooney: haha, great
[18:44] <mrooney> how is that stuff going overall?
[18:45] <djsiegel2> mrooney: it's ok
[18:45] <djsiegel2> mrooney: would like it if more people were driving it
[18:45] <djsiegel2> you want to help out/
[18:46] <djsiegel2> ?
[18:48] <mac_v> mrooney: i think there already is a papercut > Bug #164298
[18:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 164298 in ubuntu "Print to file should say "Export to PDF" instead of "Print to PDF"" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164298
[18:48] <djsiegel2> mac_v that one is different
[18:48] <mac_v> oh... ok
[18:48] <djsiegel2> mrooney: can you help forward rounds 5 and 6 upstream?
[18:49] <djsiegel2> if you find paper cuts not linked to upstreams, will you please link? would help me out a lot
[18:49] <mrooney> I can give it a shot!
[18:49] <djsiegel2> awesome, thank you so much
[18:49] <mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #394184 has been fixed upstream and also in karmic now
[18:49] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 394184 in hundredpapercuts "Simplify the file roller post-extraction dialogue window" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394184
[18:49] <djsiegel2> I am blogging about rounds 5 and 6 today
[18:50] <maco> djsiegel2: what determines whether a papercut gets on the list on your blog posts?
[18:50] <maco> djsiegel2: i assumed fix date, but it seems not
[18:50] <djsiegel2> maco: no, I just split the 100 into 10 milestones of 10
[18:50] <djsiegel2> weekly milestones
[18:50] <djsiegel2> and I just blog about ten at a time
[18:50] <mrooney> well bug 19586 is fixed, shall I mark the paper cuts task as released?
[18:50] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 19586 in hundredpapercuts "When nautilus cannot unmount a media, it must tell why." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19586
[18:50] <djsiegel2> mrooney: sure
[18:51] <mac_v> mrooney: i think djsiegel2  likes them marked as "Fix Commited"
[18:51] <djsiegel2> maco: I have been blogging after the milestones, but I really should before -- the blog posts get a lot of eyeballs on the bug reports, and serve as a good final push to get things fixed
[18:51] <djsiegel2> mac_v mrooney I was told Fix Released is fine
[18:52] <mac_v> ;p unstable fella djsiegel2 
[18:52] <maco> djsiegel2: ah. so if a papercut isnt milestoned, it doesnt get blogged, right?
[18:52] <djsiegel2> maco right
[18:52] <djsiegel2> I have blogged about some paper cuts that have been un-milestoned after being invalidated
[18:52] <djsiegel2> like the nautilus toolbar changes
[18:52] <mrooney> the problem with committed is that no one remembers to change them all when the devel version is released
[18:52] <djsiegel2> maco: if a paper cut is not milestoned, it's not 1 of the 100 we are focusing on for karmic
[18:53] <maco> djsiegel2: i see. kubuntu has a goal of 10 papercuts, but AFAIK none of them are milestoned
[18:53] <ScottK> maco: Unfortunately 100papercuts is apparently Gnome/Canonical only so no one else can add the milestone.
[18:53] <djsiegel2> not true
[18:53] <mac_v> ah... i was wondering when ScottK would pop-in about kde ;p
[18:53] <djsiegel2> I just haven;t had a chance to talk to seele recently
[18:54] <djsiegel2> but we have a weird setup where the canonical design team owns the project
[18:54] <djsiegel2> which we want to change so it's community run
[18:54] <ScottK> djsiegel2: My impression from talking to her (and it may be wrong) was that non-Canonical people wouldn't be added.
[18:54] <mac_v> ScottK: actually even kde is part of papercuts
[18:54] <djsiegel2> this is just the beta release of the project
[18:54] <djsiegel2> ScottK: well, now you are talking to the guy running the project
[18:54] <ScottK> djsiegel2: I understand that.
[18:54] <djsiegel2> :)
[18:54]  * ScottK had it on his TODO to discuss it.
[18:54] <djsiegel2> It's a goal for us to get a papercutters team going
[18:55] <djsiegel2> with people like mac_v and mrooney and others on it
[18:55] <djsiegel2> so the paper cuts project can be a proper project
[18:57] <mrooney> if I could mark paper cuts as Triaged I could help more :)
[18:58] <ScottK> Well starting a team in Launchpad takes about a minute.
[18:58] <beuno> djsiegel2, I think if we assign a team as a bug supervisor
[18:58] <beuno> they can set bugs to triaged
[18:58] <beuno> they don;t need to own the project
[18:58] <beuno> so it should be pretty easy to start a papercutters team that can mark 'em as triaged
[18:59] <mrooney> yes indeed
[19:00] <beuno> djsiegel2, say the word and I'll make it happen
[19:00] <djsiegel2> beuno: what does it entail?
[19:00] <djsiegel2> can they do more than set bugs to triaged?
[19:01] <djsiegel2> that doesn't seem useful enough
[19:01] <beuno> djsiegel2, right, that role is just around the bugs
[19:01] <beuno> what else is there?
[19:01] <beuno> probably target bugs to milestones as well, but I think anyone can do that now?
[19:02] <ScottK> No, actually people can't.  That's why some of the Kubuntu bugs didn't get milestoned.
[19:02] <beuno> ok, then that's the second problem we solve
[19:06] <djsiegel2> beuno: ok, great, do it please
[19:06]  * beuno does it
[19:06] <ScottK> djsiegel2: It was my impression that when 100papercuts got started it was limited to Ubuntu the release (i.e. Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Server) and that if other Ubuntu flavors, such as Kubuntu, wanted to participate they would have to do so with their own resources.
[19:07] <ScottK> I'd be glad to find out that's not correct.
[19:07] <djsiegel2> ScottK: so, the only non-community "resources" atm are attention from canonical-ux and my pushing on bugs
[19:07] <djsiegel2> the former has been extremely minimal
[19:07] <djsiegel2> basically nothing
[19:08] <beuno> djsiegel2, papercuts-taskforce?
[19:08] <djsiegel2> and the latter is just me, and I can push on 10 GNOME and 1 KDE paper cut per week (I am barely keeping up)
[19:08] <beuno> does that sound right?
[19:08] <djsiegel2> beuno: papercutters ?
[19:08] <ScottK> OK, well my impression was that Canonical UX limited itself to Gnome.
[19:08] <beuno> djsiegel2, I thought so, but it implies we create the papercuts, no?
[19:08] <ScottK> ... for papercuts.
[19:08] <djsiegel2> ScottK: yes, the lions share of our design attention goes to GNOME as far as 100pc is concern
[19:09] <djsiegel2> but what is 90% of 2 hours of work?
[19:09] <djsiegel2> ScottK: how would you restructure our time so that you would "be glad"?
[19:09] <djsiegel2> beuno: no, I think it's cool
[19:10] <djsiegel2> papercuts-taskforce sounds fine too
[19:10] <beuno> djsiegel2, roger
[19:10] <djsiegel2> your call
[19:11] <ScottK> djsiegel2: I think that as long as you define your communications in terms of the entire Ubuntu project then it'll be fine.  It's a bit confusing to overload the term Ubuntu to mean both the entire project and one specific flavor that the project releases.
[19:11] <ScottK> So it's quite possible you meant Ubuntu the project the whole time, but I just didn't read it that way.
[19:11] <djsiegel2> I am looking for specific feedback on how I am running 100ppc
[19:11] <djsiegel2> I don't really understand the finer point about calling "Ubuntu+GNOME" Ubuntu?
[19:12] <djsiegel2> mrooney mac_v please join http://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
[19:12] <ScottK> When you say 100ppc is working on Ubuntu do you mean all of the Ubuntu project or just ubuntu-desktop?
[19:12] <djsiegel2> I mean ubuntu-desktop
[19:13] <djsiegel2> I wouldn't say we work "on" Ubuntu the project
[19:13] <djsiegel2> we are fixing code
[19:13] <ScottK> On may not be the best word there.
[19:13] <djsiegel2> it's 90% ubuntu-desktop, 10% kubuntu-desktop
[19:13] <djsiegel2> if you'd rather I use package names than "Ubuntu" and "Kubuntu"
[19:14] <djsiegel2> I had a discussion with seele and the desktop team at the very start
[19:14] <ScottK> The confusing bit is that both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop are part of Ubuntu.
[19:14] <djsiegel2> that is the balance we agreed upon for this first cycle
[19:14] <ScottK> OK.
[19:14] <djsiegel2> ScottK: well, that's not in my power
[19:14] <ScottK> Certainly.
[19:14] <beuno> djsiegel2, done
[19:14] <djsiegel2> beuno: awesome
[19:14] <beuno> https://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
[19:15] <djsiegel2> beuno: who moderates?
[19:15] <beuno> add anyone you like, or applicants will notify us
[19:15] <beuno> djsiegel2, canonical-ux
[19:15] <beuno> owns the team
[19:15] <djsiegel2> can you please accept seele, mac_v, mrooney as soon as they apply?
[19:15] <djsiegel2> I will tell seele she can triage the paperkuts
[19:16] <beuno> sure
[19:16] <mac_v> djsiegel2: sure...
[19:16] <beuno> I've added mac_v already
[19:16] <djsiegel2> :)
[19:16] <beuno> mac_v, can you verify that you can mark bugs as triaged?
[19:16] <ScottK> djsiegel2: Making it so that someone who is paying attention to Kubuntu can triage and milestone papercuts is a good step forward.
[19:16] <djsiegel2> ScottK: I am only doing it because I am so swamped with work and I want seele to do it! :)
[19:17] <mac_v> beuno: yup... works
[19:17] <mac_v> :)
[19:17] <beuno> awesome
[19:20] <djsiegel2> mrooney: I can't confirm a fix for enter-to-print-to-file in Karmic
[19:21] <djsiegel2> is it not synced yet?
[19:27] <djsiegel2> mrooney: can you please upstream this one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/344228
[19:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 344228 in hundredpapercuts "Deleting an image that's used as a desktop wallpaper removed it as a wallpaper without notice" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[19:43] <mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #388949 , round 1 bug ,  seems to have stalled, upstream wants discussion to be done on the mailing list?
[19:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
[19:58] <mac_v> beuno: certain bugs invalid papercuts are producing a lot of spam , since they are active in their respective projects , shall i switch the papercut to the NULL project?
[20:00] <beuno> mac_v, yes, that's a good idea
[20:00] <mac_v> \o/
[20:02] <ScottK> mac_v: How will people know they've already been evaluated as a papercut then?
[20:03] <maco> leave a comment saying "not a papercut"?
[20:03] <maco> or just give yourself an email filter that filters out all mails that say "you are receiving because you are subscribed the OneHundredPapercuts project" and also have "OneHundredPapercuts: status => invalid"
[20:03] <maco> (or whatever the proper syntax is)
[20:06] <ScottK> Status is only in the mail if it changes.
[20:07] <maco> oh
[20:19] <mac_v> ScottK: the papercut has been invalid and explained why it is not a papercut... but even after a month the mail arrives , 
[20:20] <ScottK> mac_v: I understand the problem.  There's an outstanding LP request for a feature to be able to unsubscribe from bugs one is implicitly subscribed to.  This is, IMO, the proper solution to the problem.
[20:20] <mac_v> surely +1 for that
[20:21] <mac_v> maco:  i have filters set for each status , but some user ask for explanations for invalid papercuts , hence i need to reply , if all get clumped then the users wont be fully satisfied
[20:22] <maco> gotcha
[22:00] <mrooney> djsiegel2: I like the "These paper cuts are behind schedule and could use your attention..." section
[22:00] <djsiegel2> mrooney: thanks
[22:00] <djsiegel2> I was surprised it was only 2
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel2 - i just closed the gnome-applets task on bug 387874 - this applet has been removed in karmic now
[22:04] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 387874 in hundredpapercuts "Downscrolling should decrease, not increase volume" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387874
[22:04] <djsiegel2> chrisccoulson: ok, great
[22:04] <djsiegel2> thank you
[22:05] <mac_v> djsiegel2: : but the notification applet? how does it behave? [i'v removed it from my setup so cant check]
[22:06] <djsiegel2> mac_v: hmm?
[22:06] <mac_v> djsiegel2: the volume notification applet
[22:06] <mac_v> does it scroll?
[22:07] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - the volume control applet? yes, it scrolls (and in the correct directions)
[22:07] <mac_v> djsiegel2: so thats fixed then?
[22:07] <djsiegel2> mac_v: right, there's no longer a goofy scrolling-down-turns-volume-up bug
[22:07] <mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #388949 , round 1 bug ,  seems to have stalled, upstream wants discussion to be done on the mailing list?
[22:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
[22:08] <mac_v> the patch is done but waiting
[22:08] <djsiegel2> mac_v: then we will just carry a patch, that's so small
[22:08] <djsiegel2> mac_v, will you talk to seb128 about the patch?
[22:08] <mac_v> ok
[22:08] <djsiegel2> thank you
[22:08] <djsiegel2> "Arrange by Name" < "Rearrange by Name" >
[22:08] <djsiegel2> ?
[22:09] <djsiegel2> I heard a good argument for using "Rearrange" instead of "Arrange"
[22:09] <djsiegel2> I think "Arrange" is a lot better than "Clean up..." though
[22:10] <mac_v> djsiegel2: "Arrange" is better, i *hate* words with a re suffix!
[22:12] <mac_v> djsiegel2: can you join #ubuntu-desktop? seb is available and wants some clarification
[22:14] <mac_v> djsiegel2:  <seb128> mac_v, I'm not really in favor of that, that would break all translations[02:41] <seb128> mac_v, especially that djsiegel comment upstream suggest it's not so clear <mac_v> seb128: so , its a wishlist until upstream decides?[02:42] <seb128> I would prefer having somebody to engage this discussion as requested upstream before we change
[22:14] <mac_v>  <seb128> that would avoid breaking all translations and having to explain to upstream later why we didnt do what they asked for and changed in ubuntu only
[22:17] <djsiegel2> mac_v yeah 1 sec
[22:21] <mac_v> djsiegel2: also have a look at this one > Bugs #400047 , i'v attached the screenshot , if the description is clear to you then invalidate it , IMO it could be refined a bit
[22:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in ubiquity "[Ubiquity]Partitioner can be more properly worded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400047
[22:21] <mrooney> djsiegel2: should bug 363532 be a dupe of bug 290204 and have the milestone updated?
[22:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 363532 in ubuntu "Several system beeps on shutdown" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363532
[22:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 290204 in hundredpapercuts "Annoying beep on shutdown using "System -> Shut down..."" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290204
[22:22] <mrooney> ie have 290204 be milestone 5 and marked fix released
[22:22] <djsiegel2> mrooney: yeah, I was unsure about that
[22:23] <djsiegel2> mrooney: yes, those are dupes
[22:23] <djsiegel2> can you consolidate and schedule them in r5, and find a new papercut for r7?
[22:23] <mrooney> I can try!
[22:23] <mrooney> can I change milestones in it? let's see
[22:23] <djsiegel2> I am sure you will succeed!
[22:23] <djsiegel2> mrooney: you should be able to now
[22:24] <mrooney> I can not, alas
[22:24] <mac_v> mrooney: please join http://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
[22:26] <mrooney> excellent thanks, awaiting approvla
[22:27] <beuno> mrooney, approved
[22:32] <mac_v> beuno: djsiegel2 Bug #400047 ? if the description is clear to you guys , then invalidate it , IMO it could be refined a bit
[22:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in ubiquity "[Ubiquity]Partitioner can be more properly worded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400047
[22:34] <djsiegel2> mac_v, I definitely think we could imporve "Install them side by side"
[22:34] <mac_v> so can we assign it to r7?
[22:36] <djsiegel2> mac_v: let mpt make the call please
[22:36] <djsiegel2> I will add a suggestion
[22:36] <mrooney> beuno: thanks!
[22:36] <mac_v> sure... ok
[23:17] <lamalex> djsiegel2: the fusa mockups look good
[23:17] <djsiegel2> lamalex: thanks
[23:24] <mrooney> djsiegel2: do you mind if I clean up some of the status and mark the fix committed as fix released when the bug is actually fixed in karmic?
[23:25] <djsiegel2> yeah, that would be really awesome
[23:25] <djsiegel2> give this guy some props: http://www.maxxer.it/f-blog/2009/08/f-spot-0-6-0-is-out/
[23:26] <mac_v> mrooney: i think i just did most of the changes :) did i miss any?
[23:26] <mac_v> those*
[23:26] <djsiegel2> setting them to "in progress" would also be good, if they are actively being worked on
[23:29] <mrooney> hm now that bug 291259 is fixed, do we want to re-validate the papercut task and assign it somewhere?
[23:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 291259 in gvfs "smb url don't work in the run application dialog or as bookmark" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291259
[23:30] <mrooney> mac_v: bug 390362 is still Fix Committed, that is the one I was looking at
[23:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 390362 in hundredpapercuts "Entering WEP/WPA key/passphrase requires tabbing/clicking" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390362
[23:30] <mac_v> mrooney: oh yeah.. i could test if it was fixed :)
[23:30] <mac_v> not*
[23:31] <mac_v> mrooney: for the smb bug , i think we can leave it as is... 
[23:32] <mac_v> mrooney: when i last asked djsiegel2 about confirming an invalid bug back as fixed... he didnt want it
[23:33] <djsiegel2> usually invalid means "not a paper cut," so it's not right to reverse a decision on that point simply because it's fixed
[23:33] <djsiegel2> bool isPapercut (Bug x) != isFixed (x) || other paper cut criteria 
[23:36] <mrooney> djsiegel2: well if the invalidation criteria was, this isn't small enough to be considered a fix, and it ends being small enough after all, I don't see why not
[23:37] <mrooney> I'm not saying that was necessarily the case with that bug, but that for those cases it seems logical to re-target them 
[23:40] <mac_v> mrooney: hehe...similar instance... i had validated the bug , djsiegel2 later invalidated saying it was not trivial, but was eventually trivially fixed ;p 
[23:44] <djsiegel2> mac_v mrooney lamalex: click-to-rename closing comment https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/48671/comments/85
[23:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 48671 in nautilus "Cannot rename by clicking on a file" [Wishlist,Triaged] 
[23:44] <djsiegel2> mrooney: we need another papercut on round 6, hopefully one with some good progress already
[23:45] <MDC2> djsiegel2, I think the one that won't let you move windows in the pager is quite important
[23:45] <MDC2> djsiegel2, and is has an upstream patch as well
[23:45] <djsiegel2> MDC2: sounds pretty complex to enable that
[23:45] <MDC2> nope, patch is there (i wrote it :-))
[23:45] <djsiegel2> djsiegel2: and I have to say, enabling that could make the switcher less usable as a whole
[23:46] <djsiegel2> it promotes a really poorly designed way to move windows around
[23:46] <mac_v> MDC2: bug#
[23:46] <djsiegel2> clicking on 5px rectangles
[23:46] <MDC2> djsiegel2, it does "Click to start moving .." when hovering..
[23:46] <MDC2> mac_v, 2 sec..
[23:46] <MDC2> mac_v, upstream bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505367
[23:46] <ubot4> Gnome bug 505367 in general "Compiz - Can't drag a windows to another workspace" [Normal,New] 
[23:47] <MDC2> djsiegel2, both me and my girlfriend use it a lot.. 
[23:47] <mac_v> MDC2: i dont think it was reported in papercuts
[23:48] <djsiegel2> MDC2: I don't understand
[23:48] <MDC2> even it you don't use it, it seems strange to not be able to move them..
[23:48] <djsiegel2> you click a rectangle in the switcher and drag it to another workspace in the applet?
[23:48] <MDC2> yep
[23:48] <MDC2> as the tooltip says
[23:48] <mac_v> MDC2: if you want to push it  , amaranth is the best person
[23:49] <MDC2> mac_v, who's amaranth? libwnck developer?
[23:50] <mac_v> MDC2: https://launchpad.net/~amaranth , he mostly deals with the compiz stuff
[23:51] <MDC2> the problem is not in compiz land, its libwnck that has poor support for viewport. I've been asking vuntz on how he want it implemented (so i can fix it) - but no response so far..
[23:51] <mac_v> djsiegel2: the function does not work when compiz is enabled. 
[23:52] <MDC2> guess his busy with other gnome stuff...
[23:52] <mac_v> MDC2: ah... libwnck is vuntz
[23:52] <MDC2> yep
[23:52] <MDC2> s/his/he's/
[23:53] <MDC2> I've got a bunch of patches waiting for review in libwnck *hint*
[23:54] <mac_v> MDC2: i think vuntz works on UTC time , you can catch him in #ubuntu-desktop
[23:55] <MDC2> mac_v, i'll try (I also mailed him about it and he should have seen my patches so hopefully he will take a look at them when he has more time, don't wanna bother him if he hasn't got time)
[23:56] <MDC2> isn't there any other libwnck developer that got time for reviewing patches and slapping me on the fingers when i screw up?