[01:49]  * thumper frowns
[01:49] <thumper> tests for db-devel are failing
[01:49] <thumper> but it is just two merges from trunk
[01:49] <thumper> and the tests pass on devel
[02:10]  * thumper relocates
[02:51] <meaton2veggies> hi guys, how can you control the email address that launchpad sends mail too? is it in lp conf?
[03:22] <wgrant> thumper: Is that why my latest hasn't been merged yet? It's not the one that has broken the tests, I hope...
[04:36] <mars> argh, just cc'd mwh, and remembered he's not around for a while :)
[04:40] <jtv> spm: what's an arvo?
[04:41] <spm> jtv: slang for afternoon.
[04:41] <jtv> spm: ah.  In any case, I think that script is just naturally non-noisy.
[04:41] <spm> jtv: ie "now" :-)
[04:41] <spm> right
[04:42] <Ursinha> hello people
[04:42] <spm> jtv: a non-noisy script is a good script - in my professional opinion. :-)
[04:42] <spm> Ursinha: errr.... were you including me in "people" - cause I kinda object to that classification. sysadmin donchaknow.
[04:42] <jtv> spm: absolutely, which is why I made it send even the remaining warnings to the uploader instead of the log.  But it would be nice to know that something is really happening.  :)
[04:42] <Ursinha> spm, lol
[04:43] <jtv> hi Ursinha, see you've insulted someone already.  :)
[04:43] <spm> jtv: we can always disable "-q" ?
[04:43] <Ursinha> LOL
[04:43] <Ursinha> see, I just said "hello people"
[04:43] <jtv> Ursinha: no seriously, I admire that
[04:43] <Ursinha> hahahaha
[04:43] <spm> jtv: see! you did it too! "someone". Sigh. I'm so misunderstood.
[04:43] <spm> ROFL.
[04:43] <jtv> spm: no, thats not what I meant.
[04:44] <jtv> spm: I totally understand how you feel about this.
[04:44] <jtv> spm: it's just that I don't give a smeg.
[04:44] <Ursinha> omg
[04:44] <Ursinha> lol!
[04:44]  * spm literally rolls out of the chair laughing
[04:44] <jtv> spm: but yes, sure, disable the -q
[04:44] <spm> jtv: oki
[04:44] <jtv> wow, look at that guy typing while rolling on the floor... *that* is a good sysadmin
[04:45] <jtv> (apart from the fact that he's rolling on the floor for any reason except cable management)
[04:45] <Ursinha> HAHAHAHAHAHA
[04:45]  * wgrant quickly breaks Launchpad while spm is incapacitated.
[04:45] <spm> wireless keyboards FTW! surgically attached to my arms.
[04:45] <spm> wgrant: no need. it can do it all on it's own. :-)
[04:46] <wgrant> spm: Good to know.
[04:46] <wgrant> Although it isn't breaking too much these days.
[04:46] <jtv> wgrant: please file a bug for that... means the cron job is broken
[04:46] <wgrant> jtv: Is this the one that likes 5 hour transactions?
[04:47] <jtv> wgrant: wow, that took a surprisingly serious turn...
[04:47] <wgrant> Ah.
[04:47]  * wgrant fails.
[04:48] <jtv> wgrant: 5-hour transactions happen to be a personally sensitive subject.  :)
[04:49] <jtv> spm: also, would you have a moment(*) to service my staging testing request?
[04:49] <jtv> (*) for a fairly large value of a moment
[04:50] <spm> jtv: sure. just give me 5, just mid something atm.
[04:50]  * jtv hands spm 5
[04:55] <spm> jtv: ok, we're seeing INFO stuff in that log again.
[04:55] <jtv> spm: i.e. the script starting and stopping?
[04:56] <spm> jtv: yup
[04:56] <jtv> spm: hope that can go somewhere where nagios sees it but we don't have to unless there's anything serious?
[04:57] <spm> jtv: we use scriptactivity, not nagios for that style of thing. if you need it checked ultra frequently so it's a critical system fail if it doesn't work for <10-15 minutes? we can nagios. ???
[04:58] <jtv> spm: you make it sound like overkill
[04:59] <spm> jtv: no not really. it's just degress of prioirty
[04:59] <jtv> spm: if this script fails, I'd say it's not critical unless it lasts for several hours at least
[05:00] <jtv> meanwhile, some runs may legitimately take more than 15 minutes.
[05:00] <spm> jtv: right. and that's where scriptactivity will catch it
[05:01] <jtv> perfect
[05:31] <jtv> spm: I see you head several swap alerts for appservers...  do you think that was incidental?  If not, we may have to tweak ORM cache sizes.
[05:31] <jtv> s/head/had/
[05:35] <jtv> spm: meanwhile, about those staging script runs...  :-)
[05:36] <spm> jtv: sorry - that 5 turned ino 45 and then some.
[05:37] <jtv> spm: call it a round 10×?
[05:37] <spm> jtv: I need to afk in ~ 25 for the school run; but we can progress now.
[05:37] <jtv> spm: most of this should be noninteractive from your pov
[05:37] <spm> even better!
[05:38] <jtv> spm: just run, say, 5 instances of the export script and let me know; then kick off the migration and 5 more exports after that.
[05:38] <spm> jtv: righto. this is per your email late last week?
[05:38] <jtv> spm: the rest we can figure out after, assuming staging doesn't restore in the meantime
[05:38] <jtv> spm: righto indeed
[05:38] <spm> 'k
[05:46] <spm> jtv: stage 1 done
[05:46] <jtv> spm: ack
[06:03]  * thumper is back
[06:04] <thumper> I know the answer to the failing test
[06:04] <thumper> just incase anyone cares
[06:05] <Ursinha> what was that thumper?
[06:05] <thumper> what was what?
[06:05] <thumper> the fix? or the problem?
[06:07] <Ursinha> the answer to the failing test
[06:07] <thumper> I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to fix it yet
[06:07] <thumper> but the problem relates to security proxies and the object factory
[06:20] <thumper> now I know the fix \o/
[06:23] <thumper> nope that's not going to work...
[06:24] <thumper> ah ha
[06:24] <thumper> this one will
[06:55]  * thumper heads for dinner, probably back later
[07:32] <noodles775> Morning.
[08:20] <adeuring> good morning
[08:20] <poolie1> noodles775: do you think it's too crazy to use the same field for search and file-bug?
[08:20] <poolie1> i kind of like the idea
[08:22] <noodles775> poolie1: what' the context/use-case?
[08:22] <noodles775> s/what'/what's
[08:23] <noodles775> Ah, I see...
[08:23] <noodles775> Yeah, it would certainly remove an extra click/page-load.
[08:23] <poolie1> it's possibly overloading it too much
[08:23] <poolie1> i was thinking "why not just have the file bug thing there "
[08:23] <noodles775> The "by importance' filtering would be a bit confusing.
[08:23] <poolie1> and then, really ,with the dupe-finder, the filebug thing really is just like a search field
[08:23] <noodles775> exactly.
[08:24] <noodles775> Another thought, if you *just* had a "Search or report a bug" button (somehow... needs thought),
[08:24] <noodles775> the result being a list of relevant bugs or the option to create your new one.
[08:25] <noodles775> Nah, that wouldn't work... very different terms entered into the field.
[08:29] <noodles775> BjornT would be a much better person to think about the above ^^ :)
[08:32] <BjornT> noodles775, poolie1: i think overloading it might be a bit confusing, hard to get it right so people would understand it. being able to enter the search terms without an extra page load is a good idea. we could you an overlay, or something like that, which pops up when you click on "Report a bug"
[08:33] <BjornT> (an overlay which would post to +filebug and take you there)
[08:33] <poolie1> i find about half my interactions are "find an existing bug" and half are "if this isn't a dupe, file it"
[08:33] <poolie1> if it's an existing bug i usually find it from browser history or emal
[08:33] <poolie1> email*
[08:49] <gmb> Morning folks.
[08:51] <noodles775> hey gmb :)
[08:55] <gmb> noodles775: Morning! Anything (funny|terrifying|annoying) happen whilst I was away?
[08:57] <noodles775> gmb: Lots of small things (some great contributions), and there was just some discussion about bugs UI earlier (just 0.5hr ago) you might want to check the log) :)
[08:58] <noodles775> But nothing terrifying or annoying :)
[08:58] <gmb> noodles775: Will do. Once I've got through this pile of emails.
[08:58] <noodles775> gmb: yeah, I'm just finishing up going through the backlog... :)
[08:59] <gmb> Unfortunately I set up an over-simplistic filter and have not got loads of stuff I normally filter straight to the bin in my "To read" folder
[08:59] <gmb> s/not/now
[09:01] <noodles775> You can still update and apply your filters to your inbox though can't you? (both gmail and thunderbird to this iirc)
[09:02] <gmb> noodles775: Yes. I'm now trying to figure out what I should be filtering out, though :)
[09:02] <gmb> noodles775: Also, gmail doesn't offer any X-header filtering, which is a real PITA.
[09:02] <noodles775> Yeah.
[09:06] <mrevell> Morning
[09:15] <jtv> hi mrevell!
[09:15] <mrevell> hey jtq
[09:16] <mrevell> or jtv
[09:16] <mrevell> I like that guy too
[09:16] <jtv> mrevell: I just had it pointed out to me that my blog post about exporting to branches wasn't categorized.
[09:16] <mrevell> jtv: That's easily fixed. I can go in and do that.
[09:16] <jtv> mrevell: cool, thanks.
[09:17] <mrevell> jtv: fixed :)
[09:17] <jtv> mrevell: thanks
[09:18] <BjornT> anyone knows why edge hasn't been updated during the weekend?
[09:18] <henninge> I am wondering why I get (not for the fist time) Ubuntu support questions via the "Contact any user" feature.
[09:20] <wgrant> gmb: Are you the master of bug migrations?
[09:21] <gmb> wgrant: Yes, more-or-less.
[09:21] <wgrant> gmb: Is there anything existing to import a project's bugs from Google Code?
[09:22] <gmb> wgrant: We've certainly never done a migration from Google Code before, so no, not as far as I know.
[09:22] <wgrant> gmb: Really? Huh.
[09:23] <gmb> Unless it was before my time (jamesh used to handle imports)
[10:59] <deryck> Morning, all.
[11:04] <danilos> jtv: call
[11:05] <jtv> danilos: lost you
[11:06] <danilos> jtv: no, you lost yourself :)
[11:13] <danilos> jtv: are you around?
[13:25] <barry> good morning fellow 'padders!
[14:18] <mrevell> jtv: are you still around, sir?
[14:31] <barry> bac, sinzui, salgado are we still doing standups? :)
[14:31] <sinzui> barry: We now have to stand on our heads balancing a bowl of custard. otherwise, nothing has changed.
[14:32]  * barry makes some custard
[14:32] <barry> sinzui: sorry, all my bowls are still packed away.  can i use a paper cup?
[14:33]  * gmb misread the word bowls there, thought there was an 'e' in it.
[14:34] <barry> ew
[15:06] <barry> losas: i'm am at your disposal for bug 325962
[15:06] <mup> Bug #325962: lp-mailman startup is blocking on a pid file in the wrong directory <mailing-lists> <Launchpad Registry:Triaged by barry> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/325962>
[15:49] <mrevell> cprov: Also, wrt signing PPA keys -- I think we should add a note to the existing pop-up help. Happy with that?
[15:49] <cprov> mrevell: yes, absolutely
[15:49] <beuno> noodles775, mars, flacoste, rockstar, intellectronica, jtv, ajax call in 10?
[15:49] <cprov> mrevell: signing the PPA signing-key doesn't add any trust and in some case cause confusion.
[15:49] <mrevell> cprov: I'll prepare something
[15:49] <noodles775> beuno: yep.
[15:50] <intellectronica> beuno: yes. thanks for the reminder
[16:11] <flacoste> beuno: i'm sprinting with IS/ISD this week
[16:35] <danilos> salgado: ping
[16:35] <salgado> danilos, pong
[16:36] <danilos> salgado: I am looking at our _getPersonAndEmail code in lib/lp/translations/utilities/translation_import.py, and I am sure you can help me with something
[16:36] <danilos> salgado: that method calls person_set.getByEmail, and if it doesn't exist calls person_set.createPersonAndEmail
[16:37] <danilos> salgado: if there's already an emailaddress registered but no person record, it seems to fail spectacularly (or not so spectacularly) with a traceback like http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30100943/nEHny0WhPU3DP4opnCiFlw7QaBo.txt
[16:38] <danilos> salgado: so, I am looking for a suggestion on how to proceed here? what's the correct thing to do?
[16:39] <danilos> salgado: and this should give you a clue why I am talking to you: https://pastebin.canonical.com/20963/ :)
[16:42] <salgado> danilos, to be frank, I'm not sure what to do in cases like this, as simply creating a new Person entry and associating it with the existing account/email will cause the newly created person to show up as a LP user event though the user never registered on LP
[16:43] <salgado> danilos, that email is associated to an account and not to a person because it's an SSO account
[16:44] <danilos> salgado: right, I understand what's going on, but I am not so sure what's the right way forward
[16:44] <salgado> bug 408528 was when I first heard about this problem. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/408528/comments/2 has my reasoning
[16:44] <danilos> salgado: we've got a lot of person references that already work like this (i.e. translationmessage.submitter is initialized to this person)
[16:44] <mup> Bug #408528: lucene2 synced from Debian, built fine but failed to upload <Launchpad Foundations:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/408528>
[16:44] <mup> Bug #408528: lucene2 synced from Debian, built fine but failed to upload <Launchpad Foundations:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/408528>
[16:45] <salgado> danilos, right, but since the person has no account associated, they don't show up as LP users -- they show up as placeholder profiles
[16:45] <danilos> salgado: right, so I do want a person record, but not account record, is that right?
[16:46] <danilos> salgado: and if it is, what APIs should we use to create it?
[16:46] <salgado> yes, but that's a constraint we're unnecessarily imposing on ourselves
[16:47] <salgado> there's no API for that because you need an email address to create a Person entry
[16:48] <danilos> salgado: right, so would the right thing to do be to change IPersonSet.getByEmail to return a person record even if no account exists, or to change createPersonAndEmail to reuse existing email address, or something entirely different?
[16:49] <salgado> the correct thing to do here is to create the Person entry we need and associated it with the email/account
[16:49] <salgado> but we need to somehow flag that new entry as a placeholder profile, so that they don't show up as LP users in the web UI
[16:49] <danilos> salgado: ah, right, so that's the missing bit right now
[16:50] <danilos> salgado: is that something we can use creation_rationale for?
[16:50] <salgado> and we need to fix callsites that do "if IPS.getByEmail(email) is None: IPS.createPersonAndEmail(...)"
[16:51] <danilos> salgado: right
[16:51] <danilos> salgado: so, it seems we can't use creation_rationale for that, and we'd need a new db field
[16:52] <salgado> danilos, a new db field would be best, but it might be possible to abuse creation_rationale for the time being
[16:53] <salgado> it'd involve some considerable amount of work, though
[16:54] <danilos> salgado: only if we go back to using binary masks it seems to be, or we'd be losing information; i.e. in this case, I'd like creation_rationale to be POFILEIMPORT | NOTYETUSINGLAUNCHPAD, where NOTYETUSINGLAUNCHPAD > whatever we are using right now (0x100 seems it would do, but something larger would be even better)
[16:54] <beuno> salgado, hi. How easy would it be to show number of product downloads on the homepage?
[16:54] <danilos> salgado: right, so any suggestions on how I can fix this bug in a simpler way?
[16:56] <salgado> danilos, you do need a Person entry, right?
[16:56] <salgado> beuno, the product's +index page or LP's home page?
[16:56] <danilos> salgado: right
[16:57] <beuno> salgado, both?   :)
[16:58] <salgado> danilos, use a new creation rationale (POFILEIMPORT_NOTYETUSINGLAUNCHPAD) and let the newly created entry show up as a LP user
[16:59] <salgado> when we fix the real problem we can identify the entries that were created this way and fix them
[16:59] <danilos> salgado: sure, sounds good... should I strive to make it extractable using binary logical operations, or just make it a next entry in the sequence?
[17:10] <salgado> danilos, what was the last msg you got from me?
[17:19] <salgado> beuno, it would be easy to write and cheap to compute for product/+index, but it seems to be unacceptably slow for the home page
[17:21] <salgado> even the latter might be cheap on production, but would have to check with stub first
[17:22] <beuno> salgado, cool, I'll file bugs. Thanks
[17:24] <kfogel> jml: ping (quick q, if you're online)
[17:28] <kfogel> BjornT: do you know the merging-relationship between devel/db-devel/stable/db-stable ?  I'm writing a wiki page explaining all, but I'm not sure what gets auto-merged where when.
[17:29] <kfogel> hmm, okay, anyone ^^   :-)
[17:29]  * kfogel casts about for Someone Who Knows
[17:31] <bigjools-afk> kfogel: IIRC abentley and/or gary knocked up a web page somewhere about that
[17:31] <kfogel> bigjools-afk: on the dev wiki?
[17:31] <bigjools-afk> I don't remember, sorry :(
[17:31] <bigjools-afk> I just remember that It Was Done
[17:32] <gary_poster> kfogel: yeah, I wrote one, abentley supplied a nice diagram.  on internal wiki.  looking
[17:32] <kfogel> bigjools: thanks.  I searched in the dev wiki and didn't find it.
[17:32] <kfogel> gary_poster: AH!  I searched there too, but no luck.  (search for "devel", "db-devel", "stable", "db-stable" simultaneously gets no hits, but then search is always broken there.)
[17:35] <gary_poster> kfogel: more diagrams than those at which you might be able to shake a stick: https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/Experiments/DBDevel
[17:36] <kfogel> gary_poster: OMG,that's perfect.  Thank you.  I will translate to dev wiki.
[17:36] <gary_poster> cool
[18:11]  * gmb EoDs.
[18:26] <intellectronica> rockstar: when running the full test suite on EC2, i got some errors that look code related. the branch doesn't really touch anything related to them. see https://pastebin.canonical.com/20973/ any ideas?
[18:27] <intellectronica> jml: maybe you know? ^^^^^
[18:28] <intellectronica> this is a branch of db-devel, b.t.w
[18:29] <jml> intellectronica, no idea, I'm afraid.
[18:31] <rockstar> intellectronica, that looks like a test abentley added.  Is it failing in trunk?
[18:32] <intellectronica> rockstar: it is failing in db-devel
[18:32] <rockstar> intellectronica, disable it and file a bug.  I'll take a look at it.
[18:33] <intellectronica> rockstar: k
[18:34] <rockstar> intellectronica, thanks
[18:34]  * rockstar goes back to ignoring IRC
[18:36] <maxb> How long should I wait after submitting a contributor agreement before chasing if I haven't heard an acknowledgement?
[18:38] <kfogel> maxb: it shouldn't take long.  To whom did you send it?
[18:38] <maxb> contributor-agreement@ and kiko@
[18:38] <kfogel> maxb: can you resend to me and contributor-agreement@ ?  I'll get it in.
[18:38] <kfogel> maxb: I think kiko's just having a busy week.
[18:38] <kfogel> Not that I'm not having a busy week, but (I suspect) not like kiko's.
[18:38] <kfogel> :-)
[18:40] <maxb> I only sent it late last wednesday - I can wait a bit longer if it's likely to be in the pipeline
[18:40] <maxb> I still need to get around to sorting myself a non-karmic chroot to test my changes in
[18:42] <kfogel> maxb: well, actually, let me check internally, one sec
[18:42] <kfogel> maxb: is your middle name Oliver?
[18:42] <maxb> yes
[18:42] <kfogel> maxb: then we have it on file :-)
[18:43] <maxb> no one told me :-)
[18:43] <kfogel> yeah, I'm going to follow up about that internally
[18:43] <kfogel> maxb: ^^
[18:43] <maxb> But that's fine, now I have no excuse not to get on submitting some actual branches :-)
[18:48] <intellectronica> andrea-bs: hi, tests run cleanly and i'm now landing the branch on your behalf. thanks again for working on this (and for doing such excellent work with so little guidance)
[18:49] <andrea-bs> intellectronica, thank you very much for your help!
[18:57] <beuno> bigjools, is your mockup based on an actual branch, or gimped??
[19:06] <cprov> beuno: 50/50, AFAIK
[19:07] <beuno> cprov, ok, because I think we're entering a phase where visual changes are needed mora than layout changes
[19:07] <cprov> beuno: btw, can you take a look at https://dev.launchpad.net/SoyuzBuildIndexPage as well?
[19:08]  * beuno looks
[19:08] <cprov> beuno: yes, I realized this on my changes as well, at this point it's not any harder to tweak the templates directly and the result is way more useful than mockups
[19:09] <beuno> cprov, that mockup I *really* like
[19:09] <cprov> beuno: the build-details table was required by buildd-admins, making it super-ugly is my fault.
[19:10] <cprov> beuno: note that the portlets on the 2nd line of the grid may grow vertically according to the number of resulting binaries.
[19:12] <cprov> beuno: so, having the details table doesn't affect it badly, since the 1st line of the grid will have an almost fixed height.
[19:12] <beuno> cprov, yeah, agreed
[19:13] <cprov> beuno: it just need to be easier to the eyes, the current <table class="listing"><tr class="shaded/white"> didn't work, right ?
[19:14] <cprov> beuno: see an example of a huge list of binaries -> https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/2.6.28-11.36/+build/913196
[19:15] <beuno> cprov, yes, this table is much nicer
[19:16] <cprov> beuno: cool, the idea is to split context and status of a build
[19:17] <beuno> cprov, sounds like a great plan
[19:17] <beuno> this page still looks too messy: http://people.canonical.com/~ed/dsp_mockup2.png
[19:17] <cprov> beuno: as in general TMI or the layout itself ?
[19:18] <beuno> cprov, layout
[19:18] <beuno> 100% layout
[19:19] <cprov> beuno: I think a bugtask-like table for the published version info would be nicer because of its fixed size and colored lines.
[19:19] <beuno> cprov, agreed
[19:19] <beuno> which is kind of why I want to get my hands on the branch
[19:19] <cprov> beuno: but I also see that it's not very different than what we have and people dislike :(
[19:20] <beuno> cprov, I don't really understand all the issues behind this
[19:21] <beuno> maybe we should schedule a call and some time to pair on this?
[19:21] <cprov> beuno: sure, now ?
[19:22] <beuno> cprov, can't, need to un-swamp myself. How's Wed?    :)
[19:22] <cprov> beuno: works fine.
[19:23] <beuno> cprov, 15UTC?
[19:23] <cprov> beuno: burning my lunch-time ? :)
[19:23] <cprov> beuno: 1h later or earlier ?
[19:24] <beuno> cprov, ok, earlier
[19:24] <beuno> 14UTC
[19:24] <beuno> 10am my time
[19:24] <cprov> beuno: deal.
[19:24]  * beuno calenders it
[19:37] <kfogel> andrea-bs: https://dev.launchpad.net/Trunk  is still in progress, but please see if it answers your questions.
[19:38]  * andrea-bs looks
[19:50] <andrea-bs> kfogel, The images really help. I think that the text is a bit hard to understand, especially because: 1. when I read "stable" I think to launchpad.net, not edge.launchpad.net; and 2. what exactly is testfix?
[19:50] <andrea-bs> kfogel, but yes, it answers my questions
[19:51] <kfogel> andrea-bs: yeah, a lot of work to do there.  The internal wiki page I'm translating from has a wealth of information, but was slightly out-of-date and assumes certain prior knowledge.
[19:53] <bigjools> beuno, it started off as a template but most of it's gimped now.  I suck at gimp. can't you tell? :)
[19:53] <Lantash1> @danilos: It's me, the guy attempting to fix #392154. Thanks alot for introducing me to the test environment with your verbose explanation. However, I couldn't complete the testcase because pofile.contributors seems to be empty for some reason: http://pastie.org/578867
[19:53] <mup> Bug #392154: translator-credits show two contributor lists <Launchpad Translations:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/392154>
[19:59] <danilos> Lantash1: hi
[19:59] <barry> kfogel: ping
[19:59] <kfogel> barry: pong-a-long-long
[19:59] <barry> kfogel: hi!  i'm looking at dev.lp.net/Trunk
[19:59] <danilos> Lantash1: it's possible we need to do a pofile.sync() before the contributor shows up (a list of contributors is updated with a database trigger, i.e. behind the scenes)
[19:59] <barry> i'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say by "corresponds to"
[19:59] <Lantash1> danilos: Thanks. I'll give it a try.
[20:00] <danilos> Lantash1: cool, let me know how it goes
[20:01] <Lantash1> danilos: Don't seem to be allowed to do that: "ForbiddenAttribute: ('sync', <POFile...>)"
[20:02] <barry> kfogel: i mean, i think i know what the intent is :) but the wording is awkward
[20:02] <kfogel> barry: I'm planning to work on the page more today, but just go ahead and fix/edit/tweak/rewrite/whatever anything there!  It's a VERY rough draft; based on the internal wiki page gary_poster pointed me to (see the top, there's a link).
[20:03] <barry> kfogel: cool, i didn't want to step on any toes!  let me see if i can tweak it
[20:04] <kfogel> barry: no, the toes are already stepped on; all you can do is set & mend them now.
[20:04] <kfogel> (not to imply that you did any stepping, barry -- I mean these toes come pre-stepped!)
[20:05] <barry> kfogel: i'm better at digging out ingrown toenails :)
[20:05] <barry> kfogel: thanks!
[20:05] <kfogel> barry: Ok, I'm not sure where this metaphor is going, but I think this is my stop.  Got to get off.  Bye!  Have fun stormin' the castle!
[20:08] <barry> kfogel: tweaked.  please let me know if i made it worse
[20:09] <kfogel> barry: oh, that is *much* better, thank you.
[20:09] <kfogel> andrea-bs: see above
[20:09] <kfogel> barry: any further improvements or clarifications you think that page could use, please just make 'em.
[20:09] <kfogel> barry: if I'm editing, you'll get a warning, but I'm not right now
[20:10] <kfogel> (and won't be for a few hours)
[20:11] <andrea-bs> barry, kfogel, it's much better now (but of course the whole page can be improved)
[20:11] <barry> kfogel: cool.  i think i'll leave it for now.  i'm mostly in email catchup mode so trying to just hit the low hanging fruit as i go.
[20:11] <barry> andrea-bs, kfogel i was thinking that the picture might want to come earlier, but i won't touch that for now
[20:12] <barry> kfogel: and i might be pinging you again in a bit when i catch up on the "contributions" thread
[20:12] <kfogel> andrea-bs: I agree with barry about the pictures coming earlier -- if you want to Just Do It, go for it.
[20:12] <andrea-bs> barry, Absolutely yes! To understand the text I had to look at the picture :)
[20:13] <barry> andrea-bs: exactly!  i've known this stuff for months now, but the picture always reminds me so much quicker than the words :)
[20:14] <andrea-bs> kfogel, I'm a bit tired now (it's late here), so I think I will move it tomorrow if nobody else does it. Sorry!
[20:16] <danilos> Lantash1: sorry for the delay, busy with some stuff
[20:17] <danilos> Lantash1: you can avoid that in tests by using removeSecurityProxy(pofile).sync() (from zope.security.proxy import removeSecurityProxy)
[20:22] <Lantash1> danilos: I'm sorry to disappoint you, but pofile.contributors is empty even if a sync is performed on the pofile just before accessing it.
[20:23] <kfogel> andrea-bs: I'll do it, np.
[20:23] <danilos> Lantash1: ok, perhaps a full transaction.commit() is necessary, let me try it out
[20:26] <salgado> sinzui, ping.  I'm having trouble creating a navigationmenu to use in the +index page of project groups
[20:27] <sinzui> salgado: for Change details and Administer?
[20:27] <salgado> sinzui, yes, these and 'Subscribe to bugmail' (which would require work to move to another facet)
[20:28] <danilos> Lantash1: ah right, you need a sequence=1 when creating potmsgset
[20:28] <sinzui> salgado: I had a similar thought
[20:28] <sinzui> salgado: milestones and series have the link in their index page
[20:29] <sinzui> salgado: We should be sure what ever we do, pillar, series, and milestone do it the same way
[20:29] <danilos> Lantash1: so, this worked for me
[20:29] <salgado> sinzui, when I created the new menu (https://pastebin.canonical.com/20984/), the template OOPSes when attempting to access context/menu:overview
[20:30] <danilos> Lantash1: this is because with our recent message sharing work (we still tend to forget some bits due to being used to different behaviour), potmsgset doesn't have to be attached to a template even if it's added to it
[20:30] <salgado> sinzui, https://pastebin.canonical.com/20985/ is the OOPS
[20:30] <danilos> Lantash1: so, adding a sequence parameter to makePOTMsgSet call attaches it explicitely
[20:30] <sinzui> salgado: I have seen that when the code the make the link is bad
[20:31] <danilos> Lantash1: to be honest, it's actually a crappy factory method, but just because nobody had time to make it better yet (i.e. it should automatically calculate a suitable sequence number and use that)
[20:32] <Lantash1> danilos: Adding the sequence argument solved the problem. Thanks for your help! I saw that other makePOTMsgSet factory calls use the sequence argument but didn't know what it is for, so I removed it.
[20:32] <sinzui> salgado: you create a nav menu for a view, not the context
[20:33] <danilos> Lantash1: right, it's useful to have the possibility to create it unattached (especially for testing), but in many tests you do want it linked to a potemplate
[20:33] <Lantash1> danilos: I'll try to write as many useful and reasonable assertions as possible in order to cover the bug and get back to you.
[20:34] <sinzui> salgado: try
[20:34] <sinzui> add implements(IProjectActionMenu)  to ProjectView
[20:34] <sinzui> and call <tal:menu replace="structure view/@@+global-actions" />
[20:34] <salgado> the first line I had already
[20:34] <salgado> just tried using view/@@+global-actions instead of context/...
[20:34] <salgado> didn't work
[20:35] <salgado> erm
[20:35]  * salgado uncomments the implements() line
[20:35] <danilos> Lantash1: ok, cool... it's already quite late here, so I'll be out soon, but you can freely link the branch to a bug and comment on the bug, or you can even ask for a review using merge proposal if you have what you believe is code we can discuss; don't feel blocked even if it's far from complete, it's best to discuss it early on, and we can help whenever needed :)
[20:35] <danilos> Lantash1: btw, thanks for taking interest in the bug, it's very appreciated :)
[20:35] <salgado> sinzui, same error, with implements() uncommented and using view instead of context
[20:36] <sinzui> salgado:  your template is dying on the overview menu, not your @@+global-actions
[20:37] <danilos> Lantash1: note that the important bit is that you now "import" (i.e. use makeTranslationMessage(is_imported=True) a translation generated with this, because that's the only way to get a translation for credits message in
[20:37] <salgado> sinzui, right, but that doesn't happen if I comment out the new menu
[20:38] <sinzui> salgado:  I saw a lot of ambiguous failure in meuns because of tales. There is a problem in the one of the menus such as making a link
[20:40] <sinzui> salgado: am I right in seeing that you removed edit and administer from one menu, but did not remove them from the list of link
[20:41] <salgado> oh, crap
[20:41] <salgado> that's it
[20:41] <salgado> must be it
[20:41] <sinzui> salgado: if you want two menus to share a link, use a mixin
[20:41] <salgado> I don't
[20:41] <salgado> just forgot to remove
[20:41] <sinzui> salgado: I am assuming you are showing me the whole diff, so the remove must still happen
[20:42] <salgado> yes, that's what I forgot and is probably what's breaking the page
[20:45] <salgado> sinzui, now it works, but it crashes when context/@@+global-actions is not found.  it might be that I'm missing a merge from mainline, though
[20:45] <salgado> sinzui, thanks!
[20:45] <sinzui> salgado: your code does not bind the menu to a context
[20:46] <salgado> I just followed the instructions on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/UI/Conversion
[20:46] <sinzui> salgado: you created a marker interface that we use to bind the menu to a view
[20:47] <sinzui> salgado: to create one for a context object:
[20:47] <sinzui> class MyMenu
[20:47] <sinzui>     usedfor = IObjectType.
[20:47] <sinzui> same as the navigation menus on person and product
[20:47] <salgado> right, but if it's only used in one page, why would I bind it to the context instead of the view?
[20:49] <sinzui> salgado: In the case you need to use an action menu and a related pages menu. I cannot think of a real need for that case. the action menu should be only be used on an index page, and I cannot image a related pages section on an index page too
[20:50] <sinzui> salgado: We get the context option to create a menu because Navigation menus were designed 18 months to support two levels per the 2.0 UI
[20:52] <salgado> right
[21:13] <Lantash1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYM-_qfytfA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fde-bug.de%2Fmedien%2Farchives%2Fwahlspot-dilemma.html&feature=player_embedded
[21:14] <Lantash1> sry everyone
[21:14] <Lantash1> didn't meant to post this link here
[21:16] <rockstar> thumper, when you're awake, children have been to school, etc, ping.
[21:31] <dobey> i seem to be getting a lot of timeouts lately
[21:31] <dobey> OOPS-1318EC206 is one of them
[21:34] <beuno> sinzui, yo
[21:34] <sinzui> hi beunio
[21:34] <sinzui> beuno
[21:35]  * rockstar goes on a short walk
[21:36] <beuno> sinzui, would you like to have a catch-up call?
[21:37] <sinzui> beuno: in 15 minutes
[21:37] <beuno> sinzui, sure. Call me when ready
[21:57] <sinzui> beuno: I'm calling
[21:57] <beuno> sinzui, headphones on, waiting eagerly
[22:14] <beuno> EdwinGrubbs, hi
[22:14] <EdwinGrubbs> beuno: what's up?
[22:16] <thumper> rockstar: ping
[22:16] <thumper> rockstar: I'm home along :)
[22:16] <thumper> s/along/alone/
[22:16]  * thumper needs more coffee
[22:17] <rockstar> thumper, get more coffee, then we can skype.
[22:17]  * rockstar secretly fears an un-caffeinated thumper
[22:17] <thumper> rockstar: I have coffee, we can skype now
[22:18] <beuno> EdwinGrubbs, I've just purchased your time to work a bit on the timeline after you land the team page
[22:18] <beuno> are you up for it?
[22:18] <beuno> I can still get a refund
[22:23] <EdwinGrubbs> beuno: working on the timeline would be fine.
[22:23] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: ping
[22:23] <sinzui> Hi EdwinGrubbs
[22:26] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: I read your email. Can I use view/+global-actions instead of context/+global-actions or some other menu tied to views, since the +related-pages are supposed to be inline, but I need certain actions only on the edit pages.
[22:26] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: yes. I think we should avoid menus on the context object for now
[22:30] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: won't the menu being registered on the view for +related-pages interfere with registering one for the view on +global-actions? How can I place one menu inline and one menu in the sidebar that both use the view as the context object.
[22:32] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: I am confused. If a page needs two menus then you must define a a nav menu on the context object and a nav menu for the view. I have not seen a reason for any page to need two menus.
[22:32] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: what is your need for two menus on the team page>
[22:33] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: ok, so I will have a context/+global-actions inline and a view/+global-actions in the sidebar?
[22:33] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: You are killiing me
[22:34] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: and menus are killing me.
[22:34] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: The action menu may only go in the sidebar...thus can only be used on pages that have a side bar. we think index pages of object are the only pages that get a sidebar
[22:34] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: what page are you designing?
[22:36] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: sorry, I flipped the pages in my head. My question should have been, do I use view/+global-actions in the sidebar and context/+related-pages inline, which is reversed from your original example?
[22:37] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: yes. That is how they are intended
[22:37] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: are you designing the team page?
[22:37] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: the $team/+edit page.
[22:38] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: Edit pages (form pages) do not have a sidebar, they cannot have an action  menu. You may choose to have a related pages portlet after the form like the product-edit.py page
[22:39] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: If you are concerned about common links (Administer, Change details), then I advise you place them in a mixin class. Use the mixin in every NavigationMenu that need one of those links
[22:39]  * sinzui looks for example classes
[22:41] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: ok, that is fine. I had complained in another thread about the "Change branding", "Change owner", etc. links being at the bottom of the "Change details" page, where they are easy to miss. That's why I was trying to stick everything in the sidebar, but I'll stop doing that now.
[22:42] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: take a look at lp/registry/browser/product:
[22:42] <sinzui>     ProductEditLinksMixin:
[22:42] <sinzui>     ProductEditNavigationMenu(NavigationMenu, ProductEditLinksMixin)
[22:42] <sinzui>    ProductOverviewMenu(ApplicationMenu, ProductEditLinksMixin):
[22:42] <sinzui> and the templates/
[22:42] <sinzui>     product-edit.pt
[22:42] <sinzui>     product-admin.pt
[22:42] <sinzui>     
[22:42] <sinzui>     
[22:42] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: That is a big NO
[22:42] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: the sidebar is a distraction from the single task the user has to perform
[22:43] <sinzui> The conversion page does say that modifcation pages are main_only
[22:43] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: remember, We expect most users to be changing content inline, so we want the links inline
[22:45] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: Then, I think it is weird not to have easier access to "Change branding", etc. on some other page. If I can put an edit link right next to the big team logo, that would solve that problem, but it might look ugly.
[22:47] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: I do not think you are thinking like a user. How does the user no branding is not on the page until he has scrolled to the bottom? Why should we assume that when the user first sees the page, that something is wrong and he wants to leave?
[22:47] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: The branding issue is special
[22:47] <beuno> you know nwhat would be super mega awesome for branding?
[22:47] <beuno> an edit link right under the picture
[22:48] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: Lifeless proposed a solution, but the new design makes it hard. We will solve the problem for all IHasLog in in glorious landing
[22:51] <EdwinGrubbs> sinzui: The user's thought pattern would be, "I used the change-branding page the other day, and now I want to go back to it. There is no link on the overview page, so I'll click on 'Change details'. Oh look, there are no links in here, maybe they put the branding form fields in the change-details form. Let me look carefully through all the form fields on this page. When I see the form's submit button, I assume that there is no
[22:52] <EdwinGrubbs> because everything below the form must be part of the footer.
[22:53] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: I think you are wrong. After clicking Change details, The user looks for the branding form, see it is not there, a but a link is present.
[22:54] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: And the correct fix is not to assume something is wrong, but to make something right. We need to solve two things, which an action menu does not...
[22:55] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: beuno: The user needs to see the default art and know he can click near it to set the value. Branding makes no sense in regard to a person or team. No sane user would see Change branding and click on it to set their picture.
[22:55] <beuno> sinzui, agreed
[22:55] <beuno> "branding" is the wrong term
[22:56] <beuno> even for project IMHO
[22:56] <sinzui> EdwinGrubbs: beuno: lifeless suggested we make the default image a link to set branding. Now it is a link to the pillar/person
[22:56] <beuno> there's 2 easy ways out of this
[22:56] <beuno> sinzui, yes, and we could compliment that with a different image saying "upload picture"
[22:57] <beuno> that just the ownser sees
[22:57] <beuno> changing your picture *again* is a less common operation
[22:57] <sinzui> beuno: I am updating the bug now. You win a gold ☆
[22:57] <beuno> so you could show the edit link on hover
[22:57] <beuno> wooooo
[22:58]  * beuno copies and pastes that star to /home/beuno/chest
[22:58] <sinzui> beuno: I am noting hover too
[22:58] <beuno> super\
[22:58] <sinzui> beuno: I will get this fixed by 3.0
[22:59] <beuno> sinzui, it will be an epic release
[23:19] <gary_poster> jml: ping?