[00:00] <djsiegel2> ok, gtg guys
[00:00] <djsiegel2> great work today! love when we all get going on the papercuts together
[00:00] <MDC2> hehe, bye bye!
[00:10] <mac_v> MDC2: could you look into this> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332078
[00:10] <ubot4> Gnome bug 332078 in File Search Interface "Search button should be a toggle button" [Minor,New] 
[00:11] <MDC2> mac_v, isn't someone else working on that one?
[00:12] <MDC2> last patch from 3 days ago...
[00:12] <mac_v> MDC2: he seems to have some trouble , https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/57210/comments/8 , maybe you can speed things up :)
[00:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 57210 in hundredpapercuts "Search button does not toggle search field" [Undecided,In progress] 
[00:13] <MDC2> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332078#c15
[00:13] <ubot4> Gnome bug 332078 in File Search Interface "Search button should be a toggle button" [Minor,New] 
[00:13] <MDC2> mac_v, improved patch from Nikos
[00:13] <MDC2> from 8:e aug
[00:13] <MDC2> 8th aug
[00:13] <mac_v> MDC2: oh ok... didnt notice that
[00:50] <mrooney> It would be easier to triage bugs if we could easily find all paper cut bugs which have a task marked as fix committed or released
[01:27] <beuno> mrooney, you can
[01:28] <mrooney> beuno: oh, how so?
[01:28] <beuno> mrooney, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?advanced=1
[01:28] <mrooney> I mean paper cut bugs which have ANOTHER task fixed, so I can easily see what paper cuts might be fixed but aren't marked as such
[01:29] <beuno> ah
[01:29] <beuno> I see
[01:29] <beuno> you could do that with the API if you're into python and learning new things  :)
[01:30] <beuno> iterate over all papercut bugs, and query the other bugtasks
[01:30] <beuno> https://help.launchpad.net/API/
[01:30]  * beuno -> dinner
[06:28] <ara> morning!
[08:37] <mac_v> ara: hi... you are part of the design team right?
[08:38] <ara> mac_v, no, I am not :(
[08:38] <mac_v> ara: oh...ok, i thought you worked for canonical
[08:38] <ara> mac_v, I do, but I am not part of the design team :-9
[08:38] <ara> :-)
[08:39] <ara> mac_v, what's the question, anyways?
[08:39] <mac_v> ara: ah... well... MDC2 has been itching to fix the missing icons from the menus... when you find a menu not having an icon kindly report a bug and inform MDC2 :)
[08:40] <ara> mac_v, ok, will do :)
[08:40] <mac_v> :)
[09:53] <MDC2> mac_v, should we also fix all the applications that still has icons on buttons?
[09:53] <mac_v> MDC2: where? i dont recall any buttons having icons
[09:54] <MDC2> mac_v, one example is update manager
[09:55] <MDC2> mac_v, computer janitor
[09:56] <MDC2> mac_v, I think applications that has set images by "force" still have their icons
[09:56] <mac_v> MDC2: nice catch... they should be removed , open lp bug reports about that and also remind mpt
[09:57] <mac_v> MDC2: BTW , update manager is being revamped , so mpt *needs* to be reminded about the buttons
[09:58] <MDC2> mac_v, by force i mean not using standard stock icons but in stead add an image to the hbox inside the button
[09:58] <MDC2> mac_v, so i think the problem exists on a lot of places..
[09:59] <mac_v> MDC2: each app will need a separate patch... to fix the OS fully will take time
[10:00] <MDC2> mac_v, yep. I'm not sure how to fix those issues..
[10:00] <mac_v> MDC2: the major problem as i said before is, alpha users have just reverted the gconf setting...! so devs are aware of the problem nor are they bothered as of now
[10:01] <MDC2> mac_v, also ubuntu one (click connect)
[10:01] <MDC2> mac_v, mhm.. but we can be one step ahead :-)
[10:01] <mac_v> MDC2: thats where you come ;)
[10:02] <MDC2> mac_v, nevermind ubuntu one - it was firefox restore prev session
[10:02] <MDC2> didn't look at the text, just saw the icons
[10:02] <MDC2> mac_v, ;-)
[10:04] <MDC2> mac_v, main menu editor is a good example (4 icons)
[10:05] <MDC2> mac_v, screensaver prefs, startup app prefs...
[10:06] <MDC2> mac_v, what's said about icons in tabs?
[10:07] <mac_v> MDC2: tag all LP bug reports "menu-icons" , so that these are easier to find
[10:07] <MDC2> mac_v, it's not menu icons, it's button icons ;_)
[10:08] <mac_v> MDC2: i know , but just tag "menu-icons" so that they are all together
[10:09] <MDC2> ok, but no time today, and now breakfast. but it seems like a huge job.......
[10:09] <mac_v> MDC2: thats because the design team is already aware of that tag , and can later name if they want
[10:09] <mac_v> ok sure... bye
[14:58] <mac_v> djsiegel1: i didnt realize that :) i thought Humanity was already decided as the default
[14:58] <djsiegel1> mac_v nope
[14:59] <djsiegel1> DanRabbit1: see the sound-and-video icon (used in main menu) -- can you add some color?
[14:59] <djsiegel1> it's two dark overlapping objects
[14:59] <djsiegel1> it's so black
[14:59] <mac_v> djsiegel1: a simple one > Bug #409338 do you wanna fix this?
[14:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 409338 in hundredpapercuts "Change the name of "Hardware drivers"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409338
[15:02] <djsiegel1> mac_v confirm it
[15:02] <djsiegel1> it's not a great one, but it is an easy fix
[15:02] <djsiegel1> users don't encounter it frequently
[15:02] <djsiegel1> and it auto-opens on install
[15:03] <mac_v> djsiegel1: yeah not a great one > but the menu is always visible thats the only problem , ideally displaying the menu item *only* when drivers are used would be better
[15:04] <djsiegel1> mac_v: it's not a good idea to add/remove items from a menu conditionally, without explicit user action
[15:04] <djsiegel1> documentation would have to say "open System > Hardware Drivers. If you can't find it, you don't have drivers"
[15:05] <mac_v> ah...
[15:06] <mac_v> djsiegel1: are we short of papercuts? do you want new ones?
[15:06] <djsiegel1> yes, we always want new ones
[15:06] <djsiegel1> I think we have 97 or 98
[15:06] <djsiegel1> and 6 paperkuts
[15:07] <mac_v> djsiegel1: i think you can ask seele to find 4 kuts first we can fill the rest later
[18:54] <mrooney1> djsiegel: round 5 had 11 bugs targeted, should one of them move to round 9 which has 9?
[18:54] <mrooney1> (also I just moved one to fix committed, hooray!)
[18:54] <djsiegel> mrooney1: wait 1 sec
[19:27] <djsiegel3> mrooney: usually there will be 10 papercuts + 1 paperkut
[20:01] <mrooney> ah, I see
[20:56] <mrooney> hm, I don't seem to see where bug 388949 is actually committed, do you know mac_v?
[20:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
[20:58] <mac_v> mrooney: the patch is done, but needs to be discussed upstream mailing lists , because of concerns about breaking translations
[20:58] <mac_v> we can fix it in ubuntu side alone , if we want
[20:58] <mrooney> ah okay, but there is no fix committed, right?
[20:59] <mrooney> maybe it should be set to Triaged?
[20:59] <mac_v> mrooney: nope , no lp  branches ,  triaged would be correct and unassign it
[21:00] <mrooney> okay cool, I shall adjust it, thanks :)
[21:50] <mccann_> hey djsiegel1 
[21:50] <djsiegel1> hey mccann_
[21:51] <mccann_> djsiegel1: was just curious how your backgrounds contest is coming?
[21:51] <djsiegel1> mccann_: really really well
[21:51] <djsiegel1> we've had 1,600 submissions
[21:51] <mccann_> nice!
[21:51] <djsiegel1> do you know how many submissions we got last time we did the wallpaper contest?
[21:51] <djsiegel1> 8!
[21:51] <mccann_> wow
[21:51] <djsiegel1> seriously
[21:52] <mccann_> yeah our gnome contest last year didn't get too many
[21:52] <djsiegel1> that's the difference between using the Ubuntu wiki to collect submissions, and flickr
[21:52] <mccann_> agree
[21:52] <mccann_> smart move
[21:52] <djsiegel1> It's the new eyes we have on the design team
[21:52] <mccann_> is there any way to verify the authenticity of the license on each?
[21:52] <djsiegel1> we were all like "umm, we are not using this wiki"
[21:53] <djsiegel1> mccann_: well, I am supposed to write a script this week
[21:53] <djsiegel1> to download them all and categorize by license 
[21:53] <djsiegel1> then we are going to figure out how to pick
[21:53] <mccann_> many times on flickr people incorrectly tag with CC
[21:53] <djsiegel1> hopefully there are 8 or 10 really good ones in there
[21:53] <djsiegel1> well, maybe we'll whittle it down to 100
[21:53] <mccann_> as i noticed when I was collecting images for the background survey I did
[21:53] <djsiegel1> or 50
[21:53] <djsiegel1> then start doing some more investigation
[21:54] <djsiegel1> we will contact artists directly before using their work
[21:54] <mccann_> good idea
[21:54] <djsiegel1> just to verify, and to get a larger copy of the image
[21:54] <mccann_> yeah
[21:54] <mccann_> are you going for different themes?
[21:54] <djsiegel1> I am not sure, I don't think I will be involved with picking the finalists
[21:54] <mccann_> btw http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/art/State%20of%20the%20Art%20-%20Wallpapers%20-%202009-08-07.pdf
[21:55] <mccann_> how are you judging?
[21:55] <djsiegel1> mccann_: I don;t know yet
[21:56] <djsiegel1> mccann_: this is cool
[21:56] <mccann_> djsiegel1: you should check out the win7 ones in there
[21:56] <djsiegel1> I know, I have seen them
[21:56] <djsiegel1> that's what kicked this off
[21:56] <mccann_> it would be great to have different categories like that
[21:56] <djsiegel1> I saw these and frantically emailed some folks saying "we can't let windows ship more interesting wallpapers"
[21:56] <mccann_> yeah i did the same
[21:56] <djsiegel1> those XP ones are still pretty great
[21:56] <mccann_> except i didn't have the time to follow up :)
[21:57] <mccann_> I'm excited that you did !
[21:57] <mccann_> so what do you think about putting some of these in gnome-backgrounds?
[21:58] <djsiegel1> well, I guess that's the call of the original artists
[21:58] <djsiegel1> I am sure they won't object
[21:58] <djsiegel1> although I also think we'd like to have some ubuntu-only ones
[21:58] <mccann_> but you are licensing CC-BY-SA right?
[21:58] <djsiegel1> but there's no way we could or would push something like that
[21:58] <djsiegel1> I don;t know much about CC licensing to be honest
[21:58] <mccann_> what is your license requirement ?
[21:59] <mccann_> do you have contest rules?
[22:00] <djsiegel1> mccann_: yeah, check my blog
[22:00] <djsiegel1> it links to the wiki describing the contest
[22:00] <djsiegel1> I think we should do pre-defined categories for the next release
[22:01] <djsiegel1> say "we're looking for 5 photos of flowers, 5 of animals, and 5 abstract illustrations"
[22:03] <djsiegel1> mccann_: have you seen the snow leopard ones yet?
[22:03] <mccann_> some of them
[22:04] <mccann_> ok so the guidelines page doesn't have licensing requirements apparently
[22:05] <mccann_> but your blog post says CC-BY-SA is required
[22:17] <mccann_> djsiegel1: anyway looks like it will be very successful.  I didn't see the deadline listed.  When will the selections be made?
[22:18] <djsiegel1> mccann_: I am going to write the script to download submissions pretty soon
[22:18] <djsiegel1> will probably run it this weekend
[22:19] <djsiegel1> so if you want to get something in, I recommend doing it ASAP
[22:19] <mccann_> ok
[22:47] <maco> djsiegel1: why have the pdf output of stuff go to Desktop? Documents seems more sensible... portable document format...
[22:47] <djsiegel1> maco: I am just worried about discoverability
[22:47] <djsiegel1> ~/Documents works too
[22:47] <djsiegel1> well...
[22:47] <djsiegel1> actually
[22:48] <djsiegel1> think about what you are doing after you print to pdf
[22:48] <djsiegel1> why do users print to pdf? what comes next?
[22:48] <djsiegel1> that was my original justification for Documents < Desktop
[22:48] <djsiegel1> the argument is, the PDF is transitory
[22:48] <djsiegel1> it's going to be sent or printed, then usually discarded
[22:48] <djsiegel1> the source document is kept, probably in ~/Documents
[22:49] <djsiegel1> so the Desktop is used as a scratch space, thinking that the user is about to go do something with the shiny PDF they just made
[22:50] <djsiegel1> this is a stretch, but think about when you physically print a document
[22:50] <djsiegel1> it ends up in your working area, your "desktop"
[22:50] <maco> hmm ok. i usually consider the pdf the "Final" version
[22:50] <djsiegel1> you may email it, or send it
[22:50] <djsiegel1> maco: so, you print PDFs then file them away?
[22:50] <djsiegel1> so later, when you refer to the document, or print or send it, you use the PDF?
[22:51] <maco> yes
[22:51] <djsiegel1> I do that with old documents I am not working on any more
[22:51] <djsiegel1> "final" versions
[22:51] <maco> maybe it comes from being a latex-user, but i do all my printing from evince or okular
[22:51] <djsiegel1> sounds like a special case, but nonetheless a valid one :)
[22:52] <djsiegel1> maco: maybe we can test PDF usage next, after we finish the archive behavior research?
[22:52] <maco> i just figure anyone that's noticed how .doc and .odf can inexplicably change when moved from system to system uses pdf
[22:52] <maco> archive behaviour?
[22:52] <maco> OH zips tars?
[22:52] <djsiegel1> haha
[22:52] <djsiegel1> exactly
[22:52] <maco> i was thinking achive.ubuntu.com
[22:52] <djsiegel1> we had ZERO people participate in the distributed user test
[22:53] <maco> the phrase "the archive" means the same as "the repos" to me, so that was a -ENOPARSE
[22:53] <maco> distributed user test?
[22:53] <djsiegel1> maco: http://davidsiegel.org/distributed-user-testing-archives/
[22:59] <maco> i kinda think a more common sense name for archive would be bundle
[23:00] <maco> the concept of bundling things up is fairly straight forward
[23:00] <maco> hard to transfer 10 files at once / hard to carry 10 things at once ... so you put them in a bundle and carry /transfer the bundle
[23:00] <maco> archives are like...basements...things go there and never come back