[00:16] <Jazzva> asac: hello
[00:16] <Jazzva> and hello everyone
[00:18] <Jazzva> asac: regarding nspluginwrapper... upstream added new option to nspluginwrapper executable, which shortform collides with one that we added. what should i do? the colliding options are "nosymlink" and "native"
[00:34] <fta> Jazzva, does nspluginwrapper still work for you? (since the ia32 update)
[00:35] <Jazzva> fta: yes, but I'm using 32-bit system anyway.
[00:37] <fta> some people complained that o3d now segfault in nspluginwrapper
[00:37] <Jazzva> o3d?
[00:37] <fta> http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2009/04/google-releases-3d-graphics-plugin-for-browsers.ars
[00:39] <fta> well, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-webtech/+archive/o3d-daily
[00:39] <Jazzva> fta: ia32 is only used on 64-bit systems, right?
[00:40] <Jazzva> I'll give a try to o3d plugin anyway, just to see if I'm getting segfaults :)
[00:42] <Jazzva> fta: any link where I can test this plugin?
[00:42] <Jazzva> ok, found them
[00:44] <fta> it may not work for your h/w
[00:47] <Jazzva> fta: it probably isn't. and I don't see it in about:plugins :/
[00:48] <fta> 32bit? weird, it should be there, even if it doesn't support your video chipset (that's visible during rendering)
[00:49] <Jazzva> fta: do I need to install o3d-tools, too?
[00:56] <fta> no
[00:56] <fta> it's useful when you create o3d scenes
[01:04] <Jazzva> fta: then it's weird... I'm not seeing o3d in plugins yet...
[01:07] <fta> Jazzva, on 32bit without nsp?
[01:07] <Jazzva> fta: on 32bit with nsp
[01:08] <fta> try without
[01:08] <fta> well, it should be without by default
[01:08] <Jazzva> fta: what should be without it by default?
[01:08] <fta> o3d
[01:09] <fta> i didn't package it with nsp on 32bit
[01:09] <Jazzva> sorry, i meant "without what"? :)
[01:09] <Jazzva> well, i'm using nsp... so you want me to remove nsp
[01:09] <Jazzva> ?
[01:12] <Jazzva> fta: I removed nspluginwrapper, reinstalled o3d-plugin, and still nothing.
[01:13] <fta> nothing in the console?
[01:13] <fta> i mean shell
[01:14] <Jazzva> fta: http://paste.ubuntu.com/251106/
[01:15] <Jazzva> I actually got that error message 6 times, instead of 2.
[01:16] <fta> hm, no /etc/ld.so.conf.d/o3d-plugin.conf ?
[01:20] <fta> LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library libXt.so [libXt.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]
[01:20] <fta> LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/lib/o3d-plugin/32/libnpo3dautoplugin.so [libCg.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]
[01:20] <Jazzva> fta: it's there
[01:20] <fta> oh, this is different, libCg.so cannot be loaded because of libXt.so
[01:21] <fta> of course, the .so is in a -dev, bad :(
[01:21] <fta> well, bad from o3d, not Xt
[01:22] <fta> hmm
[01:32] <fta> Jazzva, strange, it works if i set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /usr/lib/o3d/ before starting ff
[01:33] <fta> which means my /etc/ld.so.conf.d/o3d-plugin.conf is not longer working
[01:33] <Jazzva> I'll give it a try in a minute :)
[01:36] <fta> -not+no
[01:49] <fta> Jazzva, hm, just try sudo ldconfig
[01:49] <fta> i should drop the two non-lib files in /usr/lib/o3d/
[01:52] <Jazzva> fta: it works now, but I don't think my hardware is supported
[01:53] <Jazzva> and I got a segfault with nsp, but I'm not sure if that's because of mentioned reason, or crashy ff3.5 :)
[01:55] <Jazzva> fta: after trying again with nsp, I will say that segfault was related to crashy ff3.5.
[01:56] <fta> hm
[01:56] <fta> nsp is crashing on 64bit for me, but asac said he did something to it so i don't know
[01:58] <Jazzva> he did upload -0ubuntu6 on sunday. here's the changelog, if that helps http://paste.ubuntu.com/251119/
[03:15] <Jazzva> Hmm... so I have accidentally pushed the same version of nspluginwrapper to my PPA, as the one I have prepared for the archive. Will this cause any problems?
[09:13] <asac> Jazzva: in general its not a problem. its just in case there is something that needs to be improved
[09:13] <asac> that you need to raise version again ;)
[09:24] <asac> Jazzva: did you get what i mean ;)
[09:25] <asac> e.g. about uncommiting nspluginwrapper and reapplying what i uploaded as ubuntu6?
[09:33] <asac> hmm ... prism seems to be not compatible with 3.5.*
[09:34] <asac> fta: is it because we didnt upload latest daily builds for a while? wanna do?
[09:48] <asac> Jazzva: you could have used debcommit -e ;) for the reply thing ... but ok. it was my fault initially. thanks.
[10:32] <asac> multisearch gone: http://identi.ca/notice/7918170 ;)
[10:32] <asac> sladen: ^^
[10:37] <asac> bdrung_: http://identi.ca/notice/7918352
[10:37] <asac> mozilla-devscript in debian ;)
[10:37] <asac> (at last)
[10:40] <bdrung_> asac: i saw it yesterday. short after that pwdhash was accepted. now there are less than 200 packages in NEW (previous over 300).
[10:41] <bdrung_> asac: how about having a build-xpi target instead of a variable for it (that would make long build commands more readable).
[10:41] <bdrung_> ?
[10:46] <asac> bdrung_: we could make BUILD_XPI an optional command and also have a build-xpi:: hook that runs that command if its set
[10:46] <bdrung_> asac: yes, that's what i would like to see
[10:52] <asac> bdrung_: i wanted to upload 0.14 now ... but we will have at least 0.15 before feature week. just want to discuss with the debian extension team if they are happy to adapt their policy according to what we did or if there are things we should add
[10:53] <bdrung_> asac: ok, upload it. we can add this to 0.15
[11:01] <gnomefreak> asac: keeping 3.0 in repos?
[11:20] <asac> gnomefreak: for now yes.
[11:21] <asac> gnomefreak: for final -> most likely not
[11:28] <gnomefreak> asac: ok thanks
[11:43] <gnomefreak> finally M$ makes an app and uses a GPL and i get a call at ~3am telling me its not free. everywhere i read it is
[11:44] <gnomefreak> s/is/is free
[11:51] <gnomefreak> tbird3 seems to have dropped the word wrap from the preferences from 2.0>3.0
[11:53] <asac> gnomefreak: which app are you talking about?
[11:56] <gnomefreak> asac: MSE thier new "free" antivirus
[11:56] <gnomefreak> they are planning to includ it by default in Windows7 but have made it for XP already
[12:04]  * gnomefreak do email than figure out why patch is failing and why rejects dont look like rejects
[12:28] <gnomefreak> mailing list admin fun is done
[12:28] <asac> thx
[12:28] <gnomefreak> np
[12:38] <bdrung_> asac: the Vcs-Bzr entry in -devscript's control file needs an update.
[12:39] <gnomefreak> anyone see crashes when bringing http://jasoncalacanis.posterous.com/virgin-america-lax-to-jfk to foreground or opening it in foreground?
[12:40] <gnomefreak> also need someone to try and reproduce bug 314227
[12:41] <asac> bdrung_: indeed.
[12:42] <gnomefreak> the bug for the crash is bug 228806
[12:44] <asac> bdrung_: fixed
[12:50] <asac> i guess we didnt break existing extensions ?
[12:50]  * asac hopes not
[12:52] <bdrung_> asac: why should we break them?
[12:52] <bdrung_> asac: what the heck is that: Vcs-Bzr: lp:~mozillateam/mozclient/mozclient.dev
[12:53] <asac> hmm
[12:53] <asac> did i mess that up again :)
[12:53] <bdrung_> yes
[12:53] <bdrung_> but the browser is correct
[12:53] <asac> indeed
[12:53] <asac> man i such
[12:53] <asac> suck
[12:54] <bdrung_> and you should break the long lines, and apply the new standards-version
[12:55] <asac> we can do that later.
[12:56] <asac> ok fixing it now :-P
[12:56] <asac> because sid chroot takes a while to update anyway
[12:57] <bdrung_> asac: why didn't you use "lp:mozilla-devscripts"?
[12:59] <gnomefreak> asac: you removed multisearch only from 3.0 not 3.5?
[12:59] <asac> whats the current standards version
[12:59] <asac> gnomefreak: it was never in 3.5
[12:59] <gnomefreak> oh i thought i had it in it
[12:59] <bdrung_> asac: 3.8.2
[12:59] <gnomefreak> looking
[13:00] <gnomefreak> asac: i have it in 3.5
[13:00] <asac> bdrung_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/251316/ please check
[13:01] <asac> committed
[13:01] <bdrung_> asac: instead of tabs i would use spaces to indent
[13:01] <bdrung_> asac: you could break depends and suggests, too
[13:01] <asac> nah tabs are good ;)
[13:01] <asac> they are not that long yet.
[13:02] <bdrung_> asac: example: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/audacity.git;a=blob;f=debian/control;h=e16566658f1da3d586546dd67016eb515e53642e;hb=1077cc97081a64774254cd5122c2d13ef8c27078
[13:03] <bdrung_> asac: W: mozilla-devscripts: debian-changelog-line-too-long line 35
[13:03] <bdrung_> W: mozilla-devscripts: debian-changelog-line-too-long line 38
[13:03] <bdrung_> W: mozilla-devscripts: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/med-xpi-pack
[13:03] <bdrung_> W: mozilla-devscripts: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/med-xpi-unpack
[13:03] <bdrung_> W: mozilla-devscripts: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/moz-version
[13:03] <bdrung_> W: mozilla-devscripts: script-not-executable ./usr/share/mozilla-devscripts/lp-locale-export.mk
[13:03] <bdrung_> W: mozilla-devscripts: script-not-executable ./usr/share/mozilla-devscripts/minefield-packager.mk
[13:04] <bdrung_> and W: mozilla-devscripts source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends mozilla-devscripts
[13:04] <asac> i am not a standards fetish :). if you want we can clean everything up in 0.15
[13:04] <asac> only thing is the changelog line which i usually try to not make too long
[13:05] <asac> uploading as is now.
[13:05] <bdrung_> asac: ok, i will make lintian happy for 0.15 (except the man pages, someone else should write them)
[13:05] <asac> thx!!
[13:06] <bdrung_> yw
[13:06] <bdrung_> asac: you fail in writing changelogs: "bump standards version to 3.8.3"
[13:07] <bdrung_> you bumped it correctly to 3.8.2
[13:07] <bdrung_> 3.8.3 is not released, yet
[13:07] <asac> i wrote a changlog entry? thats just bzr commit
[13:07] <asac> anyway. you are right. i will keep my fingers off from standard version bumps in future
[13:07] <asac> never saw the benefit of them ;)
[13:08] <bdrung_> asac: ok, you only messed the bzr commit message. ;)
[13:08] <asac> i would think one only should bump the standard version if one adjust something that uses new details specified ... but i guess most disagree
[13:09] <bdrung_> asac: no, you need to update the standards-version, if your package is compatible to it.
[13:09] <asac> e.g. i look from the other side: if i dont need to change packaging in newest standards that i dont require the latest standard to explain my packaging
[13:10] <gnomefreak> do we support linuxmint?
[13:10] <asac> bdrung_: honestly i dont know if my packages are compatible - actually because there are lintian warnings i would think its not ;)
[13:10] <asac> e.g. would lintian spitout an error if we were not compatible?
[13:11] <bdrung_> asac: probably for some parts, but most lintian warnings do not imply an incompatibility to the standard-version.
[13:12] <bdrung_> asac: lintian checks are for packaging mistaces, deprecated thing, etc.
[13:12] <bdrung_> gnomefreak: do you refer to -devscripts?
[13:12] <asac> gnomefreak: if folks file bugs that are valid here, then yes. otherwise no
[13:13] <bdrung_> asac: have a look at http://git.debian.org/?p=dbnpolicy/policy.git;a=blob_plain;f=upgrading-checklist.html;h=f657e279fd9421b06749990a453e8d968388ed6d;hb=2896ed649157a2ff9b1ad2a128acdfb08cc90eb8
[13:13] <asac> that still requires me to look up the details ;)
[13:13] <asac> Tighten some format requirements for changelog files from a should to a must.
[13:13] <asac> (4.4)
[13:15] <asac> i will try to take more care in future :-P
[13:15] <bdrung_> :)
[13:17] <gnomefreak> asac: ok ill leave it than.
[13:17] <gnomefreak> bdrung_: no firefox+linuxmint
[13:18] <bdrung_> gnomefreak: ok
[13:40] <gnomefreak> what browsers does ubuntu have other than QT that are not xulrunner dependant?
[13:43] <gnomefreak> gui browsers
[13:51] <fta> asac, feel free to do it, no time
[13:54]  * gnomefreak finally done with email
[13:56] <gnomefreak> the time i need dchen hes not here :(
[13:59] <asac> gnomefreak: midori aurora? ... webkit based browsers in general
[14:00] <gnomefreak> oh forgot about midori, never heard of aurora :) and i asked him to test on epiphany-webkit
[14:01] <gnomefreak> it seems once you fixed firefox-3.0 to remove multisearch it got removed from 3.5 as well
[14:03] <asac> fta: is there any packaging work we would need to do to do 3.0 dailies too? (e.g. so hardy users get a good backport of the way we transition)
[14:04] <fta> asac, probably nothing, just add it to the bot
[14:04] <fta> +need to
[14:06] <asac> fta: ok ... maybe think a bit if there are any reasons not to do that. i dont see any atm
[14:06] <asac> fta: i think we could just do firefox-3.0 backport not xul 1.9 to not eat even more builders cycles
[14:07] <gnomefreak> not placing it in umd right?
[14:07] <asac> though it feels safer to do everything
[14:07] <asac> gnomefreak: adding 3.0 to umd ... thats the idea
[14:08] <gnomefreak> asac: IMHO a bad one. that means people can use and most likely install other versions and not sure we want them to use them? 3.0 has release monthly anyway
[14:09] <gnomefreak> have we tested anything on hardy/intrepid yet?
[14:09] <gnomefreak> makes for a very unstable system for users that dont have a clue
[14:10] <asac> gnomefreak: you dont understand the problem
[14:10] <asac> gnomefreak: without changing firefox, running our dailies will make firefox 3 completely disappear
[14:10] <asac> for them
[14:10] <asac> people that opt-in to dailies opt-into getting the karmic experience as close as possible
[14:10] <asac> that also menas that they need the karmic firefox 3 package
[14:10] <gnomefreak> if installing 3.5 at least i just commented on a bug with that
[14:11] <asac> and eventually they get migrated to firefox 3.5 by default
[14:11] <asac> the problem is that we dont have a ppa for ffox 3.5 that want a safe backport
[14:11] <gnomefreak> ah i get it now sorry about that.
[14:11] <asac> no problem
[14:12] <gnomefreak> once we find a place for it and i get SM bullshit worked out i have no problems running builds for 8.04 and 8.10 but first on my list is this profile patch shit
[14:12] <gnomefreak> maybe tomorrow or thursday
[14:13] <gnomefreak> oh and i dont recall # having anything to do with rejects
[14:13] <asac> gnomefreak: i will upload your bits still asap
[14:13] <asac> maybe today
[14:13] <asac> latest tomorrow
[14:13] <asac> sm + sun
[14:14] <asac> sorry for the delay again. its an awful busy time atm
[14:14] <gnomefreak> not to mention patching the file that the rejects go to makes it a PITA as well but i will get it this week i hope
[14:14] <gnomefreak> asac: i know
[14:14] <gnomefreak> asac: np :)
[14:19] <gnomefreak> autoconf2.13 would have nothing to do with profile patch right? IIRC SM2* has autoconf enabled in rules
[14:26] <gnomefreak> i dont see rejects here http://paste.ubuntu.com/251366/  the orig patch is http://paste.ubuntu.com/251369/  if you see rejects please let me know.
[14:26] <gnomefreak> unless that is not the whole file but no way to tell that
[14:29] <fta> asac, when i start ff or chromium, the 1st thing i see is a square at the top left corner of the window
[14:32] <asac> fta: yes. just for a short time though. feels like a compiz issue
[14:32] <asac> e.g. zooming in windows
[14:32] <asac> or something
[14:32] <fta> i'm not using compiz
[14:33] <fta> metacity + compositing
[14:33] <asac> could be related
[14:33] <asac> does it go away without compositing
[14:33] <asac> ?
[14:36] <fta> asac, no
[14:37] <gnomefreak> dont recall what browser it was but i know not ff i saw it im install chromium atm to see if it was that. not using any compositing or compiz
[14:37] <asac> fta: for me it doesnt feel like a new issue
[14:37] <asac> but i guess its X or gtk then
[14:37] <fta> for me, it appeared a few days ago, maybe weeks, but no more
[14:38] <fta> i'd bet on gtk
[14:38] <gnomefreak> i had to close the one i saw though
[14:39] <gnomefreak> i had 2 pop-up but they left when browser loaded start page
[14:39] <gnomefreak> on chromium
[14:39] <gnomefreak> maybe the new tab tabs?
[14:40] <gnomefreak> fta: i think that is it. now i only saw one and only one new tab tab
[14:42] <gnomefreak> it still loads 2 tabs on start im looking for a way to disable one of them
[14:43] <gnomefreak> fta: is there a way to drop about:linux-splash from opening?
[14:44] <fta> no, it's hardcoded by upstream
[14:44] <gnomefreak> well crap you cant disable home page either
[14:44] <fta> hm, you can
[14:45] <gnomefreak> not in options i cant, at least that i can see
[14:46] <gnomefreak> its either going to open new tab+the about:* page  or its going to open home page+ about:linux*
[14:46]  * gnomefreak wants to make sure its the extra tab you are seeing
[14:46] <gnomefreak> s/you/we
[14:48] <gnomefreak> thats not it. i used open tabs last open and it only opened the one tab and still see the square
[14:48] <fta> imho, it's an early expose event during the window creation, or something like that, not a tab thing
[14:49] <gnomefreak> fta: got that at least i was thinking that but checked because first start up i got 2 squares and 2 new tab tabs than down to 1 and 1
[15:05] <bdrung_> asac: i found a bug in -devscripts.
[15:05] <gnomefreak> !info thunderbird
[15:05] <gnomefreak> !info thunderbird jaunty
[15:05] <bdrung_> asac: take pwdhash and have a look into the install.rdf
[15:07] <bdrung_> asac: it uses "RDF:RDF" instead of "RDF", "RDF:Description" instead of "Description" and therefore your xml parsing command fail
[15:11] <jaymtee_> so what is the 'correct' version of thunderbird/lightning to be using with the latest ubuntu?
[15:12] <gnomefreak> jaymtee_: 2.0.0.22
[15:12] <gnomefreak> lighting 0.9 in jaunty + karmic
[15:12] <jaymtee_> is that thunderbird or lightining or a combo?
[15:12] <statik> hi asac, just checking about uploading bindwood - anything you need from me? (i know you are very busy with the firefox transition, sorry to nag)
[15:13] <gnomefreak> tbird=2.0.0.22 lightning=0.9+nobinonly-0ubuntu2
[15:13] <gnomefreak> jaymtee_: ^^^
[15:13] <jaymtee_> tnks
[15:13] <gnomefreak> jaymtee_: np
[15:14] <jaymtee_> got that tb... now need to get correct lightning I guess
[15:14] <gnomefreak> jaymtee_: repos have it
[15:14] <gnomefreak> jaymtee_: install lightning-extension
[15:16] <jaymtee_> TypeError: Components.classes["@mozilla.org/calendar/calendar;1?type=" + type] has no properties
[15:16] <jaymtee_> i'm still getting this
[15:16] <jaymtee_> just did an apt-get install and it sure looks like it got the right version
[15:16] <jaymtee_> Setting up calendar-google-provider (0.9+nobinonly-0ubuntu2) ...
[15:19] <gnomefreak> jaymtee_: when do you get that?
[15:21] <jaymtee_> i removed the existing extensions and apt-get removed, and then apt-gte installed and now it is happy
[15:21] <jaymtee_> must have had older versions installed in thuinderbird
[15:22] <gnomefreak> ok cool.
[15:23] <jaymtee_> ack... google calendar server is unavailable!
[15:25] <gnomefreak> please tell me that google not me. jaymtee_ what are you doing when you get it?
[15:25] <Jazzva> asac: thanks for the reply :). i had a problem with colliding short options... for example, both --native and --nosymlinks used the short version -n. it was like that even before, so looking from the code -n would always mean --native.
[15:26] <Jazzva> asac: I changed that to -x for --nosymlinks. i first did change to -s, but then i noticed that in debian patch they added --systemonly, which uses -s too
[15:27] <jaymtee_> gnomefreak: it's a google problem... just frustrating
[15:27] <gnomefreak> oh good. tired of fixing it for now. ubuntu3 will have a bunch of fixes 5-6 bugs fixed
[15:27] <jaymtee_> you want to try?  I don't know why it would be site specific.. but you never know
[15:28] <jaymtee_> http://www.google.com/calendar
[15:28] <gnomefreak> looking
[15:31] <gnomefreak> hm this is not good. jaymtee_ when i get a spare minute i will test, i have a conflict here between 1.0 and 0.9 that is my fault though
[15:39] <jaymtee_> twitter is abuzz with goggle calendar failure
[15:39] <asac> Jazzva: i think we should drop the short options until we get this upstreamed to avoid conflicts etc.
[15:40] <gnomefreak> jaymtee_: good let google screw with it :) im trying something to get around the conflict. i should know better than to play with upstream too much
[15:40] <gnomefreak> ill be back inn a few
[15:41] <Jazzva> asac: ok, i'll change that, and then see if everything still works correctly
[15:42] <asac> Jazzva: thanks. you think the current change is upstreamable?
[15:44] <Jazzva> asac: what change exactly?
[15:44] <Jazzva> all of them? (nosymlinks, systemonly, NSPLUGIN_DIRS)
[15:48] <asac> Jazzva: systemonly i guess
[15:48] <asac> and nosymlinks
[15:51] <Jazzva> asac: nosymlinks are usable for us and debian. it actually prevents from calling code which installs symlinks on debian systems. but still, it would be good if there's no need to refresh that patch :). and it will improve upstream code for people on debian/ubuntu
[15:52] <Jazzva> asac: and for systemonly, although i don't see the need to only update the plugins in system dirs, it looks ok
[15:53] <Jazzva> so we can submit those two and then see if the upstream thinks if they're improving the main tree.
[15:54] <asac> Jazzva: i think distro needs are valid argument enough as long as it doesnt break upstream tree in some way
[15:54] <bdrung_> asac: can lp-locale-export.mk and minefield-packager.mk run directly or are they only usefull if they are included somewhere else?
[15:55] <Jazzva> asac: i think they're ok ... didn't notice any breakage to the code
[16:01] <gnomefreak> this is gonna be harder than i thought i seems i have to find all bits and remove them. maybe tomorrow. it worked fine until i installed 1.0
[16:03] <fta> bdmurray, minefield-packager.mk is alone
[16:04] <fta> bdmurray, oops, nm
[16:04] <fta> bdrung_, ^^
[16:04] <fta> confusing nicks..
[16:04] <bdrung_> :)
[16:04] <fta> usually, 2 letters + tab are enough ;)
[16:05] <bdrung_> fta: should i marry and adpot the name? ;)
[16:05] <bdrung_> s/adpot/adopt/
[16:05] <bdrung_> fta: alone = stand alone?
[16:05] <bdrung_> fta: = keeping shebang?
[16:06] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak
[16:06] <fta> yep
[16:06] <gnomefreak> damn someone else type my nick please
[16:06] <fta> gnomefreak, test
[16:06] <bdrung_> gnomefreak: why?
[16:06]  * gnomefreak testing sound
[16:06] <gnomefreak> yes it works. thanks :)
[16:07] <bdrung_> freak :)
[16:07] <gnomefreak> bdrung_: because im a moron and had speakers in wrong sound card again :(
[16:07] <bdrung_> gnomefreak: and highlighting makes sound? there are programs to test the speaker.
[16:08] <gnomefreak> bdrung_: i know its easier for someone to type nick than to go through all kinds of tests screens ( at least in the hardware tester)
[16:08] <gnomefreak> if there is an easier please please let me know
[16:09] <bdrung_> gnomefreak: yes, there is: speaker-test
[16:09] <bdrung_> i used it to test my 5.1 setup
[16:09] <gnomefreak> i get static sounds
[16:10] <fta> 5.1 never worked for me
[16:10] <bdrung> gnomefreak: rtfm for speaker-test
[16:11] <bdrung> fta: purging pulseaudio solved my problems.
[16:11] <fta> lol
[16:12] <bdrung> fta: i have to remove pulseaudio on two systems.
[16:12] <bdrung> fta: so 50/50
[16:13] <asac> Jazzva: cool. do you want to submit them?
[16:14] <asac> i am subscribed to the list, so i should see them and jump in if they have questions
[16:14] <bdrung> fta: what is with lp-locale-export.mk?
[16:15] <fta> export the lang packs for launchpad at build time
[16:15] <bdrung> fta: is it stand alone?
[16:15] <Jazzva> asac: ok. it's ok if they come from debian?
[16:15] <Jazzva> asac: i mean, maybe maintainers from debian didn't submit the patches before, because they had some reason...
[16:15] <Jazzva> which i can't see
[16:16] <fta> bdrung, always called from a debian/rules
[16:16] <bdrung> fta: called or included?
[16:16] <fta> included
[16:16] <asac> bdrung: we might want to improve that actually ;)
[16:16] <fta> why?
[16:16] <asac> (the lp-locale-export) ... but lest talk about that after alpha4 rush
[16:17] <asac> Jazzva: those are our patches
[16:17] <bdrung> fta: when makefiles are included they do not need a shebang and do not need to be executable. otherwise they need to be executable if they include a shebang
[16:17] <asac> Jazzva: debian from time to time picks them
[16:17] <fta> well, lang packs are dark magic for me, it's obscure what does what
[16:17] <asac> we should also suggest those to them. but if we upstream them they get that automatically
[16:17] <asac> fta: thats ok. its dark magic to be true ;)
[16:17] <Jazzva> asac: are you sure? i didn't notice systemonly in our packages before :).
[16:18] <asac> fta: what it does is that it filters out all the chrome stuff that is locale related
[16:18] <asac> and creates a en-US.xpi for you with just locale stuff and a locale only chrome.manifest
[16:18] <fta> bdrung, i know that but it doesn't really matter here, don't be too picky with those details ;)
[16:18] <fta> asac, i can read your code, i just don't know what lp does with it
[16:18] <bdrung> fta: i am currently fixing lintian warnings
[16:18] <asac> i disagree with lintian complaining about our scripts not being executable
[16:18] <bdrung> fta: that's why
[16:19] <asac> fta: ah ... thats often magic to me too ;)
[16:19] <fta> asac, i mean, i can't obviously do the same in other packages, lp will just ignore me
[16:19] <asac> fta: you can do the same in all packages.
[16:19] <bdrung> asac: with a shebang it should be executable.
[16:19] <asac> fta: its just that launchpad refuses the uploads for non-main packages
[16:19] <asac> so all main packages work
[16:19] <bdrung> asac: otherwise the shebang is useless.
[16:19] <asac> also you can take the produced en-US:xpi and upload it to a launchpad project manually
[16:19] <asac> so you can translate mozilla stuff there
[16:21] <asac> bdrung: yeah, one of the details i usually dont care about. But then the longer you do this the more ignorant you get about lintian and I am more than happy if someone fixes the complains ;)
[16:22] <bdrung> asac: lintian is a very usefull tool, but it is not 100% perfect.
[16:23] <fta> asac, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-firefox-3.5 needs an update
[16:23] <padrecarlo> hi
[16:23] <padrecarlo> how can i backup my thunderbird e-mails?
[16:23] <padrecarlo> ubuntu 8.04 runs
[16:25] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: save the .thunderbird profile:) im sur eyou can export them as well i never tried though. i know importing from outlook is not possible yet
[16:26] <padrecarlo> where save thunderbird the e-mails?
[16:26] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: in the dir named .thunderbird
[16:27] <gnomefreak> i guess there is no export
[16:27]  * gnomefreak saves profile
[16:27] <padrecarlo> and where is the profile?
[16:28] <padrecarlo> or start thunderbird, and anywhere in the menu?
[16:31] <gnomefreak> asac: am i missing some export menu in thunderbird
[16:31] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: its in your home dir named .thunderbird  the . is important you can find it using view hidden files in nautilus
[16:32] <padrecarlo> nautilus?
[16:32] <asac> gnomefreak: the mails are kept in mailbox format
[16:32] <asac> there is no way to export them
[16:32] <asac> you can just copy the folders with the mail out of the profile
[16:32] <gnomefreak> asac: ah profile is only way than
[16:33] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: are you using ngome or kde?
[16:33] <gnomefreak> gnome even
[16:33] <padrecarlo> gnome
[16:33] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: go to Places>Home Folder
[16:33] <padrecarlo> yo
[16:33] <gnomefreak> once there click view> view hidden files (something named like that)
[16:34] <padrecarlo> i found profiles.ini
[16:34] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: sorry its called .mozilla-thunderbird
[16:35] <padrecarlo> yes, i found it
[16:35] <asac> padrecarlo: there is a randome dir inside like xjasd123.default
[16:35] <asac> thats where the used profile usually is
[16:35] <padrecarlo> yes
[16:35] <asac> there are Mail or ImapMail folders
[16:35] <asac> those contain the mail
[16:35]  * gnomefreak saves the whole dir. makes my settings magicly come back :)
[16:35] <asac> yeah
[16:35] <asac> to be safe backup the full .mozilla-thunderbird ... especially if this is about backing stuff up
[16:36] <bdrung> asac: how to request a merge from the command line.
[16:36] <bdrung> ?
[16:36] <padrecarlo> so i should save the whole xjad...12
[16:36] <padrecarlo> .default file?
[16:37]  * gnomefreak wonders if export isnt something that we should have to make life easier in exporting mails from tbird2 to tbird3 or to evo or something like that. they are looking  into adding import from outlook thing
[16:37] <Jazzva> asac: I think I'll have to use some short option for nosymlinks. Otherwise I get compile-time errors about empty character constant. The other option would be to use some non-printable character code for short option. So, what is better for patch submission and release for the archives?
[16:37] <gnomefreak> thing == lost train of thought
[16:37] <asac> bdrung: thats something i would like to know if you find out ;)
[16:37] <padrecarlo> and how can i restore it to a new thunderbird?
[16:37] <asac> Jazzva: maybe '' ?
[16:37] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: move it from saved location to home folder
[16:38] <padrecarlo> ok
[16:38] <asac> there should be a way to add options without a short option
[16:38] <padrecarlo> thanks
[16:38] <bdrung> asac: normally i use the browser for it, but https://code.launchpad.net/~bdrung failed with a timeout
[16:38] <asac> maybe some preserved char
[16:38] <bdrung> asac: bzr branch bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebdrung/mozilla-devscripts/lintian/
[16:38] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: that is if you back up the full .mozilla-thunderbird dir. if only *.defau;t you would place it back into the .mozilla-thunderbird dir
[16:38] <bdrung> asac: this is the lintian fix branch
[16:39] <bdrung> asac: only a lintian bug and the missing man pages are remaining
[16:39] <Jazzva> asac: it complained with ''
[16:39] <padrecarlo> it will be better an extra extension for it....
[16:39] <Jazzva> that's what I tried, just removed the char and left ''
[16:39] <asac> Jazzva: what parser does it use?
[16:40] <asac> Jazzva: yeah. maybe try \0
[16:40] <asac> or just 0
[16:40] <gnomefreak> padrecarlo: there may be one but i use as few extensions in tbird as possible
[16:41] <Jazzva> asac: it tests in the if-condition ... (opt[0] == '-' && opt[1] == options[j].short), where options[j] is struct which keeps short and long options (with  callback functions, etc...)
[16:41] <gnomefreak> i have lightning and engimail and thats it
[16:41] <Jazzva> asac: ok, I'll go with non-printable char
[16:41] <bdrung> asac: how did you do the merge?
[16:41] <padrecarlo> ok thanks
[16:42] <asac> bdrung: i didnt do the merge. i requested a merge for you ;)
[16:42] <Jazzva> asac: I'm scared to try with \0... if someone places "-" at the end of command line, then the next char might be \0
[16:42] <asac> bdrung: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bdrung/mozilla-devscripts/lintian -> there i requested a merge ;)
[16:42] <asac> i think going directly to branch is less resource hungry and works more often
[16:42] <bdrung> asac: seams so.
[16:42] <asac> Jazzva: so it does its own parsing. then its trickier indeed
[16:43] <asac> Jazzva: no argv or getopt?
[16:43] <asac> bdrung: are all the other .mk files in mozclient executable?
[16:43] <asac> bdrung: is that done in makefile too? or are they just properly committed to bzr?
[16:44] <asac> we could also just change mod in bzr tree
[16:44] <bdrung> asac: all other .mk files either do not have a shebang or they are executable
[16:44]  * gnomefreak always a day behind on tbird3
[16:44] <micahg> hi gnomefreak
[16:44] <gnomefreak> hi micahg
[16:44] <bdrung> asac: i only modified the makefile / removed the shebang from the .mk file.
[16:45] <micahg> should we talk about the font issue?
[16:45] <gnomefreak> micahg: yeah although i havent seen him in a day or so and cant remember his nick :)
[16:46] <micahg> unfortunately, I wasn't too much help except to confirm there's a problem
[16:46] <micahg> bug 411707
[16:46] <gnomefreak> looking
[16:47] <asac> Jazzva: http://paste.ubuntu.com/251440/ ... wouldnt that allow us to use 0 ?
[16:48] <asac> we should probably make a separate patch out of "allow no short options" ;)
[16:48] <Jazzva> asac: it reads arguments from argv
[16:48] <asac> yes.
[16:48] <asac> i saw that now
[16:49] <asac> but the diff above should make it safe to use 0, "--long-option", ...
[16:49] <asac> imo
[16:49] <asac> for things that dont have long option
[16:49] <Jazzva> asac: i agree...
[16:50] <gnomefreak> micahg: where did you find Chancery what did you try to reproduce it. im all kinds of confused as to why 1 font would be the only one messed up and yet be firefoxes bug
[16:50] <asac> micahg: we have a master for that already
[16:50] <gnomefreak> asac: #?
[16:50] <asac> micahg: bug 379761
[16:50] <gnomefreak> thanks :)
[16:50] <asac> updated title now: bug 379761
[16:51] <asac> ubottu: wake up
[16:51] <gnomefreak> marked as such
[16:51] <asac> bug 379761
[16:51] <asac> hmm. guess lp is slow
[16:51] <Jazzva> asac: can I add that before all patches? just because it's logical to apply that patch before the one where we use empty short option (though it will make no difference)
[16:52] <asac> Jazzva: if you dont mind the rebasing work ... i think for upstream submission it should be the first of the patchset. yes
[16:52] <micahg> ah, guess I never understood what that bug was
[16:52] <asac> micahg: i hope the new description is cleaner now
[16:52] <asac> err ... new title that is
[16:52] <gnomefreak> asac: he says his bug is not a hinting problem
[16:53] <Jazzva> asac: i don't mind... do you want me to add it as 000_allow_empty_short_option, and then increment the rest of the patches, or just to leave them as they are? (not sure about the style)
[16:53] <micahg> well, a little, but I still don't know what font-hinting is, but maybe that's just me
[16:53] <gnomefreak> micahg: me neither
[16:55] <micahg> gnomefreak: I can see the font fine in Firefox 3.0
[16:55] <micahg> the reporter said the font comes with Ubuntu
[16:56] <asac> micahg: i didnt know that until i had to look into it. it makes fonts smoother on low dpi medias
[16:56] <asac> (like screens)
[16:56] <asac> micahg: ffox 3.0 honoured gnome settings but not fontconfig ... now its flipped
[16:56] <asac> but its clearly a bug. i checked upstream code already and they want it to work properly as it seems
[16:56] <micahg> ah, well than, this isn't a dupe as Chancery is a script font and it's rendering as block
[16:56]  * gnomefreak doesnt use the "problem" font nor do i know wher eit is. i like default fonts
[16:57] <asac> micahg: if its about a specific font its a font problem
[16:57] <asac> not a firefox issue
[16:57] <micahg> why wouldn't the font render in ff3.5?
[16:57] <asac> not render at all?
[16:57] <mac_v> hi... does anyone know why icons in firefox dont change with icon themes? [only the folder changes] the rest of the icons are always the gnome icons, why is that , is it a known bug?
[16:58] <gnomefreak> ?
[16:58] <gnomefreak> what icons
[16:58] <asac> micahg: there are icons that are not stock icons. the rest will change. maybe not on the fly
[16:58] <asac> try restarting ffox properly
[16:58] <asac> (to be sure relogin)
[16:58] <mac_v> gnomefreak: > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/firefox.png note the history , bookmarks
[16:58] <asac> mac_v: maybe you use a firefox theme too?
[16:58] <gnomefreak> mac_v: see asacs comment to micahg i think it was you he ment
[16:59] <asac> that could block that as well
[16:59] <mac_v> asac: this has been a problem for a long time... not now actually , only now i'm trying to figure it out
[16:59] <asac> yes it was to mac_v
[16:59] <micahg> asac: it renders as block like it couldn't find the font
[16:59] <asac> mac_v: are you using a firefox theme?
[16:59] <mac_v> yes..
[16:59] <mac_v> oh!
[16:59] <asac> thats the problem most likely. switch to default
[16:59] <gnomefreak> micahg: i can leave the font in your hands.. please ;) ive been walking out the door for over an hour now
[17:00]  * mac_v checks
[17:00] <asac> mac_v: in tools -> addons -> themes
[17:00]  * gnomefreak not sure what to tell the reporter atm
[17:00] <mac_v> asac: i'm using a custom theme... let me check with default
[17:00] <asac> micahg: for me the screenshot looks ok
[17:01] <gnomefreak> incoming i think
[17:01]  * gnomefreak is outgoing i hope
[17:01] <gnomefreak> asac: bjsnider is bug 411707
[17:01] <bjsnider> i don't see the connection to 379761
[17:02] <gnomefreak> bjsnider: we think we decided it wasnt the same. i unmarkled it
[17:02] <bjsnider> the font is skipped entirely, not unhinted
[17:02] <gnomefreak> unmarked it
[17:02] <bjsnider> ok
[17:02] <micahg> asac: of course the screenshot will look fine :)
[17:02] <gnomefreak> so it doesnt show up at all?
[17:02] <gnomefreak> bjsnider: that was for you
[17:03] <bjsnider> the guy i was talking to in here a couple of days ago said there were other discrepancies with some fonts, but i can't see them
[17:03] <micahg> bjsnider: I think I was referring to the bug asac found
[17:04] <bjsnider> probably
[17:04] <bjsnider> antialiasing would account for it
[17:06] <gnomefreak> anyone need be before i leave for the day? im going to smoke but ill read when i get back
[17:06] <mac_v> asac: nope... even with default it is the same , the icons for the bookmarks which *dont* have favicons , always use the gnome icons , and the rest in the screenshot i showed above are still the same
[17:12] <gnomefreak> using the mac_linux1 theme atleast i think thats the name of it uses gnome icons for non favicons
[17:12] <gnomefreak> Mac4Lin_v1.0 is the theme im using atm
[17:13] <asac> mac_v: there might be some that have no equivalent that is common in gtk
[17:13] <asac> mac_v: so firefox doesnt use them
[17:13] <mac_v> asac: gnomefreak: so you notice it too? i have tried it with several the themes , made sure the gnome equivalent names are used , but still it only uses the gnome icons
[17:14] <asac> mac_v: it doesnt use the gnome icons. it uses its own copies
[17:14] <asac> i tried to explain that thats because if there are theme icons that are not common enough, firefox cannot use tham
[17:14] <gnomefreak> mac_v: for my bookmark dirs. they are gnome folder (my themes) and the unorginized has like a doc with a round thing in it
[17:14] <asac> mac_v: btw. the GNOME icons are the current themed icons
[17:15] <asac> i think you mean "the gnome default icons"
[17:15] <mac_v> yeah
[17:15] <asac> mac_v: that just means that the icons are not themed in firefox
[17:15] <asac> firefox can only use gtk stock icons to be exact
[17:15] <asac> everything on top wouldnt work everywhere
[17:16] <asac> at least thats what i always thought ... and it matches this
[17:16] <mac_v> asac: so firefox uses only the gnome fallback icons! how weird , but the folders use the icon for the theme! that is inconsistent
[17:16] <asac> mac_v: no it doesnt use the gnome fallback icons. they most likely just used the _same_ icons that gnome used
[17:16] <asac> its a copy
[17:16] <asac> they dont use themable icons at all
[17:16] <asac> for those
[17:17] <asac> that are not in gtk-stock
[17:17] <mac_v> asac: ah... can i file a wishlist bug?
[17:17] <asac> mac_v: file it against gtk to add that icon as a stock icon.
[17:17] <asac> _only_ gtk stock icons are ok for firefox as otherwise it might break on some systems
[17:18] <asac> makes sense?
[17:18] <mac_v> asac: oh! ok... then no use... a new gtk icon , wil take *forever* ,
[17:19] <mac_v> they wont easily accept adding a new naming for firefox
[17:19] <asac> mac_v: why a new naming?
[17:19] <gnomefreak> damnit i cant get my buttons on the right side of the bar :(
[17:20] <asac> i think i missed the important point ;)
[17:20] <asac> if its a new icon like "bookmark-important" ... then thats not just a new name
[17:20] <mac_v> then how do you propose gtk to add a stock icon? gnome labels will just say it is a firefox bug , they have the icon already but firefox is not using it
[17:20] <asac> mac_v: which icon is it exactly?
[17:20] <asac> whats the name of it?
[17:22] <gnomefreak> how do i move the close/min/max buttons to the right of the window boarder again :( changing theme and boarder settings dont help
[17:22] <mac_v> asac: actually there is 1 icon for html , and several symlinks > main icon > /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/mimetypes/text-html.svg , i'm not sure which symlink is hardcoded in firefox
[17:23] <mac_v> but other icons also dont change , like for history , bookmarks , recent *
[17:23] <asac> yeah. feels like the gtk icon set should be extended
[17:23] <asac> figuring out what the requirements for that are would be interesting
[17:23] <gnomefreak> ok ill screw with boarders tomorrow. gone
[17:24] <mac_v> asac: i'll check firefox source... where am i to look for this exactly?
[17:28] <asac> mac_v: not sure what you want to look for
[17:28] <asac> there is no gtk stock icon -> there is no gtk icon that firefox can use without depending on a gnome version or something
[17:28] <mac_v> asac: where are the icon labels assigned? which file? that would give a hint about the problem
[17:29] <asac> the source is huge. to have to find the implementation of the dialog you look at and then check how it refers to the icon
[17:30] <mac_v> asac: oh ok... i'll try and figure it out... if i find something i'll report back
[17:30] <asac> mac_v: its obvious to me without looking that they use their own copy of the icon
[17:31] <mac_v> you mean firefox uses its own icons?
[17:31] <asac> if you know the name of the icon it uses you can search the source for that
[17:31] <Jazzva> asac: pushed to lp:~jazzva/nspluginwrapper/1.3.0
[17:31] <asac> mac_v: yes. thats what i am saying all the time
[17:31] <asac> mac_v: it uses its own copy for things that are not gtk stock icons
[17:31] <asac> but thats a feature
[17:32] <Jazzva> asac: another question related to submission of patches to a list. should I prepare three diffs, that are unrelated from one another? e.g. to always do diff related to the clean source tree
[17:32] <mac_v> asac: i dont believe so... sorry, why would firefox create replica of something which already exists? and why allow only the folders to change?
[17:33] <asac> mac_v: folders are gtk stock icon
[17:33] <asac> i cannot repeat the same thing i said multiple time
[17:33] <asac> s
[17:33] <mac_v> ok
[17:33] <asac> the html thing is gnome only
[17:33] <asac> thats the difference
[17:33] <mac_v> oh... :(
[17:33] <asac> so folders can be themed without risking brekage for cross-platform use of firefox
[17:34] <asac> but html not
[17:34] <asac> solution is to get html icon into gtk
[17:34] <mac_v> asac: ah... finaly you drove it through my thick head..
[17:34] <asac> hehe
[17:34] <asac> good :)
[17:34] <mac_v> ;p
[17:34] <asac> its ok ;)
[17:34] <asac> np
[17:35] <mac_v> i'll try to persuade some gnome devs to add gtk icon :)
[17:37] <asac> mac_v: you need to persuage gtk devs to add gnome icons ;)
[17:37] <mac_v> asac: hehe... ok
[17:43] <asac> mac_v: you can search the full source for moz-icon: to see what stock icons they make use of
[17:43] <asac> mac_v: i would think its just gtk icons. but you could confirm that
[17:43] <mac_v> asac: ah... thanx for narrowing it down... :)
[17:44] <asac> e.g. grep -r "moz-icon:" mozilla/
[17:44] <asac> most would be in toolkit/.../gnomestripe and browser/.../gnomestripe
[17:44] <asac> (most uses that is)
[17:45] <asac> mac_v: e.g. http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.9.1/source/toolkit/themes/gnomestripe/global/button.css#194
[17:46] <asac> <xul:image src="moz-icon://goat?size=16" class="typeIcon"
[17:46] <asac> not sure what "goat" is
[17:46] <asac> the rest are all stock/gtk-...
[17:46] <asac> syntax of moz-icon is: moz-icon://[<file-uri> | <file-with-extension> | <stock-image>]? ['?'[<parameter-value-pairs>]]
[17:46] <mac_v> ah.... nice...
[17:47] <asac> /browser/themes/gnomestripe/
[17:47] <asac> and toolkit/themes/gnomestripe
[17:47] <asac> m,asac thats where you can find all this
[17:47] <asac> and ye. only gtk- stock icons used
[17:48] <mac_v>  yeah i notice that...
[17:53] <mac_v> asac: /browser/themes/gnomestripe/ has the complete list... awesome... thanx so much...! :)
[17:53] <asac> mac_v: its not complete
[17:53] <asac> mac_v: toolkit/themes/gnomestripe is the other half
[17:54] <mac_v> well the the subsequent child folders too
[17:54] <asac> mac_v: but basically its what i said. its only gtk- stock icons
[17:54] <asac> mac_v: sure.
[17:54] <mac_v> asac: yeah... :)
[17:54] <asac> we should really try to get more icons into gtk. but even then mozilla probably dont want that until that gtk version has aged (they dont want to rely on the latest gtk)
[17:55] <Jazzva> asac: when you have the time... should i submit three patches, which are all against clean source tree, or to submit first patch which is against clean source tree, second, which is agains source with first patch applied, etc?
[17:55] <Jazzva> *against
[17:56] <asac> Jazzva: i think it should be a patchset. e.g. stacked patches
[17:56] <asac> first is the infrastructure required: e.g. allow no short option
[17:56] <asac> second and third are based on that
[17:56] <mac_v> asac: how does firefox access these icons ? are they locally installed or does it query on connection and cache them?
[17:57] <asac> mac_v: it accesses them through gtk ...
[17:57] <Jazzva> asac: ok... so second and third are diffed against source tree with first patch? anyway, i guess upstream will know what to do :)
[17:57] <mac_v> oh ...
[17:57] <asac> mac_v: meaning. its unlikely to be a bug in the moz-icon code itself
[17:58] <asac> its really just that the icon that isnt themed has no stock icon in gtk or the stock icon was only introduced in recent gtk versions (e.g. still too young to use)
[17:58] <mac_v> yeah i get it... :)
[17:58] <asac> Jazzva: i think you usually submit them on top of each other ... but yeah. shouldnt be a big deal
[17:58] <Jazzva> ok, thanks
[17:58] <asac> mac_v: making a list of icons that are candidates for gtk inclusion would be a first step
[17:59] <asac> then we need to get that in and wait for a year or so ;)
[17:59] <mac_v> hehe... By that time Chrome would have arrived ;p
[18:00] <asac> mac_v: which probably faces the same problems i would think
[18:00] <mac_v> asac: BTW why is firefox , becomming so slow to start..? can we pre-load firefox during startup like how windows does IE?
[18:01] <asac> mac_v: for me it starts in 2 or three seconds for the first run
[18:01] <asac> well. sometimes 5 or 6
[18:01] <mconnor> asac: it'd still be good to get GTK to support a wider set of icons anyway.  someday we'll be able to use them! ;)
[18:01] <asac> lots of extensions can cause that
[18:01] <mac_v> for me 4-5 secs , but still why wait ;p
[18:01] <asac> mconnor: hi. exactly. thats what i am saying ;)
[18:02] <asac> gtk needs more stock icons
[18:02] <mac_v> several windows user think IE is faster to load , but thye dont realize windows is cheating by pre-loading it ;p
[18:04] <asac> mconnor: is anyone on your side actively trying to get new icons to gtk or is that something you expect us to push for?
[18:05] <asac> s/expect/would like to see/
[18:06] <asac> mac_v: i dont think that pre-loading on linux is the answer. but we will. see. lets first get our boot process down to <10 seconds :)
[18:07] <mac_v> asac: are you also involved in the boot time?
[18:08] <asac> not directly. no.
[18:08] <asac> just cheering for the progress we are making ;)
[18:08] <mac_v> ah... BTW karmic is so much more faster than jaunty ... totally loving it
[18:09] <mac_v> nearly cut down my boot by 30secs!
[18:10] <mac_v> well maybe i had cruft too, which slowed my jaunty ... but still i think this is great now ;p
[18:10] <asac> indeed
[18:10] <asac> i dont boot so often, but when i do i am more happy
[18:10] <asac> i think our new boot experience is supposed to land today ;)
[18:10] <asac> at least the first stab at it
[18:10] <asac> no more console stuff etc.
[18:11] <asac> no mode switching etc.
[18:11] <mac_v> boot experience as in the xsplash theme?
[18:11] <asac> i think xsplash is involved. yes.
[18:11] <mconnor> asac: I don't think it's something we're actively pursuing, but anything's possible :)
[18:12] <asac> mconnor: ok. just wasnt sure if you already tried and got turned down by gtk or something. thanks
[18:12] <asac> mac_v: so if you come up with a list of icons used that are not in gtk, but that seem to have a valid gnome replacement that would be a good list to poke at
[18:12] <mac_v> asac: ah.. sure...
[18:13] <mac_v> where do i report it ? bugzilla or somewhere else?
[18:13] <asac> mac_v: just prepare it and then we can check what to do next
[18:13] <mac_v> ok :)
[18:13] <mac_v> asac: off topic, do you know about rf kill switch and where the kernel settings have been shifted to?
[18:13] <mconnor> asac: life's too short to argue with GTK maintainers myself ;)

[18:14] <mac_v> lol
[18:15] <mac_v> no-one seems to know , where those are set as of now... so just took a shot ;p
[18:15] <crimsun> what are set?
[18:15] <asac> mconnor: hehe yeah. didnt expect that you did it yourself. rather ventnor or someone else down in the food chain ;)
[18:15] <asac> crimsun: rf kill
[18:15] <asac> mac_v: i lost track of that myself. hal is gone at least
[18:15] <crimsun> (wireless-tools now ships the rkfill executable from sipsolutions)
[18:16] <asac> mac_v: check with awe on ubuntu-desktop. he knows more about rfkill than i ever want to know to be honest
[18:16] <mac_v> ah... ok...
[18:16] <asac> mac_v: or try crimsun ;) ... who seems to know something too
[18:17] <mconnor> asac: food chain sounds so pejorative ;)
[18:17] <crimsun> tony (awe) is likely to know more, since that's his focus this cycle
[18:17] <asac> sorry. lizard throat ;)
[18:17] <mac_v> crimsun: where to the setting ? to assign the boot state?
[18:17] <mconnor> lol
[18:17] <mac_v> where tot set the setting*
[18:17] <mac_v> to*
[18:17] <crimsun> mac_v: right, please ask awe
[18:17] <mac_v> oh... ok thanx. :)
[18:18] <asac> mac_v: he is on #ubuntu-desktop
[18:18] <mac_v> i think he is away now... will catch him the some time ;p
[18:19] <asac> he is busy saving kubuntu alpha4 not having network at all ;)
[18:19] <asac> so if it can wait for a day ask after the alpha ;)
[18:20] <mac_v> literally no one seems to be aware of the settings ! and i'm been asking this for nearly a month! seems like magic ;p
[18:20] <mac_v> i dont mind waiting 1 day :)
[18:21] <mac_v> or even more... :) alteast i know someone who has info :)
[18:23] <crimsun> the boot state should be done in the driver
[18:23] <asac> mac_v: yeah. just try to ping him in public. personally i dont answer to pmsgs unless there is a very good reason ;)
[18:23] <mac_v> i  know... i dont PM either :)
[18:23] <asac> great
[18:23] <asac> then you are one of the "good ones" ;)
[18:24] <mac_v> :)
[18:25] <mac_v> crimsun: it just keeps varying with every kernel, some kernels remember the previous session state , some need to be manually started , some auto start always!
[18:26] <mac_v> it was easier when everything was an option in /etc/modprobe.d
[18:26] <crimsun> the wireless stack moves very quickly
[18:26] <mac_v> hmm...
[18:27] <mac_v> asac: oh... i forgot to ask... what about the info gathered by multisearch? will the statistics/results be published
[18:27] <mac_v> asac: is gonna kill me !
[18:27] <mac_v> ;p
[18:27] <Jazzva> asac: I would just like to attribute the patches to the right persons. Are you sure debian_make_symlinks and systemonly_update are from us? Rob Andrews is signed in those two patches. If he's not the right person, do you know who is?
[18:28] <asac> mac_v: i dont know ... i will try to get something to publish. some stakeholders are not there this week (vacation) though so probably nothing before next week
[18:28] <asac> mac_v: i will do a blog post though hopefully tomorrow wrapping up with this
[18:28] <mac_v> asac: sure , no hurry , but just hope they are published sometime :)
[18:30] <asac> mac_v: we will definitly publish out findings and what we derived from them. personally i dont think that raw numbers are actually something anyone would have a valid interest in seeing though.
[18:31] <asac> i will know more after the wrap-up calls we will do next week
[18:31] <mac_v> nah, not the raw numbers , but just what you guys deduced for this experiment , would be interesting to know
[18:32] <mac_v> asac: i just have my own conspiracy theory > you guys are trying to make a new search engine , ;p
[18:32] <mac_v> checking how users use google and findin the flaws :)
[18:32] <asac> heh. thats a good idea ;)
[18:33]  * asac notes it down :)
[18:58] <asac> lol
[18:58] <asac> "tomorrow searching a ''praktikum'',going to sturbucks (maybe) and searching a book for my way to Hamburg!"
[18:59] <fta> ?
[18:59] <asac> i guess its not going to be successful if you cannot even type the employers name ;)
[19:00] <asac> fta: "praktikum = internship"
[19:00] <asac> but ok its twitter ;)
[19:06] <Jazzva> asac: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29796962/ "Twitter gets you fired in 140 characters or less" :)
[19:07] <Jazzva> asac: actually, this one is with screenshots http://thebrandbuilder.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/how-to-lose-your-job-in-140-characters-or-less/
[21:21] <jcastro> hi fta, what's new!
[21:22] <fta> jcastro, hi
[21:22] <fta> jcastro, about what? :)
[21:22] <jcastro> I've been gone 2.5 weeks, so I am assuming you've broken launchpad like 10 times or something. :p
[21:23] <jcastro> but hey I noticed this: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/89a3652cbcd5558
[21:23] <fta> well, i've made the builders boil a few times ;)
[21:23] <jcastro> I was wondering if in the future maybe just doing weekly builds of the stuff they make the branded chrome from would make sense
[21:24] <fta> jcastro, at UDS, Mark wanted to know how popular dailies could be, http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/chromium-popcon-5.png
[21:24] <jcastro> holy shit
[21:25] <jcastro> how can people still be installing the wine thing
[21:26] <fta> jcastro, no idea. someone from google told me popcon figures are way off, probably 1/10, so there are [9000..90000] users
[21:28] <fta> jcastro, about the tags, they are more like branches. and there's no clear way to know which branch to follow, there's something like one branch per week
[21:29] <jcastro> yeah I tried to figure it out last week
[21:37] <fta> i wonder when it will be acceptable in universe
[21:45] <fta> asac, what are we supposed do with the licenses in the (stripped) chromium tarball when it's about webkit, or some 3rd party?
[21:45] <jcastro> fta, is that even realistic?
[21:45] <jcastro> also, does chromium even do releases?
[21:46] <fta> jcastro, do you mean it will never be in the archive?
[21:47] <asac_> fta: what do you mean?
[21:47] <jcastro> fta, I'm just saying, someone is going to have to check all the files, etc.
[21:47] <asac_> fta: you mean the license in the top level dir?
[21:47] <asac_> fta: or how to maintain a license diff?
[21:48] <fta> asac_, licensecheck
[21:49] <fta> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/chromium-license-check.txt
[21:49] <fta> i wrote a helper a while ago
[21:49] <fta> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/chromium-license-check-full.txt
[21:50] <asac_> fta: we could add info about what the license of that subdir really is and check that on our own
[21:50] <asac_> i think when we give that list to archive admins that helps a lot
[21:51] <fta> i just post-process licensecheck -r
[21:51] <asac_> ./third_party/WebKit/WebCore/platform/gtk/ [ *No copyright* LGPL (v2 or later) ]:
[21:51] <asac_> fta: yes. you post-process it. we could maintain a list of "manual licenses" that we check
[21:51] <fta> i do
[21:52] <asac_> fta: what i mean is that we maintain a list of subtrees for which we know the license because its in a LICENSE file further on top
[21:52] <asac_> or is that what you are really doing?
[21:52] <fta> asac_, i do just that
[21:52] <fta> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/chromium-browser.head/annotate/head%3A/debian/licensecheck.pl
[21:53] <maco> i just installed updates and was told to restart my browser.  did so. ive been using shiretoko so when it asked if i want to keep my 3.5 beta profile i said yes. for some reason, it is giving me a default empty profile with all my settings gone. how do i get my stuff back?
[21:53] <asac_> so [ *No copyright* LGPL (v2 or later) ]:
[21:53] <asac_> is basically that?
[21:53] <asac_> fta?
[21:53] <maco> there's ~/.mozilla/firefox ~/.mozilla/firefox-3.5 and ~/.mozilla/firefox-3.0-replaced ..is there something i can do with them?
[21:54] <asac_> maco: thats odd. ~/.mozilla/firefox ~/.mozilla/firefox-3.5  together should retrigger it
[21:54] <asac_> maco: maybe you said "decide later" ?
[21:54] <fta> asac_, i have $manually_identified that could be used to remember a manual check, per file, or per tree/dir
[21:54] <maco> no i said keep my 3.5 profile
[21:54] <asac_> maco: if you start again what happens?
[21:54] <asac_> maco: ensure that there is really no firefox running before that
[21:55] <maco> if i try again it asks again with the same result
[21:55] <maco> i thought maybe it was using the wrong profile but profile manager now only shows 1 profile when i had two. since that required running from the cli i could see the errors it was spitting though
[21:56] <maco> Found Beta Participation ...mv: cannot move `/home/maco/.mozilla/firefox' to `/home/maco/.mozilla/firefox.3.0-replaced/firefox': Directory not empty
[21:56] <maco> mv: cannot move `/home/maco/.mozilla/firefox-3.5' to `/home/maco/.mozilla/firefox/firefox-3.5': Directory not empty
[21:56] <maco>  keep beta profile.
[21:56] <maco>  ... will check again next time.
[21:59] <maco> oh! ~/.mozilla/firefox.3.0-replaced/ appears to have all my stuff in it.  where should i put it to make it default?
[22:11] <Jazzva> maco: i think current ff/abrowser 3.5 uses ~/.mozilla/firefox
[22:11] <Jazzva> maco: at least, that's the case here.
[22:11] <Jazzva> maco: so try something like
[22:11] <Jazzva> mv ~/.mozilla/firefox ~/.mozilla/firefox-backup
[22:12] <Jazzva> mv ~/.mozilla/firefox.3.0-replaced ~/.mozilla/firefox
[22:12] <Jazzva> and see if that works for you.
[22:12] <maco> i tried that
[22:12] <maco> and it still asked me what to do
[22:13] <maco> and this time i hit import because i figured keep 3.5 settings would use ~/.mozilla/firefox-3.5 which is wrong
[22:13] <maco> but its wrong again :(
[22:13] <maco> all my extensions are gone
[22:14] <Jazzva> maco: another thought - try to copy just your profile dir (e.g. 12345.default) from firefox.3.0-replaced to firefox, and select "keep my current settings" when/if it asks you.
[22:14] <Jazzva> maco: yeah... that's how i lost my settings/extensions/bookmarks/passwords last night :). accidentally deleted the folder
[22:15] <Jazzva> on the other note, why did it ask if I want to import from 3.0? I was using 3.5 at the time already.
[22:15] <maco> OH
[22:16] <maco> ok so apparently "its wrong again" is because i had two profiles and it was using the wrong one
[22:17] <maco> so i needed to mv -replaced over firefox then choose import instead of keep-3.5 BUT i had to do it while running with -profilemanager
[22:38] <jdstrand> asac_: I've noticed that firefox-3.5 fonts are blurry as opposed to firefox-3.0 (karmic). it is both in the rendered page and the gtk toolbar fonts. I am using bitstream in gnome and bitstream in firefox. have you seen this?
[22:40] <jdstrand> well, all gtk widgets in ff35
[22:44] <fta> bug 379761
[22:44] <jdstrand> thanks fta
[22:47] <asac_> jdstrand: its all fontconfig
[22:47] <asac_> atm
[22:47] <asac_> its a bug
[22:47] <asac_> ffox 3.0 only honoured gnome, but not fontconfig properly
[22:48] <fta> mozilla 508427
[22:50] <asac_> fta: does chrome stop javascripts for tabs
[22:51] <fta> there are in different processes
[22:51] <fta> they
[22:51] <asac_> but are they stopped?
[22:51] <asac_> otherwise they will probably consume battery too ;)
[22:51] <asac_> just curious
[22:51] <asac_> i think its not really possible as lots of webapps are like apps
[22:51] <asac_> and if you stop them they might have the expected experience
[22:52] <fta> i don't think so
[22:52] <fta> but my problem is not battery, it's that ff sucks 20% cpu minimum, even when idle
[22:52] <fta> (on a dual core 2 cpu)
[22:53] <bdrung> asac_: i have found another bug in -devscripts (Vcs-Bzr-Browser -> Vcs-Browser). i have update the lintian branch
[22:54] <asac_> bdrung: where is that specified?
[22:54] <asac_> i mean that its not Vcs-Bzr
[22:55] <bdrung> asac: the qa page does not show the link, http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html
[22:56] <fta>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[22:56] <fta> 21768 fta       20   0  673m 287m  25m R   22 14.3 191:36.19 firefox-3.6
[22:58] <fta> asac, by cumulative time: Xorg 270h, firefox 191h, rhythmbox 91h, pulseaudio 50h, gnome-panel 38h, metacity 36h, gwibber 28h, xchat 20h, evolution 19h
[22:59] <fta> evolution is a pig, but firefox is 10 times worse :P
[23:02] <BUGabundo> ola ola
[23:07] <fta> gettimeofday() every 0.05 ms, that's crazy
[23:37] <asac_> bdrung: ok convinced ;)
[23:39] <bdrung> asac: i am always right :p
[23:41] <asac_> firefox just using 4times pulseaudi omakes me feel better ;)
[23:47] <fta> asac_, not funny
[23:47] <fta> this is bad as a whole
[23:50] <fta> gnome-settings-daemon just crashed.. need to restart.. grr