[00:16] <aboSamoor> BUGabundo, there ?
[00:16] <BUGabundo> yep
[00:17] <aboSamoor> BUGabundo, I think you know about the multisearch addon bug, I reported that one, and I want to ask you about your experience regarding such issues
[00:18] <BUGabundo> LOLOL
[00:18] <BUGabundo> I said my mind enoutgh about it
[00:18] <BUGabundo> I disabled it
[00:18] <aboSamoor> this is my first time to have such hot bug, and I was surprised how much the people are aggressive
[00:18] <BUGabundo> and recommend everyone to do it too
[00:18] <aboSamoor> is this normal in bug reports, I mean the language and and impatience ?
[00:18] <BUGabundo> not aggressive
[00:18] <BUGabundo> *apprensive*
[00:18] <BUGabundo> no
[00:18] <BUGabundo> not many bugs get that big
[00:19] <BUGabundo> only now of 5 in the last 2 cycles
[00:19] <BUGabundo> one for UM
[00:19] <BUGabundo> on for notifyOSD
[00:19] <BUGabundo> one for intel drivers
[00:20] <crimsun> people tend to feel impatient if they feel things are not precisely as they want them in "their" distro
[00:22] <aboSamoor> BUGabundo, what is that 5 ?
[00:22] <BUGabundo> this one
[00:22] <BUGabundo> lolol
[00:24] <aboSamoor> BUGabundo, despite the LOLs, i feel stupid not understanding what is that 5 in 2 !
[00:24] <BUGabundo> sorry??
[00:29] <bjsnider> multisearch addon bug?
[00:32] <aboSamoor> bjsnider, BUG 402767
[00:33] <JanC> aboSamoor: he means he knows of 5 such "hot" bugs during the last 2 Ubuntu versions
[00:33] <BUGabundo> correct
[00:33] <BUGabundo> sorry was WFK
[00:36] <aboSamoor> JanC, I was confused because he mentioned 3 + 1 implicitly
[00:36] <JanC> I guess the 5th was U1
[00:36] <JanC> maybe
[00:37] <aboSamoor> yeah, I just discovered th U1 by reddit
[00:37] <BUGabundo> eeheheh
[00:37] <BUGabundo> u1?
[00:37] <BUGabundo> baahhh
[00:38] <BUGabundo> that's not a byg
[00:38] <BUGabundo> that's a FAIL
[00:38] <BUGabundo> LOL
[00:38] <BUGabundo> almost forgot that one
[00:38] <bjsnider> U1?
[00:38] <BUGabundo> ok we can fit that on the list
[00:38] <BUGabundo> what is this?
[00:38] <BUGabundo> bjsnider question day?
[00:38] <BUGabundo> LOLOL
[00:38] <BUGabundo> bjsnider: U1= UbuntuOne.com
[00:39] <bjsnider> ok
[00:39] <aboSamoor> so If linux subreddit is a thermometer, then there is another hot bug that is really annoying more than most of the previous 5 hot bugs
[00:39] <aboSamoor> I mean the firefox performance
[00:40] <aboSamoor> on my laptop firefox takes about 30 seconds to open
[00:41] <BUGabundo> mine is very fast
[00:41] <BUGabundo> just tends to break with many stuff
[00:41] <JanC> hm, depends on # of addons and such too
[00:41] <aboSamoor> I ran ff-3.6 but was not that better
[00:41] <BUGabundo> ADVERT: I run 3.6 alpha from daily ppa
[00:41] <BUGabundo> JanC: you don't have enough fingers to count how many I have :)
[00:42] <aboSamoor> I have 6 addons and all of them are popular addons which means it is hard to find serious bugs in them
[00:43] <aboSamoor> 6 without multisearch :P
[00:46] <BUGabundo> pfff
[00:46] <JanC> BUGabundo: how do you know I'm not an alien with 100 tentacle-fingers?
[00:46] <BUGabundo> let me list mine
[00:46] <BUGabundo> JanC: humm still I would have more :)
[00:46] <BUGabundo> kidding
[00:47] <BUGabundo> this is 3.6. on 3.0 and 3.5 I had more working http://paste.ubuntu.com/251665/
[00:49] <aboSamoor> BUGabundo, this is like committing suicide
[00:49] <BUGabundo> naaa
[00:49] <BUGabundo> its adding extra funcionality and bugs
[00:52] <aboSamoor> according to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501605 ff access IE history on startup and this makes it slow, i wonder if my ff on ubuntu is earching for IE for 30 seconds then it realizes that I am waiting so it opens the tabs !
[01:01] <BUGabundo> time to hit the sack
[01:32] <bjsnider> you're going to punch alexander sack?
[02:19] <ubuntu> i installed windows and now i cant restore gryb can anyone help me i am on the live cd now
[02:23] <billybigrigger> !grub2
[02:23] <billybigrigger> ubuntu its there
[02:23] <billybigrigger> Recovering Grub from a LiveCD
[02:24] <billybigrigger> or something :P
[02:24] <ubuntu> billybigrigger: the problem installed windows and now my partion is gone
[02:25] <ubuntu> how do i restore it i onliy have a cd of ubuntu 7.04
[02:25] <ubuntu> live cd
[02:25] <billybigrigger> your partition is gone?
[02:25] <billybigrigger> so your overwrote ubuntu?
[02:26] <billybigrigger> with window
[02:26] <billybigrigger> s
[02:26] <ubuntu> billybigrigger: only the boot loader
[02:26] <billybigrigger> read the wiki then
[02:29] <ubuntu> but grub 2 and one does differ
[02:30] <ubuntu> billybigrigger: the problem is i have a 7.04 liv cd and in adept there is no grub 2
[02:30] <billybigrigger> well if your running karmic you should be running grub 2
[02:30] <billybigrigger> grub legacy isn't supported anymore
[02:31] <ubuntu> billybigrigger: so how do i get my system up and running
[02:32] <billybigrigger> how about download a current livecd?
[02:32] <ubuntu> billybigrigger: link me
[02:33] <ubuntu> please
[02:33] <billybigrigger> ?
[02:33] <ubuntu> livecd link
[02:33] <ubuntu> cauz i am on kubuntu 7.04 livecd
[02:33] <billybigrigger> pat yourself on the back
[02:34] <ubuntu> huh
[02:34] <billybigrigger> if you would have read that Grub 2 Recovery link i pointed you to
[02:34] <billybigrigger> you would know where to find the latest livecd
[02:34] <ubuntu> ok
[02:34] <billybigrigger> Recover Grub 2 via LiveCD
[02:34] <billybigrigger>     *
[02:34] <billybigrigger>       First, grab a copy of the latest Ubuntu LiveCD and boot it.
[02:34] <billybigrigger>     * Open a terminal and type
[02:34] <billybigrigger> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
[02:34] <billybigrigger> the link is on the first line
[02:35] <ubuntu> billybigrigger: so 9.04 uses grub2
[02:35] <billybigrigger> no
[02:35] <billybigrigger> 9.10
[02:35] <billybigrigger> what version of ubuntu do you have installed?
[02:36] <ubuntu> on that link i can only download 9.04live cd
[02:36] <ubuntu> i was on karamic
[02:36] <billybigrigger> yeah
[02:36] <billybigrigger> that is the latest released livecd
[02:36] <ubuntu> but is shows as 9.04
[02:36] <ubuntu> so i can download it
[02:37] <billybigrigger> yes
[02:37] <ubuntu> and it will work
[02:37] <ubuntu> ok i will try that
[02:37] <ubuntu> thanks alot
[02:37] <billybigrigger> you might have better luck asking in #grub for recovering grub legacy
[02:37] <billybigrigger> like i said its not supported anymore
[02:38] <ubuntu> hmm
[02:39] <virtuald> karmic cd's are here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-live/current/
[02:39] <billybigrigger> you don't need a karmic livecd to recover grub
[02:39] <billybigrigger> i suggested a stable release for the simple fact that he might run into more problems with karmic dailies
[02:40] <virtuald> ok
[02:40] <virtuald> but he's running karmic
[02:40] <billybigrigger> yeah
[02:41] <billybigrigger> but the dailies are hit and miss
[02:41] <billybigrigger> one day they work the other they don't
[02:41] <billybigrigger> doesn't matter what his OS he is running, he's only trying to recover grub
[02:44] <ubuntu> true
[02:44] <billybigrigger> have you tried google yet?
[02:44] <billybigrigger> recover grub via ubuntu livecd
[02:44] <ubuntu> isnt there anyway to compile grub2 on my livecd
[02:45] <billybigrigger> first hit on google
[02:45] <ubuntu> my bandwind is notat all good will take me ages to get the live cd downloaded
[02:45] <billybigrigger> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[02:45] <billybigrigger> get karmic back running
[02:45] <billybigrigger> then refer to the wiki page for upgrading from grub legacy to grub 2 via ....
[02:45] <billybigrigger> !grub2
[02:47] <ubuntu> billybigrigger: so is it possible to recover over normal grub
[02:48] <billybigrigger> ?
[02:48] <billybigrigger> i think your confusing yourself
[02:48] <billybigrigger> billybigrigger>	https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[02:48] <billybigrigger> read it, do it
[02:48] <ubuntu> i mean can i recover my grub with the currnt kubuntu 7.04
[02:48] <billybigrigger> tes
[02:48] <billybigrigger> yes
[02:48] <ubuntu> but i cant mount a partition
[02:48] <billybigrigger> why
[02:49] <ubuntu> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1,
[02:49] <ubuntu>        missing codepage or helper program, or other error
[02:49] <ubuntu>        In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
[02:49] <ubuntu>        dmesg | tail  or so
[02:49] <billybigrigger> !pastebin
[02:49] <ubuntu> sorry
[02:49] <billybigrigger> try reading the error
[02:50] <billybigrigger> what command are you trying to pass?
[02:50] <ubuntu> billybigrigger:   931.340000] EXT3-fs: sda2: couldn't mount because of unsupported optional fea                                  tures (240).
[02:50] <ubuntu> sudo mount /dev/sda1 realroot/
[02:51] <hggdh> you meant /realroot ?
[02:51] <billybigrigger> what is realroot?
[02:51] <ubuntu> reaot mount pointolr
[02:51] <hggdh> I guess -- and I stress the guess -- a mountpoint
[02:51] <ubuntu> yes
[02:51] <ubuntu> its a mountpoint
[02:52] <hggdh> and  does the realroot directory exist?
[02:52] <billybigrigger> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[02:52] <billybigrigger> nuff said
[02:55] <yoasif> mysql-server is currently broken?
[02:56] <billybigrigger> caused by moving 5.0 to 5.1?
[02:56] <billybigrigger> yoasif: haven't checked the lists, but that was the action a few days ago
[02:56] <billybigrigger> probably could expect breakage from it
[02:56] <yoasif> ouch
[03:32] <spO> do any of you know how to compile fglrx/ati drivers for a custom ubuntu kernel (after you install karmic package) ?
[03:37] <BluesKaj> spO, the default ati driver is still installed
[03:37] <BluesKaj> ?
[04:05] <luckyone> hello all
[04:06] <luckyone> was wondering if anyone could help point me at some good information about karmic unr, particularly for Acer Aspire One
[04:07] <luckyone> I need to figure out why my wireless quit working after the -3 kernel, because now I don't even have that as a boot option in grub...
[04:10] <EagleScreen> luckyone: which card model?
[04:14] <luckyone> Acer Aspire One KAV10 with Atheros AR5BXB63
[04:15] <EagleScreen> sorry i don't know Atheros cards
[04:15] <luckyone> no worries
[04:25] <IndyGunFreak> luckyone: is that how lspci identifies it?
[04:25] <luckyone> yeah, it is weird... the wireless card can see networks, it network-manager just can't connect to anything
[04:26] <luckyone> AR5001
[04:26] <IndyGunFreak> hmm
[04:26] <IndyGunFreak> luckyone: are you connecting to a network that requires a password?
[04:26] <IndyGunFreak> ie.. wep or wpa
[04:27] <luckyone> searching wpa2
[04:27] <luckyone> network manager won't even connect with a wired connection though
[04:27] <IndyGunFreak> oh.
[04:27] <IndyGunFreak> now thats odd
[04:27] <luckyone> this will make it tough to take updates...
[04:28] <hggdh> oh boy. whats your version of apparmor?
[04:29] <luckyone> how do I see version from cli?
[04:29] <hggdh> dpkg -l apparmor\*
[04:30] <luckyone> 2.3.1+1403
[04:30] <luckyone> ubuntu9
[04:30] <hggdh> OK. so it is *not* the issue we had last week
[04:30] <luckyone> yeah, this quit working after -3
[04:32] <bjsnider> i think there are some hardware issues because of the switch from hal to devicekit right now
[04:33] <luckyone> yeah, I need to figure out a workaround so I can take updates in the meantime
[04:34] <luckyone> probably just need to figure out how to get grub to let me load a previous kernel
[04:34] <IndyGunFreak> luckyone: i think you're right, cuz i've had some issues w/ my atheros device to(242x)
[04:35] <luckyone> did you find a way to fix it?
[04:35] <luckyone> also sucks because I can't automagically add something to launchpad
[04:36] <IndyGunFreak> luckyone: well, no id idn't.. oddly enough, i connected to my network
[04:36] <IndyGunFreak> but it would not let me online
[04:37] <luckyone> [drm:drm_wait_vblank] *ERROR* failed to acquire vblank counter, -22
[04:37] <luckyone> lots of those
[04:45] <nhasian> ! Gnome-disk-utility
[04:45] <nhasian> how can i start  Gnome-disk-utility ?
[04:53] <billybigrigger> palimpsest
[04:54] <billybigrigger> nhasian: run the command 'palimpsest'
[04:55] <nhasian> nice.  is that not in the system menu anywhere?
[04:55] <nhasian> I'll never remember the command to launch it.  i cant even pronounce it.
[04:57] <billybigrigger> dunno
[04:57] <billybigrigger> not in ubuntu at the moment
[04:57] <billybigrigger> haven't updated yet today either
[04:57] <billybigrigger> been awake since 6:30am, its 10pm now, i've been compiling linux from scratch all day :P
[04:58] <nhasian> nice
[04:58] <billybigrigger> and still don't have a usable system haha
[04:58] <nhasian> doh!
[04:58] <billybigrigger> building a linux system from scratch sucks! haha
[04:59] <billybigrigger> now i know why the developed package managers :P
[05:00] <nhasian> okay here's a question.  how can i tell if a package like gnome-disk-utility for example comes by default with ubuntu or if it was installed by the user afterwards?
[05:00] <billybigrigger> honestly, no idea
[05:00] <billybigrigger> i imagine you could look on packages.ubuntu.com and look at the package ubuntu-desktop?
[05:01] <nhasian> i checked synaptic package manager and looked at the package's properties.  it says Priority = Optional but i dont know if thats the best way to check
[05:02] <nhasian> yeah it says gparted is also optional but i know that it comes standard with ubuntu
[05:45] <oldude67> anyone know if they have any of the bugs worked out of pulseaudio yetA?
[05:48] <oldude67> im running the intel ICH5 onboard sound and with pulse audio running i have nothing but static coming out of my speakers even when im not listening to anything,so i uninstalled it.
[05:48] <oldude67> was just wondering if it was any better yet?
[05:53] <x1250> nhasian, I guess you can use $ aptitude why yourpackage, and try to build your conclusions from there.
[05:56] <x1250> also, you can check the dpkg logs and aptitude log in /var/log
[06:11] <DanaG> oh hey, any of you using the grub2 gfxboot thingy?
[06:12] <DanaG> It's not in official repos.
[06:12] <billybigrigger> gfxmenu?
[06:12] <billybigrigger> DanaG: http://grub.gibibit.com/
[06:12] <billybigrigger> ???
[06:12] <billybigrigger> is that what your talking about?
[06:13] <DanaG> yeah.
[06:13] <billybigrigger> did it make it to grub svn?
[06:14] <billybigrigger> i emailed colin bennet about that and he didn't know when it would be ready, that was a few weeks ago though
[06:14] <DanaG> I'm using the ppa from here.
[06:14] <DanaG> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7767489
[06:14] <DanaG> it's glitchy -- redraws constantly, and rather horridly slowly, at that.
[06:15] <billybigrigger> hmm
[06:15] <billybigrigger> well no, im not using it to answer your question :)
[06:15] <billybigrigger> honestly haven't been booted into ubuntu since frida
[06:16] <billybigrigger> friday
[06:16] <DanaG> I think I'll just switch back to no gfxmenu.
[06:16] <billybigrigger> been screwing around with linuxfromscratch haha
[06:16] <alteregoa> yeah its a bummer
[06:18] <DanaG> hmm, anyone know much about what xsplash is supposed to do?
[06:18] <DanaG> For me, it makes the login window rather unpleasant:
[06:18] <alteregoa> its suppoed to be confusing
[06:19] <DanaG> When xorg starts, I see this:
[06:19] <DanaG> *flicker*   (xsplash default-wallpaper)    (gdm with custom wallpaper)
[06:19] <alteregoa> like almost any X program on linux, no common standards and that makes it like kinder surprise
[06:19] <DanaG> And then once I log in, I see this:
[06:19] <DanaG> (gdm custom wallpaper)    (xsplash default-wallpaper)    (gdm custom wallpaper)        (my wallpaper).
[06:19] <DanaG> so it flicks back to default wallpaper multiple times.  Irritating.
[06:19] <DanaG> And really ugly.
[06:20]  * billybigrigger reminds all we're still in A3 :P
[06:20] <alteregoa> i still wait until those linux stuff maybe 2.8.X kernel, the config is written into a single xml file
[06:21] <alteregoa> instead of searching the whole crap over the entire disk
[06:22] <alteregoa> thats linux from scratch
[06:23]  * DanaG prefers to tweak from the bottom up, not from the top down.
[06:24]  * ikonia points to the topic
[06:24] <DanaG> hmm, though "linux from scratch" may describe pretty well what I'm doing with a Microblaze cpu on an fpga.
[06:24] <DanaG> er
[06:24] <DanaG> sorry, I swapped my words.
[06:24]  * DanaG prefers to tweak from the _top down_.
[06:24] <DanaG> =P    I said that entirely backwards last time.
[06:27] <alteregoa> are you doing some FFT calculations danag?
[06:27] <ikonia> gents - #ubuntu+1 is for 9.10 discussion please.
[06:28] <DanaG> well, the xsplash thing, at least, was on topic.
[06:28] <billybigrigger> and grub's gfxmenu
[06:28] <DanaG> What is it actually supposed to do, besides making invalid assumptions about wallpaper?
[06:28] <billybigrigger> :P
[06:29] <alteregoa> ok sorry i destroyed the Mohammic Karma of Ubuntu with my offtopic speech
[06:29] <ikonia> alteregoa: no need to be silly, it is a polite request
[06:36] <spO> do any of you know how to compile fglrx/ati drivers for a custom ubuntu kernel?  (ie,   ati doesn't support 2.6.31 , but it is supposed to support 2.6.30
[06:36] <DanaG> oh yeah, there's a PPA for that.
[06:36] <billybigrigger> spO: wait for a patch?
[06:36] <billybigrigger> there ya go :P
[06:37] <DanaG> "dinxter"
[06:37] <DanaG> https://launchpad.net/~dinxter/+archive/ppa
[06:42] <spO> thanks danag
[06:47] <spO> danag, how exactly do i download that after i add that to my sources.list and update apt-get ?
[06:48] <spO> brb, i am going to pick up a perscription
[06:51] <DanaG> oh yeah, actually, now there's a nifty toolL
[06:51] <DanaG> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ppa_name/path_under_that
[06:51] <DanaG> like ppa:dinxter
[07:44] <spO> danag, that package requires generic version of any kernel, right?
[07:44] <spO> for custom kernels , it is basically very difficult if not impossible to get ati /proprietary drivers installed?
[07:45] <Boohbah> spO: shouldn't be
[07:53] <spO> z02325.33321
[07:54] <spO> err, sorry
[08:11] <spO> i don't have  add-apt-repository
[08:22] <alteregoa> 128 rops and 300GB/s bandwidth
[09:09] <lufis> Just installed karmic alpha 3 and installed all the updates. Now grub won't boot any of the kernel entries. I get an error that goes something like: "true: no such valid parameter"
[09:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> lufis: And your Wi-Fi is also dodgy:?
[10:06] <voltagex> hi, the livecd is only detecting one of two hard drives
[10:07] <richardcavell> voltagex: there have been many updates to Karmic since your alpha 3 live CD
[10:07] <voltagex> crap, 700mb quota wasted then
[10:07] <voltagex> what's the easiest way to test karmic then?
[10:08] <richardcavell> voltagex: can you install from the live CD?
[10:08] <richardcavell> then download updates
[10:08] <voltagex> first drive is full
[10:08] <richardcavell> you'll need to download a few hundred megs of updates
[10:08] <voltagex> second drive had a spare partition
[10:09] <voltagex> should be /dev/sdc
[10:09] <richardcavell> voltagex: Just to state the obvious, have you looked in the Places menu for it?
[10:09] <voltagex> places? the K menu?
[10:10] <richardcavell> The menu that is second
[10:10] <richardcavell> Applications, Places, System
[10:10] <richardcavell> on your desktop
[10:10] <voltagex> dolphin only lists one drive
[10:10] <richardcavell> I'm just saying - is it in your Places menu?
[10:10] <voltagex> no.
[10:10] <voltagex> :)
[10:10] <richardcavell> I mean, I have another partition that is not mounted at boot but it's in the Places meu
[10:10] <richardcavell> menu
[10:11] <voltagex> nope, no dice
[10:11] <richardcavell> what filesystem is the partition?
[10:13] <voltagex> unformatted, but the entire drive is missing
[10:13] <voltagex> there's a 950GB NTFS partition, and a 50gb partition that was meant for this, but both are not showing
[10:16] <dupondje> Could somebody try to open https://security-shell.ws/showthread.php?t=15891&page=2 in firefox ?
[10:16] <richardcavell> dupondje: crash
[10:17] <richardcavell> voltagex: I dunno.  It's not terribly surprising, though
[10:17] <dupondje> seems like something buggy in firefox :p
[10:17] <richardcavell> dupondje: yep
[10:17] <richardcavell> dupondje: report it and say it's confirmed
[10:17] <richardcavell> (One of the reasons why I'm not happy about the move to 3.5)
[10:18] <richardcavell> dupondje: I'm reporting it
[10:18] <dupondje> k
[10:18] <dupondje> :)
[10:18] <richardcavell> dupondje: which FF are you using?
[10:18] <dupondje> 3.5
[10:19] <voltagex> richardcavell: is there a daily iso download?
[10:19] <richardcavell> voltagex: nope
[10:19] <richardcavell> voltagex: at least, not an official one
[10:20] <richardcavell> dupondje: crashes on 3.0.13 for me
[10:20] <dupondje> yea indeed, was just testing that also :P
[10:20] <richardcavell> dupondje: what's the exact version number you're using?  I'll report both
[10:20] <dupondje> ii  firefox-3.0                                3.0.13+nobinonly-0ubuntu3                  safe and easy web browser from Mozilla
[10:20] <dupondje> ii  firefox-3.0-branding                       3.0.13+nobinonly-0ubuntu3                  Package that ships the firefox branding
[10:20] <dupondje> ii  firefox-3.5                                3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2                   safe and easy web browser from Mozilla
[10:20] <richardcavell> okay
[10:25] <dupondje> bug # ? ;)
[10:26] <richardcavell> mate, my Net's slow
[10:26] <dupondje> get fiber !
[10:26] <dupondje> :)
[10:27] <richardcavell> yeah I know
[10:29] <richardcavell> dupondje: are you on 32 or 64-bit?
[10:30] <dupondje> 64
[10:31] <richardcavell> dupondje: me too
[10:31] <Ian_> it doesn't crash for me
[10:31] <dupondje> 32bit ?
[10:31] <Ian_> yes
[10:31] <richardcavell> have you applied all updates, dupondje ?
[10:32] <richardcavell> Ian_: what version of FF are you using?
[10:32] <dupondje> richardcavell: yep, all updates
[10:32] <Ian_> icorne@unicorne:~$ apt-cache policy firefox
[10:32] <Ian_> firefox: Installed: 3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2 Candidate: 3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2
[10:33] <richardcavell> okay almost done
[10:33] <richardcavell> seems like a Karmic bug
[10:33] <richardcavell> bug 412418
[10:33] <Ian_> karmic 64 bit then
[10:33] <Ian_> because i'm on karmic and don't have it :)
[10:34] <richardcavell> Ian_: yeah
[10:34] <richardcavell> Ian_: and dupondje : add stuff to my bug report if you like
[10:35] <richardcavell> I can't figure out how to get to the broken website feature since the menu item has been disabled, while still collecting debug info
[10:35] <dupondje> richardcavell: added firefox-3.5 to package list
[10:35] <richardcavell> yep
[10:38] <richardcavell> looks good
[10:47] <xcdfgkjhgcv> How dodgy is it to upgrade from GRUB to GRUB2?
[10:48] <richardcavell> xcdfgkjhgcv: not dodgy
[10:48] <richardcavell> works fine
[10:48] <xcdfgkjhgcv> richardcavell: What benefits would I get from switching?
[10:49] <richardcavell> xcdfgkjhgcv: if it ain't broke don't fix it
[10:49] <xcdfgkjhgcv> richardcavell: Unless you want to make it better.
[10:49] <xcdfgkjhgcv> richardcavell: Debian Etch wasn't broken for me.
[10:49] <Ian_> ext4 support?
[10:49] <richardcavell> GRUB2 is way more sophisticated
[10:49] <richardcavell> it supports my OS X too
[10:49] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I only have one OS.
[10:50] <xcdfgkjhgcv> And that's Ubuntu.
[11:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Karmic fixed the Wi-Fi problems I had with Jaunty. :D
[11:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Bittorrent was unusable. :(
[11:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> And Karmic will fix my Intel performance problems too I think. :)
[11:23] <Ian_> i hope it will
[11:23] <ikonia> that's good news
[11:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Ian_: Same. I want to do some 3D gaming on my Eee PC.
[11:23] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS I have no clean socks.
[11:24] <suit> I got such a borderline weird problem. Upon booting, all my sound channels are muted. So, I crank them up again. If I use VLC to watch something it *immediately* turns the sys-volume down again (NOT the internal VLC volume). If I then bother to turn every channel up again via alsamixer they automatically drop down to zero before a sound can be uttered. With Kaffeine, the same happens but if I turn the volume up again after having started to play a
[11:24] <Ian_> :)
[11:24] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: Probably stupid, buggy Pulseaudio.
[11:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I like Pulseaudio but I wish it didn't have so many problems.
[11:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I want a really polished, stable Pulseaudio by 10.04 LTS
[11:25] <dupondje> seems like the pulseaudio plugins of some apps are causing those things also
[11:25] <dupondje> so its not really only a pulseaudio problem itself :(
[11:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Linux has always been funny with my motherboard sound.
[11:28] <suit> Alright..hmm.. Does aptitude provide any upgrade logs? I update Karmic pretty regularly and the problem started pretty much overnight.
[11:28] <dupondje> grr this is annoying, how can u add the things apport generates to a EXISTING bug ?
[11:28] <dupondje> :s
[11:29] <xcdfgkjhgcv> dupondje: If it's annoying, file a bug report about it.
[11:29] <dupondje> maby its possible but I don't know how :)
[11:30] <suit> Got it.
[11:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> dupondje: man apport
[11:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: What was it?
[11:31] <suit> /var/log/aptitude
[11:31] <suit> or apt-get if you use that, i suppose
[11:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: Oh, I thought you identified the problem.
[11:33] <suit> I might have something there, too. vlc-plugin-pulse is not installed. Would've thought that if Karmic installed vlc out of it's repos that would be a dependency.
[11:33] <suit> Weirdly enough, vlc worked for a week without any problems whatsoever without it.
[11:34] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: Maybe you weren't using Pulseaudio?
[11:39] <apw> dupondje, apport-collect <bug number>
[11:39] <xcdfgkjhgcv> FFS I wish Samba didn't hate me.
[11:55] <dupondje> apw: launchpadlib.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized
[11:57] <dupondje> fixed now :) removed the autorization
[11:59] <suit> xcdfgkjhgcv: I just descended into the abyss of sound configuration and figured I really wasn't using PulseAudio but it was still my preferred output device.
[12:02] <richardcavell> Is anyone else getting audio loss?  I am not getting about half of my sounds
[12:04] <dupondje> richardcavell: check my last comment on the bug
[12:04] <dupondje> its strange
[12:04] <richardcavell> dupondje: which bug?
[12:05] <richardcavell> dupondje: I've been napping
[12:05] <richardcavell> dupondje: And by the way, you can add debug stuff to any bug just by running apport bugnumber from the Terminal
[12:05] <dupondje> https://launchpad.net/bugs/412418
[12:05] <richardcavell> I mean apport-collect
[12:06] <dupondje> did that now :)
[12:06] <dupondje> but check last comment, seems something weird
[12:06] <richardcavell> dupondje: yeah,
[12:06] <richardcavell> that's weird
[12:07] <richardcavell> can't explain that
[12:07] <cdE|Woozy> does anyone know why I can't set constrain_y via ccsm -> window management -> move window? If I enable the checkbox, it disables again right away without telling me why
[12:08] <dupondje> it works for you also when u run it directly ?
[12:08] <richardcavell> dupondje: hang on
[12:10] <richardcavell> I'm conducting some experiments
[12:12] <richardcavell> dupondje: gee, sometimes it crashes and sometimes it doesn't
[12:12] <dupondje> check comment, doesn't work from command line neither
[12:12] <richardcavell> I'm going to try it opening from right mouse click:  https://security-shell.ws/showthread.php?t=15891&page=2
[12:12] <dupondje> but if u do firefox-3.5 https://security-shell.ws/showthread.php?t=15891&page=2%27
[12:12] <dupondje> it cuts off the &page=2 :p
[12:13] <dupondje> but gtg now
[12:13] <dupondje> :)
[12:13] <richardcavell> ok
[12:14] <richardcavell> I'm unable to reliably reproduce when it crashes and when it doesn't
[12:14] <richardcavell> it just crashes sometimes
[12:14] <richardcavell> it just did then
[12:24] <suit> I'm a happy camper now. Everything works again. Wheeeee.
[12:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: I can't get Samba to work. :(
[12:26] <suit> I'm sorry mate. Don't think I can help you there
[12:26] <suit> Never used it and not even really sure what it's for
[12:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: File sharing over the network.
[12:27] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: Do you know what a NAS is?
[12:27] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: maybe it would help to explain what the actual problem is that you encounter and someone might be able to help you
[12:28] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: The problem is that my computers can't share files witth each other.
[12:28] <suit> xcdfgkjhgcv: Let's put it like that...when you said 'Nas' i first thought of the rapper. :D
[12:28] <xcdfgkjhgcv> suit: Rap is crap.
[12:30] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: that does not help much really with what the problem is
[12:30] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: you need to explain it a bit more....
[12:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: I don't really know what the problem is.
[12:32] <suit> Doesn't Samba have some kind of verbose output option?
[12:32] <suit> A debugging mode, mayhaps?
[12:32] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: o.O
[12:32] <suit> Check if /var/log/samba exists
[12:33] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: ok...well maybe you can check: Is the machine seeing the shares? Is samba sharing correctly? Is something blocking the shares? Can you access them using smb-client locally? etc
[12:33] <suit> And there's https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpSamba
[12:33] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: stuff like that
[12:35] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.
[12:35] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: I've set ufw to limit Samba.
[12:37] <scizzo-> well then comes the next set of questions: You can mount it and so on but after a while the connection is lost? Sometimes it shows up or it shows up but you can't mount them?
[12:37] <suit> God damn it I love this community.
[12:37] <suit> Had to get that out quickly.
[12:37] <suit> Carry on.
[12:38] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: since the frase: "Its not working." is not very explanatory.....
[12:38] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: I can mount one of my machines but not the other.
[12:38] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: right so now we are starting to get somewhere...
[12:39] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: you can mount one of the linux machines sharing with samba but not the other to another win/mac machine?
[12:39] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: I can mount the machine running Karmic with my Jaunty machine but can't do it the other way around.
[12:40] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: hold on
[12:40] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: you are using samba for linux sharing?
[12:40] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: not really the best thing to be honest but whatever rocks your boat
[12:40] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: It's what Ubuntu likes to make me use.
[12:41] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: is the logfiles telling you anything in /var/log/ ?
[12:41] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: Yes.
[12:41] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: I believe there is a few samba logs there...if not also check the command dmesg
[12:41] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: alright....so is there any errors when you try mounting the shares?
[12:42] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: [79439.850257] [UFW LIMIT BLOCK] IN=ra0 OUT= MAC=ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:00:09:5b:2f:df:96:08:00 SRC=192.168.1.66 DST=192.168.1.255 LEN=78 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=0 DF PROTO=UDP SPT=49497 DPT=137 LEN=58
[12:44] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: and dmesg says nothing?
[12:44] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: That was dmesg.
[12:44] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: its a command
[12:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Hold on, I'll pastebin it.
[12:45] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: no no no
[12:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> http://pastebin.com/m235185d0
[12:45] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: not everything
[12:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: It isn't everything.
[12:45] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: Just the relevant stuff.
[12:47] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: ok then.....so...if I understand this right....the main problem is that you can't mount the jaunty shares on the karmic machine right?
[12:47] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: Correct.
[12:47] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: Also, my Nautilus browsing of Samba is on and off.
[12:47] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Something is definitely pear shaped.
[12:48] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: right...so then that could be the first thing you could say about the problem.... ;)
[12:48] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: instead of "its not working"
[12:48] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: Apologies.
[12:49] <scizzo-> hehe
[12:49] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: Do you think UFW is the problem?
[12:49] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: not sure yet
[12:50] <xcdfgkjhgcv> scizzo-: I think it might be two separate problems I have.
[12:50] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: still checking a little
[12:50] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I'll try disabling UFW and see what happens.
[12:50] <alankila_> There's something wrong with gconfd-2, it's constantly using about 25 % of CPU. It might correlate with enabling compiz. (I no longer can properly start it from the Appearance preferences, but I can start it from terminal just fine.)
[12:51] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: what smbclient version do you have?
[12:51] <xcdfgkjhgcv> alankila_: Confirmed on my PC.
[12:51] <xcdfgkjhgcv> alankila_: File a bug report.
[12:53] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: hmmm can you mount but get the filesystem as read only?
[12:53] <maxb> So, gnome-disk-utility is telling me that one of my disks has bad sectors, in the notification area
[12:53] <maxb> How do I acknowledge this and tell it to stop showing me a notification icon?
[12:53] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Odd. Disabling UFW on the Karmic machine allows me to mount Jaunty shares.
[12:53] <xcdfgkjhgcv> maxb: Same problem here.
[12:54]  * maxb mutters about half-baked apps
[12:56] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: its not odd really
[12:58] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: I might be wrong but if ufw is blocking the access then its not odd
[12:59] <scizzo-> xcdfgkjhgcv: I just did a quick search to see if others have had samba +ufw problems and it seems there has been a few but most old stuff
[13:02] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I'll try changing UFW from limit to allow for Samba.
[13:04] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Hmmm that didn't work.
[13:04] <xcdfgkjhgcv> See? Samba hates me.
[13:09] <alankila_> ok, the problem with cpu load is that metacity process is still running, and probably hammers the gconfd somehow which then takes the cpu hit
[13:09] <alankila_> there's already a bug about that.
[14:05] <amortvigil_> hello
[14:07] <xcdfgkjhgcv> amortvigil_: Greetings.
[14:07] <amortvigil_> xcdfgkjhgcv: nice name :)
[14:08] <xcdfgkjhgcv> amortvigil_: Why thank you.
[14:08] <amortvigil_> xcdfgkjhgcv: what is the most hard bugs at the moment?
[14:08] <amortvigil_> xcdfgkjhgcv: because it looks like chaos to mee :P
[14:10] <xcdfgkjhgcv> amortvigil_: I can't get Samba to work.
[14:10] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Pulseaudio is buggy as hell.
[14:10] <amortvigil_> hum hum
[14:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> The kernel thinks I have an imaginary floppy drive.
[14:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I can't hide the icons on my desktop.
[14:11] <amortvigil_> xcdfgkjhgcv: there is still alot to be fixed :P
[14:23] <Q-FUNK> howdy! regarding Bug #409764 is there still time to implement this?
[14:29] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I'd like to see file operations and Firefox downloads implemented into notify-osd
[14:30] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I wasn't too keen on notify-osd at first.
[14:31] <gbs-wes> my headphones don't work in karmic :( nor does my bruetoof mouse.   also, whenever i plug into the wall, it immediately tells me that my battery is fully charged because its currently FULL OF FAILURE
[14:35] <Ian_> gbs-wes: my headphones don't work either
[14:35] <gbs-wes> i think they'll work if you have them plugged in at boot-time... but haven't tested yet
[14:35] <grandemahatma> here I am
[14:35] <grandemahatma> gbs-wes: hello
[14:36] <grandemahatma> hallo I'm running Ubuntu 8.10 and I'd need python-central 0.6.11... how can I install it?
[14:36] <gbs-wes> hey.. i just told you to come here because someone else was bound to. this is where you discuss anything karmic
[14:36] <gbs-wes> oh. 8.10. oops.
[14:36] <Ian_> grandemahatma: this is for ubunt 9.10
[14:36] <Ian_> :)
[14:36] <grandemahatma> I see... sorry
[14:36] <gbs-wes> sorry
[14:36] <Ian_> lol
[14:36] <gbs-wes> :\
[14:37] <Ian_> was gerr
[14:37] <Ian_> he should just apt-get it
[14:37] <Ian_> that's the current version
[15:12] <mac_v> hi... why does Palimpsest Disk Utility , always show my disks as "Having bad sectors" ? but the fsck returns no errors ?
[15:13] <bjsnider> is it really wise to name the executable for that app "palimpsest"?
[15:14] <mac_v> bjsnider: any thoughts on my error?
[15:15] <bjsnider> i'd say it's a bug in palimpsest. i would report it
[15:15] <mac_v> ok.
[15:59] <mac_v> does any one know how to fix "Reallocated Sector Count"
[16:00] <amortvigil_> mac_v: yes, there is even a hotfix, use a blowtorch on your old pc
[16:00] <amortvigil_> and buy a new one
[16:00] <amortvigil_> sorrie joke
[16:00] <mac_v> amortvigil_: i just have 3 sectors , while my threshold is 50!
[16:01] <amortvigil_> mac_v: maybe you schould chckfs ?
[16:01] <mac_v> amortvigil_: it did fsck and it doesn report any errors
[16:23] <bjsnider> mac_v, why is anything wrong then?
[16:31] <natewiebe13> anyone installed xsplash yet?
[16:37] <mac_v> bjsnider: nope... nothing is wrong , but the stupid palimpset says by disk is failing > Bug #412152
[16:37] <mac_v> natewiebe13: i'v installed xsplash
[16:38] <natewiebe13> mac_v: what did it change? anything yet?
[16:39] <mac_v> natewiebe13: yup , it changes the boot behavior a bit , still needs polish
[16:40] <natewiebe13> okay
[16:40] <mac_v> it as of now , only shows the default wallpaper , in transitions  , but should actually use the user's wallpaper
[17:09] <natewiebe13> anyone here play tf2?
[17:15] <mac_v> natewiebe13: whats tf2?
[17:15] <natewiebe13> team fortress 2
[17:15] <natewiebe13> best multiplayer fps ever made
[17:17] <natewiebe13> mac_v: http://www.tf2.com
[17:17] <mac_v> ;)
[17:19] <kklimonda> natewiebe13: does it have a linux client? ;)
[17:19] <kklimonda> j/k
[17:19] <natewiebe13> wish it did, im stuck with vista for it
[17:19] <natewiebe13> (thumbs down)
[17:20] <natewiebe13> they have a linux server, but that doesnt help me much
[17:20] <bjsnider> don't trash the excellent vista operating system
[17:20] <spO> Do any of you know how to compile ati/fglrx for custom ubuntu kernels?
[17:21] <natewiebe13> bjsnider: windows is the worst thing created by man
[17:21] <bjsnider> what about nuclear weapons?
[17:21] <natewiebe13> if i had to choose, i think id take the nukes
[17:22] <natewiebe13> but then i couldnt play tf2 as smoothly.. wine just doesnt cut it in this case
[17:52] <natewiebe13> anyone know anything about deluge?
[18:01] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I would make the switch from Pidgin to Empathy is Facebook chat and other useful plugins were supported.
[18:03] <crdlb> xcdfgkjhgcv: telepathy-haze should allow empathy to support any protocol pidgin does
[18:03] <xcdfgkjhgcv> crdlb: I meant without lots of crazy hacks.
[18:04] <crdlb> it's not that crazy
[18:05] <kklimonda> any idea why do I hear sound when I click buttons in nautlius?
[18:05] <kklimonda> it's disabled in sound preferences
[18:06] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kklimonda: I'm unable to reproduce.
[18:06] <crdlb> kklimonda: but not in other gtk apps? (firefox doesn't count)
[18:06] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Hmmmm I probably should say that ever again.
[18:06] <xcdfgkjhgcv> "I'm unable to reproduce" LOL
[18:07] <kklimonda> :)
[18:07] <kklimonda> crdlb: no - I don't think so
[18:08] <kklimonda> I wonder if it's because nautilus wasn't restarted after I had a crash of gnome-settings-daemon
[18:08] <kklimonda> yeah, seems like it
[18:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> WTF I just got a ridiculous error message from Synaptic.
[18:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> "The volume "Filesysteem root" has only 8.05.5 MB disk space remaining."
[18:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> ONLY?
[18:11] <xcdfgkjhgcv> That's plenty, stupid software.
[18:12] <crdlb> 8.05.5?
[18:12] <xcdfgkjhgcv> 805.5 sorry
[18:12] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: I believe there is a bug report with that number somewhere
[18:15] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: and 805mb isn't too much free space
[18:16] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kklimonda: It's enough to install Gnome and KDE on.
[18:16] <xcdfgkjhgcv> And lots of other stuff.
[18:16] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: kubuntu-desktop pulls over 501MB of dependencies here
[18:17] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kklimonda: Exactly!
[18:17] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I could install a whole other DE and software suite.
[18:17] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: and 800MB isn't enough for full system upgrade
[18:17] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: how big is your root partition?
[18:17] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kklimonda: 16GB roughly
[18:20] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: also some space (about 5%) is reserved for root - maybe it has something to do with it? Linux is behaving really weird when there is no free space for /tmp so maybe synaptic is just protecting you from yourself? :)
[18:21] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kklimonda: My /tmp is in tmpfs
[18:21] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Hmmm that's a good point; I need to check that my tmpfs is still working since the upgrade to Karmic.
[18:21] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Yeppers.
[18:22] <alankila_> by the way, do you guys routinely use ramzswap? I have discovered that this stuff is so handy that there's no point to have real swap any more. Generally this frees extra space for root partition as well if you start to run out...
[18:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv>  /tmp in tmpfs for security reasons.
[18:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv> alankila_: I don't use swap for security reasons.
[18:24] <lupine_85> cripes
[18:24] <lupine_85> what kind of compression ratio do you get on the RAM?
[18:24] <lupine_85> xcdfgkjhgcv, you realise RAM has a great many security issues too, right? :)
[18:24] <alankila_> I think it's something like 30 to 60 % depending on what goes there
[18:24] <lupine_85> at least you can encrypt your swap
[18:25] <lupine_85> alankila_, hmm, probably not worth me bothering with
[18:25] <xcdfgkjhgcv> lupine_85: Yes.
[18:25]  * lupine_85 doesn't use swap because he has 3GB RAM and is lazy
[18:25]  * xcdfgkjhgcv doesn't use swap because he has 1GB of RAM, integrated graphics, tmpfs used by /tmp and /var/tmp
[18:26] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: you never ran out of ram?
[18:26] <alankila_> well I had to do something on a 1 GB system because I turned into a java programmer last year and I suddenly discovered that 1 GB wasn't enough to run eclipse, servlet container, ant builds, firefox, etc.
[18:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kklimonda: No idea.
[18:26] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I don't really use my PC for much other than Bittorrent and gaming.
[18:27] <alankila_> at first I swapped to usb disk because it's faster to swap to than memory, but now it's ramzswap and it extends the ram by about 500 MB I think
[18:27] <xcdfgkjhgcv> And Firefox and OpenOffice and Gnome.
[18:27] <lupine_85> alankila_, mm, Java is a pig
[18:27] <alankila_> err... faster to swap to than disk, of course
[18:27]  * lupine_85 would love to use eclipse but it doesn't play well with LTSP at all
[18:27] <lupine_85> so can't use it at work
[18:41] <jan____> hi :)
[18:51] <DanaG> "alsa-mixer.c: Your kernel driver is broken: it reports a volume range from 0.00 dB to 0.00 dB which makes no sense."
[18:51] <DanaG> =þ
[19:13] <DanaG> sudo atftpd --no-fork
[19:13] <DanaG> Usage: tftpd [options] [directory]
[19:13] <DanaG> wtf... no maTTER what parameters I pass it, it just tells me the usage info, and quits.
[19:21] <natewiebe13> DanaG: the gdm didnt change much, did it?
[19:21] <DanaG> hmm, I'm not sure... I didn't get around to updating yesterday.
[19:21] <xcdfgkjhgcv> WTF? It's way different.
[19:21] <DanaG> Oh, and I'm still wrangling with tftp timing out.
[19:21] <natewiebe13> xcdfgkjhgcv: xsplash?
[19:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv> natewiebe13: What about it?
[19:22] <natewiebe13> is that what you're saying?
[19:22] <xcdfgkjhgcv> natewiebe13: GDM
[19:23] <natewiebe13> i know the gdm is different, but i meant that the last update (2.27.4-0ubuntu10) didnt change much, all they did from ubuntu9 to ubuntu10 was patch it for xsplash. i was asking if it made a difference
[19:29] <DanaG> ugh, update-manager "running" window is non-resizeable.
[19:29] <donspaulding> I've installed Jaunty, upgraded to Karmic, installed Windows 7 on another partition, and now I'm in a Jaunty LiveCD, how can I reinstall grub as my boot loader and have it dual boot both windows and karmic?
[19:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Where can I find changelog summaries for the latest updates?
[19:31] <xcdfgkjhgcv> They don't seem to be included in the packages themselves.
[19:32] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: most packages should have /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog.gz
[19:32] <kklimonda> and changelog.Debian.gz
[19:33] <kklimonda> at least that was the idea but I have seen quite a lot of packages without it lately
[19:34] <xcdfgkjhgcv> Xsplash has just been updated from 0.3 to 0.4. What is new?
[19:34] <natewiebe13> donspaulding: look on google
[19:34] <xcdfgkjhgcv> donspaulding: There are lots of guides for that on Google.
[19:35] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: in the case there is no changelog you can always browse vcs log
[19:35] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xsplash-team/xsplash/trunk/changes/38?start_revid=38 for xsplash
[19:36] <natewiebe13> xcdfgkjhgcv: fallback timer i think
[19:36] <xcdfgkjhgcv> What is Xsplash?
[19:37] <natewiebe13> its taking over usplash
[19:37] <natewiebe13> the x session is going to start right after bios
[19:37] <xcdfgkjhgcv> So I can apt-get remove usplash now and it'll use Xsplash?
[19:37] <natewiebe13> there will be a fully graphical boot
[19:37] <natewiebe13> dont remove usplash
[19:37] <bjsnider> i don't know why it matters. if they achieve their boot time goals, it won't be onscreen for long
[19:37] <kklimonda> natewiebe13: didn't fedora try to go this way and decided to switch to plymouth?
[19:38] <natewiebe13> ya
[19:38] <kklimonda> I remember that they previous splash, although pretty, was launching way too late too be useful..
[19:38] <natewiebe13> xcdfgkjhgcv: when usplash gets removed, it will be removed automatically from update manager
[19:39] <natewiebe13> xcdfgkjhgcv: right now it comes on right after usplash and after you login
[19:39] <natewiebe13> doesnt serve much purpose yet
[19:39] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I really don't give a fuck about bootup graphics; I just want it to be quick.
[19:39] <kklimonda> xcdfgkjhgcv: please, watch your language
[19:39] <natewiebe13> karmic is lagging for me at bootup
[19:40] <natewiebe13> jaunty is quicker for me than karmic, jaunty im at 17 seconds, and karmic im at 28 seconds
[19:40] <xcdfgkjhgcv> kklimonda: Command acknowledged.
[19:41] <hggdh> maybe obvious, but: anyone knows how to mute the bloody PC speaker?
[19:41] <xcdfgkjhgcv> hggdh: With alsamixer?
[19:43] <hggdh> :-) now, who would have said it would work?
[19:43] <kklimonda> hggdh: should it be already disabled?
[19:44] <kklimonda> hggdh: pcspkr module  should be blacklisted
[19:44] <hggdh> let me check
[19:44] <xcdfgkjhgcv> PC speaker is ANNOYING
[19:46] <natewiebe13> blacklist it yourself if it isnt..
[19:47] <natewiebe13> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf
[19:47] <natewiebe13> blacklist pcspkr
[19:50] <ripps> Does anybody know if it's possible to trigger indicator-applet from commandline. I'm trying to see If I can write a script to leave messages in it.
[19:51] <natewiebe13> anybody tried xsplash 0.4
[19:51] <natewiebe13> ?
[19:51] <xcdfgkjhgcv> natewiebe13: I've just installed it.
[19:51] <natewiebe13> difference between 0.3 and 0.4? or was it just the fallback?
[19:51] <kklimonda> ripps: probably the "easiest" way would be to use python-indicate module?
[19:52] <natewiebe13> im gonna go see if it makes a visible difference
[19:54] <ripps> kklimonda: can python be used to write irssi scripts?
[19:54] <kklimonda> no, only perl
[19:54] <ripps> not that it matters, I don't have any skill writing in perl or python
[19:57] <DanaG> !find devfs_fs_kernel.h
[19:58] <DanaG> damn.
[19:59] <xcdfgkjhgcv> natewiebe13: Well?
[20:00] <xcdfgkjhgcv> natewiebe13: Report.
[20:01] <natewiebe13> makes no visible difference
[20:01] <DanaG> ah, I figured out my problem with that file.  =þ
[20:01] <natewiebe13> but am i the only one that grub no longer shows up?
[20:05] <natewiebe13> with others that have xsplash.. does grub show up at boot?
[20:06] <DanaG> hmm, I'll try it after I reboot in a bit.
[20:13] <hggdh> yes, pcspkr is not loaded. I guess the sound is generated via alsa, emulating it. *NOW* I could disable it in alsamixer (which did not work two weeks ago)
[20:14] <slacker_nl> wow, whole bunch of kde updates <3
[20:39] <natewiebe13> DanaG: with printing 1 copy i get 1, 2 copies, i get 4, 3 copies i get 9
[20:40] <natewiebe13> i looks like its taking the number of copies and multiplying by itself
[20:46] <DanaG> xsplash is ugly.  I get this when gdm starts:
[20:46] <DanaG> black screen with cursor.  blinks to white and then default wallpaper.  flips to black.
[20:46] <DanaG> flips to login screen with my wallpaper.
[20:46] <DanaG> so it goes through black about two times, actually.
[20:47] <DanaG> yeah, white brown black brown black loginscreen
[20:48] <natewiebe13> yup
[20:48] <natewiebe13> same
[20:48] <natewiebe13> DanaG: with printing 1 copy i get 1, 2 copies, i get 4, 3 copies i get 9, 4 copies i get 16
[20:48] <natewiebe13> it looks like its taking the number of copies and multiplying by itself
[20:48] <DanaG> wow, that's odd.
[20:49] <natewiebe13> ya.. thats after the update i did today
[20:50] <lufis> Having some trouble with sound on alpha 3. I get absolutely no playback anywhere
[20:50] <DanaG> Oh, and xsplash after login: gives brown, blue, brown, then delay, then real wallpaper.
[20:50] <DanaG> Blue is my specifically-set gdm wallpaper.
[20:50] <DanaG> In late evening, it's a dark grey instead.
[20:50] <DanaG> so yeah, xsplash is currently... hideous.
[20:51] <natewiebe13> yup
[20:51] <natewiebe13> agreed
[20:51] <natewiebe13> but any idea with the printing issue?
[20:52] <natewiebe13> or do you think its time for a bug report?
[20:52] <bjsnider> it's always time for a bug report
[20:52] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and this time I got a blink to WHITE on login, too... followed by a fade to my wallpaper.
[20:58] <natewiebe13> DanaG: ive had the white blink since i installed karmic
[21:06] <jdoggy> hello, I installed lvm encrypted ubuntu (with the alternate text installer), and when I upgraded from jaunty to karmic it won't boot any longer because the disk uuid has changed, can somebody tell me how I might go about fixing this?
[21:08] <jdoggy> I guess my question can be simplified to this: how do I mount/boot an encrypted lvm partition from the textbox/grub command line?
[21:13] <BUGabundo> hey
[21:14] <arand> hullo
[21:14] <guntbert> BUGabundo: was that vbox-headless package from you? someone asked for such a thing and my memory failed...
[21:14] <BUGabundo> nop not me
[21:14] <guntbert> BUGabundo: sorry, wrong channel :/
[21:15] <BUGabundo> np
[21:34] <mac_v> BUGabundo: hi... do you know how to fix "Reallocated Sector Count" ? i just have 3 sectors  but the stupid palimpsest says by disk is failing > Bug #412152
[21:34] <mac_v> my*
[21:35] <BUGabundo> oooppsss
[21:35] <BUGabundo> your disk is dyeing
[21:35] <BUGabundo> make backups an insert a new one
[21:35] <BUGabundo> that *will* not last longer
[21:36] <mac_v> BUGabundo: i just have 3 errors , but the threshold is 50!
[21:36] <BUGabundo> I'm sure it will grow
[21:36] <BUGabundo> once disk errors start
[21:36] <BUGabundo> they tend to grow very fast
[21:36] <mac_v> 0.o
[21:36] <BUGabundo> to to unbalalced plates
[21:38] <spO> i have jaunty installed, how can i upgrade or install karmic?
[21:38] <spO> do i have to do a fresh install?
[21:38] <BUGabundo> sp0 $ update-manager -d
[21:38] <mac_v> BUGabundo: BTW , dyeing > means hair dye , or cloth coloring
[21:38] <DanaG> Yeah, palimpsest (HORRIBLE name, by the way) is alarmist.
[21:38] <BUGabundo> heheeehe
[21:38] <BUGabundo> killed
[21:38] <BUGabundo> not working
[21:38] <mac_v> hehe
[21:38] <spO> bug, is ther eosmething for console?
[21:39] <BUGabundo> spO: of course
[21:39] <DanaG> I installed the gnome-disk-utility package, and tried to run gnome-disk-utility.  No such command.
[21:39] <DanaG> it's pa....limp........sest?
[21:39] <DanaG> whatthehellisthat?
[21:39] <DanaG> Apparently it's an 'erased parchment", or something.
[21:39] <mac_v> DanaG: too geeky!
[21:40] <bjsnider> i was complaining about that earlier
[21:40] <bjsnider> the name of the executable should not be palimpsest
[21:40] <BUGabundo> hey popey
[21:40] <DanaG> And it's alarmist.
[21:40] <spO> danag, you talked two days ago about installing fglrx to a 2.6.30 kernel, what about a custom kernel?
[21:41] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and I have an eSATA drive that doesn't pass SMART commands the normal way; the only tool I've seen work is "hdd sentinel".
[21:41] <DanaG> oh yeah, should work for that, too -- custom kernel.
[21:41] <BUGabundo> is esata dead on karmic???
[21:41] <BUGabundo> I can't use it :((((
[21:42] <spO> danag, hwo do you install fglrx for 2.6.30 or a custom kernel?
[21:43] <natewiebe13> why is everyone running a custom kernel?
[21:44] <bjsnider> no one but him
[21:44] <bjsnider> he knows he shouldn't be asking about it in here
[21:44] <mac_v> BUGabundo: how can i know which partition has the bad sector?
[21:44] <DanaG> DKMS will do it for you... as long as you use make-kpkg.
[21:44] <spO> let me guess, it is off topic in here?
[21:45] <DanaG> heh, stupid xsplash.
[21:45] <DanaG> login gives white.brown....blue....white...brown..fade to desktop.
[21:45] <mac_v> DanaG: why stupid, seems nice :)
[21:45] <BUGabundo> mac_v: tune2fs?
[21:45] <DanaG> It's hideous, if you use a non-default gdm wallpaper.
[21:46] <DanaG> It flickers to white, and it assumes you use the default wallpaper.
[21:46] <mac_v> BUGabundo: ah!
[21:46] <DanaG> so yeah, it's ugly.  =þ
[21:46] <mac_v> DanaG: can you confirm this? > Bug #412598
[21:47] <spO> why would talking about custom kernels be off topic in here? i don't quiet understand that, who dictates what the collective of ubuntu developers can talk about and why would ubuntu have implementation to compile your own kernel if you cannot even talk about it in here?
[21:48] <dtchen> spO: troubleshooting custom kernels falls outside the charter of this irc channel, which is devoted to discussion of features and bugs in the current development release _unmodified in the base components_.
[21:49] <DanaG> oh yeah, and for me, xsplash appears only at login... I still have normal usplash!
[21:49] <dtchen> spO: that said, a number of people compile and run custom kernels on any number of ubuntu releases; you just have to find them and engage them in a time-efficient manner ;-)
[21:49] <spO> and who is the proclaimed dictator(s) who make the rules for the rest of the developers?
[21:50] <mac_v> DanaG: normal usplash meaning the jaunty progress bar?
[21:50] <DanaG> Yeah.
[21:50] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and on gdm start, it flickers through black, white, and brown several times.
[21:50] <dtchen> spO: if you have an issue with it, you need to discuss it with the ubuntu irc ops
[21:51] <mac_v> DanaG: boot splash still hasnt been implemented yet
[21:51] <mac_v> xsplash
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> DanaG - that's probablt expected right now, because xsplash requires a running Xorg
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> right, what mac_v said
[21:51] <bjsnider> DanaG, how does xsplash supposedly improve on usplash
[21:51] <DanaG> oh yeah, and earlier I got this: alsa driver reports decibel values between 0.0 and 0.0, which makes no sense.
[21:52] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and if they want xsplash to really suit gnome... it needs to implement the same Gnome xml-wallpaper thingy that libgnome-bg does.
[21:52] <DanaG> s/suit/work well with/
[21:52]  * mac_v thinks DanaG forgot xsplash is WIP
[21:52] <DanaG> heh.
[21:53] <DanaG> And it's really early, at that.
[21:53] <natewiebe13> DanaG: did grub show up for you?
[21:53] <mac_v> natewiebe13: latest update hides grub by dfault
[21:53] <natewiebe13> how do you get it back up?
[21:54] <DanaG> oh yeah, I was using the gfxmenu one, but it's glitchy, so I ppa-purged it.
[21:54] <mac_v> natewiebe13: you mean always visible?
[21:54] <natewiebe13> either always, or when you want it
[21:55] <natewiebe13> doesnt matter
[21:55] <mac_v> natewiebe13: press ESC during boot
[21:55] <mac_v> it will show the grub entries
[21:55] <BUGabundo> dtchen: my audio is auto lowering to MUTE :(((
[21:55] <BUGabundo> every 2 mins
[21:55] <mac_v> BUGabundo: \o/ me too
[21:55] <dtchen> BUGabundo: did you disable flatvol?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> well its better then I get 140 %
[21:55] <natewiebe13> my audio is fine
[21:55] <BUGabundo> dtchen:  no changes from me
[21:56] <spO> is there a console command to upgrade jaunty to karmic?
[21:56] <mac_v> dtchen: flatvol? what is that?
[21:56] <natewiebe13> mac_v: i already tried ESC at startup, but i'll do it again
[21:56] <natewiebe13> when should i press it?
[21:57] <BUGabundo> spO: I already gave it to you
[21:57] <BUGabundo> sp0 $ update-manager -d
[21:57] <spO> bug, update-manager -d is a graphical interface
[21:57] <spO> you need to run xwindows
[21:57] <BUGabundo> dtchen: any ideas? need any logs?
[21:57] <mac_v> natewiebe13: initially , during boot as soon as you start
[21:57] <DanaG> Flat volumes are just plain b0rkage.
[21:57] <BUGabundo> sp0 $ do-release-upgrade -d
[21:57] <BUGabundo> pfff
[21:58] <BUGabundo> sooooo easy :)
[21:58] <DanaG> not "broken"... they break OTHER things.
[21:58] <mac_v> natewiebe13: keep hitting it , just to be sure :)
[21:58] <kklimonda> DanaG: works fo me ;)
[21:58] <DanaG> well, it doesn't work for the way I think about volume.
[21:58] <DanaG> If I change the volume of totem, I don't want it to suddenly max out the volume of the sound card itself.
[21:59] <DanaG> I accidentally blasted myself due to that, yesterday.
[21:59] <mac_v> lol
[21:59] <DanaG> Totem was too quiet to hear, and I saw totem's volume low... so I turned it up, to where it's at full volume of whatever the card is at.
[21:59] <bjsnider> at least it didn't explode one of your speakers
[21:59] <DanaG> Or at laest, that's what it WOULD have been under how I think of volume control!
[21:59] <kklimonda> actually I have never though about it myself - I just use it :)
[21:59] <DanaG> But nooooo, instead, changing the app volume changed the sound card volume, too!
[22:00] <DanaG> The way I deal with volume controls is the way Windows deals with it:
[22:00] <DanaG> Card is at some percent of its max.... and app is at some percent of whatever-card-it-is-on,.
[22:00] <mac_v> DanaG: have you reported a bug about that ?
[22:00] <kklimonda> mac_v: it's not a bug
[22:00] <kklimonda> mac_v: that's how flat volume works
[22:01] <kklimonda> DanaG: wasn't it done the same way in Vista?
[22:01] <DanaG> And it's damn confusing.
[22:01] <mac_v> kklimonda: thats not right, if i change the volume of the app , the system volume should not change ,
[22:01] <DanaG> Nope, it's not.
[22:01] <mac_v> its not done anywhere like that!
[22:01] <DanaG> At least, not when apps control their own volume.
[22:01] <kklimonda> DanaG: totem apparently doesn't
[22:01] <kklimonda> DanaG: banshee for example is independent from pulseaudio (which I find confusing :) )
[22:02] <DanaG> You may be thinking of that line on the Vista mixer... that acts as a sort of cap.  But that's the windows UI, not the app itself.
[22:02] <DanaG> Each app sees only its own volume; the UI just changes the way it's displayed.
[22:02] <dtchen> BUGabundo: in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf, use "flat-volumes = no"; killall pulseaudio
[22:02] <mac_v> kklimonda: the app volume was independant untill the latest updates
[22:02] <kklimonda> DanaG: application's shouldn't have independent volume control imo
[22:02] <BUGabundo> dtchen: yes Sir
[22:02] <kklimonda> it should be done all via pulseaudio mixer imo
[22:02] <DanaG> Well, I'm fine with totem's built-in thingy mapping to the app-thingy in PulseAudio; that's the same way Winamp does it, in Vista.
[22:02] <kklimonda> dtchen: I've commented on "my" audio bug
[22:03] <mac_v> kklimonda: why is that?! i might want one app lower while i have something else higher
[22:03] <DanaG> Try Winamp in Vista.
[22:03] <dtchen> kklimonda: what #?
[22:03] <kklimonda> mac_v: and it works like this right now
[22:03] <bjsnider> why is banshee independent of pulseaudio?
[22:03] <kklimonda> bjsnider: probably messy code
[22:03] <BUGabundo> !ping
[22:03] <mac_v> no banshee is right to be independant
[22:03] <BUGabundo> some one ping me please
[22:03] <mac_v> BUGabundo:
[22:03] <BUGabundo> works
[22:03] <BUGabundo> I have sound
[22:04] <BUGabundo> lets see for how long
[22:04] <bjsnider> BUGabundo, mastermind of the watergate scandal
[22:04] <kklimonda> dtchen: bug 410769
[22:04] <dtchen> BUGabundo: if pulse keeps dying for you, try disabling shm, too. Same conffile.
[22:04] <DanaG> Each app's volume control should control the pulseaudio volume slider for that app... and not the sound card itself!
[22:05] <BUGabundo> ok dtchen. will try to keep that in mind
[22:05] <kklimonda> DanaG: a
[22:05] <bjsnider> i thought that's what banshee did
[22:05] <BUGabundo> or ask ppl here to remind me :)
[22:05] <kklimonda> DanaG: a) it does and b) you can disable flat volume if you really don't like it
[22:05] <bjsnider> it's what happens here
[22:05] <DanaG> WHat it does for me: controls both the sound card and the app.
[22:05] <mac_v> kklimonda: how to disable flatvolume?
[22:05] <ripps> Does anybody know how to use gpg-agent and pinentry over ssh. I'm trying to pull bzr packges, build, sign and upload them from a remote machine
[22:05] <DanaG> So, instead of putting the app at 100% of card volume...
[22:05] <DanaG> it puts the card at 100% volume, period.
[22:06] <DanaG> BAM!
[22:06] <DanaG> yeah.
[22:06] <kklimonda> mac_v: I don't know, check google :)
[22:06] <mac_v> meh!
[22:06] <dtchen> kklimonda: ok, so the patch _is_ working
[22:07] <dtchen> kklimonda: you just uncovered a bug in pulseaudio as well
[22:07] <kklimonda> dtchen: it did for the first time only when I've disabled alsa.. now it's all back to beginning (I've even checked out for sure if I'm running the right kernel)
[22:07] <dtchen> meaning "disabled pulseaudio"?
[22:07] <kklimonda> dtchen: yes
[22:08] <DanaG> oh yeah, on the plus side, the auto-stream-switching rocks.
[22:08] <DanaG> oh yeah, how hard would it be to get PulseAudio running on, say, a MIPS-based thingy?
[22:08] <dtchen> kklimonda: right, so if you remove pulseaudio (i.e., don't run it at all), it should not exhibit the symptom at all
[22:08] <dtchen> DanaG: if it compiles, it should run
[22:08] <dtchen> pulse itself doesn't have anything that prevents it from running on those arches
[22:09] <mac_v> dtchen: how do i disable flatvolume?
[22:09]  * kklimonda feels like a chimpanzee when it comes to debugging sounds issues.. ;/
[22:12] <DanaG> I'm considering making my senior project be this: port a newer kernel to the C-Media CM-WS 01  (also known as wii-sonic).
[22:12] <DanaG> Picture a router, with a PCI audio chip.
[22:13] <kklimonda> dtchen: I'm pretty sure I had to kill PA first (it was missing "Analog output" profile at all which is weird because I couldn't reproduce it anytime later).
[22:14] <dtchen> mac_v: i mentioned above to BUGabundo
[22:14] <BUGabundo> dtchen: FYI until now it seems stable
[22:14]  * mac_v scrolls
[22:14] <dtchen> BUGabundo: what modifications did you make until "now"?
[22:14] <BUGabundo> mac_v: in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf, use "flat-volumes = no"; killall pulseaudio
[22:14] <BUGabundo> dtchen: Only that One
[22:14] <kklimonda> heh, pa dies on me recently all the time when I pause/resume mplayer :/
[22:14] <BUGabundo> I try to keep it pretty standard dtchen
[22:15] <dtchen> kklimonda: using which output (-ao )?
[22:15] <kklimonda> dtchen: pulse
[22:15]  * BUGabundo starts exaile to push PA to the limit
[22:15] <dtchen> kklimonda: that one's not recommended. use -ao alsa instead
[22:16] <kklimonda> ok, changed
[22:16] <DanaG> oh yeah, last time I used mplayer, I had to manually tell mplayer to do -channels 6.
[22:16] <kklimonda> btw, I really like how pulse is shaping up.
[22:19] <DanaG> yeah, PulseAudio is awesome.
[22:19] <kklimonda> ok, I've lost all my sound :D
[22:19] <dtchen> also, luke and i are rolling stuff in the ~ubuntu-audio-dev ppa
[22:19] <dtchen> you'll probably want to track that one
[22:19] <DanaG> now, here's a summer-of-code idea: a virtual sound card driver for Windows, that works with a windows PA server.
[22:19] <mac_v> BUGabundo: ah thanx... do i have to restart X for the settings to take effect? i tired killall but doesnt seem to take effect yet
[22:19] <BUGabundo> nope
[22:20] <BUGabundo> just kill PA
[22:20] <DanaG> I'd consider that as senior project, but considering I have no Windows (even non-driver) programming experience, that's overly ambitious.
[22:20] <mac_v> hmm... but still the system volume changes with totem! :(
[22:23] <DanaG> oh yeah, something bad about the new volume control applet: it makes it damn hard to do pulseaudio -vvv.
[22:23] <kklimonda> dtchen is gone? :/
[22:25] <jdoggy> hi, how do I mount/boot an encrypted lvm partition from the textbox/grub command line?
[22:37] <Q-FUNK> howdy! what is this new 'xsplash' package supposed to do?  replace usplash?
[22:38]  * BUGabundo has it disabled and unsintaled
[22:44] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: yes
[22:44] <DanaG> ... eventually.
[22:44] <DanaG> Right now it's just hideous and jarring.  =P
[22:50] <Q-FUNK> mac_v: ok. it just appeared out of nowhere and doesn't seem to be doing much of anything, which felt like an odd last-minute addition, considering that we're already in alpha stage.
[22:50] <kklimonda> Q-FUNK: well, we are only in an alpha stage
[22:51] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: well thats alpha... xsplash will eventually replace usplash
[22:51] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: there is nothin before alpha ;p
[22:52] <Q-FUNK> before alpha, there's all the time in the world to make changes.  starting with alpha, things should mostly be in release shape, but might still have a few rough edges.
[22:53] <BUGabundo> ahh???
[22:53] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: you are mistaken
[22:53] <BUGabundo> what are you saying??
[22:53] <BUGabundo> we are alpha ALL the way past Feature Freeze
[22:53] <kklimonda> Q-FUNK: first alpha is released 2 weeks after toolchain update
[22:53] <kklimonda> Q-FUNK: seriously you don't think it should be considered feature freeze?
[22:53] <Q-FUNK> hasn't the feature freeze come already?
[22:54] <kklimonda> not
[22:54] <kklimonda> it's 27th august
[22:54] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: as i said , there is nothing before alpha! alpha is the first step
[22:54] <Q-FUNK> that's coming pretty quick.  it's a tad too close to that date to make such changes.
[22:55] <DanaG> I hope it;;; be kest bblinky-glitchy-colorflippy.
[22:55] <kklimonda> Q-FUNK: no - it can be dropped after this date if it doesn't work
[22:55] <DanaG> er, sorry, using r600 compiz.
[22:55] <DanaG> makes it hard to type in gnome-terminal.
[22:55] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: wait for 26th you'll have more last minute changes ;p
[22:55] <BUGabundo> !schedule | Q-FUNK
[22:56] <Q-FUNK> call it a side-effect of a 10+ year career in product management, but I've seen times and times again how introducing that sort of changes so close to a feature freeze is entirely the wrong thing to do. :)
[22:57]  * mac_v gives up!
[22:58] <kklimonda> Q-FUNK: if it doesn't work as expected before launch we can always remove it.
[23:01] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: just out of curiosity ... what in your experience is the product label before an alpha?
[23:01] <kklimonda> big pile of c#$@ ;)
[23:01] <mac_v> hehe
[23:02] <Q-FUNK> mac_v: development phase.
[23:02] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: maybe you are new to ubuntu , here alpha is the development phase
[23:03] <mac_v> i think it is similar for all OS ,
[23:03] <Q-FUNK> not quite
[23:04] <kklimonda> mac_v: I think that when you have a big development team some of people are working on a new things and some are polishing the next release
[23:05] <mac_v> kklimonda: hehe , when do we get such a team ;p
[23:05] <kklimonda> mac_v: never
[23:05] <mac_v> exactly
[23:05] <Q-FUNK> development -> alpha (first rough release, already 90% feature frozen) -> beta (pre-release version of the final product, distributed to a wider audience to check for possible last-minute bugs, 99% feature freeeze) -> final.
[23:06] <BUGabundo> Q-FUNK: Ubuntu as a *very* short devel cycle
[23:06] <kklimonda> Q-FUNK: as I said - we can't really do it this way as we are lacking people. Frankly, we don't even have enough of them for QA of released versions.. :/
[23:06] <BUGabundo> well we don't even DO devel on the distro per si
[23:06] <BUGabundo> its more like packaging upstream and iron stuff out to work together
[23:07] <mac_v> Q-FUNK: we have 6 months cycles , so not possible
[23:07] <ripps> Q-FUNK: Ubuntu is similar, Alpha->Beta->Release Candidate->Final
[23:09] <ripps> You apparently use Beta as Release Candidate
[23:10] <Q-FUNK> ripps: I've seldom seen projects where there's time to have them separate from betas
[23:10] <Q-FUNK> time or will
[23:11] <Q-FUNK> either that or, in the case of the linux kernel, everything is in constant flux in GIT, sometimes packaged as change sets (release candidates) then released as final.
[23:14] <Q-FUNK> I guess you could say that the methodology is to use alpha and beta as a two stage feature freeze, coupled with two levels of testing (alpha as internal, beta as internal + trusted partners).
[23:14] <Q-FUNK> release candidates, if they get issues, are almost finished products that perhaps lack updated documentation but are otherwise pretty much ready to ship as-is.
[23:14] <Q-FUNK> öö.. get issued
[23:16] <kklimonda> Q-FUNK: no time for few levels of testing :/
[23:16] <kklimonda> we just test it all the time during development ;)
[23:17] <Q-FUNK> so I noticed :)
[23:17] <ripps> Q-FUNK: we are the internal testing. Ubuntu is a community based distro. Yes, it does have a cooperate backer, but we are the ones that shape it.
[23:18] <BUGabundo> we are mouse labs
[23:18] <Q-FUNK> corporate.  right
[23:44] <spO> how do i downgrade from karmic to jaunty?
[23:47] <kklimonda> spO: you can't
[23:47] <spO> OH NO
[23:47] <kklimonda> spO: it's not supported, the easiest was is to backup your data and install system from scratch
[23:47] <bjsnider> using a jaunty livecd
[23:48] <kklimonda> spO: I'd also remove all settings
[23:49] <BUGabundo> well
[23:49] <BUGabundo> on karmic+1 we will be able too
[23:49] <BUGabundo> *to
[23:50] <BUGabundo> with UM sandbox from mvo
[23:50] <Q-FUNK> spO: you could, but it involves some ugly tricks with APT
[23:51] <kklimonda> it's really hard and error-prone
[23:51] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: hmm? what sandbox?
[23:51] <BUGabundo> Q-FUNK: he can't
[23:52] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: like in installing karmic+1 in sandbox for testing?
[23:52] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: there were a few emails to the devel ML about it
[23:52] <BUGabundo> no no
[23:52] <BUGabundo> you Upgrade, don't like it, restore old system
[23:52] <BUGabundo> or better, discard the upgrade
[23:52] <BUGabundo> since it is on a tempfs
[23:52] <kklimonda> hmm.. I kind of missed them - I'm rethinking my ubuntu workflow as I'm getting spammed by MLs and desktop bugs currently
[23:52] <Q-FUNK> sad but true, not all software is packaged sanely enough to even allow globally reinstalling current versions using the --reinstall APT option.  so, yes, downgrading is even more tricky.
[23:54] <cyphermox> couldn't you just pin the packages back to the previous release?
[23:55] <Q-FUNK> cyphermox: not quite. maintainer scripts often perfrom operations during upgrades that cannot be undone
[23:55] <cyphermox> ah
[23:56] <cyphermox> such as? stuff like the grub upgrade or something?
[23:56] <Q-FUNK> one that I found today, for instance:  swfdec-mozilla
[23:57] <kklimonda> cyphermox: also some libraries can't be easily downgraded, for example libc
[23:57] <kklimonda> or libcstd++
[23:57] <cyphermox> ah, of course
[23:57] <Q-FUNK> that one has a seriously broken maintainer script (was it prerm or postinst, I forgot) that insists on redoing the alternatives for all mozilla variants, without first chekcing if each variant is installed.  result: it exit with errors.
[23:58] <cyphermox> it would need to be done in a specific order, right?
[23:59] <cyphermox> thanks for the clarification :)
[23:59] <Q-FUNK> cyphermox: there is a trick I sometimes use, but it needs manual fixing:   pin packages from the previous name release to 1000 in /etc/apt/preferences and from the current release to 1.  then, change sources.list, apt-get update, then apt-get dist-upgrade.
[23:59] <xcdfgkjhgcv> I can't get DAAP or Samba to work. :(