/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/12/#ubuntu+1.txt

aboSamoor	BUGabundo, there ?	00:16
BUGabundo	yep	00:16
aboSamoor	BUGabundo, I think you know about the multisearch addon bug, I reported that one, and I want to ask you about your experience regarding such issues	00:17
BUGabundo	LOLOL	00:18
BUGabundo	I said my mind enoutgh about it	00:18
BUGabundo	I disabled it	00:18
aboSamoor	this is my first time to have such hot bug, and I was surprised how much the people are aggressive	00:18
BUGabundo	and recommend everyone to do it too	00:18
aboSamoor	is this normal in bug reports, I mean the language and and impatience ?	00:18
BUGabundo	not aggressive	00:18
BUGabundo	apprensive	00:18
BUGabundo	no	00:18
BUGabundo	not many bugs get that big	00:18
BUGabundo	only now of 5 in the last 2 cycles	00:19
BUGabundo	one for UM	00:19
BUGabundo	on for notifyOSD	00:19
BUGabundo	one for intel drivers	00:19
crimsun	people tend to feel impatient if they feel things are not precisely as they want them in "their" distro	00:20
aboSamoor	BUGabundo, what is that 5 ?	00:22
BUGabundo	this one	00:22
BUGabundo	lolol	00:22
aboSamoor	BUGabundo, despite the LOLs, i feel stupid not understanding what is that 5 in 2 !	00:24
BUGabundo	sorry??	00:24
bjsnider	multisearch addon bug?	00:29
aboSamoor	bjsnider, BUG 402767	00:32
ubottu	Launchpad bug 402767 in firefox-3.0 "multisearch CSE breaks l18n+setfocus+images+cached+I'm feeling lucky functionality and "violates user trust"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402767	00:33
JanC	aboSamoor: he means he knows of 5 such "hot" bugs during the last 2 Ubuntu versions	00:33
BUGabundo	correct	00:33
BUGabundo	sorry was WFK	00:33
aboSamoor	JanC, I was confused because he mentioned 3 + 1 implicitly	00:36
JanC	I guess the 5th was U1	00:36
JanC	maybe	00:36
aboSamoor	yeah, I just discovered th U1 by reddit	00:37
BUGabundo	eeheheh	00:37
BUGabundo	u1?	00:37
BUGabundo	baahhh	00:37
BUGabundo	that's not a byg	00:38
BUGabundo	that's a FAIL	00:38
BUGabundo	LOL	00:38
BUGabundo	almost forgot that one	00:38
bjsnider	U1?	00:38
BUGabundo	ok we can fit that on the list	00:38
BUGabundo	what is this?	00:38
BUGabundo	bjsnider question day?	00:38
BUGabundo	LOLOL	00:38
BUGabundo	bjsnider: U1= UbuntuOne.com	00:38
bjsnider	ok	00:39
aboSamoor	so If linux subreddit is a thermometer, then there is another hot bug that is really annoying more than most of the previous 5 hot bugs	00:39
aboSamoor	I mean the firefox performance	00:39
aboSamoor	on my laptop firefox takes about 30 seconds to open	00:40
BUGabundo	mine is very fast	00:41
BUGabundo	just tends to break with many stuff	00:41
JanC	hm, depends on # of addons and such too	00:41
aboSamoor	I ran ff-3.6 but was not that better	00:41
BUGabundo	ADVERT: I run 3.6 alpha from daily ppa	00:41
BUGabundo	JanC: you don't have enough fingers to count how many I have :)	00:41
aboSamoor	I have 6 addons and all of them are popular addons which means it is hard to find serious bugs in them	00:42
aboSamoor	6 without multisearch :P	00:43
BUGabundo	pfff	00:46
JanC	BUGabundo: how do you know I'm not an alien with 100 tentacle-fingers?	00:46
BUGabundo	let me list mine	00:46
BUGabundo	JanC: humm still I would have more :)	00:46
BUGabundo	kidding	00:46
BUGabundo	this is 3.6. on 3.0 and 3.5 I had more working http://paste.ubuntu.com/251665/	00:47
aboSamoor	BUGabundo, this is like committing suicide	00:49
BUGabundo	naaa	00:49
BUGabundo	its adding extra funcionality and bugs	00:49
aboSamoor	according to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501605 ff access IE history on startup and this makes it slow, i wonder if my ff on ubuntu is earching for IE for 30 seconds then it realizes that I am waiting so it opens the tabs !	00:52
ubottu	Mozilla bug 501605 in Libraries "very slow startup for Firefox 3.5 due to accessing IE Internet Temporary Files and Windows Temp folder" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]	00:53
BUGabundo	time to hit the sack	01:01
bjsnider	you're going to punch alexander sack?	01:32
ubuntu	i installed windows and now i cant restore gryb can anyone help me i am on the live cd now	02:19
billybigrigger	!grub2	02:23
ubottu	GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2	02:23
billybigrigger	ubuntu its there	02:23
billybigrigger	Recovering Grub from a LiveCD	02:23
billybigrigger	or something :P	02:24
ubuntu	billybigrigger: the problem installed windows and now my partion is gone	02:24
ubuntu	how do i restore it i onliy have a cd of ubuntu 7.04	02:25
ubuntu	live cd	02:25
billybigrigger	your partition is gone?	02:25
billybigrigger	so your overwrote ubuntu?	02:25
billybigrigger	with window	02:26
billybigrigger	s	02:26
ubuntu	billybigrigger: only the boot loader	02:26
billybigrigger	read the wiki then	02:26
ubuntu	but grub 2 and one does differ	02:29
ubuntu	billybigrigger: the problem is i have a 7.04 liv cd and in adept there is no grub 2	02:30
billybigrigger	well if your running karmic you should be running grub 2	02:30
billybigrigger	grub legacy isn't supported anymore	02:30
ubuntu	billybigrigger: so how do i get my system up and running	02:31
billybigrigger	how about download a current livecd?	02:32
ubuntu	billybigrigger: link me	02:32
ubuntu	please	02:33
billybigrigger	?	02:33
ubuntu	livecd link	02:33
ubuntu	cauz i am on kubuntu 7.04 livecd	02:33
billybigrigger	pat yourself on the back	02:33
ubuntu	huh	02:34
billybigrigger	if you would have read that Grub 2 Recovery link i pointed you to	02:34
billybigrigger	you would know where to find the latest livecd	02:34
ubuntu	ok	02:34
billybigrigger	Recover Grub 2 via LiveCD	02:34
billybigrigger	*	02:34
billybigrigger	First, grab a copy of the latest Ubuntu LiveCD and boot it.	02:34
billybigrigger	* Open a terminal and type	02:34
billybigrigger	http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download	02:34
billybigrigger	the link is on the first line	02:34
ubuntu	billybigrigger: so 9.04 uses grub2	02:35
billybigrigger	no	02:35
billybigrigger	9.10	02:35
billybigrigger	what version of ubuntu do you have installed?	02:35
ubuntu	on that link i can only download 9.04live cd	02:36
ubuntu	i was on karamic	02:36
billybigrigger	yeah	02:36
billybigrigger	that is the latest released livecd	02:36
ubuntu	but is shows as 9.04	02:36
ubuntu	so i can download it	02:36
billybigrigger	yes	02:37
ubuntu	and it will work	02:37
ubuntu	ok i will try that	02:37
ubuntu	thanks alot	02:37
billybigrigger	you might have better luck asking in #grub for recovering grub legacy	02:37
billybigrigger	like i said its not supported anymore	02:37
ubuntu	hmm	02:38
virtuald	karmic cd's are here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-live/current/	02:39
billybigrigger	you don't need a karmic livecd to recover grub	02:39
billybigrigger	i suggested a stable release for the simple fact that he might run into more problems with karmic dailies	02:39
virtuald	ok	02:40
virtuald	but he's running karmic	02:40
billybigrigger	yeah	02:40
billybigrigger	but the dailies are hit and miss	02:41
billybigrigger	one day they work the other they don't	02:41
billybigrigger	doesn't matter what his OS he is running, he's only trying to recover grub	02:41
ubuntu	true	02:44
billybigrigger	have you tried google yet?	02:44
billybigrigger	recover grub via ubuntu livecd	02:44
ubuntu	isnt there anyway to compile grub2 on my livecd	02:44
billybigrigger	first hit on google	02:45
ubuntu	my bandwind is notat all good will take me ages to get the live cd downloaded	02:45
billybigrigger	https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows	02:45
billybigrigger	get karmic back running	02:45
billybigrigger	then refer to the wiki page for upgrading from grub legacy to grub 2 via ....	02:45
billybigrigger	!grub2	02:45
ubottu	GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2	02:45
ubuntu	billybigrigger: so is it possible to recover over normal grub	02:47
billybigrigger	?	02:48
billybigrigger	i think your confusing yourself	02:48
billybigrigger	billybigrigger>https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows	02:48
billybigrigger	read it, do it	02:48
ubuntu	i mean can i recover my grub with the currnt kubuntu 7.04	02:48
billybigrigger	tes	02:48
billybigrigger	yes	02:48
ubuntu	but i cant mount a partition	02:48
billybigrigger	why	02:48
ubuntu	mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1,	02:49
ubuntu	missing codepage or helper program, or other error	02:49
ubuntu	In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try	02:49
ubuntu	dmesg \| tail or so	02:49
billybigrigger	!pastebin	02:49
ubottu	pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com \| To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin \| !pastebinit to paste directly from command line \| Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic	02:49
ubuntu	sorry	02:49
billybigrigger	try reading the error	02:49
billybigrigger	what command are you trying to pass?	02:50
ubuntu	billybigrigger: 931.340000] EXT3-fs: sda2: couldn't mount because of unsupported optional fea tures (240).	02:50
ubuntu	sudo mount /dev/sda1 realroot/	02:50
hggdh	you meant /realroot ?	02:51
billybigrigger	what is realroot?	02:51
ubuntu	reaot mount pointolr	02:51
hggdh	I guess -- and I stress the guess -- a mountpoint	02:51
ubuntu	yes	02:51
ubuntu	its a mountpoint	02:51
hggdh	and does the realroot directory exist?	02:52
billybigrigger	https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows	02:52
billybigrigger	nuff said	02:52
yoasif	mysql-server is currently broken?	02:55
billybigrigger	caused by moving 5.0 to 5.1?	02:56
billybigrigger	yoasif: haven't checked the lists, but that was the action a few days ago	02:56
billybigrigger	probably could expect breakage from it	02:56
yoasif	ouch	02:56
=== ryanakca is now known as Guest66699
=== Guest66699 is now known as ryanakca
spO	do any of you know how to compile fglrx/ati drivers for a custom ubuntu kernel (after you install karmic package) ?	03:32
BluesKaj	spO, the default ati driver is still installed	03:37
BluesKaj	?	03:37
luckyone	hello all	04:05
luckyone	was wondering if anyone could help point me at some good information about karmic unr, particularly for Acer Aspire One	04:06
luckyone	I need to figure out why my wireless quit working after the -3 kernel, because now I don't even have that as a boot option in grub...	04:07
EagleScreen	luckyone: which card model?	04:10
luckyone	Acer Aspire One KAV10 with Atheros AR5BXB63	04:14
EagleScreen	sorry i don't know Atheros cards	04:15
luckyone	no worries	04:15
IndyGunFreak	luckyone: is that how lspci identifies it?	04:25
luckyone	yeah, it is weird... the wireless card can see networks, it network-manager just can't connect to anything	04:25
luckyone	AR5001	04:26
IndyGunFreak	hmm	04:26
IndyGunFreak	luckyone: are you connecting to a network that requires a password?	04:26
IndyGunFreak	ie.. wep or wpa	04:26
luckyone	searching wpa2	04:27
=== ubuntu is now known as snake_187
luckyone	network manager won't even connect with a wired connection though	04:27
IndyGunFreak	oh.	04:27
IndyGunFreak	now thats odd	04:27
luckyone	this will make it tough to take updates...	04:27
hggdh	oh boy. whats your version of apparmor?	04:28
luckyone	how do I see version from cli?	04:29
hggdh	dpkg -l apparmor\*	04:29
luckyone	2.3.1+1403	04:30
luckyone	ubuntu9	04:30
hggdh	OK. so it is not the issue we had last week	04:30
luckyone	yeah, this quit working after -3	04:30
bjsnider	i think there are some hardware issues because of the switch from hal to devicekit right now	04:32
luckyone	yeah, I need to figure out a workaround so I can take updates in the meantime	04:33
luckyone	probably just need to figure out how to get grub to let me load a previous kernel	04:34
IndyGunFreak	luckyone: i think you're right, cuz i've had some issues w/ my atheros device to(242x)	04:34
luckyone	did you find a way to fix it?	04:35
luckyone	also sucks because I can't automagically add something to launchpad	04:35
IndyGunFreak	luckyone: well, no id idn't.. oddly enough, i connected to my network	04:36
IndyGunFreak	but it would not let me online	04:36
luckyone	[drm:drm_wait_vblank] ERROR failed to acquire vblank counter, -22	04:37
luckyone	lots of those	04:37
nhasian	! Gnome-disk-utility	04:45
ubottu	Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)	04:45
nhasian	how can i start Gnome-disk-utility ?	04:45
billybigrigger	palimpsest	04:53
billybigrigger	nhasian: run the command 'palimpsest'	04:54
nhasian	nice. is that not in the system menu anywhere?	04:55
nhasian	I'll never remember the command to launch it. i cant even pronounce it.	04:55
billybigrigger	dunno	04:57
billybigrigger	not in ubuntu at the moment	04:57
billybigrigger	haven't updated yet today either	04:57
billybigrigger	been awake since 6:30am, its 10pm now, i've been compiling linux from scratch all day :P	04:57
nhasian	nice	04:58
billybigrigger	and still don't have a usable system haha	04:58
nhasian	doh!	04:58
billybigrigger	building a linux system from scratch sucks! haha	04:58
billybigrigger	now i know why the developed package managers :P	04:59
nhasian	okay here's a question. how can i tell if a package like gnome-disk-utility for example comes by default with ubuntu or if it was installed by the user afterwards?	05:00
billybigrigger	honestly, no idea	05:00
billybigrigger	i imagine you could look on packages.ubuntu.com and look at the package ubuntu-desktop?	05:00
nhasian	i checked synaptic package manager and looked at the package's properties. it says Priority = Optional but i dont know if thats the best way to check	05:01
nhasian	yeah it says gparted is also optional but i know that it comes standard with ubuntu	05:02
=== zj3t3mju is now known as GirlCrab
oldude67	anyone know if they have any of the bugs worked out of pulseaudio yetA?	05:45
oldude67	im running the intel ICH5 onboard sound and with pulse audio running i have nothing but static coming out of my speakers even when im not listening to anything,so i uninstalled it.	05:48
oldude67	was just wondering if it was any better yet?	05:48
x1250	nhasian, I guess you can use $ aptitude why yourpackage, and try to build your conclusions from there.	05:53
x1250	also, you can check the dpkg logs and aptitude log in /var/log	05:56
=== GirlCrab is now known as GirlCrab\|Lunch
DanaG	oh hey, any of you using the grub2 gfxboot thingy?	06:11
DanaG	It's not in official repos.	06:12
billybigrigger	gfxmenu?	06:12
billybigrigger	DanaG: http://grub.gibibit.com/	06:12
billybigrigger	???	06:12
billybigrigger	is that what your talking about?	06:12
DanaG	yeah.	06:13
billybigrigger	did it make it to grub svn?	06:13
billybigrigger	i emailed colin bennet about that and he didn't know when it would be ready, that was a few weeks ago though	06:14
DanaG	I'm using the ppa from here.	06:14
DanaG	http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7767489	06:14
DanaG	it's glitchy -- redraws constantly, and rather horridly slowly, at that.	06:14
=== GirlCrab\|Lunch is now known as zj3t3mju
billybigrigger	hmm	06:15
billybigrigger	well no, im not using it to answer your question :)	06:15
billybigrigger	honestly haven't been booted into ubuntu since frida	06:15
billybigrigger	friday	06:16
DanaG	I think I'll just switch back to no gfxmenu.	06:16
billybigrigger	been screwing around with linuxfromscratch haha	06:16
alteregoa	yeah its a bummer	06:16
DanaG	hmm, anyone know much about what xsplash is supposed to do?	06:18
DanaG	For me, it makes the login window rather unpleasant:	06:18
alteregoa	its suppoed to be confusing	06:18
DanaG	When xorg starts, I see this:	06:19
DanaG	flicker (xsplash default-wallpaper) (gdm with custom wallpaper)	06:19
alteregoa	like almost any X program on linux, no common standards and that makes it like kinder surprise	06:19
DanaG	And then once I log in, I see this:	06:19
DanaG	(gdm custom wallpaper) (xsplash default-wallpaper) (gdm custom wallpaper) (my wallpaper).	06:19
DanaG	so it flicks back to default wallpaper multiple times. Irritating.	06:19
DanaG	And really ugly.	06:19
* billybigrigger reminds all we're still in A3 :P		06:20
alteregoa	i still wait until those linux stuff maybe 2.8.X kernel, the config is written into a single xml file	06:20
alteregoa	instead of searching the whole crap over the entire disk	06:21
alteregoa	thats linux from scratch	06:22
* DanaG prefers to tweak from the bottom up, not from the top down.		06:23
* ikonia points to the topic		06:24
DanaG	hmm, though "linux from scratch" may describe pretty well what I'm doing with a Microblaze cpu on an fpga.	06:24
DanaG	er	06:24
DanaG	sorry, I swapped my words.	06:24
* DanaG prefers to tweak from the _top down_.		06:24
DanaG	=P I said that entirely backwards last time.	06:24
alteregoa	are you doing some FFT calculations danag?	06:27
ikonia	gents - #ubuntu+1 is for 9.10 discussion please.	06:27
DanaG	well, the xsplash thing, at least, was on topic.	06:28
billybigrigger	and grub's gfxmenu	06:28
DanaG	What is it actually supposed to do, besides making invalid assumptions about wallpaper?	06:28
billybigrigger	:P	06:28
alteregoa	ok sorry i destroyed the Mohammic Karma of Ubuntu with my offtopic speech	06:29
ikonia	alteregoa: no need to be silly, it is a polite request	06:29
spO	do any of you know how to compile fglrx/ati drivers for a custom ubuntu kernel? (ie, ati doesn't support 2.6.31 , but it is supposed to support 2.6.30	06:36
DanaG	oh yeah, there's a PPA for that.	06:36
billybigrigger	spO: wait for a patch?	06:36
billybigrigger	there ya go :P	06:36
DanaG	"dinxter"	06:37
DanaG	https://launchpad.net/~dinxter/+archive/ppa	06:37
spO	thanks danag	06:42
spO	danag, how exactly do i download that after i add that to my sources.list and update apt-get ?	06:47
spO	brb, i am going to pick up a perscription	06:48
DanaG	oh yeah, actually, now there's a nifty toolL	06:51
DanaG	sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ppa_name/path_under_that	06:51
DanaG	like ppa:dinxter	06:51
=== zj3t3mju is now known as NotGirl\|Edit
spO	danag, that package requires generic version of any kernel, right?	07:44
spO	for custom kernels , it is basically very difficult if not impossible to get ati /proprietary drivers installed?	07:44
Boohbah	spO: shouldn't be	07:45
spO	z02325.33321	07:53
spO	err, sorry	07:54
spO	i don't have add-apt-repository	08:11
alteregoa	128 rops and 300GB/s bandwidth	08:22
lufis	Just installed karmic alpha 3 and installed all the updates. Now grub won't boot any of the kernel entries. I get an error that goes something like: "true: no such valid parameter"	09:09
xcdfgkjhgcv	lufis: And your Wi-Fi is also dodgy:?	09:30
voltagex	hi, the livecd is only detecting one of two hard drives	10:06
richardcavell	voltagex: there have been many updates to Karmic since your alpha 3 live CD	10:07
voltagex	crap, 700mb quota wasted then	10:07
voltagex	what's the easiest way to test karmic then?	10:07
richardcavell	voltagex: can you install from the live CD?	10:08
richardcavell	then download updates	10:08
voltagex	first drive is full	10:08
richardcavell	you'll need to download a few hundred megs of updates	10:08
voltagex	second drive had a spare partition	10:08
voltagex	should be /dev/sdc	10:09
richardcavell	voltagex: Just to state the obvious, have you looked in the Places menu for it?	10:09
voltagex	places? the K menu?	10:09
richardcavell	The menu that is second	10:10
richardcavell	Applications, Places, System	10:10
richardcavell	on your desktop	10:10
voltagex	dolphin only lists one drive	10:10
richardcavell	I'm just saying - is it in your Places menu?	10:10
voltagex	no.	10:10
voltagex	:)	10:10
richardcavell	I mean, I have another partition that is not mounted at boot but it's in the Places meu	10:10
richardcavell	menu	10:10
voltagex	nope, no dice	10:11
richardcavell	what filesystem is the partition?	10:11
voltagex	unformatted, but the entire drive is missing	10:13
voltagex	there's a 950GB NTFS partition, and a 50gb partition that was meant for this, but both are not showing	10:13
dupondje	Could somebody try to open https://security-shell.ws/showthread.php?t=15891&page=2 in firefox ?	10:16
richardcavell	dupondje: crash	10:16
richardcavell	voltagex: I dunno. It's not terribly surprising, though	10:17
dupondje	seems like something buggy in firefox :p	10:17
richardcavell	dupondje: yep	10:17
richardcavell	dupondje: report it and say it's confirmed	10:17
richardcavell	(One of the reasons why I'm not happy about the move to 3.5)	10:17
richardcavell	dupondje: I'm reporting it	10:18
dupondje	k	10:18
dupondje	:)	10:18
richardcavell	dupondje: which FF are you using?	10:18
dupondje	3.5	10:18
voltagex	richardcavell: is there a daily iso download?	10:19
richardcavell	voltagex: nope	10:19
richardcavell	voltagex: at least, not an official one	10:19
richardcavell	dupondje: crashes on 3.0.13 for me	10:20
dupondje	yea indeed, was just testing that also :P	10:20
richardcavell	dupondje: what's the exact version number you're using? I'll report both	10:20
dupondje	ii firefox-3.0 3.0.13+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 safe and easy web browser from Mozilla	10:20
dupondje	ii firefox-3.0-branding 3.0.13+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 Package that ships the firefox branding	10:20
dupondje	ii firefox-3.5 3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2 safe and easy web browser from Mozilla	10:20
richardcavell	okay	10:20
dupondje	bug # ? ;)	10:25
richardcavell	mate, my Net's slow	10:26
dupondje	get fiber !	10:26
dupondje	:)	10:26
richardcavell	yeah I know	10:27
richardcavell	dupondje: are you on 32 or 64-bit?	10:29
dupondje	64	10:30
richardcavell	dupondje: me too	10:31
Ian_	it doesn't crash for me	10:31
dupondje	32bit ?	10:31
Ian_	yes	10:31
richardcavell	have you applied all updates, dupondje ?	10:31
richardcavell	Ian_: what version of FF are you using?	10:32
dupondje	richardcavell: yep, all updates	10:32
Ian_	icorne@unicorne:~$ apt-cache policy firefox	10:32
Ian_	firefox: Installed: 3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2 Candidate: 3.5.2+nobinonly-0ubuntu2	10:32
richardcavell	okay almost done	10:33
richardcavell	seems like a Karmic bug	10:33
richardcavell	bug 412418	10:33
Ian_	karmic 64 bit then	10:33
ubottu	Launchpad bug 412418 in firefox-3.0 "Broken website" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412418	10:33
Ian_	because i'm on karmic and don't have it :)	10:33
richardcavell	Ian_: yeah	10:34
richardcavell	Ian_: and dupondje : add stuff to my bug report if you like	10:34
richardcavell	I can't figure out how to get to the broken website feature since the menu item has been disabled, while still collecting debug info	10:35
dupondje	richardcavell: added firefox-3.5 to package list	10:35
richardcavell	yep	10:35
richardcavell	looks good	10:38
xcdfgkjhgcv	How dodgy is it to upgrade from GRUB to GRUB2?	10:47
richardcavell	xcdfgkjhgcv: not dodgy	10:48
richardcavell	works fine	10:48
xcdfgkjhgcv	richardcavell: What benefits would I get from switching?	10:48
richardcavell	xcdfgkjhgcv: if it ain't broke don't fix it	10:49
xcdfgkjhgcv	richardcavell: Unless you want to make it better.	10:49
xcdfgkjhgcv	richardcavell: Debian Etch wasn't broken for me.	10:49
Ian_	ext4 support?	10:49
richardcavell	GRUB2 is way more sophisticated	10:49
richardcavell	it supports my OS X too	10:49
xcdfgkjhgcv	I only have one OS.	10:49
xcdfgkjhgcv	And that's Ubuntu.	10:50
xcdfgkjhgcv	Karmic fixed the Wi-Fi problems I had with Jaunty. :D	11:22
xcdfgkjhgcv	Bittorrent was unusable. :(	11:22
xcdfgkjhgcv	And Karmic will fix my Intel performance problems too I think. :)	11:23
Ian_	i hope it will	11:23
ikonia	that's good news	11:23
xcdfgkjhgcv	Ian_: Same. I want to do some 3D gaming on my Eee PC.	11:23
xcdfgkjhgcv	FFS I have no clean socks.	11:23
suit	I got such a borderline weird problem. Upon booting, all my sound channels are muted. So, I crank them up again. If I use VLC to watch something it immediately turns the sys-volume down again (NOT the internal VLC volume). If I then bother to turn every channel up again via alsamixer they automatically drop down to zero before a sound can be uttered. With Kaffeine, the same happens but if I turn the volume up again after having started to play a	11:24
Ian_	:)	11:24
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: Probably stupid, buggy Pulseaudio.	11:24
xcdfgkjhgcv	I like Pulseaudio but I wish it didn't have so many problems.	11:25
xcdfgkjhgcv	I want a really polished, stable Pulseaudio by 10.04 LTS	11:25
dupondje	seems like the pulseaudio plugins of some apps are causing those things also	11:25
dupondje	so its not really only a pulseaudio problem itself :(	11:25
xcdfgkjhgcv	Linux has always been funny with my motherboard sound.	11:26
suit	Alright..hmm.. Does aptitude provide any upgrade logs? I update Karmic pretty regularly and the problem started pretty much overnight.	11:28
dupondje	grr this is annoying, how can u add the things apport generates to a EXISTING bug ?	11:28
dupondje	:s	11:28
xcdfgkjhgcv	dupondje: If it's annoying, file a bug report about it.	11:29
dupondje	maby its possible but I don't know how :)	11:29
suit	Got it.	11:30
xcdfgkjhgcv	dupondje: man apport	11:30
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: What was it?	11:30
suit	/var/log/aptitude	11:31
suit	or apt-get if you use that, i suppose	11:31
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: Oh, I thought you identified the problem.	11:31
suit	I might have something there, too. vlc-plugin-pulse is not installed. Would've thought that if Karmic installed vlc out of it's repos that would be a dependency.	11:33
suit	Weirdly enough, vlc worked for a week without any problems whatsoever without it.	11:33
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: Maybe you weren't using Pulseaudio?	11:34
apw	dupondje, apport-collect <bug number>	11:39
xcdfgkjhgcv	FFS I wish Samba didn't hate me.	11:39
dupondje	apw: launchpadlib.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized	11:55
dupondje	fixed now :) removed the autorization	11:57
suit	xcdfgkjhgcv: I just descended into the abyss of sound configuration and figured I really wasn't using PulseAudio but it was still my preferred output device.	11:59
richardcavell	Is anyone else getting audio loss? I am not getting about half of my sounds	12:02
dupondje	richardcavell: check my last comment on the bug	12:04
dupondje	its strange	12:04
richardcavell	dupondje: which bug?	12:04
richardcavell	dupondje: I've been napping	12:05
richardcavell	dupondje: And by the way, you can add debug stuff to any bug just by running apport bugnumber from the Terminal	12:05
dupondje	https://launchpad.net/bugs/412418	12:05
ubottu	Launchpad bug 412418 in firefox-3.5 "Broken website" [Undecided,Confirmed]	12:05
richardcavell	I mean apport-collect	12:05
dupondje	did that now :)	12:06
dupondje	but check last comment, seems something weird	12:06
richardcavell	dupondje: yeah,	12:06
richardcavell	that's weird	12:06
richardcavell	can't explain that	12:07
cdE\|Woozy	does anyone know why I can't set constrain_y via ccsm -> window management -> move window? If I enable the checkbox, it disables again right away without telling me why	12:07
dupondje	it works for you also when u run it directly ?	12:08
richardcavell	dupondje: hang on	12:08
richardcavell	I'm conducting some experiments	12:10
richardcavell	dupondje: gee, sometimes it crashes and sometimes it doesn't	12:12
dupondje	check comment, doesn't work from command line neither	12:12
richardcavell	I'm going to try it opening from right mouse click: https://security-shell.ws/showthread.php?t=15891&page=2	12:12
dupondje	but if u do firefox-3.5 https://security-shell.ws/showthread.php?t=15891&page=2%27	12:12
dupondje	it cuts off the &page=2 :p	12:12
dupondje	but gtg now	12:13
dupondje	:)	12:13
richardcavell	ok	12:13
richardcavell	I'm unable to reliably reproduce when it crashes and when it doesn't	12:14
richardcavell	it just crashes sometimes	12:14
richardcavell	it just did then	12:14
suit	I'm a happy camper now. Everything works again. Wheeeee.	12:24
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: I can't get Samba to work. :(	12:25
suit	I'm sorry mate. Don't think I can help you there	12:26
suit	Never used it and not even really sure what it's for	12:26
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: File sharing over the network.	12:26
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: Do you know what a NAS is?	12:27
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: maybe it would help to explain what the actual problem is that you encounter and someone might be able to help you	12:27
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: The problem is that my computers can't share files witth each other.	12:28
suit	xcdfgkjhgcv: Let's put it like that...when you said 'Nas' i first thought of the rapper. :D	12:28
xcdfgkjhgcv	suit: Rap is crap.	12:28
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: that does not help much really with what the problem is	12:30
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: you need to explain it a bit more....	12:30
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: I don't really know what the problem is.	12:30
suit	Doesn't Samba have some kind of verbose output option?	12:32
suit	A debugging mode, mayhaps?	12:32
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: o.O	12:32
suit	Check if /var/log/samba exists	12:32
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: ok...well maybe you can check: Is the machine seeing the shares? Is samba sharing correctly? Is something blocking the shares? Can you access them using smb-client locally? etc	12:33
suit	And there's https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpSamba	12:33
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: stuff like that	12:33
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.	12:35
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: I've set ufw to limit Samba.	12:35
scizzo-	well then comes the next set of questions: You can mount it and so on but after a while the connection is lost? Sometimes it shows up or it shows up but you can't mount them?	12:37
suit	God damn it I love this community.	12:37
suit	Had to get that out quickly.	12:37
suit	Carry on.	12:37
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: since the frase: "Its not working." is not very explanatory.....	12:38
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: I can mount one of my machines but not the other.	12:38
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: right so now we are starting to get somewhere...	12:38
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: you can mount one of the linux machines sharing with samba but not the other to another win/mac machine?	12:39
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: I can mount the machine running Karmic with my Jaunty machine but can't do it the other way around.	12:39
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: hold on	12:40
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: you are using samba for linux sharing?	12:40
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: not really the best thing to be honest but whatever rocks your boat	12:40
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: It's what Ubuntu likes to make me use.	12:40
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: is the logfiles telling you anything in /var/log/ ?	12:41
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: Yes.	12:41
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: I believe there is a few samba logs there...if not also check the command dmesg	12:41
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: alright....so is there any errors when you try mounting the shares?	12:41
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: [79439.850257] [UFW LIMIT BLOCK] IN=ra0 OUT= MAC=ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:00:09:5b:2f:df:96:08:00 SRC=192.168.1.66 DST=192.168.1.255 LEN=78 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=0 DF PROTO=UDP SPT=49497 DPT=137 LEN=58	12:42
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: and dmesg says nothing?	12:44
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: That was dmesg.	12:44
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: its a command	12:44
xcdfgkjhgcv	Hold on, I'll pastebin it.	12:45
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: no no no	12:45
xcdfgkjhgcv	http://pastebin.com/m235185d0	12:45
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: not everything	12:45
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: It isn't everything.	12:45
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: Just the relevant stuff.	12:45
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: ok then.....so...if I understand this right....the main problem is that you can't mount the jaunty shares on the karmic machine right?	12:47
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: Correct.	12:47
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: Also, my Nautilus browsing of Samba is on and off.	12:47
xcdfgkjhgcv	Something is definitely pear shaped.	12:47
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: right...so then that could be the first thing you could say about the problem.... ;)	12:48
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: instead of "its not working"	12:48
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: Apologies.	12:48
scizzo-	hehe	12:49
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: Do you think UFW is the problem?	12:49
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: not sure yet	12:49
xcdfgkjhgcv	scizzo-: I think it might be two separate problems I have.	12:50
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: still checking a little	12:50
xcdfgkjhgcv	I'll try disabling UFW and see what happens.	12:50
alankila_	There's something wrong with gconfd-2, it's constantly using about 25 % of CPU. It might correlate with enabling compiz. (I no longer can properly start it from the Appearance preferences, but I can start it from terminal just fine.)	12:50
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: what smbclient version do you have?	12:51
xcdfgkjhgcv	alankila_: Confirmed on my PC.	12:51
xcdfgkjhgcv	alankila_: File a bug report.	12:51
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: hmmm can you mount but get the filesystem as read only?	12:53
maxb	So, gnome-disk-utility is telling me that one of my disks has bad sectors, in the notification area	12:53
maxb	How do I acknowledge this and tell it to stop showing me a notification icon?	12:53
xcdfgkjhgcv	Odd. Disabling UFW on the Karmic machine allows me to mount Jaunty shares.	12:53
xcdfgkjhgcv	maxb: Same problem here.	12:53
* maxb mutters about half-baked apps		12:54
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: its not odd really	12:56
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: I might be wrong but if ufw is blocking the access then its not odd	12:58
scizzo-	xcdfgkjhgcv: I just did a quick search to see if others have had samba +ufw problems and it seems there has been a few but most old stuff	12:59
xcdfgkjhgcv	I'll try changing UFW from limit to allow for Samba.	13:02
xcdfgkjhgcv	Hmmm that didn't work.	13:04
xcdfgkjhgcv	See? Samba hates me.	13:04
alankila_	ok, the problem with cpu load is that metacity process is still running, and probably hammers the gconfd somehow which then takes the cpu hit	13:09
alankila_	there's already a bug about that.	13:09
amortvigil_	hello	14:05
xcdfgkjhgcv	amortvigil_: Greetings.	14:07
amortvigil_	xcdfgkjhgcv: nice name :)	14:07
xcdfgkjhgcv	amortvigil_: Why thank you.	14:08
amortvigil_	xcdfgkjhgcv: what is the most hard bugs at the moment?	14:08
amortvigil_	xcdfgkjhgcv: because it looks like chaos to mee :P	14:08
xcdfgkjhgcv	amortvigil_: I can't get Samba to work.	14:10
xcdfgkjhgcv	Pulseaudio is buggy as hell.	14:10
amortvigil_	hum hum	14:10
xcdfgkjhgcv	The kernel thinks I have an imaginary floppy drive.	14:11
xcdfgkjhgcv	I can't hide the icons on my desktop.	14:11
amortvigil_	xcdfgkjhgcv: there is still alot to be fixed :P	14:11
Q-FUNK	howdy! regarding Bug #409764 is there still time to implement this?	14:23
ubottu	Launchpad bug 409764 in language-support-writing-fi "please downgrade 'mozvoikko' to Recommends" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409764	14:23
xcdfgkjhgcv	I'd like to see file operations and Firefox downloads implemented into notify-osd	14:29
xcdfgkjhgcv	I wasn't too keen on notify-osd at first.	14:30
gbs-wes	my headphones don't work in karmic :( nor does my bruetoof mouse. also, whenever i plug into the wall, it immediately tells me that my battery is fully charged because its currently FULL OF FAILURE	14:31
Ian_	gbs-wes: my headphones don't work either	14:35
gbs-wes	i think they'll work if you have them plugged in at boot-time... but haven't tested yet	14:35
grandemahatma	here I am	14:35
grandemahatma	gbs-wes: hello	14:35
grandemahatma	hallo I'm running Ubuntu 8.10 and I'd need python-central 0.6.11... how can I install it?	14:36
gbs-wes	hey.. i just told you to come here because someone else was bound to. this is where you discuss anything karmic	14:36
gbs-wes	oh. 8.10. oops.	14:36
Ian_	grandemahatma: this is for ubunt 9.10	14:36
Ian_	:)	14:36
grandemahatma	I see... sorry	14:36
gbs-wes	sorry	14:36
Ian_	lol	14:36
gbs-wes	:\	14:36
Ian_	was gerr	14:37
Ian_	he should just apt-get it	14:37
Ian_	that's the current version	14:37
mac_v	hi... why does Palimpsest Disk Utility , always show my disks as "Having bad sectors" ? but the fsck returns no errors ?	15:12
bjsnider	is it really wise to name the executable for that app "palimpsest"?	15:13
mac_v	bjsnider: any thoughts on my error?	15:14
bjsnider	i'd say it's a bug in palimpsest. i would report it	15:15
mac_v	ok.	15:15
=== jMyles_ is now known as jMyles
=== yacc__ is now known as yacc
mac_v	does any one know how to fix "Reallocated Sector Count"	15:59
amortvigil_	mac_v: yes, there is even a hotfix, use a blowtorch on your old pc	16:00
amortvigil_	and buy a new one	16:00
amortvigil_	sorrie joke	16:00
mac_v	amortvigil_: i just have 3 sectors , while my threshold is 50!	16:00
amortvigil_	mac_v: maybe you schould chckfs ?	16:01
mac_v	amortvigil_: it did fsck and it doesn report any errors	16:01
bjsnider	mac_v, why is anything wrong then?	16:23
natewiebe13	anyone installed xsplash yet?	16:31
mac_v	bjsnider: nope... nothing is wrong , but the stupid palimpset says by disk is failing > Bug #412152	16:37
ubottu	Launchpad bug 412152 in gnome-disk-utility "gnome-disk-utility nags me too much that my disk is failing" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412152	16:37
mac_v	natewiebe13: i'v installed xsplash	16:37
natewiebe13	mac_v: what did it change? anything yet?	16:38
mac_v	natewiebe13: yup , it changes the boot behavior a bit , still needs polish	16:39
natewiebe13	okay	16:40
mac_v	it as of now , only shows the default wallpaper , in transitions , but should actually use the user's wallpaper	16:40
natewiebe13	anyone here play tf2?	17:09
mac_v	natewiebe13: whats tf2?	17:15
natewiebe13	team fortress 2	17:15
natewiebe13	best multiplayer fps ever made	17:15
natewiebe13	mac_v: http://www.tf2.com	17:17
mac_v	;)	17:17
kklimonda	natewiebe13: does it have a linux client? ;)	17:19
kklimonda	j/k	17:19
natewiebe13	wish it did, im stuck with vista for it	17:19
natewiebe13	(thumbs down)	17:19
natewiebe13	they have a linux server, but that doesnt help me much	17:20
bjsnider	don't trash the excellent vista operating system	17:20
spO	Do any of you know how to compile ati/fglrx for custom ubuntu kernels?	17:20
natewiebe13	bjsnider: windows is the worst thing created by man	17:21
bjsnider	what about nuclear weapons?	17:21
natewiebe13	if i had to choose, i think id take the nukes	17:21
natewiebe13	but then i couldnt play tf2 as smoothly.. wine just doesnt cut it in this case	17:22
natewiebe13	anyone know anything about deluge?	17:52
xcdfgkjhgcv	I would make the switch from Pidgin to Empathy is Facebook chat and other useful plugins were supported.	18:01
crdlb	xcdfgkjhgcv: telepathy-haze should allow empathy to support any protocol pidgin does	18:03
xcdfgkjhgcv	crdlb: I meant without lots of crazy hacks.	18:03
crdlb	it's not that crazy	18:04
kklimonda	any idea why do I hear sound when I click buttons in nautlius?	18:05
kklimonda	it's disabled in sound preferences	18:05
xcdfgkjhgcv	kklimonda: I'm unable to reproduce.	18:06
crdlb	kklimonda: but not in other gtk apps? (firefox doesn't count)	18:06
xcdfgkjhgcv	Hmmmm I probably should say that ever again.	18:06
xcdfgkjhgcv	"I'm unable to reproduce" LOL	18:06
kklimonda	:)	18:07
kklimonda	crdlb: no - I don't think so	18:07
kklimonda	I wonder if it's because nautilus wasn't restarted after I had a crash of gnome-settings-daemon	18:08
kklimonda	yeah, seems like it	18:08
xcdfgkjhgcv	WTF I just got a ridiculous error message from Synaptic.	18:11
xcdfgkjhgcv	"The volume "Filesysteem root" has only 8.05.5 MB disk space remaining."	18:11
xcdfgkjhgcv	ONLY?	18:11
xcdfgkjhgcv	That's plenty, stupid software.	18:11
crdlb	8.05.5?	18:12
xcdfgkjhgcv	805.5 sorry	18:12
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: I believe there is a bug report with that number somewhere	18:12
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: and 805mb isn't too much free space	18:15
xcdfgkjhgcv	kklimonda: It's enough to install Gnome and KDE on.	18:16
xcdfgkjhgcv	And lots of other stuff.	18:16
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: kubuntu-desktop pulls over 501MB of dependencies here	18:16
xcdfgkjhgcv	kklimonda: Exactly!	18:17
xcdfgkjhgcv	I could install a whole other DE and software suite.	18:17
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: and 800MB isn't enough for full system upgrade	18:17
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: how big is your root partition?	18:17
xcdfgkjhgcv	kklimonda: 16GB roughly	18:17
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: also some space (about 5%) is reserved for root - maybe it has something to do with it? Linux is behaving really weird when there is no free space for /tmp so maybe synaptic is just protecting you from yourself? :)	18:20
xcdfgkjhgcv	kklimonda: My /tmp is in tmpfs	18:21
xcdfgkjhgcv	Hmmm that's a good point; I need to check that my tmpfs is still working since the upgrade to Karmic.	18:21
xcdfgkjhgcv	Yeppers.	18:21
alankila_	by the way, do you guys routinely use ramzswap? I have discovered that this stuff is so handy that there's no point to have real swap any more. Generally this frees extra space for root partition as well if you start to run out...	18:22
xcdfgkjhgcv	/tmp in tmpfs for security reasons.	18:22
xcdfgkjhgcv	alankila_: I don't use swap for security reasons.	18:22
lupine_85	cripes	18:24
lupine_85	what kind of compression ratio do you get on the RAM?	18:24
lupine_85	xcdfgkjhgcv, you realise RAM has a great many security issues too, right? :)	18:24
alankila_	I think it's something like 30 to 60 % depending on what goes there	18:24
lupine_85	at least you can encrypt your swap	18:24
lupine_85	alankila_, hmm, probably not worth me bothering with	18:25
xcdfgkjhgcv	lupine_85: Yes.	18:25
* lupine_85 doesn't use swap because he has 3GB RAM and is lazy		18:25
* xcdfgkjhgcv doesn't use swap because he has 1GB of RAM, integrated graphics, tmpfs used by /tmp and /var/tmp		18:25
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: you never ran out of ram?	18:26
alankila_	well I had to do something on a 1 GB system because I turned into a java programmer last year and I suddenly discovered that 1 GB wasn't enough to run eclipse, servlet container, ant builds, firefox, etc.	18:26
xcdfgkjhgcv	kklimonda: No idea.	18:26
xcdfgkjhgcv	I don't really use my PC for much other than Bittorrent and gaming.	18:26
alankila_	at first I swapped to usb disk because it's faster to swap to than memory, but now it's ramzswap and it extends the ram by about 500 MB I think	18:27
xcdfgkjhgcv	And Firefox and OpenOffice and Gnome.	18:27
lupine_85	alankila_, mm, Java is a pig	18:27
alankila_	err... faster to swap to than disk, of course	18:27
* lupine_85 would love to use eclipse but it doesn't play well with LTSP at all		18:27
lupine_85	so can't use it at work	18:27
jan____	hi :)	18:41
DanaG	"alsa-mixer.c: Your kernel driver is broken: it reports a volume range from 0.00 dB to 0.00 dB which makes no sense."	18:51
DanaG	=þ	18:51
=== ripps_ is now known as ripps
DanaG	sudo atftpd --no-fork	19:13
DanaG	Usage: tftpd [options] [directory]	19:13
DanaG	wtf... no maTTER what parameters I pass it, it just tells me the usage info, and quits.	19:13
natewiebe13	DanaG: the gdm didnt change much, did it?	19:21
DanaG	hmm, I'm not sure... I didn't get around to updating yesterday.	19:21
xcdfgkjhgcv	WTF? It's way different.	19:21
DanaG	Oh, and I'm still wrangling with tftp timing out.	19:21
natewiebe13	xcdfgkjhgcv: xsplash?	19:21
xcdfgkjhgcv	natewiebe13: What about it?	19:22
natewiebe13	is that what you're saying?	19:22
xcdfgkjhgcv	natewiebe13: GDM	19:22
natewiebe13	i know the gdm is different, but i meant that the last update (2.27.4-0ubuntu10) didnt change much, all they did from ubuntu9 to ubuntu10 was patch it for xsplash. i was asking if it made a difference	19:23
DanaG	ugh, update-manager "running" window is non-resizeable.	19:29
donspaulding	I've installed Jaunty, upgraded to Karmic, installed Windows 7 on another partition, and now I'm in a Jaunty LiveCD, how can I reinstall grub as my boot loader and have it dual boot both windows and karmic?	19:29
xcdfgkjhgcv	Where can I find changelog summaries for the latest updates?	19:31
xcdfgkjhgcv	They don't seem to be included in the packages themselves.	19:31
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: most packages should have /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog.gz	19:32
kklimonda	and changelog.Debian.gz	19:32
kklimonda	at least that was the idea but I have seen quite a lot of packages without it lately	19:33
xcdfgkjhgcv	Xsplash has just been updated from 0.3 to 0.4. What is new?	19:34
natewiebe13	donspaulding: look on google	19:34
xcdfgkjhgcv	donspaulding: There are lots of guides for that on Google.	19:34
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: in the case there is no changelog you can always browse vcs log	19:35
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xsplash-team/xsplash/trunk/changes/38?start_revid=38 for xsplash	19:35
natewiebe13	xcdfgkjhgcv: fallback timer i think	19:36
xcdfgkjhgcv	What is Xsplash?	19:36
natewiebe13	its taking over usplash	19:37
natewiebe13	the x session is going to start right after bios	19:37
xcdfgkjhgcv	So I can apt-get remove usplash now and it'll use Xsplash?	19:37
natewiebe13	there will be a fully graphical boot	19:37
natewiebe13	dont remove usplash	19:37
bjsnider	i don't know why it matters. if they achieve their boot time goals, it won't be onscreen for long	19:37
kklimonda	natewiebe13: didn't fedora try to go this way and decided to switch to plymouth?	19:37
natewiebe13	ya	19:38
kklimonda	I remember that they previous splash, although pretty, was launching way too late too be useful..	19:38
natewiebe13	xcdfgkjhgcv: when usplash gets removed, it will be removed automatically from update manager	19:38
natewiebe13	xcdfgkjhgcv: right now it comes on right after usplash and after you login	19:39
natewiebe13	doesnt serve much purpose yet	19:39
xcdfgkjhgcv	I really don't give a fuck about bootup graphics; I just want it to be quick.	19:39
kklimonda	xcdfgkjhgcv: please, watch your language	19:39
natewiebe13	karmic is lagging for me at bootup	19:39
natewiebe13	jaunty is quicker for me than karmic, jaunty im at 17 seconds, and karmic im at 28 seconds	19:40
xcdfgkjhgcv	kklimonda: Command acknowledged.	19:40
hggdh	maybe obvious, but: anyone knows how to mute the bloody PC speaker?	19:41
xcdfgkjhgcv	hggdh: With alsamixer?	19:41
hggdh	:-) now, who would have said it would work?	19:43
kklimonda	hggdh: should it be already disabled?	19:43
kklimonda	hggdh: pcspkr module should be blacklisted	19:44
hggdh	let me check	19:44
xcdfgkjhgcv	PC speaker is ANNOYING	19:44
natewiebe13	blacklist it yourself if it isnt..	19:46
natewiebe13	/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf	19:47
natewiebe13	blacklist pcspkr	19:47
ripps	Does anybody know if it's possible to trigger indicator-applet from commandline. I'm trying to see If I can write a script to leave messages in it.	19:50
natewiebe13	anybody tried xsplash 0.4	19:51
natewiebe13	?	19:51
xcdfgkjhgcv	natewiebe13: I've just installed it.	19:51
natewiebe13	difference between 0.3 and 0.4? or was it just the fallback?	19:51
kklimonda	ripps: probably the "easiest" way would be to use python-indicate module?	19:51
natewiebe13	im gonna go see if it makes a visible difference	19:52
ripps	kklimonda: can python be used to write irssi scripts?	19:54
kklimonda	no, only perl	19:54
ripps	not that it matters, I don't have any skill writing in perl or python	19:54
DanaG	!find devfs_fs_kernel.h	19:57
ubottu	Package/file devfs_fs_kernel.h does not exist in karmic	19:57
DanaG	damn.	19:58
xcdfgkjhgcv	natewiebe13: Well?	19:59
xcdfgkjhgcv	natewiebe13: Report.	20:00
natewiebe13	makes no visible difference	20:01
DanaG	ah, I figured out my problem with that file. =þ	20:01
natewiebe13	but am i the only one that grub no longer shows up?	20:01
natewiebe13	with others that have xsplash.. does grub show up at boot?	20:05
DanaG	hmm, I'll try it after I reboot in a bit.	20:06
hggdh	yes, pcspkr is not loaded. I guess the sound is generated via alsa, emulating it. NOW I could disable it in alsamixer (which did not work two weeks ago)	20:13
slacker_nl	wow, whole bunch of kde updates <3	20:14
natewiebe13	DanaG: with printing 1 copy i get 1, 2 copies, i get 4, 3 copies i get 9	20:39
natewiebe13	i looks like its taking the number of copies and multiplying by itself	20:40
DanaG	xsplash is ugly. I get this when gdm starts:	20:46
DanaG	black screen with cursor. blinks to white and then default wallpaper. flips to black.	20:46
DanaG	flips to login screen with my wallpaper.	20:46
DanaG	so it goes through black about two times, actually.	20:46
DanaG	yeah, white brown black brown black loginscreen	20:47
natewiebe13	yup	20:48
natewiebe13	same	20:48
natewiebe13	DanaG: with printing 1 copy i get 1, 2 copies, i get 4, 3 copies i get 9, 4 copies i get 16	20:48
natewiebe13	it looks like its taking the number of copies and multiplying by itself	20:48
DanaG	wow, that's odd.	20:48
natewiebe13	ya.. thats after the update i did today	20:49
lufis	Having some trouble with sound on alpha 3. I get absolutely no playback anywhere	20:50
DanaG	Oh, and xsplash after login: gives brown, blue, brown, then delay, then real wallpaper.	20:50
DanaG	Blue is my specifically-set gdm wallpaper.	20:50
DanaG	In late evening, it's a dark grey instead.	20:50
DanaG	so yeah, xsplash is currently... hideous.	20:50
natewiebe13	yup	20:51
natewiebe13	agreed	20:51
natewiebe13	but any idea with the printing issue?	20:51
natewiebe13	or do you think its time for a bug report?	20:52
bjsnider	it's always time for a bug report	20:52
DanaG	Oh yeah, and this time I got a blink to WHITE on login, too... followed by a fade to my wallpaper.	20:52
natewiebe13	DanaG: ive had the white blink since i installed karmic	20:58
jdoggy	hello, I installed lvm encrypted ubuntu (with the alternate text installer), and when I upgraded from jaunty to karmic it won't boot any longer because the disk uuid has changed, can somebody tell me how I might go about fixing this?	21:06
jdoggy	I guess my question can be simplified to this: how do I mount/boot an encrypted lvm partition from the textbox/grub command line?	21:08
BUGabundo	hey	21:13
arand	hullo	21:14
guntbert	BUGabundo: was that vbox-headless package from you? someone asked for such a thing and my memory failed...	21:14
BUGabundo	nop not me	21:14
guntbert	BUGabundo: sorry, wrong channel :/	21:14
BUGabundo	np	21:15
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChild
=== PriceChild is now known as Pricey
mac_v	BUGabundo: hi... do you know how to fix "Reallocated Sector Count" ? i just have 3 sectors but the stupid palimpsest says by disk is failing > Bug #412152	21:34
ubottu	Launchpad bug 412152 in gnome-disk-utility "gnome-disk-utility nags me too much that my disk is failing" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412152	21:34
mac_v	my*	21:34
BUGabundo	oooppsss	21:35
BUGabundo	your disk is dyeing	21:35
BUGabundo	make backups an insert a new one	21:35
BUGabundo	that will not last longer	21:35
mac_v	BUGabundo: i just have 3 errors , but the threshold is 50!	21:36
BUGabundo	I'm sure it will grow	21:36
BUGabundo	once disk errors start	21:36
BUGabundo	they tend to grow very fast	21:36
mac_v	0.o	21:36
BUGabundo	to to unbalalced plates	21:36
spO	i have jaunty installed, how can i upgrade or install karmic?	21:38
spO	do i have to do a fresh install?	21:38
BUGabundo	sp0 $ update-manager -d	21:38
mac_v	BUGabundo: BTW , dyeing > means hair dye , or cloth coloring	21:38
DanaG	Yeah, palimpsest (HORRIBLE name, by the way) is alarmist.	21:38
BUGabundo	heheeehe	21:38
BUGabundo	killed	21:38
BUGabundo	not working	21:38
mac_v	hehe	21:38
spO	bug, is ther eosmething for console?	21:38
BUGabundo	spO: of course	21:39
DanaG	I installed the gnome-disk-utility package, and tried to run gnome-disk-utility. No such command.	21:39
DanaG	it's pa....limp........sest?	21:39
DanaG	whatthehellisthat?	21:39
DanaG	Apparently it's an 'erased parchment", or something.	21:39
mac_v	DanaG: too geeky!	21:39
bjsnider	i was complaining about that earlier	21:40
bjsnider	the name of the executable should not be palimpsest	21:40
BUGabundo	hey popey	21:40
DanaG	And it's alarmist.	21:40
spO	danag, you talked two days ago about installing fglrx to a 2.6.30 kernel, what about a custom kernel?	21:40
DanaG	Oh yeah, and I have an eSATA drive that doesn't pass SMART commands the normal way; the only tool I've seen work is "hdd sentinel".	21:41
DanaG	oh yeah, should work for that, too -- custom kernel.	21:41
BUGabundo	is esata dead on karmic???	21:41
BUGabundo	I can't use it :((((	21:41
spO	danag, hwo do you install fglrx for 2.6.30 or a custom kernel?	21:42
natewiebe13	why is everyone running a custom kernel?	21:43
bjsnider	no one but him	21:44
bjsnider	he knows he shouldn't be asking about it in here	21:44
mac_v	BUGabundo: how can i know which partition has the bad sector?	21:44
DanaG	DKMS will do it for you... as long as you use make-kpkg.	21:44
spO	let me guess, it is off topic in here?	21:44
DanaG	heh, stupid xsplash.	21:45
DanaG	login gives white.brown....blue....white...brown..fade to desktop.	21:45
mac_v	DanaG: why stupid, seems nice :)	21:45
BUGabundo	mac_v: tune2fs?	21:45
DanaG	It's hideous, if you use a non-default gdm wallpaper.	21:45
DanaG	It flickers to white, and it assumes you use the default wallpaper.	21:46
mac_v	BUGabundo: ah!	21:46
DanaG	so yeah, it's ugly. =þ	21:46
mac_v	DanaG: can you confirm this? > Bug #412598	21:46
ubottu	Launchpad bug 412598 in xsplash "Xsplash only uses the default wallpaper during transition to desktop." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412598	21:46
spO	why would talking about custom kernels be off topic in here? i don't quiet understand that, who dictates what the collective of ubuntu developers can talk about and why would ubuntu have implementation to compile your own kernel if you cannot even talk about it in here?	21:47
dtchen	spO: troubleshooting custom kernels falls outside the charter of this irc channel, which is devoted to discussion of features and bugs in the current development release _unmodified in the base components_.	21:48
DanaG	oh yeah, and for me, xsplash appears only at login... I still have normal usplash!	21:49
dtchen	spO: that said, a number of people compile and run custom kernels on any number of ubuntu releases; you just have to find them and engage them in a time-efficient manner ;-)	21:49
spO	and who is the proclaimed dictator(s) who make the rules for the rest of the developers?	21:49
mac_v	DanaG: normal usplash meaning the jaunty progress bar?	21:50
DanaG	Yeah.	21:50
DanaG	Oh yeah, and on gdm start, it flickers through black, white, and brown several times.	21:50
dtchen	spO: if you have an issue with it, you need to discuss it with the ubuntu irc ops	21:50
mac_v	DanaG: boot splash still hasnt been implemented yet	21:51
mac_v	xsplash	21:51
chrisccoulson	DanaG - that's probablt expected right now, because xsplash requires a running Xorg	21:51
chrisccoulson	right, what mac_v said	21:51
bjsnider	DanaG, how does xsplash supposedly improve on usplash	21:51
DanaG	oh yeah, and earlier I got this: alsa driver reports decibel values between 0.0 and 0.0, which makes no sense.	21:51
DanaG	Oh yeah, and if they want xsplash to really suit gnome... it needs to implement the same Gnome xml-wallpaper thingy that libgnome-bg does.	21:52
DanaG	s/suit/work well with/	21:52
* mac_v thinks DanaG forgot xsplash is WIP		21:52
DanaG	heh.	21:52
DanaG	And it's really early, at that.	21:53
natewiebe13	DanaG: did grub show up for you?	21:53
mac_v	natewiebe13: latest update hides grub by dfault	21:53
natewiebe13	how do you get it back up?	21:53
DanaG	oh yeah, I was using the gfxmenu one, but it's glitchy, so I ppa-purged it.	21:54
mac_v	natewiebe13: you mean always visible?	21:54
natewiebe13	either always, or when you want it	21:54
natewiebe13	doesnt matter	21:55
mac_v	natewiebe13: press ESC during boot	21:55
mac_v	it will show the grub entries	21:55
BUGabundo	dtchen: my audio is auto lowering to MUTE :(((	21:55
BUGabundo	every 2 mins	21:55
mac_v	BUGabundo: \o/ me too	21:55
dtchen	BUGabundo: did you disable flatvol?	21:55
BUGabundo	well its better then I get 140 %	21:55
natewiebe13	my audio is fine	21:55
BUGabundo	dtchen: no changes from me	21:55
spO	is there a console command to upgrade jaunty to karmic?	21:56
mac_v	dtchen: flatvol? what is that?	21:56
natewiebe13	mac_v: i already tried ESC at startup, but i'll do it again	21:56
natewiebe13	when should i press it?	21:56
BUGabundo	spO: I already gave it to you	21:57
BUGabundo	sp0 $ update-manager -d	21:57
spO	bug, update-manager -d is a graphical interface	21:57
spO	you need to run xwindows	21:57
BUGabundo	dtchen: any ideas? need any logs?	21:57
mac_v	natewiebe13: initially , during boot as soon as you start	21:57
DanaG	Flat volumes are just plain b0rkage.	21:57
BUGabundo	sp0 $ do-release-upgrade -d	21:57
BUGabundo	pfff	21:57
BUGabundo	sooooo easy :)	21:58
DanaG	not "broken"... they break OTHER things.	21:58
mac_v	natewiebe13: keep hitting it , just to be sure :)	21:58
kklimonda	DanaG: works fo me ;)	21:58
DanaG	well, it doesn't work for the way I think about volume.	21:58
DanaG	If I change the volume of totem, I don't want it to suddenly max out the volume of the sound card itself.	21:58
DanaG	I accidentally blasted myself due to that, yesterday.	21:59
mac_v	lol	21:59
DanaG	Totem was too quiet to hear, and I saw totem's volume low... so I turned it up, to where it's at full volume of whatever the card is at.	21:59
bjsnider	at least it didn't explode one of your speakers	21:59
DanaG	Or at laest, that's what it WOULD have been under how I think of volume control!	21:59
kklimonda	actually I have never though about it myself - I just use it :)	21:59
DanaG	But nooooo, instead, changing the app volume changed the sound card volume, too!	21:59
DanaG	The way I deal with volume controls is the way Windows deals with it:	22:00
DanaG	Card is at some percent of its max.... and app is at some percent of whatever-card-it-is-on,.	22:00
mac_v	DanaG: have you reported a bug about that ?	22:00
kklimonda	mac_v: it's not a bug	22:00
kklimonda	mac_v: that's how flat volume works	22:00
kklimonda	DanaG: wasn't it done the same way in Vista?	22:01
DanaG	And it's damn confusing.	22:01
mac_v	kklimonda: thats not right, if i change the volume of the app , the system volume should not change ,	22:01
DanaG	Nope, it's not.	22:01
mac_v	its not done anywhere like that!	22:01
DanaG	At least, not when apps control their own volume.	22:01
kklimonda	DanaG: totem apparently doesn't	22:01
kklimonda	DanaG: banshee for example is independent from pulseaudio (which I find confusing :) )	22:01
DanaG	You may be thinking of that line on the Vista mixer... that acts as a sort of cap. But that's the windows UI, not the app itself.	22:02
DanaG	Each app sees only its own volume; the UI just changes the way it's displayed.	22:02
dtchen	BUGabundo: in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf, use "flat-volumes = no"; killall pulseaudio	22:02
mac_v	kklimonda: the app volume was independant untill the latest updates	22:02
kklimonda	DanaG: application's shouldn't have independent volume control imo	22:02
BUGabundo	dtchen: yes Sir	22:02
kklimonda	it should be done all via pulseaudio mixer imo	22:02
DanaG	Well, I'm fine with totem's built-in thingy mapping to the app-thingy in PulseAudio; that's the same way Winamp does it, in Vista.	22:02
kklimonda	dtchen: I've commented on "my" audio bug	22:02
mac_v	kklimonda: why is that?! i might want one app lower while i have something else higher	22:03
DanaG	Try Winamp in Vista.	22:03
dtchen	kklimonda: what #?	22:03
kklimonda	mac_v: and it works like this right now	22:03
bjsnider	why is banshee independent of pulseaudio?	22:03
kklimonda	bjsnider: probably messy code	22:03
BUGabundo	!ping	22:03
ubottu	ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore	22:03
mac_v	no banshee is right to be independant	22:03
BUGabundo	some one ping me please	22:03
mac_v	BUGabundo:	22:03
BUGabundo	works	22:03
BUGabundo	I have sound	22:03
BUGabundo	lets see for how long	22:04
bjsnider	BUGabundo, mastermind of the watergate scandal	22:04
kklimonda	dtchen: bug 410769	22:04
ubottu	Launchpad bug 410769 in linux "[karmic regression] jack sensing doesn't trigger toggle of Headphone/Speaker automatically upon insertion/removal" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410769	22:04
dtchen	BUGabundo: if pulse keeps dying for you, try disabling shm, too. Same conffile.	22:04
DanaG	Each app's volume control should control the pulseaudio volume slider for that app... and not the sound card itself!	22:04
=== alankila_ is now known as alankila
BUGabundo	ok dtchen. will try to keep that in mind	22:05
kklimonda	DanaG: a	22:05
bjsnider	i thought that's what banshee did	22:05
BUGabundo	or ask ppl here to remind me :)	22:05
kklimonda	DanaG: a) it does and b) you can disable flat volume if you really don't like it	22:05
bjsnider	it's what happens here	22:05
DanaG	WHat it does for me: controls both the sound card and the app.	22:05
mac_v	kklimonda: how to disable flatvolume?	22:05
ripps	Does anybody know how to use gpg-agent and pinentry over ssh. I'm trying to pull bzr packges, build, sign and upload them from a remote machine	22:05
DanaG	So, instead of putting the app at 100% of card volume...	22:05
DanaG	it puts the card at 100% volume, period.	22:05
DanaG	BAM!	22:06
DanaG	yeah.	22:06
kklimonda	mac_v: I don't know, check google :)	22:06
mac_v	meh!	22:06
dtchen	kklimonda: ok, so the patch _is_ working	22:06
dtchen	kklimonda: you just uncovered a bug in pulseaudio as well	22:07
kklimonda	dtchen: it did for the first time only when I've disabled alsa.. now it's all back to beginning (I've even checked out for sure if I'm running the right kernel)	22:07
dtchen	meaning "disabled pulseaudio"?	22:07
kklimonda	dtchen: yes	22:07
DanaG	oh yeah, on the plus side, the auto-stream-switching rocks.	22:08
DanaG	oh yeah, how hard would it be to get PulseAudio running on, say, a MIPS-based thingy?	22:08
dtchen	kklimonda: right, so if you remove pulseaudio (i.e., don't run it at all), it should not exhibit the symptom at all	22:08
dtchen	DanaG: if it compiles, it should run	22:08
dtchen	pulse itself doesn't have anything that prevents it from running on those arches	22:08
mac_v	dtchen: how do i disable flatvolume?	22:09
* kklimonda feels like a chimpanzee when it comes to debugging sounds issues.. ;/		22:09
DanaG	I'm considering making my senior project be this: port a newer kernel to the C-Media CM-WS 01 (also known as wii-sonic).	22:12
DanaG	Picture a router, with a PCI audio chip.	22:12
kklimonda	dtchen: I'm pretty sure I had to kill PA first (it was missing "Analog output" profile at all which is weird because I couldn't reproduce it anytime later).	22:13
dtchen	mac_v: i mentioned above to BUGabundo	22:14
BUGabundo	dtchen: FYI until now it seems stable	22:14
* mac_v scrolls		22:14
dtchen	BUGabundo: what modifications did you make until "now"?	22:14
BUGabundo	mac_v: in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf, use "flat-volumes = no"; killall pulseaudio	22:14
BUGabundo	dtchen: Only that One	22:14
kklimonda	heh, pa dies on me recently all the time when I pause/resume mplayer :/	22:14
BUGabundo	I try to keep it pretty standard dtchen	22:14
dtchen	kklimonda: using which output (-ao )?	22:15
kklimonda	dtchen: pulse	22:15
* BUGabundo starts exaile to push PA to the limit		22:15
dtchen	kklimonda: that one's not recommended. use -ao alsa instead	22:15
kklimonda	ok, changed	22:16
DanaG	oh yeah, last time I used mplayer, I had to manually tell mplayer to do -channels 6.	22:16
kklimonda	btw, I really like how pulse is shaping up.	22:16
DanaG	yeah, PulseAudio is awesome.	22:19
kklimonda	ok, I've lost all my sound :D	22:19
dtchen	also, luke and i are rolling stuff in the ~ubuntu-audio-dev ppa	22:19
dtchen	you'll probably want to track that one	22:19
DanaG	now, here's a summer-of-code idea: a virtual sound card driver for Windows, that works with a windows PA server.	22:19
mac_v	BUGabundo: ah thanx... do i have to restart X for the settings to take effect? i tired killall but doesnt seem to take effect yet	22:19
BUGabundo	nope	22:19
BUGabundo	just kill PA	22:20
DanaG	I'd consider that as senior project, but considering I have no Windows (even non-driver) programming experience, that's overly ambitious.	22:20
mac_v	hmm... but still the system volume changes with totem! :(	22:20
DanaG	oh yeah, something bad about the new volume control applet: it makes it damn hard to do pulseaudio -vvv.	22:23
kklimonda	dtchen is gone? :/	22:23
=== jd0dggy is now known as jdoggy
jdoggy	hi, how do I mount/boot an encrypted lvm partition from the textbox/grub command line?	22:25
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChlid
=== PriceChlid is now known as PriceChild
Q-FUNK	howdy! what is this new 'xsplash' package supposed to do? replace usplash?	22:37
* BUGabundo has it disabled and unsintaled		22:38
mac_v	Q-FUNK: yes	22:44
DanaG	... eventually.	22:44
DanaG	Right now it's just hideous and jarring. =P	22:44
Q-FUNK	mac_v: ok. it just appeared out of nowhere and doesn't seem to be doing much of anything, which felt like an odd last-minute addition, considering that we're already in alpha stage.	22:50
kklimonda	Q-FUNK: well, we are only in an alpha stage	22:50
mac_v	Q-FUNK: well thats alpha... xsplash will eventually replace usplash	22:51
mac_v	Q-FUNK: there is nothin before alpha ;p	22:51
Q-FUNK	before alpha, there's all the time in the world to make changes. starting with alpha, things should mostly be in release shape, but might still have a few rough edges.	22:52
BUGabundo	ahh???	22:53
mac_v	Q-FUNK: you are mistaken	22:53
BUGabundo	what are you saying??	22:53
BUGabundo	we are alpha ALL the way past Feature Freeze	22:53
kklimonda	Q-FUNK: first alpha is released 2 weeks after toolchain update	22:53
kklimonda	Q-FUNK: seriously you don't think it should be considered feature freeze?	22:53
Q-FUNK	hasn't the feature freeze come already?	22:53
kklimonda	not	22:54
kklimonda	it's 27th august	22:54
mac_v	Q-FUNK: as i said , there is nothing before alpha! alpha is the first step	22:54
Q-FUNK	that's coming pretty quick. it's a tad too close to that date to make such changes.	22:54
DanaG	I hope it;;; be kest bblinky-glitchy-colorflippy.	22:55
kklimonda	Q-FUNK: no - it can be dropped after this date if it doesn't work	22:55
DanaG	er, sorry, using r600 compiz.	22:55
DanaG	makes it hard to type in gnome-terminal.	22:55
mac_v	Q-FUNK: wait for 26th you'll have more last minute changes ;p	22:55
BUGabundo	!schedule \| Q-FUNK	22:55
ubottu	Q-FUNK: A schedule of Karmic Koala (9.10) release milestones can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule	22:55
Q-FUNK	call it a side-effect of a 10+ year career in product management, but I've seen times and times again how introducing that sort of changes so close to a feature freeze is entirely the wrong thing to do. :)	22:56
* mac_v gives up!		22:57
kklimonda	Q-FUNK: if it doesn't work as expected before launch we can always remove it.	22:58
mac_v	Q-FUNK: just out of curiosity ... what in your experience is the product label before an alpha?	23:01
kklimonda	big pile of c#$@ ;)	23:01
mac_v	hehe	23:01
Q-FUNK	mac_v: development phase.	23:02
mac_v	Q-FUNK: maybe you are new to ubuntu , here alpha is the development phase	23:02
mac_v	i think it is similar for all OS ,	23:03
Q-FUNK	not quite	23:03
kklimonda	mac_v: I think that when you have a big development team some of people are working on a new things and some are polishing the next release	23:04
mac_v	kklimonda: hehe , when do we get such a team ;p	23:05
kklimonda	mac_v: never	23:05
mac_v	exactly	23:05
Q-FUNK	development -> alpha (first rough release, already 90% feature frozen) -> beta (pre-release version of the final product, distributed to a wider audience to check for possible last-minute bugs, 99% feature freeeze) -> final.	23:05
BUGabundo	Q-FUNK: Ubuntu as a very short devel cycle	23:06
kklimonda	Q-FUNK: as I said - we can't really do it this way as we are lacking people. Frankly, we don't even have enough of them for QA of released versions.. :/	23:06
BUGabundo	well we don't even DO devel on the distro per si	23:06
BUGabundo	its more like packaging upstream and iron stuff out to work together	23:06
mac_v	Q-FUNK: we have 6 months cycles , so not possible	23:07
ripps	Q-FUNK: Ubuntu is similar, Alpha->Beta->Release Candidate->Final	23:07
ripps	You apparently use Beta as Release Candidate	23:09
Q-FUNK	ripps: I've seldom seen projects where there's time to have them separate from betas	23:10
Q-FUNK	time or will	23:10
Q-FUNK	either that or, in the case of the linux kernel, everything is in constant flux in GIT, sometimes packaged as change sets (release candidates) then released as final.	23:11
Q-FUNK	I guess you could say that the methodology is to use alpha and beta as a two stage feature freeze, coupled with two levels of testing (alpha as internal, beta as internal + trusted partners).	23:14
Q-FUNK	release candidates, if they get issues, are almost finished products that perhaps lack updated documentation but are otherwise pretty much ready to ship as-is.	23:14
Q-FUNK	öö.. get issued	23:14
kklimonda	Q-FUNK: no time for few levels of testing :/	23:16
kklimonda	we just test it all the time during development ;)	23:16
Q-FUNK	so I noticed :)	23:17
ripps	Q-FUNK: we are the internal testing. Ubuntu is a community based distro. Yes, it does have a cooperate backer, but we are the ones that shape it.	23:17
BUGabundo	we are mouse labs	23:18
Q-FUNK	corporate. right	23:18
=== DanaG1 is now known as DanaG
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
spO	how do i downgrade from karmic to jaunty?	23:44
kklimonda	spO: you can't	23:47
spO	OH NO	23:47
kklimonda	spO: it's not supported, the easiest was is to backup your data and install system from scratch	23:47
bjsnider	using a jaunty livecd	23:47
kklimonda	spO: I'd also remove all settings	23:48
BUGabundo	well	23:49
BUGabundo	on karmic+1 we will be able too	23:49
BUGabundo	*to	23:49
BUGabundo	with UM sandbox from mvo	23:50
Q-FUNK	spO: you could, but it involves some ugly tricks with APT	23:50
kklimonda	it's really hard and error-prone	23:51
kklimonda	BUGabundo: hmm? what sandbox?	23:51
BUGabundo	Q-FUNK: he can't	23:51
kklimonda	BUGabundo: like in installing karmic+1 in sandbox for testing?	23:52
BUGabundo	kklimonda: there were a few emails to the devel ML about it	23:52
BUGabundo	no no	23:52
BUGabundo	you Upgrade, don't like it, restore old system	23:52
BUGabundo	or better, discard the upgrade	23:52
BUGabundo	since it is on a tempfs	23:52
kklimonda	hmm.. I kind of missed them - I'm rethinking my ubuntu workflow as I'm getting spammed by MLs and desktop bugs currently	23:52
Q-FUNK	sad but true, not all software is packaged sanely enough to even allow globally reinstalling current versions using the --reinstall APT option. so, yes, downgrading is even more tricky.	23:52
cyphermox	couldn't you just pin the packages back to the previous release?	23:54
Q-FUNK	cyphermox: not quite. maintainer scripts often perfrom operations during upgrades that cannot be undone	23:55
cyphermox	ah	23:55
cyphermox	such as? stuff like the grub upgrade or something?	23:56
Q-FUNK	one that I found today, for instance: swfdec-mozilla	23:56
kklimonda	cyphermox: also some libraries can't be easily downgraded, for example libc	23:57
kklimonda	or libcstd++	23:57
cyphermox	ah, of course	23:57
Q-FUNK	that one has a seriously broken maintainer script (was it prerm or postinst, I forgot) that insists on redoing the alternatives for all mozilla variants, without first chekcing if each variant is installed. result: it exit with errors.	23:57
cyphermox	it would need to be done in a specific order, right?	23:58
cyphermox	thanks for the clarification :)	23:59
Q-FUNK	cyphermox: there is a trick I sometimes use, but it needs manual fixing: pin packages from the previous name release to 1000 in /etc/apt/preferences and from the current release to 1. then, change sources.list, apt-get update, then apt-get dist-upgrade.	23:59
xcdfgkjhgcv	I can't get DAAP or Samba to work. :(	23:59

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