[00:17] <TheMuso> slangasek: studio will have to be respun due to the new kernel not being out of the NEW queue when .1 was spun.
[00:19] <slangasek> TheMuso: respinning now
[00:19] <TheMuso> slangasek: thanks
[00:38] <slangasek> TheMuso: posted to the tracker
[00:38] <slangasek> hrm, hang on
[00:39] <slangasek> just got a failure mail; so I guess the ones I posted are in fact the same ones as before
[00:40] <slangasek> yeah, linux-image-rt still uninstallable
[00:40] <TheMuso> hrm I'll check that out
[00:41] <slangasek> still digging here
[00:42] <slangasek> ah, it's 20090813 now, isn't it :)
[00:42] <slangasek> ok, trying again
[00:42] <slangasek> right, got past the breakage this time - must've been a transient connectivity problem with lp
[00:42] <TheMuso> ah ok.
[00:43] <TheMuso> I was going to say all looks ok here, the kernel has been p ublished, the dependencies look correct...
[00:45] <slangasek> right, the packages were uninstallable because the isos didn't really get rebuilt
[00:46] <TheMuso> ah ok
[00:50] <slangasek> TheMuso: ok, really posted now
[00:55] <TheMuso> slangasek: ok thanks.
[00:58]  * TheMuso tries out zsync for the first time.
[04:20] <ebroder> has anybody done any experimentation with running Ubuntu's debian-installer as a Xen domU?
[04:21] <ebroder> (a la http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Xen)
[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[07:23] <\sh> moins
[07:24] <AnAnt> could someone sponsor this merge request, it's been filed about 2 weeks ago: LP 406890
[07:26]  * Hobbsee looks at it
[07:26] <AnAnt> thanks
[07:26] <StevenK> irssi is in main, and main is frozen
[07:26] <AnAnt> frozen since when ?
[07:26] <AnAnt> isn't feature freeze near end of august ?
[07:27] <soren> Alpha freeze. Since Tuesday.
[07:27] <Hobbsee> no, alpha 4
[07:27]  * Hobbsee will sanity-look, and upload it later
[07:27] <soren> It'll be over some time today, probably.
[07:27] <AnAnt> oh, it's still Thursday
[07:27] <AnAnt> sorry, I thought it was friday
[07:28] <\sh> Hobbsee: if you are in sponsor more ;) bug #412861 is needing love, too ;)
[07:28] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: ok, thanks
[07:28] <\sh> s/more/mode/
[07:28] <Hobbsee> \sh: nah, not in sponsor mode.  and can't you sponsor?
[07:28] <\sh> Hobbsee: not for main
[07:28] <Hobbsee> oh
[07:28] <\sh> s/oh/doh/ ;)
[07:28] <maco> oh god too many slashes in too many directions
[07:28]  * StevenK slashes maco 
[07:30] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: that doesn't look right - I highly doubt 03firsttimer_text ever gets applied.
[07:30]  * Hobbsee will fix it
[07:32] <AnAnt> ok, thanks
[07:32] <Hobbsee> eh, crap, tha'ts quilt
[07:32]  * Hobbsee goes to look up how quilt applies patches
[07:32] <AnAnt> I can work on it
[07:32] <StevenK> Hobbsee: "Badly"
[07:33] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: well, i've looked at it this far.  may as well do a full upload ;)
[07:33] <spm> StevenK: is that a technical description or a personal observation? idly curious. :-)
[07:33] <Hobbsee> StevenK: agreed ;)
[07:33] <AnAnt> ok
[07:34] <maco> oh oh i can get quilt import to work consistently now :D (this is new since UDS when some of you heard me whining about how hard quilt is)
[07:34] <StevenK> spm: It's both, since I'm clever
[07:34] <\sh> quilt and hard?
[07:34] <StevenK> quilt isn't hard, it's just braindead
[07:35] <spm> StevenK: apologies. I should have realised by now. :-P
[07:35] <StevenK> spm: s/clever/bitter/ to taste
[07:35] <AnAnt> StevenK: you prefer what simple-patchsys ?
[07:35] <StevenK> AnAnt: Heck no, CDBS is a broken black-box
[07:36] <AnAnt> StevenK: dpatch ?
[07:36] <StevenK> debhelper 5 or 7 with dpatch
[07:36] <AnAnt> ah
[07:37] <maco> \sh: ive managed to bungle up quilt so thoroughly before that scottk couldnt undo it after a few hours of trying. running the commands in the wrong order tends todo that :P
[07:37] <ScottK> Quilt is the Git of patching systems and I don't mean that in a good way.
[07:37] <Hobbsee> simple-patchsys is nice, when it works
[07:37] <StevenK> Bwaha
[07:38] <Hobbsee> oh, go away postfix.
[07:38] <maco> oh postfix...thats a mail thing right?
[07:38] <maco> that means ScottK knows about it?
[07:38] <ScottK> Only when it's working
[07:38] <Hobbsee> yeah - installed when you install devscripts
[07:38] <StevenK> Hobbsee: And when CDBS isn't obstreperous
[07:38] <AnAnt> ScottK: ah, we really do differ !
[07:38] <Hobbsee> hahahaha
[07:38] <Hobbsee> StevenK: well, yeah
[07:38] <StevenK> Which is well, all the time
[07:38] <AnAnt> I prefer quilt & git
[07:39] <AnAnt> over dpatch & bzr
[07:39] <ScottK> AnAnt: I saw you took care of the blueman sync from Debian.  What would you think about dropping show-only-in-gnome from the .desktop files.  I tested it and it works better in KDE than kdebluetooth,
[07:39] <AnAnt> I find them easier to deal with
[07:39] <StevenK> I'm sorry, my brain just page faulted
[07:39] <StevenK> You just said git and easier in one sentence
[07:39] <ScottK> I'm sure I'd be fine with Git if I used it regularly enough to not have to relearn it every time I use it.
[07:40] <AnAnt> StevenK: hehe
[07:40] <AnAnt> ScottK: ok, I'll look at that
[07:41] <\sh> maco: lol...well, it takes some time to get used to quilt
[07:42] <AnAnt> ScottK: btw, can you mean this in the blueman thread ?
[07:43] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: oh, it's right.
[07:43] <AnAnt> ScottK: although I don't think that this would make a difference
[07:43] <\sh> maco: but if you want to learn from the masters of patch systems, check the python source package dpatch system ;) that's one of my favorites how to use dpatch in a let's say "doko" way ;) it took my brain some time to understand the logic behind it..since then , doko is my patch system master :)
[07:43] <AnAnt> ScottK: since upstream responsiveness is really important indeed
[07:43] <ScottK> AnAnt: Not to make it default, but just to work.
[07:43] <ScottK> kdebluetooth is pretty broken right now.
[07:45]  * Hobbsee moves irssi to to_dput/ in the hope she remembers to upload it
[07:45] <AnAnt> ScottK: erm, I'm not good at CDBS !
[07:45] <ScottK> cdbs-edit-patch and edit the .desktops.
[07:45] <StevenK> And then exit the subshell
[07:45] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: I'll remind you tommorrow (I hope)
[07:46] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: cool, OK
[07:47] <\sh> now for some more interesting work...more puppet love
[07:48] <AnAnt> ScottK: is there a bug filed about this ?
[07:48] <StevenK> \sh: Now now
[07:48] <Hobbsee> \sh: sponsor!  sponsor!
[07:48] <ScottK> AnAnt: No
[07:49] <Hobbsee> \sh: and grabbed your patch too
[07:49] <lifeless> win 71
[07:50] <AnAnt> ScottK: could you do so ?
[07:50] <ScottK> Sure
[07:53] <ScottK> AnAnt: I ended up just expanding on Bug #399129, but it's there now.
[07:54] <\sh> Hobbsee: thx a lot :)
[07:54] <Hobbsee> \sh: y/w
[07:54] <AnAnt> ScottK: I should just attach a debdiff to that, right ?
[07:55] <ScottK> AnAnt: Yes.  I'll sponsor it.
[07:56] <Hobbsee> oh, screw you, launchpad
[07:56] <Hobbsee> you have improved, but that bug is still here
[07:56] <StevenK> Hah
[07:57] <Hobbsee> search results -->  reorder == search terms lost.  Fail.
[08:00] <AnAnt> ScottK: done, also submitted patch to debian
[08:01] <ScottK> AnAnt: Thanks.  I'll look at it, but maybe not until tomorrow as it's very late here.
[08:01] <AnAnt> ok, I gotta run too
[08:01] <AnAnt> bye
[08:01] <ScottK> Debian may have a different view as for KDE this is very much a workaround for broken kdebluetooth
[08:02] <AnAnt> ScottK: well, a KDE/Xfce user on Debian might still like to have blueman
[08:02] <ScottK> True, but if kdebluetooth was working great, having the Gnomish applet appear in a KDE session might be troubling.
[08:03] <AnAnt> ah, ok
[08:03] <ScottK> Still it's probably good to get them to think about it.
[08:05] <AnAnt> ok
[08:06] <AnAnt> so, I've got to leave now
[08:06] <AnAnt> bye
[08:07] <dholbach> Hobbsee, quadrispro: thanks for doing some sponsoring right now! :)
[08:07] <Hobbsee> dholbach: consider it my yearly sponsoring quota ;)
[08:07] <dholbach> more! more! more!
[08:07] <quadrispro> lol
[08:08] <quadrispro> dholbach: thanks for the add (on facebook)! :D
[08:08] <StevenK> quadrispro: Now you'll get bugged about sponsorship on IRC and facebook
[08:08]  * StevenK hides
[08:09] <dholbach> StevenK: sponsoring!
[08:09] <dholbach> StevenK: sponsoring!
[08:09] <dholbach> StevenK: sponsoring!
[08:09]  * quadrispro screaming: NOOoooo
[08:09] <Hobbsee> dholbach: actually, make that 3 bugs.  That's gotta be the yearly sponsoring quota ;)
[08:09] <dholbach> for your convenience: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[08:10] <quadrispro> mmmh... I need a tester...
[08:10] <maco> your fave link :P
[08:15] <Hobbsee> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quassel/+bug/374802 is probably your fun
[08:25] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Last I saw the patch there it switched from using cdbs to dh and that's a problem as we have a lot of kde specific magic in cdbs we'd lose.
[08:25] <Hobbsee> ScottK: then comment / reject it?
[08:26] <Hobbsee> ScottK: in the spirit of killing easy things off that list
[08:26] <ScottK> OK
[08:43] <maxb> Where would I find devicekit-power gurus?
[08:44] <seb128> maxb, bugs.freedesktop.org?
[08:46] <maxb> fair enough. I was wondering if there was anywhere on IRC I couldd go for pointers in debugging why it doesn't like my battery
[08:47] <maxb> lp 384304 ftr
[08:48] <seb128> not sure if they have an irc channel
[08:48] <seb128> in ubuntu pitti is looking at devkit but he's on holidays
[08:49] <maxb> ok, I'll try my luck in bugzilla then
[11:28] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/397776 <- this is a quite important bug that needs to be fixed imo :(
[12:11] <james_w> how can I find the I/O load of a machine without using any fancy tools?
[12:11] <james_w> e.g. I know iotop, but it's not installed on this box
[12:13] <Daviey> james_w: /proc/diskstats and awk :)
[12:14] <james_w> thanks
[12:17] <Daviey> james_w: http://erk.daviey.com/diskio.txt
[12:17] <james_w> thanks
[12:20] <bankix> Hi.
[12:23] <bankix> I'm just about creating a live system basing heavily on ubuntu. Due there is no way in exchanging the kernel afterwards, but possible to install other new packages on a persistent filesystem (e.g. usb stick), I want apt to keep the kernel I delivered and do not install a newer one, which would only be a waste of space. I set linux-image-*-generic, linux-image-generic and linux-generic on hold, but an apt-get dist-upgrade still wants to install me a 
[12:23] <amitk> wohoo, first nautilus crashed (apport pops up, I lose theming), then gnome-settings-daemon crashed (apport pops up), in the meanwhile firefox crashes while apport tried to file a bug and apport popped up
[12:25] <slangasek> amitk: heh
[12:26] <ogra> we call that apport *integration* ;)
[12:35] <bankix> ..found the problem. I should do a "apt-get upgrade" and no "dist-upgrade". Thanks for listening.
[12:36] <bankix> Bye...
[12:45] <bankix> Sorry, I've got another question: When running "apt-get update" via chroot (while mounted dev, sys and proc via --bind so the chroot has access to them) it will (re-)start some services -- cron, udev, acpid, and some more. How can I suppress this?
[12:47] <cjwatson> I think what you're supposed to do is write a /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d script that just does 'exit 101'
[12:47] <cjwatson> /usr/share/doc/sysv-rc/README.policy-rc.d.gz
[12:48] <cjwatson> it is possible that this is marginally overengineered ...
[12:48] <bankix> Thanks!
[12:48] <bankix> I'll give this a try.
[12:49] <dholbach> Packaging Training Session "On-Call Review" with cjwatson, seb128, james_w and me in 12m in #ubuntu-classroom
[12:50] <tkamppeter> ccheney: hi
[12:52] <liw> cjwatson, it's so marverlously flexible nobody uses it, yes
[12:54] <mdz> asac, https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/412226 (notice the automatic driver-ndiswrapper tag)
[12:55] <slangasek> liw: there's nothing quite like a hammer with a slinky for a handle
[12:56] <liw> however, at least the "exit 101" solution for preventing any services from starting in a chroot is easy to implement
[12:56] <mdz> asac, it also adds rfkill info, crda, etc.
[12:57] <asac> nice
[12:58] <mdz> and the overall source_network-manager.py is much shorter
[12:58] <mdz> asac, I pushed those hanges to ubuntu.head, hope that's ok.  if you'd rather I send merge requests, I can do that
[12:59] <tkamppeter> ccheney: I have a question about OpenOffice.org bug 94173
[13:00] <tkamppeter> ubottu, it must be http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=94173
[13:00] <asac> mdz: thats ok. i can add you to NM team officially too (seems you can push everywhere?)
[13:00] <asac> mdz: but please use a proper email in your commits ;)
[13:00] <asac> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/network-manager/ubuntu.head
[13:00] <asac> some email that is linked to a launchpad account
[13:00] <mdz> asac, fixed my .bazaar.conf on this machine, sorry
[13:01] <mdz> asac, I can uncommit and recommit to fix it
[13:01] <asac> ok
[13:01] <asac> that would beautify it ;)
[13:02] <asac> mdz: oh. we also add the email to the [...] usually ... because in that way it also gets directly linked from the uploaded changelog
[13:02] <asac> but i can do that when i next touch it for you too
[13:02] <asac> (probably dch should be improved to do that)
[13:02] <asac> thx for your work on this
[13:05] <mdz> asac, ok, I made those changes. look ok now?
[13:08] <asac> mdz: yeah. thanks. i will probably add a bunch of more drivers (if not all that i find)
[13:08] <bankix> cjwatson: Thanks again, that's what I was looking for. Worked like a charm.
[13:08] <asac> maybe that could be moved to the apport wifi hooks too at some point?
[13:09] <mdz> asac, yes, that would be great, if you could agree with the kernel team on a standard set of tags
[13:10] <mdz> Keybuk, can you give us a hint on what should replace the lshal code in source_network-manager.py ?
[13:10] <bankix> Bye.
[13:10] <asac> i thought about something like udevadmn info --query=all --attribute-walk --path=/sys/class/net/*
[13:11] <asac> but that doesnt work. not sure if we can refer to "class" paths directly in --path ... or if we need to resolve the right sysfs path
[13:12] <mdz> asac, this works, but produces a lot of data:
[13:12] <mdz> for dev in /sys/class/net/*; do udevadm info --query=all --attribute-walk --path=$dev; done
[13:13] <mdz> we probably want to parse that into some easier-to-read form
[13:13] <asac> seems udevadm info --query=all --path=/class/net/eth2 --attribute-walk works
[13:13] <mdz> (the lshal form was not that great either)
[13:14] <asac> hmm i think its ok for now ... not so sure what type of info we will need, so better have more. the other question is how we can find a good subset of /class/tty/* things without requiring that the modem prober worked well (which adds a ID_NM label)
[13:15] <asac> attaching all ttys doesnt sound like the right approach ;)
[13:15] <Keybuk> mdz: what's source_network-manager.py ?
[13:15] <asac> apport hook of NM
[13:16] <asac> Keybuk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~network-manager/network-manager/ubuntu.head/annotate/head%3A/source_network-manager.py
[13:16] <Keybuk> right that kind of udev query would work fine
[13:16] <Keybuk> someone enterprising could do a python-udev, that would be fun ;)
[13:16] <mdz> Keybuk, the apport hook for network-manager, which you'll have on your system in /usr/share/apport/package-hooks
[13:17] <asac> ok so i would suggest to use the query above for net devices and then think a bit about the modem ttys
[13:17] <asac> probably start with those already identified as NM_ modems
[13:18] <asac> but i have to think about it. the udev output is particular useful to have for those modems not properly detected
[13:35] <mdz> asac, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingNetworkManager refers to /lib/udev/nm-modem-probe, but i don't have that on my system
[13:35] <mdz> that seems like useful info to add to the hook
[13:36] <asac> mdz: we dont have that anymore - since modemmanager landed
[13:37] <asac> i will check with nm upstream what they think should be added for modems
[13:38] <slangasek> plars: does bug #411091 happen on each suspend/resume?
[13:38] <mdz> asac, at the least I think we should add modemmanager to the syslog regex
[13:39] <asac> yeah
[13:41] <asac> wonder if there is anything we can do in apport so users get to know that modem related bugs should now get filed against modemmanager package
[13:43] <seb128> asac, you can do interactive hooks or be smart
[13:44] <asac> seb128: yeah. but i think we should need to check the title entered for words like "3g" and "modem"
[13:44] <mdz> asac, I've added modem-manager to the regex in apport, will be in the next upload
[13:44] <seb128> asac, why not just have a small interactive hook?
[13:44] <seb128> asac, ask "is your issue a 3g modem one"
[13:44] <mdz> asac, seb128++
[13:45] <asac> i dont know about that feature ;)
[13:45] <asac> would be great for sure
[13:45] <mdz> asac, we could easily add a hook which asks the user "which connection are you having a problem with?"
[13:45] <seb128> asac, ubuntu-bug -p totem
[13:45] <asac> otherwise network-manager will become a "catch all" package similar to firefox
[13:45] <mdz> then change the package, tags, debug info, etc. as appropriate for that
[13:45] <asac> sounds good
[13:46] <mdz> asac, could let them select either an NM connection profile, or a network interface
[13:47] <asac> hmm. i think that would be great in the long run. but for now we could also ask for "what type of connection do you have a problem with: a) wired, b) wifi, c) modem/3g, d) VPN"
[13:49] <seb128> asac, you have details in package-hooks.txt.gz
[13:49] <seb128> on what questions you can ask, etc
[13:50] <seb128> or you can look to totem or devicekit-disks for examples
[13:51] <seb128> seems pitti didn't upload the devicekit one
[14:00] <asac> thx will check that out ... and hoping for more contributions ;)
[14:57] <afmacedo_> question: Is Ubuntu willing to make packagekit the default package-manager?
[14:57] <afmacedo_> or that's gonna work for Kubuntu only?
[14:58] <seb128> does it handle debconf questions, etc now
[14:58] <ccm> seb128: finally got a full backtrace - interested before i post it?
[14:58] <seb128> slangasek, when do you expect the freeze to be over?
[14:58] <ScottK> afmacedo_: That presumes it actually works for Kubuntu.
[14:59] <seb128> ccm, yes on pastebin
[14:59] <ccm> seb128: yes, of course, wait a sec
[14:59] <ccm> *giggle*
[14:59] <ccm> 5988 segmentation fault (core dumped)  gedit gdb-firefox5.txt
[14:59] <ccm> not my day
[14:59] <afmacedo_> ScottK: To be honest, I don't remember having it updating a package which demands debconf interaction
[15:00] <beuno> slangasek, bug 412925 is going to be... hard to address
[15:00] <ScottK> afmacedo_: It's happened to me.  The lack of security concerns me the most.
[15:00] <beuno> slangasek, it will require a lot of creativity at least
[15:00] <ScottK> Also there's no equivalent of dist-upgrade in kpackagekit last I tried it.
[15:00] <afmacedo_> I see...
[15:01] <ScottK> fwiw, adept 3 had the same security issues (that are at least partially addressed now).
[15:01] <james_w> that's being partially implemented now
[15:02] <james_w> (dist-upgrade)
[15:02] <ScottK> james_w: Which?  Security or dist-upgrade?
[15:02] <ScottK> Ah.
[15:02] <ScottK> Excellent.
[15:02] <ccm> seb128: http://paste2.org/p/376339
[15:02] <ccm> seb128: currently a lot of applications are crashing here
[15:02] <ccm> seb128: looks like libpango
[15:02] <cjwatson> afmacedo_: we've talked briefly about tunnelling debconf over d-bus or something so that packagekit can handle it properly, but to my knowledge nobody has done the work
[15:03] <afmacedo_> ok... so if I got it right: kpackagekit handles debconf already AND dist-upgrade is partially implemented, is that correct?
[15:03] <afmacedo_> cjwatson: got it
[15:03] <cjwatson> how does kpackagekit handle debconf?
[15:03] <seb128> ccm, dpkg -l libpango1.0-0
[15:03] <james_w> cjwatson: it doesn't
[15:03] <ScottK> afmacedo_: I don't think it does debconf
[15:03] <cjwatson> that's what I thought
[15:03] <afmacedo_> cjwatson: same here
[15:03] <cjwatson> if anyone figures it out, as debconf co-maintainer I'd be happy to review patches
[15:03] <ccm> seb128: ii  libpango1.0-0    1.25.2-0ubuntu2  Layout and rendering of internationalized text
[15:04] <james_w> there's a further issue in that the idea of debconf conflicts with the model for user interaction in packagekit
[15:04] <ScottK> beuno: At least have the ajax window open with the current status under the mouse so an accidental unclick doesn't change status.
[15:04] <seb128> ccm, could you use pastebin.ubuntu.com ratheR?
[15:05] <seb128> ccm, no way to copy from that weird pastebin you use
[15:05] <ccm> seb128: i would, but the browser crashes
[15:05] <seb128> or rather it changes formating
[15:05] <seb128> hum ok
[15:05] <ccm> seb128: so i used gnome-do as a work around
[15:05] <ccm> seb128: i can mail you the file
[15:05] <seb128> anyway wait for 1.15.3
[15:05] <cjwatson> ccm: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-paste
[15:05] <beuno> ScottK, that can be tricky, as we would either need to move the mouse, or move the overlay. But yes, we should find a way to prevent accidental changes as much as we can
[15:05] <seb128> ccm, some crashers are fixed that
[15:06] <seb128> but it's blocked due to alpha freeze
[15:06] <ccm> seb128: okay
[15:06] <ccm> cjwatson: thank you!
[15:07] <ccm> seb128: okay, there is the new paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/252531/
[15:07] <ccm> cjwatson: works like a charm
[15:07] <ccm> seb128: will wait for the update then
[15:08] <cjwatson> wow, gdb output that's been sent into RTL is very very confusing to read
[15:19] <dholbach> james_w, seb128, cjwatson: the log is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-08-13 - thanks again
[15:19] <dholbach> james_w, seb128, cjwatson: reading it again it doesn't strike me as too confusing - what do you think?
[15:19] <seb128> dholbach, thanks
[15:21] <seb128> dholbach, looks good to me too
[15:23] <dholbach> seb128: I guess we should have those sessions more often - it was a lot of fun :)
[15:25] <seb128> dholbach, yeah, twice a month or something
[15:25] <seb128> dholbach, or maybe some one hour sponsoring, ftbfs etc sprint
[15:26] <seb128> so some people work together to get things done
[15:27] <dholbach> yeah, I'm not sure myself what the best format for it is
[15:27] <dholbach> in the ideal world (as I imagine it), we'd have a 24/7 channel and always have a few people whose name is in the topic to indicate they're reviewing right now :)
[15:27] <seb128> ;-)
[15:28] <ccm> seb128: filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango1.0/+bug/413098 - just for tracking this down
[15:28] <seb128> ccm, thanks
[15:28] <cjwatson> dholbach: actually I think that'd be brilliant
[15:29] <seb128> dholbach, it seems it's difficult for some people to spend sponsoring time
[15:29] <seb128> having a one hour slot with some people and getting some animation on IRC could be good
[15:29] <seb128> we would rotate people, that would give some action and get some sponsoring done
[15:30] <dholbach> even if it every now and then (on the WE for example) it says "current reviewer: -"
[15:30] <dholbach> seb128: I'd hope those people very soon realised that should MAKE MORE TIME to do reviews :-)
[15:30] <ccheney> tkamppeter: OOo bug tracker or lp?
[15:30] <seb128> dholbach, well the think is that it's easy to forgot those
[15:31] <ccheney> tkamppeter: ah i see it now
[15:31] <seb128> or to put them low in your todolist
[15:31] <cjwatson> dholbach: do we have #ubuntu-reviews already?
[15:31] <seb128> when having a defined slot and some animation can motivated to be there
[15:31] <tkamppeter> ccheney: OOo bug tracker, I have posted the link here.
[15:32] <ccheney> tkamppeter: ok what about the bug, i read it
[15:32]  * cjwatson shuffles his scheduled weekly sponsorship a few hours earlier so that it clashes less with TB meetings
[15:32] <dholbach> cjwatson: not yet :)
[15:32] <tkamppeter> ccheney: Seems that they want to know whether you already started writing a patch or whether they need to start from the beginning, so that they do not do work which you have already done.
[15:32] <dholbach> or well... I'm there now
[15:32] <cjwatson> dholbach: wanna?
[15:33] <cjwatson> I realise it duplicates #ubuntu-motu a bit at the moment
[15:33] <ccheney> tkamppeter: ok followed up and mentioned i have no patch
[15:34] <tkamppeter> ccheney: Thanks.
[15:34] <dholbach> cjwatson: I just brought it up with the packaging training coordinators, but I'd like to bring it up on ubuntu-devel@ for discussion too - somehow we need to get some kind of rotation going
[15:34] <ccheney> tkamppeter: looks like it won't make 10.04 from what he said
[15:35] <ccheney> tkamppeter: feature freeze for 3.2 (Ubuntu 10.04) is Sept 21
[15:37] <tkamppeter> ccheney: What exactly means CWS?
[15:40] <tkamppeter> ccheney: Is this a bigger effort, so that it will only go into 3.3 or 4.0?
[15:40] <ccheney> tkamppeter: like a revision control branch for development work
[15:41] <ccheney> tkamppeter: i think the only person even requesting it is you so you have to find someone to actually do the work i suppose?
[15:41] <cody-somerville> superm1, ping
[15:41] <superm1> cody-somerville, pong
[15:41] <ccheney> tkamppeter: its often hard to get even bugs fixed in a timely manner in OOo via upstream
[15:42] <tkamppeter> ccheney: I have a person who will perhaps soon work on OOo using the Common Printing Dialog, so he will probably do the PDF output in the same effort then.
[15:43] <tkamppeter> ccheney: Then a new bug report with attached patch could be opened, perhaps the only form of bug report were they do anything.
[15:44] <ScottK> tkamppeter: I recently had need to set up an HP printer on the network from Kubuntu and also from OS X.  I find if we want to 'match' the OS X user experience we will have to worsten printer setup considerably.
[15:44]  * ScottK never did get OS X to work.
[15:44] <ccheney> tkamppeter: yea probably so :-\
[15:45] <tkamppeter> ScottK: So it means printer setup is much better in Ubuntu than in Mac OS X?
[15:45] <ScottK> tkamppeter: Yes.
[15:45] <tkamppeter> ScottK: And our goal is not to copy other OSes but to be better.
[15:45] <ScottK> Agreed.
[15:46] <ScottK> On Kubuntu it was just click, click, click until done.
[15:46] <ScottK> On OS X it was the Windows like experience of no driver, hunt it down on the HP web site, download 100+MB file, install, and then have it still not work.
[15:47] <tkamppeter> ScottK: Recently, one of the managers of the LF asked me why I do the high effort with OpenUsability for the Common Printing Dialog, the printer industry wants standard technologies and therefore I could simply copy a Mac or Windows dialog.
[15:47] <ogra> well, we could cut out the clicking :)
[15:48] <ScottK> tkamppeter: Heh.  Well they could copy us too.
[15:50] <ccheney> Mac has about the same or less market share as linux, so just get open printing dialog done and have them switch instead ;-)
[16:42] <GuyFromHell> Can anyone point me to the patch ubuntu is using on pidgin so you don't get ugly notify-osd notifications
[16:42] <GuyFromHell> it doesn't seem to be in pidgin's .diff
[16:42] <Laney> try patches.ubuntu.com
[16:43] <GuyFromHell> Laney, wow shiny, never new that existed. i'll look through it
[17:05] <seb128> slangasek, do you have any idea about when the freeze will lift?
[17:07] <dholbach> bdrung, nixternal, james_w, bdmurray (and everybody else who's interest): would you guys have a few spare minutes to have an impromptu meeting to talk about Harvest UI in #harvest
[17:09] <GuyFromHell> damnit, i found it. it's in a patch that also makes the thing require indicator applet >_>
[17:10] <dholbach> to give a bit more background on the above: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest was ported to Django already, but we want to explore how we want a future UI to look
[17:11] <ScottK> GuyFromHell: There's a pidgin-libnotify (or something similar) package that if you remove you'll get no notifications.
[17:12] <GuyFromHell> ScottK, Right, but I've compiled notify-osd and getting the ugly popups from pidgin. I've found the patch of pidgin-libnotify but the patch also makes pidgin-libnotify depend on indicator-applet, which my distro doesn't have
[17:13] <ScottK> GuyFromHell: Oh.  Yes, well the presence of that is what stops the fallback dialogs, I think, but you would probably have more luck in #ayatana as they are upstream from this stuff
[17:14] <GuyFromHell> Ah, that's probably what the maint was thinking. I didn't htink about it like that.
[18:12] <slangasek> seb128: probably shortly after we know whether UNR should get a respin
[18:12] <seb128> slangasek, any chance that will be today?
[18:12] <slangasek> certainly
[18:12] <seb128> cool
[18:13] <slangasek> beuno-afk: 412925> less AJAX seems like a reasonable solution to me ;)
[18:30] <jdstrand> slangasek: hi! re bug #305264, I think we need to get this straightened out because I've got gnutls updates that I need to prepare. my last comment in the bug:
[18:30] <jdstrand> We need to push gnutls12 in Dapper and gnutls26 in Intrepid in -proposed to -security since these fix CVE-2009-2409. Dapper should not be a problem with openldap since openldap uses libssl0.9.8 on Dapper. For Intrepid, openldap will need to be copied as was done with Hardy.
[18:30] <slangasek> jdstrand: so the status of that currently is that there are packages in -proposed that haven't cleared validation?
[18:31] <jdstrand> slangasek: this bug is a mess... so let me try to recap
[18:31] <jdstrand> slangasek: as you probably recall, gnutls made some changes that broke openldap
[18:32] <jdstrand> slangasek: so we had to weigh the benefit of the security update with the brokeness
[18:32] <jdstrand> slangasek: due to upstream having quite a few problems with regressions with one of the CVEs the -security updates were trying to fix, I uploaded them to -proposed for wider testing
[18:32] <jdstrand> slangasek: this was ages ago
[18:33] <jdstrand> slangasek: mathiaz prepared openldap packages to work with the new gnutls in -proposed
[18:33] <jdstrand> (for hardy afaik)
[18:34] <jdstrand> slangasek: gnutls was pocket copied to -security on hardy
[18:34] <jdstrand> slangasek: I thought mathiaz' openldap2.3 went to hardy-updates too... (let me check, the bug still shows as Fix Committed)
[18:35] <slangasek> openldap2.3 has a newer version in hardy-updates than hardy-proposed
[18:35] <slangasek> er, than hardy-security
[18:36] <jdstrand> slangasek: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnutls12/+bug/305264/comments/35 indicates that we had some intrepid testing (the reporter developed the patch upstream, but the 'Thanks' wasn't exactly clear on this point)
[18:37] <jdstrand> slangasek: yes, the hardy task for openldap should be closed
[18:37] <jdstrand> slangasek: dapper can safely go to -security IMO, because it won't break openldap, which was the only thing broken by the gnutls updates, because it still uses libssl
[18:38] <jdstrand> slangasek: which leaves intrepid
[18:39] <jdstrand> slangasek: I've updated the hardy openldap task
[18:39] <slangasek> ok
[18:40] <jdstrand> slangasek: what is your opinion on dapper gnutls12? intrepid gnutls26 and openldap?
[18:40] <slangasek> so we want gnutls26 and openldap copied from intrepid-proposed to intrepid-security && intrepid-updates?
[18:41] <jdstrand> slangasek: yes
[18:42] <jdstrand> slangasek: and really, openldap2.3 should be copied from hardy-updates to hardy-security, while you are at it
[18:42] <slangasek> ok
[18:43] <kees> jdstrand: is that safe?  i.e. it's not built with libs from -updates ?
[18:43] <jdstrand> kees: gnutls26 all went through ubuntu-security-proposed
[18:44] <jdstrand> kees: and was pocket copied to -proposed later
[18:44] <slangasek> jdstrand: how quickly do you need this?  I need an hour or two to finish alpha4 publishing, otherwise if this needs done sooner I can give it my full attention now
[18:45] <jdstrand> slangasek: if you'd like, I can take care of it all... I'm not in ubuntu-sru, so I wanted to talk to you
[18:45] <slangasek> jdstrand: well, -security trumps -updates anyway, so if you're satisfied that these are ready to go to -security, then yeah, go for it
[18:46] <jdstrand> slangasek: ok, thanks
[18:47] <jdstrand> kees: though your point is taken on openldap-- I'll make sure it is ok for -security
[19:53] <mynameisdeleted> latest ubuntu 9.04 and 9.10 totally suck over nfs+nis
[19:53] <mynameisdeleted> mostely has to do with none of the sound-libraries workign I think
[19:54] <mynameisdeleted> oss works but alsa-lib is messed up 100% along with anythign built on it such as pulse audio or port audio or audiolib or anything
[19:54] <mynameisdeleted> does anyone know why this is?
[19:54] <mynameisdeleted> I guess thats a #alsa question
[19:55] <mynameisdeleted> is there a network file system for nis+shared home dirs taht is ubuntu friendly?
[19:55] <mynameisdeleted> and keeps alsa apps working nicely?
[19:56] <mynameisdeleted> maybe its no pipes or something
[20:00] <slangasek> mynameisdeleted: I've not heard of any such problems, and NFS is supposed to give complete POSIX semantics as a filesystem.  I'd suggest opening a bug report against pulseaudio if that's what you're having problems with.
[20:01] <mynameisdeleted> it fails on mplayer with -ao alsa
[20:01] <mynameisdeleted> but not oss
[20:01] <mynameisdeleted> same with the systemsettings
[20:01] <mynameisdeleted> if I test an oss backend thats the only one that works
[20:01] <mynameisdeleted> I have no_root_squash and rw
[20:01] <mynameisdeleted> nto sure if async is useful or matters
[20:02] <mynameisdeleted> I wonder if the same happens over samba
[20:03] <mynameisdeleted> ... I know samba home dir is terrible
[20:03] <mynameisdeleted> maybe afs is better
[20:03] <mynameisdeleted> or pvfs
[20:06] <mynameisdeleted> aroroa is mesed up by this,... as is firefox which opens a sound library
[20:06] <mynameisdeleted> if it was just videogames and music players which haad yet to e switched to oss only mode I'd be happy
[20:07] <mynameisdeleted> konqueror works great if I set to use the oss backend for kubuntu
[20:08] <slangasek> mynameisdeleted: this isn't a help channel, and no, there's no reason this shouldn't work on NFS and therefore no reason to think another network filesystem would work better; as I said, you should file a bug report about your issue
[20:17] <slangasek> seb128: unfrozen
[20:29] <bryce> hrm, launchpadlibrarian.net isn't responding
[20:40] <seb128> slangasek, thanks!
[22:06] <kklimonda> kees: wrt django - would enabling test suite also make it possible to use point releases instead of backporting changes?
[22:11] <kees> kklimonda: it is certainly a prerequisite, but it would take more than just that.  See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[22:12] <kees> kklimonda: so things like "sufficiently high", and "supports micro-version updates to stable releases".  an example of failing the latter is mysql which likes to change/add/remove features in their "micro" releases.
[22:13] <kklimonda> I don't have a link right now but django developers are preparing micro releases that are api stable and contain only bug fixes
[22:20] <kklimonda> kees: do you mind if I take a look at django to enable testsuite or would you rather reporter do it?
[22:22] <kees> kklimonda: micro updates> cool; that sounds very much like a candidate then.
[22:23] <kees> kklimonda: feel free to work on it, but add a comment to the bug report just so you guys can coordinate :)  thanks!
[23:16] <slangasek> bah, why is firefox now making noise at me any time I reload a page that requires re-posting data
[23:17] <maco> the bell, you mean?
[23:17] <maco> or sometihng else?
[23:23] <slangasek> maco: it sounds like the same sound gdm makes (made?) at a login failure
[23:23] <maco> oh
[23:24] <cjwatson> is it the noise about which I filed bug 399778?
[23:25] <cjwatson> (note I've been using firefox-3.5 since rather before it became the default)
[23:25] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Yeah I would probably have to agree with you about that.
[23:25]  * TheMuso just listened to it.