[05:36] <lamalex> kenvandine: is empathy in karmic going to have adium support? or geoclue? or libchamplain?
[05:37] <lamalex> adium theme that is
[09:53] <mac_v> mrooney|w: hi... synaptic is either way going to be replaced in Karmic+1 , IMO , there is no need for a papercut
[09:53] <mac_v> we caould just let the task in synaptic remain and be fixed in synaptic
[09:54] <mac_v> could*
[13:40]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[14:27] <mac_v> djsiegel: i think you misread my comment yesterday
[14:27] <djsiegel> mac_v: which one?
[14:27] <djsiegel> I bet I did :)
[14:29] <mac_v> djsiegel: my reply was not about share / instal but rather a reply to "shouldn't the response be from the perspective of the respondent?"
[14:29] <djsiegel> yes
[14:30] <mac_v> djsiegel: just dont be too hasty in saying someone is bikeshedding  :/ 
[14:31] <djsiegel> mac_v, the bug is fixing the unknown antecedent of "them"
[14:31] <djsiegel> and your comment was that "share the disk" and "use the entire disk" are not phrased from the same perspective?
[14:31] <mac_v> djsiegel: yeah that was fine but adding the "I" , was not
[14:32] <djsiegel> ok, I see
[14:32] <djsiegel> What do you propose instead?
[14:32] <djsiegel> Does it make a difference to users?
[14:33] <djsiegel> Is it harder to use, or less beautiful right now?
[14:33] <djsiegel> If it communicates the choice (users can understand it without difficulty), it is bikeshedding unless there's an alternative that you can provide that is unambiguously better
[14:33] <djsiegel> so do it! :)
[14:33] <mac_v> djsiegel: installers , do not use  "I" , but since it is an installer , it will be in almost all the guides , and will be quickly pointed out
[14:34] <djsiegel> Installers do not use "I"?
[14:34] <djsiegel> Installer starts with "I"!
[14:34] <djsiegel> maybe Ubuntu's installer should be all about "I"
[14:35] <mac_v> thats what i said , if you want all as response ,  "I"  then the 3 need to be changed
[14:35] <djsiegel> So, you think the options should not be from the perspective of the user?
[14:35] <mac_v> I havent seen an installer , which has options like that
[14:36] <mac_v> djsiegel: i think rather than , patching it up , Evan canfix it properly
[14:36] <djsiegel> mac_v, that's fine, but what is your proposal
[14:36] <djsiegel> "show me the code"
[14:36] <mac_v> ah... just a sec
[14:36] <djsiegel> stop arguing these fine details, and just give the improved suggestion
[14:37] <djsiegel> I understand your hesitancy to use "I", but it's possible that using "I" makes the software friendly, easy to use and understand
[14:37] <djsiegel> there is no inviolable law of nature set against the use of "I" in software installers
[14:37] <mac_v> djsiegel: Share the disk with existing installations [ allows choosing between them when You start the computer]
[14:38] <djsiegel> ok, so, you've added a parenthetical voice
[14:38] <djsiegel> I argue that it's now harder to read
[14:38] <mac_v> ok i give up
[14:38] <djsiegel> "share" is imperative
[14:38] <djsiegel> the user is telling the installer to share
[14:38] <djsiegel> then it shifts in voice back to the installer
[14:39] <mac_v> djsiegel: the words within brackets are explanations , similar to the [advanced]
[14:39] <djsiegel> but I do think it's more grammatically correct than my suggestion
[14:39] <mac_v> 3rd option
[14:39] <djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations, choosing between them when I start the computer
[14:39] <djsiegel> "choosing" seems the wrong tense
[14:40] <djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations; allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
[14:40] <djsiegel> two commands
[14:41] <djsiegel> but the semi-colon is recondite
[14:41] <kholerabbi> Share the disk with existing installations and allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
[14:41] <djsiegel> hmm
[14:41] <djsiegel> yes that's good
[14:41] <djsiegel> we're getting longer and longer though
[14:41] <kholerabbi> Sorry, I actually haven't a clue what this is about.
[14:42] <djsiegel> hehe
[14:42] <djsiegel> np, good suggestion kholerabbi
[14:42] <djsiegel> hmm, I'd prefer a comma
[14:42] <djsiegel> Share the disk with existing installations, allow me to choose between them when I start the computer
[14:42] <djsiegel> mac_v, better? ^
[14:43] <mac_v> djsiegel: better , 
[14:43] <djsiegel> "share the disk", "allow me to choose", "use the entire disk"
[14:43] <djsiegel> "specify partitions manually..." is the odd one out
[14:44] <kholerabbi> wtf is empathy telling me "doesn't" is bad spelling O.o
[14:46] <mac_v> djsiegel: "Let me specify manually"
[14:47] <djsiegel> hmm, we're supposed to avoid "letting" the user take action
[14:47] <djsiegel> it makes the user feel like the computer is in control instead of vice versa
[14:47] <mac_v> hmmm..
[14:48] <MDC1> "custom design"
[14:48] <mac_v> djsiegel: "Choose advanced options"
[14:48] <djsiegel> too vague
[14:48] <djsiegel> "Use special partitioning (advanced)"
[14:49] <kholerabbi> 'advanced' should be avoided
[14:51] <mac_v> kholerabbi: advanced needs to be mentioned so that novice users dont mess up
[14:52] <mac_v> djsiegel: i think it sounds good , or "Use advanced partitioning"
[14:53] <djsiegel> "Use advanced partitioning...
[14:53] <djsiegel> and no need for "(advanced)"
[14:53] <djsiegel> great! want to update the bug?
[14:54] <djsiegel> post a new comment with just the suggestions and a small comment, let the "mockup" argue itself
[14:58] <kholerabbi> "Share the disk with existing installations, allow me to choose between them when I start the computer"... I'm tired, so might be nit-picking, but "allowing" sounds more correct than "allow".
[15:07] <mac_v> djsiegel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/400047/comments/14
[15:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in hundredpapercuts "Installer's "Install them side by side" option is vague and confusing" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[15:41] <AnAnt> Hello
[15:41] <AnAnt> is it possible for an app using notify-OSD to disable "truncation" capability from notification daemon ?
[15:42] <AnAnt> if not, how can I know the maximum length of text before it gets truncated ?
[15:45] <mac_v> AnAnt: apps cant override the truncation , i think the limit is in the wiki > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD , if not, ask MacSlow 
[15:45] <MacSlow> correct, apps cannot override that
[15:46] <MacSlow> AnAnt, the reason is to avoid spam
[15:46] <MacSlow> notification-spam
[15:46] <AnAnt> I see
[15:50] <AnAnt> thanks
[15:50] <AnAnt> so, is messaging menu only for messaging (IM / email ...) apps ?
[15:53] <AnAnt> back to the first question, the wiki says that maximum text length is 10 lines
[15:54] <AnAnt> now, how long is a single line?
[15:55] <hyperair> hmm regarding that messaging menu, it appears to be using some strange font hinting that results in the text having a shade of purple
[16:08] <mac_v> hyperair: lol ... bug # ?
[16:08] <hyperair> didn't file one
[16:08]  * hyperair is lazy
[16:09] <hyperair> you can go file it for me =D
[16:09] <mac_v> hyperair: hehe... WFM , so i cant complain ;p
[16:09] <AnAnt> is there a wiki for messaging menu ?
[16:10] <mac_v> AnAnt: search the wiki , there is a page
[16:14] <mac_v> mpt:  about the nautilus spatial mode , are you fixing it or ... ?
[16:15] <hyperair> spatial mode?
[16:16] <hyperair> is that the strange mode that opens a new window with every folder?
[16:16] <mac_v> yeah
[17:06] <mpt> mac_v, no, I haven't done anything about that
[17:07] <mac_v> mpt: ah... should i file a bug?
[17:07] <mac_v> upstream that is
[17:08] <mpt> mac_v, sure
[17:08] <mac_v> mpt: any other alternate name for spatial mode?
[17:08] <mac_v> i'll add that to the bug
[17:09] <mpt> mac_v, as I suggested yesterday, I think the "Open" item should always be there to open in a spatial-mode window, and the "Browse" item always there to open in a browser-mode window
[17:10] <mpt> so, no need for a special term
[17:10] <mac_v> ok
[18:49] <mrooney|w> mac_v: yeah that sounds reasonable
[18:51] <mac_v> mrooney|w: i usually invalidate any synaptic bugs , letting mvo deal with it at his leisure ;)
[19:18] <mrooney|w> mac_v: did you see those 20 papercuts all filed by the same person last night, with the entire bug in the description
[19:18] <mrooney|w> looks like fun!
[19:19] <mac_v> yeah... i have them all bookmarked , to be invalidated ;p most are just new idea!
[19:19] <mac_v> ideas*
[19:20] <mac_v> mrooney|w: you should have seen papercuts initaily , every person would file 10 bugs , all new ideas! once they know wht it is actually they stop
[19:21] <mrooney|w> yeah
[19:21] <mrooney|w> I wish it was clearer that papercuts are just a task and that the bug also needs be placed in the right package
[19:22] <mac_v> mrooney|w: pls , invalidate them , i just got tied up with , with a few crashes in my sys. ,
[19:22] <mac_v> mrooney|w: this should make things easier > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Invalid%20One%20Hundred%20Paper%20Cuts
[19:22] <mrooney|w> I am at work ATM so I may not get to them :)
[19:23] <mac_v> mrooney|w: np ... ok... ;) , i'll get to it later