[20:41] Rocket2DMn: how are you? [20:43] hi dhillon-v10 [20:44] im well, thank you, how are you? [20:44] Rocket2DMn: good [20:44] Rocket2DMn: I got an email from phillbull regarding Mallard, so can how can I start working with it [20:45] dhillon-v10, i haven't a clue about Mallard, sorry [20:45] what is that you want to do with it? [20:46] "We're also looking for writers to work on rewriting the GNOME documentation using a new format called Mallard [2]. This is going to be an extremely big job, but would be a great way to learn about technical writing. " [20:47] Rocket2DMn: that's what I got from phillbull [20:47] dhillon-v10, that sounds like work that would be done upstream at Gnome, not in Ubuntu yet [20:48] There was discussion at the last team meeting about converting our ubuntu-docs stuff to Mallard to align with Gnome, but not yet [20:48] Rocket2DMn: well that was the email I got and how can i join the meetings here... [20:48] Meetings here will be announced on the mailing list [20:49] I don't know anything about Gnome operations upstream though [20:50] Rocket2DMn: I am subscribed to the mailing list but I don't get any email regarding meetings, I check them all [20:51] well we don't have meetings very often, so it's not surprising that you haven't seen any meeting announcements [20:51] if you're on the mailing list, you'll see any discussion about planning the next meeting when it comes time [20:52] Rocket2DMn: Alright, so I am working on modifying wikis and adding some new pages and such, any thing else you would have me do... [20:53] Lol, I'm not in charge here dhillon-v10 :) [20:54] you can email the list to ask for more suggestions if you want [20:54] Rocket2DMn: Oh, I thought you were, nevermind [20:54] :) [20:54] no, mdke is the doc-team lead [20:54] However, if you want wiki work, have a look at the Tag page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag [20:55] anything tagged for Content Cleanup, Style Cleanup, or Expansion need work [20:58] Rocket2DMn: I guess I should say hi to him too... :) [20:58] heh, indeed [20:58] mdke: hi, how are you? [20:59] he is marked as away right now, so it's unlikely he'll respond, but if you stay signed on, he will respond to any notes you leave for him [20:59] Rocket2DMn: how do you find that out???? [21:00] His name is gray on the user list [21:00] I'm using Xchat, if you're using something else, you may have to check somewhere else [21:01] Rocket2DMn: oh I use pidgin, it comes with ubuntu so ... [21:02] Rocket2DMn: I will talk to you later, thanks and bye [21:02] see ya [21:40] dhillon-v10: hi, what can I do for you? [21:41] mdke: sorry to make you wait, just 2 mins.. thanks [21:41] I am on and off irc myself [21:41] so no probl [21:47] hey mdke , what would you like to do with this page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiCleanupProposal [21:48] hmm [21:48] it's rather old [21:49] I'd probably say let's nuke it and keep working on the latest proposal from Marc and Andrew [21:50] alright [21:50] also, what about pages like this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/PageDiscussion [21:50] I'm not sure if we want to keep PageDiscussion pages or not. Either way, there are many with lots of old content [21:51] I'd say not, they aren't helpful for discussing - i much prefer the mailing list [21:51] you want to delete all PageDiscussion pages? [21:52] mdke: Alright so I am back, I wanted to know about mallard [21:52] I wouldn't say all, because they might have useful material in them. if so I think we should think about how to keep them [21:53] but those without useful material, yes [21:53] dhillon-v10: ok. Are you broadly familiar with the difference between Ubuntu and Gnome? [21:53] (not sure what your level of experience is with the Ubuntu ecosystem) [21:54] mdke: yah well gnome is the desktop environment but ubuntu is the whole operating system [21:54] right [21:54] the Gnome project has its own documentation team [21:54] mdke: alright [21:54] sounds good mdke , i know there are some with useful content. or that direct users in how to update some pages. I'll put PageDiscussions on my radar and delete those that aren't helpful. [21:54] they are currently working on a rehash of their documentation to make it easier for distributions like Ubuntu to use it [21:55] mdke: Can I help with that????? [21:55] part of that rehash is a new document language which they will use to write their documents in [21:55] it's called Mallard [21:55] mdke: you are smart :) [21:55] similar to html, if you are familiar with that [21:55] mdke: I am a programmer, working with computer vision [21:55] dhillon-v10: I haven't said anything smart so far ;) [21:56] mdke - delete the two pages I linked you to? I only ask b/c they are doc-team pages. [21:56] you can definitely help contribute to the Gnome documentation team, if you like [21:56] Rocket2DMn: yes, I think so (if you agree) [21:56] dhillon-v10: the Gnome documentation team has its own mailing list and irc channel so the first step is to join those [21:56] mdke: well for the most part computer vision is my area of work, is there anything other than wikis that needs to be worked upon [21:57] mdke: I know that and I have joined it [21:57] i do agree mdke , but i'm pretty liberal with the delete button, so i just wanted to make sure :) [21:57] Rocket2DMn: cool [21:57] dhillon-v10: what do you mean by computer vision? [21:57] mdke: It is the art of making computers see what we humans do using solid mathematics [21:58] ok [21:59] if you'd like to contribute to Gnome documentation, I'd say just contact the mailing list and ask how you can help [21:59] if you'd like to contribute to Ubuntu documentation, we'd love that too :) [21:59] mdke: I am working on some wikis is there anything else [21:59] the thing to do there is to visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam and read on :) [22:00] there should be plenty of information there about how to find things to work on, but feel free to ask if you have any other questions [22:00] mdke: I have been guided by Rocket2DMn and I have read some pages there as well [22:01] great [22:02] mdke: so what should I do now? [22:02] dhillon-v10: that's kinda up to you, it depends on what you are interested in [22:03] mdke: What about system documentation [22:03] yes, plenty to do there [22:03] so [22:03] there is likely to be plenty to do in updating the documentation to the new features in karmic [22:04] for example, the move to empathy as an irc client, and I'm sure there are plenty of other user visible changes [22:04] another thing we are missing is documentation for connecting to bluetooth devices, if you have had any experience with that on Ubuntu [22:05] mdke: what should I do to get to those pages and write out what I can [22:05] you'll need to read the system documentation pages quite carefully, those will tell you how things work and where to get copies of the documents [22:05] there is no substitute for reading those pages, but it's quite easy to pick up [22:06] I'm referring to the wiki pages at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation [22:09] mdke: I had a look at those pages before but I don't see a ubuntu karamic branch [22:09] where? [22:11] mdke: sorry I wasn't specific enough: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc-project [22:12] yeah, that's a bit confusing actually [22:12] it's here - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-karmic [22:12] I'll see if I can clarify the page, unfortunately Launchpad is a bit unhelpful about how it presents the branches [22:13] mdke: Please don't get me wrong but are you sure that's the right page... [22:13] yes [22:14] mdke: alright I will get the branch and then how do i proceed [22:16] what do you want to do? [22:17] mdke: Update the documentation for various packages [22:19] you need to identify some material that needs to be changed, change it, and then submit a patch as described in the Editing, Checking and Submitting pages on the wiki [22:20] mdke: Oh that was simpler than I thought [22:20] :) [22:22] see how you go [22:23] mdke: do you recommed this work to be done under a virtual machine or not [22:23] editing the documentation doesn't have to be at all [22:23] but trying karmic out is probably best done in a virtual machine [22:25] mdke: alright thanks and nice talking to you [22:25] dhillon-v10: same, catch you soon [22:25] bye [22:26] * mdke notices that doc.ubuntu.com is still working on jaunty [22:26] *cough* [22:28] man every time I go to clean up stuff on the wiki, I find another set of things that need to be done [22:28] lol [22:28] hah [22:28] you're doing awesome work on the wiki [22:29] thanks for that [22:31] sure thing, i would just like to see some order on the wiki. I think it would be a lot more useful that way [22:31] requires a lot of pruning and constant upkeep [22:31] * mdke nods [22:32] the summer of documentation has been going well, people are putting out some great work - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development [22:33] nice :) [22:33] we should have a page like that for the whole team, do you think it would work? [22:33] I'm not sure if it would work, I think it's been tried before, hasn't it? [22:34] it's a damn site better than DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks [22:34] I basically took pages that were Tagged or had older Categories - ones I thought BT members should be able to handle, and just listed them for covenience [22:35] it looks like it's been a great success [22:35] yes, I get quite a few requests for ideas about "what should i work on next", i havent always been able to keep up [22:35] * mdke nods [22:35] the age old problem really [22:36] however, directing users to the doc-team pages is best. Members can get their hands dirty with stuff I start them off with, then are more comfortable and can jump further into the doc team [22:36] at that point they can find their own way [22:37] that's the whole point really [22:37] right but we need to keep the docteam pages updated with current tasks [22:38] never easy [22:38] I like the list you've done there [22:39] yeah, it's tough to stay on top of it. When I finish some other tasks I have on my list, I'll see if I can come up with a proposal for a similar method for the whole doc-team. [22:40] I guess the tag system is the way forward [22:40] I don't know whether that is effectively used or not, but it should work in theory [22:41] the biggest problem I've had with the tag system is that when you want to see the list, it can only show 10 per page [22:42] perhaps there is a simple way around that which I haven't discovered. regardless, it's not user friendly in that sense [22:42] I wonder if we can fix that [22:42] surely we can fix it [22:43] hopefully it's as simple as adding a parameter to the URL [22:45] Rocket2DMn: we could create pages like this one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag/Unsupported/List [22:46] mdke, that is brilliant, why didn't I think of that! [22:46] :) [22:47] the only thing better would be to have the ability to separate the listings by letter, not sure if the search function can produce output that complex though [22:47] either way, that is much more user friendly since it is all in one place [22:47] not as far as i know, but feel free to look into it :) [22:49] the TitleIndex page does it, perhaps there is a way to harness it's capability in search queries [22:49] possibly [22:49] if you fancy creating a new more of those pages and linking to them on the "Tag" page, go ahead. Otherwise I'll try and do it over the weekend [22:49] bed for now [22:50] I'll put it on my radar, but you can go ahead and do it, you'll probably get to it first [22:50] cool, will do [22:50] cya [22:50] alright, good night