[20:41] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: how are you?
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> hi dhillon-v10
[20:44] <Rocket2DMn> im well, thank you, how are you?
[20:44] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: good
[20:44] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I got an email from phillbull regarding Mallard, so can how can I start working with it
[20:45] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, i haven't a clue about Mallard, sorry
[20:45] <Rocket2DMn> what is that you want to do with it?
[20:46] <dhillon-v10> "We're also looking for writers to work on rewriting the GNOME documentation using a new format called Mallard [2]. This is going to be an extremely big job, but would be a great way to learn about technical writing. "
[20:47] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: that's what I got from phillbull
[20:47] <Rocket2DMn> dhillon-v10, that sounds like work that would be done upstream at Gnome, not in Ubuntu yet
[20:48] <Rocket2DMn> There was discussion at the last team meeting about converting our ubuntu-docs stuff to Mallard to align with Gnome, but not yet
[20:48] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: well that was the email I got and how can i join the meetings here...
[20:48] <Rocket2DMn> Meetings here will be announced on the mailing list
[20:49] <Rocket2DMn> I don't know anything about Gnome operations upstream though
[20:50] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I am subscribed to the mailing list but I don't get any email regarding meetings, I check them all
[20:51] <Rocket2DMn> well we don't have meetings very often, so it's not surprising that you haven't seen any meeting announcements
[20:51] <Rocket2DMn> if you're on the mailing list, you'll see any discussion about planning the next meeting when it comes time
[20:52] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Alright, so I am working on modifying wikis and adding some new pages and such, any thing else you would have me do...
[20:53] <Rocket2DMn> Lol, I'm not in charge here dhillon-v10 :)
[20:54] <Rocket2DMn> you can email the list to ask for more suggestions if you want
[20:54] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: Oh, I thought you were, nevermind
[20:54] <dhillon-v10> :)
[20:54] <Rocket2DMn> no, mdke is the doc-team lead
[20:54] <Rocket2DMn> However, if you want wiki work, have a look at the Tag page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
[20:55] <Rocket2DMn> anything tagged for Content Cleanup, Style Cleanup, or Expansion need work
[20:58] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I guess I should say hi to him too...  :)
[20:58] <Rocket2DMn> heh, indeed
[20:58] <dhillon-v10> mdke: hi, how are you?
[20:59] <Rocket2DMn> he is marked as away right now, so it's unlikely he'll respond, but if you stay signed on, he will respond to any notes you leave for him
[20:59] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: how do you find that out????
[21:00] <Rocket2DMn> His name is gray on the user list
[21:00] <Rocket2DMn> I'm using Xchat, if you're using something else, you may have to check somewhere else
[21:01] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: oh I use pidgin, it comes with ubuntu so ...
[21:02] <dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: I will talk to you later, thanks and bye
[21:02] <Rocket2DMn> see ya
[21:40] <mdke> dhillon-v10: hi, what can I do for you?
[21:41] <dhillon-v10> mdke: sorry to make you wait, just 2 mins..  thanks
[21:41] <mdke> I am on and off irc myself
[21:41] <mdke> so no probl
[21:47] <Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , what would you like to do with this page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiCleanupProposal
[21:48] <mdke> hmm
[21:48] <Rocket2DMn> it's rather old
[21:49] <mdke> I'd probably say let's nuke it and keep working on the latest proposal from Marc and Andrew
[21:50] <Rocket2DMn> alright
[21:50] <Rocket2DMn> also, what about pages like this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/PageDiscussion
[21:50] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure if we want to keep PageDiscussion pages or not.  Either way, there are many with lots of old content
[21:51] <mdke> I'd say not, they aren't helpful for discussing - i much prefer the mailing list
[21:51] <Rocket2DMn> you want to delete all PageDiscussion pages?
[21:52] <dhillon-v10> mdke: Alright so I am back, I wanted to know about mallard
[21:52] <mdke> I wouldn't say all, because they might have useful material in them. if so I think we should think about how to keep them
[21:53] <mdke> but those without useful material, yes
[21:53] <mdke> dhillon-v10: ok. Are you broadly familiar with the difference between Ubuntu and Gnome?
[21:53] <mdke> (not sure what your level of experience is with the Ubuntu ecosystem)
[21:54] <dhillon-v10> mdke: yah well gnome is the desktop environment but ubuntu is the whole operating system
[21:54] <mdke> right
[21:54] <mdke> the Gnome project has its own documentation team
[21:54] <dhillon-v10> mdke: alright
[21:54] <Rocket2DMn> sounds good mdke , i know there are some with useful content. or that direct users in how to update some pages.  I'll put PageDiscussions on my radar and delete those that aren't helpful.
[21:54] <mdke> they are currently working on a rehash of their documentation to make it easier for distributions like Ubuntu to use it
[21:55] <dhillon-v10> mdke: Can I help with that?????
[21:55] <mdke> part of that rehash is a new document language which they will use to write their documents in
[21:55] <mdke> it's called Mallard
[21:55] <dhillon-v10> mdke: you are smart :)
[21:55] <mdke> similar to html, if you are familiar with that
[21:55] <dhillon-v10> mdke: I am a programmer, working with computer vision
[21:55] <mdke> dhillon-v10: I haven't said anything smart so far ;)
[21:56] <Rocket2DMn> mdke - delete the two pages I linked you to?  I only ask b/c they are doc-team pages.
[21:56] <mdke> you can definitely help contribute to the Gnome documentation team, if you like
[21:56] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, I think so (if you agree)
[21:56] <mdke> dhillon-v10: the Gnome documentation team has its own mailing list and irc channel so the first step is to join those
[21:56] <dhillon-v10> mdke: well for the most part computer vision is my area of work, is there anything other than wikis that needs to be worked upon
[21:57] <dhillon-v10> mdke: I know that and I have joined it
[21:57] <Rocket2DMn> i do agree mdke , but i'm pretty liberal with the delete button, so i just wanted to make sure :)
[21:57] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: cool
[21:57] <mdke> dhillon-v10: what do you mean by computer vision?
[21:57] <dhillon-v10> mdke: It is the art of making computers see what we humans do using solid mathematics
[21:58] <mdke> ok
[21:59] <mdke> if you'd like to contribute to Gnome documentation, I'd say just contact the mailing list and ask how you can help
[21:59] <mdke> if you'd like to contribute to Ubuntu documentation, we'd love that too :)
[21:59] <dhillon-v10> mdke: I am working on some wikis is there anything else
[21:59] <mdke> the thing to do there is to visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam and read on :)
[22:00] <mdke> there should be plenty of information there about how to find things to work on, but feel free to ask if you have any other questions
[22:00] <dhillon-v10> mdke: I have been guided by Rocket2DMn and I have read some pages there as well
[22:01] <mdke> great
[22:02] <dhillon-v10> mdke: so what should I do now?
[22:02] <mdke> dhillon-v10: that's kinda up to you, it depends on what you are interested in
[22:03] <dhillon-v10> mdke: What about system documentation
[22:03] <mdke> yes, plenty to do there
[22:03] <mdke> so
[22:03] <mdke> there is likely to be plenty to do in updating the documentation to the new features in karmic
[22:04] <mdke> for example, the move to empathy as an irc client, and I'm sure there are plenty of other user visible changes
[22:04] <mdke> another thing we are missing is documentation for connecting to bluetooth devices, if you have had any experience with that on Ubuntu
[22:05] <dhillon-v10> mdke: what should I do to get to those pages and write out what I can
[22:05] <mdke> you'll need to read the system documentation pages quite carefully, those will tell you how things work and where to get copies of the documents
[22:05] <mdke> there is no substitute for reading those pages, but it's quite easy to pick up
[22:06] <mdke> I'm referring to the wiki pages at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation
[22:09] <dhillon-v10> mdke: I had a look at those pages before but I don't see a ubuntu karamic branch
[22:09] <mdke> where?
[22:11] <dhillon-v10> mdke: sorry I wasn't specific enough:  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc-project
[22:12] <mdke> yeah, that's a bit confusing actually
[22:12] <mdke> it's here - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-karmic
[22:12] <mdke> I'll see if I can clarify the page, unfortunately Launchpad is a bit unhelpful about how it presents the branches
[22:13] <dhillon-v10> mdke: Please don't get me wrong but are you sure that's the right page...
[22:13] <mdke> yes
[22:14] <dhillon-v10> mdke: alright I will get the branch and then how do i proceed
[22:16] <mdke> what do you want to do?
[22:17] <dhillon-v10> mdke: Update the documentation for various packages
[22:19] <mdke> you need to identify some material that needs to be changed, change it, and then submit a patch as described in the Editing, Checking and Submitting pages on the wiki
[22:20] <dhillon-v10> mdke: Oh that was simpler than I thought
[22:20] <dhillon-v10> :)
[22:22] <mdke> see how you go
[22:23] <dhillon-v10> mdke: do you recommed this work to be done under a virtual machine or not
[22:23] <mdke> editing the documentation doesn't have to be at all
[22:23] <mdke> but trying karmic out is probably best done in a virtual machine
[22:25] <dhillon-v10> mdke: alright thanks and nice talking to you
[22:25] <mdke> dhillon-v10: same, catch you soon
[22:25] <dhillon-v10> bye
[22:26]  * mdke notices that doc.ubuntu.com is still working on jaunty
[22:26] <mdke> *cough*
[22:28] <Rocket2DMn> man every time I go to clean up stuff on the wiki, I find another set of things that need to be done
[22:28] <Rocket2DMn> lol
[22:28] <mdke> hah
[22:28] <mdke> you're doing awesome work on the wiki
[22:29] <mdke> thanks for that
[22:31] <Rocket2DMn> sure thing, i would just like to see some order on the wiki.  I think it would be a lot more useful that way
[22:31] <Rocket2DMn> requires a lot of pruning and constant upkeep
[22:31]  * mdke nods
[22:32] <Rocket2DMn> the summer of documentation has been going well, people are putting out some great work - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
[22:33] <mdke> nice :)
[22:33] <mdke> we should have a page like that for the whole team, do you think it would work?
[22:33] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not sure if it would work, I think it's been tried before, hasn't it?
[22:34] <mdke> it's a damn site better than DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks
[22:34] <Rocket2DMn> I basically took pages that were Tagged or had older Categories - ones I thought BT members should be able to handle, and just listed them for covenience
[22:35] <mdke> it looks like it's been a great success
[22:35] <Rocket2DMn> yes, I get quite a few requests for ideas about "what should i work on next", i havent always been able to keep up
[22:35]  * mdke nods
[22:35] <mdke> the age old problem really
[22:36] <Rocket2DMn> however, directing users to the doc-team pages is best.  Members can get their hands dirty with stuff I start them off with, then are more comfortable and can jump further into the doc team
[22:36] <Rocket2DMn> at that point they can find their own way
[22:37] <Rocket2DMn> that's the whole point really
[22:37] <mdke> right but we need to keep the docteam pages updated with current tasks
[22:38] <mdke> never easy
[22:38] <mdke> I like the list you've done there
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, it's tough to stay on top of it.  When I finish some other tasks I have on my list, I'll see if I can come up with a proposal for a similar method for the whole doc-team.
[22:40] <mdke> I guess the tag system is the way forward
[22:40] <mdke> I don't know whether that is effectively used or not, but it should work in theory
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> the biggest problem I've had with the tag system is that when you want to see the list, it can only show 10 per page
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> perhaps there is a simple way around that which I haven't discovered.  regardless, it's not user friendly in that sense
[22:42] <mdke> I wonder if we can fix that
[22:42] <mdke> surely we can fix it
[22:43] <Rocket2DMn> hopefully it's as simple as adding a parameter to the URL
[22:45] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: we could create pages like this one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag/Unsupported/List
[22:46] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, that is brilliant, why didn't I think of that!
[22:46] <mdke> :)
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> the only thing better would be to have the ability to separate the listings by letter, not sure if the search function can produce output that complex though
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> either way, that is much more user friendly since it is all in one place
[22:47] <mdke> not as far as i know, but feel free to look into it :)
[22:49] <Rocket2DMn> the TitleIndex page does it, perhaps there is a way to harness it's capability in search queries
[22:49] <mdke> possibly
[22:49] <mdke> if you fancy creating a new more of those pages and linking to them on the "Tag" page, go ahead. Otherwise I'll try and do it over the weekend
[22:49] <mdke> bed for now
[22:50] <Rocket2DMn> I'll put it on my radar, but you can go ahead and do it, you'll probably get to it first
[22:50] <mdke> cool, will do
[22:50] <mdke> cya
[22:50] <Rocket2DMn> alright, good night