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BiosElementdoctormo, Already here. I can be sneaky like that. >.>03:47
doctormoBiosElement: Welcome, or re welcome, delete as apply03:47
doctormopleia2: hey, you may be interested in this03:47
BiosElementhaha, Just Welcome. First time I've been in here. Was reading through some of the wiki docs/Mailing archive.03:48
pleia2doctormo: hm?03:49
doctormoI haven't seen artv61 before here either,03:49
* doctormo waves03:49
pleia2doctormo: oh yeah, you mangled my nick a bit in your post :)03:50
pleia2(or your spellchecker mangled it)03:50
doctormopleia2: If you have a few moments going spare, I'd like to walk through course creation so far as I do it, and then we can merge brains on the subject and see if it's the best method.03:50
doctormopleia2: Sorry about that,03:50
pleia2doctormo: cool, I have time now :)03:50
pleia2no problem, just thought I'd point it out03:51
* doctormo has just fixed the blog entry03:51
doctormoOK, so right now what I do is I take a look at the structures and suggestions outlines by the general public's input on each of the pages, for instance for the sys-admin course I look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics03:52
doctormoI then break that down, prune it and produce a list of major topics to cover over a set period of weeks. I decided the inital sys-admin course would be 10 weeks and I've pruned anything else for extra classes to be added later.03:53
* pleia2 nods03:53
pleia2primarily this is something you do yourself, touching base with peers on IRC for suggestions?03:53
doctormoEach week when I come to a class, I take the suggested sub topics from that same page (of any) and I do research (if required) on various parts. I copy over the lesson plan odf and write an outline of the presentation section and a general outline of the practical section, then a list of materials required.03:54
doctormopleia2: So far, no peers. The input from the topics wiki page should be a good grounding point for what the community is looking for. Peer review is most useful when there is something solid in front of the reviewer.03:55
* pleia2 nods03:55
doctormoThe lesson plan document will most likely change over the time of the writing03:55
doctormoI then set about writing the over view document, copying it in from the previous week and writing out descriptions of each section. I also draw up a list of diagrams that will be required for the document.03:56
doctormoThis then gives you a good way to think about if each section in turn is making assumptions about the students prior exposure to the subject and making sure the sections are ordered correctly.03:56
doctormoIt also helps if all basics and concepts required are covered in previous classes. Build upon it etc.03:57
doctormoEach header in the overview is taken from the lesson plan, if things change, the lesson plan document should be changed too.03:58
doctormoI then set about writing the practical document, once again copying over the odf and then copy in the lesson plan section, writing each header's contents, trying to make the tasks introductory at first and then leading into the dificult. The idea is to explain to students that they can be challenged, but also that they can find practice at their level.03:59
doctormoThere can be a homework section, I've been setting remaining work as homework03:59
doctormoAll students in my class are _required_ to operate an Ubuntu computer that they are administrators of.04:00
doctormoat home04:00
pleia2for the sysadmin course specifically?04:00
pleia2and do you find having strict requirements helps?04:00
doctormoIt's up to the planning of the course what the requirements are04:00
pleia2good to know04:01
doctormoRequirements help the student understand what will be expected of them. If I say "You will need an Ubuntu computer (already installed) and know how to use the desktop." and they don't, then I can't distract the rest of the students in the class while I try and teach or fix the problem.04:01
* pleia2 nods04:02
doctormoI also set a fixed class, I'm trying to make sure all students come to all classes, make sure they have links to all documents and have reminders to show up in person.04:02
doctormoSo far, retention has been very high (130%) (some people joined late) :-P04:02
doctormoOk back tot he show04:03
pleia2this all sounds very reasonable04:03
doctormoOK I now make sure the revision and modification dates in each ODF footer is set correctly (today's date and 01)04:03
doctormoAnd I take out the list of drawings for the overview and draw each one in inkscape, it's acceptable to sumit the list to a peered artist of the group (such as myself), I insert into the odf each drawing at the required points.04:04
pleia2good thing, I'm useless with artwork :)04:05
doctormoEach svg is converted to png before it's inserted, just to make sure things are readable and so on.04:05
doctormoNow is the time to get the documents saved as PDF files (all three) and get them uploaded somewhere so you can get peer review.04:05
doctormoA good way will be to send a message to the contributors mailing list with a standard prefix for the subject line.04:06
* pleia2 nods04:06
doctormoPeer reviewing should be considered just as an important job as the writing. Peer reviewers should be rewarded if possible with credits of some kind.04:06
doctormo3 brains are good.04:07
pleia2hmm, I think we should probably be doing this on the mailing list04:07
pleia2I see your posts on the planet, but it'd be good for everyone on the mailing list to get links04:07
doctormoI then take a look at the remaining materials for the class and I divide them up into two sections, "creative-materials" and "classroom prep". Creative materials are things like the cheet sheet and the identifying ports sheets. These are there to help the student with references and such that will be helpful in the class.04:08
pleia2right now the mailing list is pretty multi-purpose, I'd like to see meeting announcements, peer review, ideas and things all put there for now - plus it will give us a nice indicator of how much traffic there will be so we can split into LP mailing lists at a later date04:08
* pleia2 nods04:09
pleia2welcome sagaci04:09
doctormoClassroom prep goes into setup for the event. Enough time has to be given to find and set up all classroom materials. For instance the Local Computer section required access to computers for students to take apart and put back together.04:09
doctormohey sagaci04:09
* BiosElement waves to sagaci04:09
sagaciso when do you think this will get underway04:10
doctormoEach of the creative materials are converted into pdf files in what ever way possible, it's important to retain all sources (svg/odf...) and submit those as CC-BY-SA too, we should require that.04:10
doctormosagaci: It's underway04:10
doctormosagaci: We are in the midst of creating courses.04:11
sagaciwill it be time based or open for anyone to start at anytime04:11
pleia2I'm not sure how moodle works, I'm wondering whether we want to track all of this in Moodle or start using bzr in launchpad for all these materials04:11
pleia2a mix of both, probably04:12
pleia2sagaci: anyone can start contributing at any time :)04:12
doctormopleia2: We need to talk more with other board members, but my thoughts are more towards sources in bzr with tracking and access (so people can create branches and dirivitives easy) and then we use moodle as the publish platform (not the development platofrm)04:12
pleia2doctormo: good plan :)04:13
doctormosagaci: Depends, if you want to contribute to the creation and development of course materials, then this is the time and place for you. If you want to learn from a class, then you need to set up a class with your LoCo or ask the Ubuntu Classrooms team about set courses (can you confirm this is the right advice?)04:13
pleia2doctormo: that's correct04:13
sagaciso it's not online?04:14
pleia2sagaci: you are interested in taking the classes?04:14
doctormopleia2: With that organisation of development tools vs publishing tools, it'll be much easier to identify the current revision of offically team published courses. Vs, any old derivitive created by others and push on us.04:14
sagaciyes, i'm also interested in learning about moodle itself, being a content management system, since I'm doing ICT units at uni04:15
pleia2doctormo: absolutely04:15
pleia2sagaci: currently up on our Moodle site we have a Moodle course w/ videos: http://learn.ufbt.net/04:15
doctormosagaci: Then it may be worthwhile joining in with the creation process, you may have to put in a bit of work, but you'll learn a ton.04:15
BiosElementsagaci, Would a "using moodle" course be in need then?04:16
doctormoBiosElement: This is my thought for you, if you don't mind me presumpting a bit...04:16
sagaciyeah, i'm at the end of the month as far as bandwidth goes, so i'll check that out soon04:16
pleia2sagaci: you can log in with your launchpad openid login (can use https://launchpad.net/~your-launchpad-name)04:17
sagacii wouldn't be able to create too much stuff straight off the bat, but i'd prefer just looking at the materials, even if they are in a primitive state04:17
pleia2to the moodle site04:17
doctormoBiosElement: What I'm trying in here is the basic outline of the crafting section of the "how to contribute" course. A section will be for moodle publishing and a section for bzr branching for development. We'll build up a set of materials to teach course creation to others...04:17
doctormo /trying/typing/04:18
doctormoBiosElement: I'd be extatic if your first act was to formalise these notes into a section class as described in the notes (kind of helps learning too :-D)04:19
doctormo /extatic/very, very happy/04:19
BiosElementhaha, Aight.04:19
doctormoSo, one of the sections (but not this "course creation" one) will be "Teaching a physical class"04:22
doctormoAlso worth putting in, "Before you begin, you will be required to release your works as Creative Commons, Share Alike, Attribution if you wish for your course to be included in the published set of offical unoffical ubuntu learning materials"04:25
* pleia2 nods04:26
doctormoSo be sure that you accept these upload restrictions. If your creating a dirivitive work, then you will be required to release as CC-BY-SA anyway.04:26
BiosElementAye, Make sure you stress that point. Just to prevent confusion.04:27
doctormoBiosElement: So the first thing is creating a list of sections, would you like me to begin it?04:27
doctormoBiosElement: That point should be at the start! :-D04:27
BiosElementAnd middle, and bottom. >.>04:27
BiosElementAnd sure.04:27
pleia2yay :)04:28
doctormoBiosElement: So, want to make a wiki page of topics to cover and we can get you started? would you like me to mentor you on this for a while?04:34
doctormopleia2: Now on to you :-D04:34
pleia2doctormo: task assignment? hehe04:35
doctormoSorry if it looks like I'm taking charge, sometimes tis only way. let me know if you disagree and I will normally conceed quickly.04:35
pleia2want me to get rolling on Desktop stuff?04:35
BiosElementSomeone has to take charge. >.>04:35
pleia2doctormo: oh no, it works fine for me04:35
doctormopleia2: Right, but I want to just go through with you how I teach it04:35
pleia2ok, sounds good04:35
BiosElementAhh, I'm sure you've got a grasp on some version of the "bigger picture" so until I can claim to have a better one have at it. ^_^ And sure you can make the page and yeah that would be helpful.04:36
doctormoOk so the first section is called "The Introduction and Familarisation" section, it's the one we teach the most. In fact we teach it every week to all the many people that get given Ubuntu machiens from the community center, or get it installed when their Windows goes on the fritz and we convince them Ubuntu is awesome.04:37
doctormoBiosElement: I will expect your peer review of the page and your editing of it with your own ideas, don't forget we got sub headers. So for now just copy down what I wrote above and try and place it logically into sections.04:38
BiosElementThat's the plan.04:38
doctormofull steam ahead04:38
* doctormo pulls the ships horn04:38
pleia2ok, I'm going to try to get my bit started tomorrow evening, I'll let you know if I have any questions about your process04:41
doctormopleia2: OK so this section goes like this: "This is Ubuntu", "What is Ubuntu", "Desktop Introduction", "How does this make money", "Where can I get it and how much", "Where can I buy a machine" (optional) and "What do I need to be aware of"04:41
* pleia2 nods04:42
doctormoThis is Ubuntu: Show students desktop, helps if you have one comptuer per student. This part is quick and a very physical act, so not really good for an irc classroom.04:42
doctormoWhat is Ubuntu: Ubuntu is an operating system like Windows or Mac that is very new, it's fast, has all the applications such as internet, word processor, speadsheets, music and video. It can't get viruses because of the speed of fixes and the craftmanship of the system, and it's free.04:43
pleia2doctormo: sorry - this is your outline for the first desktop thing you teach?04:44
doctormopleia2: yes04:44
pleia2ok, gotcha04:44
doctormoDesktop Introduction: This is split into each sub section and is a practical exercise (so students are expected to follow along with the teacher's actions), "Applications Menu", "Add Remove Programs", "04:45
* pleia2 reviewing wiki page too04:47
doctormo"Places Menu" (explaining that it's where are your documents are), "Opening Home Folder (nautilus)", "Navigate around, open up some examples", "close any open windows", "System Menu, preferences only effect you as a user and Administration effects the whole computer", "Each user should have a user account, don't share passwords",...04:47
* pleia2 nods04:48
doctormo"Quick Links (sometimes we add and remove quicklinks showing that they are synonimous with application menu applications)", Networking pannel, selecting wifi networks and knowing when your online, volume control, date and time with calendar, show them how to add a "location" to get the weather and how to set between two different locations.04:49
sagaciwill this target a certain version of ubuntu be generalised04:49
doctormosagaci: It'll have to change as required, I teach this from memory.04:49
pleia2good question, doctormo - do you use LTS?04:49
BiosElementFYI I think it may be a good idea to leave the "Sub-Sub Section bits for their own page to whoever is writing up the first course.04:49
doctormoWe teach 9.04 now, but last week we taught LTS. The problem was that some of the user switcher know how was out of date.04:50
* pleia2 nods04:50
doctormoBiosElement: Those sub-sub sections are headers for the one overview document.04:50
* doctormo is sorry for dumping all this knowlege on you guys all at once :-D04:50
BiosElementhaha, I know it's cool. I just think it'll make things more confusing in the long run. Though I may be wrong.04:51
sagacii think that's the problem with published books, by the time they are released and in bookstores (at least around me) another version has superseded that one and the next one is one it's way04:51
doctormopleia2: After the date/time, we show user switching and explain (but not show) shutting down menus.04:51
* pleia2 nods04:51
doctormosagaci: The idea is that this is a development, community based material. So we have bzr branches and such to be updated as required. We could branch at each release or indeed package it up for desktop access :-P04:52
BiosElementdoctormo, I love you. >.> I've been nagging people for months to start a desktop wiki-ish help doc and been laughed at >.>04:52
doctormoBiosElement: It might, but the topics section is how the outline is defined for a whole course, given that I've given the community time to add their thoughts about what topics are worth going over.04:52
doctormoThe topics in the wiki become very roughly after MUCH editing, the lesson plan as described in the above notes.04:53
BiosElementAye, I agree.04:54
sagacii think you'd have to be fairly proactive and push the idea at beta and RC time for karmic, at least have a working model from the jaunty idea and update it swiftly for karmic04:54
doctormopleia2: After shutdown, we breifly describe the bottom bar, desktop button, task list, we don't have a way to show notifications, but we would if we could. We then show the virtual desktop, getting students to load up apps and then switch desktops. We then load the updater to show how to do updates and put that on a different desktop. Breifly noting the trash can icon.04:55
pleia2sounds good04:56
doctormosagaci: Not required really, most of the know how of most of these lessons will modify by the degree of human API changes (i.e. UI modifications) of the default install, and most of the concepts wouldn't change ever.04:56
doctormopleia2: This lesson normally takes 1 hour to teach to a group of 5 students.04:56
pleia2doctormo: that's the whole thing?04:57
doctormothere may be questions through out the practical part, answer them ad-hoc.04:57
sagacii guess it'd just be used from Pidgin > Empathy, and rhythmbox > banshee (if that happens)04:57
* pleia2 nods04:57
doctormopleia2: There are the last sections "How does this make money", "Where can I get it and how much", "Where can I buy a machine" (optional) and "What do I need to be aware of"04:57
pleia2oh right04:57
pleia2that's still the same 1 hour class?04:58
doctormoGenerally yes, depending on the speed of students it can over run by 20 mins. I'm fairly good at teaching this class now that I know I can describe everything.04:58
* pleia2 nods04:59
doctormoHow does this make money: Ubuntu is what is known as Free and Open Source Software. This is a different way to make software than how windows is made. Where tradtionally each copy of software that has already been made will cost money. But this software already exists and it costs us nothing to give you a copy of what already exists, what does cost us money is development, making things better and fixing problems and making new tools.05:02
doctormoThis is how we are paid for the work we do, most of the money comes from large companies that want these improvements, and you get those improvements for free. You can of course put your own money in, if you want something new. But most desktop users are happy with what already exists.05:03
pleia2good stuff05:03
doctormo(this part needed to be written because people would ask "but why is it free, will it expire etc etc"05:03
* pleia2 nods05:03
doctormoWhere can I get it and how much: You can take a CD from me, or you can download it from the website, or I can help you install it at next week's session. Ir's all free.05:04
doctormoWhere can I buy a machine: You can get a machine that comes with Ubuntu from HP, Dell, ZaReason and System76. Each are differently priced (proffer website addresses)05:05
* pleia2 nods05:05
doctormoWhat do I need to be aware of: You can't run all windows programs in Ubuntu, some you can get working, but most software is provided from the repository and there are alternatives to most software. Games sometimes have Ubuntu versions (sometimes labeled as Linux) and most games will work under wine, we can help you set that up if you need to. There is a community of people who can help you if you get into trouble (we have Tuesday05:08
doctormonights, every week as our community outreach support) and you can bring in your computer on that night and get help, there are paid for personal support from some of our members and they can come round to your house and fix any problems.05:08
doctormoBe aware that some printers don't work, Lexmarks. All HP printers will work, so if you have one of those, it should just work when you plug it in.05:08
doctormoLet us know if your having trouble finding software or hardware that works.05:09
pleia2great list05:09
doctormoNote to Teacher: We never, ever mention Linux, Gnu or any of the tech, this is bad branding. We explain when asked that Linux is the kernel and is used in many devices, tomtom navs, tivos and google phones, it's not useful to use "Linux" as a name because what will work on Ubuntu will not work on any of those devices.05:11
doctormoIt breeds only confusion and also calls forth any and all bad experences with Linux people or previous Linux distrobutions. We don't need that kind of headache.05:11
* pleia2 nods05:12
BiosElementI'll be back for a few minutes later. Off to grab some food >.>05:17
doctormoSo, Ubuntu != Linux, Ubuntu contains Linux, but also many other things. Ubuntu is the operating system, Linux is the memory, task and hardware manager aka Kernel. :-D05:17
doctormoOK, so now I'm all done. any questions on this impromtue double irc class room experence?05:17
pleia2not at the moment, but I'm sure I will once I've processed it further :)05:18
doctormopleia2: Have I helped you with your own possible classes? do some of the elements seem to missing from your current go at it?05:18
pleia2doctormo: this sounds perfect for our classes actually05:19
doctormoBiosElement: Oh, oh, i forgot to mention "Teach the class once it's made" you need to be able to teach any class you make.05:19
doctormopleia2: Now you may post a blog entry to inflate my narcasistic ego :-D05:20
pleia2doctormo: so, shall my first task be to put *this* one into useable classroom-teaching format like you've done for the server classes?05:21
pleia2I'll certainly need to do it for myself to use it05:21
doctormopleia2: Yep05:21
doctormopleia2: That's why I started with notes on how to make a class/course section, and called you in. So you didn't have to wait on BiosElement05:22
* pleia2 nods05:22
pleia2I won't get much done this weekend since I somehow got the idea into my head that it would be fun to road trip down to New Orleans and fly home Sunday night05:22
pleia2(a friend is moving, he asked for company on the ride down, 20 hours!)05:22
doctormopleia2: OK, do you want me to also mentor you on this? (i.e. prod every so often)05:23
pleia2doctormo: if it's not too much trouble, I think that would help (I'm pretty good at managing my time, but I do have a lot going on)05:24
doctormohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics <- pleia2, you are now arber and executor of this page :-)05:24
* pleia2 applies hat05:24
doctormopleia2: Sure, it has helped me to commit my time to making the course sections, simply because I know I have to teach it. Each one takes about a week to make (about 5 to 10 hours total) and you can come to me for art.05:25
pleia2thanks doctormo :)05:26
doctormoGetting a deadline can help some people, would it help you? I can commit to teaching from your course on my tuesday class in 3 weeks time if that helps?05:26
* pleia2 peers at calendar05:26
pleia2sept 1st?05:27
doctormopleia2: sounds good05:46
doctormopleia2: sorry for the delay, been editing wiki05:46
pleia2doctormo: ok, shooting for sept 1st :)05:46
pleia2hmm, you have to actually use it on sept 1st05:48
pleia2so deadline would be sooner, maybe that's not enough time (erg, darn busy weekends this and next!)05:49
doctormoBiosElement: Are you back yet?05:58
BiosElementFor just a few yeah.05:58
doctormopleia2: It's a challange, I will expect to use it, but I have a fall back (i.e. my brain) you can try and do as much as you can and we'll settle it into peer review mode. But any more weeks and it'll get into long tail of time.05:59
doctormopleia2: Most people can make time here and there with the challenge, that's the point of the deadline.06:00
doctormoBiosElement: I just HEAVILY edited the teaching topics page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics, if you agree to go forth, then you can select the "Creating a Class" section and create it as already agreed.06:01
doctormoBiosElement: Do edit the page with updated thoughts etc, and if the course is good and your time is allowing you to be activly proceeding, as mentor I'll submit to the board to elect you for the post of manning that course.06:02
pleia2doctormo: alright, is Aug 30th delivery date soon enough to use on Sept 1st?06:02
doctormoSound reasonable? (if you want the job that is, after you've got the first course)06:03
doctormopleia2: 31st is grand, post it to your blog, or email the mailing list.06:03
BiosElementhaha, Yeah. Sounds fine by me.06:03
pleia2doctormo: ok :) added deadline to my calendar!06:03
doctormopleia2: Awesome, I feel like a community manager already, jono would be pleased :-P06:04
doctormopleia2: We'll do the same thing with you, if the course is good, as mentor, I'll submit you to the board lol.06:05
pleia2doctormo: alrighty! ;)06:05
* doctormo thinks that he should mention that pleia2 is on the board :-D06:05
* BiosElement thinks he already noticed that somewhere :P06:05
pleia2I suppose I'll abstain from voting for myself06:05
pleia2but, you know, squeezing my ego in here with doctormo's is challenging06:06
doctormopleia2: It's possible, although since I just apointed myself mentor, it's not too problematic. hopefully no toes will be damaged by me striking out with this.06:06
doctormopleia2: We'll have room for egos when everyone's gone through the basic classes. You know boredandblogging is very interested in me creating a "how to lead a loco" class?06:07
pleia2doctormo: is he really, or are you voluntelling him?06:08
pleia2he's been doing some great loco promotion research lately06:08
doctormopleia2: Perhaps that's because I suggested that he do it? :-P06:09
pleia2man, it'll suck when you get a job06:09
doctormoNo, I suggested that a good idea to get more locos active is to get a structured lesson in place.06:09
* pleia2 puts a dollar in the "support doctormo fund"06:09
pleia2ah, gotcha06:10
doctormopleia2: I'm looking into grants, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to get community funding, if there was enough support for it. I do a lot of work (or at least it's taking up a lot of time) and this week I had to take a manual labour job with a guy that will only hire MIT students, the money is more proof to my wife that I'm not a lay-about, while she and my savings pays for everything.06:11
doctormoI get the odd pay from fixing the odd computer, but my record this year for 6 months looks like my old per day wage. :-(06:12
* pleia2 nods06:12
doctormoSo it's important for sure, in fact I wanted to bring that up... (goes over to correct channel)06:12
zirodayHi all, I've been lurking for a bit but haven't really been following. At what stage is the project at currently, and what can I do with my (limited) skills to help?14:10
zirodaynevermind, caught up on the planet :)14:25
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