[04:49] http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22268/screenshot_004_6qwQoW.png [04:50] I think I have the steppers working good with OOo :) [04:50] kwwii, Look ok? [11:37] mat_t: how is adding a new boot [iteration3 ] a trivial edit? no sneaking past me or thorwil ;p [11:47] haha [11:47] sorry - this is a habit [11:48] * mat_t has done too much wiki editing in the last months [11:50] lol [11:55] mat_t: so you remain "Currenly" logged in [12:06] thorwil: nice catch ... lmao! [12:07] thorwil: nice :) [12:08] thorwil: about 50 people looked at it (including sabdfl) *many many times*... Quite astonishing :) [12:08] that mistake has been in all the 3 version! and no one noticed! [12:09] mat_t: i first noticed when i created my edit. but wanted to give you the chance to notice yourself :) [12:09] mat_t: it would be more than 50 , counting all the people who have been watching since iteration 1 ! [12:15] thanks thorwil! [12:18] mat_t: actually you should be angry with thorwil for not mentioning earlier ;p [12:20] * thorwil removes a nice word towards mac_v from the future [12:20] oh... :( [12:32] mat_t: i tried with different versions of the flash , but it is not possible to do shades and still maintain the same shade for flash for all the % . IMO changing the shades for different % wouldnt look nice [13:37] mac_v: not sure what you're referring to [13:48] mat_t: you said to try gradients for the flash ,[battery notify-osd icons] ^ [13:55] mat_t: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/gradient.svg , http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/notification-battery-060-plugged.svg [13:55] mac_v: ah, yes ? I was out of context there :) [13:56] mat_t: you can compare the two above^ which is better ? , the gradient is the new one , and the second is the one i sent earlier [13:57] do note above the 60% , black from the background will make the flash display properly [14:00] * mat_t looks [14:00] rendered png > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/PNG.png [14:02] first version > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/white.png [14:03] mac_v: thanks [14:03] mat_t: which one is better? [14:04] mac_v: gradient is better, I'd also try making the bolt slightly larger [14:04] mac_v: and we're good to go :) [14:04] mat_t: hmm... ok , when do you want the new version? [14:05] mac_v: kwwii's on holidays until next Friday, I guess he'll be implementing it [14:06] mat_t: actually after rendering i agree that the gradient is better :) [14:06] mac_v: :) [14:06] mac_v: good work [14:06] thanx :) [14:27] hello hello [14:30] welcome mrdoob [14:31] last time I was here was to complain about 8.04 default wallpaper [14:31] hehe [14:31] it was too late tho [14:32] mrdoob: complaining rarely works like that. not just here [14:32] so the reason why Canonical mockups have a spotlight is because it needs to give a sense of space/depth? [14:33] mrdoob: so far we don't know which came first: spotlight or the quest for depth ;) but maybe mat_t is so kind to tell you [14:36] thorwil: yeah actually didn't specifically complained, I mainly asked if it the background was official and if it was going to be used on the final [14:36] thorwil: ok, will wait to hear from mat_t then [14:38] mat_t: me have mrdoob here :) [14:40] hi mrdoob :) [14:41] hello :) [14:42] mrdoob: first of all, great work on the designs! [14:44] it's the least I could do [14:44] I did it because I've been using ubuntu for a long time already and wanted to give something in exchange [14:45] the problem is that I put too much love on it I guess :P [14:45] mrdoob: we all make that mistake! ;) [14:48] So the quick story of this concept would be rougly that ? Otto (chaotic) came up with the concept that would enable us to add some depth to the design - mostly because we can't do very much with the gdm itself (it's very flat) [14:49] I see [14:50] there was basically 2 options when trying to suggest depth [14:50] also, the metaphor of starting up as "lighting" Ubuntu was nice [14:50] light and shadow [14:50] light = dark environment [14:50] shadow = bright environment [14:50] the dark environment has been picked [14:51] which in my opinion has a problem [14:51] ubuntu/linux is "underground" enough [14:51] that doesn't really benefit from a dark environment [14:51] apple/microsoft has always focused to brightness [14:52] even apple is even going to the galaxy, not that the galaxy is bright, but it's the feeling it produces [14:52] in short [14:52] right now [14:52] ubuntu = lit room [14:52] windows = sky [14:52] macos = galaxy [14:53] I think that's fine - Ubuntu should feel close and familiar, but still full of opportunities [14:54] the choice of default wallpaper will be very important - it should accentuate the opportunities and freedom [14:58] ok [14:58] let me upload something to illustrate my point [14:59] mrdoob: it's quite interesting you thought of a room [14:59] it's the feeling it gives [14:59] mrdoob: I'd rather say it's more of a stage that's being set [15:00] mat_t: default wallpaper , something abstract resembling an oasis at the end of a desert :) [15:00] mac_v: desert doesn't sound very potent ;) [15:01] mat_t: yeah , i couldnt think of anything else brown ;p [15:01] ok [15:01] thats y i added the oasis [15:01] I guess I'm not supposed to show this... but well, faster than hacking up a new one [15:01] http://mrdoob.com/files/temp/ubuntu_lit.png [15:02] don't worry about the blue [15:02] that's pretty similar to the current mockup [15:02] but the environment is lit [15:02] it gives much nicer feeling in my opinion [15:02] more open, and more sexy [15:03] yes it is nice - would be interesting to see how you'd resolve the throbber and gdm window [15:04] throbber is easy, there is still color spectrum for a lighter element [15:05] to be honest, it's much more easier to work on a lit environment than the dark environment you're trying to work with [15:05] gdm won't be much of a problem either [15:08] mrdoob: I think it would be quite tricky to make it feel "ubuntu" without going into good old brown/tan or some kind of dull gray [15:09] (15:02:00) mrdoob: don't worry about the blue [15:09] but it would be great to see the light variant with all the elements [15:09] just tint it to brow [15:09] mrdoob: exactly, that's what worries me :) [15:10] there was a gdm, or even a boot some releases ago that was white/brown if I remember correctly [15:10] I meant that, from that design, don't worry about the blue tone, is not the point of the design [15:10] but the feeling it gives [15:11] mrdoob: right, but without a complete design there's not much we can say - I'd say it looks nice, but it doesn't really feel "ubuntu" [15:12] another problem from wiki > " The reason Canonical's mockup (and all of the previous usplash themes) use a black background is because on some video/monitor combinations the usplash image does not fill the entire screen and whatever is not filled shows as black. Microsoft does the same thing in Windows XP and newer (and I had a computer that had this problem with Windows 98, looked really unprofessional). The reason Apple can get away with doin [15:12] g this with OS X is because they control the hardware. Short version: use a black background on your usplash" [15:12] mac_v: right, usplash unfortunately has to stay black [15:12] not sure how xsplash handles the light elements [15:13] mac_v: but that's not a primary reason any more [15:13] xsplash can handle any resolution, so we can use any color we want [15:13] that was amaranth , i just quoted him [15:14] mat_t: ok, I'll try to do a mockup ... [15:14] wow , thats nice to hear :) so , why not use the light environment? [15:14] mat_t: ^ [15:14] mrdoob: cool! [15:15] mac_v: If you can make it looks super-slick, make it feel "ubuntu" and not brown/tan - be my guest :) [15:16] mat_t: how does xsplash work? [15:16] hehe , we have mrdoob for that , he'll save Karmic :) [15:16] I mean, how will treat the design in a 800x600 and in 1920x1200 [15:16] mrdoob: it's just a fullscreen window, with the background, logo and throbber [15:16] yeah, but does it crop/resize? [15:16] mrdoob: we're working out the scaling issues, it will either scale or pick the most appropriate asset [15:17] vector/bitmap? [15:17] bitmap [15:17] ok [15:17] alright [15:17] the code is very similar to wallpaper scaling/cropping [15:18] ok, I'll get down to this as soon as I get home then [15:18] mrdoob: try to keep the soft blue. maybe explore very warm green. to then bring in brown tones with the throbber and dialogs [15:19] mrdoob: try the new shade of iteration3 , black-currant , [15:19] :) [15:20] i mean a very light one though [15:20] http://cdn.cbsi.com.au/story_media/339283110/photos-ubuntu-710_1.jpg [15:20] people didn't like that one? [15:20] colour-wise [15:21] mrdoob: If you can make it looks super-slick, make it feel "ubuntu" and not brown/tan - be my guest :) [15:21] mac_v: thanks :) [15:21] so i guess no brown , :) [15:21] that's what I'am asking [15:21] what's wrong with brown/tan [15:21] brand change? [15:22] mrdoob: there's nothing inherently wrong with brown [15:24] nothing like the feelilng of sand... [15:24] :) [15:25] mrdoob: people have been asking for a change from brown to something else , i guess its being transitioned slowly [15:26] ok ok [15:29] mrdoob -> looking forward to seeing what you'll come up with ;-) [15:29] thorwil: good point about ellipsis [15:30] wow , mat_t only now reading the backlog ? ;p [15:31] Hello all _o/ [15:31] * mat_t has *many* emails to read :) [15:34] mac_v -> What's in the backlog? I've not been online that long [15:35] MadsRH: thorwil's mail > Login options should not have "...". Menus elsewhere come without. [15:35] not irc log :) [15:36] i was just kidding , he had sent it only 2 hrs ago [15:40] oh yes, that's another thing, from dael99 comment: "I truly think it should have the release number on the boot" [15:40] anything wrong by having the release number on the logo? [15:42] mrdoob -> +1 that would make sense [15:43] it something that I really miss, everytime I boot ubuntu would be nice to know which ubuntu I'm booting [15:43] -1 ;p it would throw off the balance[words and number would look odd ] , would be unnecessary to look at the number daily [15:44] it doesn't need to be big and bold [15:44] just subtle [15:45] even so , for a logo or advert it might be nice , but as a boot it would look Odd , Just my opinion , but mat_t might have some branding reasons [15:46] mac_v -> I don't agree. Windows had that http://z.about.com/d/pcsupport/1/5/P/0/-/-/xpnew18.jpg [15:46] MadsRH: i used to hate that , PLS dont make me look at such nasty things without warning ;p [15:47] mac_v -> :-X [15:47] I don't think windows xp is a nasty boot :S [15:47] mrdoob: ..what? [15:47] we already know its an XP/vista/ its already labelled but , BTW win7 has dropped it [15:48] there are two bugs in the dust sand theme [15:48] I'd like help fixing them myself [15:49] mac_v -> right, that Win7 boot is work out great for them. The comment I get the most on my mockups is "it looks great, but looks like Win7" :-/ [15:50] first is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-gdm-themes/+bug/350693 [15:50] Ubuntu bug 350693 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "Dust Sand Theme display error" [Undecided,Confirmed] [15:50] mac_v: but windows releases a new version every 2/3 years, and changes the design in each [15:50] ubuntu can't afford changing the design in every release [15:50] MadsRH: yeah , the orbs , what can we do , we'd be just called copycats :( [15:50] mrdoob: we should adopt gnome-globalmenu [15:50] here's a screenshot. [15:51] uploading... [15:51] http://i27.tinypic.com/ostjqo.png [15:51] oh [15:51] macos [15:52] no. [15:52] better. [15:52] ubuntu. [15:52] the desktop for human beings [15:52] :) [15:52] see the window list at the bottom? [15:52] mrdoob: if you look at the screenshot , it has unnecessary branding 3 times "Microsoft" [15:52] i mean the windows boot^ [15:52] mac_v: yeah I know, but still, isn't really "nasty" [15:53] haha, mine has it 17 times [15:53] ;) [15:53] windows95 was more nasty [15:53] http://www.stimart.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/windows95.jpg [15:53] and you can't see all the dithering there [15:53] lovely shadow on the logo [15:54] shadow... on top of... the sky [15:54] heh [15:54] anybody experienced with editing gtk themes here? [15:54] I want to fix two issues with dust sand [15:55] ethana2: that would be dashua [15:55] * ethana2 lies in wait for him [15:56] ethana2: BTW , whats the issue with dust sand? [15:56] ethana2: http://mrdoob.com/files/temp/ubuntu_desktop.png [15:56] that's how my desktop looks [15:57] notice how I have the top bar without the "Application Places System" thing [15:58] I don't mind if Ubuntu uses gnome-globalmenu as long as I can re-configure it to look like that ;) [15:58] mrdoob: seems like you use thunderbird , when you are using email clients you shouldnt have a problem with top post [15:58] mac_v: :) [15:58] AFAIK only yahoo irritates the mailing list ;p [15:58] I want to avoid mailing lists :P [15:58] mrdoob: that's how I used to do it [15:58] too old for that :P [15:59] and the global menu is, naturally, just another panel applet [15:59] so you can do what you please [15:59] in fact, it has its own settings too, it's configurable [16:01] then it's cool [16:01] although the screenshot you sent it's messy, it should need a separator bar [16:05] eh? [16:05] ethana2 -> or perhaps a separator bar and use another font (remove the bold). It really looks messy! [16:05] separator bars are noise. [16:06] death to them. [16:06] I'm just using dust sand default [16:06] * ethana2 goes into font settings, nixes the bold [16:06] rggh [16:06] the problem is that it uses window title bar font settings for the menus [16:07] I like separator bars :) [16:07] they are worthless [16:07] one should use whitespace [16:07] actually, the widget or whatever would be fine, if it was just completely invisible [16:07] nothing in the panels should be anything but monochrome [16:08] also, applets should cling to one end or the other [16:08] none of this manual arranging stuff [16:08] and the ubuntu logo [16:08] shouldn't be 6 parts, should be 4 [16:08] circle, three heads, that's all [16:08] one color [16:09] and the motto, I never mention 'linux' [16:09] I take great care to avoid doing so [16:09] no one gives a crap what kernel you use, they just want their stuff to work [16:09] frankly, linux has a bad usability concerning usability, and we're better off just ditching it [16:09] history/reputation** [16:10] we've still got a long ways to go to catch up to Apple [16:11] but they are both innovative and vicious, and doing so will require us to change nearly everything about what we're doing in some way or other [16:11] nothing can be sacred [16:11] I think little by little people is starting to see that linux is good [16:11] I don't think we should "hide" linux [16:11] linux is a kernel [16:12] for people [16:12] gnome is more important [16:12] gnu is more important [16:12] lines = something that kind of works and is free [16:12] apt is pretty important too [16:12] but no one cares [16:12] it's just another piece [16:12] gentoo is linux, android is linux [16:12] 'linux' tells you nothing [16:12] well, tell you what kind of software will you be able to run [16:12] 'kind of works'? [16:12] more or less [16:12] not good enough [16:13] 'very little' [16:13] you see, recently I bought my parents a new computer [16:13] *headdesk* [16:13] my father said that the previous one was "better" [16:13] both used windows xp [16:13] the difference is that the previous one had office installed, so was able to see those .ppt files his friends sent him [16:13] ah [16:14] that's what people consider when something "works" [16:14] compatbility [16:14] this is the place for discussing the new gdm.. right? [16:15] seems like [16:16] i'll take it as a yes.. i think everyone has heard my idea already, i know mr doob has.. about the wallpaper when selecting a user.. [16:16] is it even possible to accomplish? [16:17] natewiebe13: ? [16:18] s/possible/practical [16:18] possible [16:18] as in.. with the code [16:18] able to even happen [16:19] what i would like to see as a final product is mr.doob's iteration 3, with (i think it was mac_v) the modified gdm, and the wallpaper fade [16:19] ethana2: its under iteration 2 /Boot/Demo [16:20] ....? [16:21] ethana2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255199/ [16:21] from the wiki page [16:21] mac_v: was it you who modified the proposed gdm? (seperated the users) [16:22] natewiebe13: yeah , but that is not feasible as of now , the gdm is not customizable [16:22] sounds good though [16:22] ethana2: my idea? [16:22] yes [16:23] my reasons why it would be good are in there, i think [16:23] ethana2: do you think its even possible to do? [16:24] maybe not with the current code [16:24] I think we should have the needed code written though [16:25] I think it should load the default user's wallpaper, if set public [16:25] the instant the kernel gets control from grub [16:25] display that blended 50/50 with white and a pulser in the middle [16:25] natewiebe13: the wallpaper changing? when user is selected? [16:25] then replace the throbber(**) with gdm [16:25] here's what i was thinking about this... [16:25] then if another user is selected, change the background accordingly [16:26] then fade out gdm and the white and slide in the panels [16:26] so you can have the same picture [16:26] from the instant you get control from grub [16:26] to your desktop [16:27] what it uses for xsplash as a background is also whats used in gdm (just like the proposed solution), when you select a user, it then fades into their background (if they allow the background to be public). if it cancels, then fades back into the default. and repeats if another user is selected [16:28] im not thinking it would be that difficult to accomplish.. [16:29] but if someone can make this work.. it would be great [16:29] is there anyone on here that is on the official artwork team? [16:31] if not.. anyone know the best way to suggest this to one of the team's members so it has a chance to be a possibility? [16:33] natewiebe13: the design team is here , but to get it *more* visbility , send a mail to the mailing list [16:33] mac_v: alright.. thanks [16:34] mac_v: what do you think about that idea? [16:35] natewiebe13: ideas are nice but they have to be implementable , ;) [16:35] if it is possible.. what do you think of the idea? [16:35] should be cool [16:42] mac_v: im hoping that it will freshen up the login experience a bit, make it new and different. [16:43] natewiebe13: here it's a suggestion [16:43] natewiebe13: yeah, it would be nice :) [16:43] create a video that illustrates your idea [16:44] you'll save the time of trying to make people visualize your idea ;) [16:44] mrdoob: color for the boot , how does lavender sound? [16:44] too aggresive [16:44] I think [16:45] too colorful maybe [16:45] dark ones are nice tho [16:45] http://www.whitewitch.ie/natural_perfumers_journal/uploaded_images/lavender-799013.jpg [16:46] http://images.google.co.uk/images?sourceid=chrome&q=lavender&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi [16:46] but it's quite a punch in the eye [16:46] maybe something like this [16:46] http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/135966690_d6dcf47e5a.jpg?v=0 [16:46] mrdoob: i still like the monochrome gradient from iteration 1 (i think its iteration 1) [16:46] mrdoob: i was thinking of a very mild shade , Languid lavender / Lavender gray / Light mauve > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_%28color%29 [16:46] mrdoob: also, what should i use to make the video, ive never done one before :P [16:47] yeah iteration 1 [16:47] natewiebe13: I learned Adobe After Effects for doing my animated mockups, seemed a good solution [16:48] okay [16:48] thanks [16:49] mac_v: yeah that's interesting [16:49] so I guess we're moving a bit to the blue then [16:49] mrdoob: is it possible to get your boot from iteration 3 [16:49] ? [16:49] in between red/blue I mean [16:49] without ripping from youtube [16:50] mrdoob: its a bright warn color but retaining the pinkishness would seperate it from blue [16:50] natewiebe13: send me an email (info@mrdoob.com) and I'll upload the source files for you [16:51] mac_v: yep [16:52] natewiebe13: (otherwise I may forgot when I get home :D) [16:52] alright.. emailed [16:53] what format are they in? [16:53] after effects [16:53] cs something [16:55] is it possible just to get the boot in avi or mpg? [16:55] ok [16:55] thatd be awesome [16:56] I think I had it on h264 mp4 [16:56] okay.. that works too [16:57] actually, maybe I can download it from youtube [16:57] i'll just try that [16:58] thanks [17:00] oh, lame [17:00] haha.. it was 209 kb [17:00] yeah [17:00] even the one I can download from the user panel is 209kb [17:00] doh [17:00] what a feature [17:00] I'll upload the big one later then [17:01] gotta love file2hd [17:08] mac_v, I updated MurrinaDust too with the new scrollbars. I emailed Kido the change to try and get it committed. [17:09] To Dust trunk [17:13] mat_t: if we're moving out of brown, will the official logo (which isn't vertically aligned properly btw) will also move out of oranges/reds? [17:13] dashua: nice... :) [17:13] mrdoob: nooooo.... that is brand logo , thats forbidden ;p [17:14] right... [17:14] apple was also coloured at the beginning :P [17:15] mrdoob: nothing changes regarding branding atm [17:15] mrdoob: only canonical decides that internally, and nothing is going to change atleast for a few yrs [17:15] sure [17:15] but can be used as plan white/black then [17:15] ? [17:16] mrdoob: sure it can [17:16] cool [17:16] by the moment it gets used like this, you won't see much the colores version ;) [17:16] *coloured [17:36] just use a monochrome 'version' of the logo [17:40] ..until people forget there's a colored version [17:40] the transition to a unified circle instead of the divided circle, that'd take some more creativity [17:41] mac_v, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22319/screenshot_008_1fytaH.png [17:41] Better bottom_edge ? [17:42] dashua: so much better :) [17:42] Nice :) [17:42] Thx [17:43] ethana2: yeah, I've also thought about that, unify circle makes sense [17:44] but the heads become a problem [17:44] if you unify them [17:44] it would look like mickey mouse or just a tit with three nipples [17:45] I will release a 0.3 version and try for a community theme addition [17:45] (depending how how much you insert the heads) [17:45] It's pretty solid so far [17:46] * mac_v should one day complete his theme too! [17:47] dashua: i dont like 1 thing though , ;p you removed the app icons from the title bars [17:48] Yeah, that was a papercut I was testing over from Human [17:48]