=== asac_ is now known as asac [00:29] going to bed. bye [00:29] ok [00:34] after this im going to quit IRC on Empathy having this channel as my favorite.. when i come back I want to know if i quit or not [00:34] back... any change? [00:36] from what? [00:36] :-) [00:37] join/part were hidden here. If you want to try again, I have them visible now [00:38] It said you left, not quit. [00:42] ok, thanks :-) [00:42] another feature I think people will want in Empathy [01:10] hello, my upgrade from jaunty to karmic broke my webcam(driver), how do I report this bug? [06:55] good morning [09:47] Hi. Bug 412873 is a duplicate of bug 407848. I have access to the first, but not the latter, so I can't update the status of the bug. [09:47] slicer: Bug 412873 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/412873 is private [09:47] slicer: Bug 407848 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/407848 is private [09:49] .. and the log for the one I can see has a log entry that says 'visibility: private -> public', why is ubot4 saying it's private? === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [15:16] Hi, I'm trying to collect some info on the intel freezes, but I need some help as the instructions I found are for ubuntu and not kubuntu: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-freeze-test [15:17] in step 7 it says to copy sudo cp /var/log/gdm/\:0.log dri_debug/gdm.log, but I have no folder gdm or kdm and the kdm.log in /var/log is over 1Gb.. should I just leave that step out or do you need some specific information from kdm.log? [15:18] kaddi: maybe you could rename your kdm.log, do the steps and attach the new kdm.log? [15:20] StoB I will do that.. but I mostly get random freezes, I can not provoke freezes on the 2.6.28-14 kernel, so the kdm.log might still get very big [15:20] which I was planning on reporting [15:20] kaddi: It says "REQUIRES: 2.6.30-rc2 kernel or later." on this page [15:23] lol, true. Ok, I'll stick to the newer kernel then. Any advice on what would be useful for freezes on the standard jaunty kernel. Anything that would not get collected by ubuntu-bug and should be added in? [15:23] kaddi: I don't know. [15:25] ok, I'll see what I can do :) [15:27] In a bug report, what does "[SRU]" stand for? [15:27] Stable Release Update [15:27] !sru [15:27] Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates [15:30] Pici: Thanks. [15:32] Bug #253465 "[SRU] daemontools-run needs to work with upstart" prevents successful installation of daemontools-run. The problem is known at leasts since June 30th, 2008. What can be done to get it fixed faster? [15:32] Launchpad bug 253465 in daemontools "[SRU] daemontools-run needs to work with upstart" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253465 [15:38] Boo [15:39] hmm, I'm new to this whole bug reporting thing. I reported a bug against the xserver-xorg-video-intel package yesterday (at least that's what I was trying to do) and I can't find it in the list of bugs affecting it. Do bugs need to be triaged before they are assigned to a package, or did I do something wrong? [15:41] log in to launchpad and click on your name then bugs [15:42] yes [15:42] bddebian, are you ok? 9 minutes from join to the daily 'Boo' is a loong time ;) [15:42] virtuald the bug is there, it is just not listed in the bugs affecting xserver-xorg-video-intel, which made me wonder if I missed a step somewhere [15:44] thekorn: No, I'm never OK :) [15:45] haha, ok, this explains a lot [15:45] kaddi: you didn't give me/us your link [15:45] ah sorry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/415132 [15:46] Launchpad bug 415132 in ubuntu "GM965/GL960 intel freeze with kde desktop effects" [Undecided,New] [16:08] I'm new to the bug reporting process. I have marked several bug reports as duplicates to #253465. Should I add add a message like in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/daemontools/+bug/308028/comments/2 to those bug reports? [16:08] Launchpad bug 308028 in daemontools "package daemontools-run 1:0.76-3 failed to install/upgrade: (dup-of: 253465)" [Undecided,Confirmed] [16:08] Launchpad bug 253465 in daemontools "[SRU] daemontools-run needs to work with upstart" [Medium,Confirmed] [16:16] StoB, yes, you should always add a comment like in 308028. You can review a series of standard replies at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses [16:17] StoB, in fact, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/KnowledgeBase is a good reference to keep [16:22] hggdh: Thank you. [16:23] StoB, you are welcome. Thank you for helping. [16:25] hggdh: I might be a little late to the meeting [16:25] micahg, no prob. I will talk -- if needed -- on your entries [16:26] thanks :) [16:40] hi everyone.. 20 mins for Bugsquad meeting (it would be held at this channel) === grep_ is now known as grepory [17:00] BONG BONG BONG [17:00] heh [17:00] * grepory dances [17:00] (this is the bell) [17:01] hi folks [17:03] * andresmujica1 waves [17:03] :) [17:03] ok, let's check what do we got [17:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting [17:04] hi bugsquad! [17:06] there are some topics proposed and some items in the agenda... [17:06] * andresmujica1 waves thekorn [17:07] Triaging versus Bug Fixing/Closing in Karmic (anyone knows more about this topic? i don't recall whom proposed it) [17:07] Nor do I [17:07] well.. that's something we talked about UDS with the desktop team [17:08] they're going to spend more time doing bug fixing rather than triaging for the current cycle [17:08] but i don't know who added that to the bugsquad meeting agenda, probably got confused by the title [17:09] so, if I understand it right, the desktop team will need more help on triaging [17:09] as always, yes ;-) [17:10] something that concerns me is that the biggest triaging effort is mostly done by the devs themselves... how can we help them more? [17:10] I think trying to recreate bugs, documenting test cases, and forwarding upstream are all a big help. [17:13] ok... so ? [17:13] :) [17:13] I think we should move to the next item since there doesn't seem to be much to discuss here [17:14] ok. in the proposed topics we've got [17:14] Tasks to do for the team [17:15] from previous meetings we've discussed some ideas, [17:15] the bug triaging classroom session for the Global Ubuntu Jam, we're looking for someone that can give the session. [17:16] and the wiki page with the most important bugs per cycle [17:16] At one point in time we had a todo list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/TODO [17:16] Perhaps we should revive that? [17:17] sounds like a good idea [17:17] yeap, definitely. [17:17] yeap, would be good for keeping track of the tasks [17:18] to know who is doing what [17:18] However, people have to actively monitor the wiki page [17:18] which, I guess, comes smack on -control duties [17:18] Maybe sending monthly reminders of what's on it would be good? [17:18] we can subscribe to the page [17:19] also, but the reminders help [17:19] * hggdh had already forgotten about this page [17:19] perhaps with the bugsquad meeting report? ;-) [17:20] ok, i'm offering to update the TODO list with the tasks that have been talked within this meetings, and yes, it can be sen with the report too [17:20] sent [17:20] person: No such object "https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~pvillavi". <- grgr love you lp [17:21] ok. [17:21] now: New bug-stuff to look forward to -- bcurtiswx [17:21] not here... [17:21] i was wondering about package-hooks , where can i find a list of the ones that are being worked on ?? [17:22] andresmujica1: what do you mean by being worked on? [17:22] there's a TAG or someting at LP ? [17:22] The only one I know of being worked on is evolution atm [17:22] i mean, i want to make an apport-hook but if someone already is working on it it would be better to find a different one.. [17:23] I don't think that many people are working on them, so I'd just have at it [17:23] ok. the standard procedure is to make the bug report and ping piti, right? [17:24] ping me actually [17:24] ok [17:25] I'll chase getting them incorporated / uploaded [17:26] that reminds me that i need to open some bug reports about the ones i wrote during the sprint [17:26] pedro_: yes, that'd be great! [17:27] Policy of what to do when bugsquad members need help but don't ask -- micahg === erhesrhsrtb54vyh is now known as Elbrus [17:28] and -- more importantly -- do not follow the rules [17:29] send them an email explaining why what they did is wrong? include a link to our documentation and offering help if they have a question? [17:29] One issue here might be that the Bug Squad is an open team so there is no commitment to follow the rules [17:29] They aren't using stock responses (and the replies aren't even close) [17:29] Changing status with no reply [17:29] Reply without specifying next step (i.e. what the reporter needs to do) [17:29] i tend to do that most of the times [17:30] heh [17:30] " Changing status with no reply" < - i hate this [17:30] I try to do what pedro recommends [17:30] everytime you do that, a kitten die [17:31] OMG, we are running out of kittens! [17:31] That's what I added the contact user hyperlink into lp_karma_suffix [17:31] The idea being you'd see something inappropriate and contact them directly [17:31] However, I think it is important to verify that the person is in fact a member of bug squad [17:32] so. I suggest -control starts contacting -- in a nice way -- the -squad member that are doing that, as we find them [17:32] s/member/&s/ [17:32] what happened with the discussion about making bug squad a closed team, with some minimal requirements to join? [17:33] That needs to be discussed on the mailing list, particularly what to do with existing members [17:33] Do we just wipe out the team and start over or ...? [17:34] best would be to keep on with the existing members, and add an expiry [17:34] and request an acceptance of the (new) rules [17:34] if you don't touch a bug for 3 months set a 30 days expiration .. [17:34] andresmujica1, that'd be tricky to do [17:35] Adding an expiration for all members would be easy though [17:35] of course, this will also add on overhead for the bug-meisters [17:35] since only them (looking at Brian, directly) can do it [17:35] hggdh: for managing the team? I've written some launchpadlib scripts for managing teams so its not so bad [17:36] Way better than it used to be! [17:36] * hggdh retracts the observation ;-) [17:36] There are 2046 direct members of the "Ubuntu BugSquad" team <- wow [17:36] how many bugsquad members are actively triaging ? is it possible to now? [17:37] andresmujica1: yes, but its somewhat hard [17:37] So. We intend to make -squad closed; -sqaud member should follow the rules, including subscribing to the ML [17:38] i would agree with that. Even with a general expiration after some ML messages explaining why... [17:38] and what it means to be a member of the bugsquad [17:39] +1 [17:39] I'm agreed with that [17:40] any other vote? Otherwise we are agreed, and move on [17:41] ok [17:41] so [17:41] Mentoring BugSquad members -- related to bug 414627 (malone) -- micahg [17:41] Launchpad bug 414627 in malone "allow users to select another user to follow/watch" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414627 [17:41] so, I was thinking to make mentoring a more official feature of bug control [17:41] this is something MIcah and I discussed: would help a lot on following new -squads, or proposed -controls [17:41] I'd *love* to have that on launchpad, it helps quite a lot on Gnome Bugzilla [17:42] yeah, that feature would be nice [17:42] and would be perfect for the mentoring program we're trying to build [17:42] pedro_, exactly the same point I raised with Micah [17:42] but I realized that it's possible to a point right now [17:42] if you're subscribed to the package in questions, you can filter by commentor [17:42] It's not big brother-ish? [17:42] bdmurray: maybe it should be limited to admins [17:42] bdmurray, it may deteriorate to BB, without control [17:42] and no, there's nothing private about non-private bugs are there? [17:43] It implies that I don't trust you and need to watch your every move [17:43] it does. This is the point [17:43] bdmurray: well, not trust is different than training I woudl think [17:44] why is this different than a seasonsed person standing over another while training? [17:44] hmm, i'd see it the other way around.. i want to follow the example from someone else...so i watch how he's doing it [17:44] and the person should know that you're watching I would think [17:44] we need to verify. Andre did that with me, for example, when I started in Gnome. I see no problems, since all bugs are viewwable by anyone [17:44] andresmujica1: I think both ar egoof [17:44] *good [17:45] it is similar to anyone proposing to MOTU, for example (but without the help of 'following' [17:46] anyway, you can kind of do it now if you subscribe to all bug mail and filter by commenter [17:46] and accept thousands of email per day, of course [17:46] but this would make it so that you can do it more easily [17:47] question is: what incentives are there to become a bugsquad? [17:48] (since I can comment on any bug, anyway) [17:48] only to say that they're dedicating themselves to helping [17:48] hugs? [17:48] but I see where you're going hggdh [17:49] perhaps as a pre-req to become a -control? [17:49] bugsquad should get more help from -control [17:49] that's how I learned [17:50] yes, and this is the mentoring we are trying to start [17:50] and it encouraged me to keep going [17:51] ok, we've got a few minutes, so let's wrap up ... [17:51] maybe we should resurrect the wiki page for mentoring [17:51] and start the official mentoring soon [17:51] * hggdh pokes pedro_ ;-) [17:52] hggdh, just waiting for the response from charlie-tca, if he doesn't answer at the end of this week we might look for someone else to fit there [17:52] we cannot wait forever [17:53] micahg, there's a plan for starting a more structured mentoring program: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/SpecialisationWithinBugcontrol [17:53] * micahg is looking [17:54] would be really good if everybody could look at the spec and add comments about it [17:54] on the comment page [17:54] ? [17:54] I don't see a comment page [17:54] micahg, feel free to add those at the bottom [17:54] just add a Comment header, and we will go from there [17:55] +1 on the idea [17:55] * micahg is already specialized :) [17:56] ok, let's go to Open Discussion and let the adopting package topic for the next meeting [17:56] would comments per category be better? [17:56] wrt to adopting packges I have a question [17:57] Would it be interesting to know what packages nobody is subscribed to? [17:57] a big yes ;-) [17:57] bdmurray: my guess would be most [17:57] unless people are subscribed to -bugs [17:58] or maybe not... [17:58] hmm.. sure. even get in touch with main developer and help him subscribe to its package... [17:58] micahg, I think commenting at the bottom is better -- all comments together [17:58] ok [17:58] micahg: but if you knew netcat had nobody subscribed to its bug reports and it only has <5 open bugs might that help you choose a package to adopt? [17:59] yeah, that's a good point [17:59] maybe both stats together would be good [17:59] and that it is synced with debian so valid bugs should be forwarded upstream ... [17:59] I think it would -- I would not be afraid of being overwhelmed, and this plays a role [18:00] the question is how do we cover 20k pkgs with 125 people? [18:00] we do not. There is only so much we can do. But we *can* start [18:00] exactly [18:00] ok, makes sense [18:01] and it will be better than *not* doing anything [18:01] my plan has always been adopt a package, get the bugs under control, then adopt another [18:01] * micahg is still working on the first bunch :) [18:01] its a good plan :-) [18:02] well, you started with FFox, what did you expect LOL [18:02] when I started, there were only 1600 FF bugs, now there are 2k :( [18:03] one thing we might try is to have more than one for large (in terms of bugs) packages [18:03] if we can get it for these large packages, it is already a victory [18:03] well, that's where mentorhelp [18:03] yes [18:04] you get 2-3 people training on bugs in a large package [18:05] So. Comments are needed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/SpecialisationWithinBugcontrol [18:05] the sooner, methinks, the better [18:05] * micahg will comment tonight [18:05] andresmujica1, back to you ;-) [18:06] ok, about the upcoming Developer week, anything we can help on? [18:08] bdmurray, pedro_ ? [18:08] I'm all set thanks for asking [18:10] well, just help on welcoming the new people (if there's any) after the talk here at the channel [18:10] ROLF [18:11] ok, anything else we should discuss after closing ? [18:12] andresmujica1: you'll send out minutes correct? [18:12] yeap [18:12] starting right now. [18:12] and the next meeting will be on 8 September? [18:13] if everyone agrees, it would be Sept 8th [18:13] +1 [18:13] same hour same channel? [18:13] sure [18:13] that sounds good to me [18:14] ok, thanks everyone :) [18:14] thanks! [18:15] thanks! [18:15] thank you, andresmujica1 [18:15] thanks andresmujica1 [18:17] by the way does lists.ubuntu.com crash firefox for anyone else? [18:17] which version? [18:17] wfm in 3.5 [18:17] 3.5 it also crashed epiphany for me [18:19] did not crash here, on FF 3.5 [18:21] hrm, must be me [18:26] bdmurray: karmic? [18:26] micahg: of course! [18:27] ah, others have been reporting crashes as well [18:28] can you get a good backtrace and open a bug, there's about 20 crash reports I still have to look at [18:30] micahg: I'll see what I can do [18:32] micahg: it's not really that uncommon to see a crash of the Firefox :) [18:32] kklimonda: it's probably not firefox :) [18:33] most of the crashes are GTK related in karmic from what I've seen [18:36] damn, I hate crashes I can't reproduce when I have time and that hit me when I don't expect them.. [18:37] anyone else having problems with gpm? It just crashes (and brings down whole session with it) when I unplug a usb mouse.. [18:37] (gnome-power-manager) [18:37] g-p-m crashing won't bring down the whole session. that must be something else [18:38] chrisccoulson: I know it shouldn't :/ [18:38] chrisccoulson: apport has marked my two reports as duplicates of bug 394700 [18:38] Launchpad bug 394700 in gnome-power-manager "gnome-power-manager crashed on removing the battery" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394700 [18:40] chrisccoulson: is it even possible that removing usb mouse could make it crash? [18:42] micahg: I updated and its fine now [18:42] cool, there was a new version that fixed a lot of the GTK crashes [18:45] kklimonda - possibly, i'm not sure though. it's not really clear whats happening from that backtrace [18:47] heh, I'll try to reproduce it and get more info next sunday [18:48] bdmurray: could you pls update the lp responses ? [18:50] mac_v: could you elaborate a bit? [18:51] add some smileys :) [18:52] bdmurray: the lp repsonses > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses , i added 1 for the papercuts [18:52] that's what launchpad should support - emoticons! [18:52] +1 for that :) [18:52] mac_v: you'd like that added to the greasemonkey script / firefox extension? [18:53] bdmurray: yeah... sorry i didnt properly elaborate>faceplam< [18:55] mac_v: I'll try and it get to it. A patch would speed up the process though. [18:55] bdmurray: hmm... not very sure how to do that :( [18:55] the xml file is at http://people.canonical.com/~brian/greasemonkey/bugsquad-replies.xml [18:56] mac_v: all the common ones were in there. I added a few custom ones of my own that are Firefox specific [18:56] oh... ok [18:56] I think [19:06] bdmurray: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/bugsquad-replies.xml , added to the end... line 254 onwards , also added another one about sending the report upstream. could you check it? [19:06] micahg: how do i reorder the replies? [19:11] mac_v: the one about sending report upstream isn't generic - sholdn't link be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream ? [19:13] kklimonda: oh... yeah... i was thinking only about gnome! [19:13] editing [19:14] new version http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/bugsquad-replies.xml [19:16] kklimonda: once reloaded . where do these get saved in the system? i'm not able to find the file. [19:17] mac_v: I think it lands in firefox preferences [19:17] prefs.js [19:17] kklimonda: /usr/share/firefox-lp-improvements has the scripts but , but the responses! i'm stumped [19:17] oh [19:18] mac_v: check about:config [19:20] hmm... i just have to reorder the numbers , nice :) [19:22] I'm not sure what will happen after they get updated again though [19:23] bdmurray: i have not rearranged them waiting for you :) [19:24] do they auto update or only manual reload? [19:25] they check for updates every 48 hours I think or you can manually force a reload [19:33] ok [19:37] mac_v: I've made some changes to what you had. You can see what I have at http://pastebin.osuosl.org/28226 [19:39] bdmurray: pls dont change the papercut response , that response was how the design team wanted it [19:40] i added the response to the wiki only after suggestions from mpt. === jdstrand_ is now known as jdstrand [20:07] mac_v: well, I thought the grammar could be a bit more verbose and punctuated differently. [20:10] "pls" -> "please" is a good thing, right? :) [20:11] Yes, its not a txt message [20:14] bdmurray: oh , the "please" and the "information" can be full , thats not the problem , they didnt want to use "Unfortunately" and the line order [20:16] bdmurray: i had a template with unfortunately , and a bit different... they tweaked it ... dont ask me why ;) [20:16] cause i dont know [20:17] mac_v: okay, how about http://pastebin.osuosl.org/28241 [20:19] bdmurray: is only "for" ? correct , shouldnt it be only "in" project... rest is fine [20:20] last line [20:21] okay, in it is [20:21] :) [20:28] i'm just a messenger [21:04] pedro_: that subscribe bug in lp is bug 415166 [21:04] Launchpad bug 415166 in malone "Launchpad says I don't exist when I subscribe to a bug" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415166 [21:05] micahg, yeap, thanks === yvan300 is now known as sniper_cat === sniper_cat is now known as yvan300 === yvan300 is now known as crazy_guy_from_d === crazy_guy_from_d is now known as yvan300 === yvan300 is now known as the_communist === the_communist is now known as yvan300 [23:09] how often does apport retrace? can I set something to retrace? [23:09] that should be handled automatically, what are you looking at? [23:09] I just got notified that 4 ff3.5 bugs were retraced [23:10] I was wondering if there's something that I shouldn't do to make sure they are retraced or what? [23:11] I believe they are initially tagged needs-retracing so just don't remove that tag [23:11] ok, but if I change the status of the bug, will that affect the retracing? [23:12] let me look at the code === asac_ is now known as asac [23:15] hmm, I think they were private to apport before this [23:15] they were not the ones I was thinking of [23:16] the retracer just searches for the tag [23:16] ok [23:16] do we have policies on duping crash reports? [23:16] or is it not possible to create such a thing [23:16] the retracer usually handles duplicating of crash reports on its own [23:17] ok, but aren't those only exact duplicates? [23:18] yes, that is true [23:19] ok, do we have policies what to do next? How many of the functions in the backtrace need to match to be a dup? [23:21] I don't have a good answer for that, you might check with seb128 or asac [23:24] micahg: thats a difficult question [23:24] you cannot say for sure without looking at the code in question [23:24] if the code looks like it can be triggered through different paths then even a single matchin line might be enough [23:25] ok, so as a matter of policy, what can I do with crash reports? [23:25] if the code relies on something really high up in the stack, then everything can be the same. just with different variables etc. [23:25] and it can be a different bug [23:26] micahg: as a rule of thumb, if the stacktrace is identical you can assume its a dupe ;) [23:26] asac: if the stacktrace is identical, woudlnt' apport dupe it? [23:26] in most cases [23:26] but apport doesnt do that if there is any ?? in it afaik [23:26] (but i might be outdated) [23:27] bdmurray: ^^ [23:28] right [23:29] so apport does the right thing the majority of the time [23:29] ok, so I can look through and if I see ?? and the rest matches, I can dupe it? [23:30] micahg, probably. [23:31] the ?? would probably match a line in the fully-resolved bt [23:31] if the rest matches, then the ?? is probably this one line, and it is almost certainly a dupe [23:34] ok [23:35] if in doubt, post here the links to both stacktraces, and we will go together looking at it [23:35] :) thankg hggdh [23:35] *thanks [23:36] welcome [23:48] hello [23:50] yello, BUGabundo [23:50] hey hggdh