| === kiko is now known as kiko-afk | ||
| igc | hi all | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| igc | hi goneri, lifeless | 00:13 |
| igc | goneri: I'll take a look today (hopefully) | 00:13 |
| === nadavoid is now known as nadavoid_afk | ||
| goneri | igc: thanks, this bug is a blocker for git-bzr inclusion in Debian | 00:57 |
| igc | goneri: ah - ok. Thanks for the patch and for hassling me | 00:58 |
| goneri | igc: my pleasure :) | 00:59 |
| gus1 | So I just upgraded to jaunty ppa bzr (from normal jaunty bzr) and my stacked bzr-svn repo is complaining with "ERROR: SvnRepository(...) is not compatible with KnitPackRepository(...) different serializers". Is that some known problem? | 01:00 |
| lifeless | gus1: I don't think stacking bzr on svn has ever really worked | 01:03 |
| gus1 | :( it ~worked on the previous version. Now I have to downgrade before I can retrieve a simple diff. | 01:04 |
| gus1 | upstream has a large svn repo so a non-stacked branch is unfeasible. | 01:05 |
| lifeless | uhm | 01:06 |
| lifeless | file a bug in bzr-svn then | 01:06 |
| lifeless | if you could | 01:06 |
| gus1 | somewhere in launchpad? | 01:06 |
| lifeless | yes :) | 01:06 |
| gus1 | will do. | 01:06 |
| AfC | lifeless: you said "2a now default" but is bzr.dev itself in 2a? | 01:46 |
| AfC | lifeless: I just did a `bzr pull` on that branch and was surprised it worked. | 01:46 |
| james_w | no, 2a is default | 01:46 |
| AfC | (I was expecting it to: 1. fail, then I'd 2. upgrade, then 3. pull would pass) | 01:46 |
| james_w | bzr.dev doesn't use its own default yet | 01:46 |
| AfC | hm | 01:47 |
| lifeless | we haven't migrated yet is all. | 01:47 |
| lifeless | we want to be dogfooding | 01:47 |
| lifeless | but its orthogonal to getting bugs related to doing a 2.0 release done. | 01:47 |
| AfC | hm | 01:50 |
| AfC | sorry, not sure I buy that. | 01:50 |
| AfC | but that's your call, of course. | 01:50 |
| lifeless | there is a bug; its assigned to LarstiQ; you're welcome to comment on it | 01:51 |
| AfC | There are certainly many many other things in your lovely work besides repository format iteration. | 01:51 |
| AfC | Mind, I feel the same way about you guys not using bzr:// | 01:52 |
| lifeless | we use the smart server every day | 01:52 |
| lifeless | but there is the same gap between dev and deployment | 01:52 |
| AfC | lifeless: you mean bzr+ssh:// | 01:52 |
| AfC | lifeless: I'm talking about bzr in daemon mode. | 01:52 |
| lifeless | using bzr:// specifically - well, it doesn't meet our use cases :) | 01:52 |
| lifeless | bbiab | 01:53 |
| AfC | see ya | 01:53 |
| lifeless | back | 02:09 |
| === AfC1 is now known as AfC | ||
| === cprov is now known as cprov-zzz | ||
| === timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ | ||
| * igc lunch | 04:08 | |
| vila | hi all | 07:36 |
| * vila pesters about kernel updates (at least against the daily ones :-) | 07:36 | |
| vila | lifeless: if you're still around, I'd like a little chat about .progress(), I found *one* way to make it work with --parallel, but I'm not sure it's correct | 07:38 |
| lifeless | SET -> CUR? yes, its correct. | 07:40 |
| vila | no, not that part | 07:41 |
| vila | I had to implement .progress in testtools and that's where I'm unclear about whether testtools can have a subunit dependency.. | 07:41 |
| lifeless | optional I guess | 07:42 |
| vila | http://paste.ubuntu.com/255578/ | 07:42 |
| vila | of course that '0' should be subunit.PROGRESS_SET | 07:43 |
| vila | so more context: testresult modification is for ThreadsafeForwardingResult | 07:43 |
| lifeless | yes | 07:44 |
| vila | and testsuite is for ConcurrentTestSuite | 07:44 |
| vila | or... | 07:44 |
| lifeless | the change to init isn't needed | 07:44 |
| lifeless | erm | 07:44 |
| lifeless | it is, sorry. | 07:45 |
| lifeless | but if we're doing it right | 07:45 |
| lifeless | I would just implement progress() | 07:45 |
| lifeless | rather than counting can calling | 07:45 |
| lifeless | *counting and calling* | 07:45 |
| vila | ThreadsafeForwardingResult should become an attribute of ConccurrentTestSuite so that bzr can override it and just defines .progress there... | 07:45 |
| lifeless | huh? | 07:45 |
| lifeless | I think you're smoking something at this point | 07:46 |
| vila | the root problem is that TFS don't implement .progress | 07:46 |
| lifeless | TFR should combine progress data | 07:46 |
| vila | :-D | 07:46 |
| lifeless | CTS shouldn't need to do anything | 07:46 |
| lifeless | neither call progress nor implement it | 07:46 |
| vila | some one has to relay the calls | 07:47 |
| lifeless | yes, the result object | 07:47 |
| vila | that's TFR | 07:47 |
| vila | then someone has to SET the number of tests | 07:48 |
| lifeless | no | 07:48 |
| lifeless | thats what the individual results do back in bzr | 07:48 |
| vila | show them :) | 07:48 |
| lifeless | and why I asked you to insert the decorator before the CTS decorator | 07:48 |
| lifeless | and the result objects show them, which is why TFR has to combine and forward | 07:49 |
| vila | still doesn't work... except if all TestInOtherProcess do the call, all setting the same nb tests, it worked, but is a bit ugly | 07:50 |
| vila | ha, well, wait a minute, I need to explain more | 07:50 |
| vila | I change the way --parallel=fork works to get a better balancing | 07:51 |
| vila | but now, instead of creating n slices of the test suite upfront, I create the slices on demand, | 07:51 |
| vila | so the TIOP objects doesn't know anymore how many tests there will be (in total), they learn about them one slice at a time | 07:52 |
| vila | lifeless: so there is no more point where a single test.run(result) is called which knows about the whole test suite, there are 'concurrency' not one, so either they all call progress(nb_test, SET) or CTS calls it once | 07:54 |
| vila | Does that make sense ? | 07:55 |
| lifeless | what drives demand? | 07:55 |
| vila | displaying [1234/6801 in 19s] instead of [1234 in 19s] | 07:56 |
| lifeless | yes, but what drives your on demand slicing thing | 07:58 |
| vila | 30% less execution time for a full run ? | 07:58 |
| lifeless | _the logic vila_ | 07:59 |
| vila | ha, TesttInOtherProcess now start a new process for a given slice, all TIOP objects synchronize on a semaphore to get slices out of the test suite | 08:00 |
| lifeless | whats a slice | 08:01 |
| vila | tests[first:last] | 08:01 |
| lifeless | is tests flat? | 08:01 |
| vila | yes | 08:01 |
| vila | well, flatten by tests = list(iter_suite_tests(suite)) | 08:02 |
| lifeless | so you know the count | 08:02 |
| vila | yes | 08:02 |
| lifeless | how many TIOP's are there? | 08:02 |
| vila | osutils.local_concurrency | 08:02 |
| lifeless | ok | 08:03 |
| lifeless | so, does the thing that creates TIOPs know the count? | 08:03 |
| vila | yes, but not the result object | 08:03 |
| vila | yes, but it doesn't know not the result object | 08:04 |
| vila | yes, but it doesn't know the result object | 08:04 |
| vila | it's in fork_for_tests | 08:04 |
| lifeless | which creates the suite | 08:04 |
| lifeless | you should decorate the suite | 08:04 |
| lifeless | erm | 08:04 |
| lifeless | no | 08:04 |
| lifeless | you want to decorate the suite, and decorate the result that the suite is run with | 08:05 |
| lifeless | the first decorator will issue the count you know | 08:05 |
| lifeless | the second will eat progress() calls so that the external counts are not passed forward | 08:05 |
| vila | right, except that the result is TFR, created by CTS hence I can't decorate it, looks like we are on the same page now | 08:06 |
| lifeless | you don't need to decorate tfr | 08:07 |
| vila | you just said so ... | 08:07 |
| lifeless | no, I said you need to decorate the result you're run with | 08:08 |
| lifeless | you'll end up with | 08:08 |
| lifeless | BzrTestResult <- ProgressHider <- TFR | 08:08 |
| vila | You mean BZRTransformingResult ? And what is ProgressHider ? The misterious culprit ? | 08:09 |
| === Toksyury1l is now known as Toksyuryel | ||
| lifeless | yes | 08:12 |
| lifeless | you need: | 08:12 |
| lifeless | a test result filter to stop progress data from children | 08:12 |
| lifeless | thats all | 08:13 |
| vila | wow, you're telling me that to have progress reporting I need to stop progress data, let me have one more coffee :) | 08:14 |
| lifeless | yes, because you want to do a global optimisation (your TIOPs) | 08:15 |
| vila | ok, that means I may have been on the right path, yesterday but failed to realize it, | 08:16 |
| vila | I think I will make a first submission without the progress part and add it in another submission, to make things clearer | 08:16 |
| poolie | hi vila | 08:28 |
| vila | hi poolie ! | 08:28 |
| benchik | hello | 09:21 |
| benchik | i'm trying to bzr merge but i get : bzr: ERROR: No location specified or remembered | 09:22 |
| benchik | please help | 09:22 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: what do you want to merge from? | 09:22 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: `bzr merge location/to/branch/to/merge/from` | 09:22 |
| benchik | LarstiQ: the cwd | 09:22 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: ok, what do you want to merge in to the cwd? | 09:23 |
| benchik | LarstiQ: i always did bzr merge from a dir where i have the sourcecode and it worked, today it doesn' | 09:24 |
| benchik | t | 09:24 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: that must have been a different dir | 09:25 |
| benchik | nope | 09:25 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: as the message mentions, `bzr merge` either takes a location to merge into your current branch, or it takes the remembered location | 09:25 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: which in this case is not set | 09:25 |
| benchik | LarstiQ: it was set before. don't know what happened | 09:26 |
| benchik | LarstiQ: ok i gave it the full path and it worked but i wonder why did it forget the path | 09:27 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: possible reasons: 1) it got removed from .bzr/branch/branch.conf 2) it got removed from ~/.bazaar/locations.conf, 3) harddisk failure | 09:28 |
| LarstiQ | benchik: or 4) this is not the branch you think it i | 09:28 |
| LarstiQ | s | 09:28 |
| benchik | i think it's the former few | 09:28 |
| * igc dinner | 09:30 | |
| vila | hey LarstiQ ! | 09:48 |
| LarstiQ | hey vila :) | 09:48 |
| matkor | Hi, I get bzr internal error( 1.8 and 1.15) when try added files having enter in their name like: antique^J.py | 10:06 |
| matkor | when trying to commit such added files to be strict | 10:06 |
| matkor | should I report it as bug ? | 10:10 |
| LarstiQ | matkor: yes | 10:10 |
| poolie | matkor: i think it's a known bug | 10:24 |
| poolie | you should be able to find it then | 10:24 |
| poolie | sorry | 10:24 |
| matkor | poolie: Yes, I found it .. so not reporting again, can I somehow bump its priority ? - seems it's lasting for a long time now ... | 10:32 |
| poolie | you can click 'affects me too' or comment on it | 10:37 |
| moldy | hi | 10:41 |
| moldy | how do i make bzr forget the submit branch? | 11:27 |
| moldy | ah, never mind | 11:35 |
| === beuno_ is now known as beuno | ||
| === kiko-afk is now known as kiko | ||
| vila | morning jam :) | 14:26 |
| jam | morning vila | 14:26 |
| jam | I'm a little slow today, have a mild fever | 14:26 |
| vila | ow | 14:27 |
| lifeless | jam: rest up | 14:27 |
| lifeless | health++ | 14:27 |
| jam | lifeless: thanks. | 14:29 |
| vila | jam: just a small question: am I correct in reading plugin.get_standard_plugin_path that windows has no concept of "site" plugins ? Only bzrlib/plugins and $HOME/plugins right ? | 14:29 |
| jam | what are you still doing up? | 14:29 |
| jam | vila: correct | 14:29 |
| vila | jam: good, go rest now :) | 14:29 |
| vila | jam: or land 1.19-kg-sorted, whatever is better for your morale :D | 14:30 |
| lifeless | jam: just finished raiding | 14:32 |
| jam | lifeless: ah, I hope it went well. I assume you guys are in ToC? | 14:33 |
| lifeless | tonight was a ulduar run, but yeah, wehave toc full cleared so far each week | 14:34 |
| vila | toc ? | 14:37 |
| jam | vila: Trial of Champions, IIRC. The current last-raid in World of Warcraft | 14:38 |
| vila | haa, ok :) | 14:38 |
| * lifeless sleeps | 14:40 | |
| vila | nothing related to cObsessive-Compulsive Disorder (aka toc in french :-) | 14:40 |
| === nekohayo_ is now known as nekohayo | ||
| igc | night all | 15:20 |
| kiko | hey, is there anyone around that knows a bit of bzr-git? | 16:03 |
| kiko | http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30506243/windmill-trunk-log.txt | 16:03 |
| james_w | kiko: hey, rockstar filed that one as bug 414918 | 16:14 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 414918 in bzr-git "Pitivi import fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414918 | 16:14 |
| james_w | doesn't help you much though | 16:14 |
| rockstar | kiko, I'm not sure why it's failing, but I suspect it might have been a revision generated by an old git | 16:15 |
| saedelaere | hi | 16:31 |
| saedelaere | is there something like cia.vc that can be used with bazaar? i have a bazaar repo at sourceforge.net. Whenever someone makes a commit i want a message send to my irc channel. | 16:32 |
| === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch | ||
| LarstiQ | saedelaere: there is a cia plugin | 16:34 |
| saedelaere | and does this plugin work with sourceforge? | 16:34 |
| LarstiQ | I have no idea on what sf does | 16:35 |
| saedelaere | ok thanks | 16:38 |
| saedelaere | perhaps i can get it to work | 16:38 |
| LarstiQ | saedelaere: you can trigger it locally instead of on sf | 16:40 |
| saedelaere | http://people.samba.org/bzr/jelmer/bzr-cia/trunk/ | 16:43 |
| saedelaere | damn the directory is empty | 16:43 |
| luks | it's a bzr branch :) | 16:55 |
| luks | I thought anybody using bzr has to be used to empty directories :) | 16:56 |
| saedelaere | lol ok now i see :) | 17:41 |
| === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno | ||
| === abentley is now known as abentley-lunch | ||
| === EdwinGrubbs is now known as Edwin-lunch | ||
| vila | wow, who said downloads were hard to find at https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr ? :-D | 18:04 |
| beuno | vila, I did | 18:04 |
| beuno | and I fixed it! | 18:04 |
| beuno | :) | 18:04 |
| vila | beuno: woohoo, that's a change for sure :-) | 18:05 |
| === Noldorin_ is now known as Noldorin | ||
| mtaylor | lifeless: you still awake? | 18:21 |
| mtaylor | oh, hrm, probably not | 18:22 |
| mtaylor | anybody around who can point me to info on subtree support stuff? | 18:22 |
| vila | mtaylor: try abentley-lunch (after his lunch that is :) | 18:28 |
| mtaylor | vila: sweet. thanks | 18:29 |
| mtaylor | abentley-lunch: whenever you aren't eating lunch... | 18:30 |
| vila | mtaylor: as appetizer read: http://bazaar-vcs.org/NestedTreesDesign | 18:30 |
| === abentley-lunch is now known as abentley | ||
| abentley | mtaylor: The subtree stuff is not ready for use yet. | 19:26 |
| === Edwin-lunch is now known as EdwinGrubbs | ||
| lifeless | moin | 21:30 |
| hno | Is there an easy command for making a branch for the current uncommitted changes? I.e. working on something which felt quick at start and realizing it was much larger and needs a branch of it's own for a while? | 21:41 |
| hno | I know shelve/unshelve but it's not quite the same thing.. | 21:42 |
| LarstiQ | hno: you can try a combination of bzr branch . ../feature; cd ../feature; bzr merge --uncommitted ../trunk | 21:42 |
| lifeless | hno: so you're already writing some code | 21:44 |
| lifeless | hno: and you want to turn it into a branch? | 21:44 |
| hno | LarstiQ: Thanks.. could obviously be improved a bit.. | 21:44 |
| hno | lifeless: Yes. | 21:44 |
| lifeless | bzr switch -b ../newbranch | 21:44 |
| hno | lifeless: bzr: ERROR: no such option: -b | 21:46 |
| lifeless | well, you have something to look forward too in a newwer bzr:) | 21:46 |
| hno | lifeless: 1.18? | 21:47 |
| hno | lifeless: Hmm.. ChangeLog says -b was added in 1.17, but I am using 1.17.. | 21:50 |
| lifeless | could be a plugin intercerpting it | 21:51 |
| hno | lifeless: Only plugin I have is bzrtools I think.. | 21:52 |
| LarstiQ | lifeless: or a misattribution | 21:52 |
| lifeless | try bzr help --no-plugins switch | 21:52 |
| hno | lifeless: Not mentioned. | 21:52 |
| lifeless | ok | 21:53 |
| lifeless | docs are wrong then :( | 21:53 |
| lifeless | where do you see 1.17 mentioned for it? | 21:53 |
| fullermd | It's under the 1.17 heading in NEWS. | 21:55 |
| lifeless | ugh | 21:55 |
| hno | Why is there a 1.17 heading in the middle of NEWS for 1.18rc1? | 21:56 |
| === cprov is now known as cprov-afk | ||
| lifeless | hno: is 1.17 repeated? | 22:04 |
| Noldorin | hi lifeless | 22:06 |
| lifeless | hi Noldorin | 22:07 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: i got a reply back from the server admin | 22:07 |
| Noldorin | http://pastebin.ca/1535577 | 22:08 |
| Noldorin | i instructed him to attempt pushing a bzr repo | 22:09 |
| Noldorin | but he seemed to ignore that :S | 22:09 |
| lifeless | its definitely not operating normally for win2003 server | 22:09 |
| Noldorin | heh | 22:10 |
| Noldorin | yeah | 22:10 |
| Noldorin | but the thing is, a simple rename does work fine | 22:10 |
| lifeless | we have other users using that platform without the issues you've reported | 22:10 |
| Noldorin | so it's clearly the sequence of commands that causes the problem | 22:10 |
| Noldorin | yeah | 22:10 |
| Noldorin | i know | 22:10 |
| lifeless | here's what I'd do | 22:10 |
| lifeless | there is a built in ftp client in windows | 22:10 |
| lifeless | if you start cmd.exe | 22:11 |
| lifeless | then type 'ftp' | 22:11 |
| Noldorin | yeah. there's one in windows explorer too | 22:11 |
| Noldorin | ok | 22:11 |
| lifeless | you could use the trace we made to create a series of commands | 22:11 |
| lifeless | put that in a text document | 22:11 |
| lifeless | then paste it into that window | 22:11 |
| lifeless | and the ftp client will run them | 22:11 |
| lifeless | I would include every command | 22:12 |
| Noldorin | yeah, that's what i was going to suggest to | 22:12 |
| lifeless | and the commands that put files - you'll need to create files on disk locally that you can put up | 22:12 |
| Noldorin | so i'll attempt that right now | 22:12 |
| Noldorin | maybe that will be clearer to the admin as well | 22:12 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: should i use the dhtransport log for a push using the unmodified bzr program? | 22:15 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: that would make sense to me | 22:15 |
| Noldorin | ok | 22:15 |
| lifeless | skip the chmods as it happens without them | 22:15 |
| Noldorin | yeah | 22:15 |
| Noldorin | and i'll just replicate the appropiate filesystem structure for the repo to test | 22:16 |
| hno | lifeless: seems so, with some changes and a different heading than what's used in 1.17... Would pull up a launchpad diff url if launchpad worked proper... | 22:29 |
| lifeless | :( | 22:29 |
| hno | launchpad worked some minutes ago, but now I just get redirected to the main page when trying to browse revisions from https://code.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/1.18 | 22:33 |
| * Noldorin gets confused | 22:34 | |
| * hno is often confused, but right now mostly tired. | 22:35 | |
| Noldorin | heh | 22:35 |
| Noldorin | i'm probably confused mainly because i'm tired | 22:35 |
| Noldorin | and because windows ftp servers are god awful | 22:36 |
| hno | Are they? Last time I accessed one I din't have to notice apart from slightly different directory listing than usual.. | 22:37 |
| Noldorin | well my one is at least | 22:38 |
| Noldorin | lifeless will verify that :) | 22:38 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: any chance i could give you an ftp login to my server so you could try a few things out? (i.e. reproducing the issue manually) | 22:38 |
| Noldorin | i just feel like we're spending more time than we should with me pestering you about what i need to do next... | 22:39 |
| lifeless | hno: we have one that claims a rename worked but prevents renaming a different dir to the original path | 22:40 |
| lifeless | mv foo bar | 22:40 |
| lifeless | mv quux foo *boom* | 22:40 |
| lifeless | but the first command doesn't error, and you can even rm bar/gam; rmd bar before the second mv | 22:40 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: judging by the log, bzr doesn't seem to be understanding the error messages the ftp server replies with | 22:42 |
| denys | I am working on a STARTTLS-type extension for bzr:// (to complement my bzrs:// merge proposal) --- it is easy on the client side, but on the server side requests are executed at a level that knows nothing about the socket used. I am unsure how to proceed (elegantly). any suggestions? | 22:44 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: the server is giving an error? | 22:45 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: could you put your test case and the output you get in the bug please ;) | 22:45 |
| Noldorin | well if you look at the -dtransport log, bzr complains about not being able to parse the server error response | 22:45 |
| Noldorin | the one i showed you last time | 22:45 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: hmm, I didn't see that. | 22:45 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: we should still be treating it as an error ... | 22:46 |
| Noldorin | yeah.. | 22:48 |
| Noldorin | you see it now? | 22:48 |
| === kiko is now known as kiko-afk | ||
| poolie | denys: hm it's a good question | 23:04 |
| poolie | i would say that although it's a higher level, there probably is an object chain that you can walk back up to the medium | 23:04 |
| poolie | or if not, it might be tasteful to add one | 23:05 |
| denys | poolie: not from the request | 23:05 |
| poolie | jam, are you still around? want to catch up? | 23:05 |
| lifeless | denys: I'd be inclined to do TLS by just opening with an SSL handshake | 23:05 |
| poolie | i mean it is inherently a kind of inversion of control, to have a higher-level command affect the layer it's running across | 23:05 |
| lifeless | the server can decide that it doesn't look like a normal handshake and switch to it. | 23:05 |
| poolie | lifeless: just have the server say 'oh that looks like ssl'? | 23:05 |
| lifeless | yes | 23:06 |
| lifeless | they aren't confusable AFAIK :) | 23:06 |
| poolie | mm | 23:06 |
| poolie | that could be cleaner | 23:06 |
| poolie | iirc you disliked the idea of it just detecting http in the same way though? | 23:06 |
| lifeless | HTTP clients don't know how to handle an older version of our server | 23:07 |
| lifeless | browsers specifically | 23:07 |
| denys | I thought it would be nice to negotiate the encryption wanted/supported | 23:07 |
| lifeless | denys: doesn't SSL do that itself? | 23:07 |
| lifeless | denys: also, any negotiation done in cleartext can't be trusted, it could be attacked to get a lower level via MITM | 23:08 |
| denys | lifeless: no. there are different incompatible SSL and tthen there TSL and then there is what ever they'll invent next | 23:08 |
| lifeless | poolie: I do have mixed feelings about multiple protocols on one socket in general; but not 'its always bad' or 'its always good' :) | 23:08 |
| denys | lifeless: that's a point I have been worrying about | 23:09 |
| denys | my plan was to start with the lowest common denonminator | 23:10 |
| denys | add negitiation latter if wanted | 23:10 |
| denys | the lowest common denominator is already in my ssl patch - I just want to make it opportunistic | 23:12 |
| denys | I have code to make the decision in authentication.conf | 23:13 |
| denys | the point is that you can contact a regular bzr server and then cause it to upgrade the encryption level to whatever level you prefer, server authentication can be added on top of that for python 1.6. | 23:19 |
| poolie | right, getting to native authentication would be great | 23:20 |
| poolie | and | 23:20 |
| poolie | well, now actually | 23:20 |
| poolie | to be a bit more specific | 23:20 |
| poolie | authentication and encryption that don't rely on OS accounts or setting up a separate server or client would be great | 23:20 |
| poolie | that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be within the bzr protocol | 23:21 |
| denys | that's what I want | 23:21 |
| poolie | perhaps we should do both of them by acting as an ssh client and server? | 23:21 |
| denys | I want to explore te | 23:21 |
| denys | the bzr server option | 23:21 |
| denys | many admins will never agree to give external ssh accounts | 23:22 |
| denys | not in french universities anyway :-( | 23:23 |
| poolie | i'm suggesting that you run | 23:23 |
| poolie | 'bzr serve --ssh' | 23:23 |
| poolie | and it listens on some port | 23:23 |
| poolie | and authenticates you against a bzr-specific database of accounts and keys or passwords | 23:24 |
| poolie | using paramiko | 23:24 |
| denys | I don't want to do something this specific. I prefer to setup a framework where arbitrary authentication methods can be setup. | 23:25 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: so would an ftp login to my server be of some use to you? | 23:27 |
| Noldorin | just for a bit of testing | 23:27 |
| denys | a bit like PAM, but simple instead | 23:27 |
| poolie | ok | 23:28 |
| poolie | you realize there's some scope for that within ssh? | 23:28 |
| poolie | i'm just thinking: there's already a protocol that lets you negotiate encryption and authentication | 23:28 |
| poolie | maybe we should use it | 23:29 |
| lifeless | denys: a custom ssh server will perform better than https; theres less restrictions and overhead in the way we work over it | 23:29 |
| poolie | i think he's running bzr+ssl | 23:30 |
| poolie | a la stunnel | 23:30 |
| lifeless | oh hmm | 23:30 |
| lifeless | that should be equivalent | 23:30 |
| denys | yes, but ssh needs an account on the target machine and some admins will NEVER allow it. I want another degree of freedom. | 23:30 |
| lifeless | denys: ssh doesn't ;) | 23:30 |
| lifeless | denys: launchpads ssh server doesn't use local accounts, nor would what poolie suggested | 23:31 |
| poolie | denys: the thing is: OpenSSH requires an OS account | 23:31 |
| lifeless | "opensshd" uses the system account db, but there are pure python ssh servere implementations | 23:31 |
| poolie | jinx | 23:31 |
| denys | you need some account, and then you play games with different connections | 23:32 |
| poolie | well | 23:32 |
| denys | that's never going to fly for me | 23:32 |
| poolie | actually i don't think we're understanding each other | 23:32 |
| poolie | what you're talking about is, I think: I have one account on a server, I start a process there listening on a port, then people can connect to it, authenticate, and do stuff? | 23:33 |
| denys | I have been working 3 years to get some sort of external VCS access for our univ. It's really difficult to get things through the administrative hurdles. | 23:33 |
| poolie | i'm suggesting just the same architecture except that the protocol encoding would be that specified by the SSH protocol | 23:34 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: ? | 23:34 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: ? | 23:35 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: see my previous message :) | 23:35 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: I'm still very focused on our 2.0 release; I doubt I'll have time to personally test this for a few weeks. | 23:35 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: I can keep giving you guidance, but for now thats about it. | 23:36 |
| Noldorin | ok, fair enough | 23:36 |
| poolie | denys: do you see what i mean? | 23:36 |
| poolie | i really do want to support your case of having sysadmins who aren't going to help | 23:37 |
| denys | poolie: this is not helping me. I would like to know how to plug an encryption upgrade command into the bzr server. | 23:37 |
| poolie | i think you should do that by making connections from the request object up to the medium | 23:37 |
| poolie | and then you can call along them from the request handler to say 'start encrypting now' | 23:38 |
| poolie | but i'm kind of confused because i don't understand why that doesn't help | 23:38 |
| poolie | the thing about running the ssh protocol | 23:38 |
| Noldorin | lifeless: was wondering if i could get bzr to print out the exact ftp commands used in its log | 23:39 |
| denys | it doesn't help because the request object has NO references to anything above. | 23:39 |
| lifeless | Noldorin: edit ftp/__init__.py | 23:39 |
| lifeless | denys: poolie: I think you're talking past each other | 23:40 |
| denys | there is the do method and that's is | 23:40 |
| poolie | Noldorin: if you do that and make it turn on by -Dftp (see debug_flags) that would be nice to merge | 23:40 |
| poolie | lifeless: i think so too :-( | 23:40 |
| lifeless | denys: I think you're talking about where to write some specific code. | 23:40 |
| denys | lifeless: probably | 23:40 |
| Noldorin | poolie: could do :) | 23:40 |
| lifeless | poolie: I think you're talking about the design for getting encryption hooked into bzr's server without needing OS configuration | 23:40 |
| poolie | yes, i am | 23:41 |
| denys | poolie: you should approve my ssl patch then ;-) | 23:41 |
| poolie | well, i'm trying to answer the first one too, or assure denys that's also possible | 23:41 |
| lifeless | my take on this is: | 23:44 |
| lifeless | denys: you can probably write an upgrade command for the smart server, but it may be a bit ugly. It would be cleaner to do encryption right up-front if possible. Poolie wants to talk about how that might look. | 23:44 |
| denys | lifeless: I have already done encryption up front - see my proposal on lp | 23:45 |
| lifeless | yup, which is getting reviewed and polished ;) | 23:45 |
| denys | I wanted to also provide an upgrade path for a more traditional connection | 23:45 |
| lifeless | denys: what does that offer over the ssl support ? | 23:46 |
| denys | you can connect to a normal bzr server and demand an ecnryption upgrade - same advantages as STARTTLS for other protocols | 23:47 |
| lifeless | denys: I don't really get the advantage; you connect to a port and you get encryption, either way. | 23:48 |
| denys | its the same port! | 23:48 |
| fullermd | For one thing, it saves having to juggle multiple ports. | 23:48 |
| lifeless | denys: you don't need an upgrade command to do it on the same port | 23:49 |
| denys | lifeless: maybe not. but it seemed simplest to me, with a possibility to negotiate the type of encryption. | 23:52 |
| lifeless | we've just recently had a mammoth thread on the squid dev list about upgrade: and websockets | 23:53 |
| lifeless | simple often isn't ;) | 23:53 |
| lifeless | anyhow | 23:53 |
| poolie | it seems potentially insecure | 23:54 |
| poolie | easy to make a mistake about whether you really got a strong connection | 23:54 |
| lifeless | so conceptual issues with having such a command: | 23:54 |
| lifeless | - how will it behave in half duplex connections? | 23:55 |
| lifeless | that is, if done on an http smart server, will it work, or claim to work and break, or just break? | 23:55 |
| poolie | igc: did you move some of the doc files into _static? | 23:55 |
| poolie | i think that might account for the broken links just posted about | 23:56 |
| lifeless | - what happens to the framing for the end of the current request/response? How do we make sure the wire is clean/we don't have any noise in the link | 23:56 |
| denys | I think you guys are asking the wrong questions. there is a basic level of encryption: that's what available portably in python. higher levels could then be negotiated. | 23:56 |
| poolie | hm | 23:59 |
| poolie | what question do you think we're asking? | 23:59 |
| poolie | it's true that ssl (usually) ships with python and paramiko does not | 23:59 |
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