/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/19/#kubuntu-devel.txt

lex79apachelogger: well, no needs any patches to building00:04
Riddellryanakca: seriously?  why?00:26
lex79Riddell: what should I do? keep the debian/patches folder because is a merge but is no longer need, or leave it out ?00:36
Riddelllex79: keep it if it does no harm01:00
lex79ok thanks, ktorrent is ready in LP01:01
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Riddellboost is a beast01:23
Riddellfabo: what's the best place to learn about debhelper 7?01:25
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seeleapachelogger: the firefox installer is great!01:52
seelewe should consider doing that for more software01:52
ryanakcaRiddell: iirc, because it's an over-engineered solution to a non-existent problem, it isn't practical for large projects with many contributors and where copyright isn't assigned, etc. I'll try to find the link to the ML thread in my irc logs01:55
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ryanakcaRiddell: http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/anti-dep502:01
alexeyПривет...02:36
spstarrvery nice kdm theme in development :)03:45
spstarrhmm05:21
spstarrok so it's air's theme, kubuntu development looks very good05:21
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faboRiddell: man dh07:47
faboyou can look to my packages too07:47
fabogrep something like override_dh07:48
apacheloggerseele: well, wouldn't that fill-up the menu pretty soon? :)10:18
apacheloggerwe could make an interface that assits with installing most popular apps, but that would be nothing more than a simplified kpackagekit I suppose10:19
apacheloggerRiddell, kwwii: bug 34532110:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 345321 in kubuntu-default-settings "New usplash theme's progress bar is not visible on the right side of the bar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34532110:32
Riddellusplash may not be too important for long10:39
davmor2apachelogger: it's only cause the colour on the right hand side is so dark that it just blends in with the black background :)10:43
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apacheloggerdavmor2: and that is bugworthy?10:49
apacheloggeryou know, I really wish there was a bug stats "dont-care-leave-me-alone"10:49
davmor2apachelogger: it's only bug worthy because people will think that it has finished when it has and may think that the system has stalled11:00
apacheloggerdavmor2: how slow must a system be to stay long enough in that section where dark blue ~= black11:03
davmor2apachelogger: it's about a 1/3 of the way along and it's more on the live cd than on an installed system11:04
davmor2sorry 2/3's11:04
apacheloggerhm11:05
davmor2then it's there for maybe 10-15 seconds of doing nothing11:05
apacheloggerI am quite sure if you peopel had sensible screens you would see the difference between dark blue and black :P11:05
apacheloggerI certainly never noticed this flaw11:05
apacheloggerRiddell: asac will talk to the trademarks contact about using the logo in our installer11:08
davmor2I have 2 very capable screens which have excellent white to black ratio's thank you very much indeed :P visually impaired people would have an even harder time of it than my 20-20 vision.   Also just to add at this early a stage for me to be this picky means that the kde team must be doing something right :)11:09
apacheloggerthere are loads of such reports :|11:10
apacheloggeras if it was important compared to the fact that upgrading meta packages will not work and that network mangement does not work and that imap looses data every once in a while...11:11
apacheloggerand of course reports like bug 41243511:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 412435 in kdebase "[karmic] kmenuedit does not bind shortcuts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41243511:11
apacheloggerwhich are nothing more but forwards of a KDE bug with the single use of making the issue more visible and thinking that some kubuntu dood might think it is important enough to fix it right away11:12
apacheloggerof course those are wrong assumptions and so the report rots away11:12
Riddellapachelogger: I care less about the trademark than about the non-free copyright licence11:17
apacheloggerRiddell: that applies to firefox as well11:17
apacheloggerand to thunderbird11:17
apacheloggerneither of them is in restricted though AFAIK11:17
Riddellno tech board dispensation, other packages would need the same11:18
apacheloggeroh my11:19
apacheloggerRiddell: so it will live in restricted, does that cause any problems in regards to getting it on the CD?11:19
RiddellI rejected ubiquity slideshow on the same grounds recently11:19
Riddellrestricted is for drivers only11:20
apacheloggeron to the tech board then11:22
* apachelogger notes that this causes way too much of a headache11:22
Riddellwell you can just ship with the plain globe icon11:24
RiddellI should say I'm not really in favour of this idea, I'd rather just ship with a decent browser, but nobody else agrees with me that Arora is a decent browser11:25
apachelogger:)11:25
SputRiddell: not before it has some sort of adblock :)11:31
RiddellI remember, back when I was a lad, we were the first distro to have adblock by default and that was controvertial enough.  I'm pretty sure firefox doesn't ship with adblock by default.11:32
smarterRiddell: I agree! :) Arora is the way to go.11:35
davmor2meh kubuntu alternate test failed :( unmet dependencies12:04
SputRiddell: I'm not talking about "default". Afaik it's not possible to block ads on arora at all, is it?12:08
SputI know that I wouldn't want to surf a web with all the ads, in any case :)12:09
smarterSput: adblock support for Arora is currently being worked on12:21
Sputsmarter: ah cool :) it's about the only thing still keeping me from using arora on a regular basis (that, and some issue with too-small fonts on some pages)12:22
seeleapachelogger: well.. a simplified kpackagekit for the most popular apps, and then using kpackagekit to install packages might not be a bad idea.13:23
seeleright now there is no application listing in kpackagekit so installing software by name is pretty intimidating13:23
JontheEchidnakmenuedit is a burning piece of crap, much alike to KHC in it's suckiness13:23
smarterseele: I don't know if you've already seen it, but the Gnome PackageKit GUI is  a lot more usable than KPackageKit and provides category lists: http://www.packagekit.org/pk-screenshots.html13:26
seelesmarter: we dont have anyone to work on kpackagekit so it's pretty difficult to improve13:27
seelekpackagekit upstream considers it complete13:27
seeleother distros were interested in improving it, but the kpackagekit guys didnt seem interested13:27
Riddellhaving a simplified kpackagekit UI is something we said we wanted when we first chose it and rgreening was working on it13:27
seeleis he still?13:29
Riddellseele: not sure, last I heard he was waiting on something from upstream13:32
Riddellhello dantti13:32
danttiRiddell: hello13:32
danttiScottK: hey13:34
danttiScottK: kpk for 0.5 needs only testing now.. although i still think you should not ship it due the problems with apt, if you wanna test it go for it :)13:35
ScottKThanks.13:43
ScottKapachelogger: I did start to look at moving akonadi to mysql 5.1, but it FTBFS on the first try and I didn't get back to it.13:46
* JontheEchidna can take a further look at akonadi13:50
apacheloggerdantti: problems with apt?13:51
danttiapachelogger: yep, the py apt backend that cannod do a lot of things, like install java13:52
dantti*cannot13:52
apacheloggeroh missing debconf support I suppose?13:52
danttiapachelogger: that's just one of the three main problems13:53
apacheloggeroh dear oh dear13:54
apacheloggerdantti: there isn't much of an option at this point, since adept is abondend13:54
danttiI'm working on a patch to packagekit that will fix one of those (allow removal of packages while installing), so i can continue with aptcc (a cpp backend for apt)13:55
danttiapachelogger: yep, there isn't the only problem is that users think kpackagekit is the one to blame.. :(13:56
apachelogger:S13:57
apacheloggerwe just have to push enough fancy stuff for 9.10, so they stop noticing :D13:57
LureRiddell: re akonadi-resource-googledata: should I upload new package with upstream patch for licence change?14:15
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RiddellLure: yes please14:27
LureRiddell: ok, will try to do this tonight14:27
smarterapachelogger: isn't that the Microsoft way of doing things? :p14:33
SputRiddell: speaking of browsers: what about rekonq? I'm just trying it and it seems to be looking nice14:45
Sputlike arora, but with KDE integration :)14:46
ScottKLast I heard upstream said it wasn't suitable for packaging yet.14:46
Sputah ok14:47
ScottKAt least that was it's state back in May when we were deciding this stuff.14:47
Sputjust noticed that it's using konq's web shortcuts now :)14:48
cbrgoogle chrome <314:48
JontheEchidnaScottK: http://jmthomas.toniox.org/akonadi_1.2.0-2ubuntu1.dsc14:57
JontheEchidnaI suppose I should throw some diffs up there too for the merge14:58
ScottKRiddell: Did you see DSA 1868-1 (kde4libs vulnerabilities)?15:00
ScottKJontheEchidna: I'm on vacation this week.  I'm about to head out to the beach.  I'll look at it this afternoon, perhaps, but if you can find someone else, that might be better.15:00
JontheEchidnaOK15:01
* JontheEchidna looks around15:01
RiddellScottK: oh yes thanks for reminding me15:02
JontheEchidnaoh, I missed one or two things with the merge15:02
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: can haz sponsor for akonadi stuff? http://jmthomas.toniox.org/15:06
JontheEchidnabbiab15:11
ryanakcaRiddell: It looks like the meeting for a new feature tour for ubuntu.com has been put off indefinitely, so we won't by able to just take theirs and retheme. Do you have any requirements for it?15:20
ryanakcargreening: Were you still interested in helping out with website stuff?15:21
Riddellryanakca: show the users the obvious tasks that users need to do15:21
Riddellrgreening: seele was asking about the simplified kpackagekit interface you were looking into ages ago15:21
rgreeningryanakca: I may have some time if there's something small...15:23
ryanakcargreening: Depends if you consider helping build a feature tour "small" ;)15:23
rgreeningRiddell: hmm... I believe we actually need to write a seperate app to do this "correctly". THe hacky patch became unappropriate at some point along the way (IMO)15:24
rgreeningryanakca: maybe we could have a meeting and see what "cool" items we should cover in a feature tour. Then go from there.15:24
Riddellrgreening: if it could be done in python, ervin has a team of students who might be interested15:25
rgreeningRiddell: that would be awesome.15:25
ryanakcargreening: *nod*, content can be decided at a meeting, but I'm guessing we can start on the layout without the content?15:26
rgreeningand yeah, python is the way to go write this (AFAICT)15:26
rgreeningryanakca: to a small degree, sure.15:26
rgreeningRiddell: does Ubuntu have a package which covers this for them? maybe something we can either port or use as a ui guide...15:28
* rgreening isn't sure if they have this or not either15:28
Riddellrgreening: which covers what?15:29
rgreeningRiddell: did you zone out :) the Simple App install picker to complement KPackageKit (e.g. not a patch but a seperate external app which can use app-install data and talk to packagekit/policykit)15:30
rgreeningyou know, the conversation aboue .. hahaha15:31
Riddellrgreening: gnome-app-install15:31
* rgreening ducks15:31
Riddellit doesn't use packagekit though15:31
rgreeningRiddell: ok. Thats what we need, and maybe port to use KDE/Qt and packagekit could be done. Is that package C/C++ or a python script?15:32
Riddellit's C I think15:33
Riddellactually looks like python15:33
seeleRiddell: i thought ervin didnt want to do the project because kpk people werent interested15:33
Riddellseele: but this would be a new app in python that fills a notable gap15:35
rgreeningseele: which is why it should also be a seperate package. the hooks are there (I help write the spec for it) so packagekit with apt-backend should be doable (forgetting the KPK front-end)15:35
rgreeningRiddell: I say go for it. If you have ready, willing and able peps...15:36
rgreenings/peps/peeps/15:36
Riddellrgreening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255771/15:37
rgreeninghehe.15:38
ryanakcaRiddell: Also, see http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.devel/browse_thread/thread/f8c8a1a11f1b035e#16:45
Riddellmm16:46
spstarrRiddell: good work on karmic :)17:07
* spstarr has it in a VirtualBox VM right now17:07
Riddellooh a fan17:08
spstarr;) a developing one17:10
spstarrtorn though,  Fedora vs Kubuntu,  bleeding edge vs lesser bleeding  ... I need my r6xx video 3D and fedora (being the developer of radeon bits) is forcing me into a situation at the moment17:15
spstarrif Buntu had a 'sid' it would be so nice17:16
seelewas kregexpeditor packaged for jaunty? i see an entry for intrepid and older17:16
nixternalRiddell: you have a ton of fans! I am a Riddell fanboi17:19
spstarrwell, I last used Kubuntu hmm.. goodness.. 2006 or so? much has changed though17:19
nixternalmuch has broken you mean :p17:20
spstarrlol17:21
spstarrKarmic looks stable so far17:21
nixternalScottK: oi, I will have to figure out what to do when a system starts up, and the wifi drivers aren't installed and it is showing 0 devices... :/17:21
spstarrStrigi Desktop File Indexer is broken, but it's never worked in KDE really17:22
Riddellseele: it does seem to have disappeared17:24
Riddellseele: probably not been ported to kde 4 I think17:25
spstarryou might wanna backport my .desktop file change in 4.3 :)17:25
spstarryou can dock the weather forecast plasmoid to the systray17:25
spstarri thought I got it into 4.317:26
JontheEchidnaplasmoids-in-systray a 4.4 feature17:26
spstarryou sure? the networkmanager plasmoid docks in systray :)17:27
spstarrX-Plasma-NotificationArea=true17:27
JontheEchidnait's a knotificationitem at the moment17:27
spstarrah ok17:27
JontheEchidnathe plasmoid is being rebuilt17:27
ryanakcaAnybody have any experience packaging python plasmoids?17:34
JontheEchidnaIt's not a common practice since they're easily distributable through KDE-look17:36
seeleRiddell: doesnt look like it :(17:37
MsMacoif you misspell StartupNotify in a .desktop, is that the same as setting to False?17:37
MsMacoi'm wondering why the typo'd version actually...does...work like the false it was intended to be17:37
* seele oggles at maco's /nick17:38
Riddellseele: I was just telling her off myself :)17:38
seelelet's not get too gender crazy in here, i might have to abandon the channel like a bad linxuchix hangout17:39
MsMaco*grumble* fine17:40
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seelemuhahaha17:40
=== maco is now known as seele_says_i_hav
seele_says_i_havawwww17:40
seele_says_i_havthat was: /nick seele_says_i_have_to_be_plain_maco17:40
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seelemaco: you can be whatever you want17:42
=== seele is now known as MrMagoo
* MrMagoo looks for her glasses17:43
=== MrMagoo is now known as seele
spstarrI want to be a Mr Potato head17:43
spstarr;p17:43
ryanakcaJontheEchidna: But if we wanted it on a default install?17:47
ryanakcaJontheEchidna: (or at least that was the plan when it was first mentioned to me last month)17:47
JontheEchidnayeah, then that's a bit of a pickle17:47
ryanakcaJontheEchidna: *nod* ... We can't use plasmapkg -i since it requires us to have X. Installing it under /usr using the same layout plasmapkg uses for ~/.kde fails. Packaging it like a python module so that you can import it from python appears to fail. Etc, etc, etc.17:49
spstarrhmm17:52
spstarrKPackageKit in karmic doesn't seem to pop up?17:52
spstarri have to initiate it to see that it has updates available17:53
macowe have opposite fail!17:53
macomine continues to pop up even after i've installed updates17:53
spstarrhaha17:55
spstarr24 updates to + 4 blocked17:55
spstarrtoday17:55
danttimaco: but does it still list them on the updater ui?18:10
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Riddellmm, translations are looking good in karmic19:27
Riddellwell, except for Arora19:31
Riddellsmarter: do you use KDE in French?19:31
Riddelldoes Arora get translated?19:31
lex79Arora is translated in Italian here19:33
ryanakcaRiddell: where's the translation page? https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/arora/19:35
ScottKRiddell: I think it's like Quassel with .qm files so they don't get pulled into the language pack.19:36
smarterRiddell: yes and yes19:42
spstarrbehold, coming to KDE 4.4 :)  http://www.sh0n.net/spstarr/weather.png19:55
spstarri might backport to 4.3 we'll see19:56
ryanakcaspstarr: Ooh, you in Vaughan? Only 3 hours away from here ;)19:58
spstarr!!19:58
spstarryep I do :-)19:58
* ryanakca is in Kingston...20:00
spstarr:) east20:02
* spstarr goes to SuperCentre for food..20:03
spstarr-ENOFOOD20:03
RiddellJontheEchidna: akonadi uploaded20:03
JontheEchidnaRiddell: great20:06
smarterrandom fact I just discovered: KDevelop forces raster by default (for Qt >= 4.5.1)20:11
JontheEchidnaakonadi FTBFS on the buildds, but not in pbuilder. interesting20:23
JontheEchidnait fails making dbgsym packages20:25
Riddellfooey20:37
Sputsmarter: KDevelop without raster was exquisitely slow when I last tried it (the editor lagged to the point where it got unusable), so I think that makes sense21:21
=== rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3

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