[00:04] <lex79> apachelogger: well, no needs any patches to building
[00:26] <Riddell> ryanakca: seriously?  why?
[00:36] <lex79> Riddell: what should I do? keep the debian/patches folder because is a merge but is no longer need, or leave it out ?
[01:00] <Riddell> lex79: keep it if it does no harm
[01:01] <lex79> ok thanks, ktorrent is ready in LP
[01:23] <Riddell> boost is a beast
[01:25] <Riddell> fabo: what's the best place to learn about debhelper 7?
[01:52] <seele> apachelogger: the firefox installer is great!
[01:52] <seele> we should consider doing that for more software
[01:55] <ryanakca> Riddell: iirc, because it's an over-engineered solution to a non-existent problem, it isn't practical for large projects with many contributors and where copyright isn't assigned, etc. I'll try to find the link to the ML thread in my irc logs
[02:01] <ryanakca> Riddell: http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/anti-dep5
[02:36] <alexey> Привет...
[03:45] <spstarr> very nice kdm theme in development :)
[05:21] <spstarr> hmm
[05:21] <spstarr> ok so it's air's theme, kubuntu development looks very good
[07:47] <fabo> Riddell: man dh
[07:47] <fabo> you can look to my packages too
[07:48] <fabo> grep something like override_dh
[10:18] <apachelogger> seele: well, wouldn't that fill-up the menu pretty soon? :)
[10:19] <apachelogger> we could make an interface that assits with installing most popular apps, but that would be nothing more than a simplified kpackagekit I suppose
[10:32] <apachelogger> Riddell, kwwii: bug 345321
[10:39] <Riddell> usplash may not be too important for long
[10:43] <davmor2> apachelogger: it's only cause the colour on the right hand side is so dark that it just blends in with the black background :)
[10:49] <apachelogger> davmor2: and that is bugworthy?
[10:49] <apachelogger> you know, I really wish there was a bug stats "dont-care-leave-me-alone"
[11:00] <davmor2> apachelogger: it's only bug worthy because people will think that it has finished when it has and may think that the system has stalled
[11:03] <apachelogger> davmor2: how slow must a system be to stay long enough in that section where dark blue ~= black
[11:04] <davmor2> apachelogger: it's about a 1/3 of the way along and it's more on the live cd than on an installed system
[11:04] <davmor2> sorry 2/3's
[11:05] <apachelogger> hm
[11:05] <davmor2> then it's there for maybe 10-15 seconds of doing nothing
[11:05] <apachelogger> I am quite sure if you peopel had sensible screens you would see the difference between dark blue and black :P
[11:05] <apachelogger> I certainly never noticed this flaw
[11:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: asac will talk to the trademarks contact about using the logo in our installer
[11:09] <davmor2> I have 2 very capable screens which have excellent white to black ratio's thank you very much indeed :P visually impaired people would have an even harder time of it than my 20-20 vision.   Also just to add at this early a stage for me to be this picky means that the kde team must be doing something right :)
[11:10] <apachelogger> there are loads of such reports :|
[11:11] <apachelogger> as if it was important compared to the fact that upgrading meta packages will not work and that network mangement does not work and that imap looses data every once in a while...
[11:11] <apachelogger> and of course reports like bug 412435
[11:12] <apachelogger> which are nothing more but forwards of a KDE bug with the single use of making the issue more visible and thinking that some kubuntu dood might think it is important enough to fix it right away
[11:12] <apachelogger> of course those are wrong assumptions and so the report rots away
[11:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: I care less about the trademark than about the non-free copyright licence
[11:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: that applies to firefox as well
[11:17] <apachelogger> and to thunderbird
[11:17] <apachelogger> neither of them is in restricted though AFAIK
[11:18] <Riddell> no tech board dispensation, other packages would need the same
[11:19] <apachelogger> oh my
[11:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: so it will live in restricted, does that cause any problems in regards to getting it on the CD?
[11:19] <Riddell> I rejected ubiquity slideshow on the same grounds recently
[11:20] <Riddell> restricted is for drivers only
[11:22] <apachelogger> on to the tech board then
[11:22]  * apachelogger notes that this causes way too much of a headache
[11:24] <Riddell> well you can just ship with the plain globe icon
[11:25] <Riddell> I should say I'm not really in favour of this idea, I'd rather just ship with a decent browser, but nobody else agrees with me that Arora is a decent browser
[11:25] <apachelogger> :)
[11:31] <Sput> Riddell: not before it has some sort of adblock :)
[11:32] <Riddell> I remember, back when I was a lad, we were the first distro to have adblock by default and that was controvertial enough.  I'm pretty sure firefox doesn't ship with adblock by default.
[11:35] <smarter> Riddell: I agree! :) Arora is the way to go.
[12:04] <davmor2> meh kubuntu alternate test failed :( unmet dependencies
[12:08] <Sput> Riddell: I'm not talking about "default". Afaik it's not possible to block ads on arora at all, is it?
[12:09] <Sput> I know that I wouldn't want to surf a web with all the ads, in any case :)
[12:21] <smarter> Sput: adblock support for Arora is currently being worked on
[12:22] <Sput> smarter: ah cool :) it's about the only thing still keeping me from using arora on a regular basis (that, and some issue with too-small fonts on some pages)
[13:23] <seele> apachelogger: well.. a simplified kpackagekit for the most popular apps, and then using kpackagekit to install packages might not be a bad idea.
[13:23] <seele> right now there is no application listing in kpackagekit so installing software by name is pretty intimidating
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> kmenuedit is a burning piece of crap, much alike to KHC in it's suckiness
[13:26] <smarter> seele: I don't know if you've already seen it, but the Gnome PackageKit GUI is  a lot more usable than KPackageKit and provides category lists: http://www.packagekit.org/pk-screenshots.html
[13:27] <seele> smarter: we dont have anyone to work on kpackagekit so it's pretty difficult to improve
[13:27] <seele> kpackagekit upstream considers it complete
[13:27] <seele> other distros were interested in improving it, but the kpackagekit guys didnt seem interested
[13:27] <Riddell> having a simplified kpackagekit UI is something we said we wanted when we first chose it and rgreening was working on it
[13:29] <seele> is he still?
[13:32] <Riddell> seele: not sure, last I heard he was waiting on something from upstream
[13:32] <Riddell> hello dantti
[13:32] <dantti> Riddell: hello
[13:34] <dantti> ScottK: hey
[13:35] <dantti> ScottK: kpk for 0.5 needs only testing now.. although i still think you should not ship it due the problems with apt, if you wanna test it go for it :)
[13:43] <ScottK> Thanks.
[13:46] <ScottK> apachelogger: I did start to look at moving akonadi to mysql 5.1, but it FTBFS on the first try and I didn't get back to it.
[13:50]  * JontheEchidna can take a further look at akonadi
[13:51] <apachelogger> dantti: problems with apt?
[13:52] <dantti> apachelogger: yep, the py apt backend that cannod do a lot of things, like install java
[13:52] <dantti> *cannot
[13:52] <apachelogger> oh missing debconf support I suppose?
[13:53] <dantti> apachelogger: that's just one of the three main problems
[13:54] <apachelogger> oh dear oh dear
[13:54] <apachelogger> dantti: there isn't much of an option at this point, since adept is abondend
[13:55] <dantti> I'm working on a patch to packagekit that will fix one of those (allow removal of packages while installing), so i can continue with aptcc (a cpp backend for apt)
[13:56] <dantti> apachelogger: yep, there isn't the only problem is that users think kpackagekit is the one to blame.. :(
[13:57] <apachelogger> :S
[13:57] <apachelogger> we just have to push enough fancy stuff for 9.10, so they stop noticing :D
[14:15] <Lure> Riddell: re akonadi-resource-googledata: should I upload new package with upstream patch for licence change?
[14:27] <Riddell> Lure: yes please
[14:27] <Lure> Riddell: ok, will try to do this tonight
[14:33] <smarter> apachelogger: isn't that the Microsoft way of doing things? :p
[14:45] <Sput> Riddell: speaking of browsers: what about rekonq? I'm just trying it and it seems to be looking nice
[14:46] <Sput> like arora, but with KDE integration :)
[14:46] <ScottK> Last I heard upstream said it wasn't suitable for packaging yet.
[14:47] <Sput> ah ok
[14:47] <ScottK> At least that was it's state back in May when we were deciding this stuff.
[14:48] <Sput> just noticed that it's using konq's web shortcuts now :)
[14:48] <cbr> google chrome <3
[14:57] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: http://jmthomas.toniox.org/akonadi_1.2.0-2ubuntu1.dsc
[14:58] <JontheEchidna> I suppose I should throw some diffs up there too for the merge
[15:00] <ScottK> Riddell: Did you see DSA 1868-1 (kde4libs vulnerabilities)?
[15:00] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'm on vacation this week.  I'm about to head out to the beach.  I'll look at it this afternoon, perhaps, but if you can find someone else, that might be better.
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> OK
[15:01]  * JontheEchidna looks around
[15:02] <Riddell> ScottK: oh yes thanks for reminding me
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> oh, I missed one or two things with the merge
[15:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: can haz sponsor for akonadi stuff? http://jmthomas.toniox.org/
[15:11] <JontheEchidna> bbiab
[15:20] <ryanakca> Riddell: It looks like the meeting for a new feature tour for ubuntu.com has been put off indefinitely, so we won't by able to just take theirs and retheme. Do you have any requirements for it?
[15:21] <ryanakca> rgreening: Were you still interested in helping out with website stuff?
[15:21] <Riddell> ryanakca: show the users the obvious tasks that users need to do
[15:21] <Riddell> rgreening: seele was asking about the simplified kpackagekit interface you were looking into ages ago
[15:23] <rgreening> ryanakca: I may have some time if there's something small...
[15:23] <ryanakca> rgreening: Depends if you consider helping build a feature tour "small" ;)
[15:24] <rgreening> Riddell: hmm... I believe we actually need to write a seperate app to do this "correctly". THe hacky patch became unappropriate at some point along the way (IMO)
[15:24] <rgreening> ryanakca: maybe we could have a meeting and see what "cool" items we should cover in a feature tour. Then go from there.
[15:25] <Riddell> rgreening: if it could be done in python, ervin has a team of students who might be interested
[15:25] <rgreening> Riddell: that would be awesome.
[15:26] <ryanakca> rgreening: *nod*, content can be decided at a meeting, but I'm guessing we can start on the layout without the content?
[15:26] <rgreening> and yeah, python is the way to go write this (AFAICT)
[15:26] <rgreening> ryanakca: to a small degree, sure.
[15:28] <rgreening> Riddell: does Ubuntu have a package which covers this for them? maybe something we can either port or use as a ui guide...
[15:28]  * rgreening isn't sure if they have this or not either
[15:29] <Riddell> rgreening: which covers what?
[15:30] <rgreening> Riddell: did you zone out :) the Simple App install picker to complement KPackageKit (e.g. not a patch but a seperate external app which can use app-install data and talk to packagekit/policykit)
[15:31] <rgreening> you know, the conversation aboue .. hahaha
[15:31] <Riddell> rgreening: gnome-app-install
[15:31]  * rgreening ducks
[15:31] <Riddell> it doesn't use packagekit though
[15:32] <rgreening> Riddell: ok. Thats what we need, and maybe port to use KDE/Qt and packagekit could be done. Is that package C/C++ or a python script?
[15:33] <Riddell> it's C I think
[15:33] <Riddell> actually looks like python
[15:33] <seele> Riddell: i thought ervin didnt want to do the project because kpk people werent interested
[15:35] <Riddell> seele: but this would be a new app in python that fills a notable gap
[15:35] <rgreening> seele: which is why it should also be a seperate package. the hooks are there (I help write the spec for it) so packagekit with apt-backend should be doable (forgetting the KPK front-end)
[15:36] <rgreening> Riddell: I say go for it. If you have ready, willing and able peps...
[15:36] <rgreening> s/peps/peeps/
[15:37] <Riddell> rgreening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255771/
[15:38] <rgreening> hehe.
[16:45] <ryanakca> Riddell: Also, see http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.devel/browse_thread/thread/f8c8a1a11f1b035e#
[16:46] <Riddell> mm
[17:07] <spstarr> Riddell: good work on karmic :)
[17:07]  * spstarr has it in a VirtualBox VM right now
[17:08] <Riddell> ooh a fan
[17:10] <spstarr> ;) a developing one
[17:15] <spstarr> torn though,  Fedora vs Kubuntu,  bleeding edge vs lesser bleeding  ... I need my r6xx video 3D and fedora (being the developer of radeon bits) is forcing me into a situation at the moment
[17:16] <spstarr> if Buntu had a 'sid' it would be so nice
[17:16] <seele> was kregexpeditor packaged for jaunty? i see an entry for intrepid and older
[17:19] <nixternal> Riddell: you have a ton of fans! I am a Riddell fanboi
[17:19] <spstarr> well, I last used Kubuntu hmm.. goodness.. 2006 or so? much has changed though
[17:20] <nixternal> much has broken you mean :p
[17:21] <spstarr> lol
[17:21] <spstarr> Karmic looks stable so far
[17:21] <nixternal> ScottK: oi, I will have to figure out what to do when a system starts up, and the wifi drivers aren't installed and it is showing 0 devices... :/
[17:22] <spstarr> Strigi Desktop File Indexer is broken, but it's never worked in KDE really
[17:24] <Riddell> seele: it does seem to have disappeared
[17:25] <Riddell> seele: probably not been ported to kde 4 I think
[17:25] <spstarr> you might wanna backport my .desktop file change in 4.3 :)
[17:25] <spstarr> you can dock the weather forecast plasmoid to the systray
[17:26] <spstarr> i thought I got it into 4.3
[17:26] <JontheEchidna> plasmoids-in-systray a 4.4 feature
[17:27] <spstarr> you sure? the networkmanager plasmoid docks in systray :)
[17:27] <spstarr> X-Plasma-NotificationArea=true
[17:27] <JontheEchidna> it's a knotificationitem at the moment
[17:27] <spstarr> ah ok
[17:27] <JontheEchidna> the plasmoid is being rebuilt
[17:34] <ryanakca> Anybody have any experience packaging python plasmoids?
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> It's not a common practice since they're easily distributable through KDE-look
[17:37] <seele> Riddell: doesnt look like it :(
[17:37] <MsMaco> if you misspell StartupNotify in a .desktop, is that the same as setting to False?
[17:37] <MsMaco> i'm wondering why the typo'd version actually...does...work like the false it was intended to be
[17:38]  * seele oggles at maco's /nick
[17:38] <Riddell> seele: I was just telling her off myself :)
[17:39] <seele> let's not get too gender crazy in here, i might have to abandon the channel like a bad linxuchix hangout
[17:40] <MsMaco> *grumble* fine
[17:40] <seele> muhahaha
[17:40] <seele_says_i_hav> awwww
[17:40] <seele_says_i_hav> that was: /nick seele_says_i_have_to_be_plain_maco
[17:42] <seele> maco: you can be whatever you want
[17:43]  * MrMagoo looks for her glasses
[17:43] <spstarr> I want to be a Mr Potato head
[17:43] <spstarr> ;p
[17:47] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: But if we wanted it on a default install?
[17:47] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: (or at least that was the plan when it was first mentioned to me last month)
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> yeah, then that's a bit of a pickle
[17:49] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: *nod* ... We can't use plasmapkg -i since it requires us to have X. Installing it under /usr using the same layout plasmapkg uses for ~/.kde fails. Packaging it like a python module so that you can import it from python appears to fail. Etc, etc, etc.
[17:52] <spstarr> hmm
[17:52] <spstarr> KPackageKit in karmic doesn't seem to pop up?
[17:53] <spstarr> i have to initiate it to see that it has updates available
[17:53] <maco> we have opposite fail!
[17:53] <maco> mine continues to pop up even after i've installed updates
[17:55] <spstarr> haha
[17:55] <spstarr> 24 updates to + 4 blocked
[17:55] <spstarr> today
[18:10] <dantti> maco: but does it still list them on the updater ui?
[19:27] <Riddell> mm, translations are looking good in karmic
[19:31] <Riddell> well, except for Arora
[19:31] <Riddell> smarter: do you use KDE in French?
[19:31] <Riddell> does Arora get translated?
[19:33] <lex79> Arora is translated in Italian here
[19:35] <ryanakca> Riddell: where's the translation page? https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/arora/
[19:36] <ScottK> Riddell: I think it's like Quassel with .qm files so they don't get pulled into the language pack.
[19:42] <smarter> Riddell: yes and yes
[19:55] <spstarr> behold, coming to KDE 4.4 :)  http://www.sh0n.net/spstarr/weather.png
[19:56] <spstarr> i might backport to 4.3 we'll see
[19:58] <ryanakca> spstarr: Ooh, you in Vaughan? Only 3 hours away from here ;)
[19:58] <spstarr> !!
[19:58] <spstarr> yep I do :-)
[20:00]  * ryanakca is in Kingston...
[20:02] <spstarr> :) east
[20:03]  * spstarr goes to SuperCentre for food..
[20:03] <spstarr> -ENOFOOD
[20:03] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: akonadi uploaded
[20:06] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: great
[20:11] <smarter> random fact I just discovered: KDevelop forces raster by default (for Qt >= 4.5.1)
[20:23] <JontheEchidna> akonadi FTBFS on the buildds, but not in pbuilder. interesting
[20:25] <JontheEchidna> it fails making dbgsym packages
[20:37] <Riddell> fooey
[21:21] <Sput> smarter: KDevelop without raster was exquisitely slow when I last tried it (the editor lagged to the point where it got unusable), so I think that makes sense