[00:00] <beuno> kiko, approved
[00:00] <beuno> although it makes me wonder why *you* can't approve it  :)
[00:01] <kiko> beuno, sinzui: https://edge.launchpad.net/notify-osd persistently oopses with the same error I saw yesterday -- sorry I was out, but is this still not fixed?
[00:02] <beuno> kiko, PQM was closed, so the branch didn't go in
[00:02] <beuno> not sure if sinzui managed to get it in now
[00:04] <wgrant> devel r9131 - it landed like 20 hours ago.
[00:04] <beuno> there you go
[00:04] <beuno> the benefits of being open source *and* having wgrant around
[00:05] <kiko> heh
[00:05] <kiko> okay, I gotta split
[00:05] <kiko> catch you all later
[00:06] <rockstar> Oh bugger, looks like I need to port a bugs page...
[00:34] <thumper> beuno: you around for a chat?
[00:37]  * thumper is a very frustrated monkey
[01:00]  * thumper does lunch
[01:48] <cprov> wgrant: that's not true, all xmlrpc commands on the master side are asynchronous
[01:48] <cprov> wgrant: the slave side isn't.
[01:55] <wgrant> cprov: But I've seen it cease to make XML-RPC requests to the other slave while the first one is downloading the chroot.
[01:55] <wgrant> (I verified this morning)
[01:59] <cprov> wgrant: are you using daemon/buildd-manager.tac ?
[01:59] <wgrant> cprov: That's the one.
[02:01] <wgrant> It certainly looks like it should be async.
[02:01] <cprov> wgrant: right, check BuilddManager.scan(), the slave used for dispatching is non-blocking
[02:05] <wgrant> cprov: I'll try again this evening when I have my other buildd back, but I'm pretty sure it ceased to scan while the download was occurring.
[02:05] <wgrant> Which makes no sense, given the code.
[02:06] <cprov> wgrant: maybe you can add more debug to the manager in order to prove your hypothesis
[02:06] <wgrant> cprov: How do I inform twistd that I want to increase the logging level?
[02:07] <wgrant> There's lots of useful debug logging points, but they're not shown.
[02:07] <cprov> wgrant: you don't twistd doesn't accept args, needs code/config change
[02:07] <wgrant> cprov: Ah, OK.
[02:08] <cprov> wgrant: BM._setupLogger()
[02:08] <wgrant> cprov: Yup, just found that.
[02:10] <cprov> wgrant: you probably need more debugs, specially for ensurePresent() at the xmlrpc proxy. The current logging timestamp precision should be enough for spotting blockers.
[02:18] <wgrant> cprov: It is definitely synchronous somehow. I added a time.sleep(30) in the slave's ensurepresent, started a build on a real builder, and marked a non-existent builder as OK. As expected, I can see it calling ensurepresent for each file for the build. 32 or so seconds later, it logs the response.
[02:18] <wgrant> There is no scan in between.
[02:18] <wgrant> And my builder that is uncontactable is still marked OK, when it should have been deactivated 90 seconds ago.
[02:19] <wgrant> Once the build call went through after the 30 second wait for each file, the scanning started again and killed the bogus builder.
[02:19] <wgrant> So it is synchronous, somehow.
[02:20] <cprov> wgrant: the scan cycle is synchronous with and 5 s delay, it won't finish the cycle if the dispatching started haven't finished.
[02:22] <wgrant> cprov: Ohh, I see. That's a bit bad. It is still fairly synchronous!
[02:23] <cprov> wgrant: not really, there is an async burst of dispatching ... and that combined with 60 s timeout on the xmlrpc proxy guarantees that cycles won't take much longer than that.
[02:24] <cprov> wgrant: of course we could be more async, I don't see any harm on that, but it requires more refactoring.
[02:25] <wgrant> cprov: This explains why builds often seem to take ages to finish. I'd been wondering about that.
[02:26] <cprov> wgrant: how so ? *ages*  to be scanned again ?
[02:26] <wgrant> cprov: Right.
[02:27] <wgrant> Often I'll see a logtail that is right near the end of the build.
[02:27] <wgrant> But the build won't complete for a couple of minutes afterwards.
[02:27] <cprov> wgrant: this perception comes mostly from the collecting task
[02:28] <cprov> wgrant: specially when we have to collect and process dozens of jobs, calling process-upload several times.
[02:28] <wgrant> Yep.
[02:28] <wgrant> And starting that isn't exactly quick...
[02:29] <cprov> wgrant: the dispatching cycle itself will always take about 80s (10s resuming, up to 60s dispatching, and some cruft) for 1 or 100 builders
[02:29] <cprov> wgrant: no, initZopeless() takes about 8s (IIRC)
[02:31] <cprov> wgrant: one change that would immediately remove that would be replacing the process-upload calls by directly instantiation of UploadProcessor()
[02:31] <wgrant> cprov: Why wasn't that done in the first place?
[02:31] <cprov> wgrant: the only gotcha with it is that we need to switch db_user
[02:32] <wgrant> cprov: Isn't it more appropriate to grant the builddmanager DB user the required privs?
[02:32] <cprov> wgrant: because the gain on async dispatching was higher
[02:32] <wgrant> Ah.
[02:32] <cprov> wgrant: ehe, not from the isolation PoV
[02:33] <cprov> wgrant: uploading and publishing binaries doesn't necessarily fit in build-dispatching domain.
[02:34] <wgrant> cprov: True.
[02:34] <cprov> wgrant: but if you ask my personal opinion, I'd say that we have too-many-db-users atm ;)
[02:45] <cprov-zzz> good night, guys!
[03:43] <thumper> who changed make TAGS to make the tags file 53Meg? at 15 it was bad enough
[03:44] <thumper> or is it just the result of buildout chagnes?
[04:19] <sidnei> thumper: i suspect it should exclude the paths that contain the dependencies
[06:06] <thumper> arse
[06:06] <thumper> for the second time in as many days my laptop's keyboard stops responding
[06:18] <thumper> Hmm, some bugs say slow-keys
[06:18]  * thumper must check that next time
[06:54] <jtv> jml, did you get word of the Mysterious Unfinished Branch Jobs?
[08:19] <gmb> Hmm. Did the session DB get nuked when I wasn't looking?
[08:26] <adeuring> good morning
[08:28] <stub> gmb: Yup
[08:28] <gmb> stub: Okay. As long as I've not gone mad.
[08:28] <gmb> Okay, madder.
[08:28] <stub> Thats a seperate bug
[08:32] <gmb> Argh! I've just double-filed two bugs. Damn chromium.
[08:32] <gmb> Hitting enter for form auto-completion apparently submits the form, too.
[08:50] <jtv> hi henninge
[08:51] <jtv> hi stub, gmb & all the rest :)
[08:51] <henninge> hi jtv !
[08:52] <gmb> jtv: Goedemorgen.
[08:52] <jtv> gmb: Geweldig, je spreekt Nederlands!
[08:53] <gmb> jtv: Niet erg veel.
[08:53] <jtv> gmb: I seem to be making progress with your language as well: I think in the past week at least 4 Brits had me pinpointed as English with absolute confidence.
[08:53] <jtv> gmb: my girlfriend's learning Dutch... want to set up a weekly practice session on skype?  :)
[08:54] <gmb> jtv: That generally means that you're making all the right mistakes. As BjornT once told me: English doesn't have many rules, but it has a lot of exceptions.
[08:55] <gmb> jtv: It's tempting. I think I'll try to convince someone to let us sprint in Amsterdam first. It's nice to have an aim in mind :)
[08:55] <jtv> gmb: English is the lest prescriptive European language I can think of... matches the legislative culture as well.  You just do whatever everyone else does.  :)
[08:55] <gmb> :)
[08:55] <jtv> Oooh, sprint in Amsterdam...  high time for another one of those
[08:56] <jtv> gmb: the drawback is that more than any other European language, English makes me feel I don't know the meanings of many words.  I merely _associate_ them with things.
[08:56] <gmb> jtv: Oh, that isn't how language is supposed to work? Damn, I've been doing it wrong all this time...
[08:57] <gmb> But yes. that's a problem even for native English speakers.
[08:57]  * jtv finally looks up "acrid"
[08:58] <jtv> Apparently it means "The program 'dict' is currently not installed."  Some examples follow.
[08:59] <gmb> jtv: The trouble is that once you learn the words there's a good chance you'll hold on to their meanings when no-one else does and become something of a sesquipedalian.
[08:59] <jtv> Sharp and harsh, or bitter and not harsh; pungent (but presumably in some particular way).  Basically a copout for "we don't know either, we only ever use it to describe gun smoke"
[08:59] <jtv> dict sesquipedalian
[08:59] <jtv> a dwarf?
[09:00] <gmb> jtv: Also, the smell of powersupply smoke.
[09:00] <jtv> lol
[09:00] <gmb> jtv: Sadly, not a dwarf. Though the idea is interesting. Sesquipedalian == "Person who uses long words." Synonyms: Smartarse.
[09:01] <jtv> ah, from: one apt to the usage of words like sesquipedalian
[09:02] <jtv> Dict said "measuring or containing a foot and a half; as, a sequipedalian pygmy."
[09:02] <gmb> Awesome!
[09:02] <gmb> And, this being English, probably completely accurate.
[09:03] <gmb> Yes, according to wiktionary anyway, "a foot and a half" is it's literal meaning.
[09:04] <jtv> In Dutch, or German, or French etc, when you look up a word, you expect a definition.  Not a series of loose associations, a list of references in last year's TV programs, and an artist's impression.  (Yes Wikipedia, I'm looking at you).
[09:05] <jtv> Now Thai, Thai is the master of loosely-associated words.  Try "translating" some on thai2english.com.  It won't even find all the words' beginnings and endings, let alone conclusive meanings.
[09:05] <gmb> lol.
[09:06] <gmb> That used to be a game on some radio station or other: Translate a song title into Thai, translate it back again, see what comes out.
[09:16] <jtv> gmb: an observation.  Like English, Thai doesn't normally distinguish between orange the fruit and orange the colour. The word for juice also means water, or pretty much anything that's fluid or gel-like (basically anything you could take on a plane before 2002 but not after).  And "100%" basically means "to a significant extent."
[09:16] <jtv> Thus, the Thai for "100% orange juice," strictly read, says no more than "a fluid that is to a significant extent orange in colour."
[09:16] <gmb> Excellent.
[09:21] <mrevell> Hello!
[09:55] <wgrant> gmb: Does PQM still hate me?
[09:59] <gmb> wgrant: It did earlier this morning. You're number 3 in the queue at the moment so we should know within an hour whether you're cursed or not.
[09:59] <wgrant> gmb: It has so far expressed its intense dislike for me twice on this branch?
[10:00] <gmb> wgrant: Well, once was because we were in testfix, the other *looked* like a testfix issue but there's no email for a relevant breakage so I don't know.
[10:00] <gmb> wgrant: You have to remember, though, that PQM hates *me*. You, OTOH, might well have done nothing wrong :)
[10:01] <gmb> (Ask sinzui; it hates him too)
[10:01] <wgrant> Heh.
[10:01] <wgrant> Third time lucky..
[10:02] <gmb> Here's hopping
[10:02] <gmb> Er.
[10:02] <gmb> Hoping.
[10:10] <wgrant> bigjools: Um, so it's not a bug that the pillar shown on the DSP code index is the distro?
[10:11] <wgrant> Oh, but the app tabs link to the source package.
[10:11] <wgrant> That's confusing,.
[10:12] <bigjools> on phone, one sec
[10:12] <thumper> launchpad just passed 200000 branches \o/
[10:13] <wgrant> thumper: Ouch.
[10:13] <wgrant> thumper: Can you say how much disk space?
[10:13] <thumper> wgrant: we'll hit 300k before all the package branches are up
[10:13] <thumper> wgrant: lots
[10:19] <wgrant> Ah, PQM is alive after all.
[10:19] <bigjools> wgrant: yes it's confusing
[10:20] <danilos> mrevell: shall we mark https://launchpad.net/launchpad/2.1 as either 'stable', 'supported' or 'obsolete'?  (I hate how it's showing up among active series on the graph on launchpad.net/launchpad)
[10:20] <bigjools> we talking about having a packaging tab, but that would screw over bugs
[10:20] <wgrant> bigjools: A packaging tab only makes sense for products/projects/people.
[10:20] <bigjools> exactly
[10:21] <bigjools> so if it's a bug on a package ...
[10:21] <wgrant> And has little to do with this strange dual-context thingy.
[10:21] <bigjools> well it has a lot to do with it
[10:21] <mrevell> danilos: I'm not sure what applies in our case. Obsolete I guess because you can't really run 2.1.
[10:21] <danilos> mrevell: yeah, I'd likely agree
[10:23] <mrevell> danilos: done
[10:23] <danilos> mrevell: great, thanks (fwiw, that's what we have on old series like https://launchpad.net/rosetta/1.0)
[10:24] <mrevell> danilos: Cool, I'll keep on top of that then, at least until our PM starts :)
[10:24] <danilos> mrevell: yes, prime minister :)
[10:24] <mrevell> heh
[10:25] <wgrant> PM? New project manager?
[10:26] <bigjools> yes, there a position open
[10:28] <wgrant> Ah.
[10:29] <bigjools> can you say "singing from the same hymn sheet?" and "blue-sky thinking" ?
[10:31] <wgrant> Huh?
[10:33] <bigjools> PM BS bingo
[10:34] <wgrant> Ah, right.
[10:34]  * wgrant isn't quite sure who is what.
[10:35] <stub> The closest I can get is 'drinking from the same toilet'.
[10:35] <bigjools> laying the same cable
[10:36] <mrevell> :)
[10:36] <wgrant> Heh.
[10:37] <gmb> wgrant: So, I suck at reading regexes. Resubmitting again. Should work this time.
[10:41] <wgrant> gmb: Thanks.
[10:51] <deryck> good morning, all.
[10:52] <wgrant> Morning deryck.
[10:53] <bigjools> hi deryck
[11:42] <jtv> jml: did you get word yesterday about the mysterious lingering branch jobs?
[13:04] <wgrant> gmb: I presume it didn't?
[13:04] <wgrant> Or is PQM even slower than I thought?
[13:06] <BjornT> wgrant: pqm is processing a lazr.restful branch, which means that it runs the full test suite
[13:07] <wgrant> BjornT: Ah.
[13:41] <barry> bac: ping
[13:41] <bac> good morning barry
[13:42] <barry> bac: good morning!  i have a question for you regarding private teams
[13:42] <bac> ok
[13:42] <barry> if i'm an admin for a private team, but not an owner, it appears as if i cannot make other members admins
[13:42] <barry> bac: i'm not sure of the exact combination of PMT/private, owner/admin, etc
[13:43] <barry> bac: is this a bug or a feature?
[13:43] <bac> barry: that is true of all teams.  even on public teams only the owner can beknight others
[13:43] <bac> barry: i think it is a (questionable) design decision
[13:43] <barry> bac: i guess when i've done this before i've been the owner too
[13:43] <barry> bac: agreed
[13:44] <bac> yeah, i was surprised when i first discovered that behavior
[13:44] <barry> bac: thanks.  i'm going to file a bug on this, unless you know there's already one open
[13:45] <bac> barry: should be a super easy fix.  i don't know if there is a bug yet.  it's worth a discussion on the list, though, to ensure there is no reason for why it is so.
[13:45] <barry> bac: cool, thanks
[13:56] <gary_poster> intellectronica: I saw you tried to land the lazr.restful thing on pqm last night.  I got a bunch of librarian-related failures on mine that seem verrry unlikely to be caused by my change (a two line patch that casts a token from unicode to str and passes on ec2test).  Did yours succeed?
[13:58] <intellectronica> gary_poster: yeah, my patch landed
[14:00] <gary_poster> intellectronica: huh.  ok, I'll just try again, I guess.  I have a branch I'm working on now to switch lazr.* out of sourcecode/pqm land, but canonical-identity-provider and shipit will be pqm forever atm. :-/  thanks
[14:01] <intellectronica> gary_poster: oh cool, does that mean that we'll converge on a single restful trunk which will be included using buildout?
[14:01] <gary_poster> intellectronica: yes
[14:01] <intellectronica> excellent!
[14:20] <deryck> EdwinGrubbs, ping
[14:20] <EdwinGrubbs> deryck: pong
[14:52] <sinzui> Why wasn't edge update?
[14:54] <danilos> sinzui: hi there, I have a case where object doesn't have canonical_url defined (and it shouldn't), but there are subpages on it
[14:54] <sinzui> ??
[14:54] <danilos> sinzui: that totally breaks with new templates with something like "NoCanonicalUrl: No url for <Translator at 0x64dfb90> because <Translator at 0x64dfb90> broke the chain."
[14:55] <sinzui> danilos: what breaks? The code that makes the branding?
[14:55] <sinzui> yes, I bet that is it
[14:55] <danilos> sinzui: yeah, or perhaps breadcrumbs (I'd suspect breadcrumbs)
[14:56] <danilos> if there are breadcrumbs :)
[14:56] <sinzui> danilos: the breadcrumb code is from 2.0
[14:56] <barry> reviewers (and lurkers) -> #launchpad-meeting in 4m
[14:56] <sinzui> danilos: The branching searches (traverses) to IHasLogo
[14:57] <danilos> sinzui: it might come as a surprise then that this page was never migrated to 2.0 either (I am actually trying to use generic-edit.pt for the form)
[14:57] <sinzui> danilos: Send an email to thumper. He is creating an alternate way to get branding...IRootContext. I think his solution will fix your problem
[14:58] <danilos> sinzui: right, it does fail in IHasLogo, will do that
[15:00] <barry> reviewers (and lurkers) -> #launchpad-meeting
[15:00] <flacoste> Chex: hi there! could you delete the following vcs-import when you have time: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/windmill/trunk ?
[15:01] <flacoste> Chex: nevermind, it seems i have permission to do so
[15:01] <sinzui> danilos: thanks for bring this up. your use case is better justification than the ones I was thinking of
[15:01] <danilos> sinzui: sure, thanks
[15:02] <Chex> flacoste: ok, no problem :)
[15:08] <barry> beuno: do you want to join our reviewer's meeting?
[15:16] <beuno> flacoste, http://morgamic.com/2009/08/18/optimizing-your-js-and-css/
[15:17] <flacoste> beuno: tell me something i don't already know :-)
[15:17] <beuno> flacoste, this is my attempt to keep the CSS minifying on the table, rather than informing!  :)
[15:18] <james_w> did edge rollout this morning?
[15:18] <james_w> something seems to have happened at ~08:44
[15:19] <flacoste> james_w: i think there was an edge server that didn't updated properly
[15:19] <flacoste> james_w: btw, we should be upgrading to HAProxy soon for load balancing, that should really makes thing better for you
[15:19] <flacoste> as it catches when backend server are not available
[15:20] <flacoste> james_w: https://wiki.canonical.com/IncidentReports/2009-08-19-launchpad-edge-fail/
[15:20] <james_w> that might be related
[15:20] <james_w> I'm still seeing issues though
[15:20] <james_w> not described there
[15:21] <flacoste> james_w: what issue?
[15:21] <james_w> hmm, might have *just* gone away
[15:21] <james_w> bug 415943
[15:21] <mup> Bug #415943: branch.lp_save() often give PreconditionFailed <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/415943>
[15:21] <james_w> nope, still there
[15:22] <flacoste> leonardr: could you help out james_w in diagnosing the source of bug 415943?
[15:22] <mup> Bug #415943: branch.lp_save() often give PreconditionFailed <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/415943>
[15:22] <leonardr> flacoste, sure
[15:22] <flacoste> thanks
[15:23] <james_w> ah, a little more insight I think
[15:25] <james_w> so something changed this morning that means lp_save() on a branch will now fail if you didn't change anything
[15:25] <james_w> but before it worked whether you changed it or not
[15:26] <leonardr> james_w: the first step in diagnosis is to set httplib2.debuglevel = 1 before creating the Launchpad object
[15:26] <leonardr> this will give you dumps of the http requests/responses
[15:26] <leonardr> we're especially interested in the http headers ETag, Last-Modified, If-Modified-Since, and If-None-Match
[15:27] <leonardr> since those are the ones that determine whether the server will give you Precondition Failed
[15:28] <james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/255765/
[15:29] <leonardr> you commented on bug 336866. that bug was caused by an interaction between an ObjectModifiedEvent and the unmarshalled field cache
[15:29] <mup> Bug #336866: When adding tag or updating description, lp_save() gives "HTTP Error 412: Precondition Failed" <lazr.restful:Fix Committed by leonardr> <python-launchpadlib (Ubuntu):Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/336866>
[15:29] <leonardr> i backported a fix to the lazr.restful branch used by launchpad, but apparently launchpad didn't pick it up, because people are still having that problem
[15:29] <leonardr> are there any interesting ObjectModifiedEvents triggered when save() is called on a branch object?
[15:30] <james_w> I think my comment on that bug was mistaken
[15:30] <james_w> I think when I was getting this before the errors were legitimate, as scanning updates the last_scanned entry in the branch or something
[15:30] <james_w> and that would happen shortly after pushing, around the time I was setting the status
[15:31] <james_w> I implemented retry support to handle that
[15:31] <james_w> but this morning the retries don't help
[15:31] <james_w> further to the paste above, retrieving the object again gives the same ETag: 7bdbf8234351ddfa1c58adf96ab423eb41ab8f6e
[15:31] <leonardr> thanks, i was just about to ask that
[15:31] <james_w> so something fishy is going on
[15:33] <leonardr> james_w, can you reproduce this in your local launchpad installation?
[15:33] <james_w> I haven't tried
[15:33] <abentley> sinzui: It seems like account creation refuses to create accounts for email addresses used by SSO, etc, but password recovery only works for Launchpad accounts.  Is that possible?  example address: paul.szwajkiewicz@wp.pl
[15:34] <sinzui> salgado: ^
[15:34] <leonardr> james_w: please give it a try, as the only ways to debug it at this point are by backtraces in the code or manual examination of the code
[15:34] <leonardr> on the http level everything looks like it should be working
[15:34] <bigjools> sinzui: where is PillarView tested?
[15:34] <sinzui> abentley: I believe this /was/ true, but salgado fixed it
[15:35] <james_w> leonardr: yeah, that's why I'm asking if edge rolled out today, that would narrow it down
[15:35] <salgado> abentley, password recovery on login.launchpad.net should work for SSO accounts
[15:35] <james_w> I'll try and get launchpad.dev fired up
[15:35] <sinzui> lp/registry/browser/tests/pillar-views.txt
[15:35] <abentley> sinzui: It seems to not be fixed as of r9129
[15:35] <intellectronica> adeuring: gary_poster mentioned something about failures related to the librarian he had trying to land branches
[15:36] <adeuring> intellectronica: thanks!
[15:36] <abentley> sinzui, salgado: Try the example address I gave on edge.
[15:36] <bigjools> sinzui: thanks, grep was not my friend
[15:36] <abentley> sinzui, salgado: paul.szwajkiewicz@wp.pl
[15:36] <gary_poster> adeuring, intellectronica: yes, I don't see the background in history, but I got a *lot* of librarian failures on pqm
[15:36] <salgado> abentley, if that email is of an SSO account, then it can't use edge.launchpad.net
[15:36] <gary_poster> adeuring: I just retried, since intellectronica had success
[15:37] <adeuring> gary_poster: OK, I'll try that
[15:37] <abentley> salgado: Just tested on prod, and it also doesn't work there.
[15:38] <salgado> abentley, prod shouldn't work either
[15:38] <salgado> only login.lp.net should work
[15:38] <abentley> salgado: !?
[15:38] <salgado> abentley, this is not a launchpad account -- it's an SSO one
[15:39] <abentley> salgado: A user tried to create an LP account and was told they couldn't, because the address was already in use.  So they tried to recover their password, and they couldn't, because it wasn't a Launchpad account.
[15:40] <salgado> abentley, as I said earlier, they can reset the password on login.launchpad.net.  once that's done they can use the new password to log into launchpad.net
[15:41] <abentley> salgado: I think that we should make that much easier for users, potentially by letting them recover an SSO password from launchpad.
[15:43] <abentley> salgado: There is nothing to indicate to the user that they need to do this.
[15:45] <salgado> abentley, agreed, but when we prevent the user from registering we say that they can use the SSO credentials to login
[15:45] <salgado> (agreed about making it easier, I mean)
[15:45] <abentley> salgado: But we don't say how to recover the SSO credentials, so that's not really enough.
[15:49] <abentley> salgado: Is the launchpad.net password recovery a subset of the login.launchpad.net password recovery?  If so, I think it would be sensible to always use the login.launchpad.net password recovery.
[15:49] <salgado> it's not
[15:49] <salgado> abentley, ^
[15:50] <abentley> salgado: What are you pointing me to?
[15:50] <salgado> the line above, where I said it's not a subset
[15:53] <abentley> salgado: Okay, in that case it would be great if we could add "If you have forgotten your password, use login.launchpad.net (not this page) to recover it."
[15:53] <rockstar> barry, I think you forgot that we decided I'd attend the AsiaPac reviewer meetings now.
[15:53] <abentley> salgado: To the specific error.
[15:54] <barry> rockstar: right!
[16:01] <salgado> abentley, agreed, can you file a bug about that?
[16:01] <gmb> I'm sick of IRC clients now. Can we please go back to carrier pigeons?
[16:02]  * gmb goes to find a cup of tea
[16:02] <abentley> gmb: Actually, I'm using a Pidgin right now :-)
[16:02] <rockstar> abentley, boo.  :)
[16:02] <gmb> Argh. Didn't want to change my nick. Damn thing...
[16:02] <james_w> leonardr: I can't seem to reproduce with the latest devel
[16:03] <leonardr> aaargh
[16:04] <leonardr> james_w: what about my earlier question about ObjectModifiedEvents?
[16:04] <leonardr> that's almost certianly not the problem because you'd have it reliably
[16:07] <james_w> "<leonardr> are there any interesting ObjectModifiedEvents triggered when save() is called on a branch object?" ?
[16:08] <leonardr> yes. more generally, does anything unusual at all happen when you save a branch, that doesn't happen for other objects?
[16:08] <james_w> I assumed you were asking your fellow LP devs, I don't know the answer, sorry
[16:08] <leonardr> oh, i see
[16:08] <james_w> I've just updated the bug
[16:08] <leonardr> rockstar, maybe you can help?
[16:08] <james_w> lp.me.lp_save() also gives the error
[16:14] <maxb> flacoste: New python-apt available in ~maxb/launchpad for syncing to ~launchpad/ppa (in response to new version in karmic primary)
[16:14] <flacoste> maxb: great, thanks! i'll copy over
[16:15] <flacoste> done
[16:16] <rockstar> leonardr, james_w, we haven't gone out of way to do anything special on save through the API.  What's the actual issue?
[16:16] <leonardr> rockstar: james_w gets a 412 Precondition Failed every time he saves a branch object
[16:16] <leonardr> apparently this just started happening recently
[16:17] <rockstar> Hm, does it say what the precondition is, or give an oops?
[16:17] <leonardr> rockstar: well, the precondition is almost certainly an etag failure
[16:17] <leonardr> meaning the server-side calculated etag doesn't match what he sent
[16:17]  * rockstar hasn't gotten that far in the Rest book yet...
[16:17] <james_w> {'status': '412', 'content-length': '0', 'via': '1.1 wildcard.edge.launchpad.net', 'x-powered-by': 'Zope (www.zope.org), Python (www.python.org)', 'vary': 'Cookie,Authorization,Accept', 'server': 'zope.server.http (HTTP)', 'x-content-type-warning': 'guessed from content', 'date': 'Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:05:22 GMT', 'content-type': 'text/plain'}
[16:17] <leonardr> but when he GETs the object again immediately after the failure, it still has the same etag
[16:18] <rockstar> So the etag is kinda like a hash then?
[16:18] <jtv-night> mrevell: just watched the screencast... Love it!  The only thing missing is that the screen that says "The Next Day" should be while lettering on a scratchy and wobbly black background, bordered in Art Nouveau style, and accompanied by piano music.
[16:18] <jtv-night> white.  White lettering.
[16:18] <mrevell> jtv-night: :-D
[16:19] <mrevell> thanks jtv-night
[16:19] <jtv-night> :)
[16:19] <leonardr> rockstar: yes
[16:19] <leonardr> it's calculated from the current values of all the object's non-read-only fields
[16:19] <rockstar> james_w, do you have a script I can test?
[16:19] <leonardr> rockster: he put a really simple on in the bug
[16:19] <james_w> lp.me.lp_save()
[16:20] <james_w> or yeah, see the bug

[16:20] <mup> Bug #415943: lp_save now gives PreconditionFailed if unchanged <Launchpad Foundations:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/415943>
[16:20] <rockstar> james_w, where's the bug?
[16:20] <leonardr> james_w: you're getting it on lp.me?!?!
[16:20] <james_w> yeah, I said that 10 minutes ago! :-)
[16:21] <leonardr> i must have missed it in the confusion
[16:21] <leonardr> ok, so it's a thoroughly general problem
[16:21] <leonardr> and since it only shows up in production i think it might have something to do with an intermediary
[16:21] <leonardr> such as a cache
[16:21] <leonardr> rockstar: nm, it isn't a problem with branches per se
[16:22] <rockstar> So I'm off the hook then.
[16:22] <rockstar> Yay!
[16:23] <leonardr> james_w: give me a minute to get a branch into review and then i'll pay more attention to this
[16:23] <james_w> thanks
[16:33] <salgado> sinzui, how much time should I spend trying to improve https://devpad.canonical.com/~salgado/poll-shots/poll-30.png?
[16:40] <sinzui> salgado: Did we commit to redesigning that page?
[16:40]  * sinzui looks
[16:41] <salgado> sinzui, I hope not.  where is the list of pages that we committed to redesign?
[16:42] <sinzui> salgado: I would not spend more than 1h cleaning the presentation.
[16:44] <salgado> ok
[17:07] <gary_poster> yo barry.  We didn't talk about transferring the wiki stuff that I saw in the reviewers mtg.  that should be a reviewers mtg action item for next week, and we ought to coordinate.  Maybe coordination should just be as simple as pinging the other person whenever we start doing a bit of it, so we don't bump into each other
[17:08] <leonardr> james_w: i can't duplicate your problem with launchpad.me.lp_save(), either on staging or edge
[17:09] <james_w> neither can I now :-/
[17:10] <leonardr> nor with your original load() code
[17:11] <leonardr> james_w: are you willing to come back to this if/when it recurs?
[17:12] <leonardr> i think the problem may have been some transient problem with the cache
[17:12] <james_w> I'll be back, don't worry
[17:12] <james_w> it's rather unsatisfying though
[17:13] <leonardr> agreed
[17:13] <james_w> the last failure I have is slightly before 17:00
[17:15] <kfogel> danilos: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255805/   :-)
[17:15] <kfogel> Note the huge block under wgrant's name.
[17:16] <danilos> kfogel: yeah, looks great :)
[17:16] <leonardr> james_w: when it happens again we should probably get the losas involved, because a problem with this profile is almost certainly being caused by an intermediary
[17:16] <leonardr> since the http looks fine
[17:17] <james_w> something dropping Etag in the response perhaps?
[17:18] <leonardr> james_w: if something were modifying the ETag on the request before launchpad saw it, launchpad would say "this doesn't match" and give a 412
[17:18] <leonardr> i know that apache plugins for things like content compression munge the etag on the response (in a way that defeats the purpose of etags)
[17:18] <james_w> yeah, that's what I meant
[17:18] <james_w> nothing like what I actually said, granted :-)
[17:19] <leonardr> but i don't know of anything that would modify it on the request
[17:19] <james_w> did anyone do anything 20 minutes ago?
[17:19] <james_w> restart servers, move a cache or anything?
[17:20] <rockstar> sinzui, I just noticed that question-add.pt is not in the zcml but in the view code.  Is there a reason for this?
[17:23] <statik> hi! does launchpad have a trademark policy? i'm making a project that stores bug data from launchpad into couchdb, and I was considering calling it "offpad", but I don't want to have any hassle over the name
[17:23] <statik> short for "offline launchpad"
[17:23] <rockstar> kfogel, ^^
 leonardr: I updated edge - the auto update failed overnight so we had servers on different versions, was just fixing that
[17:24] <leonardr> james_w -^
[17:24] <intellectronica> statik: you should call it lounge-pad
[17:25] <kfogel> statik: Launchpad is trademarked by Canonical.
[17:25] <james_w> thanks leonardr, mthaddon
[17:25] <kfogel> statik: I can ask internally about the "offpad" name if you want; my guess is the legal department would have no choice about enforcing there, but I'm not a lawyer, so can't be sure without asking.
[17:26] <kfogel> statik: shall I?
[17:26] <leonardr> james_w: <mthaddon> leonardr: edge was in an inconsistent state - two app servers on one revno and two app servers on another revno
[17:26] <kfogel> intellectronica: nice :-)
[17:26] <james_w> leonardr: could that have caused it?
[17:26] <leonardr> absolutely
[17:26] <leonardr> the etag incorporates the current revno
[17:26] <james_w> leonardr: if they were calculating etags from different sets of parameters
[17:26] <james_w> oh
[17:26]  * sinzui looks at what rockstar is seeing
[17:26] <james_w> well, there we go then
[17:27] <leonardr> if GETs go to rev N and PATCHes go to rev N-1, you'll see exactly the behavior you describe
[17:27] <rockstar> sinzui, it looks like it's more about using the same view for two templates.
[17:28] <sinzui> rockstar: yes and SearchQuestionsView does the same I think
[17:29] <rockstar> sinzui, yeah.  I just found them when I was checking for templates I forgot to port.
[17:29] <sinzui> rockstar: you really should have been landing these small branches
[17:30] <rockstar> sinzui, well, I've divided them up into three branches.
[17:30] <sinzui> you wont conflict with anyone, so it is not a problem I think
[17:30] <rockstar> (One's in review currently, I'm fixing tests for the 2nd and third one now)
[17:30] <sinzui> rockstar: is you change the workflow rules to allow the [Add comment] to always display, you will be a hero
[17:31] <rockstar> sinzui, I will do that in a separate branch, but I think that's how it should be.
[17:32] <sinzui> rockstar: while the fix to canAddComment() is just a test self.user is not None, I believe test_question_workflow will be angry.
[17:33] <sinzui> well. I can know the answer to that right now
[17:33] <rockstar> sinzui, well, of course the test workflow test would fail, since you're changing the workflow.
[17:34] <rockstar> If it didn't, I would be afraid.
[17:36] <sinzui> rockstar: it does not! The comment is designed to not influence the workflow. I was certain the test verified it the non-event could not happen until after the bug is solved or invalid
[17:37]  * sinzui sees he ran only the unittest
[17:38]  * sinzui boggles and to success
[17:38] <sinzui> rockstar: I'll subscribe you to the bug and the change I made. I think I am doing something wrong because the tests I expected to fail did not
[17:40] <rockstar> sinzui, huh.  Okay, I'll make sure that the workflow test actually tests the workflow then.
[17:40] <statik> kfogel, thanks. I like intellectronicas suggestion of loungepad even better. when you say "would have no choice about enforcing", do you mean that you think the name is too similar, or not similar enough to worry about?
[17:41] <sinzui> rockstar: they do...comments are meant to outside the workflow. I thought there was verification that the comment button does not appear when the question is OPEN, ANSWERED , or NEEDSINFO.
[17:41] <kfogel> statik: well, they'll have to determine that.  What I mean is that trademark law is funny in that if you let the name get diluted too much, you lose the trademark by default.
[17:42] <kfogel> statik: let me ask them; I'll CC you.
[17:42] <statik> kfogel, thanks!
[17:42] <rockstar> sinzui, ah, you and I were thinking about different views.  Now I understand.
[17:44] <rockstar> kfogel, random question: Does that mean "Kleenex" is no longer a trademark, since we use it when we mean "tissue" ?
[17:46] <kfogel> rockstar: Kleenex polices it as best they can, but it's a constant danger.  Try marketing a product using that name and see how fast you get a phone call :-).
[17:46] <kfogel> statik: sent
[17:47] <statik> wikkid
[17:47] <leonardr> flacoste, grant_w, i've marked bug 415943 invalid with an explanation
[17:47] <mup> Bug #415943: lp_save now gives PreconditionFailed if unchanged <Launchpad Foundations:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/415943>
[17:50] <intellectronica> statik: is that a funky misspelling of 'wicked', or the past tense of a novel verb meaning 'to edit a wiki page'?
[17:51] <statik> intellectronica, with me it's always funky misspelling, i don't even know what a tense is
[17:51] <statik> i'm pretty sure i know what verbs are and i don't like them one bit
[17:51] <intellectronica> you seem very tense
[17:52] <statik> it's living in this teepee that does it
[17:52] <statik> i want to trade it in for a yurt
[17:56] <rockstar> statik, I want whatever you're on.
[17:57] <rockstar> (Unless it's the pink pants, then I'd prefer to get my own.)
[18:01] <barry> sinzui: eta for bug 413158 follow up review?
[18:01] <mup> Bug #413158: Convert /people page to UI 3.0 <ui> <Launchpad Registry:In Progress by barry> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/413158>
[18:02] <sinzui> barry: I am sorry. I am still writing emails
[18:02] <barry> sinzui: no worries
[18:03] <intellectronica> rockstar: it's a competition. we're trying to see who can fail the turing most elegantly
[18:03] <intellectronica> the winner gets to be canonical's submission for the next loebner prize
[18:07] <mrevell> see you tomorrow guys
[18:11]  * gmb -> dinner, etc. Back later.
[18:20] <beuno> barry, how's our "projects use launchpad by default" plan going?
[18:22] <beuno> abentley-lunch, I hate the changes done to reviewing in MPs
[18:22] <beuno> can we talk at some point about them?
[18:22] <beuno> I no longer have a "review" button close to the reviewers list
[18:22] <beuno> and now ahve to scroll down to the bottom of all the comments
[18:24] <beuno> please lets not do these changes without some broader agreement
[18:24] <barry> beuno: on hold for 3.1 ui conversions
[18:24] <beuno> barry, roger, thanks
[18:34] <beuno> flacoste, I love you for using google calendar
[18:39] <flacoste> beuno: :-)
[18:41] <salgado> sinzui, beuno, is there any reason why style-3.0.css defines font-weight:bold for <dt>s only when they're inside a portlet?
[18:41] <salgado> .portlet dt {
[18:41] <salgado>     font-weight: bold;
[18:41] <salgado>     }
[18:42] <sinzui> salgado: I did not want to presume
[18:42] <sinzui> salgado: bold might be right for all cases since we expect that by default
[18:42] <salgado> I used a <dt> in a page and wanted it to be bold as well, but it doesn't get that automatically because it's not inside a class="portlet"
[18:42] <sinzui> salgado: the same may also be true for <th>
[18:42] <salgado> indeed
[18:43] <sinzui> salgado: I think you should make the change. There are very few uses of <dt> out side of 3.0 pages, and we can fix them if we discover an issue
[18:44] <salgado> sinzui, cool, I'll do that
[18:44] <beuno> agreed
[19:13] <barry> beuno: so i'm now using a generic action menu for the top level overview pages.  on /people it makes sense to have an action for +requestmerge.  it probably don't make sense to put that on the /projects page, but... does it hurt?  of course it's more work to selectively remove it, but i can do that if you want
[19:15] <barry> beuno: similarly for the admin tasks, which make sense on /people but maybe not on /projects.  otoh, maybe these are useful conveniences anyway, and maybe consistency on the top level collections is more important.  thoughts?
[19:15] <beuno> barry, I don't think we should have people merging on /projects
[19:16] <beuno> so, keep the relevant links on the relevant pages
[19:17] <barry> beuno: right, agreed. actually, it should only be a minor refactor, but i'll do that in the /projects branch instead of the one sinzui is reviewing currently
[19:17] <barry> beuno: thanks
[19:17] <beuno> cool
[19:17]  * barry thanks abentley for looms once again
[19:18] <beuno> intellectronica, how about pasting the number of converted and unconverted templates in the weekly emails?
[19:23] <salgado> beuno, before: https://devpad.canonical.com/~salgado/poll-shots/poll.png
[19:23] <salgado> after: https://devpad.canonical.com/~salgado/poll-shots/poll-30.png
[19:23] <salgado> ui=you? ;)
[19:23]  * beuno looks
[19:24] <beuno> salgado, almost
[19:24] <beuno> it has 2 titles
[19:25] <salgado> where?
[19:25] <beuno> and, I don't understand the "Your current vote" and "Vote now" headings
[19:25] <salgado> wrong screenshots
[19:25] <beuno> salgado, "a public poll that never closes" and "Vote"
[19:25] <salgado> damm
[19:25] <beuno> :)
[19:26] <salgado> https://devpad.canonical.com/~salgado/poll-shots/index.png
[19:26] <salgado> https://devpad.canonical.com/~salgado/poll-shots/index-30.png
[19:26] <salgado> beuno, those (^) are the correct ones
[19:27] <beuno> salgado, MUCH better
[19:27] <beuno> no h2?
[19:27] <beuno> "A public pole.." should be an H2, no?
[19:27] <beuno> also
[19:27] <beuno> cahnge details should be in the actions portlets
[19:27] <beuno> and maybe
[19:28] <beuno> opens and closes
A public poll that has not opened yet</h2>
[19:28] <beuno> should be beneath eachother
[19:28] <beuno> ah
[19:28] <beuno> I meant H1
[19:28] <beuno> h2 is the projects' name
[19:28] <beuno> which is correct
[19:28] <beuno> there's always an H2 and an H1
[19:30] <salgado> beuno, do you really think it's worth moving the 'Change details' to a side portlet even if it's going to be alone there and take a good 20% of real estate?
[19:30] <salgado> the page will never have any side portlets or anything
[19:30] <beuno> salgado, yes
[19:31] <beuno> consistency
[19:31] <salgado> beuno, what should be in the H1?
[19:31] <beuno> and, we don't need that much space on that page
[19:31] <beuno> salgado, the H1 is "A public poll that has not opened yet", which I assume is the polls' name
[19:31] <salgado> right
[19:32] <salgado> so just turn the existing h2 into an h1?
[19:32] <beuno> yeap
[19:34] <beuno> salgado, and, this may be too much design on the conversion
[19:34] <beuno> but
[19:34] <beuno> you could isntead of having an "active" column
[19:34] <beuno> just say "Active" or "Inactive"
[19:34] <beuno> but that's just for the bonus points  :)
[19:36] <salgado> right, right, I'll think about that
[19:36] <salgado> beuno, should the +newoption link be in the side menu as well?
[19:36] <salgado> or just in the main area?
[19:37] <beuno> salgado, no, I think that's the right place to put it
[19:38] <salgado> ok, now I need to find out how to achieve that
[19:38] <abentley> beuno: You reviewed that as Needs Fixing, I replied, you never responded, eventually I merged it.  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/comment-as-review/+merge/7685
[19:39] <beuno> abentley, was the wrong thing to do
[19:40] <abentley> beuno: I thought you were making non-madatory suggestions.
[19:40] <beuno> abentley, it says "needs fixing"
[19:40] <beuno> abentley, please revert
[19:41] <salgado> beuno, that's not easy to achieve. is it a problem if I leave the +newoption link both in the main area and side menu for now?
[19:41] <intellectronica> beuno: that's a good idea. i'll do that in next week's report
[19:41] <abentley> beuno: Needs fixing was intended as the equivalent of BB tweak.
[19:41] <barry> beuno: how would you like to do a quick review of some screenshots?
[19:41] <intellectronica> beuno: a while back you mentioned that we may have licenses to use balsamiq. is that still on? what do i need to do to get one?
[19:42] <beuno> intellectronica, I will forward it to you
[19:42] <thumper> abentley: actually for the equivalent of BB tweak we tend to use Approve with comments
[19:42] <intellectronica> beuno: awesome, thanks
[19:42] <thumper> abentley: need-fixing I consider blocking
[19:42] <beuno> me too
[19:43] <abentley> thumper, beuno: Okay, but "resubmit" is meant to be the blocking one.
[19:43] <thumper> abentley: needs-fixing means that you need to fix it :)
[19:43] <beuno> barry, sure, hit me, I'll put it on the queue
[19:44] <barry> beuno: awesome, there's three, should be self evident...
[19:44] <barry> https://devpad.canonical.com/~barry/projects-anon.png
[19:44] <barry> https://devpad.canonical.com/~barry/projects-search.png
[19:44] <barry> https://devpad.canonical.com/~barry/projects-user.png
[19:44] <barry> beuno: ^^
[19:45] <abentley> thumper: Well, I suggested calling it "tweak" :-)
[19:45] <thumper> anyway...
[19:45] <beuno> abentley, setting aside this issue, which we need to clear up, please revert the cahnge
[19:45] <beuno> change
[19:45] <thumper> abentley: what is the issue
[19:45] <thumper> beuno: what is the issue here
[19:46] <beuno> thumper, the approach os wrong on the UI
[19:46] <beuno> for that MP
[19:46] <beuno> s/os/is
[19:46] <beuno> and
[19:46] <beuno> now, to review something you haven't been requested, you need to scroll down in bewtween commetns and the diff
[19:46] <beuno> *very* hard
[19:47] <beuno> I don't agree with merging in comments and reviews
[19:47] <thumper> surely if you are going to review, you are going to read the comments?#
[19:47] <beuno> they are not the same thing
[19:47] <beuno> thumper, I am not
[19:47] <abentley> beuno: That is why, in my mp-tweakage branch, I move the add comment or review button up.
[19:47] <thumper> beuno: *everyone* else does
[19:47] <beuno> I don't care about the code, I do UI reviews
[19:47] <beuno> and
[19:47] <beuno> I may ahve read them already
[19:47] <beuno> vie email
[19:47] <beuno> or last time I was on that page
[19:47] <beuno> it VERY HARD to find that link
[19:48] <abentley> beuno: I would like to improve the situation, not go back to status quo.
[19:48] <beuno> and, review and commenting are separate things
[19:48] <beuno> abentley, me too
[19:48] <thumper> beuno: no, they are not
[19:48] <beuno> thumper, yes they are
[19:48] <beuno> I've thought about this, discussed this with other people using the system
[19:48] <beuno> it's consistent
[19:48] <abentley> beuno: They are not.  Even you've said you don't know whether it's a comment or review until you're partway through.
[19:49] <beuno> I've discussed with kiko as well
[19:49] <beuno> reviews and comments are not the same
[19:49] <beuno> they are not the same anywhere else
[19:49] <beuno> and
[19:49] <beuno> this branch makes things worst
[19:49] <beuno> please revert it
[19:50] <beuno> commenting is a lightweight well-known operation
[19:50] <beuno> reviewing is not
[19:51] <beuno> cramming them together beacuse they make sense to *you* is the wrong thing to do
[19:51] <beuno> it's why I did not approve the branch
[19:51] <beuno> and the change, besides that issue, made commetning *and* reviewing harder now
[19:51] <abentley> beuno: You abandoned that review.
[19:52] <abentley> beuno: It's not like you disapproved.
[19:52] <beuno> abentley, yes, at "needs fixing". You should follow up, not merge it.
[19:52] <beuno> abentley, I will be more blunt in the future then
[19:52] <thumper> beuno: with due respect, he tried
[19:52] <abentley> beuno: I did follow it up.
[19:53] <beuno> you did not address the concerns
[19:53] <beuno> and landed it
[19:54] <beuno> only following up on one bit, and landing, is not exactly following up
[19:55] <abentley> I followed up on the specific issue that you're complaining about now.
[19:56] <beuno> "I'm glad we've re-introduced reviewing from comments, but I feel that there's no point in removing it from the table. We can have it in both places, leaving the option in the obvious place."
[19:56] <beuno> I mentioned on IRC
[19:56] <beuno> that the complaints where not about that
[19:57] <beuno> "If you don't select a value for "Reviewer says", then it's a comment.  If you select a value, it's a review."
[19:57] <beuno> how are users suppose to guess that?
[19:57] <beuno> every other review I've done, as long as the status is "needs fixing", it needs fixing
[19:59] <abentley> beuno: Well, we could improve the labels.
[19:59] <abentley> beuno: anyhow, I will revert the change.
[20:02] <beuno> barry, I wonder if we want all thos info icons
[20:03] <beuno> barry, also, coloring the "7 bugs reported, 3 have tran.." would rock
[20:03] <abentley> beuno: At the time, you said "I'm glad we've re-introduced reviewing from comments...".  Now you seem to be saying the opposite.
[20:03] <beuno> barry, other than that, it looks nice
[20:04] <beuno> abentley, yes. Not so happy that we loose the (perceived) ability to comment because of it
[20:04] <beuno> commenting and reviews rock
[20:04] <beuno> but why do we have to kill commenting because of it?
[20:05] <abentley> beuno: I don't think we do.
[20:05] <beuno> right, me neither
[20:06] <beuno> or, reviewing from where the reviews are
[20:06] <beuno> so the problem with the branch as that it introduced other orthognal UI changes
[20:07] <abentley> beuno: They are not orthagonal, they are related.
[20:08] <beuno> related, but not needed as part of "add comments to reviews"
[20:08] <beuno> adding comments to reviews:  awesome
[20:09] <beuno> removing the link from the reviews table, and moving the review link to a hard-to-fine place: bad
[20:09] <abentley> This branch was about adding the ability to review from a comment.
[20:09] <beuno> that was what we've been talking about on the MP and on IRC
[20:10] <beuno> right, inver the awesome phrase
[20:10] <beuno> it needs more thought on how to do it
[20:12] <abentley> beuno: I have been trying to put the link in an easy to find place, and the branch is stalled, waiting for your reply, since Aug 4.
[20:13] <beuno> ok, so you can either prod me on IRC to remind me, or land it
[20:13] <beuno> I'm upset because I pointed out, especially on IRC that this was a regression, and you picked the latter
[20:13] <beuno> I'm sorry I stalled on getting back to you
[20:14] <abentley> beuno: You understand that the branch which is currently stalled is not the one I landed?
[20:14] <beuno> abentley, I do not
[20:15] <beuno> the MP I'm looking at is merged
[20:15] <abentley> beuno: The mp-tweakage branch is the one where I move the link right into the review table: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/mp-tweakage/+merge/9475
[20:15] <barry> beuno: yeah, i'm not sure what to do about the info icons.  i think on the whole i like them, otherwise we should also remove the add and edit icons, or it'll look weird
[20:16] <beuno> barry, well, one is a link, and the other is an action
[20:16] <beuno> not sure
[20:17] <barry> beuno: actually, i don't think it will be easy to remove the icons because i'm using "structure view/@@+global-actions" and "structure context/@@+related-pages"
[20:17] <barry> beuno: so all that rendering "just happens"
[20:17] <beuno> barry, it's not a super-popular page
[20:17] <barry> beuno: oh, but maybe i can remove them in the menu code
[20:17] <beuno> so if it's going to take a lot of time, it's fine
[20:17] <barry> beuno: let me mock it up and take a screenshot.  if it takes me more than 90 seconds i'll leave it :)
[20:18] <barry> beuno: as for coloring, i removed the colored numbers from the original template because /people doesn't color its stat numbers.  i'd like for them to be consistent, so... what color would you like them to be?! :)
[20:18] <beuno> abentley, so you removed the link next to the reviewers table, and that branch, among other things, adds it back in a different form?
[20:18] <beuno> barry, see https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+milestone/2.0
[20:19] <abentley> beuno: It moves the existing "add comment or review link".  The difference is that it does not have the greyed-out review link for yourself, which was a cause of confusion and complaint.
[20:19] <beuno> barry, specifically,  0 blueprints  and 27 bugs  targeted
[20:20] <barry> beuno: ah, app colored
[20:20] <barry> beuno: i think i can do that
[20:20] <beuno> barry, cool, other than that, I can smell it landing today
[20:21] <barry> beuno: it's dependent on the big branch sinzui's reviewing, so that has to land first, but yes!
[20:21] <barry> beuno: https://devpad.canonical.com/~barry/projects-noicon.png
[20:22] <beuno> abentley, ok. So, add a link to review/comment back on the reviewers table, and we'll go from there
[20:23] <barry> beuno: as an aside, the column headings on https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+milestone/2.0 is there a policy on the heading text color?  i know bugs are red and code is gray, but what about top level collections?  the one i did for people i just left the default text color
[20:23] <beuno> barry, registry is black
[20:24] <barry> beuno: a musician like me can get behind that
[20:24] <sinzui> Registry is the *new* black
[20:24] <beuno> hehe
[20:25] <barry> :-D
[20:25] <abentley> beuno: Okay.  I'll extract that change from the mp-tweakage branch into a separate branch and post it for review.  Have I understood you correctly?
[20:25] <barry> beuno: so, icons or no icons?
[20:25] <beuno> abentley, yes. And will try and work on a mockup for MPs like I did for the branch index, so we can discuss around something easy to change
[20:26] <beuno> barry, can I see no icons cheaply?
[20:26] <abentley> beuno: Roger wilco.
[20:26] <barry> beuno: https://devpad.canonical.com/~barry/projects-noicon.png
[20:26] <beuno> barry, no icons!
[20:26] <beuno> and
[20:26] <beuno> maybe
[20:26] <beuno> jsut maybe
[20:26] <beuno> drop the word "View"?
[20:27] <barry> beuno: mockup on its way...
[20:30] <barry> beuno: https://devpad.canonical.com/~barry/projects-succinct.png
[20:30] <beuno> barry, what do you think?
[20:30] <barry> beuno: i don't like all the whitespace to the right of the words
[20:31] <barry> beuno: but i think that's hardcoded in the portlet templates
[20:31] <beuno> barry, whitespace is like air
[20:31] <barry> beuno: so i'd probably keep either the icons or the View...
[20:31] <beuno> you need reasonable amounts of it
[20:31] <beuno> barry, I super like this
[20:31] <beuno> :)
[20:31] <barry> beuno: you da man.  we'll go with this then!
[20:31] <beuno> it's easy to scan
[20:32] <barry> beuno: only thing i'd change is s/People/Peeeeeeeeeople/  :)
[20:32] <beuno> barry, I will look the other way if you do  ;)
[20:32] <beuno> brb
[20:32] <beuno> fsck needs me
[20:32] <barry> :-D  thanks beuno
[20:39] <rockstar> abentley, how do I diff against the lower pipe again?
[20:39] <rockstar> Er, s/lower/previous/
[20:39] <abentley> rockstar: bzr diff -r branch::prev
[20:39] <rockstar> Ah, okay.
[20:40] <barry> beuno, sinzui you know what would be helpful?  if style-3.0.css had a list of app colors like it does for font-size percentages
[20:41] <rockstar> barry, fwiw, I agree.  In my personal projects, that's usually the first thing after reset I put in the css file.
[20:41] <sinzui> barry: If only I knew what those colours were
[20:41] <sinzui> barry: I am not convinced there is just one colour for each app either
[20:41] <barry> rockstar: yep!  sinzui dang
[20:42] <sinzui> barry: To start, someone could record the <h2> colours used in style.css as a comment in style-3.0.css
[20:43] <barry> sinzui: i think i will steal them from the milestone page to start with and i'll document them in this branch i'm working on
[20:44] <sinzui> barry: secondly the app is a class of the body so
[20:44] <sinzui> body.bugs h2, body.bugs th {color: #89abcd;}
[20:44] <sinzui> barry: the milestone page only shows two colours
[20:45] <barry> sinzui: it shows blueprints in the blueprint color and bugs in the bugs color
[20:45] <barry> blueprint color: #3594BB
[20:45] <barry> or rgb(53,148,187)
[20:45] <sinzui> barry: yes, I stole them from the h2 declarations in the css
[20:46] <barry> sinzui: perfect.  cargo cult ftw
[20:46] <sinzui> keep the rgb() out of the CSS. I think in hex, not that Windows nonsense.
[20:46] <rockstar> sinzui, https://pastebin.canonical.com/21332/  I didn't change anything here, so I'm not sure why it's failing.
[20:47] <barry> it's already in the old code, but yes agreed
[20:47] <rockstar> sinzui, what I'm wondering is "Does this really matter?"  and "Can I change the test?"
[20:48] <sinzui> rockstar: could this be a merge screw up from changes made to projectgroups that landed last Friday?
[20:48] <rockstar> sinzui, possibly.  Lemme merge from trunk and find out.
[20:49] <sinzui> rockstar: Sorry, you cannot. It is not possibly to ask a question in a project (I think that is wrong). The title and the heading should indicate that the user must choose a project from the form....
[20:49] <sinzui> rockstar: I know
[20:50] <sinzui> rockstar: you added page_title to the view, but the view is used by two cases, IProject, and IQuestionTarget
[20:50] <rockstar> sinzui, okay.  Just as long as there's a real constraint.
[20:51] <sinzui> rockstar: So we have a choice. 'fuhgetaboutit', or add a condition to the property to change the title is IProject.providedBy(self.context)
[20:51] <rockstar> sinzui, well, the pagetitles.py was using view.pagetitle, so I just renamed it to view.page_title.  I didn't change the implementation.
[20:52] <sinzui> rockstar: questions often ignored pagetitles. We hated that file.
[20:52] <rockstar> sinzui, I'll take the former.  I just want to be making mechanical changes here.  I have just a few more tests failing, and there's light at the end of the tunnel.
[20:52] <rockstar> :)
[20:52] <rockstar> sinzui, _I_ hate that file. :)
[20:52] <sinzui> rockstar: many views implement page_heading or something like that that provides alternate titles
[20:52]  * sinzui looks are view
[20:55] <sinzui> rockstar: look at ProjectAddQuestionView.pagetitle
[20:55] <sinzui> rockstar: That method can be renames to page_title to fix the failure
[20:56] <rockstar> sinzui, ah, thanks.
[20:56] <rockstar> sinzui, I have seen a few views in registry that might go better in answers.
[20:56] <rockstar> That view is a good example.
[20:56] <sinzui> rockstar: Sorry. I always though I would be doing answers. I knew I was going to s/def pagetitle//def page_title/
[20:57] <rockstar> sinzui, actually, I quite like answers now that I know the various views.
[20:58] <sinzui> It predates LaunchpadView so it is a bit quirky, but it does teach you a lot about zope formlib
[20:59] <bac>  sinzui: i'm stuck and need some help.  i'm trying to get an "(i) show all announcements" link on the announcements index page and cannot get it to work.
[21:01] <bac> sinzui: i've tried creating a Link( ) but cannot get it to format and render.  was looking at the top_contributors link used in product-index.
[21:06] <sinzui> bac: did you add the link to an ApplicationMenu with the 'overview' facet so that you can do context/menu:overview/show_announcements
[21:07] <sinzui> bac: paste a diff
[21:08] <bac> sinzui: i did try that.  recall i want this to be different from the global-actions.  i'm stuck trying to have that set of links in the portlet and this other link in-line
[21:10] <sinzui> bac: links that are inline are in an ApplicationMenu. I think the menu and the link definition should be the same as product
[21:13] <bac> sinzui: ok, i think i need to basically make an AnnouncementEditApplicationMenu like AnnouncementEditNavigationMenu
[21:13] <sinzui> No
[21:13] <sinzui> That does not sound right
[21:14] <sinzui> bac I think you want
[21:14] <sinzui> class AnnoucementOverviewMenu(ApplicationMenu):
[21:14] <sinzui>     facet = 'overview'
[21:14]  * sinzui now looks a code because he really does not know what he is typing.
[21:15] <sinzui> bac: I think ProductOverviewMenu is what you want to copy. It ieven has the announcements link in it
[21:16] <sinzui> Oh!
[21:16] <sinzui> bac: we can cheat
[21:38] <rockstar> abentley, can I stick a pipe between two pipes?  I have two existing pipes that I'd like to stick a pipe between and hack on.
[21:39] <abentley> rockstar: Absolutely.  bzr add-pipe --before $SECOND or bzr add-pipe --after $FIRST
[21:40] <rockstar> abentley, this plugin is a godsend.
[21:40] <abentley> rockstar: glad you like it.
[21:40] <rockstar> But not a Cthulusend.  He probably wouldn't send us something so nice.  :)
[21:44] <thumper> flacoste: if you can do the call earlier, I may be able to fill and hour :)
[22:07] <flacoste> thumper: ok, i'll let you know as soon as i hung up the phone
[22:20] <thumper> flacoste: don't suppose you are free yet
[22:21]  * rockstar goes on a short walk
[22:30] <flacoste> thumper: i am now
[22:36] <barry> holy crap.  pqm is 9 deep.  yay for week 3!  but wait, we're not rolling out 2.2.8, so i guess people are having fun with ui
[22:40] <wgrant> gmb: I see it landed. Thanks again!
[22:43] <jamone> I'm trying to set up a launchpad server on Ubuntu 9.04, while following the official WIKI's guides I try to use bzr to get rocketfuel-setup and it fails. It appears the WIKI's address to the rocketfuel-setup script is wrong
[22:44] <jamone> I manually browsed the src online and got rocketfuel-setup and it ran, but when it came time for it to download the rest of launchpad it failed also
[22:44] <jamone> it gave this: Making local branch of Launchpad trunk, this may take a while...
[22:44] <jamone> Got a 200 response when asking for multiple ranges, does your server at bazaar.launchpad.net:80 support range requests?
[22:44] <jamone> bzr: ERROR: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/.bzr/repository/packs/1d0252d21c3632af79515b5e8c497c15.pack is redirected to https://launchpad.net
[22:44] <jamone> ERROR: Unable to create local copy of Rocketfuel trunk
[22:46] <wgrant> jamone: I'd just try again. It's possible that the branch changed significantly on the server while you were downloading it.
[22:47] <barry> thumper, jml, abentley let's meet today, in 45m
[22:47] <abentley> barry: I already attended a reviewer meeting today, and I have plans for this evening.
[22:48] <barry> abentley: coolio
[22:49] <abentley> barry: perhaps you meant rockstar?  (I'm the one who plays flute :-P)
[22:49] <jamone> I can try running the rocketfuel-setup script again, but I had the same issue when trying to get the rocketfuel-setup script the way the wiki said, and I tried that a bunch
[22:51] <jamone> Ok I just reran rocketfuel-setup and got this make: *** No rule to make target `install'.  Stop.
[22:51] <jamone> ERROR: Unable to install apache config appropriately
[22:53] <wgrant> spm: Ping?
[22:53] <spm> wgrant: heyo
[22:53] <wgrant> spm: I need a branch made private, apparently.
[22:58] <rockstar> barry, I don't think we'll have jml today.
[23:00] <barry> rockstar: cool
[23:02] <rockstar> thumper, standup?
[23:02] <thumper> rockstar: yes, just finishing with flacoste
[23:32] <barry> rockstar: -> #launchpad-meeting
[23:48] <beuno> thumper, I'm off to the supermarket. If I get back before my gf, maybe we can have a call?
[23:49] <thumper> beuno: when do you think you'll be back?
[23:49] <beuno> thumper, 30-40 minutes
[23:49] <thumper> beuno: ok
[23:50] <beuno> thumper, unless you want to call me on my mobile
[23:50] <thumper> beuno: no
[23:50] <beuno> I'm off, but do so if you'd like, number is in the directory
[23:50] <beuno> aight
[23:53] <thumper> sinzui: how do I create a sprint?
[23:55] <thumper> sinzui: nm
[23:56] <thumper> oh clucking bell!!!