| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| * sinzui kicks about the channel wondering if he is alone | 02:01 | |
| flacoste | hi | 02:02 |
|---|---|---|
| sinzui | I am not alone! | 02:03 |
| flacoste | anybody here for the Q&A session? | 02:03 |
| flacoste | otherwise there seems to be a bad failure in buildbot | 02:03 |
| sinzui | With thumper off, I do not think their are any launchpad-code hackers about at this time | 02:04 |
| flacoste | right | 02:04 |
| flacoste | cancel it? | 02:05 |
| sinzui | But I hope that anyone who is watching launchpad change has a question that I can answer | 02:05 |
| flacoste | postpone? | 02:05 |
| flacoste | wait and see? | 02:05 |
| sinzui | I am up at this time hacking on 3.0. I it is no bother to linger | 02:05 |
| sinzui | michael and jono will not be attending. I have been talking the thumper every day about 3.0 | 02:05 |
| sinzui | So I was hoping to practice answers with a small antipodean crowd | 02:06 |
| * sinzui kicks about the channel wondering if he is alone | 02:09 | |
| flacoste | looks like it | 02:14 |
| wgrant | sinzui: You listed the wrong channel in #launchpad-dev. | 02:15 |
| sinzui | I did where shoule I be | 02:15 |
| * sinzui looks at email | 02:16 | |
| wgrant | I interpreted the ' meeting' in '#launchpad meeting' as being a typo. | 02:16 |
| wgrant | As in, a dupe word. | 02:16 |
| sinzui | I see #launchpad-meeting | 02:17 |
| sinzui | I will answer questions any where | 02:17 |
| sinzui | wgrant: I did file about about the missing query information from the edge and lp.net pages | 02:18 |
| wgrant | sinzui: I saw that; thanks. | 02:18 |
| sinzui | wgrant: I merged two sections and wrongly guarded everything | 02:19 |
| wgrant | where are the breadcrumbs going in UI 3.0? That wiki page still lives on wiki.c.c. | 02:19 |
| wgrant | Between the branding/watermark/location/blah and app tabs? | 02:19 |
| sinzui | We do need to move that. There is nothing secrete and a lot teams have not seen it since it is in a awkward place to go | 02:20 |
| sinzui | The mockup that I have seen place the breadscrumbs under the wrongly named heading-slot | 02:20 |
| wgrant | Which heading is heading-slot? | 02:21 |
| wgrant | There are three that could be incorrectly called that. | 02:21 |
| sinzui | yes. | 02:21 |
| * wgrant checks the template. | 02:21 | |
| sinzui | https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry | 02:21 |
| sinzui | ^ There should be breadcrumbs under the Green <h1>The Launchpad Registry | 02:22 |
| wgrant | Under? That doesn't sound right. Won't that sometimes be 'Edit The Launchpad Registry'? | 02:22 |
| wgrant | Or is that the odd grey heading which appears rarely? | 02:22 |
| sinzui | If you were to view a form page The breadcumbs are in the same place, but the heading above it is demoted to a <h2> | 02:23 |
| sinzui | The form label becomes the <h1> an is under the breadcrumbs | 02:23 |
| wgrant | Ah, that makes sense. | 02:23 |
| sinzui | Think of the three heading as 1) a watermark 2) a context heading and 3) the page title/heading | 02:24 |
| wgrant | sinzui: Should the context and page headings be omitted if either is the same as the watermark? | 02:24 |
| wgrant | 'cause they're not on the new pages, and it looks silly. | 02:24 |
| sinzui | But this is still hard to engineer and review because both parties must know when to pass the page title/heading to the heading slot to prevent duplicate titles | 02:25 |
| sinzui | Your question has not been settled. The answer is no, but I do not think anyone likes that answer | 02:25 |
| sinzui | The case you point out is a pillar, person, or top-level colllection. | 02:26 |
| wgrant | The project edit and index pages, for example, look pretty strange with the differently duplicated headings. | 02:26 |
| sinzui | yes they are | 02:26 |
| wgrant | But I suppose otherwise the descendant objects would have different numbers of headings for their edit forms. | 02:26 |
| sinzui | To combine the watermark heading and the context heading requires some clever work because editable titles cannot be autocreated by the layout | 02:27 |
| sinzui | wgrant: If we solve the editable title issue, I think we would consider dropping the context header | 02:28 |
| wgrant | sinzui: Oh. I thought the watermark would get an inline edit link. But that idea formed in my mind before I realised how shallow that heading was. | 02:29 |
| sinzui | Right | 02:29 |
| sinzui | We will solve this, but I am not certain we will do it for 3.0 | 02:29 |
| sinzui | We need to make the logo editable in the page and we need to communicate it is editable | 02:30 |
| sinzui | We have an idea EdwinGrubbs will start work on in the next two weeks | 02:30 |
| wgrant | Good, good. | 02:31 |
| sinzui | The registry will loose its colur | 02:31 |
| wgrant | Hm? | 02:31 |
| sinzui | Answers will get a colour refinement | 02:31 |
| sinzui | The reason is that blue and green mean links in Launchpad . | 02:32 |
| wgrant | Ah. | 02:32 |
| wgrant | I noticed that the Blueprint and Answers involvement link colours are too close to the background for my liking. | 02:32 |
| sinzui | indeed that bug has not been filed. | 02:33 |
| wgrant | The new project index view also exposes the wrong release for download. | 02:33 |
| sinzui | The set answer contact page is very confusing because it is just links and headings-- blue ans blue on white. | 02:34 |
| sinzui | really? | 02:34 |
| wgrant | Yes. | 02:34 |
| wgrant | It was showing bzr 1.18rc1 until today. | 02:34 |
| sinzui | That comes from a query that was considered proven | 02:34 |
| wgrant | But that's a flaw in the data model :( | 02:34 |
| sinzui | The rdf link is a problem | 02:34 |
| wgrant | I think it needs to die. | 02:35 |
| wgrant | Or go down the bottom | 02:35 |
| wgrant | Or just generally hide. | 02:35 |
| sinzui | I argue that we move into the <project|distro|projectgroup> information portlet since the info is an alternate of the portlet info | 02:36 |
| sinzui | poolie and I discussed dropping RDF. | 02:36 |
| wgrant | It certainly doesn't belong in the Downloads portlet. | 02:36 |
| wgrant | And it causes it to show up on projects where it makes no sense. | 02:37 |
| sinzui | I was strongly inclined to do it since the FOAD and DOAP is useless from my inspection | 02:37 |
| sinzui | I found that there are a minority of users who are using it | 02:37 |
| wgrant | If people know what FOAF and DOAP are, they can probably find an obscure link. | 02:37 |
| sinzui | s/FOAD/FOAF/ | 02:37 |
| wgrant | FOAF was useful once upon a time. | 02:37 |
| wgrant | And I think REVU might still use it. | 02:38 |
| sinzui | My fallback proposal was to add a meta instruction to the page to indicate there is an RDF alternate for the page | 02:38 |
| sinzui | We need help converting blueprints | 02:40 |
| sinzui | It is assigned to the registry team, but my team already has 3 times more templates than other teams | 02:41 |
| wgrant | I considered working on some Blueprint stuff. But, well, I think Blueprint needs to go away and be subsumed into Bugs. | 02:41 |
| sinzui | I am told that that is unlikely | 02:41 |
| wgrant | Damn. | 02:41 |
| sinzui | I think the next best thing is to give them feature parity so that the similarities make the argument more compelling | 02:42 |
| * thumper reads scrollback | 02:42 | |
| sinzui | I am sure blueprints would be more successful if it's statues, events, and email were like bugs | 02:42 |
| wgrant | Blueprint and Bugs each have sets of unique features, all of which would be useful for the other. | 02:43 |
| sinzui | No one has brought up the NavigationalMenus, the bane of every developer's existence | 02:43 |
| wgrant | Are NavigationMenus those grey-turned-black things that lurk at the top of the old pages? | 02:43 |
| sinzui | There is a request to create a small task/todo application. It is assigned to the registry for evaluation | 02:44 |
| sinzui | YES they are | 02:44 |
| sinzui | There are many names for them. | 02:44 |
| wgrant | And they are very confusing and easy to miss. | 02:45 |
| wgrant | It takes ages to work out how to alter a person's OpenPGP keys. | 02:45 |
| sinzui | Looking at the designs we (me) assumed they would go away, a failed 2.0 experiment | 02:45 |
| * thumper never like the navigational menus in the first place | 02:45 | |
| sinzui | mpt did. beuno announced they were going away on the day he took over the UI | 02:46 |
| wgrant | sinzui: To what level should I be filing bugs on new UI bugs? | 02:46 |
| wgrant | eg. the unconditional "padding-bottom: 0.3em" on 3.0 <li>s, which makes the actions portlet too tall. | 02:47 |
| sinzui | We are being pretty details. I have bugs for each portlet I am working on | 02:47 |
| sinzui | Engineers started speaking up on the CSS this week. I think we have all seen enough to know what does not work | 02:48 |
| sinzui | The <h2> elements were updated today I think | 02:48 |
| sinzui | We should have bugs on these issues. | 02:48 |
| sinzui | There was an accidental reuse of of the summary class that makes search results look very large | 02:49 |
| sinzui | wgrant: when I change a detail, I search the bugs to see if I can fix something else at the same time | 02:50 |
| wgrant | The same thing happens on ArchiveActivateView when there are existing PPAs. | 02:50 |
| sinzui | The registry had 50 UI bugs when this started. I think we should try to solve all of them | 02:50 |
| sinzui | was that converted? | 02:51 |
| wgrant | It was. | 02:51 |
| sinzui | damn | 02:51 |
| wgrant | But the view it uses to list the PPAs wasn't. | 02:51 |
| wgrant | Yet. | 02:51 |
| wgrant | It's the same listing view that's used on the person index, so it should be fixed when that goes 3.0. | 02:51 |
| sinzui | I can adjust the CSS rules. I think this also relates to the overlap of object attributes | 02:52 |
| sinzui | title and displayname, summary and description and homepage | 02:52 |
| wgrant | Oh, also, the project summary looks far too fat here. | 02:53 |
| wgrant | Am I the only one who thinks this? | 02:53 |
| sinzui | I am uncertain. | 02:54 |
| sinzui | I think the issue is how much info was put in it | 02:54 |
| wgrant | The description of the summary is lacking, and I'm not sure if any existing projects do it properly. | 02:55 |
| wgrant | Actually, launchpad-project's works very well. | 02:55 |
| sinzui | I agree | 02:55 |
| wgrant | launchpad-registry... not so much. | 02:56 |
| sinzui | I have been meaning to rewrite the registry | 02:56 |
| sinzui | It was given to me. I like Ed' RDF work, but the registry is not really about that | 02:56 |
| wgrant | Maybe it was initially. | 02:57 |
| sinzui | yes there are foaf and doap directories in the tree still | 02:57 |
| wgrant | Huh. I thought those were removed ages ago. | 02:57 |
| sinzui | after 3.0 I think we can rename some directories | 02:57 |
| sinzui | We are stilling find tests and templates in the wrong place. The effort to update everything is making us clean up a lot | 02:58 |
| wgrant | I've seen a lot of stuff in canonical.launchpad that should really be moved out to the app packages. :( | 02:58 |
| sinzui | yep | 02:58 |
| sinzui | That is officially the foundations team, they have had other priorities over the past year | 02:59 |
| sinzui | thumper and I started moving items there because it is frankly easier to find | 02:59 |
| wgrant | Mmm. It has definitely made it rather harder to find, but that's just because everything is spread around horribly. | 03:00 |
| sinzui | everything in canonical/launchpad/webapp should become canoncial/lazr The code is too intermixed to separate it easily | 03:00 |
| sinzui | webapp/tales is getting lot of work. We should try to move that soon. Maybe give up on lazr and move it to lp/app | 03:01 |
| sinzui | There are a lot of old tests or unowned code that needs sorting out in c.l | 03:02 |
| sinzui | I think structural subscriptions should become the registry's domain | 03:03 |
| * sinzui would like to take sprints form blueprints too | 03:03 | |
| wgrant | They should. | 03:03 |
| wgrant | Shouldn't c.l.webapp.tales be cut into lots of pieces and thrown into different apps, rather than all going into lp.app? | 03:03 |
| sinzui | I am adding links to create sprints from the series pages | 03:03 |
| thumper | wgrant: yes it should | 03:04 |
| sinzui | absolutely. | 03:04 |
| thumper | wgrant: I did the first yesterday | 03:04 |
| wgrant | sinzui: I don't think it's a good idea to link to sprints before they're improved. | 03:04 |
| sinzui | There are some ancient tests (canonical/launchapd/doc/menu.txt comes to mind) that can be dismantled because they duplicate other tests | 03:05 |
| sinzui | wgrant: yes, I would commit to fixing them when I move them | 03:05 |
| sinzui | I do not think the need to be dependent on blueprints. There are date and report issue that need fixing | 03:06 |
| wgrant | Why has the bounty tracker not been purged completely like the calendars were years ago? | 03:06 |
| wgrant | Or is it meant to maybe be revived at some point? | 03:07 |
| sinzui | there was some thought about resurrecting it. | 03:07 |
| sinzui | well that thought certainly died before 2.0 | 03:07 |
| sinzui | We are driven to work on business priories. while 20% of our time should be spent one clean up the code and tree, I do not think it is being done my every engineer | 03:08 |
| sinzui | It would have been cleaned up if it was a specific team or person's responsability | 03:09 |
| sinzui | It is going to be removed either by the registry team or the soyuz team because we have bounty templates we are obligated to remove | 03:09 |
| wgrant | Ah. | 03:10 |
| sinzui | I do not have access to the script that generates the progress report | 03:11 |
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk | ||
| sinzui | It shows the templates that need converting | 03:11 |
| wgrant | The one on devpad run by mars? | 03:11 |
| sinzui | yes | 03:12 |
| flacoste | there is a branch for it | 03:12 |
| sinzui | That would be nice | 03:12 |
| sinzui | We can push the static ajax data and the output file to a public location | 03:12 |
| === danilo-afk is now known as danilos | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === matsubara-afk is now known as matsubara | ||
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| === salgado-afk is now known as salgado | ||
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| sinzui | Do I dare start a meeting | 15:00 |
| * beuno cheers | 15:01 | |
| sinzui | Well | 15:01 |
| sinzui | time to start | 15:01 |
| sinzui | #startmeeting | 15:02 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is sinzui. | 15:02 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 15:02 |
| bigjools | me | 15:02 |
| sinzui | Let's try a rollcall just so I know how many people are listening | 15:02 |
| sinzui | ha | 15:03 |
| noodles775 | I'm here to learn from any discussions too! | 15:03 |
| beuno | me | 15:03 |
| deryck | me | 15:03 |
| bac | me | 15:03 |
| sinzui | I seem to have missed jtv in both sessions | 15:04 |
| sinzui | okay. we can start. | 15:04 |
| sinzui | Does anyone have a question about UI 3.0 | 15:05 |
| sinzui | I will ask a question then | 15:05 |
| * bigjools raises hand | 15:06 | |
| sinzui | beuno: The registration information should appear in the header. bug should it appear all the time? I am certain it should appear for an index of a context object, but what about a alternate view of it? | 15:06 |
| sinzui | s/bug/But/ | 15:07 |
| beuno | sinzui, I think only on the overview | 15:07 |
| beuno | it's not that important | 15:07 |
| sinzui | beuno: when I look at the mirror listing for a distro, should I see then the distro's registration info | 15:08 |
| sinzui | beuno: it is for some tests, but only on the index | 15:08 |
| bigjools | this sort of thing breaks down a bit on the packaging pages | 15:08 |
| beuno | so there's your answer | 15:08 |
| beuno | "only on the index" | 15:08 |
| sinzui | That is easier to do. I can provide both automatic rules and a slot to override it | 15:09 |
| * sinzui worries about every page. | 15:09 | |
| sinzui | thanks beuno | 15:09 |
| sinzui | bigjools: you have a question? | 15:09 |
| bigjools | is there a general plan to deal with the type of objects that have no narrative to show under the title? | 15:10 |
| sinzui | I do not think so | 15:10 |
| sinzui | rockstar: has a similar issue with answers, where the narrative should not be separated from the comments, so the details is first | 15:11 |
| bigjools | in a page I was doing mechanical changes to, the distroarchseries index, there's no narrative, and I need to go straight into a two column grid | 15:11 |
| sinzui | That can happen with milestones and releases too | 15:12 |
| sinzui | bigjools: their narrative is optional, so the design must DTRT | 15:12 |
| bigjools | what is DTRT in this case? | 15:12 |
| sinzui | beuno: Have you seen a design that we can use to implement without thinks for objects we are not redesigning? | 15:13 |
| bigjools | yeah, that'd be nice, since I have a few pages that have details portlets that I need to move inline somewhere | 15:13 |
| sinzui | bigjools: I do not know. I think the infrastructure or design rules should be clear enough that I do not need to think | 15:14 |
| sinzui | bigjools: that is exactly the problem that rockstar encountered | 15:14 |
| sinzui | bigjools: is this issue blocking DSP? | 15:14 |
| bigjools | not really, I think we've settled on that now | 15:15 |
| sinzui | because we found a sentence to start the page with? | 15:15 |
| * beuno reads the scrollback | 15:15 | |
| bigjools | sort of, I gave it a "This package has XXX new bugs and XXX open questions" | 15:15 |
| beuno | could I see a screenshot or a page of this? | 15:16 |
| beuno | I'm not sure I fully understand it | 15:16 |
| sinzui | I ponder what this means about these kids of artefacts. Do we consider them self-explanatory? | 15:16 |
| bigjools | have a look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/i386 and tell me how you would redesign it | 15:16 |
| sinzui | bigjools: distroarchseries is the i386 details of karmic? | 15:17 |
| bigjools | beuno: you've already seen that DSP page quite a few times :) | 15:17 |
| bigjools | sinzui: it exists to be able to do binary package searches for that architecture | 15:17 |
| bigjools | but it doubles as an index I guess | 15:18 |
| sinzui | does it really need it's own page then (I know you do not want to invest a lot of time) | 15:18 |
| bigjools | exactly, this was supposed to be a simple mechanical change :) | 15:18 |
| beuno | bigjools, I think that moving the information beneath the search box is TRTTD | 15:18 |
| * sinzui merge milestones and releases to reduce duplication | 15:18 | |
| bigjools | beuno: yeah, I have it to the right at the moment, it doesn't look quite right | 15:19 |
| bigjools | it also has a separate template for +search that is 95% the same as +index, so I merged them | 15:19 |
| beuno | bigjools, it sounds like we need a better answer for moving that type of portlet into the content rather than the description-less issue | 15:20 |
| bigjools | I onlt mentioned the description-less stuff because curtis said it looked weird on the DSP page :) | 15:21 |
| bigjools | but yeah, this is another issue to work out | 15:21 |
| beuno | I don't think the lack of description in itself is a problem | 15:22 |
| bigjools | the question was whether it was good or not to put a two-column portlet arrangement immediately below the title | 15:22 |
| beuno | not in this case | 15:23 |
| sinzui | So do we want to set this as an action item to define a no-think-required way to handle narrativeless pages? | 15:25 |
| beuno | that means more work for me, so I'm not 100% sure of it | 15:25 |
| bigjools | heh | 15:26 |
| beuno | but I will work with someone to figure out a pattern :) | 15:26 |
| sinzui | I think the issue is that a page cannot start with two columns, so we must always have a piece of content that can be used as a top-portlet | 15:26 |
| bigjools | so I think what I did on the DSP was fine | 15:26 |
| bigjools | even w/o the extra text I added | 15:26 |
| bigjools | we could do with some styling to bottom pad the <h1> in the main content though, it butts up too close to the rest of the content | 15:28 |
| sinzui | bigjools: by making the search the first content and it span all main, does this create a second problem? That the arch information is now spanning two columns and it creates unwanted whitespace? | 15:28 |
| beuno | maybe it doesn't need 2 columns? | 15:28 |
| bigjools | sinzui: I've not tried that layout yet, I started with a two column arrangment to see how it looked | 15:28 |
| beuno | bigjools, I think that there's no padding because breadcrumbs are coming, and they will have it | 15:29 |
| bigjools | coolio | 15:29 |
| sinzui | 2 columns is optional, never required | 15:29 |
| bigjools | the other thing is that I know beuno will hassle me for just moving the details portlet inline as it doesn't look that good | 15:29 |
| sinzui | I believe that many listing/collection pages will never use 2 columns | 15:29 |
| beuno | I like being predictable | 15:29 |
| bigjools | which means making it a 2-column <dl> I guess | 15:30 |
| noodles775 | I have a question too - has anyone opened a bug for the watermark heading (h1/h2) issues that we've always known about, but not yet had time to fix? (ie. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search) | 15:30 |
| sinzui | bigjools: I expect the details/info to be in the upper left of every page. | 15:30 |
| bigjools | sinzui: that would displace the search form | 15:30 |
| * sinzui does not want to search the page for that information | 15:30 | |
| sinzui | bigjools: I ti not the first item on any approved design | 15:31 |
| bigjools | I think search forms should always be at the top | 15:31 |
| sinzui | bigjools: it is the second | 15:31 |
| bigjools | for example, the search form on the distro index page mockup was in the wrong place for me | 15:31 |
| sinzui | bigjools: the general rule of pages (on the whole WWW) is first state what the page is about, then provide some details. then provide things that you can do | 15:32 |
| sinzui | bigjools: It has not been approves | 15:32 |
| sinzui | bigjools: It has not been approved | 15:32 |
| sinzui | bigjools: we will discuss that design today. The issue is not just the importance of the field, but the links that relate to it | 15:33 |
| bigjools | ok | 15:34 |
| sinzui | bigjools: if we do not place content is a consistent manner, users will report a bug. | 15:34 |
| bigjools | so beuno said above that on my DAS page the search should come ahead of the details | 15:34 |
| sinzui | bigjools: so if we try to make an exception, we should be prepared to unmake it if users point out the issue | 15:34 |
| beuno | well, because I feel that those aren't really details, as the title really asys it all | 15:35 |
| beuno | says, even | 15:35 |
| sinzui | and I say the detail comes after it like the pillar pages | 15:35 |
| bigjools | indeed | 15:35 |
| bigjools | oh I should also mention that the search results come at the bottom of the page now | 15:36 |
| bigjools | since I removed the ridiculous second +search template that was 95% similar | 15:36 |
| beuno | so that's another reason to place the info beneath the search feild | 15:36 |
| beuno | so you don't move it around on the page when searching | 15:36 |
| bigjools | it won't...? | 15:37 |
| bigjools | you'd just have: | 15:37 |
| bigjools | ______________ SEARCH | 15:37 |
| sinzui | the details is also below the search results | 15:37 |
| bigjools | [info] | 15:37 |
| bigjools | [results] | 15:37 |
| beuno | no, I think the details should go when you search | 15:37 |
| bigjools | argh | 15:37 |
| beuno | :) | 15:37 |
| * sinzui this thinks is the same as when a project puts 8 paragraphs of homepage content, pushing project details below the fold. | 15:38 | |
| bigjools | so much for "no-think" changes :) | 15:38 |
| bigjools | this is why I put the info on the right! | 15:38 |
| beuno | well, there always some thinking, otherwise sinzui would just write a script that did all the work | 15:38 |
| bigjools | lol | 15:39 |
| sinzui | I assume that someone has read the details before searching. Once the user has searched, the results are the most important | 15:40 |
| sinzui | I think search, results, details is the best order in the circumstance | 15:40 |
| bigjools | or in a side portlet... | 15:41 |
| * bigjools hides | 15:41 | |
| * sinzui gets nightvision goggles | 15:41 | |
| noodles775 | lol | 15:41 |
| sinzui | bigjools: are you concerned that the details are below the fold after a user has searched? | 15:42 |
| beuno | details are clutter and distraction in a search results page | 15:42 |
| sinzui | beuno: that is my point | 15:42 |
| bigjools | below the fold is fine with me | 15:42 |
| sinzui | we know the user is only going to look at the results | 15:42 |
| beuno | bigjools, it can't be that hard to only how the details if there's no results | 15:43 |
| bigjools | beuno: yeah easy to fix | 15:43 |
| beuno | good, then it's done! | 15:43 |
| bigjools | it just goes to show there's no such thing as a mechanical change, even on the most trivial of pages | 15:44 |
| bigjools | look at the damn thing... | 15:44 |
| bigjools | it's gone a search form and a details portlet FFS :) | 15:44 |
| sinzui | We have discovered a rule that collections can place alternate links to lists in the side portlets. /people and /project will use this | 15:45 |
| barry | and /projectgroups /distros /sprints | 15:45 |
| sinzui | beuno: Question listing and bug lists also have alternate views of the list. can they be in the side portlets too? | 15:46 |
| barry | to refine: beuno suggested no info icon and a very simple word for the links (e.g. People) | 15:46 |
| beuno | sinzui, I think intellectronica has listed them as such in his mockup, yes | 15:46 |
| sinzui | he did | 15:47 |
| sinzui | I suggest to bac to move them inline for the mirror listing pages. he may want to reconsider | 15:47 |
| * sinzui thinks the two links looked better inline | 15:47 | |
| bac | yeah, they do look good in-line | 15:48 |
| sinzui | beuno: the +global-action view that makes the side portlet links never generates a header because it si always first. | 15:48 |
| sinzui | beuno: since there can be two portlets of links, should we have an alternate layout that add the menu title? | 15:49 |
| barry | sinzui: in the examples i've done, i don't think a menu title would be useful | 15:50 |
| beuno | sinzui, if things are clearly grouped by actions and links | 15:51 |
| beuno | I don't think a heading is needed | 15:51 |
| sinzui | I am happy to not make an new named view | 15:52 |
| sinzui | beuno: is there are rule for the use of "view" and "show" in link text? | 15:53 |
| sinzui | "View" takes you away, "show" is inline/ajax | 15:53 |
| beuno | sinzui, I wouldn't use them unless they're part of a phrase | 15:54 |
| beuno | I think the color of the links should be the ones that tip you off what it's going to do | 15:54 |
| sinzui | The use of view and show see arbitrary | 15:54 |
| beuno | although I agree that "show" should only be used for inline actions | 15:54 |
| sinzui | We prefer "register" over "create" since in may cases, launchpad is modeling what has happen in the real world. | 15:56 |
| sinzui | Are you registering a milestone or creating it? | 15:56 |
| sinzui | for projects this semantic difference many imply placeholder versues hosted projects | 15:57 |
| beuno | true | 15:57 |
| beuno | I think my brain is telling me that I want to create a milestone | 15:58 |
| beuno | but I think you're right that we model reality rather than crate it | 15:58 |
| sinzui | beuno: I bring this up because we are doing a lot of menu reporganisation. a link might uses a different term in two different menus. | 15:58 |
| beuno | sinzui, yes, it's grat that you do | 15:59 |
| * sinzui needs to pick a term and update the old tests | 15:59 | |
| beuno | sinzui, I think I'd use create, as it's clearer for users | 15:59 |
| beuno | and, not use "view" in a link ever, and only "show" if you need to for inline displaying | 16:00 |
| bac | "create" something in LP, "register" something external, like a mirror | 16:00 |
| beuno | "register" sort of feels "sign up"-ish to me | 16:01 |
| sinzui | beuno: but "view" is the action in all th top-level listings? | 16:01 |
| beuno | sinzui, not after I worked on it with barry :) | 16:01 |
| sinzui | We have talked for an hour | 16:03 |
| sinzui | If no one has any further questions, I will close this meeting | 16:03 |
| sinzui | We can always talk on #launchpad-dev | 16:03 |
| noodles775 | sinzui: just the one I asked before... | 16:04 |
| noodles775 | <noodles775> I have a question too - has anyone opened a bug for the watermark heading (h1/h2) issues that we've always known about, but not yet had time to fix? (ie. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search) | 16:04 |
| sinzui | noodles775: I do not know about a bug | 16:04 |
| sinzui | I think we should report one so that someone can fix it | 16:05 |
| noodles775 | sinzui: yep, doing so now. | 16:05 |
| sinzui | I need to report a bug about adjusting the CSS so that .summary is not giant in all cases | 16:05 |
| sinzui | thank you everyone for participating | 16:07 |
| sinzui | #endmeeting | 16:07 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 10:07. | 16:07 |
| deryck | thanks for hosting this sinzui! | 16:07 |
| * deryck lurked but found it useful. | 16:07 | |
| beuno | thanks sinzui | 16:07 |
| bigjools | cheers sinzui | 16:07 |
| noodles775 | Also, beuno, sinzui, can we discuss the question beuno had about https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas | 16:09 |
| noodles775 | I think cprov landed that with your approval sinzui, but beuno is uncertain about the second (default context.title) heading, which is the same as the root-context heading in the watermark. | 16:09 |
| noodles775 | Thanks sinzui ! | 16:10 |
| sinzui | I think cprov followed the rules. I agree it looks wrong | 16:11 |
| noodles775 | sinzui: so, we should in that case fill the heading slot with the <h1>Ubuntu Personal Package Archives</h1> right? | 16:12 |
| sinzui | This is why I stopped working on the heading. The rules seem arbitrary. I cannot explain the rules, so I am not qualified to hack on them | 16:12 |
| sinzui | Only when we are looking the context's index page do we override the heading-slot | 16:13 |
| sinzui | I expect to see a lot of this when the many team views are updated | 16:15 |
| bigjools | yeah it makes no sense on +ppas | 16:15 |
| === Chex_ is now known as Chex | ||
| sinzui | I do not think we should be talking about this There should be a rule in the code and it DTRT | 16:15 |
| sinzui | I do not know how to write the rule. thinking about is was very frustrating | 16:16 |
| noodles775 | yes, that would be ideal - but to create that rule we have to talk about it. Yes, I can imagine it was frustrating. | 16:16 |
| sinzui | I decided I need to work on my team's pages | 16:16 |
| noodles775 | Yep. | 16:16 |
| noodles775 | Maybe an exception to the above rule could be: except when you are on a view of the root-context? (although it seems unnecessarily complex) | 16:17 |
| sinzui | Deep in my heart, I think this design is flawed. I was very sad when I had to add that slot. It was such a F'up in the 1.0 design | 16:17 |
| sinzui | I will not be surprised if 4.0 removes it again | 16:18 |
| noodles775 | Yeah, that's not fun. | 16:18 |
| noodles775 | I'll have a think about it and maybe run something by you on monday. | 16:19 |
| sinzui | noodles775: now that we have a new way if identifying the watermark, maybe we can have the context-slot never render if the context is also IPrimaryContext | 16:19 |
| noodles775 | sinzui: but, just in case you know it yourself, everyone thinks you've done an amazing job coordinating this effort! | 16:20 |
| noodles775 | sinzui: yeah, that's a great idea! (As there's no need for breadcrumbs - is that right?) | 16:20 |
| sinzui | my self-esteem is directly proportional to the number of branches I land | 16:20 |
| sinzui | well | 16:20 |
| noodles775 | heh... you sound like cprov ;) | 16:20 |
| sinzui | I *think* that is still the rul | 16:21 |
| sinzui | e | 16:21 |
| * sinzui finds beuno to ask | 16:21 | |
| === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-lunch | ||
| === gary_poster is now known as gary-lunch | ||
| === matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara | ||
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| === salgado is now known as salgado-brb | ||
| === salgado-brb is now known as salgado | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| === matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk | ||
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