[00:00] binarymutant, you mean 9.8? [00:00] bjsnider, yes [00:01] yep, only 2.6.29 [00:01] ah :.( [00:01] i had to use driveparm with those mfm drive, cause the bios didnt supported it [00:01] bjsnider, thanks for the info though [00:01] reference: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzQ2Mw [00:02] hmm, fglrx 9.8 hard-locks on suspend, for me. [00:12] DanaG, how can you be using it? [00:13] Just had to alter the call to find_task_by_vpid. [00:13] https://launchpad.net/~dinxter/+archive/ppa [00:15] well now I'm confused [00:16] is that a beta or something? [00:17] wait... [00:17] the PPA has 9.7. [00:18] 9.8 fixes compilation on 2.6.29 and 2.6.30, but not 2.6.31. [00:18] That takes a separate patch. [00:18] which patch? [00:20] http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=https%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2Fbugs%2F394985&ei=KdqNSvXFK4jasQPSjfGECw&usg=AFQjCNF8Q3qIX84RSJUhN8ATtBZxcuWjZQ&sig2=ZqKK124Xl16hdJsITs0uOA [00:20] anyone have an MSI wind or Medion akoya? [00:20] the find_task_by_vpid thingy. [00:20] awesome url [00:20] http://lists.mandriva.com/kernel-discuss/2009-07/msg00015.php [00:20] Thaaanks, google! [00:21] oh yeah, I wish Ubuntu would export that symbol. === muellisoft is now known as Muelli [00:24] my sound is borked [00:24] maybe the irq problem is in the bios [00:25] maybe if i change "plug and play aware OS" to "Yes", it will assign one IRQ to each device [00:53] i still ask myself why soundcard doesnt have a FIFO buffer [01:10] do you know if there are any plans to build drivers for older nVidia cards for kernel.31? Is this even the right place to ask? [01:10] ive lost all my sound in karmic, anyone know whats up with that? [01:11] the only application that gets audio out my speakers is interestingly the npviewer flash player, but its garbled beyond recognition [01:13] as in npviewer.bin the firefox thing [01:23] unable to mount EXT3_External. [01:23] Not authorized. [01:24] I get that on connecting my external hard drive. [01:29] grr, firefox asks me for my master password three times at once. [01:30] http://lists.mandriva.com/kernel-discuss/2009-07/msg00018.php [01:50] DanaG, which FF version ? [01:50] 3.5.2, I think it is. [01:51] I do have extensions that prompt for master password... but it's silly that it allows the same prompt, multiple times, simultaneously. [01:51] ok, i don't use that extension [01:52] that's not "that extension". [01:53] Master password is a Firefox feature. [01:53] any extension that stores a password from some service, can encrypt the password with the Master Password. [01:55] yes , I'm aware , but I'm usually too lazy to use those features :) [01:55] I'm using chromium atm , since FF stsrted to become slow [01:57] TV time with wifey ...BBL [01:57] grr, Deluge always forgets the queue order on downloads. [01:57] "always" meaning "each time it starts". [01:57] Just wondering, everyone here using Karmic, do you feel that using UUID's as the mount point is an intended behaviour? [01:58] hmm, it only does that for non-labeled volumes. [01:58] yes [01:58] It used to be just disk, disk-1, disk-2, and such. [01:59] as most disks go unlabeled, do you feel this is correct behavior, a UUID can have many charachters in it (somerimes too many to remember if you don't have autocomplete) [01:59] disk, disk-1, disk-2 is the intended behavior if you ask me [01:59] should be by size instead? [02:00] /media/disk-30G [02:00] and such. [02:02] then you could potentially have two with the same size [02:03] Then they could do the 30G-1 thing. [02:03] Or... just label the disks. =þ [02:08] why is using UUIDs when labels don't exist non-desired behavior? that makes no sense [02:12] non-desired , there's another new word , it used to be undesired ...picky picky :) [02:13] grr, how do you get a backtrace when Nautilus crashes? [02:13] It detaches from the controlling terminal... grr! [02:13] oh, gdb. [02:14] Program exited normally. [02:14] Apparently Nautilus is not actually /usr/bin/nautilus. [02:15] DanaG, dmesg | tail doesn't work ? [02:15] for what... Nautilus? no, it's not segfaulting. [02:18] func=0x54f6a0 "nautilus_window_report_load_underway", [02:18] message=0x6662bf0 "assertion failed: (slot != NULL)") [02:51] can i get an opinion on this synaptic enhancement? https://bugs.launchpad.net/synaptic/+bug/416267 [02:51] https://bugs.launchpad.net/synaptic/+bug/416267 [02:51] grr [02:51] the bot isn't working [02:53] hey everyone for some reason I cannot connect to my brothers machine unless he pings me or I do a arp -s. As far as I know I do not have any firewalls or anything enabled and I ran one of these networking scripts I found on the internet and it said I had 2 default routes but I am not really sure what could be causing the problem. Are there any networking experts that could help shed some light on whats happening? [03:17] Does anyone know if drivers for older nvidia cards are going to be updated to the .31 kernel [03:20] You'd have to ask nvidia that one. [03:20] ok thanks [03:23] hi guys, I'm having troubles with 9.10 - my sound isn't working [03:25] lspci: 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03) [03:39] argh, if I rotate or flip a pic in image viewer, and then quit, it doesn't save changes... yet, if I do the same thing but go to next pic instead, it DOES save changes. Without asking permission! === ryanakca is now known as Guest76526 [04:10] Hah, Gnome seems to think 1280x768 is 16:10. It's not. 1280x800 is. [04:21] DanaG: just out of curiosity do you file bug reports for these issues you find or do you just tell people in the irc channel ? [04:21] hmm, usually it depends on how much it bothers me. [04:23] fair enough [04:47] I have a question about the differences between lpia and UNR [04:48] Anyone tried both on an atom? [05:51] new firefox behavior in 9.10, dragging a tab down into the body of the page and releasing results in the tab being promoted to a new window. how do I turn that off? [05:54] akio, I've only tried UNR on atom....was so sattisfied that i havent tried anything else [05:55] sparr, no idea, but about:config would be a good place to start looking. [05:56] tried [05:56] every option with "tab" in the name, nada [05:59] my xorg just crashed [05:59] anyone know how long daily build has been making isos with this glitch they are aware of being too big to fit on a cd? [05:59] hmm does k3b error on update? [06:01] im gonna have to reinstall to fix all the decay [06:01] dotblank, error on what? [06:02] dotblank, starts here [06:03] E: /var/cache/apt/archives/kdebase-workspace-bin_4%3a4.3.0-0ubuntu12_amd64.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/kde4/apps/kcmsolidactions/solid-action-template.desktop', which is also in package kdebase-workspace-data [06:04] says k3b depends on that so it wont install k3b [06:06] no clue sorry :/ I don't even have that file it's trying to overwrite [06:06] remove it, then upgrade it :) [06:08] what does it mean when a software keeps realeasing version but they are always less than 1....ie 0.9.6.8 [06:08] ooops meant for offtopic [06:08] the software is not considered stable [06:09] FYI [06:09] depends on the versioning scheme, but more than likely beta [06:09] k makes sense thanks [06:10] grrrr! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/209520 [06:10] Launchpad bug 209520 in samba "unclear error when lanman authentication is refused on the server" [High,Fix released] [06:12] grr, it's not fixed! [06:12] I'm trying to connect to localhost... and it's refusing authentication. [06:30] grr, stupid Deluge. Forgets the order I've prioritized the torrents in. [06:38] ugh, flat volumes. I move an app from usb sound card to onboard, and it goes down to 5% volume. [06:38] Then I move it back.... and it stays at 5%. [06:38] But 5% of what? [06:38] With flat volumes.... I really don't know anymore. [06:38] * DanaG disables flat volumes. [06:53] DanaG: how to properly disable flatvolumes? [07:10] hmm, are we using upstart for real now? [07:11] haven't upgraded my system in a long time and it wants to remove upstart-compat-sysv [07:16] oh, I see, they just undid the package split from before [07:30] Amaranth: regarding Bug #91786 , do you have the upstream bug for that? [07:30] Launchpad bug 91786 in compiz "Compiz's Panel shadows show on top of other windows" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91786 [07:30] mac_v: it was an IRC discussion [07:30] oh... [07:31] most things involving compiz are [07:31] at least if you want someone to actually pay attention [07:31] ;) [07:35] mac_v: http://bugs.opencompositing.org/show_bug.cgi?id=900 seems to be the best bug to point to [07:35] bugs.opencompositing.org bug 900 in Decorators "Shadow on panel shoould be drawn below the window borders" [Normal,New] [07:35] mac_v: but of course no discussion [07:36] mac_v: metacity basically does the hack I described as you can see in the linked diff [07:37] Amaranth: oh... is there any way at all to fix this properly? [07:37] mac_v: not without breaking a bunch of other stuff [07:37] mac_v: The hack is really the only way [07:37] aw! [07:37] It's only a hack because the compiz plugin system doesn't let you do such things normally [07:38] Amaranth: could compiz-Ubuntu only have the hack? without upstream or is it too much work? [07:39] mac_v: I suspect it'll be a simple patch to carry in Ubuntu if upstream cannot be convinced and it looks like compiz++ will allow the same technique to be used, basically [07:39] mac_v: I don't suspect the decoration plugin will ever get too many changes upstream so not a lot of churn to keep updated with [07:40] mac_v: why do you think I'm getting my karmic install up-to-date? :) [07:40] kind of sad after so much effort was put into dropping ubuntu patches from compiz though [07:41] Amaranth: thats nice ;) could you link a branch with the hack? so that it could be decided? [07:41] oops not nice about the drop ;P [07:41] mac_v: I don't even have any code started [07:41] mac_v: I have 1500 packages installed and about 750 need updated, this is going to take some time :P [07:41] Amaranth: surely not immediately , but in due course [07:42] before Karmic :) [07:42] when is feature freeze? is this a feature? ;) [07:42] !schedule [07:42] A schedule of Karmic Koala (9.10) release milestones can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule [07:42] mac_v: dang, was hoping for the lazy answer [07:43] Amaranth: i didnt know too , had to check ;p [07:43] ok, I have until the 10th [07:43] Amaranth: i dont think this has anything to do with feature freeze [07:43] 10th is user interface freeze [07:43] oh , ok [07:43] yeah [07:44] hmm, now to decide to keep my currently 32 hour stretch going and work on this or sleep and do it in the morning :P [07:45] ;) 32 hrs ! o.0 [07:45] well I did have an hour nap in there somewhere [07:46] then 32! doesnt count :p [07:46] oh well ... thanx for looking into this :) [07:58] Amaranth: shall i assign the bug to you as a reminder for later ? [07:58] mac_v: sure [07:58] :) [08:04] hi [08:05] have any one [08:05] ? [08:09] !anyone | ubuntor1470 [08:09] ubuntor1470: A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? [08:10] sorry [08:10] for my english [08:45] Herro everyone I ruv karmic kaorara [11:05] What will Alpha 5 bring new, what Alpha 4 doesn't has? [11:06] Tumie: less bugs? :D [11:06] TheInfinity: i tested Alpha 4 for a couple of minutes, so didn't got any bugs,, just wanted to know what was new :p [11:07] i'm blogging about it (in dutch), and i also want to make a post about Alpha 5 :p [11:07] Tumie: you do know what bugs are right? [11:08] scizzo: i know what bugs are,, :p [11:08] but i want features xD [11:08] Tumie: so saying "didn't get any bugs" is kind of...well its actually something weird to say [11:08] 'didn't find any bugs',, is that better? [11:09] i'm not very good @ english :p [11:09] Tumie: there will always be bugs [11:09] Tumie: its rather unavoidable [11:09] but,, does alpha 5 get new features (wich alpha 4 didn't had) ? [11:11] Anyone know where I can find specs on xsplash theming? [11:12] I can't pin point anything that would change from alpha 4 to alpha 5 more then bug fixes.....but I am not a developer or part of ubuntu team so they would probably have more insight..... [11:12] ah. nm. [11:39] how am i to use a window manager in karmic? I have not option to select it while bootup [11:42] The_Warlock: sessions should be available in gdm [11:44] scizzo-: how do change those settings? [11:44] The_Warlock: change what settings? [11:45] the sessions...i dont see sessioms currently [11:45] The_Warlock: what is it exactly you want to do [11:45] sessions [11:46] i installed awesome window manager...when i restart X i dont see it any where to choose the window manager from [11:46] right at the bottom of the screen [11:46] The_Warlock: its in the login screen [11:46] The_Warlock: if it is installed correctly.... [11:46] scizzo-: ok checking..... [11:57] it works thanks.the only thing that doesnt work is the .Xdefaults [11:57] scizzo-: tnx === Guest76526 is now known as ryanakca [13:07] hiyas folks [13:11] * BluesKaj wonders where the printer settings are in jaunty and karmic [13:12] crap, I'm pissed off. I've had two power outages, and got 0 bytes from my kdenlive project, twice. EXT4, o bytes files, AGAIN. Bug #317781 [13:12] Launchpad bug 317781 in linux "Ext4 data loss" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317781 [13:16] isnt this a known behaviour of ext4/xfs ? [13:17] it was in jaunty, but: status: Fix Committed → Fix Released [13:21] hi all [13:22] hello fellow testers :) [13:22] * shadeslayer notices the 170 MB in upgrades [13:29] looking for printer settings ..where did the devs hide them [13:29] BluesKaj: theyre pretty good at these things :P [13:29] or is it a hidden kernel module now as well [13:31] BluesKaj: System->Admin->Printing should have a settings menu. It does here atleast [13:31] leave it to us, "we'll take care of it for you" ..i don't care for that attitude, leaves no options [13:32] kde , gnomefreak , not in system settings anymore [13:32] BluesKaj: i would say KDE guys hide it from menu maybe? [13:32] BluesKaj: have you checked in the system settings page? [13:33] BluesKaj: also alt+F2 > printers? [13:33] I just updated openOffice, and tested it, it is extremely fast. I think I have a problem I should report a bug ! [13:33] nope [13:34] aboSamoor: 3.1.1rc? Do the menus show correctly? [13:36] jonathonf, build 9417, no problem with menus. It is really fast launching the writer is faster than gedit !!! [13:36] btw,is it possible to package software using a svn checkout? [13:39] shadeslayer: yes we do it all the time for alot of packages [13:40] aboSamoor: do you have any localisations installed for ooo? i have no graphical menus and it crashes when i go to tools, options [13:41] gnomefreak: cool,im in kubuntu-devel... ;) [13:41] shadeslayer: a checkout is just a source base - no different than a tarball [13:44] jonathonf, these are the installed packages http://pastebin.com/f36db95a8, I tried the tools->options-> all the tabs and it did not crash [13:44] hmm [13:44] i may need to file a bug [13:45] jonathonf, is ooo fast or it is as before ? [13:46] i haven't used it much since upgrading [13:46] but it definitely seems more rapid [13:48] how do i send a file with empathy [13:48] geez this messenger takes a while to get used to [13:53] hum, i installed openoffice.org-style-galaxy, then i had menus, then i could get into options and change the icons style to human. now no more crashes. weird. [13:55] anyone use empathy? can you send files, by option is greyed out for some reason [14:13] tux_: mine seems to work [14:14] i was going to say the same thing but he's gone [14:14] but then, i'm also running empathy from the PPA [14:15] jonathonf: empathy in jaunty has same issue [14:15] send file is grey [14:17] jonathonf: I am not sure if it is because my contact is not online causing the option to be greyd out or if it just doesnt work at the moment. if you would like to test with me you can add [14:18] you can try and send one to yourself ;) [14:18] didnt think of that [14:19] nope still no go [14:20] is the option there? [14:20] it won't let you actually send the file [14:22] the option is grey [14:23] wont let me select it at all [14:24] have you tried the version in the empathy PPA? [14:24] for jaunty? no [14:25] https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa [14:26] i'm running the version in karmic and it's fine... [14:35] jonathonf: just installed 2.27.5 and all options are grey ( voice,video,send file...) [14:37] frustrating indeed. [15:22] anyone else seeing php as a child process of apache2 segfault randomly? [15:23] hi to all [15:24] Is it safe to do upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic today? Is every update you had today ok (no errors)? :) [15:25] Milos_SD: I am having two problems, one minor UI issue in firefox, one major crashing issue in apache2 and php [15:25] Milos_SD: thats not possible to answer since people do use all the same apps. as for safe no its not safe until final release [15:26] sparr: did you file a bug on firefox issue? [15:26] gnomefreak: it's not a bug, so no. [15:26] it's a shitty feature [15:26] sparr: what is the issue? [15:26] dragging a tab downwards at all results in the tab being promoted to a new window [15:27] sparr, that is what happend in jaunty too :) [15:27] not for me [15:27] but anyway, minor issue [15:27] im probably going to have to manually downgrade apache, though [15:28] btw, when I asked is all updates ok, I thought on system packages, not on apps.... like Xorg, GDM, gnome, python (it had a lot of issues in Jaunty), etc .. [15:28] sparr: there's an extension that works around that bug [15:28] Milos_SD: do you consider apache to be a system package or an app? [15:28] i'll find it again [15:28] jonathonf: i know, ive got it [15:28] Milos_SD: Xorg would depend on your hardware [15:28] ah ok [15:29] sparr, well, it depends, not everyone has it (I have it, but don't use it) [15:29] sparr: is this simular to what you are seeing? https://launchpad.net/bugs/413950 [15:29] Launchpad bug 413950 in firefox-3.5 "Incorrect cursor positioning in Firefox." [Undecided,Confirmed] [15:29] gnomefreak, I have Nvidia 7600gt [15:29] sparr: its all related to the cursor positioning i believe [15:30] that is plausible [15:30] Milos_SD: nvidia 180 driver works for me but that doesnt mean anything. and right now nvidia-common is being held back so i would wait. dist-upgrade however you do it will upgrade it and it will cause breakage [15:30] sparr: could you comment you problem on the bug too [15:31] s/you/your [15:31] gnomefreak, I use 190.18, and I alweys install it manualy, from nvidia .run package (I have custom kernel), so I can purge nvidia-common and have no problems with it (I think) [15:31] yes, and then I am done with it [15:31] like I said, minor issue [15:32] my web server crashing at random is slightly more significant to me [15:32] Milos_SD: some people are/were having issues with the 190 drivers but if you want to know open bugs just look on launchpad. using custom kernel may break upgrade [15:33] i have 9600gt and 190.18 and am having no problems at the moment [15:34] *from repo/ppa [15:34] gnomefreak, it will not break it, I had custom kernel when I upgraded to Jaunty alpha 5 too... I aksed this because I read on forums that there ware some problems with new GDM... are they resolved? [15:37] Milos_SD: I have had no problems with GDM [15:38] Milos_SD: "it wont break" is not safe to say since its not the same kernel (all depends on what changed) however if you want to upgrade to karmic go ahead but as for "safe" no its not unless you know how to fix broken things [15:39] gnomefreak, I have an older Gforce 4 card on my laptop, do you think that when karmic is released I will be able to upgrade from jaunty? [15:39] roscoe: what drivers? [15:39] roscoe: there were issues with the 173 drivers in our repos [15:39] should be able to use the 173 series for Geforce 4s [15:39] not sure I am fairly new at this [15:40] there's a prerelease which should support the newer kernels [15:40] 173 was demoted and i had major issues as have alot of others [15:40] gnomefreak, I know it is not complitly safe, I did upgrades in alpha stage 2 times (with hardy and with jaunty), but what I was asking is that, is there any package right now that will not update (is there some partial update right now on karmic)? :) [15:40] http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2037374 [15:40] I see full updates myself. [15:41] Milos_SD: again cant answer that since not everyone uses the same packages. as for major ones it should be fine [15:41] jonathonf: we havent updated to it yet [15:42] right [15:42] gnomefreak, thanks, that is what I wanted to hear... I can fix some apps, but I can't fix it if it some major system package that will render my system unbootable :) [15:42] i saw someone on the forum had patched it and made it available in their own ppa [15:43] Milos_SD: if any major changes to your kernel or to upstream kernel it is possible that it will break but all depends on changes made. [15:43] yay i am caught up for the week :) [15:44] and one more question... if I do an upgrade, will grub be updated to grub2 too, or I have to do grub-install for that? :) [15:45] the grub2 install step was manual for me at least. [15:45] They have been talking about switching the default to grub2. [15:46] Milos_SD: i dont think the final grub updating is in place yet [15:47] the update to grub2 itself occured during the package install time with some kind of transitionary stage where you have both grub1 and 2 in parallel somehow. I suspect what happens is that grub1 boots first, and is configured to load grub2, so you can check if it works and then replace grub1 entirely. However, I never looked at this too closely, finding the setup rather confusing. [15:47] thanks for answers... I will think a little more if I'm gonna upgrade now, or on september 4th [15:48] the only reason I want to upgrade is for pulseaudio 0.9.16 (there is no rtkit in Jaunty), and for Pidgin 2.6.1 audio/video support :) [15:49] Milos_SD: there's no 2.6.1 in karmic yet [15:51] jonathonf, I know, but I can compile it... karmic has version of packages that pidgin needs for audio/video support... If I compile that packages on Jaunty, I can't use totem anymore :) [15:51] hi [15:51] Karmic have* [15:51] is it possible to use ext4 with my ext3 drive? [15:51] ah ok [15:51] dodecanese: yes, just change ext3 to ext4 in /etc/fstab [15:52] ah [15:52] and should i do a fsck? [15:53] i still got some problems with the gorgs [15:53] wasn't it necessary to set some flags and then actually upgrade the filesystem? [15:54] I mean, it won't be true ext4 unless you enable ext4 features [15:54] mounting ext3 as ext4 will gain some features but without changing the filesystem, if you want to full range that you'll have to do the upgrade thingy [15:54] even ext2->3 needed construction of a journal file or something, I dimly recall. [15:55] For the record, I was one of the early people who tried to convert an ext3 to ext4 only to be bitten by N² algorithms in fsck which meant it would have taken days, possibly weeks, to finish that upgrade [15:55] upgrade thingy? [15:55] weeks?! [15:55] lol, not the best description [15:56] yes, it was a 250 GB drive and after a day it had not made much progress... Some people reported that conversions of 30 GB devices had taken hours for them, and this was not a linear relationship but a quadratic one. It's of course hard to estimate correctly, but I imagine 1-2 weeks might have been it [15:56] its 4TB [15:56] so i expect it takes at least 1 year [15:57] what kind of crackheads develope such slow algorythms for converting fs? [15:57] It was just a honest mistake... They tested with too small filesystems, I guess, so they didn't notice that. [15:58] so its faster to copy the entire content to another drive and move it back [15:59] oh yes, way faster. Not to mention it will be a proper ext4 filesystem with stuff placed as the filesystem prefers it rather than some kind of conversion where you have ext3 data layouts for old files, as I understand that the upgrade mostly concerns fixing the metadata [16:00] whatever, its better for some coders: smoke less weed [16:01] so its better to change to xfs? [16:01] no. [16:02] I mean, I've tried xfs. But its metadata performance is awful, especially deletes take forever. [16:02] and btfrs? [16:03] they should compress the metadata using lzma, to increase the performance [16:03] I have written a flash filesystem with btrfs but only played with that for a few minutes before wiping it -- I meant to try root fs on btrfs but then I noticed that grub2 can't read that fs yet [16:03] less metadata i/o [16:03] right now btrfs has no performance improvements over ext4 or xfs [16:04] I can't tell if btrfs would be any faster than ext4. I imagine that system's selling point is the advanced features, not performance. [16:04] someday travelling matt comes and tell me whats good === jon4th0n is now known as jonathonf [16:04] i hope microsoft put ntfs under gpl, that would be great [16:05] this FS Zoo is anoying [16:07] quite right. There are too many file systems, most which are worse in every respect to some other file system. [16:07] alankila: too many in general? [16:07] too many supported by the linux kernel. [16:08] okay.. i only use ext4 and fat32 (fat for usb devices) [16:08] well, at least they are modules. I suppose I don't pay for them so I don't mind, but it's a principled objection, not practical one. [16:09] fat, the worst FS [16:09] dodecanese: i meant fat32, ive never used fat [16:10] So linux has 9p, adfs, affs, fs, autofs, autofsn, befs, bfs, btrfs, cifs, coda, configfs, cramfs, dlm, efs, exofs, exportfs, fat, freevxfs, gfs2, hfs, fs+, hpfs, isofs, jffs2, jfs, minix, ncpfs, nfs, nilfs2, , ntfs, ocfs2, omfs, qnx4, reiserfs, romfs, smbfs, squashfs, ubifs, udf, ufs, xfs ... Maybe some of these aren't actual filesystems [16:10] but somehow the feeling is that a few of these could be remoed. That fs was supposed to be afs. [16:10] also tuxfs or whatever it's called was just merged [16:11] It's ridiculous that something morbidly obsolete like affs still exists in linux kernel. [16:11] . [16:12] isnt the idea of linux to be compatible with as much as possible? [16:12] as long as it isnt making it ridiculously slow (which it isnt) i dont see a problem [16:12] its just messy in the code [16:12] that is the idea of it === idleone_ is now known as IdleOne [16:12] There's a limit to how much stuff like that you really want to support. The fs kernel modules weigh 10 MB, which is not an irrelevant amount. [16:13] well now with the majority of never computers getting 500GB to 1TB i dont see a major issue [16:13] considering that the whole kernel is something like 118 MB maybe it isn't that much, but a bit of culling could bring down all sorts of costs associated with storage, install time, bandwidth. [16:13] *newer [16:13] better than what other os's have to offer in terms of size [16:14] and today you could easily move all sorts of non-bootable filesystems into FUSE only. Like amiga fast file system, a good example of useless fs if any. [16:14] vista ultimate (12GB) on fresh install, thats just a joke [16:14] vista asks for 14gb [16:14] my ultimate does 12gb on fresh install [16:14] of all the things wrong with linux, this is a minor issue [16:14] let's ignore vista and just concentrate to make linux better. It's harmful to lug all this dead code around. It takes time to maintain, space and time to install and move across systems, and is no use to anyone. [16:15] bjsnider: exactly my point [16:15] i'd say the awful state of the graphics system is the top problem at this point [16:15] caqn we pick a sound server? [16:15] can* [16:15] i think we have picked one [16:15] it's called pulseaudio [16:16] i like how it is atm (alsa with pulseaudio frontend) everything works great for me [16:16] and if you say linux is so small, then how come my linux installs are at least 3 GB, then? I'm saying that linux is pretty bloated as well, although not quite as bloated^Wfilled with useful features as Vista. [16:16] But it's an useless discussion. I regret saying it already. [16:16] at least vista's graphics system works [16:17]